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It’s about character: Rex Tillerson’s

Two stories shed new light on Rex Tillerson, the incoming Secretary of State for the US.

Read this. It’ll warm your heart: What I learned about Rex Tillerson.  A major corporate leader does what any good citizen would do. But in a sea of corruption and self serving glorification it’s a rare story and quite a good read too.

During a five day trial of a man accused of abusing a young girl, the jury noticed one juror was a tall and somewhat charismatic middle aged man who wore a business suit. Mysteriously, he always had another man in a suit present around him, but doing nothing much.  He was picked as the jury foreman, but declined to “be in the spotlight”. When finally asked about the extra man, he just pointed at an Exxon headline in the paper and just said “I work for them” and he needed extra protection. The jury used the internet to figure out who he was. In 2007 Tillerson was CEO, and Exxon was the second largest company listed in the Fortune 500 list.

Emily Roden:  “As our deliberations came to a close, it appeared we might have a hung jury.

That’s when Tillerson began to speak. Humbly, delicately and without an ounce of condescension toward those who disagreed, he began walking us all through the details of the case. I even recall being moved by his thorough explanation about the nature of doubt and the standards set forth by our justice system.

With great patience, this man who strikes multibillion-dollar deals with foreign heads of state brought our scrappy jury together — to bring a sexual predator to justice and to deliver justice for a scared and deeply wounded little girl.

All I know is that this man who holds one of the most powerful positions in the world and clearly has the means and ability to side-step his jury responsibilities, served as a normal citizen without complaint or pretense.

He later donated to a local charity that worked with abuse victims.

It’s about character. While the media world lords up Leo and Al for “saving the world” real hero’s are quietly helping other people, and don’t make a documentary about it.

Of course, Tillerson’s a skeptic

The second story is a Huff Po piece lamenting that Tillerson is no convert to the global warming faith. That this is news says a lot: in the aftermath of Trump (and he’s not even sworn in) the Global Worriers have been reduced to hoping that Tillerson might be more akin to them than Trump’s other cabinet picks. How hath that politico-spectrum shifted?

Tillerson spoke in favour of the Paris agreement recently, but scratch the surface and he mocks renewables, and holds views like his predecessor, Lee Raymond, who was one of the few corporate leaders brave enough to openly fund the skeptical side.

The main message in the Huff Po piece is that if people who are powerful (you know, like CEOs of a “top ten” global company) can be badgered and cajoled into expressing support for something they don’t believe — perhaps just as a strategic move — it still shows how powerful badgering and heckling is. We might prefer to focus on facts and figures but the data shows homo sapiens are a gregarious species and that coercion and bullying is a major force in carving history.

The mirage of eco-concern: An ocean of people who “endorse” Paris but don’t care

This shows the brittleness of the faith in a man-made crisis. How many others are quietly like Tillerson, expressing some support for carbon taxes or Paris agreements while actually having very little interest in it?

Rex Tillerson Supposedly Shifted Exxon Mobil’s Climate Position. Except He Really Didn’t.

Senior Business Editor, Alexander Kaufman, Huffington Post.

As Coll wrote, “Tillerson’s own views about climate science were not greatly different from Lee Raymond’s,” though Tillerson “did not claim or wish to project the same sort of independent scientific expertise that Raymond had offered about climate science.” But Tillerson did see that the company needed to reposition itself.

The company announced its first big investment in biofuels two years later, vowing to spend $600 million on research into algae-based transportation fuels. In 2015, the firm backed the historic climate agreement reached in Paris, a stance it reiterated four days before this year’s election.

Tillerson, who President-elect Donald Trump has now nominated as his secretary of state, has gotten a lot of credit for Exxon’s shift away from climate denial. But even as Exxon learned to talk the talk, the $378 billion company has failed to walk the walk.

Tillerson “brought a more clever approach, a more PR-savvy approach, to climate at Exxon, but the company really didn’t change its stripes much,” said Kert Davies, who leads the Climate Investigations Center and was the creator of ExxonSecrets,

But even as recently as last year, Exxon continued to fund organizations that deny or downplay climate science, and proposed solutions to global warming. In 2015, the company spent nearly $2 million on more than a dozen such think tanks…

….unlike many of its industry rivals, Exxon has failed to invest seriously in renewable energy.

Tillerson has openly mocked the clean-energy industry for years, joking once that he wasn’t “really against renewables” because wind turbine operators bought Exxon’s oil as a lubricant. “The more windmills are built, the more oil we sell,” he said. At a May 2015 shareholders meeting, Tillerson said he hadn’t invested in renewables because “we choose not to lose money.”

As I said, if Tillerson believed, he had years to turn Exxon into another BP and Shell, but he didn’t.

Bear in mind that the total Exxon funding for skeptics, which ended in 2007 and has been mashed through the news cycle for ten years ever since, was only a tiny 23 million dollars compared to the five to ten billion a year from the US government paid to unskeptical researchers. The apostles for the Global Warming religion are utterly zealous about cleansing out even tiny amounts of “wayward” funding that go in the wrong direction. They know how important it is to starve the opposition (and a double thankyou to all the supporters who are making sure David and I don’t starve).

 

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177 comments to It’s about character: Rex Tillerson’s

  • #
    Stuart Elliot

    I believe that facts, logic and honest debate are about to make a comeback.

    I believe that, faced with such terrifying phenomena, many people who have become accustomed to getting their way by bullying will not be able to cope with the requirement to act like adults.

    Happy New Year to all, and may light shine where darkness has been.

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    • #
      Robert O

      Wouldn’t be nice if there were to be some honest debate about the global warming juggernaut instead of the media/banker/environment/ led campaign. And perhaps President elect Trump might initiate this which would be good. If there were to be some global warming, and carbon dioxide was the culprit perhaps we could do something, but it seems that solar input and the forms of water, vapour, ice and liquid, is the more likely cause.

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      • #
        Bulldust

        Slight tangent – but here is an honest challenge (my admiration for Scott Adams, Dilbert creator, continues to grow). Scott Adams has asked for people to cite one, just one, qualified climate scientist that thinks climate models predict future states accurately:

        https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/12/29/scott-adams-dilbert-author-the-climate-science-challenge/

        He finds Cook’s Constant (97% of climate scientists believe…) somewhat sceptically, to say the least, and would be happy to be proven wrong regarding modelling.

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        • #
          Bulldust

          Woot – red thumbs on both my posts. I have a fan! Ending the year in style it seems. Shame they are too cowardly to come out in the open with an argument so I can debate the points. Nah red thumb and move along /yawn.

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          • #
            Another Ian

            Bulldust

            As AndyG says

            Treat each red thumb as being worth 10 green ones

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          • #

            Their hate only makes you stronger. ;-)

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            • #
              AndyG55

              They make me laugh…

              They are invariably dumb, as in unable to make a rational reply.

              “OOO, I don’t like what he just said” …… :-)

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            • #
              Bulldust

              Been watching Star Wars again Bernd?

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              • #
                ROM

                Bernd knows his history only to well!

                And he knows very well that a repeat of that history should be eliminated entirely if at all possible from any future history of mankind.

                Quoted from the History Learning Site.;
                —————-
                Strength Through Joy (Kraft durch Freude) was set up in Nazi Germany so that all aspects of a worker’s non-working time were looked after. Strength Through Joy supervised after-work activities, holidays and leisure time.
                Strength Through Joy served two main purposes.
                The first was to ensure that no one had too much time on their hands to get involved in untoward activities against the state. There was a belief that idle hands might get involved in anti-state misdemeanours.
                The second main purpose of Strength Through Joy was to produce an environment within Nazi Germany whereby the average worker would be grateful to the state for providing activities and holidays that in ‘normal’ circumstances they could not afford as individuals.

                —————-
                Sounds very similar, very familiar in fact to what the socialistic trending communistic hard left elites and their low life, unthinking, uncomphrehending brain washed followers of our current times, a small selection of the regular mute red thumbers here no doubt being just a small part of that cohort of the hard left that is trying to impose the despotic and dictatorial equivalent of Strength through Joy on each us both individually and collectively today.

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              • #

                I’m flattered. And my high school history teachers would be astonished.

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        • #
          Owen Morgan

          John Harrison couldn’t win the Longitude Prize, even with the four most accurate clocks that had ever been produced up to his time. Lewis Carroll famously pointed out that a stopped clock is more useful than a slow one, since the stopped one is right twice a day.

          No climate model, based on the data available today, or for years to come, will predict future climate with anything resembling accuracy, except by chance. There are so many important variables, many flatly denied by those running the models, that the output from all that massively expensive number-crunching is necessarily nonsense. One day, somebody will triumphantly produce a readout that “predicts” what the (adjusted) global temperatures were in about 2003 and will proclaim that the models are vindicated.

          All it will really mean is that a stopped clock, once in a while, tells the right time, entirely by accident.

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      • #
        RobK

        Perhaps Rex Tillerson, the oilman, can undo some of the damage done by Maurice Strong the other oilman.
        We live in hope.

        40

    • #
      bobl

      I hope you are right, but diplomacy and politics have a way of closing gaps like trump. Will we see a truly independent thinker in Trump, I’m hopeful, but only time will tell. His challenge will be to be strong enough to say “You’re Fired” to those public servants that stand in the way of open government and honest debate. Personally what I expect I’ll see is layer upon layer of white-anting – It’s what the public service do best. “Yes Minister”

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      • #
        rapscallion

        The thing is that Trump is neither a politician or a diplomat. He’s a businessman. Either you come up with the goods or he’ll find someone who can.

        60

  • #
    James Murphy

    I don’t recall any other presidential handover coming under as much scrutiny as this one. A resident surprisingly-irrational-trump-hater (or, to cash in on star wars, a SITH) in my office seems to know the life and time (well, all the allegedly negative parts) about every single person Trump has picked out. (do they care if it’s factual…? doesn’t seem like it…)

    When asking about the people in the same positions during the Obama regime, one is met with all manner of bluster and diversionary tactics.

    Trump and his people haven’t been sworn in, and I imagine that the realities of the presidency (and all the other roles) may well differ from perceptions and briefing notes, so I am withholding judgement until I see the team in action. (this doesn’t prevent me from hoping that genuine swamp-drainage may be achieved, and the beginning of the end of costly and irrational faux-environmentalism).

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    • #
      Dennis

      Economic Systems: The alarmists keep telling us their concern about global warming is all about man’s stewardship of the environment. But we know that’s not true. A United Nations official has now confirmed this.

      At a news conference last week in Brussels, Christiana Figueres, executive secretary of U.N.’s Framework Convention on Climate Change, admitted that the goal of environmental activists is not to save the world from ecological calamity but to destroy capitalism.

      “This is the first time in the history of mankind that we are setting ourselves the task of intentionally, within a defined period of time, to change the economic development model that has been reigning for at least 150 years, since the Industrial Revolution,” she said.

      Referring to a new international treaty environmentalists hope will be adopted at the Paris climate change conference later this year, she added: “This is probably the most difficult task we have ever given ourselves, which is to intentionally transform the economic development model for the first time in human history.”

      The only economic model in the last 150 years that has ever worked at all is capitalism. The evidence is prima facie: From a feudal order that lasted a thousand years, produced zero growth and kept workdays long and lifespans short, the countries that have embraced free-market capitalism have enjoyed a system in which output has increased 70-fold, work days have been halved and lifespans doubled.

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  • #
    David S

    It’s ironical that people who wanted to take action because Exxon” knew” are hoping that the ex head of Exxon is one of them. It seems to me that Rex seems to be honest, pragmatic and smart so clearly he is not one of them. Hopefully he will be one of the key players who will encourage debate on the topic knowing that it’s a debate if conducted openly and honestly can have only one winner and it won’t be the warmists.

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    • #
      Allen Ford

      It is essential that this debate be conducted in the manner of all honest debates, a face to face encounter between protagonists for each position, opportunity for each side to challenge assertions by each side and demand objective evidence to support such a position.

      It would be desirable for the debate to be open ended, until a conclusive victory/defeat is achieved.

      50

      • #
        Richard Ilfeld

        You do know that the public side of this ‘debate’ will be conducted in hearings of a committee of the US Senate.
        “Objective Evidence” is generally banished from such proceedings.

        20

  • #

    2017 will indeed be an interesting year and we most certainly do live in interesting times.

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  • #

    “This is the USA Donald Trump! To the warship Global Warming off our starboard bow, prepare to be boarded, or destroyed! There will be no further warnings!”

    Trump has fired three shots across the Global Warming bow: Scott Pruitt, Ricky Perry and now Rex Tiller! Unfortunately, the Global Warming is failing to heave to.

    The good ship Global Warming will be at the bottom before the spring melt!

    If the Global warming movement has committed the massive frauds, as alleged by the skeptics, I am extremely confident President Elect Trump, once in office, will put the new attorney general to work on it. I expect numerous indictments and perp walks!

    Grab your pop corn and enjoy the show!

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    • #
      PhilJourdan

      Indeed! Trump has already exceeded my expectations, so the next 4 years is merely icing on the cake! And he has yet to assume office!

      Perhaps electing Business people instead of professional politicians is the way to go in the future! (And that thought scares the living poop out of the ruling elite!)

      40

  • #
    Crabby

    Just thought I’d put this link in about Falsifying Data by the NOAA. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gq_FEVtLqI. Don’t know if anyone has done this but it looks “familiar”. All the best All.

    71

  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    many people who have become accustomed to getting their way by bullying will not be able to cope with the requirement to act like adults.

    Not being able to cope with the requirement to act like adults is a defining characteristic of a bully. They have the temperament of an out of control two year old demanding that others must yield to their demands. If they don’t get their way, they throw a tantrum (stage a protest march demanding what they want NOW!). If that doesn’t work, they resort to violence, vandalism, theft, extortion, battery, and eventually to the use of lethal force. In particular, they feel having their demands met is their just due without having to do anything for it but demand.

    Other people don’t actually exist for them in any way other than to provide for their fleeting whims instantly. If others do give in, their demands escalate. If others don’t give in their anger and demands escalate. Hence, both appeasing a bully and ignoring him end with the situation becoming worse. The only fix I know is to knock him down so hard they are afraid to get up for fear YOU will get angry if they do.

    In the final analysis, it is nothing but kindergarten playground politics played on the world stage by people with adult bodies and pathological ethics.

    280

  • #
    PeterS

    Of course it’s too early to tell if Trump and his establishment will do more good than harm to the US and the world. We can all only hope that he will. One thing is for sure though – Obama has done far more harm than good in many respects. Two of the big issues are terrorism and the AGW scam. I won’t be satisfied that justice and honesty is served in the world until Obama’s Nobel Peace Prize is withdrawn. It’s becoming clear that under Obama’s regime the US has been more on the side of terrorism than democracy in the world. For example, it’s becoming clearer now that he helped the formation of ISIS for the explicit aim to overthrow the Syrian regime, and it has backfired big time. There are many other similar issues. No need to comment on the AGW scam – we all know where he stands on that and the harm he has perpetrated as a result. I say good riddance to Obama. Clinton would have been an even bigger disaster if she was elected. As for Trump well only time will tell but so far it’s looking good. The problem he will face is the opposition by the Democrats who will not give up their leftist agenda so easily. For example, Obama is setting up a shadow government in Washington to cause as much havoc as possible so they can be returned to government next time if not sooner. It does not look good for the US longer term. It will be interesting to see how Trump fights back over the next year.

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    • #
      el gordo

      Trump is a ‘Queens real estate baron and Tillerson a Texas energy titan.’

      Trump is a protectionist, while Tillerson is a free trader who probably thinks U.S. energy independence is ‘jingoistic pablum.’

      Fortune Mag

      30

    • #
      R2Dtoo

      Trump has only two years of certain control in all branches of government. When Obama had this he wasted the time , basically, on the single issue of health care reform. Hopefully, Trump will be smarter and do many of the “smaller” actions that set a variety of issues on a new course. His emphasis on development is correct, but this will take 4/8 years to really get going. He can, however, overturn a lot of executive actions quickly, which clears the deck for new policies. If, for instance, he would just can the EPA up front, he has four years to work through the legislated laws/rules as well as propose new effective laws/regulations. If he would just outright drop all involvement with the UNEP programs he clears the deck on much of the climate garbage. His best approach would be to give Congress as clean a slate as possible to work with. DOE should have the singular goal of energy independence (with Canada). DOI should work on real wildlife conservation and related issues. EPA’s replacement should focus on clean air and water, and genuine issues of pollution and health. Draining the swamp will be harder than many think, but it can start by attrition and reassignment within units, and the elimination of some whole units (Dpt. education). The US structure allows a lot of responsibility to be given to the states, which means there doesn’t have to be a long period of disruption to services. I have high hopes that real change occurs; then maybe we in Canada will have an example to follow for dumping the actor in chief we have.

      70

      • #
        el gordo

        ‘His best approach would be to give Congress as clean a slate as possible to work with.’

        Agreed, which means he will get things quickly underway.

        A revolution in ideas to shock the nation and the world.

        20

  • #
  • #

    As CEO of a global company Rex Tillerson has learnt how to be politically savvy. This is a key attribute for the Secretary of State who will have to be diplomatic with despotic and barbaric regimes. When the Paris Agreement turned out to be toothless, with an admission of failure in the final communique, and with a Republican Congress going to block any US sign-up, it was good PR for Exxon to welcome the Agreement. Tillerson will be able to see that there will never be an Agreement that cuts global greenhouse gas emissions. The reason is that the 1992 Rio Declaration excluded all “Developing” countries from obligations to cut emissions. Since 1990 all the net global increase in emissions has come from these Non-Annex countries. You do not need to be a genius at maths or an accomplished business leader to realize that it impossible to cut global emissions be over 80% without the participation of countries who now account for two-thirds of current emissions and are still increasing those emissions.
    A graph showing the split between Annex and Non-Annex countries is here.

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  • #
    Mark M

    A panicking Soros claims democratically voting in Trump is the end of democracy and a threat to his New World Order:

    “And these forces of disintegration received a powerful boost in 2016, first from Brexit, then from the election of Trump in the US, and on December 4 from Italian voters’ rejection, by a wide margin, of constitutional reforms.
    Democracy is now in crisis.
    Even the US, the world’s leading democracy, elected a con artist and would-be dictator as its president.”

    https://www.project-syndicate.org/onpoint/open-society-needs-defending-by-george-soros-2016-12

    The winning continues.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOMPk1N2RiY

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    • #

      It’s interesting how some define democracy.

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      • #
        rapscallion

        Yes, odd isn’t it. If the Left win, then it’s democracy. If the Left lose then it’s populism voted for by uneducated, low life plebs, who didn’t understand the question. Not content with that, the Left will try legal means to overturn the result. Google Gina Miller and Brexit

        60

      • #
        Dave in the States

        There is a sorta news cable TV program in the mornings in America called,…. wait for it: Democracy Now!. It is nothing but communist propaganda.

        30

      • #
        Gail Combs

        ESPECIALLY when the USA is NOT a democracy but a REPUBLIC, thank goodness.

        00

    • #
      Rod Stuart

      It would be nice to see Soreass extradited to Russia. Vlad would know what to do with him.

      51

    • #
      Mark D.

      Soros is clueless. His OP ED misses all the important reasons for Brexit, the failure of EU, and the people putting Trump in power. Soros fails to identify his own political leanings and influence as a significant reason for the people rising up and smiting the Left.

      Soros is rapidly seeing his globalist Fabian efforts crumbling. At his age, I hope he lives just long enough to see all the London School methods trashed and dies penniless in a grass hut.

      50

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘Marc Morano, publisher of the site Climate Depot, said that at first he had reservations, but that he was now confident Mr. Tillerson would act in accord with Mr. Trump’s stated views on climate change.

    “A deeper examination of Tillerson,” he said, “reveals a man who is not going to be a friend of the climate-change movement.”

    New York Times

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    • #
      Dennis

      I have noticed that warming believers are now denying that the last warming cycle ended in 1998, they even deny that the Met Office in the UK admitted it in a media release late in December 2012. Yes, the Met Office also claimed that when the cooling ends the warming will begin again, it will no doubt, but will be another natural warming cycle, not the global warming scare basis for spin.

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  • #
    Frank

    The last paragraph is misleading, Government support and tax breaks for fossil fuels still dwarfs that for renewables.
    As for RT’s character/ climate stance, he has a massive conflict of interest problem. As a large share holder in Exxon he stands to profit personally from future oil /gas deals, particularly with the odious Putin.
    Trump is simply building a bigger swamp.
    As your resident sage says – “just follow the money”.

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    • #
      Jim Poulos

      Say Frank – you do claim deductibles on your own tax returns don’t you, just like every other sensible income earning entity – or do you exist on the welfare grant and subsidy scheme?

      260

    • #
      Environment Skeptic

      “just follow the money”

      In a debt cycle (ongoing and expanding exponentially), the assets are indirectly owned by the creditors, ultimately to those with the power to print money…

      So who owns oil and how much of it??…….or how much is debt and how much is actual equity?? How much of Greece is debt and how much is equity?? How much of Australia is debt and how much is equity?? How much of real estate is debt and how much is equity?? and so on…

      Big Oil Companies Binge on Debt
      Exxon, Shell, BP and Chevron have combined debt of $184 billion amid two-year slump”
      http://www.wsj.com/articles/largest-oil-companies-debts-hit-record-high-1472031002

      I remain skeptical that anything coordinated, all encompassing and meaningful is being done by to protect the environment and what is left of the biosphere.

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      • #
        Konrad

        “I remain skeptical that anything coordinated, all encompassing and meaningful is being done by to protect the environment and what is left of the biosphere.”

        You’d be right to be sceptical. The AGW nonsense was supposed to be a coordinated and all encompassing “gotcha” against free market democracies, which to the irritation of the left, were providing citizens with the highest living standards, best lifespan and lowest pollution compared to all other systems of governance. It had little to do with protecting the environment. After all, adding radiative gases to the atmosphere can’t reduce its radiative cooling ability and CO2 is good for plants.

        Those genuinely concerned about real environmental concerns allowed themselves to be hijacked by socialists pushing pseudo science. They are going to have to rebuild with “Think local, Act local”. No more global junkets. No more UN committees. No more “raising awareness” and seeming rather than doing. Anyone with the foul slime of AGW on their hands needs to accept that they can never offer anything “meaningful” on environmental issues in the future.

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      • #
        Curious George

        We need a balanced view. Sixty years ago the air in Los Angeles was brownish. It is clear today, thanks to EPA. That does not mean that EPA should ban carbon dioxide, silica (beach sand), or water (they have not tried yet, but they would).

        100

    • #
      AndyG55

      In Australia fossil fuels do not get any subsidy.

      They do however contribute huge amount to government coffers and Australia GDP.

      Wind and solar contribute NOTHING

      133

    • #

      wild claims of “fossil fuel subsidies” debunked

      “In Western nations, they mean “tax deductions” for fossil fuel companies. Where a subsidy for renewable energy is a handout from the government, a “subsidy” for fossil fuel company means the government lets them keep some of the money they earned.”

      Your subsidies are imaginary word definitions Frank.

      The truth is that fossil fuels subsidize the government.

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      • #
        AndyG55

        “The truth is that fossil fuels subsidize the government.”

        Precisely.

        Wind and solar are only ever money sinks for the government.. they provide no income and in fact suck up subsidies like crazy. A total WASTE.

        Fossil fuels provide massive incomes by way of excise, taxes, export taxes, royalties etc etc.

        Australia survives because of that income.

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        • #
          Konrad

          “The truth is that fossil fuels subsidize the government dependants.” FIFY

          Federal income from fuel excise [Tax] is equivalent to the amount of “transfer payments” to support Frank and his ilk.
          Is federal expenditure on roads and transport infrastructure 33% of their budget? No. How about Centrelink?
          97% of “climate justice warriors” are utterly dependant on taxation of the hydrocarbon fuel economy.

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      • #
        Frank

        Jo,
        Tax dedections for the fossils overshadows the ‘handouts’ for renewables, have you seen the support for the Ardarni Carmichael mine ?

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        • #
          PhilJourdan

          Tax dedections[sic] for the fossils overshadows the ‘handouts’ for renewables

          This is a strawman and an example of how statistics lie. Definitely tax DEDUCTIONS for fossil fuels far outweigh ‘handouts’ for renewables. Considering that Fossil fuels are magnitudes greater of the energy share (world wide, about 70% to >1%), so the sheer volume indicates that is true! But frank would have us believe that energy businesses do not have the need for GAAP in their accounting (again, standard the world over), so that every dollar they receive MUST be pure profit!

          The only question is – why has the world not grasped the revolution of a NO cost, infinite wealth potential and exploited every drop of oil, puff of gas, and lump of coal to drag the impoverished out of poverty and into prosperity?

          Frank has invented the perpetual motion machine!

          101

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘Trump is simply building a bigger swamp.’

      Tillerson is not interested in amassing greater wealth, he wants to help make the world a better place.

      101

      • #
        Richard Ilfeld

        One can’t tell if you are tongue in cheek, or not.
        There is considerable personal sacrifice to the type of service he is undertaking.
        Heavy scrutiny, public vilification, probable need to put one’s wealth in a trust.
        Have we seen any Silicon Valley types go through this? or have the mostly served on unnoticed advisory boards,
        or through trusts and foundations.
        For the privilege of working in a bureaucracy where the inmates run the asylum and many are burrowed subversives dedicated
        to your failure.
        I’m not sure I’d take it one.

        40

      • #
        Frank

        el,
        Have you heard of Poe’s law ?

        30

    • #
      James Murphy

      Frank, which government are you talking about…?

      If you bothered to look at the facts, from, say, the US Energy Information Administration, and if you have a modicum of mathematical ability, you will discover that your claims about fossil fuel subsidies are ridiculous, and totally unburdened by the shackles of reality.

      Have a read of this report containing 2013 data, but released in 2015:
      http://www.eia.gov/analysis/requests/subsidy/

      As an example, lets look at electricity generation;
      Renewables received US$11.678 Billion, or 72% of electricity generation subsidies to generate 13% of US electricity.
      Coal received US$901 million (6% of the total) and generated 39% of US power.
      Oil/gas received US$690 million (4%) and generated 28% of US power
      Nuclear – US$1.66 Billion (10%) in subsidies for generating 19.4% of US power.

      Care to comment further?

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    • #
      Manfred

      The truth is that fossil fuels subsidize the government. Jo #13.4

      Precisely.
      Frank you really need to wake-up and follow your own advice – ‘Follow the money’.
      Follow with express bitterness and resentment the >50% NZ (>60% EU) tax levied at the pump that disappears down a black hole called the government treasury. Follow yourself to the tip of the Green Blob, and look around — UK green taxes hit record high of £44.6 billion

      Environmental taxes hit a new record high of £44.6 billion in 2014, official figures show, as the bill for renewable energy levies rose to almost £3 billion.

      The data from the ONS shows that the green tax burden has more than doubled over the past two decades, from £19.4 billion in 1994.

      Last year saw the ninth consecutive increase in the tax burden, which stood at £43 billion in 2013.

      The vast majority of the taxes are those levied on transport fuels such as petrol and diesel, accounting for £27.1 billion. Vehicle duties accounted for £6 billion of the total and air passenger duty £3.2 billion.

      The cost of renewable energy taxes to subsidise wind and solar farms rose by more than a fifth to £2.9 billion.

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    • #
      Raven

      I suppose the other thing is that renewables likely claim the very same fuel rebate on heavy equipment used to erect wind turbines.

      But since renewables are so heavily subsidised by the taxpayer, they couldn’t realistically claim a profit and therefore can’t claim a tax break.

      I’s not too hard to see which way the money flows.

      40

      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        “………the taxpayer…………”
        If i can interject and observe that a far more accurate word to use might be the ‘debtpayer’.
        Might take a while for a spellcheck to recognise this word even though it is long overdue.

        Taxes were once collected to control inflation and deflation in an economy where the money was printed by the government owned banks and not privately owned central banks etc. By increasing taxes, inflation was curbed, and, by decreasing taxes, deflation was curbed the way i have understood it. Any taxes that are now collected are more often used to pay interest on government loans from banks, or to maintain a credit rating.

        I remain skeptical that the remaining, still present, environment is being looked after, despite the mind boggling abundance of climate change environmentalism.

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        • #
          ROM

          Environment skeptic @ # 13.8.1

          So if the capitalistic nations with the Biggest, nastiest , greediest corporations that are a supposedly major force for evil against the natural world as you seem to be claiming then why does North America, the UK, all of Europe and Australasia have the cleanest air, the cleanest streets , the lowest crime rates internationally, the personal freedoms for individuals , the rule of Law, the rights to travel across continents with the minimum of restrictions, the by far greatest percentage of acreage per nation of natural legally mandated and adequately protected and patrolled nature reserves and parks, the mandated requirements that the same big business if it digs a hole or disturbs a natural feature is required to rectify that and replace back to as close to the previous natural as is reasonable, the protection of ethnic minorities and the equality between sexes and the right to vote for and thereby select their own representatives to their national governing bodies.

          Why do nations who do supposedly do NOT have the nefarious and evil big businesses that are hell bent on destroying the natural environment if we are to believe the proposition you are putting forward, have so much quite health destroying air, water and land pollution, have few air pollution controls let alone policing those pollution standards. who have so much filth and rubbish spread throughout their environment, who are rapidly destroying their forests and natural environment, who are riddled with corruption at every level, who have at best a highly variable level of individual protection under the rule of law which is widely subject to interpretation according to the status of the individual, who have living conditions for the vast bulk of their population which is barely at a level that the lowest strata of population live in the advanced countries, who have little in the way of protection legally let alone in reality for their national environmental reserves and parks and attributes and etc and who often refuse to allow that same western evil nature destroying big businesses to operate within their nation as they give exclusive access to their own usually blatantly corrupt local big couldn’t give a damn about the environment if it gets in the way of profits, businesses .

          Real world reality suggests that you have it all arse about face Environment skeptic and it would appear that you are fixated in your views particularly re the Evil western big business, something you appear to hold in common with the hard left of our times so I guess nothing much posted here will change your mind or get you to re-consider your current attitude.

          The ultimate irony of your attitude is the fact that you can state your views here on an open forum without fear of retribution from the evil Big business which says quite a lot.

          Plus of course the ultimate irony in your attitudes towards that big evil business so intent on destroying the hallowed environment in that you are using a whole great big bunch of evil big businesses that provide power and the materials, big business that destroys the environment as it dig up the ores from which the metals and materials you are using to transmit your ideological leanings to the world at large through the medium of the internet and the big businesses that create the technologies and dig the trenches to lay the cables and create the technology and build the infrastructure , and big business that invents and creates the materials and processes you and I and the few billions on this planet have come to totally rely on in every way as we go about our daily lives,
          And yet despite the so called evils of these big businesses each and all of us can and do openly state our opinions of big business and a whole host of other of civilisation’s most powerful and influential groups and figures right here where hundreds and possibly thousands will see, read and with luck think about what they have read here.

          The ultimate big business and a the most thoroughly corrupt environmental, polluting and nature destroying system of government as history has visually and health wise proven to mankind over the last century one is the One Party hard left Socialistic / Communistic system where there is only one business, the government business and whoa to anybody who attempts to challenge that business.

          60

    • #
      Robert Rosicka

      Hey Frank if they removed all subsidies for fossil fuels and renewables which do you reckon will survive ?

      71

      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        In all cases, if i may interject, the privately owned banks would survive, as is shown since 2007.

        I remain skeptical that the remaining, still present, environment is being looked after, despite the mind boggling abundance of climate change environmentalism.

        40

      • #
        Frank

        Robert,
        The fossils have had assistance for centuries and still demand it, Trump would have fired them long ago.

        28

        • #
          Robert Rosicka

          Doesn’t answer the question Frank , which one survives zero subsidies ?

          30

          • #
            Frank

            The renewables are just getting started and , like any other new technology , needs assistance.
            Remove the subsidies, tax the fossils properly factoring in their environmental costs and the renewals would be more cost effective.
            [ "like any other new technology , needs assistance."
            Bull excrement! OK I'll pick one: Henry Ford needed assistance?

            [their "environmental" costs? Just how did you calculate them? Did you add in the environmental "costs" of the renewables?

            I bet you didn't.

            Renewables have had over 25 years to get "started".]ED

            15

            • #
              Frank

              Ed,
              By your own logic the fossils can do without their subsidies and the Ardarni mine can self start.
              Apart from the ‘minor’ costs of air/water/soil pollution, I think the monumental cost of AGW is at issue here.
              [No Frank you have failed to back up your claims. Now you are onto a deflection. Good luck with that] ED

              14

              • #
                AndyG55

                If the stupid green anti progress agenda and all the ridiculous green and red tape would get out the way, then Adarni could self start.

                Any government help with road, rail etc will be paid back many fold.

                Wind and solar are just a money sink. They give NOTHING back to society.

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              • #
                Frank

                I’m backed up by every credible scientific institution. You haven’t successfully backed up any of your claims in the real World ED, that’s why this fantasy site exists.

                16

              • #
                AndyG55

                You have NEVER presented anything of any relevance to climate.

                Just baseless rhetoric.. that is all you have, Fronk

                Come on.. data.. facts.. do you even know what they are ?????

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              • #
                Robert Rosicka

                Geez two days two trolls , both clueless on science but very much into religion.
                Adani is getting help with the rail line yes but the jobs , real jobs that will be created will offset any cost / subsidy it gets .
                So your backed up by every credible scientific institution ! I wasn’t aware there was one that was in the climate field anyway .

                31

              • #
                PhilJourdan

                Fossils do not get subsidies. That is why they do with out them.

                Expense deductions are NOT subsidies. Learn accounting.

                00

            • #
              AndyG55

              ” tax the fossils properly factoring in their environmental costs”

              And give them back the HUGE amount owing for all the highly beneficial CO2 they release.

              That CO2 with H2O feeds you and every other creature on this Earth…..

              did you know that, Fronk ??

              Wind gives nothing back except dead birds and bats.

              Solar gives nothing back except poisonous soil when they corrode.

              42

            • #
              Gail Combs

              “…Renewables have had over 25 years to get “started”.”

              More like over forty years for solar and over a thousand for wind power. Both are OLD concepts.

              00

            • #
              PhilJourdan

              The wheel needed subsidies? Really?

              Computers needed subsidies? When?

              Cars needed subsidies?

              Seems like the only thing that needs subsidies no longer exist – or are still getting them.

              Major fail

              00

        • #
          AndyG55

          Any small assistance given for exploration, allowable tax excise returns etc etc, comes back to the government in huge amounts.

          Australia relies on mining of coal, iron ore etc to exist as a first world nation.

          Wind and solar are nothing but a money sink for the government. !!

          Coal, oil, gas will always viable because they are totally indispensable for modern society.

          Wind and solar are more of a BURDEN on modern society, and could easily be dispensed with.

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    • #
      Leo Morgan

      Frank, I promise to subsidise you $10,000,000.00 the way fossil fuels get subsidised, if you promise to subsidise me $1 million dollars the way Solar energy gets subsidised.

      50

  • #
    Sean

    Exxon was one of the biggest benefactors of climate hysteria. They don’t have much in the way of oil reserves, it’s mostly natural gas and mostly conventional gas at that. The environmentalists have been successful shutting down coal but only because natural gas has become plentiful and cheap as a cost effective substitute. Gas fired turbines that can cycle up and down quickly are also much better back up to intermittent renewable generation. The climate movement did a great deal to increase the market share for natural gas making them the biggest fossil fuel patsies ever.

    40

    • #
      Steven Fraser

      Sean, so 20b barrels is ‘ not very much’?

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    • #

      Gas fired turbines that can cycle up and down quickly are also much better back up to intermittent renewable generation.

      But not if brown coal is cheap enough to keep spinning. As Germany found.

      New gas-fired plants moth-balled and “antique” coal-fired gets operating licence extended.

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      • #
        AndyG55

        And not if the greenies stop the extraction of gas.

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        • #

          As indeed they have.

          Much of Northern Germany is known to be “floating on natural gas”, ready for fraccing but because the “technology isn’t proven” (existing well has been fraccing “old style”, without horizontal drilling, for half a century near the North Sea coast), Germany is therefore committed to buying gas (mainly) from ex-Chancellor Schröder’s employer, Gazprom, the effectively Russian government owned gas and oil giant.

          Interestingly, German trade sanctions against Russia due to Russian interventions in the Ukraine, don’t extend to Russia’s most lucrative exports; gas.

          Russia has, btw, recently, openly colluded with OPEC to reduce its oil production in an attempt to increase oil prices. Which of course means that only oil-buying nations like Australia and Germany will be paying the higher prices because the reason for the low prices; the USA’s self-sufficiency via fraccing; remains largely untouched by the cartel’s feeble market manipulations.

          30

  • #
    TedM

    “Bear in mind that the total Exxon funding for skeptics, which ended in 2007 and has been mashed through the news cycle for ten years ever since, was only a tiny 23 million dollars compared to the five to ten billion a year from the US government.”

    Jo I think this sentence needs qualification. It seems to say that the US Govt has paid five to ten billion a year to the sceptics. Sorry if I’m being a bit pedantic, but that’s just me.

    Very good point. Amended. Thanks! – Jo

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    • #
      Environment Skeptic

      It needs to show that private government creditors payed/approved ten billion in loans on behalf of the US government. Government’s are not capable of paying anything without a loan these days in my best understanding.

      Even Exxon needs funding/borrowing to survive these days.

      “Big Oil Companies Binge on Debt
      Exxon, Shell, BP and Chevron have combined debt of $184 billion amid two-year slump”
      http://www.wsj.com/articles/largest-oil-companies-debts-hit-record-high-1472031002

      I too am sorry if i am being a bit pedantic.

      20

  • #
    TdeF

    As the New Year starts, it is important to return to the real fears of the 1970s which have been overwhelmed by Global Warming fantasy, a great fear of something which is not happening.

    The real fears are still Global Cooling and running out of oil. A +0.5C in a global average in 30 years is not a problem, even if it is not just a change in instrumentation in the 1980s. It is a laughable disaster. That is less than the temperature difference across a room.

    The problem is far worse than the 1970s with a world population 3x what it was in the 1970s. Now we cannot afford CO2 levels to drop as all food and all life comes from CO2. The increase is feeding billions and a drop in CO2 could kill billions.

    The $1Trillion a year currently spent on windmills and solar cells provide no insurance at all. In twenty years, most of these gadgets will be broken, monuments to a scare which never happened and not serviceable. Unreliable, unpredictable Replaceables.

    Besides, only rich countries have them, which is perhaps the point. The caring Left caring about themselves only. In the 20th century science was worshipped and became a world wide religion packed with pseudo scientists, rent seekers, acolytes and Lord Monckton’s Profiteers of doom.

    Where would we be if the money was spent on real insurance, more oil and gas exploration, more dams, more research into energy storage and more and safer nuclear plants and nuclear waste disposal. Then fusion. We should be chasing fusion the way we chased fission. Endless fuel, no pollution. Fusion would not hold back the glaciers but it would enable us to adapt to the new ice age predicted in the 1970s.

    When the oil and gas and coal run out, what then? Electric cars are not a solution and jet aircraft cannot run on batteries. WHen the ice age comes, we could dream that CO2 could actually reverse an ice age, but after 30 years of exhaustive investigation, the evidence is clear that it is impossible. A greenhouse gas, yes. An inconsequential and irrelevant green house gas. Water in all its forms, from clouds to ice to rain to snow to glaciers is what determines climate, not tiny CO2. We live on water covered planet.

    So perhaps under Donald Trump we will see new technologies, not just wind and sun and water worship, druidic nonsense from a primitive time before rational science, but then most politicians are cunning opportunists, sensitive only to the needs of the swinging voter. In Australia, Labor voters are ‘rusted on’ and Liberal voters are ‘deluded’. This from senior political advisers who aim for the mad middle only to create Loony lost parties like Jeremy Corbyn’s Labor and Australia’s Liberals under Malcolm Turnbull. Malcolm may well split the Liberal party, destroying it for a generation as his Great Uncle did to the British Labor party in the 1930′s with his anti rearamament story that Hitler was a good guy, a Christian and lacked any ego or ambition.

    If Trump can bring countries together, maybe with the post Climate combined science forces of the US, Russia, China, UK and Germany working on real solutions, we could have the dream. Recyclable metal fuels like aluminium not carbon, new sources of energy from the planet and most importantly, fusion, really the only hope of humanity to survive. In the meantime, the massive spending on windmills in rich countries only has to stop. They are to save the rich only, not the planet.

    Pack up the windmills. Send them to Africa and South America and India, where they are needed for a very basic quality of life. Could someone please tell Weatherill he is responsible for destroying South Australia’s energy supply, manufacturing and services. Electric power is now as basic to life as food. I guess he will retire to Queensland anyway, a legend in his own lunchtime.

    The appointment of 350 full time CSIRO scientists for years to validate Climate Change was a crime against Australia. The ‘problem solvers’ tried to prove the problem existed and failed, but they fail at most things. It is a retirement home for public servant scientists who support political science, not real science. Sell the lot, CSIRO, ABC, BOM, SBS. They are all on holiday at the moment, such is the pressure of work for the public self service.

    Stop the windmills. We can get out of this coming disaster.

    The one thing we can thank Weatherill for is that everyone knows first hand that windmills do not work.

    Closing Hazelwood might wake up the rest of Australia, even if it dooms South Australia.
    Anyone who wants to make money should be importing diesel and petrol generators as fast as possible.
    Everyone will pay, as they did in Tasmania, flying over 400 large diesel generators while they tried to get the mothballed gas turbine generator going again.

    The people of Adelaide will have to rediscover why their fathers built power stations in a time when politicians promised to fix the place, not tear it down.
    Adelaide could become a retirement home with no airconditioning and the sharks a protected species.

    We all hope and wish it is a Happy New Year and the most exciting event will be a new US President on January 20th whose theme is to make America Great again.

    It would be nice if we had the same, Abbott was returned, not someone who cares more about Gay Marriage, a new Constitution for Aborigines only, a Carbon tax, stopping dog and horse racing and saving the sharks and building windmills than about Australia. Global Warming is not a problem. Our self indulgent political parties are.

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    • #
      bobl

      Pinching my stuff TDef…

      Yes, with the expansion of the population at 1% we need to increase atmospheric CO2 at 2ppm P/A to keep food ahead of population. Even so two cold years in a row in the northern hemisphere could deplete our reserves and send the NH western nations into panic. SH Nations like Australia should make contingency for that. Instead of building a stronger agricultural sector Australia’s government is busy outsourcing our food. There IS NO PLAN for the next ice age which is coming as sure as earth’s orbit is eccentric. We flail about ranting about a non-problem when world food security should be the agenda. Moving humanity into guilded cages in the Agenda 2030 plan does not acheive that indeed it makes the outcome of a food crisis much, much worse.

      Aluminium fuels are possible but frankly hydrogen sources are much more useful. Ammonium (NH4) has 4 Hydrogens so online cracking and oxidation of say ammonium nitrate NH4NO3 which even carries it own oxygen supply is possibly a better target. Some fuel cells can do that. Mix it with a carbon source and you have a pretty good propellant, how to inject that into an engine cavity and control the explosions is challenging – but that’s just engineering. You could also use nitroglycerin in the same way. By far the easier target though is methane, which you can make in copious quantities with simple bacterial digesters or perhaps methane hydrate – These fuels are good forever as transport fuels while Nuclear fusion is good forever for fixed infrastructure (Electricity). There are plenty of portable fuel target compounds like Ammonium Nitrate if you have Fusion Power to make them.

      91

      • #
        TdeF

        Agreed. Get a limitless energy source and we can make our own fuels from any exothermic reaction components. Carbon is just the most obvious and we have used wood fires since Neanderthal days. We need energy, not windmills. We also have to decide if we are in charge of the planet or whether we are just servants of an intelligent piece of hot rock, as Tim Flannery and the other druids would have it. If we want to shape a coastline, select species, clear trees and grow grasses so eat seeds and divert and control and store fresh water, farm animals and fish and generally do the best we can for our species, there should be free do so do.

        Lake Baikal, the largest single lake in the world with 21% of the world’s fresh water was raised 1 metre to feed the very fast Angara river through Irkutsk and generate power. It flooded part of the old Circum Baikal railway line, so the new one goes over the top of the mountain, not around it. However I do not remember any protests. Terraforming as at Dubai is changing our planet as we start to live in the sea. In Melbourne, we could build a suburb in Hobson’s bay as 90% of Port Phillip is under 6 fathoms (36 feet) deep and stop building and concreting the best land.

        However the people against everything still want to send all the manufacturing, all the jobs and all the CO2 to China. These people get their fish from Vietnam, their bicycles from China, their shoes from Taiwan, their food from a supermarket and their wages from the government.

        We need to stop listening to the fringe dwellers like Malcolm Turnbull who lives his sheltered existence on Point Piper and dreams of even greater wealth in an ETS run by Goldmann Sachs. We need someone who says Climate Science is crap. Someone who wants to make Australia great, not just himself.

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  • #
    michael hart

    “…he wasn’t “really against renewables” because wind turbine operators bought Exxon’s oil as a lubricant.”

    Oh my dayz. The laughter was strong with this one when I read that.

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  • #
    Jim Poulos

    Very sorry, but this is an ‘out there’ OT question to any American contributor following the current Obama sanctions on Russia:

    Q. Is Obama using this spurious ‘hacking’ allegation as an attempt to manufacture a ‘national emergency’ to some how remain in power?

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    • #
      Bulldust

      I find it doubly amusing given that Julian Assange specifically stated (and it is rare for them to talk about sources) that the source was “not a state entity.” Given Assange knows a thing or two about hacking and has no dog in the fight, it seems reasonable to lean towards his claim over that of Dead Duck Obama and his apparatchiks. Plenty of hawkish GOP want to maintain the chill with Russia as well, no doubt to keep fuelling the military industrial complex.

      Here’s hoping Trump settles things down and gets on with the job of scrapping the waste in Washington DC.

      131

      • #
        Bulldust

        I’d like to add that the SMHuffPo is just as bad at moderating as the ole ABC was… I made a similar point at the following story:

        http://www.smh.com.au/world/us-election/us-expels-35-russian-diplomats-closes-two-compounds–official-20161229-gtjn6i

        In response to the first comment thread. You tell me why the following comment would be considered out of bounds by the SMHuffPo mods?

        Bulldust Today, 11:07AM

        Assuming this all revolves around the hacked emails, Julian Assange (hero of the SMH crowd, to be sure) came out and flatly stated that the source of the emails was not a state entity. Not a state entity. Let that sink in.

        Given that Assange and his mates know a thing or two about hacking and forensically analysing hacks, you’d think they know a thing or two about the true source. So who do you believe, Assange with no dog in the fight, or politicians and political apparatchiks fronting for the Whitehouse? Hmmm let me see…

        And as others said… what was revealed exactly? How was this any different to a whistle blower revealing shady dealings at the DNC and beyond?

        What is clear, is that Putin will laugh his posterior off at this political gesturing. Maybe he will have a hacker pose in his next personal calendar.

        I know this is the original verbiage because I copied and pasted it from my “rejected” comments list at the SMHuffPo itself. I guess they are silly for letting you access the reject pile, unlike the ABC which simply sent them down the memory hole.

        60

    • #
      bobl

      I don’t think that is now possible I can’t see SCOTUS upholding the invalidation of the election to generate this situation just on the fact that nothing was disclosed by anyone that wasn’t true. Obama is deflecting of the Russian thing, even if they were involved Russia was only revealing THE TRUTH to the American people. The emails did not CHANGE the election they INFORMED it. Noone has ever denied that the emails were genuine. If it was the Russians (Not that I personally believe that conspiracy theory) then America owes them gratitude for whistleblowing on the corruption the emails show. The Democrats are only whining about being caught out for the cheats they were. Obama is setting sanctions on Russia for INFORMING the public about the real antics of the American elite. I’m not a Putin fan but in this case, if they did do it, then they have done the world a service by ridding the world of some corrupt bureaucrats.

      Don’t be fooled and keep your eyes on the little ball, the scandal is not about the messenger, it’s about the CONTENT.

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      • #
        TdeF

        It’s the first time anyone or country has been accused of invalidating an election result by telling the truth about a candidate! It did not stop the Democrats from timing their release of the Trump audio. Who records that stuff for another day? Blackmail material. Besides Assange says the Russians did not release the material and he should know, but even if they did it is absurd to argue that the truth has unfairly biased an election result. It always does.

        Still Obama needs an enemy, especially one who left him out of peace negotiations in Syria and just announced a truce. Obama started the Arab Spring. How many have died for his meddling in African politics? What interest could Obama possibly have in religious extremism in Africa? Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Turkey, who has not suffered from the Arab Spring? Plus the problems in Europe which a direct result of the Arab Spring more an Arab disaster. We can only hope Trump and Putin can sort this, plus whoever replaces Merkel and Hollande. Threatening Netanyahu and Israel was possibly Obama’s last act. Why? What is Obama’s agenda?

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        • #
          bobl

          I want to repeat this TDeF

          It’s the first time anyone or country has been accused of invalidating an election result by telling the truth about a candidate!

          Just what I was trying to say in one beautiful sentence.

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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Who to believe? Obama or Putin?

      Based on considerable past history, I would have to come down on the side of Putin.

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    • #
      Gail Combs

      Q. Is Obama using this spurious ‘hacking’ allegation as an attempt to manufacture a ‘national emergency’ to some how remain in power?

      >>>>>>>>>

      First the bills in Congress accusing Russia of planting ‘Fake News’ and ‘Hacking’ go back to MARCH 2016 or before.

      Despite a whole long list of of KNOWN Chinese Red Army hacks, ONLY Russia was sanctioned for ‘hacking’

      We have had headlines since Obummer took office like:

      Hackers Linked to China’s Army Seen From EU to D.C. – Bloomberg
      Chinese-Based Hacking of 760 Companies Shows Cyber Cold War – Bloomberg

      Oak Ridge National Laboratory Hacked – Security Watch
      and the same event
      Top Federal Lab Hacked in Spear-Phishing Attack – Wired
      This is really funny because Podesta was hacked by a Phishing Attack

      Chinese hack U.S. weather systems, satellite network – The Washington Post
      >>>>>>>>>
      There is very weak ‘evidence’ of Russian hacking but a long list of substantiated hacking by the Chinese Army of academic labs, government labs and corporations. So one can be forgiven if one assumes RUSSIA is suddenly targeted, instead of China, as part of the preparation for a cold war or possibly a nasty war with Russia.

      This was all started when Hillary Clinton (or Jeb Bush) was supposed to be the next president. Note the top Bush announce he would vote Hillary, so you can see where the actual political divide is and it ain’t demi-rat vs rebooblican.

      War of course is a great way to get the serfs focused on something besides the elite who are screwing them. It is also a good way to exhaust both nationalistic Russia and nationalistic USA giving China the ability to step in as unopposed world Leader and get us back on track for a worldwide communist/socialist dictatorship.

      Don’t forget that Christiana Figueres, not only admitted the goal:
      “This is the first time in the history of mankind that we are setting ourselves the task of intentionally, within a defined period of time, to change the economic development model that has been reigning for at least 150 years, since the Industrial Revolution,”

      But also United Nations climate chief Christiana Figueres said that democracy is a poor political system for fighting global warming. Communist China, she says, is the best model.

      As a side note: Bill Clinton single-handedly lifted China from a third world nation to the biggest economy by literally giving them US technology and access to the US market. Chasing the Dragon – Clinton’s China Policy

      00

  • #
    KinkyKeith

    Stuart’s comment at number 1 is a very interesting observation.

    Those who have grown up in the current system will indeed have a great deal of difficulty moving to a new way of living and thinking, but that change is absolutely essential if we want to move on and grow as a society that embraces real egalitarianism.

    The false equality of the last 45 years has served only those at the top of the heap.

    Bullying and cronyism have no place in a society that wants to promote bullying or groupism as the principal means of moving through life.

    KK

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    • #
      Manfred

      Bullying and cronyism have no place in a society that wants to promote bullying or groupism as the principal means of moving through life.

      I would have thought that ‘bullying and cronyism’ are essential traits ‘in a society that wants to promote bullying and groupism as the principle means of moving through life’ KK?
      The Green eco Marxist blancmange has proved that over and over again, and succeeded in delaying, hampering and outlawing progress and development in favour of the Green psychopathology, quite well described by Pascal Bruckner in ‘The Fanaticism of the Apocalypse: Save the Earth, Punish Human Beings’

      There is only one form of rational egalitarianism and that is the egalitarianism of opportunity. The current UN tour de force of victim politics is cultural Marxism at its best, with an inversion of societal values and norms such that those with the greatest degree of putative ‘injustice’ acquire greater social worth and recognition through their victim identity.

      It laughably goes wildly wrong when someone as smart and cutting as Milo pushes back against the Leftopaths.

      But then, the Leftopath fall back position of enthusiastic ‘book burning’, like the climate ‘professors’ of 2013 is the thuggish, bullying response we all know and expect. It is these anticipated traits that need to be expunged from our dysfunctional society.

      Leveling the scientific playing field by deleting faux science, that revoltingly politicised, post-modern, precautionary, policy based ‘science’ from the political meme could restore the egalitarian landscape of opportunity that we all desire. That at least appears one reason why the Leftopaths loathe Trump. They appear absolutely dependent on artifice and subterfuge, indeed anything but the level playing field of opportunity.

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      • #
        KinkyKeith

        I knew when I posted that Manfred, that it wasn’t right.

        Too tired to change it.
        Should have been “wants to promote decency and fairness” as a means of moving towards a better world.

        I thank my lucky stars that my first nine years working in industry were at a plant in Newcastle that was amazing.
        That a group of 1200 people could seemingly get along so well while manufacturing good quality product made a big impression.

        Then I went into another world for 30 years that was professionally satisfying but full of the p.c. cr&p you outline.

        Time we all moved on to a better world.

        KK

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    pat

    24 Dec: LA Times: Ralph Vartabedian: The Hunt for dollars to build the $64-billion bullet train
    With the Obama administration on its way out, it seemed like a good time to nail down more long-term federal support on the assumption that Hillary Clinton would be the next president.
    So the state set up a meeting to ask the U.S. Department of Transportation to publicly announce a federal loan of up to $15 billion that would help build an initial rail segment from San Jose to Shafter, northwest of Bakersfield, which would cement federal support during the transition to a new presidential administration.
    Such a loan — even the commitment for one — would also show potential private investors that the project was “creditworthy,” according to a briefing document for the meeting.
    But federal officials did not go along with the state’s suggestion…

    Meanwhile, the election of Republican Donald Trump makes the rail authority’s funding problem more serious than ever.
    The project has long been vilified by congressional Republicans, particularly by House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Bakersfield), who has called it a “boondoggle” that was “doomed to fail from the start.”
    And House rail subcommittee Chairman Jeff Denham (R-Turlock) has vowed to block any future federal funding for the project, citing long-standing concerns about its poor management controls and planning.
    Senior congressional staffers say they don’t have any direct knowledge of Trump’s views or those of Elaine Chao, his pick for Transportation secretary, but they doubt they will attempt to challenge the existing Republican opposition to the project…

    The Obama administration provided $3.5 billion in grants. ***And California lawmakers gave the project rights to 25% of the proceeds from the state’s greenhouse gas permit auctions, but those funds have fallen sharply below expectations this year…
    http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-bullet-train-cash-20161224-story.html

    25 Dec: Toronto Sun Editorial: Cap-and-trade: This won’t end well, Ontario
    With Premier Kathleen Wynne’s cap-and-trade plan poised to take effect Jan. 1, there’s bad news … and then there’s more bad news.
    The initial bad news is that even the Liberal government admits it’s going to cost the average Ontario household $156 more annually to start, while the government’s own figures suggest it will be closer to $400 per year.
    Ontario auditor general Bonnie Lysyk, in her 2016 annual report, said the Liberals expect to make $8 billion from cap-and-trade from 2017 to 2020, in return for only a small reduction in industrial greenhouse gas emissions linked to climate change.
    Most of that $8 billion will be paid by Ontario consumers in the form of higher prices for most goods and services, because most are created and transported using fossil fuel energy…

    In the past few months on the California, Quebec cap-and-trade market, which Ontario will eventually join, the value of carbon permits, the stock of cap-and-trade, has fluctuated wildly.
    In two previous auctions of permits to industry by the Quebec and California governments, they received only a fraction of the money they anticipated, throwing the financing of many so-called “green” infrastructure projects into doubt…
    If there’s a strong demand for carbon permits, then businesses that buy them from the government simply pass along their increased costs to the public in the form of higher retail prices.
    But if the carbon market crashes, then governments have to use taxpayer money if they want to meet their green energy commitments…

    If the Liberals were serious about reducing emissions through carbon pricing they would have introduced an open and transparent, 100% revenue neutral carbon tax, with all the money raised returned to the public as grants or tax cuts.
    But that would have been a plan to lower emissions, not increase government revenues…
    http://www.torontosun.com/2016/12/25/cap-and-trade-this-wont-end-well-ontario

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    RB.

    Off topic but related to that court case that was mentioned. I looked up “paedophile teacher” in Trove and the earliest news paper story that I got was in 1916. A teacher from a Melbourne suburban grammar school was convicted of attempted “unnatural offenses” on a ten year old after getting acquitted previously. Then there were 2 stories that were tagged but for no obvious reason. The next story to actually discuss paedophilia was in 1977.

    Paedophile meeting
    LONDON, Tuesday
    (AAP). — A British organisation — with members from the teaching profession and social workers — is to hold its first public meeting next week to campaign for legal sexual relations between adults and children, the Press Association reported.
    The Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE), which claims at least 250 members mainly from professional groups dealing with juveniles, says it wants to “bring into the open” discussion about adults who are sexually attracted to children.

    250 professionals dealing with juveniles openly went to the meeting while there were 6 Catholic clergy convicted of molesting children in the UK (googling just paedophile and priest seems to only bring up Catholic priests).
    It just goes to show how much the whole of society stuck its head in the sand and still mostly does unless its an accusation against a Catholic priest.

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    • #
      Robert Rosicka

      RB , search around and you will find the greens policy for sex that was hashed up between Bob Brown and a crony way back when they first started .
      The greens have more policies than they will admit and release for public scrutiny .
      Some of these original policies say that whatever your sexual persuasion you can’t be tried for a crime .
      Now just think about that , necrophilia , beasteality, pedophiliea and more all to be legal with no such thing as a sex crime .

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    pat

    ***let the youths see how they fare without fossil fuels, I say:

    30 Dec: Bloomberg: Tillerson Climate-Change Testimony Set Before Trump Sworn In
    by Kartikay Mehrotra
    Lawyers for teenagers claiming the U.S. government failed to protect the environment from global warming plan to question under oath President-elect Donald Trump’s pick for secretary of state on his knowledge of climate change.
    Exxon Mobil Corp. Chief Executive Officer Rex Tillerson’s testimony, set for the day before the Jan. 20 inauguration, is being sought by lawyers representing 21 children and teenagers seeking to prove that oil and gas industry groups “have known about the dangers of climate change since the 1960s and have successfully worked to prevent the government” from taking action…

    ***The youths from across the country claim that by perpetuating the use of fossil fuels, the government has trampled their constitutional rights to life, liberty and property…
    https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-12-29/tillerson-climate-change-testimony-sought-before-trump-sworn-in

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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Send those 21 children and teenagers on vacation to Alaska, in the winter, but without any form of fossil fuels. Lets see what their case is, next summer.

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    pat

    DrudgeReport is back up with IBT article linked from this Drudge statement:

    UPDATE: ATTACK ON DRUDGEREPORT.COM LASTED 90 MINS…

    29 Dec: InternationalBusinessTimes: Cristina Silva: US Government Attacks Drudge Report? Conservative Website Down Because Of Distributed Denial Of Service Attack, Matt Drudge Tweets
    A tweet from conservative media icon Matt Drudge’s verified Twitter account Thursday night appeared to accuse the government of interfering with his website, DrudgeReport.com, just hours after the Barack Obama administration announced new sanctions against Russia over election hacking.
    “Is the US government attacking DRUDGE REPORT? Biggest DDoS since site’s inception. VERY suspicious routing [and timing],” the tweet to Drudge’s 457,000 followers read…

    Drudge Report was down briefly around 7 p.m. EST, but working hours later. The top headline read: “MOSCOW MOCKS OBAMA ‘LAME DUCK’” Meanwhile, the conservative Washington Times wrote: “Matt Drudge suggests U.S. government cyberattack on Drudge Report website. DDoS attack comes same day Obama announced countermeasures against Russia for hacking of Democrats.”…
    Conservatives on Twitter also accused the government of shutting down the Russian news website, RT. “Numerous reports of Russian state-run Network RT being unavailable. Drudge Report also under ‘Biggest DDoS attack since site’s inception,’” wrote one user…
    http://www.ibtimes.com/us-government-attacks-drudge-report-conservative-website-down-because-distributed-2467391

    funny how FakeNewsMSM barely, if ever, mentions Julian Assange has stated multiple times Russia was not behind their email releases…and FakeNewsMSM almost universally refused to carry anti-Putin, anti-Brexit Craig Murray’s revelations to UK Daily Mail:

    14 Dec: UK Daily Mail: EXCLUSIVE: Ex-British ambassador who is now a WikiLeaks operative claims Russia did NOT provide Clinton emails – they were handed over to him at a D.C. park by an intermediary for ‘disgusted’ Democratic whistleblowers
    Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan and associate of Julian Assange, told the Dailymail.com he flew to Washington, D.C. for emails
    He claims he had a clandestine hand-off in a wooded area near American University with one of the email sources
    The leakers’ motivation was ‘disgust at the corruption of the Clinton Foundation and the ’tilting of the primary election playing field against Bernie Sanders’
    Murray says: ‘The source had legal access to the information. The documents came from inside leaks, not hacks’…
    By Alana Goodman In Washington, DC

    He said the leakers were motivated by ‘disgust at the corruption of the Clinton Foundation and the tilting of the primary election playing field against Bernie Sanders.’
    Murray said he retrieved the package from a source during a clandestine meeting in a wooded area near American University, in northwest D.C. He said the individual he met with was not the original person who obtained the information, but an intermediary…
    His account cannot be independently verified but is in line with previous statements by Wikileaks – which was the organization that published the Podesta and DNC emails…

    He suggested that Podesta’s emails might be ‘of legitimate interest to the security services’ in the U.S., due to his communications with Saudi Arabia lobbyists and foreign officials…
    ‘I don’t understand why the CIA would say the information came from Russian hackers when they must know that isn’t true,’ he said. ‘Regardless of whether the Russians hacked into the DNC, the documents Wikileaks published did not come from that.’
    Murray was a vocal critic of human rights abuses in Uzbekistan while serving as ambassador between 2002 and 2004, a stance that pitted him against the UK Foreign Office…

    ‘The Clinton camp has been able to project a neo-McCarthyist hysteria that Russia is responsible for everything,’ Assange told John Pilger during an interview in November.
    ‘Hillary Clinton has stated multiple times, falsely, that 17 US intelligence agencies had assessed that Russia was the source of our publications. That’s false – we can say that the Russian government is not the source.’…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4034038/Ex-British-ambassador-WikiLeaks-operative-claims-Russia-did-NOT-provide-Clinton-emails-handed-D-C-park-intermediary-disgusted-Democratic-insiders.html

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    pat

    29 Dec: WaPo: Jason Samenow: Rare coast-to-coast cold snap to engulf Lower 48 late next week
    (This story has been updated.)
    Frigid air will grip an unusually large portion of the Lower 48 states in just over a week’s time. The cold is predicted to consume almost the entire nation, from the Pacific Northwest to the Southeast, sparing only Florida.
    While some parts of the country are forecast to experience temperatures 30 to 50 degrees colder than normal, the cold snap will be most remarkable for the amount of real estate it is predicted to cover…
    COMMENT: hammerstamp: The Russians hacked the glowbull thermostat.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2016/12/29/rare-coast-to-coast-cold-snap-to-engulf-lower-48-late-next-week/?utm_term=.4c181d9143d0

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    pat

    character? McCain, Graham? no wonder the public LOATHES politicians.

    29 Dec: Sky News: John McCain questions Rex Tillerson’s Russia links
    Senators have also called for sanctions against Russia following allegations of hacking during the US presidential elec
    Senator John McCain has questioned whether Donald Trump’s nominee to be Secretary of State is too closely linked to Russia…
    The US Senate has to vote to approve Mr Tillerson’s appointment and although many Democratic senators have expressed doubt, Senator McCain has now indicated that some Republicans are worried too.
    He said: “I and several of my colleagues have concerns about Mr Tillerson, and some of his past activities, specifically his relationship with Vladimir Putin.
    “I have concerns but at the same time I’m certain we will give Mr Tillerson an opportunity to make his case about ***why he is qualified to be Secretary of State.”
    Senator McCain made his comment during a visit to the Baltic states with fellow US Senators Amy Klobuchar and Lindsey Graham.
    The trio also demanded answers to claims from the CIA and FBI that Russian hackers tried to swing the US presidential election in Mr Trump’s favour…
    http://news.sky.com/story/john-mccain-questions-rex-tillersons-russia-links-10710959

    ***qualified? Hillary Clinton and John Kerry were qualified? lol.

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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Yes, if somebody is going to try and swing the US Presidential election, it should be the Democrats, and not some foreigners who just don’t understand how these things are properly, done in the USA.

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      • #
        Frank

        RW,
        I’ll go out on a limb and say that the FBI and the CIA know more than you do , oh, but that’s an appeal to authority fallacy and can’t be true.

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        • #
          AndyG55

          I’d say the heads of both FBI and CIA are still Obama puppets.

          That will change soon, though.

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          • #
            Frank

            And you wonder why you’re labeled a conspiracist ?

            [NO Frank! Down Frank, Bad Frank very bad Frank.

            I'm trying out my 2017 training methods Frank, How's it working for you?] ED

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          • #
            AndyG55

            Poor Fronk..

            he obviously knows that the current FBI and CIA chiefs are Obama/Clinton muppets.

            So funny watching the PANIC setting pre-TRUMP !!

            Once someone honest is in charge, it will be interesting to see where Obama and Clinton end up. ;-)

            Is Leavenworth still operational?

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        • #
          RB.

          The FBI and CIA most likely do. Large organisations that record nearly everything that happens publicly and spy a lot as well. Another thing about the two bureaucracies, only designated spokespeople get to tell the world what they know.

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          Raven

          I’ll go out on a limb and say that the FBI and the CIA know more than you do . .

          That may be so, Frank, but they didn’t offer up anything more than hand waving a bunch of guys who have been on their radar for years.

          No word from the NSA then? They’re the real experts and collect pretty much everything digital.

          Nup . . no evidence of hacking any more than there is of AGW.

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        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          I’ll go out on a limb and say that the FBI and the CIA know more than you do.

          That is true, I have no doubt. But occasionally they share the odd bits and pieces, with people they trust.

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        • #
          Gail Combs

          Frankie never bothered to do his homework before making a comment.

          The heads of the CIA and FBI are both DEMOCRAT Political hacks. They did NOT come up through the ranks as a military leader does.

          Here is Comey for starters.
          FBI Director Comey Took Millions from Clinton Foundation and his brother does the Clinton taxes

          FBI Director James Comey’s Clinton Foundation Connections

          …U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia Joseph DiGenova gave a stark assessment of what led to FBI Director James Comey’s recent decision to reopen the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server, after an investigation into Anthony Weiner’s sexting scandal led to the discovery of thousands of emails on the computer of Weiner’s estranged wife, top Hillary Clinton aide, Huma Abedin.

          The picture painted by DiGenova, based on what he says are discussions with current and former FBI agents, is one of “seething” rage inside the Bureau at the way Comey handled the investigation concerning Hillary Clinton’s private email server. Mr. DiGenova eviscerated the way Comey conducted his investigation and explained that he believes it has tarnished the FBI director’s reputation permanently, telling Breitbart News:

          The original so-called ‘investigation’ was not an investigation. It was not thorough. It was not professional. As far as we know there was no grand jury, which an ordinary investigation would have. There were no grand jury subpoenas, there were no search warrants. Immunities were given out like candy. Attorneys were allowed to represent multiple witnesses and defendants which is completely inconsistent with federal policy and ethical standards. The list is endless.

          The original investigation was not intended to be a real investigation. Comey decided — for political reasons– that he wanted to exonerate Hillary Clinton and the only answer to why he wanted to do that was because he didn’t want to be responsible for recommending the prosecution of the first female nominee of a major political party for President of the United States.

          They followed none of the protocols that they ordinarily would have attained in such a prosecution. And the proof that that is the case is the letter that he sent to Congress, in which he announced that he was basically reopening the case because they had newly discovered evidence which was evidence on the laptop shared by Huma Abedin and her husband Anthony Weiner. If the original investigation had been conducted properly they would have known about that laptop, and they would have known about the tens of thousands of emails that related to the earlier investigation.

          It is inconceivable to me that they did not learn about that other device, given the fact that Huma Abedin was interviewed, she allegedly gave up certain devices — but apparently not this one.

          It’s no wonder that people who I have spoken to inside the Bureau and outside the Bureau view Comey as a dirty cop because they believe he has brought disrepute on the agency. The letter he sent just shows how bad the first investigation was.

          People in the FBI are very disappointed in Comey’s leadership. They believe that he is unfit to serve, they believe he has no moral authority to lead the Bureau, they believe that he has created a double standard of justice established by his investigation into Clinton, that he has undermined the rule of law, that he has no credibility, and that he has become an embarrassment to the Bureau.

          (wwwDOT)breitbart.com/big-government/2016/10/30/fmr-u-s-atty-comeys-hand-forced-by-fbi-seething-anger-at-botched-hillary-email-investigation/

          CIA Director John Brennan Admitted Voting For the Communist Party in 1980… and it goes downhill from there.

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          • #
            Frank

            Gail
            You want to play the ‘conflict of interest game’ ?, start with Rex and other members of the new swamp.
            Also , using Breitbart as your main source shows you’ve given up on facts.

            03

            • #
              PhilJourdan

              As proven countless times over the past 18 months, Breitbart has the best record of any major news source of accuracy. Contrary to your ignorant dismissal, no one has yet proven Breitbart made up any news, or lied about the news they did report (they do not hide the fact they are biased). That cannot be said for any MSM outlet, with the possible exception of Fox.

              So until you can back up your childish rants with actual facts, we can only conclude you are in the pay of the MSM and trying to discredit the only creditable news source available to most folks.

              Sucks to be you.

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            • #
              AndyG55

              “you’ve given up on facts”

              You did that ages ago.

              You have yet to present one single fact in the whole time you have been a entry-level grubby-troll operative on this blog.

              NONE, NADA.. EMPTY.

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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        RW,

        I’d rather not have anyone playing hanky panky with our elections, whether Democrats or foreigners who just don’t understand how these things are properly done in the USA.

        “These things” are not properly done in the USA, period. They are illegal.

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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      John McCain has finally managed to convince me that he’s a fool. His concerns appear to be all about John McCain managing to stay elected and keeping his maverick image.

      So much for McCain. I’ll never understand why Arizona didn’t replace him when they had a much better candidate on the ballot. He was a better war hero than senator and he wasn’t much of a war hero either, having admitted that he was shot down because of his own stubborn refusal to do what he should have done and avoid the missile coming at him.

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    • #
      AndyG55

      “specifically his relationship with Vladimir Putin.”

      Which was almost certainly one of the reasons he was chosen.

      Trump knows how to put the right person in the right place, and having someone who is on good speaking terms with Putin is a MAJOR plus for world stability.

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      • #
        RB.

        Amazing how you can say “has a relationship with” so that it comes out as “he is the puppet of” or “he will get along well with”. Looking at Wikipedia, “Tillerson is a friend of Igor Sechin,[20] the leader of the Kremlin’s Siloviki (security/military) faction” has a citation from politico.com written on Dec 10 this year. His “ties” with Putin cites WSJ from a year ago that he managed to negotiate a deal with Russia’s Vladimir Putin – bascially, doing his job. While another WSJ article from Dec 6 this year is used as evidence that he has had close ties to Putin since the days of Yeltin despite the earlier articel pointing out that Tillerson was critical of the lack of rule of law in Russia 8 years ago.

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    TdeF

    If the Russian hackers are the world’s best, perhaps the CIA could consider hiring them? Much cheaper than US hackers and they work on contract. This hacker stuff is taught at schools and universities around the world. It is also criminal activity. It would be better if the former Secretary of State and her friend did not use Lenovo laptops against the specific advice of the CIA because they contain well known backdoors for advertising and hackers. Has there ever been a more compromised Secretary of State than Hilary? How could her girlfriend’s estranged husband have 750,000 of Hilary’s emails on his laptop in plain English? What a weiner! However the Senate is worried about Russian hackers? Who needs to hack anything when it is all on Yahoo in plain English? Of course that means it still is.

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    pat

    ***time will tell:

    30 Dec: UK Telegraph: Patrick Sawer/Danny Boyle: UK weather: 17 hurt as coach overturns on M40 slip road in thick fog amid New Year travel chaos warning
    The crash at 2.45am followed a weather warning urging drivers to be wary of fog and sub-zero temperatures across swathes of England…
    On Thursday, temperatures dipped to freezing levels in areas such as Suffolk, Gloucestershire, Cumbria, Devon and northern Scotland…
    ***Bookmaker Coral is making it odds-on that New Year’s Day will be the coldest in history in the UK following a flurry of bets…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/29/uk-weather-freezing-fogcovers-swathes-britain/

    29 Dec: Sky News: Health warning as temperatures plunge and freezing fog descends
    Public Heath England issues a “level three” cold weather alert for the first time since January…
    It was issued after plunging temperatures hit northwest England, Yorkshire and the Humber, the Midlands and the east of England.
    A level three alert is put in place when average temperatures are set to fall to 2C, and if either widespread ice or heavy snow is present…

    my fave – some people “said the weather felt cold”:

    29 Dec: UK Evening Standard: London weather: Freezing fog and plummeting temperatures spark weather warnings
    A Met Office spokesman said: “Combined with temperatures below freezing, there is also the risk of ice forming on some untreated surfaces early on Thursday morning…
    ***Other people in London shared pictures of the frost and said the weather felt cold…

    not a mention in any of the FakeNewsMSM of how this fits with CAGW.

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    • #
      Annie

      Oh my goodness; cold weather in England in winter. How very strange! Frankly, it sounds very normal to me! I lived with it for many years of my life including recent ones.
      All the panic and excitability sounds just as silly as ‘news’ rags here having a fit of the vapours over temperatures in the 30sC in summer :(

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      • #
        Annie

        Not to mention that a mild spell in December in England is also nothing to get worked up about. For example: the 13th Dec 1988 was mild, muggy and misty. I remember other mid Decs that were perishing cold. As for early springs; well I can say that it didn’t arrive until late May in 2013; there were snowflakes falling in our village every morning for weeks (in North Yorkshire). I remember many similar years as well as milder ones. So colour me cynical about so-called manmade globalwarming/climate change. We live on an ever-changing planet with an incredibly complex system of weather and climate.

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        • #
          Roy Hogue

          I know your frustration. To hear it told on my evening news, there never has been a rainstorm, snowstorm or a hot summer before in all of human history.

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          • #
            Robert Rosicka

            Roy , I heard the mayor of Albury say the storm they had yesterday was unprecedented, she went on to say that was about 20 years since they last had a storm like this .

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            • #
              AndyG55

              “she went on to say that was about 20 years since they last had a storm like this .”

              chuckle..

              Seems the word “unprecedented” has a new meaning, defined only within “climate séance”

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        • #
          Len

          Any chance of you being able to add to the four Yorkshiremen’s discussions?

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  • #
    pat

    29 Dec: iNews880: Jeff Braun: More Snow On The Way For Winnipeg And Southern Manitoba
    “You had the snowiest Christmas Day on record in Winnipeg. You’ve had almost record amounts of snow for December,” explains Environment Canada’s Dave Phillips. “When you count all the flakes in Winnipeg at the end of the month, we’ll probably have about 80 centimetres of snow. That would make it the second-snowiest December on record. You have to back to 1909 to find a snowier December.”…
    http://www.inews880.com/syn/107/173198/more-snow-on-the-way

    always worth reading again:

    Jan 1989: NYT: U.S. Data Since 1895 Fail To Show Warming Trend
    By PHILIP SHABECOFF
    While the nation’s weather in individual years or even for periods of years has been hotter or cooler and drier or wetter than in other periods, the new study shows that over the last century there has been no trend in one direction or another.
    The study, made by scientists for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration was published in the current issue of Geophysical Research Letters. It is based on temperature and precipitation readings taken at weather stations around the country from 1895 to 1987…

    Dr. Hansen of NASA said today that he had ”no quarrel” with the findings in the new study. He noted that the United States covered only 1.5 percent of Earth. ”If you have only one degree warming on a global average, how much do you get at random” when taking measurements in such a relatively small area, he asked rhetorically…
    Dr. Hansen said there were several ways to look at the temperature readings for the United States, including as a ”statistical fluke.”…
    Coincidentally with the new report, legislation was introduced in the Senate today prescribing actions for addressing the threat of global warming. Senator Al Gore, Democrat of Tennessee, introduced a bill that calls for creating a Council on World Environmental Policy to replace the White House’s Council on Environmental Quality. This change would emphasize the international aspects of environmental issues…
    http://www.nytimes.com/1989/01/26/us/us-data-since-1895-fail-to-show-warming-trend.html

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    cedarhill

    This explains why the Left is so hyterical, bitter and fearful of an Administration that enlists people with traditional values. It’s Kryptonite to them.

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    • #
      TdeF

      Amazing, private operators should be punished for government policies? Which private operators closed the coal generators and blew up the Port Augusta power station? It seems everyone is at fault except the SA energy minister and his government who remain blameless and aggrieved victims themselves. Minister Koutsantounis is just doing his job and as he said, BHP should have known a Labor Green government would cripple the power supply. Alcoa too. Whyalla and Port Pirie. What were they thinking?

      So everyone is at fault for not understanding that shutting down South Australia is official government policy, like England’s floods. How else can South Austrlia have the world’s lowest CO2? How else can they save the planet? It’s not as if anyone was misled. It is a salutary lesson to the world, how to transform a first world country into a third world country in just a few years. This is precisely what Donald Trump is trying to reverse.

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  • #

    It’s quite ironic that we have to point to a cabinet member’s character, when the most offensive thing about Trump is his character. It’s a slippery slope, indeed.

    NOTE: I voted for Trump. I don’t care about his character. I care only about his ability to get sh!t done; to right the ship (pun intended). I would hope that we get away from “…but [this cabinet pick] is a good person.” That’s how liberal politics is done…on do-gooder status.

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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Just a reminder that we don’t know how well Trump or any of his chosen advisors, cabinet heads, ambassadors to the UN or anyone else he surrounds himself with, will do until we see them in action. I can wait until January 20, 2017 to start finding out. And then I think we’ll all know what’s happening and not happening very quickly.

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      • #
        PhilJourdan

        And then I think we’ll all know what’s happening and not happening very quickly.

        We will know by the howls of the media (and the democrats). The louder the howls, the more effective will be the administration.

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    • #

      Bruckner8 December 31, 2016 at 2:14 am

      “It’s quite ironic that we have to point to a cabinet member’s character, when the most offensive thing about Trump is his character. It’s a slippery slope, indeed.”

      Perhaps it is not “character” but “effectiveness” in times of stress! Geo Washington and Abe Lincoln were tested way, way, beyond the capability of any single earthling! Perhaps it is the elusive quality of ‘leading’ others, beyond their individual capability.

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    Dave in the States

    Before Tillerson became a pillar in management, where paying lip service to political issues must be standard operating procedure, he started out as an engineer. Yes, he has some training in the sciences. Energy companies are populated with people trained in the sciences. They have to be. There must be all kinds of engineers, geologists, hydrologists, chemists…and on and on. Unlike scientists sold out in government employ, they test their theories in the crucible of reality everyday. Unlike Gov sell outs they can not simply change the data to get the desired results. Reality, safety, and private sector efficiency and economics, demand competency.
    star comment

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    Martin Hertzberg

    If it is about character for Tillerson, why is it not about character for Trump?
    It is ironic that the megalomaniac Trump may actually be the instrument for bringing the nation to its senses about climate change.

    13

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Tillerson puts me to shame in the jury room. I was foreman and couldn’t get everyone together on the last count against a clearly guilty defendant so we ended up a hung jury. He wasn’t foreman so he didn’t have the responsibility for keeping them all together and working on the case. But he just stepped in and did it anyway.

    What’s not to like about such a man?

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    Roy Hogue

    And before I shut down the computer I’m going to manage to wish everyone a Happy and prosperous New Year on time instead of late as I manged to be with Christmas.

    So! A Happy and prosperous New Year to everyone, to Jo, to all her readers and even to the moderators ;) from me.

    May it be a better year than many in the past have been, a new beginning, hopefully the start of what we have all hoped for and fought to achieve for so long.

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      As of 21 January 2017, da ‘USns’ are under new management. Like in very case, dey can do no worse den da previous! Time out, wait a fucken minute!
      All the best! -will-

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    David Maddison

    O/T

    Here is a good video entitled The Great Global Warming Ho ax which you may wish to show Believers.

    https://youtu.be/52Mx0_8YEtg

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    john

    UPDATE:

    CLIMATE KIDS DEMAND TESTIMONY FROM REX TILLERSON IN LANDMARK LAWSUIT

    http://www.govtslaves.com/climate-kids-demand-testimony-from-rex-tillerson-in-landmark-lawsuit/

    The group of young people suing the federal government for failing to protect their constitutional right to a stable climate is seeking testimony in their landmark case from Rex Tillerson, CEO of ExxonMobil and President-elect Donald Trump’s nominee for secretary of state.

    Attorneys representing the 21 young people in their federal climate lawsuit served the notice of deposition (pdf) on Thursday, demanding Tillerson’s testimony on January 19, 2017 in Dallas, Texas. They claim that “[a]s CEO of ExxonMobil, Tillerson has unique personal knowledge of the fossil fuel industry’s historical relationship with the federal government.”…

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