JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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If SA gets any more free energy everyone will go broke

A funny thing happens when governments put “free energy” into an electricity grid. Wind turbines force down wholesale prices, but everyone’s electricity bill goes up.

Those cheap green electrons look so seductive, but the advertising hides the effect that intermittent, unstable electricity has on the whole system.

Armada Funds Management manages $400m dollars worth of South Australian shops. Look at the price shock these small business managers are dealing with, like $1200 a month, and only one employee:

Power spike hits South Australian shopping centres

The Australian, Jan 18:

Chris Monaghan, Armada’s managing director [said]…costs for purchasing electricity for shopping centres in South Australia had increased by 87 per cent during peak times last year and 101 per cent in off-peak periods. Costs would increase again this year a further 57 per cent at peak periods and 15 per cent off-peak.

The total extra cost to landlords could run into hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Nino Pilaia, who has been running Meats-N-More Carvery & Spuds …  His business was among those ­affected by power blackouts last year and ever-increasing energy costs. “For this little place here of about 30sq m, it is about $1200 a month, which is ridiculous,” Mr Pil­aia said. “The rising cost of power has hit us hard, but you can’t keep on passing on the costs to consumers — you have to try and absorb it. It’s money out of my pocket, it’s as simple as that.

“I employ one other part-time person. I can’t afford to employ anyone else… The power costs are a business killer.”

 South Australia has the highest proportion of wind power of any state without 6 interconnectors. Somehow the Premier accidentally gives the right answer:

South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill last week told ABC radio a lack of competition was to blame for high power prices, a claim rejected by the industry.

It is a lack of competition, but its not about retail competition — one more guy selling a dead dog doesn’t make it live again. What South Australians need is the right to buy whatever damn electricity they like. They need competition between generators: no RET’s, no schemes no subsidies — and may the best one win. All Jay Weatherill has to do is get out of the way, and consumers and energy companies will figure it out.

Bring it on, and watch those electricity prices plummet, and then watch big industry, shops, everyone clamour to live there.

Right now, SA “leads the nation”:

Unemployment, States of Australia, November 2016.

h/t David M

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Rating: 9.5/10 (84 votes cast)
If SA gets any more free energy everyone will go broke , 9.5 out of 10 based on 84 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/zhtzsds

148 comments to If SA gets any more free energy everyone will go broke

  • #
    Environment Skeptic

    South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill last week told ABC radio a lack of competition was to blame for high power prices, a claim rejected by the industry.

    Why not just give the unemployed solar panels?? Areas that had previously had high unemployment would suddenly be energy Mecca’s :) Tony from oz..Would it work??

    91

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      Well, it might have been by accident, but this time Jay IllWeather was right. His government shut down the competition.

      And when Hazelwood shuts and is quickly demolished so that it cannot be reopened to provide competition for its owner’s “renewable” assets, there will be even less competition, even higher prices. Not just for Victoria and South Australia, but for the whole of Australia east of the Nullabor.

      101

  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    This example shows the so called “free” energy increases cost of the energy used by 80 to over 100%. Hence the word “free” has been transmogrified into meaning “very expensive”.

    The trick the politicians try to work is to keep the public believing “free” means free of cost except for those evil fossil fuel burning capitalists extorting a profit. Thereby allowing the equivocating politicians to insist the energy would truly be free if we prohibit the burning of fossil fuel. In a way they are right, if you can’t use any energy, the cost for the energy you use is zero.

    That a substantial portion of We the People are totally ignorant of the consequences of The Three Laws of Thermodynamics allows the politicians to get away with the trick for a while. Since the consequences of the three laws is inescapable, they can’t get away with it for very long. Ultimately the trick will fail catastrophically.

    The hope of the politicians responsible for working the trick is the catastrophe won’t happen on their watch. Thereby allowing them to blame the poor sucker who follows them and to insist on doing more of the same. This has worked quite well for over three decades.

    Interestingly, a Trump card has been played in the US. The outcome is still to be determined. Clearly, the tricksters are in panic mode and can’t agree on anything but screams, denial, misrepresentation, protest, and violence. They have been out matched and out played. Their rule book has been rendered obsolete and inoperative. It’s game, set, with match point in play.

    Interesting times? Absolutely!

    331

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      “the trick is the catastrophe won’t happen on their watch.”.

      Lionell, they don’t mind whose watch the catastrophe happens on, so long as the catastrophe is complete.

      They thought they had their catastrophe in 1987, but they were outsmarted. We must hope that Trump can outsmart them this time, because I don’t see anybody else doing it unless in the space that Trump is creating.

      80

  • #
    Boyfromtottenham

    The SA Premier is either totally misinformed about how the RET works to destroy the profitability of SA’s baseload power generators, or is lying. How does he get away with this?

    261

    • #
      C. Paul Barreira

      SA is a de facto one-party state. It is, in essence, bankrupt. Actual unemployment is probably around 15 per cent. It has a self-replicating system of education at all levels, primary, secondary, tertiary—all in the service of ever more intrusive and controlling government and intolerant of dissent. Institutions pursue ever-diminishing language best likened to Newspeak. No critical media operates here. And so it goes on.

      341

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Of course he’s lying. There have been too many “once in a 100 year storms”, too many cases of incompetence, too many examples of financial waste. The closure of South Road for days because of concrete falling off a relatively new tram overpass was the last straw for many. The cartoon in The Sunday Mail had him in wet weather gear with umbrella and torch making his way over a crumbling bridge labelled Public Support. There is a small storm cloud (lightning and rain) overhead and the caption is Extreme Weatherill event.

      He will be gone as soon as the Labor Party finishes its desperate search for someone who wants to lose the coming election in early 2018. They will have to get 50% of the (2 party) vote to have any chance of returning to power, and as they only got 47% in the previous 2 elections when things were going better for them, it is unlikely that they will win. They have been there too long anyway.

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    • #
      toorightmate

      He used to knock around with Penny Wong.
      That qualifies for being as thick as ten bricks.

      172

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        When Leftists offer to “help” be wary…”helping” employment is a contradiction in terms ( base don normal, sane, logic, that is ).

        When Communists talk about “peace” – they mean the peace of the grave for those who would oppose them.

        Clearly, employment and the SA economy is targetted to be “peaceful” now….

        Nuff said.

        71

      • #
        John of Cloverdale WA

        Did they compare trousers and ties?

        31

      • #
        Hivemind

        Weatherill & Wong… very scary.

        11

    • #
      RobK

      From dialogue with a commenter on another site, it appears that SA has “nett metering” for their household solar. This means that effectively the meter runs backwards at the on-peak tarriff for power you can’t use yourself. The scheme is grossly unjust because renewable energy is sold to the grid at retail price. This means the generating and distribution companys must go broke. In the interim they can try to jack prices up to cover some loss but this leads to more solar.It means you need to have solar in SA to survive which means less conventional power and distribution is profitable, requiring prop up from tax payers. It is a cunning but evil scheme.

      161

  • #
    Geoff Sherrington

    Related, we live in Melbourne now 10 years at one home where not much has changed in our energy consumption.
    The cost to us of a domestic unit of electricity, presented quarterly on the bill, has increased at a raw 10.8% per annum since year 2006. This does not include concessions like for old people needing winter heating etc.
    Now, we are hearing official predictions that there will be increases when Hazelwood closes and from other consequences of management.
    Last time I looked for mechanisms leading to cost increases, I noted the multiple layers of management and regulatory price setters from up near COAG to the lower corporate bill sender. Each of these players is there to skim off a profit, which causes profit on profit compounding.
    But the point Jo makes is there and important. Some of those in the prices strata have forms of government backed guarantees againt losses such as by floors under which there is subsidy or refund from the people, without their say.
    This market interference is anti-competitive. That is a big problem. Another big problem is to get a reliable official figure for the national cost of anti-competition policy.
    Australia is in a set of ideological energy imposts that would be hard to invent to show greater economic stupidity. We cannot do it much worse.
    Geoff

    431

    • #
      ianl8888

      We cannot do it much worse

      No, we can’t, Geoff.

      But we can do it longer.

      Finding a circuit breaker (ha! to the pun) is beyond us at this point. Doubly irritating is that this imbroglio was delineated over and over 30 years ago as a consequence of unheeding childish policy.

      Apart from moving interstate or overseas, what choice is the SA populace being offered ? And still they vote for this nonsense – now including all States and the ACT.

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        I’d recommend another McCarthy style push to remove all communist sympathizers from within Australia.

        Before people howl me down, McCarthy advocated stopping people deemed communist or sympathizers to be stopped holding positions of power.

        Follow that approach, and you’d empty the ABC, most of the “independent” newspapers editorial staff, most union officials and most of the labor party.

        I cant see a down side. Thinsg are getting dire, perhaps with Trump thundering away across the pond, such a thing might be entertained again – we have a new Cold War world wide – the Leftists vs the People.

        60

        • #
          James

          Trump is defunding the equivalent of the ABC, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, and is going to sell it. This is a great move. Watch out ABC, other countries tend to follow the US lead. The National Endowment for the Art, and National Endowment of the Humanities will be eliminate.

          All these organizations were against Trump. I guess the correct saying is do not bite the hand that will soon be feeding you!

          60

    • #
      Mikky

      Its a worldwide problem in the developed (decadent) world, Canada is probably the leader, despite a low energy price and corporate tax USA under Trump, about to take many of their jobs, they continue to amaze:

      http://business.financialpost.com/fp-comment/terence-corcoran-trudeaus-liberals-just-got-struck-by-the-first-shot-in-canadas-carbon-tax-rebellion

      30

  • #

    Dan the Man from Victoristan is doing his best to outdo SA. It’s a Labor Party competition to see who can screw the country to the greatest extent.

    352

    • #
      Robert Rosicka

      Ahh yes the race between our glorious leaders to turn their states into the republic of Dumbfukistan !

      162

  • #

    OT, but here’s a very disturbing article: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-23/scientists-develop-fake-news-vaccine/8205812.

    The spread of fake news online has led scientists to develop a “vaccine” to inoculate the public against climate change myths.

    151

    • #
      Mark M

      LOL.

      My favourite is 97% John Cook’s “How to inoculate people against Donald Trump’s fact bending claims” from his cheer squad @theconversation.
      https://theconversation.com/how-to-inoculate-people-against-donald-trumps-fact-bending-claims-56489

      “Psychological research on science denial provides a model for how to reduce Trump’s influence on the general populace: inoculation theory.

      This uses the metaphor of vaccination.

      The acronym FLICC is an easy way to remember these techniques.”
      . . .
      So, how did that work out from John Cook, the master communicator?

      Snuffle, snort, mmmph … Bwahaha ha ha ha!

      So much winning.

      71

    • #
      AndyG55

      ” a “vaccine” to inoculate the public against climate change myths”

      What!… Has someone finally decided to close down the ABC !!!

      212

    • #
      gbees

      sounds like another approach to brainwashing by the purveyors of the study.

      111

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      It really is worth reading that study.
      http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/wol1/doi/10.1002/gch2.201600008/full

      It’s got all the trigger words; “97% of climate scientists”, “motivated cognition”, “In a complex and uncertain world, people often look to experts for guidance” + “particularly because doing so is often socially adaptive, as “consensus implies correctness.”[28] In fact, people prefer to take cues from the combined judgment of multiple experts.[29] As such, adopting consensus beliefs can improve judgment-accuracy and reduce the cost of learning by condensing complex science into a simple fact.”

      You heard it here first folks, or there at least.

      Yes Sir, if everybody agrees, it’s got to be true. I sure with they’d apply this thinking to God, surely 2.5 billion Catholics can’t be wrong?

      91

  • #
    Mark M

    January 15, 2017: “It may be those sorts of events that might precipitate that discussion,” Weatherill told Fairfax.

    The events included a massive September storm that spawned at least seven tornadoes and knocked out a key transmission line, triggering a “system black” power outage for all of SA.

    http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/early-skirmishes-point-to-a-war-over-renewable-energy-lasting-well-into-2017-20170111-gtpsd9.html
    ~ ~ ~
    jan 19: Storm wreaks havoc in west, blacks out parts of Adelaide
    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/storm-wreaks-havoc-in-west-blacks-out-parts-of-adelaide/news-story/05f545a72be05a0c9446ea300f8419b1
    . . .
    How much renewable energy must South Australia install before South Australia prevents it’s first extreme weather event/storm?

    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/storm-wreaks-havoc-in-west-blacks-out-parts-of-south-australia/news-story/97b0943e53d57514b86b4902c63df1e5

    91

  • #
    AndyG55

    OT Just for fun, for the Arctic worriers. ;-)

    Current extent in NSIDC, Day 21 2016 is ABOVE the extent on day 21, 2006.

    102

  • #
    TdeF

    It may not have occurred to many, but easily the fastest way to increase the % of wind power is to switch off everything else. You can achieve 100% in a day.

    So just take the nameplate output, pretend that the wind is constant and the perfect speed and blow up your coal power stations. Job done, election won, planet saved. A hero.

    Then if you need real power in a storm or on a very hot day or because something broke or there is just no wind, import it from somewhere else. If you cannot get power or it is super expensive, blame the capitalist energy market operators who do not plan for contingencies.

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    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      How does an accurate description of the facts get to be sarcasm?

      101

    • #
      Hivemind

      “… switch off everything else”

      I think you have identified the way that Labor is thinking. The Greens, on the other hand, never think; they just emote.

      61

  • #
    PeterS

    Meanwhile more and more countries elsewhere are building new generation coal fired power stations. Ultra-supercritical coal fired power stations are underway in other places and we should be upgrading our existing ones to match instead of wasting so much of our money on renewables, which we all know are not suitable for secure base load power.

    191

  • #
    Analitik

    An interesting article by StopTheseThings, analysing Turnbull’s recent statements about clean, supercritical coal plants. He still supports the CO2 reduction targets, though, by attacking Tony Abbott’s recent calls to scrap them indicating his continuing acceptance of the CAGW myth.

    It also discusses how the RECs allow the wind farms to drive the market price down to zero while still making money and (may favorite scam) the priority market access that they receive as “semi-scheduled” generators that allows them to generate whenever they want unless network stability requires curtailing.

    Well worth reading
    https://stopthesethings.com/2017/01/23/turnbulls-reliable-power-play-australian-pm-pushes-coal-fired-future/comment-page-1/#comment-433031

    90

  • #
    John F. Hultquist

    Perhaps you should reduce the pay of elected and all agency folks to the point they begin to notice the cost of things. Electricity price is not at the top of things to worry about by those getting a nice cut of your money.

    111

  • #
    Mark M

    UPDATED: A combination of human error and entrenched systemic failure has been blamed for the failure of backup generators at Flinders and Port Augusta hospitals during September’s statewide blackout, while a broader review of the emergency response warns against “ad-hoc and inconsistent” response protocols, recommending sweeping changes.

    The Port Augusta failure – which left that hospital without any power at all for more than five hours …
    . . .
    They could surround the hospitals in wind turbines and solar panels incase it happens again.

    If you had the choice for your operation to be in fossil-fuel powered hospital, or a renewable powered hospital on a windless, cloudy day, which would you choose?

    171

    • #
    • #
      OrignalSteve

      People get complacent about testing generators …until they are needed….

      Seems to be a common problem.

      Until labor is routed from every office in the land McCarthy style, we will have the Left trying to destroy capitalism in this country and with it our standard of living to pursue the great grey wasteland of communism…..

      Having visited the old east berlin in the early 2000s, it was apparent that soviet era life was pretty awful. Yet this is what these leftist wreckers yearn for.

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      • #
        Annie

        We visited East Berlin back in the mid-seventies…very grim and depressing indeed. We also went to the museum at Checkpoint Charlie. The lengths people went to to get away from the socialist ‘paradise’ were unbelievable.

        91

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Yes, funny that….

          My uncle escaped from communist Hungary and can tell you some stories about how grindingly bad life under communism is.

          I think the starry eyed champagne leftists who have always had mobile phones, 50 channels of tv and a warm house of course wouldnt know what its like…..

          82

  • #
    Robdel

    How about making the salaries of politicians inversely related to energy costs?

    110

    • #
      graphicconception

      How about making the salaries of politicians inversely related to energy costs?

      Ha, you beat me to it!

      However, it would not work. They would just re-define what an energy cost is. It would either be based on some sort of energy the average person could not buy or the price would exclude certain charges like, for instance, its “social cost”, or its “energy surtax”, or its “distribution cost”, or etc etc …

      90

  • #

    Slightly OT again, but this could prove bad news for SA windless mills: http://scitechdaily.com/mit-study-predicts-frequency-of-heavy-precipitation-with-global-warming/.

    Where’s Tim Flannery when you need him to give us solace?

    100

  • #
    TdeF

    The only reason to put in new boilers is greatly improved efficiency. It is good reason and reduces the cost to the operator. If CO2 is reduced dramatically as indicated by the Australian article and of course the chemistry is identical, it means they use far less coal and that makes our reserves last longer and our running costs far lower, including Government taxes which just increased 300%.

    However the Australian article talks about reducing ‘CO2 Pollution’ a ridiculous phrase used by all sides of politics now. Firstly it is not pollution and secondly, the people of China breathe out more CO2 than we generate. This is the new population, not the 1900 population.

    Of course there is no point investing in Hazelwood if for every 1Mwhr sold you have to pay $90 to buy an LGC, regardless of the amount of CO2 produced in obtaining that 1Mwhr!

    170

    • #
      bobl

      That’s easy, don’t buy the LGC. It is time that ALL fossil generators just boycotted, the RET. If the government attacks, go on a management strike.. shut down. Nothing the government could do, RET gone in a day. I say just have a management protest, shut all fossil gensets down for 1 week, at a time of low wind.

      Seems to work for the unions whenever they want a pay rise.

      161

      • #
        bobl

        Bonus is that the politicians get to live on their wonderful free renewable electricity for a week, experience the joys of total unpredictability – give them what they want!

        141

    • #
      Analitik

      What new boilers?

      31

  • #
    pat

    23 Jan: AtlkantaJournalConstitution blog: CDC cancels next month’s ‘climate and health’ summit in Atlanta
    by Greg Bluestein and Jim Galloway
    According to Climatewire, an E&E News publication, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control “quietly and abruptly” canceled a major climate-change gathering scheduled for next month (LINK). The action was taken shortly after Donald Trump’s election as president in November, but is only now coming to light. From the newsletter (LINK): …

    “The summit involved months of preparation and had solicited research papers. The theme would have been on the “state of the science on climate and health, adaptation efforts through interagency collaboration, and communication and stakeholder engagement strategies,” according to a flier….It would have positioned climate change as a central issue for CDC, with a political rival of Trump as a keynote speaker…

    The speaker wasn’t identified. Dr. Thomas Frieden, head of the CDC, resigned effective last Friday. He had been appointed by President Barack Obama eight years ago…READ ON
    http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2017/01/23/cdc-cancels-next-months-climate-and-health-summit-in-atlanta/

    81

  • #
    Ruairi

    Consumers are forced to dig deep,
    In S.A. where the power ‘s not cheap,
    Due to weak politicians,
    Obsessed with emissions,
    Who follow the warmists like sheep.

    231

  • #
    Dennis

    I am still looking out for green electricity

    61

  • #
    Gordon

    If it is free, why does it cost? I want free energy like zero point!!!!

    71

  • #
    Dennis

    If it is renewable then how do I renew it?

    61

  • #
    el gordo

    Territorians and the inhabitants of the ACT live in sheltered workshops, which explains the low unemployment rate.

    91

    • #
      OrignalSteve

      They also have these huge solar farms which apaprently generate a lot of Leftist “feel good” energy, but hasnt lowered energy costs of the residents, despite costing millions to build…..

      Nuff said.

      72

      • #
        Dennis

        Don’t forget the windmills on the hills ….

        51

      • #
        Hivemind

        The thing about virtue signalling, is that it has to be visible. What could be more visible than to take land that was allocated to housing and instead install a whole bunch of solar. There are plenty of places out of the way to install it, but no. The Greens that run the government want it to be in the centre of suburbia.

        I don’t think I have seen a single wind turbine in the ACT. Anywhere. Yes, I know there is a little token windmill (perhaps 20 watts capacity) outside the Kippax community centre. It works at two speeds: 0 (for 95% of the time) & spinning like mad (for 5% of the time).

        Crazy Green virtue signalling.

        51

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          From what I’ve read about ACT politics, it seems any drovers dog can get a run in parliament…which might explain a few things?

          The ACT gummint decided to build a $1,000,000,000 tram system in the ACT.

          And its all to run on green power. I guess n cloudy days you might not get to work. But its ironic – the ACT doesn’t really generate much of its own power, so all green power has to come from out of state, which kind of makes the whole thing a bit of a joke….seriously, you can make this stuff up…..

          #TramFail

          50

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Rotten auto correct…..

            Should read “seriously, you cant make this stuff up…”

            30

          • #
            AndyG55

            You have it wrong.. The ACT will use “wind” power from wind turbines hundreds of KM outside its borders. There will be no wind turbines anywhere in the ACT, you can bet your boots on that. (maybe they will build a ceremonial one or two somewhere out of sight)

            Everyone else who is “green” will also claim to be using that wind power at the same time, despite the fact that it is but a tiny, tiny percentage of the supply from the NSW coal-fired (with some minor hydro) electricity grid.

            30

  • #
    Another Ian

    Fits here in a round about way IMO

    Numbers vs percentages

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2017/01/23/0-00154-of-usa-cranky-in-d-c/

    61

  • #
    David Maddison

    I heard yesterday that during the SA grid failure 50 frozen embryos in one of the hospitals thawed and effectively died.

    51

  • #
    Bulldust

    O/Topic:

    Ding! Dong! The wicked TPP is dead:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-24/trump-withdraws-from-tpp/8206356

    Despite criticising the TPP extensively in previous articles, there is zero ABC praise for Trump canning the failed agreement.

    Don’t get me wrong… free trade is great in principle, but the TPP was far from being a simple free trade document.

    191

    • #
      Dennis

      The TPP was originally intended to be an agreement covering all free trade agreements between nations participating, in other words each FTA would be between two nations and the TPP would set out the rules aiming at achieving a level playing field of regulations and laws covering imports and exports in all trading nations that signed the TPP. Opponents argued that it was a secret agreement and therefore must be bad. But the negotiating took place behind closed doors but when the heads of agreement was prepared it was circulated to MPs in parliaments preparing the groundwork for legislation in each nation to be voted on. So it became a public document. It should be obvious that when sensitive matters are discussed it is not wise to do it in public, for many reasons and purposes.

      I understand that POTUS Trump is concerned about clauses inserted into the TPP by POTUS Obama’s regime that, apparently, are UN friendly.

      However Trump is prepared to have FTAs with various friendly nations.

      91

      • #
        Bulldust

        I think that referring to the TPP as “a document” is more than a tad misleading. Here’s the list of downloads for the TPP and associated documents (just eye-balling there are of the order of one hundred plus documents on that site):

        http://dfat.gov.au/trade/agreements/tpp/official-documents/Pages/official-documents.aspx

        No one rational would argue the case that it was bad because it was written in secret. One would be highly suspicious, however, of a document that was crafted largely at the behest of major corporations and away from public scrutiny. No one is naïve enough to accept that massive multi-national corporations are acting strictly in the interests of the people of any given country, let alone a smallish one like Australia.

        71

        • #
          Geoff Sherrington

          Bulldust and Dennis,
          Conceptually the proposal to form the TPP reminds me of the act of forming the European Union, a globalisation step that we now know failed with tears.
          This type of one world order has a fundamental handicap because it attracts non-productive drones around the honey pot, thus displacing the private enterprise working bees with whom resides most practicality hence chance of success.
          As one who worked in major industry here, at a level able to influence national political decisions, my view is that freedom for corporations to act is more important than blind assumptions that corporations are evil and not to be trusted.
          FFS, altruism is rife in corporations because they house people with simple thoughts and motives, uninterested in playing devious, time wasting games of intrigue. You would be gobsmacked to work at top corporate level to note, among other things, the funds quietly volunteered to genuine charities that help people in need.
          I’m sorry you have a jaundiced view but if you have no first hand, then you really should not volunteer bitter comments like these.
          Yes I am naive enough.
          As for keeping matters secret for “good reasons”, how does this match up with the requirements of offices representing the wishes of the people, democracy?
          Geoff

          20

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            “This type of one world order has a fundamental handicap because it attracts non-productive drones around the honey pot, thus displacing the private enterprise working bees with whom resides most practicality hence chance of success.”

            Correct – they are called Socialists, who replace productivity with the proven failure of Socialism.

            Leftists are not right in the head – Socialism doesn’t work, they know this, yet they keep trying. The definition of insanity is trying the same failing stuff over and over hoping it will work.

            Ergo, it would seem Socialists are insane.

            40

    • #
  • #

    The Posh Left have learned to preach loudest in favour of “markets” and “competition”. Who needs collectivisation and five year plans when you can twist “markets” and rig “competition” to bring on the same disasters?

    101

  • #
    el gordo

    New paper by Li et al confirms what we have been saying for a long time.

    “We suggest that solar activity may play a key role in driving the climatic fluctuations in NC [North China] during the last 22 centuries, with its quasi ∼100, 50, 23, or 22-year periodicity clearly identified in our climatic reconstructions. … It has been widely suggested from both climate modeling and observation data that solar activity plays a key role in driving late Holocene climatic fluctuations by triggering global temperature variability and atmospheric dynamical circulation .”

    - See more at: http://notrickszone.com/2017/01/23/new-paper-14-scientists-affirm-solar-forcing-not-co2-is-dominant-control-for-modern-climate-change/#sthash.3EIxXvvy.dpuf

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    Speedy

    The evidence is there for all to see. The “science” is phoney, the politics are anti-social, and the economics are disastrous.
    Why do our “leaders” follow this path? Which leads me to wonder are they lemmings – or liars?

    Cheers,

    Speedy

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      John Michelmore

      Emergency Services Levies (ESL) in SA have been climbing thru the roof, no wonder people call for help when they don’t really need it; they want something for their money!! This ESL system has become a massive slush fund being abused by most, and in particular bureaucracy!!
      Realistic expectations have now become, because you must become more self reliant. Make sure you have the following in case of disaster on top of what you might have in place for bushfires:-
      1) back up drinking water supply.
      2) back up lighting, a torch might do.
      3) back up power generation (that will work especially if you rent a flat in a big block!)
      4) back up power for your phone or mobile.
      5) back up oxygen if your on a respirator.
      6) review you bushfire plan to include all disasters.
      7) make sure you have plan to cope with all disasters.
      8) emergency food rations.

      I want my levy back please to pay for all this and more.
      What we have in place in SA is not working!!
      Why are we paying electricity supply charges for something that is now totally unreliable

      Plus if you live in the Adelaide CBD, be prepared to evacuate because of lack of power!!!?????

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        John Michelmore

        I thought Doomsday Prepping was a bit far fetched, obviously I am wrong, the SA Gov want us to be prepared for doomsday!!

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    crakar24

    Here in SA my off peak went from 10C to 15C/KW (J tarrif for HWS), its becoming very expensive to boil water overnight.

    Bottled gas is now more economical, this fact alone stands as a testament to the idiocracy of this state.

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    Wally

    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opinion/bruce-dinham-how-to-slash-south-australias-electricity-bills/news-story/f87ff12815e56f834723a03701675c15

    Interesting how a former GM of ETSA tells how SA used to have the cheapest power in the country. And that came about by burning dirt at the Northern Power station (now closed!)

    These plonkers really have stuffed things up. I’m referring to our glorious pollies.

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    Robdel

    There is no such thing as free useful energy. Look up the second law of thermodynamics. Entropy always increases, as least for closed systems on earth.

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    TdeF

    I wonder about why we in Victoria sold Hazelwood for $2.5Billion in 1996 and then legislated to make it financially worthless? No one was worried about sovereign risk. Now apparently we cannot break the Paris agreement because of Sovereign risk?

    The problem for the French owners is that even if they invested in new and more efficient super duper boilers (everything else can stay the same including the mines, the coal, the storage, the people,..) they would still be burdened by $90 per MwHr, 9c per kwhr if someone wanted to buy the output from evil coal. So producing less CO2 per kwhr is irrelevant financially and there is no incentive. The RET is designed to kill coal and gas, not reduce CO2 output.

    Industrialization is the problem and we should all go back to the brutal 18th century. Coal is the problem. Rotted plant matter is just not Green. Anymore.

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      ianl8888

      No one was worried about sovereign risk

      Untrue, I’m afraid. The various probable purchasers and would-might-be purchasers were indeed informed of the obvious sovereign risks. A combination of assurances from the then State Govt and marketing zealotry overcame this fear, much to our unease (the “our” here refers to those of us then acting as independent technical advisers).

      At the root of our unease was, and still is, the uncomfortable fact that State entities in Aus do NOT have written Constitutions. In practice this means that a State Govt can change its’ mind and have as the only visible consequence a possible loss of votes and power at the next election. Perhaps the most recent example is the incoming Vic Govt reneging on the East-West link at the cost of $1bn in taxpayer funds. What odds that this reckless vandalism will even be remembered at the next election ?

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    David Maddison

    It worries me that with the huge changes about to happen for the better in America, Australia will be left behind because our government is moving in the opposite direction, eg more commitment to the Climate Change hoax (which has given us some of the most expensive electricity in the world), more importation of people who want to kill us, more commitment to the surveillance and Nanny State etc., ever increasing debt, ever increasing government incompetence, more and more arrogance and corruption by politicians etc. We will end up more like Europe, not the US who we are normally closer to.

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    pat

    Warning: “experts” on the loose:

    23 Jan: GizmodoAustralia: Rae Johnston: Experts Speak Out: To Stop South Australian Blackouts, We Need To Encourage Renewables
    A meterologist, a climate science professor and the Deputy Director of the Monash Energy Materials and Systems Institute gave us their insights on the recent “unusual” tropical weather patterns appearing in South Australia, what exactly is causing the continual blackouts, and how renewables can help…

    Matt Collopy, Supervising Meteorologist for South Australia, Bureau of Meteorology gives us a rundown on what happened…
    Dr Ariel Liebman, Deputy Director of the Monash Energy Materials and Systems Institute at Monash University says renewable energy is not to blame…
    Ian Lowe, Emeritus professor of science, technology and society, Griffith University, former President of the Australian Conservation Foundation says what has been predicted, is happening now…
    http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/01/experts-speak-out-to-stop-south-australian-blackouts-we-need-to-encourage-renewables/

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    TdeF

    In the Australian on page 6, some very disturbing numbers from Rowan Callick, either wrong or at least massively misleading.
    Feel free to check my simple calculations

    Compare a Shanghai coal plant with Yallourn

    Shanghai
    “Two 1000 Megawatt units”
    2x 1GW 1.9million tons of carbon dioxide at 46.5%*

    against

    Yallourn
    “Four subcritical boilers produce 1450megawatts.”
    Yallourn 1.45GW 14.6 million tons at 28%*.
    *measuring how much of the energy in the coal ends up as electricity.

    Who can argue with that? 7 as much CO2! A crime against humanity.

    Now that’s not possible. The missing word on the end of 1450megawatts is each.

    Reading again against
    2 x 1000MW or 2GW means 1.9 million tons or .95million tons of CO2 per GW
    against
    4 x 1450MW so 5.8Gw means 14.6 million tons or 2.51 million tons of CO2 per GW

    Now it is only 2.6x less CO2 but still amazing. from the same coal?

    Clearly these new super critical boilers break the rules of thermodynamics as well as mathematics.

    I can only think when they say coal, they mean very wet lignite, counting the weight of the 66% water which is quickly evaporated
    at little cost. Water is NOT coal but .4*2.54=1 and everything adds up so it looks like in China they are counting the weight of (dry) coal and in Yallourn the figures include the water which is 2/3 of the weight. This is a Green mantra that wet coal produces twice as much CO2 as dry coal. They are wrong.

    The figures on the internet indicate a supercritical boiler could reduce CO2 output by only 28%.
    These do not correspond to 46.5% and 28% efficiencies at all. The second figure should be 33.5% by world standards, so maybe a typo?

    Then black coal reduces CO2 by a further 6%.

    Both come at a high cost which is why we are using our plentiful open cut mined brown coal. The Greens would send men down the mines while they holiday at their beach houses with the airconditioners on.

    As expected, having killed Hazelwood, the attack has now turned to the remaining brown coal plants at Yallourn.
    Close them all is the cry! Keep the coal in the ground! Save the planet.
    Bring in the windmills.

    I think Rowan Callick needs to check his sources. This is a deceitful attack on our remaining brown coal plants.
    We will have to import power from South Australia.

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    • #
      Dennis

      The interconnector – what goes around comes around?

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      TdeF

      Actually when you consider the statements in plain English

      Two 1000 Megawatt units produce 1.9 million tons of CO2
      where Four subcritical boilers produce 1450megawatts. 14.6 million tons of CO2

      so the supercritical super fantastic boilers produce .85 MT/GW against 10MT/GW, nearly 12x less CO2.

      A super amazing 92% reduction in CO2 from the same coal! Isn’t technology wonderful. So much for chemistry.

      but that is just the impression the article appears to give. The word ‘each’ is clearly missing and a few more
      clarifications are needed. This appears to be straight propaganda.

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      • #
        TdeF

        I cannot resist quoting the absurd opening paragraph of the article

        “The head of Shanghai’s ‘cleanest coal-fired power station in the world” believe pollution from such generation would be almost negligible if all power units were renovated to its standard”

        Firstly, he cannot be talking about CO2 at all.

        Real air pollution is a big problem in China, partly because of the climate in winter and the Shanghai thick fog in summer. Our power stations are incredibly clean and far away. The inner city power stations like Spencer street closed half a century ago. Newport burns gas.

        For CO2 output to be less is impossible. That defies the rules of thermodynamics and chemistry. Higher temperature means more efficient conversion of heat to mechanical energy but you cannot extract more energy heat per ton and you cannot stop coal turning to CO2. According to Carnot’s law of engines, the higher the temperature, the more efficient the conversion but you cannot get energy from not burning coal.

        This is a problem for a journalist when presented with a report like this. I still rail at the missing word ‘each’.

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        • #
          TdeF

          Again, he is talking about ‘renovated’, not closed down. If we are going to listen to Chinese experts on pollution, we should actually listen. There is nothing old about our power plants or bridges or buildings, but renovation makes sense. The steel framed BHP building in William Street was built in 1972, now 45 years ago. It does not need to be knocked down. Nor the Westgate bridge, now 40 years old and not the Sydney Harbour Bridge, now 85 years old. Nor does Hazelwood.

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      Analitik

      Umm, no.
      Yallourn has 4 boilers each driving generator units that total to 1480 (or 1450) MW
      https://www.energyaustralia.com.au/about-us/what-we-do/generation-assets/yallourn-power-station

      The article is correct – Yallourn is an old station of Hazelwood vintage hence the low thermal efficiency

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      • #
        TdeF

        You used the word ‘each’.

        The word each is missing from the article. So is any talk about brown coal vs black coal. That increases CO2 x 10 without any difference in efficiency.

        The article also equates ‘pollution’ with CO2, when that is not what is meant.

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        • #
          Analitik

          Where the “each” lies makes a considerable difference, along with the word “totals”.

          Yallourn has 4 boilers each driving generator units that total to 1480 (or 1450) MW

          Brown coal has lower efficiency than bloack coal due to the much higher water content so yes, the article is misleading on that point but your 5.8 GW is totally off the mark

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        TdeF

        Also if Hazelwood at 1600Mw is closed and that is 25% of our power
        and then the move is to close Yallourn at 1480Mw, another 23%
        We will have doubled our % of ‘renewables’ overnight and halved Victoria’s power.
        It will join South Australia as The Disaster State.
        The biggest customer for our power is NSW, so they will suffer too, along with South Australia and Tasmania
        who will be cut off.

        The people who hate brown coal will have shut down Victoria, South Australia, Tasmania and crippled NSW.
        No one will start mining black coal. The RET tax is the same, as it is for Natural Gas and we are not allowed build new dams,
        even if we had the water.

        This is a disaster. All presented as reasonable even in the Australian
        and I have no idea how anyone anywhere benefits from this, except perhaps the Windmill companies.

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        • #
          bobl

          I say shut them all down, every fossil fuel generator in the state, give Dopey Dan the clear renewable energy he wants – No fossil power from interconnects either. Then we can wait for the screams from the population, the quick removal from office of Dopey Dan the climate crusader and a return to some kind of sanity in Victoria.

          PS to All fossil fuel generators all of you, don’t buy the LGCs, make them prosecute you, claim bankruptcy protection and shut down.

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    • #
      Analitik

      Umm, no.
      Yallourn has 4 boilers each driving generator units that total to 1480 (or 1450) MW
      https://www.energyaustralia.com.au/about-us/what-we-do/generation-assets/yallourn-power-station

      The article is correct – Yallourn is an old station of Hazelwood vintage hence the low thermal efficiency

      10

      • #
        TdeF

        As above. So please explain how the new technology for the same amount of CO2 produces 12x as much energy. That redefines low efficiency, especially considering the quoted rates are 46.5% and 28%. *measuring how much of the energy in the coal ends up as electricity.

        Say for example the efficiencies differed by as much as 46% vs 23%. You would get 2x as much CO2 for the same amount of electricity. That means twice as much coal. That means twice as much CO2. So why is the CO2 different x 5? (14.6 for 1450 and 1.9 for 1000)

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      • #
        TdeF

        Actually the x4 from ‘each’ was the only way I could even begin to reconcile 14.6 million tons of CO2 against only 1.9 million tons CO2. Now I cannot. That is 7x as much coal for 7x as much CO2 for 45% more power.

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        • #
          TdeF

          The article itself quotes the efficiency at 28%.

          MIT results
          Boiler Type Efficiency Rating
          Subcritical 32–38%
          Supercritical 37–42%
          Ultra-supercritical 42–45%

          The original article is here

          The CO2 figure is the one which makes no sense.

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          • #
            bobl

            Yes it’s wrong
            Thermal Coal = 25 MJ/kg or 6944 Watt hours per kg. so For 2E9 Wh (2GWh) that’s 288000 kg (288T) Carbon per hour or 1056 T CO2. That’s 9,250,560 Tonnes CO2 or 2,522,880 tonnes C Per Annum at 100% efficiency. This implies that Shanghai is 480% efficient.

            Someone has their math wrong! If Shanghai operates 24×7 their emission will be approximately 22 MTPA or 11MTPA per GW not 1.9MTPA. The Yallourn numbers are also low but not as low as Shanghai at 28% emission will be around 1.4/2 * 9250560/.28 = 23 MTPA (remembering that Yallourn is only 1.4 GW) which gives around 16.4 MTPA per GW

            My View
            The Yallourn sidebar is right but the emission is PER GW

            The Shanghai sidebar is grossly wrong and probably doesn’t have the same period it is MOST likely MT for the total (2GW) PER MONTH.

            So the claim of 1.9 MTPA is WRONG and the claim for Yallourn is per GW not for the plant.

            I have left a comment on the Australian website outlining the error

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    Analitik

    The AEMO seems to be sliding down the progressive, renewables path with it’s latest appointment of Audrey Zibelman to the role of CEO.

    Statement by AEMO Chairman, Dr Anthony (Tony) Marxsen:

    Audrey’s vast experience in creating and managing new wholesale electricity markets, and transforming existing energy markets and large power systems will further strengthen the work that AEMO has undertaken to support Australia’s energy industry transformation

    https://www.aemo.com.au/Media-Centre/AEMO-appoints-new-Chief-Executive-Officer-Ms-Audrey-Zibelman

    Ms Zibelman has extensive international experience in the public, private and not-for profit energy sectors, most recently having held the position of Chair of the New York State Public Service Commission (NYPSC), where she was responsible for overseeing the regulation and safety of New York’s electricity, gas, telephone, cable, water and steam utilities.

    During Ms Zibelman’s leadership at the NYPSC, New York Governor Andrew M. Cuomo enacted the ‘Reforming the Energy Vision’ (REV) plan.

    and

    Ms Zibelman holds an Executive MBA from the Carlson School of Management and a Bachelor of Arts from Pennsylvania State University and a JD/LLD-Doctor of Jurisprudence (Law) degree from Hamline University School of Law.

    Reforming the Energy Vision – http://www3.dps.ny.gov/W/PSCWeb.nsf/All/CC4F2EFA3A23551585257DEA007DCFE2?OpenDocument

    The REV initiative will lead to regulatory changes that promote more efficient use of energy, deeper penetration of renewable energy resources such as wind and solar, wider deployment of “distributed” energy resources, such as micro grids, roof-top solar and other on-site power supplies, and storage. It will also promote markets to achieve greater use of advanced energy management products to enhance demand elasticity and efficiencies.

    WTF is going on? Why are our institutions taking on people that Trump would throw out?
    What’s next? The BoM hiring Michael Mann and the CSIRO taking on Gavin Schmidt???

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    pat

    speaking of AEMO:

    20 Jan: ABC: Nick Harmsen: SA blackout: Planned increase in power importation put on hold amid ‘potential stability issue’
    The Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) had been conducting final tests to gradually increase capacity on the newly upgraded Heywood Interconnector from 460 megawatts to 650 megawatts.
    But in a notice to the electricity market, AEMO said its analysis of the September 28 blackout identified a “potential stability issue” when high power imports coincide with high levels of wind generation.
    The market operator is now reviewing transfer limits across the interconnector, and in the interim will limit flows from Victoria to SA to a maximum of 600 megawatts.
    Exports to Victoria via the interconnector will be limited to a maximum of 500 megawatts…READ ON
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-20/blackout-investigation-puts-power-import-plan-on-hold/8195394

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    pat

    24 Jan: IrishNews: Gareth McKeown: ‘Unacceptable’ that renewable energy charity did not relay RHI (Renewable Heat Incentive) concerns
    A former deputy director of a renewable energy charity paid to process a quarter of the north’s RHI applications has said it is “utterly unacceptable” concerns were not raised about the flawed scheme.
    Declan Gormley served as deputy director at Action Renewables from 2003 to 2012 and described the organisation’s actions as “indefensible”.
    The Irish News revealed last week how between May 2014 and January 2016, Action Renewables advised on around 550 applications to the botched Renewable Heat Incentive scheme and made close to quarter of a million pounds for doing so, typically charging £400 each time.

    The successful applicants account for roughly £300m in taxpayer subsidies committed over a 20-year period.
    When asked by The Irish News why no-one within the charity relayed concerns about the operation of the scheme to the government, managing director Michael Doran said it would have been “ethically improper”.
    “That’s not what we were employed to do. If you’re employed on behalf of a client to make an application it would then be ethically improper to then undermine that application by trying to have it withdrawn,” he said.

    “The fact that the government created the scheme that some people now think is over incentivised is not our responsibility.”
    Mr Gormley said the response was “unacceptable”…READ ALL
    http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2017/01/24/news/-unacceptable-that-renewable-energy-charity-did-not-relay-rhi-concerns-902212/

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    pat

    23 Jan: ClayCenterDispatch: AP: Renewable energy fund gets critical look
    Republican state lawmakers are considering killing a solar incentive and taking control of an energy fund they say has little oversight.
    The bill would shift money deposited into a renewable energy account to a general energy fund and end the “Made in Minnesota” solar energy incentive program. GOP lawmakers want more legislative oversight of the state’s energy funds and pointed toward the low energy production from the solar incentive at a Monday Ways and Means committee meeting as a sign of the energy program’s failure. The bill continues an early trend in the session of Republican lawmakers seeking to rein in spending with tighter legislative control. Still, House Democrats said they see the bill as a shift away from a commitment to alternative energy sources that would result in the loss of almost 500 jobs in the state…

    Rep. Marion O’Neill of Maple Lake, the author of the bill, said the renewable energy fund has little oversight and questioned why the account is controlled by a private company, Xcel Energy, instead of a state body. Often, the legislature’s job is to fix issues that arise from past decisions, she said, calling this bill “a course correction.”
    Rep. Pat Garofalo called the solar incentive program “an embarrassment to the state” and said the legislature should have control of the renewable energy fund. He referenced a review done by the Office of Legislative Auditor suggesting that more oversight of the fund was needed to increase accountability…

    Rep. Jean Wagenius, a Minneapolis Democrat, said changing the renewable energy fund to a general energy fund breaks a “twenty-year-old agreement” between the state and Xcel Energy to provide alternative energy sources. “By taking away the renewable name, it is a fund without a ***moral obligation,” she said.
    Groups previously chosen for the “Made in Minnesota” incentive would still get rebates for the rest of their ten year contract under the new bill, which passed through committee Monday and is now awaiting a vote in the House.
    http://www.ccenterdispatch.com/news/state/article_b6568e4e-a209-5ea4-93d2-e4f80a8a52ad.html

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    pat

    South African piece worth reading:

    23 Jan: CreamerMedia: EngineeringNews: Opinion: South Africa at an electricity crossroads
    In this commentary, independent economic consultant Rob Jeffrey cautions that a future electricity mix which relies heavily on wind and limits the contribution of coal could undermine South Africa’s plans for addressing unemployment and poverty…
    The cost of virtually destroying the coal mining industry and its associated exports could, by 2050, reduce the GDP by 3% or more, and increase unemployment by more than 150 000…
    These facts are not mentioned by those vested financial and idealistic interests favouring renewables. In fact, they are studiously and deliberately avoided…

    Firstly, ‘energiewende’, the German policy to eliminate nuclear- and coal-based electricity and make the country virtually completely dependent on renewables, primarily wind, is now considered to be a total failure. Germany has put a cap on further wind development and has withdrawn all subsidies associated with wind. Electricity prices in Germany and Denmark are now more than 65% higher than nuclear France and the highest in Europe…
    The impact of the current cold winter is considered by many to be the final nail in the coffin for energiewende.

    South Australia is another spectacular example of the failure of the policy of increasing wind based electricity. The prices of electricity in South Australia have increased significantly and are approximately 50% higher than in coal dependent Queensland…

    ***It is not surprising under these circumstances that German wind energy manufacturers are targeting new markets, particularly in Africa and South Africa…

    Finally, it has been disturbing to watch the debate in the media on the benefits derived from wind when there was a shortage of supply of electricity. It is true. However, it is biased and one sided. When there is a sufficient electricity supply from a stable reliable source, it is not true. In fact, the opposite is true…
    http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/opinion-south-africa-at-a-electricity-crossroad1-23/rep_id:4136

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  • #

    I would like to tell you of my latest book and documentary.
    ‘The Deliberate Corruption of Climate Science’.
    My latest documentary and video of my presentation.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPzpPXuASY8
    My website is
    Thank you.
    Tim
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPzpPXuASY8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO08Hhjes_0
    http://www.drtimball.com

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    • #
      PeterPetrum

      Thank you, Tim,

      I will bookmark these links and WA ch with interest.

      Peter

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    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      For those who don’t want to follow the links, I copy this excerpt from Dr Tim’s reference, quoting President Eisenhower’s reference to the internet, which hadn’t been invented or even dreamt of at the time (1961). Remember, 1961, his farewell address..

      “Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.
      In this revolution, research has become central, it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

      Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

      The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present – and is gravely to be regarded.”

      Tim B.

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    observa

    The simple fact is not all electrons to the grid are equal and in fact with mandates and subsidies favouring unreliable ones, Govt has been deliberately sponsoring one of the purist forms of dumping imaginable. The only way to redress that would be to limit all electrons being tendered to the grid, strictly to those the generator can guarantee 24/7 all year round to create a level playing field marketplace that we enjoyed with thermal electrons. But of course the game would be up for unreliables who at best would have to partner with thermal power generators in order to lift their reliable/average supply levels and pay for that backup accordingly.

    You can think of an analogous communal tender called for say firefighting services and one tenderer stands out as so much cheaper than all the rest so why shouldn’t we award the contract to them? Well although they offer an unbeatable overall price, there’s a caveat that there’ll be no service at night and/or when the wind is low or blowing above 90km/hr. Welcome to the national grid tendering process.

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    Roy Hogue

    I hate to say it but I’m feeling very fortunate that I don’t live in South Australia. In spite of all the monkeying around by Sacramento with the free market we should have in electricity but don’t, our power remains available 24/7 with only a few interruptions, mostly short and infrequent.

    The rates are going up again however. :-(

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    Kim

    Solar and wind are niche power sources however they can certainly be used for lighting. If the shopping centres are serious they could put in full off grid solar powered lighting systems and keep on grid for a backup.

    00