JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

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Weekend Unthreaded, 8.8 out of 10 based on 17 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/z5e76yk

126 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    Yonniestone

    I like chicken,
    I like liver,
    Meow mix Meow mix,
    please deliver.

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    • #
      Peter C

      Your meaning is a bit obscure Yonnie.

      However I will take this opportunity to say that I look forward to the Weekend Unthreaded Posts.
      So many good ideas come out.

      31

  • #
    Eric Simpson

    My concern is Trump seems to be showing signs going soft on the Paris Accord.

    Believe me, it doesn’t matter if the EPA and DOE is run by skeptics if the US remains in the insane Paris Accord. Staying in the Paris would mean that the leftist climate loons won! Here we get our great hope Trump, and we still lose?

    Rex Tillerson Oct 2016: “At ExxonMobil, we share the view that the risks of climate change are serious. Addressing these risks requires broad-based, practical solutions around the world. Importantly, as a result of the Paris agreement, both developed and developing countries are now working together to mitigate greenhouse gas emissions.”

    Btw, Oil companies BENEFIT from the climate idiocy.

    Because it kills coal … and oil is a substitute.

    61

    • #
      Eric Simpson

      The problem is Trump saying a couple weeks ago “I’m not sure now whether I’ll keep us in the Paris Climate Accord.

      And then a few days later nominating the warmist Rex Tillerson.

      And Rex Tillerson has been a strong cheerleader for the Paris Accord and the SoS would likely play a key role on the Paris Accord.

      51

      • #
        el gordo

        Don’t worry Eric, Trump intends dismantling.

        We covered the Tillerson matter on a previous thread and my feeling is that he originally had no opinion on climate change, until some powerful shareholders leaned on him.

        He made concessions and mouthed the CC mantra, but he is probably no more than a lukewarmer.

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        • #
          Eric Simpson

          Tillerson was covered in the previous thread, but as far as I could tell no consensus was reached that Tillerson is insincere in his climate leftism. As far as shareholders, the shareholders voted down a measure to increase Exxon’s climate change related involvement in renewable energy.

          Almost all Republicans, even the warmists among the GOP like Kasich, were against Obamna’s Paris Climate Accord. Not Tillerson. That’s odd, and makes you think that he’s really a Democrat.

          If Trump had remained steady in his opposition to the Paris Accord it wouldn’t have been an cause for alarm. But the major concern comes when you combine the two: Trump saying that he might want to actually stay in the Paris Accord with his nomination just a few days later of a strong P.Accord supporter as Sec of State (who would be closely involved with things like the Paris Accord).

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          • #

            If Tillerson was passionate about CC he would have turned Exxon into BP or Shell. He would profit from carbon trading and imposts that stop coal competing. He’s had years to turn Exxon into a pandering gas company and he didn’t. I can’t see him putting himself out to stitch up the Paris agreement when we know Trump doesn’t want that, and nor do most of his cabinet.

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            • #
              Eric Simpson

              Good points, Jo. I will say, though, that at this point in time we don’t really know for sure that Trump wants to get out of the Paris Accord, based on … his own words ~ two weeks ago.

              So I don’t see it as hurting our cause to try to muster up some efforts to put pressure on Trump and Tillerson regarding climate change and the Paris Accord. Then they’ll see that we’re serious about not being betrayed.

              The goal: get them to clarify and reassure us. Or get a different nominee.

              31

              • #
                doubtingdave

                Trump has put strict ground rules in place for all his admin picks , no lobbying or shilling allowed , neither during or for years after serving in office ,Tillerson was an ambassador and negotiator for Exxon , which included at least playing lip service to the global warming meme , with the rules Trump has put down none of his picks would sign up for personnel profit or gain , but want to serve Trumps government and the American people , so don’t worry about Tillerson

                31

            • #
              Oliver K. Manuel

              I agree, Jo Nova. Trump has to maneuver past the influence of powerful globalists like the Bilderbergers

              http://www.jeremiahproject.com/newworldorder/nworder04.html

              50

            • #
              Oliver K. Manuel

              And Governor Moonbeam, who teamed up with the AGU to oppose Trump on global climate change.

              20

          • #
            Rod Stuart

            COP21 would be a VERY big anchor on the US economy. That is the last thing Trump wants. In order to stick, it needs the support of the Senate. And the GOP rule both houses.

            70

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        I have never met the man, but from what I understand, Trump’s management style is to ask questions, in ways that challenge what his subordinates recommend, and he keeps on doing so until he reaches a conclusion regarding what is best for the enterprise (however you want to define that). By all intents and purposes, he is a tough task-master. But also a very good and supportive leader.

        Conjecture over what he will do re the Paris Agreement is still up in the air, as far as I can see. I ain’t gonna try and second guess the man, and I certainly ain’t laying any money down.

        80

    • #
      Eric Simpson

      At WUWT someone suggested that oil is NOT a substitute for coal.

      But this article says oil and gas are in fact close substitutes: http://euanmearns.com/oil-and-coal-trends-in-global-energy-substitution/

      An excerpt:

      Then I noticed an interesting feature. The percentage contributions of oil and coal tend to move in opposite directions. Coal goes down, oil goes up. Oil goes down, coal goes up. Oil goes flat, so does coal. But neither oil nor coal show a clear overall relationship with the third major source of energy, natural gas. The suggestion is that oil and coal have been substituting for each other, with coal replacing oil or oil replacing coal depending presumably on market conditions at the time, but with gas remaining largely unaffected.

      So oil substitutes for coal when the market goes against coal.

      So oil does benefit from the bs climate accords.

      That’s probably why that Exxon guy Tillerson is a big proponent of the Paris Accord.

      21

      • #
        el gordo

        Tillerson is the right man for the job, Trump’s secret to success is that he doesn’t choose ‘yes men’.

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  • #
    Mark M

    From the University of Denver, on Atmospheric Radiation

    The Global Warming Debate:

    “The argument current among some scientists, politicians and the general public (not remarkable for geologic knowledge) is that the increase in temperature is caused by carbon dioxide emitted into the atmosphere by human activity, and that restriction of coal burning by electrical utilities, together with some less effective measures, will reduce the carbon dioxide concentration and solve the problem.

    It is indeed an inconvenient truth that this simple argument is rubbish.”

    http://mysite.du.edu/~etuttle/weather/atmrad.htm

    Nostradamus agrees:

    Nostradamus predictions 2017 – (couriermail)

    “GLOBAL WARMING WARS
    While not specifically mentioning [Doomsday Global Warming], Nostradamus predicts the possibilities of “Hot Wars” escalating in 2017.”

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    • #
      Eric Simpson

      “…and that restriction of coal burning by electrical utilities… will solve the problem”

      It is indeed an inconvenient truth that this simple argument is rubbish.

      Yes.

      And yesterday at this article a similar comment was made at The Federalist:

      Even if global warming is junk science, it still makes sense to try and reduce C02 emissions. If you remove the shackles of junk science, then natural gas starts to look like a viable substitute for carbon based fuels [ie COAL] and will result in a significant reduction in C02.

      I replied:

      It’s so easy for you to make a specious argument that’s superficially attractive but in reality is extremely dumb. There’s no “even if” as far as global warming being junk science.

      In fact it’s POLITICIZED “science.”

      Politicized science has ZERO credibility.

      Politicized science is driven by the leftist media, the leftist educational establishment, and leftist SINOs (Scientists In Name Only) that are radical political activists like the Berkeley leftist Michael Mann. These SINOs are not impartial, but rather partisan advocates for the cause. EVERYTHING these leftists say and write … is worthless, not credible.

      The evidence for AGW is not there. There’s been virtually no change in the climate for decades, despite the bs data manipulations and bs “hottest year ever” announcements every year. The chicken littles’ shrill predictions of doomsday go back decades, and they ALL never came true. By now we’re supposed to be nearly boiling with FL under water. Well it ain’t happened. NOTHING has happened in decades. It’s Crying Wolf bullsh|t.

      Nothings happened, and nothing will happen as a result of CO2, other than huge benefits to the planet via its greening. But still you think we should cut CO2 by switching to natural gas and so eliminating coal. Yet typically 40% to 90% of power from the grids around the world come from coal. Stupidity unleashed. The Paris Climate Accord for example would have a devastating impact if Trump didn’t repeal it.

      “Entire nations could be wiped off the face of the Earth by rising sea levels if the global warming trend is not reversed by the year 2000.” -Noel Brown, ex UNEP Director, 1989

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  • #

    how intl bankers gained control of america: i suggest 1:31 to 1:62 especially of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbEu-OLMKLQ

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  • #
    Dennis

    I would like advice on how to unthread my weekend, I only want to go back to Friday night and start again.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    Government ministers going to New York to meet with leaders of Alcoa to try to save VIC aluminium smelter.

    http://www.skynews.com.au/news/politics/state/2016/12/18/vic-ministers-fight-to-save-smelter.html

    Might build a new power station to save smelter…

    What, have they just worked out that aluminium smelters need vast amounts of cheap, reliable, fossil, hydro or nuclear power?

    171

    • #
      el gordo

      Do they know why or how the interconnector went down at the same time as maintenance was being carried out on the other line?

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      • #
        ianl8888

        So far, I haven’t seen an answer to that. In fact, it has disappeared down the memory hole. We are lied to, especially by omission, all the time.

        Omission deliberately creates Fake News.

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    • #
      David Maddison

      Someone elsewhere said a new power station would be gas powered. It would be silly to burn gas when there is vast amounts of cheap brown coal to be burned and there is no global warming or CO2 problem… It would be best to preserve gas as a transport fuel (CNG) or for domestic and industrial heating. I suspect gas is also much more expensive than coal. In any case, Alcoa would be better to leave Victoria with its militant unions and high “green” energy prices and ship the Australian bauxite and coal elsewhere for processing and then import the finished product like we do for everything else.

      141

      • #
        AndyG55

        Australian bauxite and coal are both available in northern Queensland.

        Why Alcoa is in Victoria must be a historical thing.

        71

        • #
          ianl8888

          Because it was designed to bring in export sales from Victoria’s extremely cheap lignite deposits (very thick seams, at very shallow depths. with hundreds of km strike length).

          50

          • #
            Analitik

            +many

            The brown coal plants have greater difficulty controlling combustion and feed when attempting to ramp so steady loads with some demand management capability are ideal in maintaining steady, efficient output. Aluminium smelters are ideal for this which is why electricity should be contracted to them at favourable rates.

            But try telling that to the watermelons.

            Without Portland, Victoria’s grid will be less stable just with the greater demand variation. Add in intermittent generators and the situation becomes far more difficult for the plant and grid operators.

            Molten salt storage of furnace heat could be a useful addition to coal plants, allowing for faster ramping without destabilising the furnaces – it would be nice to make some use of technology developed for renewables and apply it to traditional thermal plants. It would also add flexibility to PWR nuclear reactors.

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      • #
        Yonniestone

        They do realise that when closing Geelong’s Alcoa plant the closure of Anglesea’s coal power station soon followed resulting in a loss of 150 mw 24/7 or 40% of Point Henry’s power needs, when Point Henry closed the power produced by Anglesea was quietly accepted by the Vic Labour government until the Green collective cries became a potential political embarrassment to the image of planet saving.

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    • #
      Dennis

      Updated 18 Feb 2014, 7:39pm

      Sorry, this video has expired
      VIDEO: Alcoa Australia boss Alan Cransberg addresses the media (ABC News)
      PHOTO: The closure of the smelter would result in job losses. (AAP: Julian Smith)
      RELATED STORY: No decision yet on Point Henry smelter: Alcoa
      MAP: Geelong 3220
      Aluminium producer Alcoa has announced it will close its Point Henry smelter and two rolling mills in Australia, putting almost 1,000 people out of work.

      Alcoa employs 500 workers at the Geelong smelter and about 480 at the rolling mills at Geelong and at Yennora, New South Wales.

      The decision to shut the facilities was made at a meeting of the Alcoa Australia board this morning.

      Alcoa Australia chairman and managing director Alan Cransberg briefed his employees and called it a sad and significant moment in the history of the company.

      60

    • #
      TdeF

      Aluminium is solid electricity by value. Even allowing for the conversion of Bauxite to Aluminum, it is 90% electricity. Given the Victorian Government’s desire for electricity at least twice the current price and unreliable, Portland must close. No one can save it because the product will be unsaleable.

      Worse, as long as the RET stays in place, our disastrous National Carbon tax (which does not mention carbon), there is no need to bring in a new carbon trading scheme based on Certificates. They already exist and LGCs sell for $89 per Megawatt hour now, soon to go up. That means electricity retailers have to pay 9c a kw/hr just to sell electricity. That is not to buy electricity, just for the right to sell ‘non elegible’ electricity. This river of cash goes to people who generate wind or solar, whether it is sold or not.

      So it makes no sense to build a new power station, as aluminum stations around the world are placed next to big coal power stations to soak up the cheap night rate of excess base load. Also wind and solar cannot run an aluminum power station, as just proven.

      Gas turbines and hydro should only be top up energy for the baseload of brown coal. One will run out soon enough, especially with the ban on exploration and the other would only run Melbourne for three days.

      So there is no place for Portland unless the Victorian government hands over hundreds of millions per year, as they have done to keep Hazelwood going. The same in South Australia with the smelter at Port Pirie. The same in Whyalla where Weatherill wants Federal government to bail out Arrium.

      The tragedy is that silly government people and greens only understand carbon. A new system based on recycled alumina would be a great substitute for oil and a safe long term storage and sales mechanism. Consider, if aluminum is 90% electricity in value, it is a battery. A 100% recyclable battery. We could have windmills, tide, geothermal around the country running local smelters without distribution losses, without a grid and producing an ultra safe expensive metal very cheaply.

      Still, it is all about carbon. Evil democracies and industries. Farmers. Miners. Deluded conservatives. The people against everything are against Portland, but they will make a great show of trying to save what they hate and are trying to kill, even if it costs us a fortune. Pure deceit by science ignorant politicians and the people against everything, the Greens.

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      • #
        TdeF

        Consider that a tiny fraction of the $1,000Bn spent each year on windmills and solar was spent on developing an engine which ran on aluminium fuel. Even at today’s prices it is comparable in $/kg to oil and KJ/litre. (2.2x the density). CO2 is generated in making aluminium (aluminum in the US) but none in burning it. So even the Greens would think it ideal for Australia and the CO2 can stay in China.

        Anyway it is depressing to think the people against everything are destorying our country. No more water storage for the next drought. No more mines. No gas exploration. Every river valley turned into National Heritage, so no more dams or hydro or water reserve. Massive stretches of coastline into fish breeding grounds for every other country where Australians are not allowed fish.

        No fish. No power. No water. Super high prices for everything, as it is all imported and they even want to send our cash overseas to apologise for daring to burn our own coal and gas.

        At what point did Australian Politicians go completely mad? Shorten, Di Natalie, Turnbull. All want to cripple the country and all are solidly against even defending ourselves.

        We need Abbott back. He made real sense, worked hard, reduced CO2 with Direct Action at little cost, employed the unemployed doing it, ran a concrete business, has degrees in economics and law from Oxford, supported our defenders, fought fires himself and personally rescued many people from drowning. The alternatives are a Union official, a GP and very rich dilettante who inherited his fortune and hates the Queen, soldiers and poor people. I wonder who they have ever helped? You could lose your life fighting fires or saving drowning people, so not a good career move.

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        • #
          Rod Stuart

          They rolled TA because of his”three word slogans”.
          What did we get instead? “Jobs and Growth”, “agility and innovation”.
          No fish. No power. No water. NO TIMBER. Super high prices for everything, as it is all imported and they even want to send our cash overseas to apologise for daring to burn our own coal and gas.

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    • #
      TdeF

      So these are the people Government ministers want to invest in Portland, to save jobs? Must be a fun trip.

      30

    • #
      James

      They are accustomed to corporate welfare. Give them enough money and they will stay for a certain number of years. That is what happened in Massena NY. The state of NY took over some of their environmental clean up responsibilities as we I believe.

      00

  • #

    Someone has been listening to the Flim Flam Man: http://newatlas.com/antacid-stratosphere-planet-earth/46959/. And the unintended consequences are?

    60

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  • #

    You all know that I’m a fan of cricket history.

    Alf Shaw comes in and bowls to Charles Bannerman, who pats the ball along the ground straight back to bowler.

    The date is the 15th March 1877. The place is The Melbourne Cricket Ground.

    This match goes on to be designated as the first ever Test Cricket match.

    Beside facing that very first ball in Test Cricket, Charles Bannerman holds the longest standing record in World Cricket.

    That record is the highest score on debut by an Australian batsman.

    He batted throughout that first day, and into the second day. When his score was 165, a return from the outfield from George Ulyett struck him on the hand, splitting the webbing between two fingers and breaking one of his fingers. He could not continue batting, and retired hurt for 165. (considered also as Not Out)

    He was the eighth Australian batsman to leave the field. The score was now 7 for 240, so Bannerman had scored just under 70% of Australia’s runs. The rest of the Australian Innings folded away and we were all out for 245, so Bannerman’s total was 67.3% of the Australian total. No other Australian batsman got to 20, and there were only four other scores over 10.

    To this day, that is the highest percentage of the total in a completed Innings scored by one batsman, and that’s in EVERY Test ever played by every Country playing test cricket.

    No Australian batsman since that day has scored higher on debut than Charles Bannerman, a record that has stood for now 139 years.

    Here we are now in 2017, when sometimes we have to play an extra hour to get the full 90 overs in. Let’s look at just two games from The Invincibles Tour of 1948.

    In one of the early matches, Australia won the toss and elected to bat against Essex. The last Australian wicket fell off the last ball of the day, three two hour sessions for six hours of cricket. The Australian total was 10 for 720, an average of two runs per minute for the full playing time. In all, the Essex bowlers sent down 129 Overs, so the average scoring was 5.6 runs an over, or almost a run a ball, for the whole day. There were four Australian Century makers.

    Then there was that amazing Fourth Test at Headingly, Leeds.

    On the last day, England’s captain Norman Yardley batted on for 2 overs, and then declared, setting Australia the unlikely target of scoring 404 to win the Test, which Australia did. This is a Test match, so not a typical County game, so no need to really rush the overs.

    The winning runs were scored with ten minutes to go, before Stumps were drawn.

    So Yardley batted on for 2 overs, then there were ten minutes (or three overs) for the Innings change, and ten minutes till stumps, so also three overs.

    England still managed to bowl 114 overs in 5 hours and 35 minutes.

    The game has changed, and really, the adage that you cannot compare games across the ages, or even players across the ages holds true, but Cricket would have been just as interesting, if not more so in those days.

    Incidentally, that Essex game was played at Southend, and the ground was jam packed and overflowing for each day of the game, which Australia won by an Innings and 451 runs.

    The history of cricket is packed with so many things of interest that have been lost in time across the years.

    Charles Bannerman only played 3 Tests for Australia. He was the first Test batsman to score 50, 100, and 150.

    Tony.

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    • #
      David Maddison

      I am not a cricket fan but I appreciate your effort to write this, Tony.

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    • #
      JoKaH

      Tony – The reason you only get 90 overs in 6 hours these days is because an over now consists of 6 balls plus an ad break!

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    • #
      Just Thinkin'

      Tony, I think the overs in those days consisted of eight “legal” balls bowled as well.

      Of course, test matches may have been different.

      I remember as a kid we bowled eight ball overs.

      00

      • #
        Peter C

        Yeah True,

        Why are the over rates so pathetic these days?

        00

      • #

        From 1900 in the UK, they have always bowled six ball overs, so these matches were with 6 ball overs. Australia had eight ball overs from 1936 till the end of the 1978/9 season.

        My 20 year career covered 6 years with eight ball overs and the remainder with six ball overs.

        During my career, I had one eightfor, and 2 sevenfors, but the best I ever bowled was when we still had eight ball overs. Skipper put me on to open the bowling downwind, and I bowled eight (eight ball) overs unchanged, all of them maidens, and took 6 for none, and hospitalised the Captains of both teams, mine and theirs. In the days before helmets, a ball came off the shoulder of the bat into the face of their captain, batting at Number three. It broke his nose. In the time it took for the ambulance to arrive, their next batsmen played one off the edge straight to our team’s captain at fist slip. The keeper dived for the catch, and deflected the missed chance into our skippers jaw, breaking it. They both left in that same ambulance. Rodney hated me for for weeks, because he couldn’t stand tomato soup, and disliked intensely sucking it through a straw. He said I did it on purpose because I was Vice Captain, so I got to be skipper for six matches. Even with those interruptions, we still managed 15 eight ball overs an hour. (120 balls, the equivalent of 20 six ball overs)

        Great days those. So much fun playing Grade cricket for sheep stations on the field, and then having a few beers after the game.

        Tony.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    Many people don’t realise it is possible to drill a square hole.

    This silent Russian video demonstrates the geometry involved in doing so.

    https://youtu.be/L5AzbDJ7KYI

    Here is a real life demonstration.

    https://youtu.be/rjckF0-VeGI

    50

    • #
      TdeF

      You can plasma cut it easily enough and faster and to a quality for round holes which is acceptable to ASME. If the hole is only for bolts, that is quite good enough and as good as this fascinating device. The lateral forces though would require very strong clamping against round hole drilling. The chance the material moves is high. Small Chinese made XY plasma NC machines are very cheap and clamping is not necessary.

      50

  • #
    Peter C

    Temperature Drives CO2 levels but not the other way round.

    Has anyone else read the article by Bevan Dockery at WUWT?
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/12/16/climate-change-debate-latest-results/

    I was impressed by the correlation between the tropical land temperature (UAH I think) and the rate of change of CO2 at Mauna Loa. I did not follow some of the statistical arguments. Bevan uses the result to say that temperature could be driving CO2 but not the other way around.

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      TdeF

      Most of the world’s air is in the oceans. Given 98% of CO2 in particular, I would expect temperature to drive CO2 by Henry’s Law. In fact you would really need a extraordinary explanation for why this simple science did not work. It is textbook stuff. CO2 existed before we did, the oceans are not acidic and we did not make the CO2 levels go up.

      It is an absurd fantasy of the Greens to justify their campaign against Western democracies and our quality of life, all based on coal. This is turn trades on people’s real fear of a polluted planet, so much that they have been told that the gas from which all live on earth comes, is a terrible pollutant. Hazelwood is therefore the most polluting power station in Australia and must be closed. These are evil people. They mean to deceive and frighten.

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        Peter C

        These are evil people. They mean to deceive and frighten.

        Yes very very evil. Number One villain in the whole Climate thing was Maurice Strong (deceased but not lamented). Lots of others who will not be named right now.

        Listen the Delingpole podcast of his interview with Dr Tim Ball for more detail.

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        Peter C

        Yes I agree that there is an obvious mechanism by which temperature drives changes in CO2, but not the other way around.

        The extraordinary thing to me was the very close (almost exact) concordance between the ups and downs of the temperature (Tropics land) and the CO2 rate of change. A problem might be that tropics (land) is a long way away from Hawai (Mauna Loa) recording site. Perhaps there is a bit more work to done there

        If CO2 is coming out of the ocean (or going in) near Mauna Loa then I would like to see the correlation with Hawaii temperatures.

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          bobl

          Peter, it’s obvious isn’t it? Mauna Loa is a volcano, volcano’s spew out CO2, the closer you get to the vent where the CO2 comes out, the hotter it gets therefore CO2 causes high temperature – you don’t get it do you Pete…

          /sarc (Did I really need to tag this)

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          TdeF

          I had looked to that before. The idea is simple enough. If temperature drives CO2 then changes in temperature should drive changes in CO2. So you can get the sensitivity of CO2/T by the oscillations in the CO2 level. Of course people (experts) wrote to say that the accepted explation was the biosphere, decay of plant matter etc., but that quick answer could be incomplete. If temperature is the main driver of CO2, as it should be, then you can derive the CO2 sensitivity from the Delta CO2 per year and see how it fits the facts.

          So a quick look at the graph and you have say a variation of 7/320 parts over one year, so 2% over the year for say a surface temperature change (hard to estimate from poles to tropics) but say 10 degrees. So over a century and 0.8 degrees you get (2%*0.8/10)*100 or 16% increase in CO2. If the variation in surface temperature is only 5 degrees, this becomes 32%, not far from that observed. A lot depends on how you get the average temperature change.

          What this means is that these perturbations are enough to suggest that the entire CO2 increase of 50% over 100 years is explicable from the natural variation seen every year with a 0.8C increase in average surface temperature. The same calculation could be done from Henry’s law as a check.

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  • #
    pat

    17 Dec: Time: Justin Worland: Climate Scientists Fear Trump May Fatally Undermine Their Work
    Scientists say some of the transition team’s moves are unprecedented

    (NO EDITOR AT TIME FOR THIS SENTENCE?) Many Republicans — think President George W. Bush — have acknowledged the science climate change while arguing that certain demanded by environmentalists would damage the economy…

    One of Trump’s first targets — and one of the most challenging ones — will likely be Obama’s Clean Power Plan…
    ***Maybe his daughter Ivanka or another meeting with ***Al Gore will change his mind…
    “Anybody who says they know what’s going to happen is reading out of a broken crystal ball,” says Jonathan Levy, who served as deputy chief of staff in the Department of Energy.
    http://time.com/4602461/climate-change-scientists-donald-trump/

    read the Jonathan Levy quote above, which sounds like a CAGW sceptic, & thought i bet it is from elsewhere and is anything but…sure enough, here it is:

    16 Dec: Bloomberg: Trump’s Wolves May Gather Around Obama’s Energy Nursery
    A little-known clean-tech agency born of bipartisanship a decade ago will now come under the hot (but sustainable) lights.
    by Eric Roston and Brian Eckhouse
    NIGHT-TIME, BLACK CHIMNEY SMOKE VIDEO CAPTION: Trump’s Mysterious Feelings on Global Warming
    If private capital is insufficient to fund energy technology, and the U.S. mutes its programs, others might swoop in. “Does China pick up the slack?” asked Emily Kirsch, co-founder of Oakland-based solar incubator Powerhouse. “The capital is there, the interest is there.”

    ***But Jonathan Levy, director of policy and strategy for Vision Ridge Partners and a former deputy chief of staff at Energy, contends any predictions are like “looking at a broken crystal ball.” He added though that “a deemphasis on climate would be a huge mistake given the trillion-dollar market for energy technology that the U.S. can decide if we want to lead in—or follow.”…
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-15/trump-and-obama-clash-over-the-future-of-energy

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      pat:

      If “the trillion-dollar market for energy technology” is for renewables then it depends on subsidies to get going. Highly unlikely with Trump as POTUS.
      More likely it is Bloomberg slanting the boom in new coal and gas fired power stations in Asia, and places like Turkey, Malawi. South Africa etc.

      60

  • #
    pat

    funniest FakeNewsMSM story of the week:

    16 Dec: Breitbart: Aaron Klein: George Soros Finances Group Helping Facebook Flag ‘Disputed’ Stories
    IFCN (The International Fact-Checking Network) is hosted by the Poynter Institute for Media Studies. A cursory search of the Poynter Institute website finds that Poynter’s IFCN is openly funded by Soros’ Open Society Foundations as well as the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Google, and the National Endowment for Democracy.
    Poynter’s IFCN is also funded by the Omidyar Network, which is the nonprofit for liberal billionaire eBay founder Pierre Omidyar. The Omidyar Network has partnered with the Open Society on numerous projects and it has given grants to third parties using the Soros-funded Tides Foundation. Tides is one of the largest donors to left-wing causes in the U.S.
    Another significant Poynter Institute donor is the Craig Newmark Foundation, the charitable organization established by Craigslist Founder Craig Newmark. On Monday, just days before the announcement of the Facebook partnership, Poynter issued a press release revealing that Newmark donated $1 million to the group to fund a faculty chair in journalism ethics…
    Newmark funds scores of liberal groups also financed by Soros, including the Sierra Club, the New America Foundation, and the Sunlight Foundation.
    Newmark also finances the investigative journalism group called the Center for Public Integrity, where he serves on the board. Soros’ Open Society is another Public Integrity donor…ETC
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2016/12/16/soros-finances-group-helping-facebook-flag-disputed-stories/

    of course, it wasn’t a new story really. note the axed ***ABC Fact Check were at the following:

    June 2014: AmericanPressInstitute: Jane Elizabeth: Live from London: The Poynter Global Fact-Checking Summit
    The un-facts and the unfactual would get a new nemesis under a proposed international fact-checking organization — a group born out of the Poynter Global Fact-Checking Summit held this week at the London School of Economics…
    Participants overwhelmingly voted to create the organization, which would hold more such meetings and continue efforts discussed at the summit, said Bill Adair, the summit’s organizer and creator of PolitiFact.
    Tim Franklin, Poynter’s president, said Poynter would seek foundation funding “for this important effort.”
    More than 50 fact checkers, supporters and researchers attended the summit — the first of its kind in the world. Fact checkers from the U.S. included Glenn Kessler, the Washington Post’s Fact Checker; Eugene Kiely, director of FactCheck.org; and Angie Holan, editor of PolitiFact.
    Fact checkers came from as far away as Australia ***(ABC Fact Check)…ETC

    Not surprisingly, a recurring discussion among participants at the summit was how to fund their efforts, especially in a struggling media business that’s compounded in some countries by a particularly challenging economic climate…
    The summit was supported in part through grants from the Omidyar Network, the National Endowment for Democracy, the Ford Foundation, craigconnects and Duke University’s Reporters’ Lab…

    The people gathered at the renowned London research university “are true believers,” said keynote speaker Neil Brown, editor and vice president of the Tampa Bay Times, home of the Pulitizer prize-winning PolitiFact and now PunditFact. “Fact-checking is not a novelty. It’s here to stay.”…
    https://www.americanpressinstitute.org/fact-checking-project/covering-poynter-global-fact-checking-summit-live/

    was that the beginning of the Ministry of “Truth”?

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    pat

    among the long list of unreliable/partisan “fact-checkers” is:

    Poynter: International Fact-Checking Network fact-checkers’ code of principles
    8.***Climate Feedback (USA) Added Dec. 5th
    http://www.poynter.org/fact-checkers-code-of-principles/

    ClimateFeedback.org: Team members, advisors and contributors
    Advisors: Kerry Emanuel, Professor of Atmospheric Sciences, MIT, Member of the US National Academy of Science
    Associates:
    Daniel Nethery, PhD candidate at the Australian National University & Research officer in the Social Policy Research Centre at the University of New South Wales.
    John P. Abraham, Professor of Thermal Sciences, University of St. Thomas; Match-maker with Climate Science Rapid Response Team
    Scott Mandia, Professor of Earth and Space Sciences, Suffolk County Community College; Match-maker with Climate Science Rapid Response Team
    http://climatefeedback.org/team-advisors-contributors/

    21 May: Phys.org: Kerry Sheridan: Climate Feedback site allows scientists to correct media errors
    The US space agency, on its NASA Climate Twitter handle, called the project “a win for science and a win for climate reporting.”…
    Another popular target is Bjorn Lomborg, the Danish author of the 2001 best-seller, “The Skeptical Environmentalist,” who frequently writes about the politics and economics of climate change…
    In an interview with AFP, Lomborg said he was “quite shocked” by the site’s critiques, and disagreed with their tactics.
    ***”They are having people pretend to talk science but they are really talking politics,” he said.
    “Because they are saying unless you say something that shows global warming is bad, you are wrong,” he added…
    http://phys.org/news/2016-05-climate-feedback-site-scientists-media.html

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  • #
    pat

    16 Dec: ClimateChangeNews: Megan Darby: Green Climate Fund misses 2016 target as US donation in doubt
    Board celebrates approval of projects worth $1.3bn at meeting in Samoa, but falls short of $2.5bn goal and delays key policy decisions
    The Green Climate Fund board approved eight funding proposals worth US$315 million as a meeting in Samoa concluded on Friday.
    It brings the total allocated by the UN’s flagship climate finance initiative in 2016 to $1.3 billion, far short of a $2.5bn aspirational goal.

    Looming over the fund is a threat by US president-elect Donald Trump to axe an outstanding pledge that accounts for nearly a quarter of the $10bn starting capital…

    Co-chairs of the board hailed the meeting a success…
    His Australian colleague Ewan McDonald highlighted the $98m for Pacific island states, at the board’s first ever meeting in the region.
    Host nation Samoa got $57.7m for flood management in the Vaisigano River catchment; cyclone-ravaged Vanuatu got $23m for information services and the Cook Islands got the first $17m tranche of a renewable energy investment programme…
    Civil society observers were less impressed, pointing to policy decisions that had been kicked down the road.

    David Eckstein, policy advisor at NGO Germanwatch, tweeted that no country ownership guidelines, simplified approval process or 2017 work plan had been agreed…
    Concerns were also raised at the appointment of Saudi Arabia delegate Ayman Shasly to replace Fakir as developing country co-chair next year. The oil-rich kingdom opposed calls to rule out fossil fuel investments, observers said…
    Bangladeshi expert Saleemul Huq wrote for Climate Home that the body was not fit for purpose, with too much paperwork and not enough money reaching those who needed it.
    He proposed a radical overhaul, giving national governments control over spending and rigorously monitoring the results to learn what worked.
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2016/12/16/green-climate-fund-misses-2016-target-as-us-donation-in-doubt/

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    pat

    keep up the attacks folks. not a smart tactic for the believers, i would have thought.
    Trump will be ostracised, Mary! ostracism has only strengthened him so far:

    16 Dec: ClimateChangeNews: Ed King: US will be a ‘rogue state’ if Trump backtracks on climate: UN envoy
    Former Ireland president Mary Robinson says incoming administration must live up to the country’s commitments or be ***ostracised
    Governments, civil society and faith groups must unite and condemn the US if the incoming Donald Trump administration pulls out of the Paris Agreement and stops climate funds…
    “If the Trump administration does not live up to its Paris commitments in whatever way – by increasing emissions, looking for oil or failing to support the Green Climate Fund – it must be called out as a rogue state,” she (Mary Robinson) said.
    “It’s just not acceptable: countries came to an agreement in Paris. The situation of the world could be grossly worsened – the window to act is short yet the opportunities there are good.”…
    “It is a concern, the budget has not been increasing in real terms. Till now the UK has given leadership and the US has done more than previous administrations,” she said.
    “If that doesn’t continue it will be quite serious, and we’ll need to press ahead with smarter ways of acting as the money won’t be there.”
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2016/12/16/us-will-be-a-rogue-state-if-trump-backtracks-on-climate-un-envoy/

    Megan – your smug insults might cause Trump to quit the UN altogether & tell them to get out of the US!

    16 Dec: ClimateChangeNews: Megan Darby: Weekly wrap: Bloomberg sets the clean business agenda
    While the Donald Trump horrorshow continues, this week brought some reasons for climate watchers to be cheerful…
    Still, the US is not the world, oil is not all business and a G20 taskforce of financial heavyweights set out a radically different vision for a prosperous future…

    One tool to get cash flowing to climate-friendly investments at scale is the green bond. Development banks and corporates have already got in on the act; now it’s the turn of governments.
    To the chagrin of the French, Poland might just beat them to issue the world’s first sovereign green bond. Investors and NGOs are understandably sceptical, given Warsaw’s usual hostility towards renewable energy, but an official explicitly ruled out any of the proceeds going to coal assets…

    Number of the week
    Enough US solar power capacity was added last quarter to power a new home every 11 seconds, in a glut of large scale projects…

    Trump bump
    US green groups have seen membership surge in the past month, as citizens prepare to defend environmental protections from the incoming Republican administration…

    Back to Trump
    Ok, ok, I can’t avoid it any longer. The incoming leader of the free world continues to nominate fossil-friendly white men to key roles and emphasise their mandate to scrap environmental regulations…

    ***And finally…
    Climate scientists must fight the rising tide of “bullshit”, argues UK-based researcher Philip Williamson in an editorial for Nature.
    He proposes a rating system for websites reporting on science: “We could call it the Scientific Honesty and Integrity Tracker, and give online nonsense the SHAIT rating it deserves.”
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2016/12/16/weekly-wrap-bloomberg-sets-the-clean-business-agenda/

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    • #
      Fred Streeter

      Ostracism

      King John Don was not a good man —
      He had his little ways.
      And sometimes no one spoke to him
      For days and days and days.
      And men who came across him,
      When walking in the town,
      Gave him a supercilious stare,
      Or passed with noses in the air —
      And bad King Don stood dumbly there,
      Blushing beneath his crown.

      King Don was not a good man,
      And no good friends had he.
      He stayed in every afternoon …
      But no one came to tea.
      And, round about December,
      The cards upon his shelf
      Which wished him lots of Christmas cheer,
      And fortune in the coming year,
      Were never from his near and dear,
      But only from himself.

      (Apologies to A.A. Milne)

      13

  • #
    AndyG55

    Great post on NotALot….

    https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2016/12/17/five-years-of-giss-cheating/

    The graph is very interesting.

    Not Mann-made global warming… but GISS-made global warming

    97

    • #
      Peter C

      Cool the past and warm the present. Just the exact opposite of what is needed to correct for the urban heat island effect.

      And if GISS actually keeps any old data then they do not publish it any more. I am hoping that the new administration demands some explanation, then closes them down.

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      • #
        bobl

        I sent a note to Trump to appoint Anthony Watts as GISS Executive manager over the top of Gavin with instructions to shut it down. I said Anthony would do a great job.

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  • #
    Andrew McRae

    Could this be the key to resolving the climate debate?
    http://lesswrong.com/lw/o6p/double_crux_a_strategy_for_resolving_disagreement/

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    • #
      Peter C

      Possibly but I hope not. The key, as far as I am concerned is objective research that actually tests the disputed theories.

      If some one can produce an experiment that shows that atmospheric CO2 traps heat or slows heat transfer from the earth surface to outer space, then I would be prepared to change my mind.

      11

      • #
        Andrew McRae

        If some one can produce an experiment that shows that atmospheric CO2 traps heat or slows heat transfer from the earth surface to outer space,

        Sure.
        From satellites and spectrometers there is this: https://scienceofdoom.com/2011/04/03/understanding-atmospheric-radiation-and-the-%e2%80%9cgreenhouse%e2%80%9d-effect-%e2%80%93-part-ten/
        Roy Spencer includes a link to an experiment in this summary: http://www.drroyspencer.com/2016/07/the-warm-earth-greenhouse-effect-or-atmospheric-pressure/

        then I would be prepared to change my mind.

        That is unlikely given your track record. I gave you links last week that showed the exact match between theory and experiment and you took no notice of them.

        Not that any of this matters much, as the messiah Trump is widely tipped to pour cold water on global warming activism in due course, and with any luck we might get climate scientists studying how the climate really works instead of supporting a preordained U.N. economics policy.

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        • #
          theRealUniverse

          That theory is plain wrong. Even Roy S cant disobey the laws of thermo, the GH effect doesnt work.
          “How do we know there is downward IR radiation from the sky?” Hes wrong its been measured to not exist by Prof. N. Nahle.

          25

          • #
            Speedy

            I thought Newton had that sorted out back in 16 hundred and something. Heat went from hot to cold.

            The only out is where the cold isn’t quite cold. But that will depend on where you apply your battery limits. Simple.

            Cheers,

            Speedy

            13

          • #
            theRealUniverse

            Some …. gave red thumbs to a disproof of a fake theory..well I never..Also there at least 3 published papers in physics demolishing the GH theory by reputable physicists. And Speedy yes that part of thermo is well known, unless one wants to peddle something else to the masses.

            00

          • #
            Andrew McRae

            You haven’t even read that, have you?
            That paper…
            - takes a broad spectrum emissivity of the whole earth and uses it as the emissivity of soil in the infrared.
            - says it graphs a difference in radiance as the green line and shows a green line measured in Kelvin.
            - describes a change from a negative number to an even more negative number as an increase.
            - makes predictions of radiative transfer from flawed intuition instead of the empirically-validated radiative transfer equations.
            - measures significant radiation coming from the night sky and still concludes there is no greenhouse effect.
            - tries to claim that when radiometers measure downwelling radiation from air, they are really measuring downwelling radiation from air, which is not the same thing as downwelling radiation from air.
            - contradicts itself by saying “There are not surfaces emitting radiation in the atmosphere. The [radiometer] recorded values correspond to a combination of radiation”.
            - has a problem statement and conclusion which show the author does not even understand basic high school level radiative transfer theory, let alone the claims of greenhouse theory.

            Hmm, actually there’s an even scarier prospect… that you did read it, and noticed all of the above, and still approved of all the above anyhow.

            00

            • #
              theRealUniverse

              Actually I did read it! You are just a warmist in wolfs clothing. Go and read the others including slaying the sky dragon.

              00

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Sorry all I read was Double Crutch which would involve twice the cnuts we have had to endure so far……

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    • #
      tom0mason

      Sounds like a Neville Chamberlain method of negotiating.

      Green Peas in our time, eh?

      30

  • #
    el gordo

    El Nino only a bit player in the extra warmth last year, according to David Karoly, Mitchell Black, EunPa Lim and Harry Hendon.

    ‘For the extreme October of 2015, while short-term weather patterns and the El Niño contributed to the extremes, breaking these climate records would have been substantially less likely without human-induced climate change.

    ‘Climate change has already altered the extreme weather we experience in Australia and will continue to do so over the coming years.’

    The Conversation

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    • #
      bobl

      “The conversation”? You mean “the narration”…. No conversation in that pit of socialist group-think.

      61

  • #
    Eric Simpson

    https://fabiusmaximus.com/2016/07/07/stories-climate-doom-shape-public-opinion-98147/

    THIS is not good:

    Excerpt from link above. We must fight it:

    A battle consists of phases. Both sides muster their forces, seize advantageous positions. Victory comes to the side that breaks through their foe’s lines. Then begins the pursuit phase, as the losers are chased away or destroyed.

    Climate alarmists have followed this formula in the climate public policy debate. They built commanding positions in academia, the news media, ngo’s (such as foundations and the major science professional associations), and the relevant government agencies. With the funding and power so gained, they attack — abandoning the scientists of the IPCC (once called the “gold standard of climate science). Their articles are cheered and echoed by scores of organizations. Dozens of glitzy (well-funded) websites staffed by professionals propagate their messages, as do a flood of books and films.

    Now they use their commanding position to say almost anything, however bogus, which pushes their message of climate doom. This campaign will reshape public opinion. For more information see Why skeptics will lose the US climate policy debate.

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    • #
      tom0mason

      Eric Simpson,

      “With the funding and power so gained, they attack — abandoning the scientists of the IPCC (once called the “gold standard of climate science). Their articles are cheered and echoed by scores of organizations. Dozens of glitzy (well-funded) websites staffed by professionals propagate their messages, as do a flood of books and films.”

      That may be so but the weather and climate is on the skeptics side. This is especially so now, as the winter weather causes havoc and the sun’s decline will mean cooler summers.
      How many people will believe that AGW causes more snow? How many will believe when the crops fail?

      My younger sister is finally coming round.
      She delighted in telling me that 2016 is the hottest year ever. I reminded her that when she was a child growing up in the UK, the news reports were full of frying eggs on the hot tarmac roads, month long droughts, fires in the countryside, and overheated tarmac sliding off the road surface in a gooey mess. She remembered. When did she last hear of such things again? She hasn’t.
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3150489/Heatwave-week-Arctic-compared-sizzler-1976-lived-never-forget-writes-BRIAN-VINER.html

      40

  • #
    Robert Rosicka

    After having a go at some trolls on WUWT I did some thinking and tried to work out why they had managed to wind me up .
    I used to be on the side of consensus, didn’t question anything always believed everything I was told about the horrors of Co2 and the ozone layer garbage .
    I believed that man was changing the climate , I was brainwashed .
    My moment of clarity came by accident after hearing one day that it had been the hottest day in recorded history for our region , for some reason I checked and to my horror discovered after a lot of research that “recorded history” was actually 20 years .
    The more I looked the worse it became for my then belief , I found a link to what our BOM did at Rutherglen and then found out they pulled the same scam nationwide , homogenised temperature to make the past and present match the CAGW meme.
    Owning a swimming pool and struggling with ph year after year I never gave a second thought to the claim that the oceans were becoming acidic until one day when I was balancing ph and a light bulb turned on and I yelled heh that can’t be right .
    How can something that’s alkaline without becoming neutral be more acidic ? I’d been lied to all along but why ? I guess it’s this frustration of realising you’ve been conned that made me a bit testy with some trolls recently but had I of known of sites like this back then would I have been a troll for my brainwashed belief ?
    Not sure but I hope not .

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    • #
      AndyG55

      I actually did some work once for “Climate Action Newcastle”

      Then I started doing some basic research.

      DOH !!! Much embarrassment, realising that I had just “accepted” :-(

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    • #
      bobl

      Robert,
      This is not at all an unusual story. I am an Engineer, not always convinced of the Global Warming crapola since I did work for some time in Coal but convinced enough that I thought renewable energy is a good idea, and it couldn’t hurt to lower CO2. In any case I was a rather luke warm believer.
      Then of course Rudd sought to introduce his tax, this was a catalyst for me.

      I decided that since Canberra wanted access to my back pocket yet again, that perhaps I should check out why I was being asked to pay thousands extra a year.

      I read a mathematically correct posting about the fact that there being insufficient energy in global warming to produce the effects supposedly seen. Then I happened on a lecture by the late great Professor Carter that basically said, it swings both ways, sufficiently hotter or particularly colder are both issues and mankind needs to be prepared for all weather outcomes. For example two consecutive years of NH crop failures due to excessively cold springs could bring most of the northern hemisphere to it’s knees and we know for a fact that it has happened before in the LIA. In addition prof Carter basically said that given the relationship between Temp and CO2 is a logarithm there is no reason to expect that the temperature rise for the next 120PPM rise in CO2 will be greater than it was for the last 120PPM and the last 120PPM produced something less than 0.7deg and the IPCC was claiming double or triple that would happen!

      So being an engineer I checked, I did what engineers call boundary testing (sometimes called sanity checking), I calculated the WORST POSSIBLE OUTCOMES. This is the first one

      The Temperature change is proportional to the logarithm of the ratio of C02. So Mathematically that produces

      dT=C x ln(CO2(Final)/CO2(Initial))

      But there are two unknowns the proportionality constant ( C ) and dT but we do have enough information to solve this. So we know that CO2 went from 270 PPM to 400 PPM and the temperature rose 0.7 degrees since 1850. Because this is a worst case (Boundary Test) we make the assumption that the temperature change is ALL DUE TO CO2 and not just that after 1950.

      So we get this
      0.7 = C x ln(400/270), rearranging C = 0.7/ln(400/270), C – 1.79

      Knowing C I could calculate a worst case sensitivity for a doubling of CO2 based on published historical CO2 and temperature differences since 1850.

      dT = 1.79 ln(2) = 1.24 Degrees per doubling, while Rudd’s government was claiming up to 6 Degrees per doubling. First nail in the coffin.

      So I thought I’d cross check this.
      Co2 absorbtion bands are 85% opaque, so what would be the temperature change if they were 100% opaque. Once again as this was a boundary test I could assume that ALL HEATING IS CAUSED BY CO2. The atmospheric temp rise is 33 degrees above theoretical black body so from that I can say that there is roughly 33/85=0.39 degrees change for every percent change in CO2 “Opaqueness” (Absorbtion) there was 15% left to go, so 15 x 0.39 = 5.89 deg C, so I could say definitively that if earth had a 100% CO2 atmosphere there would be no more than 5.89 degrees temperature rise EVER. Note that it isn’t linear like this and the energy is actually proportional the energy ^3 meaning that as the temperature of an object rises it becomes harder to heat it furhter. The linaer response is much worse than that so it’s a good “Sanity check”. Scientist were saying that only around 10 deg of the 33 is due to CO2 which applied to my check showed my max rise “EVER” was more like 2 degrees rather than 6; but here was Rudd and the IPCC claiming up to 6 degrees for a mere doubling which equates to 78 deg C for a CO2 1013 HPa atmosphere, and that somehow it was my responsibility to pay thousands of dollars to unnamed rent seekers to stop it.

      The idea of earth’s temperature rising 78 deg C because we substituted CO2 for Nitrogen and Oxygen was such a stretch that I discarded the IPCC as being WRONG immediately. It can be shown that the IPCC conclusion for a CO2 atmosphere is energetically non conservative (doesn’t obey conservation of energy).

      My journey from uninformed believer to sceptic was complete

      Now of course I do math that debunks a lot more than just climastrology, the basic revelation that the models are not conservative for energy allows one to challenge just about any modelling result. Lord Monckton actually has discovered why – The basic feedback equation in the climate equation is applied as a Temperature feedback, but TEMPERATURE is not energy, in the actual climate it is ENERGY that feeds back, not temperature. Because the relationship between temperature and energy is NOT LINEAR, the models don’t conserve energy!

      Jo, David needs to pick up this mistake in his work.

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      • #
        Speedy

        Bob Carter – a great man. I hope he’s gone to somewhere where the climate and the population are pleasant.

        Cheers,

        Speedy

        10

        • #
          bobl

          Bob Carter answered all my emails. one of my main arguments (that the growth of CO2 sinks in Australia since 1990 actually eclipses our total emission) is actually based on one of Bob’s arguments – Our sinks have increased about 1.2 GT per annum while our emission is only a total 0.5 GT. So our nett emissions are MINUS 0.7 GT cf 1990. The guberment wants 28% reduction – well we are already at 150%! No tax required.

          10

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘The forecasts saw bookies trim the odds of a white Christmas from 10/1 to 8/1 for London, and 6/1 to 6/4 for Leeds. Britain has had a much milder month than the December average of 6.5C (43.7F).

    ‘Met Office spokesman Grahame Madge told The Sun that a recent batch of high pressure over continental Europe and Scandinavia had blocked Britain from colder Atlantic conditions, but this was expected to lift.’

    The Sun

    30

  • #
    Crakar24

    Has anyone mentioned Antarctic sea ice once again at record levels?

    71

    • #
      toorightmate

      Ssshhhhhhhh.
      And also, do not mention the myriad of cold temperature records being broken in several places in North America at present.
      BUT,we, the lucky country, has a group of researches going to the Antarctic to determine why a glacier is melting so quickly.
      It will raise the seal level by 3.5 metres you know.
      Talk about fake news emanating from Fairfax and the ABC!!!!

      51

    • #
      Speedy

      G’day Crakar

      Long time no speak. I’ve spent the day shooting down turkeys (so dumb they had to be bots) at the Australian.

      What they lack in brains, they compensate by stupidity.

      Cheers,

      Speedy

      41

      • #
        Crakar24

        Hi speedy how’s it going mate good to hear from you again.

        Yes the religion is strong in some stupid as they are don’t feel sorry for them keep the foot firmly on the throat figuratively speaking of course.

        10

  • #
    pat

    17 Dec: CBC: Up to 20 cm of snow expected in B.C. as cold, wintry weather batters much of Canada
    1st day of winter is still a few days away, but the season is making its presence known across the country
    Winter is making its presence known across Canada this weekend, with many areas of the country under extreme cold or snowfall warnings…
    And cold temperatures have frozen ponds and lakes in the Vancouver area that have not seen skaters in years…
    Manitoba can expect temperatures in the -30 C range, with winds making it feel more like -40 to -45 C.
    In Saskatoon, Environment Canada predicts temperatures between -30 C and -35 C, with winds making it feel as cold as -45 C…
    The cold continues in Alberta, with most of the province — except areas west of Calgary — under an extreme cold warning. Environment Canada says Arctic air and clear skies will make it to feel like -40 C…
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/weekend-weather-1.3901701

    never mind, the carbon tax will soon bring those temperatures down:

    17 Dec: CBC: Peter Cowan: Come by Chance refinery warns carbon tax could shut it down
    Manager says carbon tax would cost the refinery tens of millions of dollars
    The manager of North Atlantic Refining Limited (NARL) is warning that the federal government’s mandate for a price on carbon could put it out of business.
    Dan Harris says margins are already tight at the Come by Chance refinery, so adding extra costs would make operating it impossible…
    The federal government has told all provinces they must put a price on carbon, rising to $50 a tonne by 2022.
    Harris estimates that would cost the refinery about $50 million a year – a cost it can’t pass on to its customers.
    Only 10 per cent of the fuel the refinery produces is used in Newfoundland and Labrador, as most of it is exported to the United States, where the refineries it competes against don’t have to pay similar costs…
    The refinery is facing other financial pressures as well, laying off more than 100 workers to tackle shrinking margins.
    Harris said NARL is committed to reducing output of greenhouse gases…
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/refinery-carbon-tax-1.3900923

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  • #
    pat

    17 Dec: DailyMail: ‘Life threatening’ arctic blast chills northern United States with temperatures dropping to minus THIRTY – as forecasters warn of heavy snowfall and frostbite risk
    By Reuters and Ariel Zilber

    National Weather Service warns residents of Montana and North Dakota to guard against hypothermia
    Authorities say exposure of 10 minutes or less of frigid air in these areas could leave people with frostbite
    Weather forecast calls for temperatures of around minus 30 degrees Fahrenheit in Montana
    Bitter cold comes from blast of arctic air blowing south from Canada across the US border
    Extreme cold has joined forces with a storm that has moved in from the Pacific Ocean, bringing snowfall
    Up to 6 inches of snowfall is anticipated in Wisconsin, Indiana, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4043656/Life-threatening-arctic-blast-chills-northern-United-States-temperatures-dropping-minus-THIRTY-heavy-snowfall-expected.html

    17 Dec: MSN: Reuters: Scott Malone: Arctic blasts’ icy fingers grasp northeastern United States
    ***Boston’s morning low of 4 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 16 Celsius) was the coldest for this date since 1883, when the mercury dipped to 1 Fahrenheit (minus 17 Celsius), according to the National Weather Service…
    Wind chill and winter storm warnings were in effect for much of the northern United States – as far west as Montana and Idaho through the Midwest to New York, Massachusetts and Maine.
    Schools were closed in Worcester and Lowell, Massachusetts, due to the frigid conditions…
    Temperatures in Chicago were expected to plummet below 2F(-17C) on Sunday, possibly breaking the 1983 record for the coldest game ever played in that city’s Soldier Field NFL stadium…
    http://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/arctic-blasts-icy-fingers-grasp-northeastern-united-states/ar-AAlDpNB?li=BBnb7Kz

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    pat

    17 Dec: Breitbart: ‘Impartial’ BBC Calls Trump Election ‘An American Tragedy’
    by Oliver JJ Lane
    Britain’s public broadcaster — the BBC — has called the election of Donald Trump an “American Tragedy” in a headline for an article featuring an interview with the editor of the New Yorker magazine.
    David Remnick, editor of the stridently anti-Trump New Yorker was granted an interview with BBC News, part of the British media company which is funded to the tune of billions of pounds a year by a television tax forced on the UK public…

    He also had criticism lined up for media organisations, accusing some of failing to fact-check to his standards.
    Mr. Remnick said: “I have my part to play as a journalist, and to publish fact, to investigate deeply, to speak the truth as we see it, to check facts, to live in a fact-based world – which not all journalism does.
    “It never did, and now it’s even more chaotic and bizarre, and a lot of what’s entering into the world of political discourse – not least the Trump world – is this notion of non-fact based news… Trump himself has trafficked in these conspiracy theories whether it’s about the Chinese and ***global warming or about any number of other things”.
    Ironically, the journalist also had a critical word for his BBC interviewer. When asked whether the USA had a unique problem in not having a media organisation that the majority could trust in, he hit back at the BBC, remarking: “If you think that French state television or the BBC in England is somehow a common narrative of the country, I think you’re fooling yourself. I bet you there are a lot of people, the people in the north of England, who think the BBC is a bunch of lefties”…
    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/12/17/impartial-bbc-calls-trump-election-american-tragedy/

    17 Dec: BBC: David Remnick: Why Trump’s win is ‘an American tragedy’
    On the night of 8 November, as the seismic result of the US presidential race came into focus, New Yorker editor David Remnick penned an emotional polemic calling Donald Trump’s victory “an American tragedy” and “a sickening event in the history of liberal democracy”…(SO BBC THOUGHT THEY SHOULD GIVE HIM A PLATFORM TO REPEAT THIS CR*P!)
    Newsnight editor Ian Katz talked to him about how the media misjudged the US election, the forces behind Trump’s triumph and what happens next.
    Ian Katz: How did ***you get it so wrong? How did the whole media get it so wrong?…
    Ian Katz: Aside from the actual numbers, did ***you all miss that something significant was happening out there in the country? That there was this tide of anger, frustration – whatever it is…
    Ian Katz: I mean there are possibly not that many Trump voters who will see Newsnight, but I imagine if they did, they would watch you and think ***you just still didn’t get it…
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38344175

    ***Katz – what’s with the all the “you” got it wrong questions?
    nice try at deflection, given BBC predicted a Hillary win over and over and over and over again.

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    Dave in the States

    David Remnick said:

    “It never did, and now it’s even more chaotic and bizarre, and a lot of what’s entering into the world of political discourse – not least the Trump world – is this notion of non-fact based news… Trump himself has trafficked in these conspiracy theories whether it’s about the Chinese and ***global warming or about any number of other things”.

    Global Warming is the biggest fake news story of all time. We have people simply saying it is a fact because they heard from somebody, who heard from somebody, who heard that “scientists” agree that it is the case, but they have never really presented their cases based on empirical evidence per the scientific method. Model results are not evidence. And homogenization/adjustment of the record is just old fashion corruption of data.

    We have the same thing with the “Russians hacked the election” meme of the last week. I’m still waiting to see some actual evidence. I’m not taking Obama’s word for it.

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    Oliver K. Manuel

    The investigative reporter, Jon Rappoport, correctly described society as locked in an international web of “consensus” deceit so successful that they can no longer distinguish true from false.

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    RAH

    Once again solar activity well down and the disc is virtually spotless. https://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/sunspots/

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    Analitik

    For Mike

    The U.S. shale oil and gas industry hasn’t made any real money since 2009

    and to give the illusion that the shale industry is working,

    The Fracking Industry Avoids Paying Royalties To Its Landowners

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-18/us-shale-gas-industry-countdown-disaster-0

    Of course the reason that so much money/credit has been made available for the shale industry lies in the same loose monetary policies that fund renewables (which depend on gas turbine ramping to mask their intermittency).

    In the end, it’s all part of the same bubble that Trump had the guts to point out during his campaign and will catastrophically implode during his presidency (it’s far too late for him or anyone else to do anything about it).

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    Oliver K. Manuel

    Humans on a water-covered planet located exactly one AU (astronomical unit) from a pulsar-centered star were endowed by their creator with abundant energy and inalienable rights to enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    My research mentor, Paul Kazuo Kuroda, risked his life to make certain abundant energy was not taken from the public by the tyrannical world government that took control of the world after WWII.

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/TRIBUTE_TO_KURODA.pdf

    Perhaps Donald Trump risked his fortune and his life to restore those basic rights to the American public, too.

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    el gordo

    ‘Thermalization and the complete dominance of water vapor in reverse-thermalization explain why atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) has no significant effect on climate. Reported average global temperature (AGT) since before 1900 is accurately (98% match with measured trend) explained by a combination of ocean cycles, sunspot number anomaly time-integral and increased atmospheric water vapor.’

    Dan Pangburn gets a guest post (Climate Change Drivers) at the Hockey Schtick.

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      el gordo December 21, 2016 at 7:00 pm

      “Dan Pangburn gets a guest post (Climate Change Drivers) at the Hockey Schtick.”

      Dans article is good! It however, fails to mention that there is three times the amount of airborne water condensate (clouds, ice) as there is WV. This is where almost half the insolation is continually converting (evaporating clouds) to latent heat, with no change in temperature!! This reverts to powering atmospheric exitance to space nighttime as such re-condenses but does not precipitate. Temperature is but a very poor indicator of the solar power stored in or near this Earth.
      All the best! -will-

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    el gordo

    Jennifer Marohasy and John Abbot are working on a book and if their findings are confirmed it will cause a real headache for BoM.

    ‘Our chapter concludes that the series for southeast Australia is best described as showing statistically significant cooling (yes cooling) of 1.5 degree Celsius to 1949, followed by warming of nearly 2 degrees Celsius to the present.’

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    Your Senator is one of the few that does not ignore the obvious! The others defend their own ignorance!!! Different ways of pursuing happiness!
    http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=18525

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