JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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The US is the child saying “the emperor has no clothes”

The sorcerers say they can stop volcanoes with light globes. They come dressed as scientists, but chant fantasies about “deniers”.The Global Bullying has cowed whole nations into coughing up money for lost causes. But as I’ve said before, bullying is brittle, and once the cracks appear in the veneer, it can come apart very fast.

Francis Menton predicts the Impending Collapse  Of The Global Warming Scare

Just asking these questions in the public domain will change everything:

Now the backers of the global warming alarm will not only be called upon to debate, but will face the likelihood of being called before a highly skeptical if not hostile EPA to answer all of the hard questions that they have avoided answering for the last eight years.  Questions like:  Why are recorded temperatures, particularly from satellites and weather balloons, so much lower than the alarmist models had predicted?  How do you explain an almost-20-year “pause” in increasing temperatures even as CO2 emissions have accelerated?  What are the details of the adjustments to the surface temperature record that have somehow reduced recorded temperatures from the 1930s and 40s, and thereby enabled continued claims of “warmest year ever” when raw temperature data show warmer years 70 and 80 years ago?  Suddenly, the usual hand-waving (“the science is settled”) is not going to be good enough any more.  What now?

The eco-Worriers are pushing the message that the USA risks being a rogue state, a “backward nation”, a “pariah” — but the truth is, the USA is leading the way out of political correctness, and every nation on Earth will want to follow it to cheap energy. The little kid is saying we need fridges and phones in a house full of teenagers showing off their candles made of coconut fat. Trump has broken the spell — he’s not pandering. As the US grows rich with cheap energy, other nations will be left waving last years mental-disco-pants, and threatening not to play.

And how will the United States fare on the international stage when it stops promising to cripple its economy with meaningless fossil fuel restrictions?  As noted above, people like Isabel Hilton predict a combination of ostracism and “loss of leadership” of the issue, most likely to China.  Here’s my prediction:  As soon as the United States stops parroting the global warming line, the other countries will quickly start backing away from it as well.  This is “The Emperor’s New Clothes,” with the U.S. in the role of the little kid who is the only one willing to say the obvious truth in the face of mass hysteria.

To stop bleeding votes to the sensible right, the centre left are going to have to show they can reign in the ecoMonsters.

There is light at the end. The funding gusher could be switched off. The truth is that if subsidies stop to wind farms and theatre groups that “kill deniers”, hardly anyone will notice bar the “parasites who have been wasting the money.”*

The environmental movement has climbed itself way out onto the global warming limb.  Now the Trump administration is about to start sawing off the limb behind them.

It is  a well written article at the Manhattan Contrarian. This will be a bumpy twisting road, though.

*Unfortunately, there are a lot of parasites.

h/t Patrick Moore, Scott of the Pacific, Pat for the “rogue state” link.

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196 comments to The US is the child saying “the emperor has no clothes”

  • #
    Trevor

    “Now with the wisdom of years I try to reason things out
    And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts
    Save us all from arrogant men, and all the causes they’re for”

    Billy Joel – Shades Of Grey

    And I always thought he was referring to religious men.
    Oh but he was!

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  • #
    Yonniestone

    Everyone has heard the old advice when on the receiving end of bullying “hit the biggest guy first and the rest will run”, well Brussels just got a blood nose.

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    • #
      gnome

      (For those who don’t know, “blood nose” is Victorian for “nosebleed” or “bleeding nose”. Not a typo.)

      81

      • #
        James Murphy

        It’s a South Australian expression too, unless I am very much mistaken, or unless I grew up in a strange bit of Adelaide, where it was (is) in common use.

        90

        • #
          gnome

          You may be on track. On reflection, it might be an Australian football expression (what they used to call Australian Rules and now call [shudder] AFL.)

          30

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          That is because you are not allowed to use the word, “bloody” in polite conversation … oops, I just did …

          50

          • #
            Duster

            Heh. My paternal grandparents were Canadian – my grandmother via England. I grew up in California speaking the American version of the language that separates so many nations. One my nose started to bleed and I walked in to my Grandmother’s kitchen saying to her that I had a “bloody nose,” which earned a clip up side the head from my generally genteel grandmother. It was years before I learned why.

            20

  • #

    I have been sceptical about this for 12 years.
    The most fascinating aspect about the hoax is that otherwise intelligent people believe it.
    The compelling reason, they quote is that 97% of scientists cannot be wrong.
    Immediately you know the only research they have done is watching the A.B.C.or M.S.M.
    I have lost close friends over this.
    The saddest part of this is now exposure of the great fraud will not bring them back.
    Being proven correct is a burden not a time for joy.
    People feel embaressed and annoyed and don’t want to be around you because it reminds them they were wrong.
    I suppose I have myself to blame in a way.
    I said to one of my highly educated and intelligent close friends in a moment of frustration that it was an I.Q.test.

    784

    • #
      el gordo

      Steve the truth is going to come as a great shock to millions of bright people, but if we approach the end times with humor we should win most of them back.

      Fortunately over these long hard years I have been forbidden to discuss the weather in polite society, because family and friends are all brainwashed, so all is well for me at least.

      They have adopted an air of indifference, which is unsustainable going forward. Everyone needs to know that our children have been force fed lies and this is a crime against humanity.

      Trump is my Trojan Horse, long live The Donald.

      563

      • #
        Geoffrey Williams

        El gordo I agree with your analysis and also your sentiment regarding famliy and friends. I think that part of the problem is people who have been brainwashed you just don’t know it. And of course no one wants to be thought of as naive or foolish. So that getting our argument across has to be a delicate exercise if we are not to put others offside.
        GeoffW

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        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          My family hasn’t spoken to me in years, and I have traveled extensively, so I have no close friends, anyway. But I am fine, and I live with my successes, and my failures, because they are mine, and nobody elses.

          So what is the problem? Seriously? If you can’t live with just yourself, and act on your own understanding of how the world works, then you don’t really have your own life. Once you realise that, you are free to choose who you want to be with, what you want to do, and how your life will progress. It is very liberating. More people should try it.

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          • #
            gnome

            I’m with you on this RW (at least partly). I can’t get away from family and friends; I even get on very well with all my neighbours, but being thought of as naïve or foolish suits me admirably. It’s what I do best and I take some pride in doing it well!

            (I have two nieces who are lawyers. They used to get on well when they were younger, but now at any family gathering they circle each other like a pair of fighting hens. Ahhhh- family.)

            81

          • #
            Neville

            Truer words never said … etc, Rereke!

            20

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘…has to be a delicate exercise if we are not to put others offside.’

          Indeed, best not speak on the subject until you are spoken to, it would be impolite not to answer.

          Your reply will be brief and well informed, a few short sentences sprinkled with whimsy should disarm any brainwashed opponent.

          81

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        I have a highly intelligent green voting relative ( oh the shame… ) who literally cant handle discussing donald trump…she literally will walk out of the room freaking out and incandescent with rage…..

        All I can think is its a form of mass hypnosis at work…if they strutted about clucking like chickens when you mention the donald, at least it would be entertaining, not physically threateneing….

        Such is the dementedness of the Leftist mind set….but you also extrapolate that and understand very clearly the leftists would have us in concentration camps quickly, if they could get away with it….Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler….

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      • #
        Dennis

        Brain washed by taxpayer funded organisations which is disgraceful. Noting the BoM false media releases not based on BoM historical record data, as admitted by management when the relevant minister demanded an inquiry following complaints received by him.

        The admission that led Prime Minister Abbott to suggest to cabinet that due diligence be conducted by independent auditors, rejected by a majority of his cabinet ministers, led by the now PM and some of his rebels.

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    • #
      Environment Skeptic

      The best thing i (Mike) did recently was to lift my game by my conversion to a more all encompassing skepticism being environmental skepticism which asks the question, ‘other than the weather/climate, what are other anthropogenic activities that are currently accelerating the destruction of life on earth as we know it? And why isn’t there any taxes or conventions to stop them and so on (Taxes on species destruction, logging of native forests which can never ever be replaced, taxes on chemical effluent and other taxes on harmful anthropogenic activity).

      Environmental skepticism asks, why are ‘climate change environmentalists’ not able to account for something easy like the prevention of deforestation and species habitat destruction?

      If something as mind numbingly basic as this cannot be stopped and is actually accelerating, how can environmentalism in general even hope to aspire to higher duties like controlling the climate??

      111

      • #
        Rod Stuart

        Trees don’t grow anymore?
        Virtually everyone agrees with your valid concern for the environment, but I can’t share your obsession with “native forest”.
        Trees are just like you and me. They grow, they get old. They die. They rejuvenate. What is a “native forest” supposed to be?

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        • #
          Lionell Griffith

          There is no such thing as a “native forest”. In the beginning there were no forests. Eventually, the forests grew and became coal. They were replaced by other kinds of trees which themselves died and were replaced many many times over the millions of years of forests.

          The problem is that the green blob objects to the earth being modified by men using their minds in order to make their lives better. Which means they object to man being man and insist that man live without using his mind to know, to choose, to plan, or direct his actions. He is to live as a mindless toad and act only upon their permission.

          Every other living creature modifies its environment to sustain its life and does so as part of the process of being alive. The necessary action is in accordance to whatever kind of creature it is. The same is true for man. To live he must be and act according to the kind of creature he is as well or he dies.

          The lower creatures have little to no choice in what they do. However, by the use of his mind, man has vastly larger range of choices. This range is widened by the fact that man can learn from each other both past and present. It is THIS fact that the green blob objects to the most.

          I have no problem if the members of the green blob want to live as a mindless toad. If they did, they would soon no longer be a problem. I do have a problem if they demand that I live as a toad. As far as I am concerned, they can take their plans, their permissions, their objections, and go away to the furthest reaches of their nonexistent alternate universe.

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          • #
            Rereke Whakaaro

            … by the use of his mind, man has vastly larger range of choices.

            That is true, but it is the use of language, and the means to communicate abstract thoughts that puts mankind into a category on it’s own.

            That is why the “the green blob” is desperate to control the language used to discuss ideas, and thus limit mankind’s ability to learn from the each other.

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          • #
            Mark D.

            A spectacular seasonal gift Lionell. I hope that everyone reads it!

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        • #
          Environment Skeptic

          Hmmmmm….A diverse native forest ecosystem is cleared and the inhabitants die and become extinct to the associated area, like a forest on a hill with a north facing aspect for example…..later……………………….. it is converted to plantation single species plantation… and yes you a right, trees can still grow, cloned pines and cloned gums.

          In todays age, to call this collection of a single species of cloned gums a “forest” is quite ok, It is even called “forestry” especially amongst the environmentalist that have recently been freshly baked more recently. In the last 15 years circa. This akin or like saying just because toe nails keep growing after death a human is still alive.

          “10 Bodily Functions That Continue After Death
          http://io9.gizmodo.com/5862418/10-bodily-functions-that-continue-after-death
          The life of a forest ecosystem might be millions of years. The life of that collection/ecosystem of cells that comprise the human body are a few hundred tops.

          21

        • #
          Dennis

          Maybe a large group of tinted garden gnomes in a bushland location?

          30

      • #
        Geoffrey Williams

        I aggree with you. There are so many real issues out there that are messing up the planet and need to be tackled; eg waste and household rubbish to name just one.
        GeoffW

        50

      • #
        Hasbeen

        What utter garbage

        We now have hundreds of thousands of hectares of once semi cleared productive grazing land where the owners are refused a permit to clear the “VERGIN” forest that is actually regrowth on pasture the younger generation of farmers/graziers were too slack to maintain.

        I have spent 25 years watching a neighbours 10,000 acre grazing paddock across the river to me, turn to useless scrub. We used to train our eventers for the cross country jumping phase in that paddock, but now much of it is too thick with trees & scrub to be ridden through at more than a walk. You would be torn to pieces by the branches.

        The now protected as pristine, Murray river red gum forests were open park type land, due to aboriginal burning, at white settlement, with rarely a red gum to be seen.

        Do try a little research before making grandiose statements.

        100

        • #
          Environment Skeptic

          seems to me what you are talking about is an ecosystem that is disrupted and becomes prone to a single species overtaking it where once the diversity of species kept this kind of cancer from happening.

          Change something, and everything else changes. It does not matter if the intentions are good or not.

          Here in Victoria Kikuyu lawn grass is swallowing up the understory of remnant Aussie vegetation on roadsides for example. The Aussie vegetation does quite well at holding onto its existence, but it only needs to be slashed once to allow the super fast growing lawn grasses and introduced species to choke the slow growing Australian species of grasses like Kangaroo grass and Wallaby grass. and other super slow growing plants like xanthoria grass tree

          I have done a lot of regeneration of remnant native vegetation and can assure you the problems encountered are compounded by introduced species, and like you said, the absence of burning from time to time which really helps regeneration and keeps a lot of weeds species in tight check.

          Most of the so called wild fires are due to weeds being the fuel and the presence of immature forests that allow the fire to get into the canopy Around Gippsland where i live, it was the immature plantation forest gums that caught fire and went ballistic igniting the Morwel coal mine.

          I remain an environment skeptic about the issue of what is being done to understand the environment in general better, and am even often skeptical of my own understanding in certain areas.

          52

      • #
        MudCrab

        …why isn’t there any taxes… Taxes on species destruction, logging of native forests which can never ever be replaced, taxes on chemical effluent and other taxes on harmful anthropogenic activity

        Tax? You keep using that word. Somehow I don’t think it means what you think it means. You may wish to re-word your argument.

        Think about it. Do we have speeding fines or a speeding tax?

        40

    • #
      Environment Skeptic

      “The most fascinating aspect about the hoax is that otherwise intelligent people believe it.
      The compelling reason, they quote is that 97% of scientists cannot be wrong.”

      The most compassionate thing to do is to merely ask them, how do we move on and do the easy things like prevention of logging, prevention of war, cessation of land clearing, stopping further species extinction, the ‘to do list/bucket list is huge.

      55

      • #
        Lionell Griffith

        I have no compassion for those who believe in nonsense and who require that I too believe in their nonsense.

        Your bucket list IS huge and full of holes. We cannot stop further species extinction. Stopping war is as simple as everyone earning their keep while neither expecting nor demanding the unearned and to live and let live. The rest of your bucket list appears to be preventing man form modifying his environment. Which means he cannot do that which is necessary for living and thriving.

        In total, your bucket list is quite contrary to the life of even though you think it a noble cause. If you choose to live, you MUST make use of and modify your environment. You must use your mind to learn, choose, plan, and initiate the necessary actions to continue living. The alternative is death. Or, as some believe they can get away with, become a parasite and live off the lives of others. Out of which conflict and wars grow.

        You cannot have both sides of a contradiction. It is one or the other or neither 100% of the time. This no matter how many believe otherwise nor how much they feel the cause is noble.

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        • #
          Environment Skeptic

          many a holy bucket have become watertight again after the process of plugging leaks is started. One hole at a time, with a generous helping of good will.

          Species extinction does not happen all at once.,.. it happens bit by bit usually. First one forest is stripped of an entire group of species, then another. Geographically a species will be extinct in one region or area and then another.In one forest, and then another, especially if the entire forest is felled….. Bit by bit. Or one hole in the species bucket and then another hole in the species bucket.

          Eventually, in the contemporary environmental mindset which i am skeptical of, there will be those who will argue that just because there are still two Panda’s in the zoo or one Tasmanian tiger left that it is on account of this noble effort to have a cage to protect it that the species is not extinct yet. The last drop in a bucket,

          Of course a little more than having a cage and one noble zoo attendant is necessary.

          My vision is for increasing the number of zoo attendants in open air forest zoos that could earn their keep by weeding, and trapping feral cats and so on. All the while…. a few farmers could program their tractors to plant wheat using automation so that the unemployed could help in the outdoor forest zoo and help clean up thus many would have full time jobs again…

          Yet others could study what is left on the planet, biologists and so forth, to earn their keep, and try to correct environmental disasters and so on.

          There would be little need for people to work in factories due to robotics and having machines to perform menial tasks.. and so on…

          13

          • #
            Environment Skeptic

            “Or, as some believe they can get away with, become a parasite and live off the lives of others. Out of which conflict and wars grow.”

            ……. let the parasitic factory robots and parasitic automated farm equipment that have taken our jobs keep doing what they are doing, so we can save what is left of the environment that has been looking after us for many millions of years.

            Call it ‘Reciprocal Maintenance’ if you like.

            13

            • #
              Lionell Griffith

              I see. You believe in the Divine Right of Stagnation within which nothing is ever to change. Especially the contents of your beliefs.

              I apologize for challenging you with a true statement about the nature of reality and the requirements for humans to continue to live. Go back to sleep. I will bother you no more.

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      • #
        Duster

        We do not need to prevent logging. It has to be better managed though, and sloppy, inappropriate industrial-ag practices like monoculture should be banned. Likewise, we can’t “stop further species extinctions.” Typical species longevity is roughly 2 MY. They come, they survive, they go. We have caused some extinctions, but in all likelihood far fewer than we are taking credit for. At the same time, current data suggests we have many millions of species yet to discover including even some large land mammals – deer sized and smaller.

        If you take a really long view, the present is most similar in atmosphere and planetary climate averages to the Permian. What that means is that green plant life is stressed due to the low levels of C02 available. Life is absolutely dependent on CO2. Green plants find oxygen toxic in excess. An enomous extinct event really is in the cards, but while humans might exacerbate the process, life itself is the cause. Living systems “fix” carbon faster than natural sources replace it. There is no “carbon cycle.” The process is more like a downward spiral. The low carbon levels and weakened biological diversity of the late Permian did not recover until well into the Triassic.

        Estimates of CO2 during the last glacial indicate that green plants were barely maintaining primary production. Desertification of many areas was in all probability due to inadequate carbon rather that inadequate rainfall. The satellite-based observation of the effects of carbon fertilization have been reported from numerous marginal desert regions including those of Australia. Simply emitting more CO2 may actually be reducing extinction rates.

        10

    • #
      Lawrie

      I am old enough now to not give a tinkers cuss if someone feels bad because I told them the truth a decade ago. I wasn’t worried then and even less now. Many of my relatives drank the cool aid and they are all professional people. Strangely my relatives who are self employed, tradesmen or simply “uneducated” were always dubious of the “science” and most said it was crap. Gullible is the only descriptor that applies to the believers.

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      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        Many of my relatives drank the cool aid and they are all professional people.

        Professional people have to go through a rigorous learning process, in order to gain a diploma that demonstrates that they have been through a rigorous learning process in a defined discipline.

        It is a right of passage, that other Professionals recognise, and generally respect.

        It is considered to be extremely bad form, for a Professional in one discipline, to challenge the opinions of Professionals in other disciplines.

        For some reason, that I don’t understand, Climate “Scientists” nee “Computer Modellers”, are seen as being professionals (so I always spell it with a small “p”).

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        • #
          Yonniestone

          I’ve found a lot of professional types feel obliged to overthink things, where stepping back and simplifying tasks leads to faster progress and a solution or not.

          40

    • #
      Ron Cook

      Steve Mc

      “I have lost close friends over this.
      The saddest part of this is now exposure of the great fraud will not bring them back.
      Being proven correct is a burden not a time for joy.”

      Ditto

      R-COO- K+

      61

    • #
      Terence

      Before AGW became the ‘in’ thing, people were already being conditioned into believing life just ‘couldn’t go on the way it was’. There were ‘too many people on the planet using too many resources’. Then came the global cooling scare of the early ’70s which was nowhere near as overhyped but perhaps could/should have been. Peculiarly, there was no noticeable mention of a prior ‘warming globe’ at all at that time and cooling is something to be more feared.

      The next thing we got was in the early ’80s. The message was suddenly all about warming and the real hysterics began. The payoff for the environmental movement was the people had already been genned up, had a feeling something had to ‘give’ and this scare campaign fell on fertile soil. People got ‘confirmation’ that their premonitions were right. They almost wanted to believe so, as I saw it; they were easy targets for the 97% scientists ‘agree’ campaign and they had no interest in debating that point. The general public would think sceptics were backward because sceptics just defied the logic that something had to go wrong with so many people inhabiting the planet and destroying forests and habitats.

      The biggest shock I got – and my science knowledge is present but limited – was people that even had some knowledge of how the scientific method worked were in total denial of the levels of proof required to establish effect and cause. How could real scientists fall so willingly into this game? How could politicians decide the scientific result? How could scientific debate between equals (or ‘betters’) be curtailed by political decree and populism? How could science become ‘politics’? How could the world reverse the development of 500years of scientific progress so we nearly reached the stage of witchcraft with some people almost demanding a figurative burning at the stake of the heretics or doing away with democracy – which on reflection is virtually the stage this ‘tenet’ has reached?

      If all Trump succeeds in doing is to re establish the scientific method and let science sort the facts by
      real proofs and argument via the pure scientific method then he will have restored normality to human progress. He needs to ditch the unscientific hangers on who have distorted science, using it as a political tool to enforce their own ideas of what the world should be, who runs it and how.

      Worse are the monied carpet baggers that have used everybody to make a big buck; they will be the loudest and most powerful group that Trump will have to handle. They may even include some of his best friends and associates. We have already seen them in action here when Abbott did his best to dump the Climate change bodies set up by Labor. It will require heroic strength to remove the public funding, subsidizations and penalty costs of this movement, because huge $B losses are going to be taken by those involved in pushing the energy status quo and certificate dealings. This will be a total mess to unwind and the banks may become big losers if they have committed borrowed funds to the cause.

      71

  • #

    It always gets down to the money.

    President Elect Trump isn’t about to waste money on a fools errand. Initially, the Trump administration will focus it’s efforts on unleashing the American economy. This means lowering taxes and rescinding burdensome and unecessary regulations as well as minimizing waste. There will be no money for the climate cabal. However, there will be much wailing and grinding of teeth as the left tried to determine its next shakedown operation.

    It always gets down to rhe money.

    622

  • #
    John RT

    14 July 2016: Independent reports PM Theresa May moved ‘climate change’ to Business department.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change-department-killed-off-by-theresa-may-in-plain-stupid-and-deeply-worrying-move-a7137166.html.
    USA follows GB / UK and Australia, in setting priorities and assessing use of resources.
    Thank you.

    50

  • #
    Glen Michel

    For all people who have questioned the veracity of this science these are interesting developments.We are not pursuing a contrary line just for its own sake – rather we have assessed the science and found that it did not comply.This may be a great turnaround and the ramifications will be great.Maybe we will be able to use that F…D word again!

    342

    • #
      Eric Simpson

      As far as the (politicized) “science” this is what will make the whole AGW thesis be a joke:

      There’s solid evidence that the 1930s were hotter worldwide then today.

      First, realize this:

      There’s no argument about this: the 1930s were hotter in the USA than now.

      Note that in 1999 NASA’s James Hansen agreed:
      “It is clear that [in the USA] 1998 did not match the record warmth of 1934.”
      Plus … in 1978 (before data manipulations)… the US National Academy of Sciences showed the Northern Hemisphere to be hotter:
      http://realclimatescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Screenshot-2016-01-31-at-05.15.34-AM.png

      The Northern Hemisphere makes up 64% of the earth’s land.
      Plus, the Southern Hemisphere was relatively sparse at the time as far as thermometer placement.
      And in the 1930s the USA by far had the most extensive reliable set of ground thermometers compared to the rest of the world. So, the temperatures in the rest of the world were probably, in the 1930s, more like the USA and the Northern Hemisphere.

      Another point, two days ago Judith Curry reported that the USA had much more hot days then today:
      https://curryja.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/figure1.png

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  • #
    RobK

    Thank you Jo,
    I share your optimism, lets hope we are right.
    “There is a crack in everything, that’s how the light get in.”
    -Leonard Cohen.
    (p.s.minor typo start of second sentence, “the” s/b “they”?).

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  • #
    grahamd

    And in the mean time we are trying to get the message across to some very Dumb Australian politicians, the cream they most certainly are not, living on it, they most certainly are. So far behind in their knowledge or understand of the latest climate science, and completely besotted by the latest one sided news from the two aunties-BBC and ABC, they lack the basic ability to follow the science themselves, and even more disturbing, there has been a rapid change on the European political scene regarding this issue , trends in this debate the majority would not even be aware of, and thank once again to our pathetic, myopic, ABC and their totally unbalanced, biased reporting .

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  • #
    tom0mason

    As the cold covers 48 states and winter low temperature records are being broken all over the place, people must be reminded that 2016 is officially (according to NASA) the hottest year ever! And remind them that somehow global warming causes snow but no-one can properly explain it. Somehow burning fuel moves the jet-stream, etc, etc.

    Add the line “NASA says 2016 — hottest year ever”, to greeting cards, and emails.

    This winter is a gift! Use it!

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  • #
    David Maddison

    Are there any figures by country concerning the amount of money that has been diverted from otherwise productive uses to “green energy” programs or would it be too complicated and difficult to come up with such an estimate?

    172

  • #
    John Milne

    The one question I haven’t seen asked of the ‘religion’ is; With the large variance of temperature over the last 10,000 years, what temperature is the world supposed to be?
    Even if the planet is getting warmer (with no clear evidence it is) or getting cooler who gets to decide what is the optimum temperature for the planet? Because that is all it boils down to is one group claiming that temperature movement either up, or down from a few years ago is a bad thing,….why? Particularly when change has been happening for ever.

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    • #
      Ken Lloyd

      Thanks, John, that’s the very question that’s puzzled me for years. What, exactly, is the “optimum” climate??

      70

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        What, exactly, is the “optimum” climate?

        One that requires you to pay lots of money, in order to achieve.

        70

  • #
    ianl8888

    So the reconstituted US EPA starts requiring that difficult questions be answered in public, no fudging. It will be joyous to watch the “We do not debate in public” defence challenged. This is the most irritating avoidance technique and watching it being trashed will be fun, I admit.

    BUT, and a big but, will the MSM report it at all, let alone with any honesty ? To ask that question is to answer it. No matter how much the meeja has been exposed, most of the population still receive 99% of their “information” through it.

    The last 6 weeks has shown that disseminating Fake News is still the meeja’s preferred tactic to regain lost power.

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      sophocles

      You’re right. Watching the EPA trying to answer questions is going to be highly entertaining.

      The MSM will probably regard that as an untouchable subject unless they discover it will sell more news. Telling the public they were being misled by the very news organisations they turned to for answers is going to take some very brave editors and I don’t think they exist.

      Too many of their journalists and editorial staff are hopelessly ill-educated in science and technology as they show in most articles published about science of almost any sort. About all they can do is spell “science” correctly.

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        Rereke Whakaaro

        I think you are right, in that the media will try to make it an untouchable subject … until somebody blinks, and breaks ranks.

        Then it will all be on, as the various media outlets fight and jostle each other to “get the real truth out there”.

        Of course, once they have jumped off that particular cliff, there will be no going back.

        20

  • #
    Gorgiasl

    O/T but I can’t help myself.

    Noticed this quote from a UK Met Office spokesman in the Evening Standard a few days ago:

    He said: “It has been unseasonably average for this time of year but from Monday it will get colder with places in the south-east averaging about 7C.”

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  • #
    KinkyKeith

    The money used to “combat” CAGW was not wasted.

    It went somewhere very specifically targeted and was gratefully received.

    Put another way; It was channeled to specific locations on the basis of deliberate misrepresentation.

    CAGW, the Emperor, has NO SCIENCE!

    The “little boy” is at last, going to be heard.

    It feels good.

    KK

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    • #
      tom0mason

      But, but,

      They say their model follow the laws of physics…

      So they are right?

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      • #
        tom0mason

        No!

        Because they do not know and can not work out how all these ‘laws’ are tied together. They can not predict nature’s surprising progress any more than we can predict volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, or the next outbreak of flu.

        The models may follow known physical laws but unless ALL variables are known and linked together in the proper dynamic manner they can never reflect nature. All the links are not known, the resolution is always limited. At best the models may poorly reflect what has happened, following natural events *NOT* predicting them.

        Current climate models are a fantastic, expensive, and ultimately futile exercise in mathematical manipulations.

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        • #
          KinkyKeith

          That’s it Tomo, all inputs and outputs must be quantified and known before you can even begin to put a model together.

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          • #
            jorgekafkazar

            Sooner or later, you’ll find a variable for which we have no algorithm, and you’ll have to use empirical information, install a table or other work-around. That’s when the model starts to unravel internally.

            30

  • #

    2017 should be a very entertaining year.

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  • #
    sophocles

    May you live in interesting times. — ancient curse. This time, it seems to be a curse for just a few.

    The Sun’s activity continues to decline. We’re now only 14 years +/- away from another postulated Maunder Minimum, which has been muttered about for the last two decades. (Could this be the start of the end of the Holocene Interstadial? Well, I won’t be around to see, but it’s a thought.)
    Is the world ready for it? Of course not. Why is Russia so interested in the Ukraine? The “bread basket” of Europe? There are no prizes for guessing the correct answer. As the weather worsens, for those basking in the “warmest years ever” it’s going to seem to come out of nowhere. No: cold is not what comes from warming, it comes after warming.

    But but but, 2013 2014 last this year was the hottest year ever! Weather is like the Sun. It’s cyclic. Get used to it. After the warmth comes the cold. Always. The Northern Hemisphere has been having its warnings over the last ten years with unseasonal and some might say “extreme” snow and ice and some very cold winters. From this year on, is it going to get worse?
    Is 2017 going to be the end of ” the hottest year ever” nonsense? Will it trigger a RICO lawsuit?
    Will the Arctic re-freeze, and if so, will Antarctica warm? How will the Southern Hemisphere respond? We will know by June/July.
    And will this blog’s pet Astroturfers disappear? Or will they stay around to afford us many more hours of amusement and entertainment?

    South Australia has added significantly to the alternative generation grid management problems. How will the State Government respond? How will the people react? Revolution is most unlikely … but …

    Wind Farms are running into legal trouble and strong headwinds in Ireland.
    Germany is, well, a big accident looking for somewhen to happen.
    Lord Monckton cheerfully announced he’s found the mistake/error in the IPCC’s maths and their AGW scare is dead. I’ll be watching for the paper.
    Trump takes up the reins of power in less than a month. (His appointments must be terrifying for the parasites. Will Gavin be looking for a new job?)

    In preparation for this overwhelming promise of interesting times, I’ve given the Lay-Z-Boy a clean and a re-grease, beer stocks have been topped up and are good.
    Ah, popcorn. Must lay in lots more popcorn. There isn’t enough left to cater for the coming circus.

    Yep. life is going to be interesting, all right.

    It’s going to be very interesting. :-) :-)

    And I’m all set to enjoy it to the max …

    Oh yes: Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all those who celebrate these. :-)

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      David Maddison

      Now that much of the world is dependent upon large amounts of expensive and unreliable windmills and solar, it won’t cope well with the forthcoming cooling.

      We need to start putting the idea out there that there will be Nuremberg-style trials for all those that willfully propogated the lie of CAGW and also falsely claimed to be using the scientific method to justify their claims.

      Their enormous crimes (deaths due to energy poverty, stopping the development of the third world, decline in standard of living for Westerners, holding back industrial progress of the West, widespread corruption of science, massive diversion of economic resources, massive borrowing) must not be allowed to go unpunished.

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        sophocles

        David said:

        We need to start putting the idea out there that there will be Nuremberg-style trials for all those that willfully propogated the lie of CAGW and also falsely claimed to be using the scientific method to justify their claims.

        It’s a tempting idea, but I don’t think the time is right for it just yet. We have to weather this storm first.

        Perhaps the warmists own language needs to be turned back on them? Who are the real deniers?

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        • #
          James Hein

          In the past year I have been calling them, to their faces, “Science Deniers” though I am quite partial to the term “Climate Astrologers” that Mr Morano likes to use.

          I also like to watch their faces when I explain that the original 97% claim is based on 77 people.

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        • #
          Fantail

          Just watch. If it does start to cool markedly, the same people supporting catastrophic global warming will turn up spruiking catastrophic global cooling. The media doesn’t care. It just wants a good end-of-days story to sell advertising. The climate priests just want a catastrophe to lead followers from (and make a buck in the process) and the followers in search of catastrophe and a religion (and a cause to pay into) will willfully follow along.

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          • #
            David Maddison

            Fantail, if there is global cooling I think the science deniers will simply revise their homogenised data so they can continue to claim we are living in the hottest period eeevvvuuuhhh, despite the fact we are frozen in ice.

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        • #
          Fantail

          I’m sure Jo, Anthony Watts, Judith Curry, Marc Morano, Tony Heller, et al., have been giving thought to their future after the global warming scare goes away. A global cooling scare by the same outlaws will keep the sceptics active.

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      • #
        StefanL

        Add to their enormous crimes: growing food to turn it into biofuel.

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      sophocles:
      The fuller version is “May you live in interesting times (1) and may you come to the attention of the authorities (2)”.

      i.e. (1) interesting to historians from things like famine, floods, invasion, massacres and revolutions.
      and (2) because you will be considered guilty regardless of facts, and open to punishment or having to pay fines to avoid such.

      Trump as POTUS will certainly provide interesting news, and if he brings the leaders of the AGW scam to the attention of the authorities that would be even better. It might even cause our dumb politicians (State & Federal) to change tack.

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        ianl8888

        It might even cause our dumb politicians (State & Federal) to change tack

        Not while they can hide behind “CSIRO consensus”, unhappily.

        Even if the “no debate in public” setup is broken open, any real change to the mindset of Noble Cause Corruption will take some considerable time. And the MSM will fight it all the way with everything they have.

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      • #
        sophocles

        Graeme No. 3

        Part 2 is exactly why I have the domestic beer and popcorn supplies within personal reach. It minimises travel and consequently any risk of being noticed by the authorities. :-)

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        • #
          gnome

          What pops the corn? Is it CO2?

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          • #
            sophocles

            gnome asked:

            What pops the corn? Is it CO2?

            No, it’s internally contained water. Popcorn is a special race/species/variety/whatever of corn. It’s the only variety of corn whose kernels pop. It contains a tiny amount of liquid water inside a hull in the kernel. It’s this turning to steam when the kernel is heated that explodes it all.

            So Popcorn is real 19th century stuff: powered by Steam.

            Adding a bit of fresh Best New Zealand Butter after it’s all popped (captured sun shine :-) ) to the pan and shaking it up to work the butter in after it’s melted, is a real treat for the tastebuds but isn’t at all friendly to the waistline. Ah, what the heck, that just means a 5k walk every day instead of a 2k one :-)

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            • #
              Goodness

              Sophocles……….you have NOT been keeping up to date with “the science of eating” !!
              You MUST get some more information from Dr Michael Mosley ( TV Series ‘Trust me , I’m a doctor ‘ ) about beautiful BUTTER ! There is evidence that eating it ( and dairy foods containing Margaric Acid …NOT to be confused with dreadful Margarine !! ) is associated with a LOWER RISK OF HEART DISEASE . Sugars and ‘carbs’ are the problem along with ‘trans fats’it seems.
              So , have your pop-corn oozing with butter , suck the butter off the pop-corn and then spit out the nasty carbohydrate bit ( the pop corn ). This should counteract the “fattening effect” BUT it could mean you have less companions !.

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  • #
    Svend Ferdinandsen

    I hope it all could be based on more real science and facts. The only problem is that we have been fed with the “climate change” monster, so any change in climate is in the Pavlov way connected to CO2, and by some strange teleconnection to global warming.
    20 years of brainwash takes some time to wipe out.

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    TedM

    How I pray for this top be true. However I fear that the depths of deception and manipulation to which the global warming bed wetters and eco loons can sink, is yet to be realised. We can wish for the much anticipated cooling period to come sooner than expected and to be much greater than expected. A sort of mega Gore effect.

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    helen

    Thank you Jo. Happy Christmas to all your friends at this blog

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    David Maddison

    It is very pleasing to be on this blog with so many intelligent and knowledgeable people. Thank you for your company.

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    David S

    Two things would quickly bring the AGW scam to a quick end. 1 . The equivalent of a Royal Commission to investigate the science involved in the whole movement . Not a lame duck one like that which investigated the climate gate leaks. 2. Legislate whistleblower provisions for people who know where fraud in this area has taken place. Watch how quickly warmists will turn on each other if they get either a financial benefit or can save their own skin.

    These two measures would help to accelerate any collapse as the compliant media ( which in some quarters may be implicated) could not avoid reporting these events.

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    Anton

    I hope you are right Jo. There are people who collectively outrank even the future President Trump. No, I’m not talking Bilderberger-type conspiracy, but I *am * talking about the financial elites. If you read Jim Rickards’ new book “The Road to Ruin” you’ll see how the elites know very well that the world financial system is in a more parlous state than before 2008 and will crash. It has reached this state not through conspiracy but through its own complexity and the accumulated selfish decisions of bankers and politicians. Rickards’ views of the politics of the great reset that he predicts are not my subject here, but he does say that the IMF will dole out SDRs (Strategic Drawing Rights) to nations, provided that some of it is spent on climate change mitigation. Climate Change has been repeatedly mentioned as an IMF priority. And the USA will need SDRs too as it is so heavily indebted. Indeed the US dollar might well cease to be the world’s reserve currency (in favour of the SDR). Gloomy prognostications…

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    • #
      tom0mason

      The big problem is that all these currencies are fiat money. There is very little of real worth behind these currencies, they exist only because of the trust between nations. Trust that the nominal value stated on them is real(for a given exchange rate), and therefore can be used as a means of exchange and for trade by formal agreement. Confidence in a nation’s government and it currency by international institutions (and so by extension other nation’s confidence), the ability to regulate the liquidity of the currency, and the national and international trust in its value is all there is. Mostly it relies on confidence and trust. Take either one away and there it a crisis.

      Given that, if the crash comes and it is deep enough then black market trading and informal exchange of goods and services will rule. If that becomes the main method of trade within and between nations then unless elites have something to trade (that others want) they will be seen as useless and worthless. Yes, they may have today’s riches but trade will go down market and down stream, to a place where the elites have very little leverage. When you’re staring into the abyss and starvation looms, you don’t need gold, TVs, phones, unconvertible money, etc., you need food.

      So the IMF is playing a dirty game, and one that could easily back-fire, as any informal agreement between nations that relies on just exchange but not currency, breaks the IMF’s hold rendering it unnecessary!
      Look at what happened to Iceland and the way the IMF were not able to dictate terms here. The Icelandic government did the best to protect Icelandic citizens by effectively cancelling so much international debt by declaring the international trading banks bankrupt (Landsbanki and Glitnir), and liquidating them. How much of their debt did Iceland pay back? Not much. Today much of the international community views Iceland as a success in overcoming its major economic fall.

      Also see https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2015/11/15/china-sdrs-world-debt-unwinds-part-1/ for a more in depth look at the subject.

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      • #
        Anton

        Your principal point, which is that fiat money is a con, I agree with. Precious metals are not fiat money, however; they emerged spontaneously long ago as the people’s choice of exchange medium, whereas fiat currency is the government’s choice and represents the nationalisation of money. There has been a world currency for centuries, namely precious metals; what the IMF is after is a one-world fiat currency.

        Fiat currency is definitively debunked in JG Hulsmann’s book The Ethics of Money Production.

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    • #
      Rod Stuart

      Anton
      I believe your premise to be correct. I have read a great deal on the issue over the last fifty years, and have not read the book to which you refer.
      However, Rickards seems to me to be the Tim Flannelpants of the topic.
      False predictions, and claims that he is allowed to share “secretes” obtained while working for the CIA and the Pentagon are a big turn-off for me.
      However, there can be no doubt that a financial calamity is in the offing that will affect everyone. The difficult question has to do with appropriate preparation for the event. It seems to me that Rickards has cashed in on that need and is running with it, much like Flannelpants did with “The Weathermakers”.

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      • #
        Anton

        Certainly I get bored with Rickards talking in his books about the menu at the restaurants where he says he wines and dines some of the big players. Also nobody has a monopoly of truth about economics. But his core point is right, and is the one I made originally. Not many people say it. So he deserves praise, not the opposite.

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  • #
    el gordo

    ‘I predict a high likelihood of substantial collapse of the global warming movement, both domestically and internationally, over the course of the next couple of years.’

    Francis Menton
    —————

    This is a fair assessment and I think a clear change in the weather will be the driving force.

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    pat

    all very true…but try telling that to theirABC and Tim Buckley (does he live in the ABC studios?)

    woke up to media darling, Tim Buckley, saying Adani mine was now a “stranded asset” – am sure the many thousands of Queensland families who hope to directly & indirectly benefit from the mine will be happy to hear this from ABC in Christmas week!

    19 Dec: ABC AM: Stephen Long: India announces plan to step away from coal, casting doubt on approved Queensland Adani mine
    India has released a new power plan promoting a dramatic increase in renewable energy and raising doubts about the Indian-owned Adani Group’s massive coal mine in Queensland.
    The new national electricity plan says India will not need any additional coal-fired energy capacity in the next decade…
    Tim Buckley from the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analytics told AM the development was bad news for the Australian coal industry.
    “They [India] say that they have 50 gigawatts of coal-fired power plants under construction already, so it’s far better to complete those than write them off as stranded assets,” he said.
    “But no new coal-fired plants in India in the next decade.”
    Mr Buckley said the plan had left the Adani proposal “totally stranded”…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-19/india's-plan-to-step-away-from-coal-casts-doubt-on-adani-mine/8131240

    AUDIO: 19 Dec: ABC AM: India’s new renewable energy goals increase doubts about Adani coal mine
    As Stephen Long reports, the energy plan raises fresh doubts about a massive coal mine that India’s Adani Group wants to build in Queensland.
    Featured:
    Josh Frydenberg, Environment Minister
    Tim Buckley, director at the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analytics
    Piyush Goyal, India’s Energy Minister
    http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2016/s4594466.htm

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    • #
      el gordo

      India is the third largest coal producer in the world, they don’t particularly need our coal.

      There appears to be an under utilization of capacity, which puts coal plants under financial pressure, so the move to renewables seems a cheaper way to go.

      The big problem for the Indian government is land acquisition and building structures to capture sun and wind.

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    • #
      gnome

      You mean Tim Buckley (??) desperately saying the Adani mine is a stranded asset.

      The stranded asset meme is looking frayed, even to believers, now that fossil fuel prices are rising again and fossil fuel investments are looking profitable again.

      20

  • #
    TdeF

    What is tragic is that an unprecendented 70 years of world peace since ww2 have resulted in $1,000,000,000 a year wasted chasing illogical scares created by the profiteers of doom. Previous societies have had their opportunists, their war mongers, their bankers and their religious nutters but nothing on this scale.

    So when the next drought comes, when the next ice age comes, how much better will we be prepared with our solar farms and wind farms in the richest countries only?

    What has been done to find a new material for combustion, a metal perhaps? What has been done to advance Fusion, a source so powerful we could live without the sun? What has been done to advance mankind in any way with these trillions?

    WW2 and the arms race/space race had profound impact on our quality of life. So too the consequent consumer society, microwaves, jet engines, antibiotics, the human genome and the telephone, itself a rarity in the mid 1950s. The PC and its progeny from tablets to smart phones, a CPU in every device.

    What will the world do with 300,000 windmills containing 100,000 tons of heavy metal and old broken solar panels in the desert, again full of heavy metals which would have been banned from the environment except they were exempted to save the environment.

    No, nothing good has come from this and in far away irrelevant Australia, the People Against Everything still push their end of world Climate Scientology while the usual actors in Hollywood still crusade pointlessly against Global Warming and Donald Trump and rational science. What a rotten shame. So much good could have been done.

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    • #
      TdeF

      Imagine if 0.1% of that money was spent developing an engine which burned aluminum? One billion dollars. Or the money spent on 350 CSIRO Climate Scientists for five years. We could have done this in Australia. Instead we achieved nothing. As usual.

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    • #
      gnome

      Only a billion dollars year?? If only!
      That’s how much New Zealand or Nepal waste. Real economies waste multiples of that (Sorry RW.)

      20

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    Peter

    In order to overcome the massive amounts dis information the leading proponents of this scam many people will need to have their own claims challenged under oath. They will need to be subject to cross examination, and they will need to justify their arguments and if unable to justify them, then state for the record that they will not or can not. While this does not make it impossible for them to start making false claims again, it does make it more difficult.

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    pat

    memo to Tim Buckley & ABC:

    12 Dec: NewIndianExpress: India’s Coal Demand to see Biggest Growth Globally – IEA
    India (coal demand) will see an annual average growth rate of 5 per cent by 2021 even as demand peaks in the world’s top consumer, China, the Paris-based body said in a report. India’s coal output rose 5.1 per cent last year, it said…
    But much of Asia will remain hooked on coal which, while polluting, is also affordable and widely available, IEA said…
    There will be strong growth in demand in Asian countries such as India, Vietnam and Indonesia, where “coal-based electricity is one of the preferred options to increase power generation,” IEA said. Smaller importers like Pakistan, Turkey and Malaysia will also drive demand…
    But the big unknown is China, which accounts for half of the world’s demand for coal and almost half of its production, “and more than any other country influences global coal prices”…
    The report also pointed out that despite last year’s Paris Agreement to fight climate change, “there is no major impetus to promote the development of carbon capture and storage technology”.
    http://www.newindianexpress.com/business/2016/dec/12/indias-coal-demand-to-see-biggest-growth-globally-iea-1548302.html

    Dec 2016: IEA: Medium-Term Coal Market Report 2016 (LINKS TO REPORT)
    Coal demand growth to stall as appetite wanes, according to IEA
    The new report highlights the continuation of a major geographic shift in the global coal market towards Asia. In 2000, about half of coal demand was in Europe and North America, while Asia accounted for less than half. By 2015, Asia accounted for almost three-quarters of coal demand, while coal consumption in Europe and North America had declined sharply below one quarter. This shift will accelerate in the next years, according to the IEA…
    Because it is relatively affordable and widely available, coal remains the world’s number one fuel for generating electricity, producing steel and making cement…
    “Coal demand is moving to Asia, where emerging economies with growing populations are seeking affordable and secure energy sources to power their economies”…
    In the United States, coal consumption dropped by 15% in 2015, precipitated by competition from cheap natural gas, cheaper renewable power – notably wind – and regulations to reduce air pollutants that led to coal plant retirements. This was the largest annual decline ever, reaching levels not seen in more than three decades. Another substantial decline is expected in 2016. Looking ahead, the IEA forecasts a 1.6% per year decline, much slower than 6.2% decline over the past five years, as higher gas prices result in less coal-to-gas switching…
    The report also points out that despite the Paris Agreement there is no major impetus to promote the development of carbon capture and storage technology.
    https://www.iea.org/newsroom/news/2016/december/medium-term-coal-market-report-2016.html

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      sophocles

      The report Pat Quoted said:

      there is no major impetus to promote the development of carbon capture and storage technology.

      What a stupid thought. Of course there isn’t a major impetus. There shouldn’t be any impetus at all.

      Nature provides these magic Carbon Sequestration And Storage Units by the billions.

      We call them Trees.

      They have the major advantages of being self-contained, self-directd, very low maintenance, self-starting, self-manufacturing, thoroughly reliable, and have a huge range of other uses. They’re so reliable and flexible you can tell no human was involved in their design.

      40

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        And they burn well, too.

        In the autumn we prune our trees, and burn the prunings, to stack up the CO2 for absorption in the next growing season.

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    pat

    Mathiessen also spins the story, naturally, but note the shift to more renewable energy is reliant on ***finance and technology sharing from wealthier countries. the prospect of that happening is even more remote now than it was before Trump was elected, when it was already a zero possibility:

    16 Dec: ClimateChangeNews: Karl Mathiesen: India to halt building new coal plants in 2022
    Draft government plan finds no need for new coal stations beyond those already under construction, calls for massive renewable energy push
    The plan, released by the Central Electricity Authority (CEA) for public consultation, makes no room for further generation capacity beyond the 50GW coal fleet that is under construction…
    The plan (LINK – 375 page PDF) covers two five-year periods beginning in 2017 and 2022. The first period allows for the completion of those plants already being built. But after that, the CEA is planning for zero new thermal power generation before 2027.

    “As coal based capacity of 50,025MW [50GW] is already under construction which is likely to yield benefits during 2017-22, this coal based capacity would fulfil the capacity requirement for the years 2022-27,” the plan said.
    At the same time, the report aims to add 100GW of solar and wind…

    Narendra Modi’s government has promised to get 40% of its electricity from non-fossil sources (renewable and nuclear) by 2030, with ***finance and technology sharing from wealthier countries…

    According to Greenpeace, there is roughly ***178GW of additional thermal coal power in various stages of planning in India. But the CEA plan makes no room for most of that to progress until at least 2027…
    The plan estimates that demand for coal would be less than the 2020 coal mining target of one billion tonnes per year set by the government in 2015 and then reportedly withdrawn earlier this year. The CEA estimated that the total coal requirement would be 727Mt in 2021-22, rising to 901Mt in 2026-27.

    This would include 50Mt of imported coal, as some Indian plants are designed to run on ***higher quality coal. Still, it represents a drop of 23Mt from last year’s import figure.
    That news will shake prospects for Australia’s planned Carmichael coal mega-mine in the Galilee basin, which is intended to supply India’s power sector, under the operation of Indian firm Adani.
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2016/12/16/india-to-halt-building-new-coal-plants-in-2022/

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  • #
    Analitik

    We need Malcolm Roberts to come back from harassing the US federal warmists and harass our local federal warmists. Hunt, Frydenberg and Turnbull would be a good start (Bishop is a lost cause and Turnbull too but he’s the ringleader and deserves public roasting).

    I never would have thought I’d be saying this a few years ago but Vote One Nation!

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    Frank

    A lawyer has a climate prediction.
    I’ve looked up the relevant scientists’ climate predictions and they strangely differ, obviously since the lawyer outranks them all he will be my new go to guy for all non legal matters.

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    • #
      AndyG55

      It must be really hard for you to read what has been said.. and realise it is the truth.

      Otherwise you would argue the points made….. If you had any real come-back at all.

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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        At least he had the decency to warn us that he knows a lawyer whose advice isn’t worth anything and we should shun the guy.

        Now if he would just tell us who that lawyer is.

        30

        • #
          Raven

          I guess the difference is that if a lawyer practiced law like the average “climate scientist™” practices science, he’d be disbarred.

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          • #
            Another Ian

            Raven

            While we’re at averaging

            Tis said that the average rural property exists only in the mind of an average rural economist

            30

            • #
              Raven

              Another Ian,

              Yes, that’s a point, too.
              I was intending that by the inclusion of the ‘™’ distinction the meaning of ‘average’ would be interpreted to be more . . . ahem . . targeted. ;)

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    incoherent rambler

    The bright side is that we can waste gazillions of dollars on CAGW, triple our energy costs and yet we still have a (barely) functioning economy.
    It demonstrates our wealth potential.
    The next step after the collapse of CAGW is getting government to remove energy taxes. This will take a long time.

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    • #
      TdeF

      No, the RET could be removed in a day!

      Coal stations would boom, without government money, with our money. Energy prices would rocket down. Power stations would fire up and compete for your dollar.

      Remove the RET. Bring back Abbott who was very popular, except with the media. Work with Trump. Destroy the Green monster before it destroys us. RET first.

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    Mark M

    As for any politicians who have ever believed in global warming, or supported the carbon tax, or a
    carbon-constrained economy, there is no hope for them.

    They are either too stupid or incompetent to be taken seriously.

    Merely recanting, at this late stage, won’t be enough.

    Make their lives hell too, just as they wished a diminished life on you.

    http://newsweekly.com.au/article.php?id=5257
    . . .
    Quite so these Australian politicians have achieved their mission as my power prices rise pointlessly.

    Warm the tar, pluck the feathers, light the torches, sharpen the pitchforks.

    You bet I’m angry.

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    David Maddison

    O/T

    I just saw an ad by GE for “the Golden Age of Renewables”.

    I prefer “the Cold Dark Age of Renewables”.

    And that’s how history will see it too.

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    Murray Shaw

    A very Merry Xmas and a Happy and Prosperous New Year to you Jo, and many thanks for your efforts this past year and the many years before that. This site has had the effect of keeping me sane over the years as I attempt to slip into despair at the actions of the climate catastrophists and their MSM cohorts. Many thanks Jo.

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    Ruairi

    The Emperor paid through the nose,
    Being stitched up by weavers for clothes,
    In a hustlers’ scam,
    Like the climate-change sham,
    Which Trump and his team will expose.

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    Oliver K. Manuel

    Thank you for the couraging news. Trump has formidable opponents in one-world tyrants like the UN, the National Academies of Sciences, the Bilderbergers, etc.

    My research mentor, the late Dr. Paul Kazuo Kuroda, became a patriot of all humanity and risked his life to prevent “nuclear secrets” from being used to enslave humanity after WWII.

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/TRIBUTE_TO_KURODA.pdf

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    Roy Hogue

    The eco-Worriers are pushing the message that the USA risks being a rogue state, a “backward nation”, a “pariah”

    And it’s about time we became exactly that, the fly in their ointment; the sand in their gearbox; a blown fuse in their fusebox. Say it any way you want to but once someone causes the global warming machinery to stop running it will be obvious that we not only didn’t need or depend on it but it was hurting us.

    Rogue state? Bring it on. It’s long past due. And I’ve thought, talked and maybe even preached for a long time that we shouldn’t care what the rest of the world thinks of us. If your neighbor ties a concrete block around his foot and jumps off the pier, why would you want to do the same?

    Trump has accomplished more of actual benefit to real people in just the few weeks since he was elected than President Obama has accomplished in 8 years. And the warming pushers can’t see anything good in that ??? And those same people can’t see anything wrong in Obama’s 8 wasted years either ??? Amazing!

    And good old Califunnyfarmia will keep on going with its single handed attempt to save the world until the bitter end.

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      Rod Stuart

      G’Day Roy
      I recall a few months ago we were discussing the future, when you had worrying doubts about “the Donald” (you probably still do) and I made some comment or other about the distinct division in American politics, and tried to compare it to ideas and attitudes in 1861. I was probably referring to a favourite book “The Last Turning”.
      I remember that you expressed great concern that this division might erupt into shooting again (and for good reason all should be concerned).

      I recalled that the other day, when listening to talking heads discussing the appalling sh*t stirred up amongst the electoral college. Should this revolt being stirred by useless Hollywood dimwits be successful to the point that Trump gets less than 270, and should the Congress then decide they would rather an establishment puppet like Jeb Bush (because there are a lot of Trump enemies within the GOP), then I can imagine all Hell would break loose over there.
      I suppose we will know in a few hours if billions of dollars have successfully upset the electoral college system. (I don’t know enough about it to be as certain as I would like to be that this cannot happen).
      Thoughts?

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        Roy Hogue

        Rod,

        Up to now I only know of three deserters among the Republican electors. One has said he would vote for Clinton and two have said they would resign rather than vote for Trump. So I think Trump will be elected. But the only way to know for sure is to wait and see.

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        • #
          David Maddison

          What happens if an elector resigns before voting?

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        • #
          Rod Stuart

          Thanks Roy
          I just had a look at Fox News and since it is one in the morning on the East Coast, I guess there won’t be any news for 12 hours or so.
          I’ll check when I get up tomorrow morning.

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        ianl8888

        … this revolt being stirred by useless Hollywood dimwits …

        I haven’t seen it (can’t bear to, actually) but I’ve read someplace that Martin Sheen apparently went on a cocaine-fuelled rant to attempt to stop the Electoral College voting Trump in as Presidente.

        If true, Sheen’s conceit is beyond any rational grasp. He seems to think that he really IS an ex-President and West Wing was actually real, rather than a pussy try at pretending Slick Willy Clinton wasn’t the pr…ck he actually is.

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      … the USA risks being a rogue state, a “backward nation”, a “pariah”

      Compared to which countries, may I ask?

      Isn’t it pathetic? The words, “rogue state”, “backward nation”, and “pariah” are no more than magical incantations.

      “If you don’t do what we want, we will call you names, and it serve you right, so there!”.

      Come on clildren, time for bed …

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    Dennis

    When will the politicians who are supposed to be our representatives looking after our nation and our best interests stand up and act in our best interests, and stop allowing the international socialists from getting their way with us?

    And including investigating the BoM and CSIRO, and other climate change related organisations funded from the public purse, to force them to account for their deceptive manipulation of data.

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    TdeF

    When the Green fantasy is exposed, we Australians would like an accounting from the hundreds of people in the CSIRO who wasted a billion dollars investigating this and said nothing. The BOM too.

    If a hospital was as negligent or any other public body with serious responsibility, there would be prosecution. All those qualified people, 350 alone in the CSIRO who said nothing and produced a web site and glossy report on Climate Change should at the very least surrender their luxury superannuation. As for anyone found to have fiddled the temperature records to support this should face criminal prosecution. These people have a responsibility to the people of Australia. Of course they could claim they were ignorant, unskilled and lacked adequate education, support and tools tools to form a scientific opinion. This will end badly for those people who took the money and said nothing.

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    pat

    ABC AM usually posts transcripts quite quickly, but I’ve just checked back to find there are some available, but not one for the Tim Buckley/Adani segment (see COMMENT #24 ABOVE FOR AUDIO).

    i’m still fuming over this ABC deception.
    i’m not going to read the 375-page report about India’s desires to have more renewables IF developed countries provide them with money & technology transfers, but Buckley is claiming the following, paraphrasing closely:

    ABC’s Stephen Long: India won’t need any additional coal-fired energy capacity DURING the coming ten years.
    Tim Buckley: they say there are 50 Gigawats of coal-fired power plants under construction already, so it’s far better TO COMPLETE THOSE AND WRITE THEM OFF AS STRANDED ASSETS, but no new coal-fired power plants in India in the next decade.
    ABCs’ Stephen Long: so where does this leave plans to build one of the world’s biggest coal mines in North Queensland to supply the Indian market?
    Tim Buckley: the Adani proposal is totally STRANDED. it is a white elephant and it is six years past its use-by date.

    only Buckley is interviewed “live” for this ABC AM segment. Frydenberg & Piyush Goyal’s contributions are old quotes, nothing to do with this report Buckley is talking about, so Buckley is getting away with making claims without any right of reply.

    Buckley’s opinion that Adani is STRANDED is one thing – an opinion – but I have seen nothing anywhere else to suggest India will write off the 50 Gigawatts of coal-fired plants under construction as STRANDED ASSETS.

    indeed, as the Karl Mathiessen/ClimateChangeNews piece states (LINK IN COMMENT #24):

    - The plan, released by the Central Electricity Authority (CEA) for public consultation, makes no room for further generation capacity BEYOND the 50GW coal fleet that is under construction. -

    very lengthy, read all:

    19 Dec: Livemint: Maulik Pathak: We aspire to be world leaders with our integrated pit-to-plug strategy: Adani
    Adani Group chairman Gautam Adani on the Australian coal mine project, plans for the solar power sector and Adani ports along India’s coastline
    Ahmedabad: Billionaire Gautam Adani, chairman of the Adani Group, talks about the company’s $16 billion coal project in Australia in an interview after winning a series of court battles that once threatened to derail the controversial mining project
    Q: …How do you see your Australian dreams unfolding? Also, you have faced similar resistance from environmental groups in India too in the past. What do you find in common in the two?
    Gautam Adani: After four long years of approval processes and unnecessary struggles in courts, we have finally overcome the hurdles and we hope to take it to our board (Adani Enterprises) for final investment decisions by March. The Carmichael mine, rail and port project includes the development of a world-class mine with phase one production of 25 million tonnes per annum (mtpa) in FY21. This includes 388-km standard gauge multi-user railway line of 60 mtpa capacity and related port expansions. The coal from this mine would be used to fire our power projects in Mundra and Udupi.
    The recent successful meeting with Australian federal, state and regional leaders not only enhanced our confidence but also has paved the way for enhancing trade multi-fold between the two nations…

    There have been several positive recent court outcomes in Australia that rejected the claims of what are largely activist-inspired appeals and uphold the strong approvals process by the governments in Australia that we have complied with. These activist-motivated appeals are at odds with the strong local community support in the regions the projects are based. So, the court wins provide more confidence around the project time-frames for Adani and meeting demand in India as well as for the supporting communities in Australia…
    There are both differences and similarities between activist activities in the two nations. Increasingly these are “political” campaigns with wider objectives and often with funding and support by global NGOs.
    Regrettably, these campaigns often don’t recognize that in many respects, India and Adani are at the forefront of finding the right balance between our leadership on renewable energy and the fact that our developing economy also needs the affordable thermal energy that many other nations still rely on for their base load.
    We continue to look for opportunities in mining sector across the globe as we aspire to be world leaders in the integrated ‘pit-to-plug’ strategy in our energy vertical. It includes mines, rail and port developments…
    http://www.livemint.com/Companies/0v3GPxrwuJA6gebfOMy7iN/We-aspire-to-be-world-leaders-with-our-integrated-pittoplu.html

    ABC needs to answer for allowing this Buckley piece of propaganda to go to air unchallenged. Kim Landers seems to be hosting the program while Michael Brissenden is on vacation or whatever, so she shouldn’t have allowed it either.

    these CAGW/renewable energy zealots are a danger to our country’s economic welfare.

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    pat

    am watching this match, so thought i’d put this up as a bit of fun:

    PIC: 14 Dec: TenSports: Rohan Sengupta: India vs England 2016, Fifth Test: Groundsmen use burning coal to dry Chennai pitch
    Chennai has been hit by the vicious Cyclone Vardah in the past few days, which has ripped the city into shreds…
    In a bid to dry up the pitch, the groundsmen took the help of hot coal. Using burning coal to dry up the wicket is an old method used across various stadiums in our country.
    Former England skipper Nasser Hussain posted a picture on his Twitter account of the groundsmen using burning coal to dry the wicket…
    http://www.tensports.com/news/india-vs-england-2016-fifth-test-groundsmen-use-burning-coal-dry-chennai-pitch

    unintentionally hilarious, as always, Farrelly tours India (hope Tim Blair doesn’t miss it – he’s overseas).
    is she channeling Hillary’s ***”dark heart” spiel?

    17 Dec: SMH: Elizabeth Farrelly: Our bright future can’t have ***black heart of coal
    But the fog, and the dystopia, signal a real malaise, one for which there’s no miracle antibiotic. Indeed, climate change is the world’s superbug, bred from a billion unthinking me-now cures; just make it OK for me, for now, for here.
    Australia, even in selling coal to countries like India, is acting like the worst kind of irresponsible patient, pretending – as Frydenberg has for years – that “most importantly” our purpose is to “help lift millions out of energy poverty” when it can only worsen their plight, and ours, while making the mega-rich richer…

    And, yes, there are alternatives. Consider, for example, Pollinate Energy in Bangalore, co-founded by young Sydney law graduate Emma Colenbrander. In four years, Pollinate has quietly shifted more than 80,000 of India’s 300 million without access to electricity onto solar LEDs.
    Think what $1 billion could do in such a forum. Surely, if we really wanted to lift India’s poor from the dust without worsening the grey scrabble of their lives, that would be the way to go?
    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/farrelly-20161215-gtbq8g.html

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    CalUKGR

    There is light at the end. The funding gusher could be switched off. The truth is that if subsidies stop to wind farms and theatre groups that “kill deniers”, hardly anyone will notice bar the “parasites who have been wasting the money.

    That’s my hope for the Trump Presidency. We’ll have to see if he really meant what he said in the pre-election rallies.

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      TdeF

      I think you will find, as the Americans say, Donald Trump is his own man, beholden to no one. He cannot be bought, bribed, pressured and he has a cooperative way. He has already met with Al Gore, Leonardo Di Caprio and many more. He engages his enemies and rewards his friends. It is hard not to like someone who has this sort of courage and self confidence, not seen since the days of JFK who incidentally would be 100 years old next year. At 70 years old, Donald is not doing this for power, wealth or holidays or to be surrounded by beautiful women. Most importantly, he is not a lawyer and does not need the job. No wonder DC voted 98.3% for Hilary.

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      el gordo

      ‘We’ll have to see if he really meant what he said …’

      All that TdeF says is true and I’ll add that Trump is a charismatic leader with a mandate to rule, he won’t let the people down.

      AGW is much bigger than Piltdown Man and Donald is determined to dismantle the whole system.

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    Kim

    The regressives are very much shut off in their own little world. They just don’t have any conception of what is happening around them – what is actually happening – and why. I’ve no problems with them being in their own little bubble providing it doesn’t effect me or those around me in any way. They will have to confront reality ultimately be will have much trouble actually understanding and dealing with it.

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      It must really upset them to think that their secure, pristine, beautiful little habitat, is totally surrounded by the rest of reality.

      Do I feel sorry for them … ?

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    tom0mason

    Something else non of the models, or last months forecasts could predict

    https://www.iceagenow.info/heavy-snowfall-morocco-many-videos/

    AGAIN.

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    AndyG55

    OT. been looking at USA Electoral college voting

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/12/19/us/elections/electoral-college-results.html

    Looks like Trump is home easily

    Count so far:

    268 for Trump (2 to go)

    166 for Clinton

    The really funny part is that 4, so far, have been “faithless” to Clinton

    Ps.. although page has not updated , there was a newsflash that Donald is now over 270

    GAME OVER !!! :-)

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    Reed Coray

    Two late-breaking “fake news” Headlines.

    First Headline:

    The unofficial count of the US Electoral College is Trump: 305, Clinton: 320.

    Subheadline: Democrat ballot stuffing approaching ludicrous stage.

    Second Headline: Podesta demands Electoral College vote recount.

    Subheadline: My campaign chairmanship can’t be that bad.

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