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Climate leader China, taxes all kinds of pollution but not CO2

Looks like China is going to apply punitive taxes all sorts of human pollution even noise pollution, but they’re not taxing CO2:

Polluters will be charged for contributing to air, water and noise pollution, according to a copy of the legislation on the NPC’s official .

But CO2 did not make the list, which includes air and water pollutants such as sulphur dioxide and sulfite, taxed at rates beginning at 1.2 yuan ($0.17) and 1.4 yuan ($0.20) per unit respectively.

It also stipulates a monthly tax ranging from 350 to 11,200 yuan ($50 to $1612) for .

China is the worlds largest emitter of CO2 and they are happy to do symbolic things for the climate, like sign the Paris agreement where they can commit to do nothing til 2030, and not much after that. But taxing carbon does  actual collateral damage on an economy. China is obviously having none of that.

For a change, the thing that apparently inspired these new laws was a real pollution problem:

The new law was precipitated after 20 cities in Northeast China went on high smog alerts, which forced the closure of factories and the removal of cars off the road. People were told to wear face masks and roads and schools were closed. Airports canceled flights. The smog alert also prompted renewed calls by China’s President Xi Jinping to research clean energy sources and make factories burn cleaner.

 What happened to China — the global climate leader?

On November 15th, Salon.com was worried  that the US had been surpassed, and that China was now the global leader in climate change reform. On December 6th, Noam Chomsky was agog at the spectacle that had unfolded in Marrakech: “The hope of the world for saving us from this impending disaster was China—authoritarian, harsh China.

Last week, the ForeignAffairs.com  gnashed teeth that the US was Ceding Climate Leadership to China. The stakes were pretty high:

“… ceding climate leadership to China would be disastrous for the United States, whose diplomatic standing and position in the race to supply the world’s clean-energy needs would fall precipitously as a result.”

Looks like Chomsky et al can relax. Beijing isn’t going to win the Miss Climate Pageant after all.

Expect green protests about China’s lack-of-carbon-tax to start in 3, 2, 1 million years.

h/t ClimateDepot and GWPF: The Daily Caller” China Won’t Tax CO2 In Pollution Control Measures

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136 comments to Climate leader China, taxes all kinds of pollution but not CO2

  • #
    Spetzer86

    At least they’re addressing real pollution instead of the imaginary kind.

    480

    • #
      AndyG55

      Addressing REAL pollution is definitely something China, and other countries need to do.

      If the huge amounts of funds spent on this ridiculous anti-CO2 campaign had been used against REAL pollution, the world would be a far, far cleaner place.

      Developing countries would have growing economies, powered by low-pollution developing electricity supply systems, (instead of still burning dung and other crap)

      Proper food storage could have become a normal part of third world life.

      Power for lighting and other basic purposes would have help them start to bring their lives out of desperation.

      Decent sewage systems could have been started in third world countries etc

      But none of that has happened.

      Instead of advancing the third world countries, the anti-CO2 idiocy has put a huge brake on developed countries, sending many of their electricity supply systems to the brink of collapse and halting economic progress, sending many into complete reverse.

      The Anti-CO2 scam has been one of the most devastating episodes in recent human history, and it is going to take a long time to recover from it.

      563

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        Andy, the phrase, “instead of still burning dung and other crap”, is redundant when you think about it. Faeces is faeces, lets face it. Sorry mods, couldn’t resist the temptation.

        40

    • #
      Dennis

      Following the example set by the developed world from the 1970s to present day, combating pollution using Environmental Pollution Agencies backed by laws against polluting.

      When the global warming climate change scam began the anti-pollution measures were conveniently ignored.

      111

    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      Dead right, despite being a controlled society the chineese are doing smart things. We here in the west are controlled by our green masters of political righteousness and leftist brainwashing. Who’s worst off?
      GeoffW

      160

    • #
      Phillip Bratby

      They are at last doing what the best western countries did 60 years ago. Pollution control. The Clean Air Act 1956 was an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom passed in response to London’s Great Smog of 1952.

      70

  • #
    Thomas

    But sadly, the U.S. government needed to declare CO2 a pollutant to bundle it under the Clean Air Act, giving the EPA authority to regulate it:

    http://dailysignal.com/2009/12/07/epa-formally-declares-co2-a-dangerous-pollutant/

    Even China is relying on science when making new law.

    80

    • #
      tom0mason

      Thomas,

      Even China is relying on science when making new law.

      Unfortunately China, like nearly all governments, use ‘science’ only as an excuse to make law that will serve their current political needs. As soon as any ‘science’ becomes politically inconvenient it is dropped in favor of whatever is politically necessary — Like foisting AGW theory on a populous regardless of its merit.

      90

  • #

    I suspect that the Trump ascendency may have had something to do with this, but I also suspect that China is happy for the rest of the world to become industrial backwaters while it becomes an industrial superpower. India will surely be next.

    290

    • #
      PeterPetrum

      Which is exactly what Trump meant when he joked that the climate change hoax had been invented by the Chinese to steal a march on the American economy. He knew they hadn’t invented it but were very happy to take advantage of it just for that purpose.

      190

    • #
      TedM

      S[pot on bemused and if only our leaders would show the backbone and common sense to emulate them.

      20

  • #
    John F. Hultquist

    Seems that if Obama is in a room with China’s President Xi Jinping it will be the latter that is the smartest person in the room.

    110

    • #
      Yonniestone

      The room will be smarter than Obama…..or the fly in that room that laid larvae the larvae secretions will be smarter.

      171

      • #
        AndyG55

        The plaster on the wall.. the remnant of a spider wed in the corner of the ceiling

        …. And most definitely the dead cockroach in the corner. !!

        162

    • #
      diogenese2

      Compare and contrast;

      “But even so, a cultural shift seems likely at the White House. Holdren — though, again, hardly an objective source — likes to call Obama “the most science-savvy president since Thomas Jefferson.”

      John Kennedy addressing a diner for Nobel Prizewinners at the White House (Al Gore not present).

      “I want to tell you how welcome you are to the White House. I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered together at the White House, with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone.

      Someone once said that Thomas Jefferson was a gentleman of 32 who could calculate an eclipse, survey an estate, tie an artery, plan an edifice, try a cause, break a horse, and dance the minuet. Whatever he may have lacked, if he could have had his former colleague, Mr. Franklin, here we all would have been impressed.”

      I am in awe still today from my visit to Monticello. For Holdren to mention the two in the same breath exposes a level ignorance grotesque in a “Chief Scientific advisor to the President.
      But ,I suppose, they deserve each other.

      180

    • #
      Rod Stuart

      Obama has just created the “Ministry of Truth” enabling the CIA to declare such news about the Chinese not recognising CO2 as pollution as “fake”.
      Now it is obvious what all the fuss about “fake news” was really all about.
      While we wait on tenterhooks for January 20 to materialise, Obama is busily laying land mines ala Gillard and her entourage.
      (For those outside Australia, the “progressive” government from 2007 to 2013, when it realised it was unelectable, furiously created legislation which a change in government would find difficult or impossible to reverse. In Australia’s case, much of that difficulty is due to a ridiculous interpretation of the role and function of the senate.)

      190

    • #
      TedM

      “Seems that if Obama is in a room with China’s President Xi Jinping it will be the latter that is the smartest person in the room.”

      By a light year or two.

      11

      • #
        stan stendera

        You are flat wrong TedM. President elect Trump has a very high IQ. For example he has a MBA from the Wharton school in Philadelphia. If you are American, you must be a Democrat koolade drinker.

        12

        • #
          AndyG55

          ???? Ummmmm…. Ted was talking about Obama. ?

          Obama is most definitely not the sharpest tool.

          61

          • #
            Climateskeptic

            ..and all coming from those that constantly complain about ad hominems…the irony.

            11

            • #
              AndyG55

              roflmao.

              I told everyone you would be back in two weeks :-)

              And here you are.

              11

              • #
                KinkyKeith

                Well done Andy, you seem to be able to predict what Climateseptic is going to do.

                Do you think he/she/it/LGBTI is going to comment on the Sustainability of South Australia’s power system and do you think there will be comment on the pending unemployment boom about to hit SA?

                In the absence of any comment from that source what are your own views on the state of governance in SA?

                KK

                11

              • #
                AndyG55

                I think the dole must go in, fortnightly, on a Wednesday evening.

                Hence CS is able to visit once a fortnight for a day or so until his net allocation runs out.

                Some weeks, he actually finds something more important than trolling realist sites to spend his gran’s hard earned dole on, so we don’t see him.

                10

              • #
                AndyG55

                “what are your own views on the state of governance in SA?”

                My views.. Well, being kind to avoid being {snipped}….

                Its pretty obvious that SHY is by far the brightest of the Labor/Green politicians in SA.

                10

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Would ‘ceding climate leadership’ be the equivalent to,

    - Abdicating the Iron Throne.
    - Stepping down as Quidditch Captain.
    - Opting out as Chief Diversity Officer.
    - Not becoming Professor of Creative Writing at EAU.

    71

  • #
    Mark M

    Guess those 500 barbecues weren’t the problem afterall.

    61

    • #

      I wonder how many BBQs were in operation in Australia over the Christmas period and will be over the New Year period. We had two going at Christmas, as well as an outside electric oven, and will be doing so for the next month at least.

      91

    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      I was obliged to attend a party over xmas to please my spouse, one of those party’s with no shortage of anything. (But that’s ok.) The conversation came round to the Italian bottled sparkling water followed by a comment about ‘those carbon miles’ and ‘knowing’ laughs and guffaws by those present, all of whom I know to be avid climate disasterists!
      What could I do or say? I held my piece fo Elaine’s sake. If I had spoken up the situation would have become a verbal bloodbath. I was,needless to say,glad when it was time to leave! I would be interested in any further comments on similar experiences.
      Geoff

      91

      • #
        bobl

        Must admit at gatherings, when someone comments on how cold it is, I invariably laugh – “Must be global warming”

        91

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          My response is usually, “Temperature happens – get over it”.

          Most people laugh, as the penny drops. They realise that we do not govern temperature. Plus it puts the vapourous luvvies, who swoon over tenths of one degree, into perspective, to the point where conversation tends to avoid any further discussion of climate change.

          81

  • #
    Robert O

    It looks as though the Chinese have worked out that CO2 is not a pollutant, moreover pretty import for carbohydrate production, rather than the rest of the world’s leaders.

    121

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Carbohydrate comes in packets in the supermarket. Surely you are not suggesting that supermarket operators are selling a poisonous pollutant? We must legislate at once …

      20

  • #
    Dennis

    UN Just A Good Time Club

    Donald Trump has questioned the UN’s effectiveness, saying it’s a club for people to ‘have a good time’.

    The Australian

    161

    • #
      mike restin

      Speaking of the UN, this in from Willis E:

      https://rosebyanyothernameblog.wordpress.com/

      41

    • #
      Mark M

      Good times aint cheap!

      Julie Bishop announces Australia’s $200 million contribution to UN Green Climate Fund (abc, 10 Dec 2014)

      “I welcome the fact that participating countries have delivered on undertakings to capitalise the Green Climate fund and with Australia’s contribution have reached a significant total in excess of $10 billion to date,” Ms. Bishop told the conference.

      “This is robbing Peter to pay Paul,” Greens leader Christine Milne said in a statement.
      . . .
      Unfortunately for hard working Australian taxpayers, they are both Peter and Paul who are being robbed.

      How many millions must Australia pay the UN Green Climate Fund before Australia prevents its first drought?

      link: Donald Trump says United Nations just a club for people to ‘have a good time’
      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-28/trump-says-un-just-a-club-for-people-to-have-a-good-time/8150096

      90

      • #
        Rod Stuart

        South Korea has difficulties with corruption. Following the impeachment of President Park Geun Hye, there is a split in the ruling faction.
        I heard on the ABC radio that one faction (the right, they said?) is spruiking that funky, spunk, skunky li’l Monkey, Bunky Moon.
        However, Bunky is embroiled in a corruption scandal of his own in the Unelected, Undemocratic Unreasonable UN.
        Oh, how I wish that Trump shuts off funds to that band of criminals, recalls all ‘mericans from UN service, forecloses on the building, and turns it into condomineums (suggested by Charles Krauthammer).

        70

  • #
    nicholas tesdorf

    When the CO2 ‘pollution’ obsession seized the World and Environmentalism, people began to lose focus on real pollution. The Chinese are now beginning a return to true environmentalism and cleaning up their own back-yard. It is time for the rest of the World to follow them.

    181

  • #
    • #
      Dennis

      BoM Official Forecast

      Warmer start to 2017 likely for eastern Australia
      January to March maximum temperatures are likely to be warmer than average in eastern Australia and cooler than average in Tasmania and parts of northern and central WA.
      January to March minimum temperatures are likely to be warmer than average in eastern Australia, but cooler in the far southeast, and across parts of northern and central WA.
      The current outlook reflects a negative Southern Annular Mode and warmer waters to the northwest of Australia.
      Maximum temperature accuracy is moderate over most of Australia, except eastern SA, where accuracy is low. Minimum temperature accuracy is patchy, with moderate skill across eastern Australia, the Top End of the NT and eastern WA.

      30

    • #
  • #

    What happened to China — the global climate leader?

    Some mandarin figured out how to use a calculator.

    The Chinese leadership is corrupt and could care less about faux global warming. They are more than happy to see their global competitors hamstring their economies fighting a non existent problem.

    The real question is what will China do now that the wheels are going to start coming off the tax payer funded gravy train the moment Trump is sworn in?

    Remember, it is always about the money.

    182

    • #
      AndyG55

      They are the world largest solar cell manufacturer.

      Expect the price to crash as they try to off-load their stock.

      182

      • #
        Dennis

        And extreme Green spin will be that prices are coming down as (we) predicted.

        121

      • #

        That’s already happened, which put the nail in the coffin of many other manufacturers. It’s also why the price of solar panels for the likes of camping dropped dramatically over the last few years, there was a massive glut of panel.

        71

    • #
      Mick In The Hills

      Too right.
      I can’t comprehend the naivete of western politicians who accept every utterance of the Chinese government about climate capers as statements of fact.
      We’re suspicious of everything China does in finance, trade, humanitarian issues and military development, but when it comes to climate pronouncements, everything they put out is ridgy-didge.
      “Climate” is somehow code for “switch off brain”

      81

      • #
        Rod Stuart

        Does any of this sound familiar?
        American Stupidity Top 10 List

        This is so sad; from a proud, strong country to a laughing stock of the
        world.
        Canadian’s Version of David Letterman’s Top 10. Just makes you want to
        shake your head in disbelief, and, just maybe choke someone in charge.
        This is Canada ‘s Top Ten List of America’s Stupidity
        !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        Of course we look like idiots – we are!
        # 10 Only in America … Could democrat politicians talk about the greed of the rich at a $35,000.00 per plate Obama campaign fund-raising event.
        # 09 Only in America … Could people claim that the government still discriminates against black Americans when they have a black President, a black Attorney General and roughly 20% of the federal workforce is black while only 14% of the population is black, 40+% of all federal entitlements
        goes to black Americans – 3 X the rate that go to whites, 5 X the rate that go to Hispanics!
        # 08 Only in America … Could they have had the two people most responsible for our tax code, Timothy Geithner (the head of the Treasury Department) and Charles Rangel (who once ran the Ways and Means Committee), BOTH turn out to be tax cheats who are in favuor of higher taxes.
        # 07 Only in America … Can they have terrorists kill people in the name of Allah and have the media primarily react by fretting that Muslims might be harmed by the backlash.
        # 06 Only in America … Would they make people who want to legally become American citizens wait for years in their home countries and pay tens of thousands of dollars for the privilege, while they discuss letting anyone who sneaks into the country illegally just ‘magically’ become American citizens. (probably should be number one)
        # 05 Only in America … Could the people who believe in balancing the budget and sticking by the country’s Constitution be called EXTREMISTS.
        # 04 Only in America … Could you need to present a picture identification to cash a check or buy alcohol, but not to vote.
        # 03 Only in America … Could people demand the government investigate whether oil companies are gouging the public because the price of gas went up when the return on equity invested in a major U.S. Oil company (Marathon Oil) is less than half of a company making tennis shoes (Nike).
        # 02 Only in America … Could you collect more tax dollars from the
        people than any nation in recorded history, still spend a Trillion dollars more than it has per year – for total spending of $7 Million PER MINUTE, and complain that it doesn’t have nearly enough money.
        # 01 Only in America …. Could the rich people – who pay 86% of all ??? income taxes – be accused of not paying their “fair share” by people who don’t pay any income taxes at all.
        PLEASE DON’T KEEP THIS – SEND IT OUT

        81

    • #
      ivan

      Eddy, are you sure they could care less about faux global warming? From what I can see they couldn’t care less about it. There is a difference in meaning between both statements.

      10

  • #
    el gordo

    The smog this time around has been less severe than previous years because the odds and evens system has been put in place. They have also come up with mist cannons.

    http://thediplomat.com/2016/12/chinas-favorite-weapon-in-the-war-on-pollution-mist-cannons/

    40

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘Falsifying data has become an acute problem. In March, equipment in an air quality monitoring station in Xi’an, Shaanxi province, was found covered with cotton yarn to filter the air and lower the pollution reading to avoid punitive action. Five environmental officials were found to have been involved and were detained.’

    China Daily

    50

  • #
    Yonniestone

    When the ruling class of China decided to it was ok to reap the rewards of capitalism it held little regard for the proles or their environment.

    Solar Energy Firms Leave Waste Behind in China (2008)
    China Shuts Solar Panel Factory After Antipollution Protests (2011)
    China’s Solar Panel Production Comes at a Dirty Cost
    Solar Panel Makers Continue To Ship Tons Of Toxic Waste Thousands Of Mile Away

    The irony in all these types of articles is the acknowledgement of highly dangerous waste from the solar panel industries while taking the alleged dangers of CAGW via CO2 just as seriously, if anyone who researches for these articles can’t tell the difference between silicon tetrachloride and water vapour from a coal stack should not be operating a toaster.

    110

  • #
    TdeF

    I still find it amazing that any one argues CO2 is pollution. There is no evidence at all that CO2 is damaging in any way and every expectation that it is great for the environment, for plants and animals and maybe the planet is a tiny amount warmer, on average. To close power stations, blow up chimneys, shut foundries, manufacturers and tax everyone for no reason and spent a trillion dollars a year on CO2 reduction which does not work or make a difference is still unbelievable. Green fantasies are a fact free zone. I would still love to know how invisible CO2 gets to be called pollution and Hazelwood, a marvel built by another generation is being closed.

    It is our politicians who are the problem as they chase the 10% of swinging voters, ignoring the ‘rusted on’ Labor voters and the ‘deluded’ conservatives with nowhere to go. Surely Malcolm and Shorten and Joyce can now see they are all on the nose? You have to think no one cares because one will get the job anyway. Why don’t the Liberals ask Malcolm to step down? Why don’t the Nationals see that Malcolm is their avowed enemy, destroying their popularity across the country? What deal does Joyce have with Turnbull? Since Gillard knifed Rudd, this country has been deep in civil war, driven by a mad media and their fairy tale stories of pollution while China with deadly real pollution matters little to the Greens.

    241

  • #
    PeterS

    I also presume that China is still in the process of building numerous coal fired power stations. India has recently announced they are building many more over the next few years. World-wide hundreds more are being built over the next few years. Yet we are destroying ours. Why are we committing economic suicide even if the AGW scare were true (which if course is not and so makes us fools as well) when so many new ones are being built all around the word?

    110

  • #
    Crakar24

    Entire state of SA in darkness again!!!!!!

    170

    • #
      David Maddison

      I was just about to post that!

      And this is before Hazelwood is shut down!

      100

      • #
        TdeF

        To say the system is extremely fragile would be an understatement and that is with champion Hazelwood running flat out. It is amazing to hear the SA Energy Minister blame the market when there is no market, only government regulation with such insanity as the RET and a 300% increase in coal prices in Victoria and a government ban on dams, fishing, nuclear and the search for gas.

        The French owners of Hazelwood could be well served to close, a sort of corporate strike and see what happens to Weatherill’s clever system of windmills. It would devastate South Australia, Morewell, Portland and so many businesses but this devastation might be the wakeup call Australia needs, especially Labor and Green voters who find the airports do not work, they are trapped in elevators and traffic lights stop and the beer warms up.

        Hazelwood could then reopen on their terms without having to pay for windmills. Having received half a billion dollars of secret Victorian taxpayer money to stay open and more truckloads of cash proposed for Alcoa and in SA for Port Pirie and Whyalla, it would be time for governments to get out of power generation, handing over our money to cover their absurd policies. Corporate Australia no longer wants cash. From foundries to refrigerators to hospitals to airports, they want their cheap reliable electrical power back.

        What drives this is the 1990s privatization and the Unions wanting to get back in power, so they can strike and force up wages. They want vengeance for being
        thrown out of Victoria’s power and airports and telephones. Only 12% of workers are in unions, but 40% of the public service. It has nothing to do with Climate Change Global Warming, whatever they are. It is all to do with power and Union income. Does anyone really think Daniel Andrews cares about fires or electricity or sustainability? It’s all about cash for his mates who want $36Million from the CFA in union dues.

        No more tax money to cover up Labor Green insanity. It is borrowed money anyway. The government has no money and these secret deals are theft, aided and abettered by a compliant media.

        221

    • #
    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Yes, but just think what the outages are going to mean for the population statistics …

      20

  • #
    • #
      David Maddison

      Excellent! Thanks for posting john.

      Wind turbine fires are one of the most beautiful sights (as long as no one is hurt).

      71

      • #
        ROM

        Being a resident of one of the two most wild fire prone regions in the world and that is SE Australasia and California and with the utter stupidity of further imbecilic government backed wind turbines throughout this SE Australian heavily fire prone region, I truly dread the inevitable wind turbine fire during one of those stinking hot, howling north wind days with its 42C heat and its 50-60 km hour winds.

        With just a fairly stock standard summer day’s weather, two Christmas Day fires here in western Victoria’s Mallee region grain areas burnt out some 2400 hectares [ 24 sq kilometres ].
        I haven’t any information at this stage on how those fires started but they needed 21 CFA and farm fire fighting units to control them.

        And these were the usual very unwelcome but common grass fires that are always a feature of any summer period across the vast open rural regions of non urbanised Australia.

        And we aren’t even discussing wind turbines and their propensity to burn that have been erected alongside of and even inside of areas of the Southern Australian fire prone forests.

        [ As an aside the word around is that the $100,000 a year plus salaried members of the Vic Premier Dingbat Despot Dan's Fireman's Union, a member of which must be present to unlock the doors on the locked fire sheds housing the rural fire trucks, reportedly took some two hours to even show up at these two fires here in west vic.
        Fortunately nobody takes any notice out here of Dingbat Despot Dan and his fireman union thugs demands when it comes to fires in rural areas.]

        The Christmas day were not fires fed by an hours long, unreachable and uncontrollable oil and plastics fed fire atop a 150 metre tower of a wind turbine from which burning material and embers can and do spread for five or ten kilometres downwind in stinking hot strong north winds and heavy changeable wind gust weather situations.

        Made worse by the probability of the fire streaming down wind from the wind turbine source and then a wind shift coming through and the embers and burning materials from the uncontrollable turbine nacelle fire way up on that tower suddenly being blown and dispersed for kilometres downwind in a new and completely different direction as the wind shift creates a whole new and major fire front problem.

        As with any fire, that rapid wind shift situation could very easily turn into a major live’s destroying catastrophe as people and fire fighters get trapped by the new direction of the fire’s spread with a turbine nacelle fire as an uncontrollable and continuing fire source that would further sustain the down wind fire front for hours more until the nacelle and plastic composite turbine blades burnt themselves right out.

        And if you think that the above is a far flung speculation then a check of the turbine data as derived from a study by the “Imperial College London” might throw some light on the subject of turbine fires and the potential catastrophic consequences when such fires will inevitably occur during our hot, dry SE Australian fire prone summer seasons.
        —————————-

        News: engineering; Imperial College London

        Fires are major cause of wind farm failure, according to new research; [ 17 July 2014 ]

        Researchers from Imperial College London, the University of Edinburgh and SP Technical Research Institute of Sweden carried out a global assessment of the world’s wind farms, which in total contain an estimated 200,000 turbines.

        Comparing the only data available, the team estimate that ten times more fires are happening than are being reported. Instead of an average of 11.7 fires each year, which is what is reported publicly, the researchers estimate that more than 117 separate fires are breaking out in turbines annually.
        &
        Wind turbines catch fire because highly flammable materials such as hydraulic oil and plastics are in close proximity to machinery and electrical wires. These can ignite a fire if they overheat or are faulty. Lots of oxygen, in the form of high winds, can quickly fan a fire inside a turbine. Once ignited, the chances of fighting the blaze are slim due to the height of the wind turbine and the remote locations that they are often in.

        Since the 1980s, when wind farms were first constructed, the team found that fire has accounted for 10 to 30 per cent of reported turbine accidents. In 90 per cent of the cases, the fire either leads to substantial downtime or a total loss of the wind turbine, resulting in economic losses.

        The researchers also outline the main causes of fire ignition in wind turbines in the study. They are, in decreasing order of importance: lightning strike, electrical malfunction, mechanical failure, and errors with maintenance.

        101

        • #
          Yonniestone

          ROM twice while driving near wind farms/plants in my area I witnessed fires that originated from turbines thankfully during cooler, damp conditions, both times they were extinguished quickly by the operators using their own firefighting equipment, the second fire I managed to capture on an old phone but sadly lost the images due to later destruction of phone (accident) and crashing of computer (neglect).

          After that second fire I captured I was shortly approached by wind farm employees and ordered to delete any images I captured, I pointed out I was on a public road and they had no power to make such an order, it was only after exiting my vehicle to state my case they decided to leave, I was not going to be chased off.

          “There is no restriction on taking photographs of people on private property from public property.
          According to Victoria Park Racing and Recreation Grounds Co Ltd v Taylor (1937) there is no freedom
          from view, so people who are photographed on their property from a public location have no legal claim
          against you if what is captured in the photograph can be seen from the street. The same applies to
          photographs taken from private land when you have permission to take photographs. You should be
          careful that you are not being a nuisance and interfering with someone’s right to use and enjoy the land
          (see the case of Bathurst City Council v Saban (1985)).”

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          • #
            ROM

            Yonniestone @ #18.1.1.1

            Not sure if you have mentioned this before here on Jo’s blog Yonniestone, say about a year or so ago.

            If you haven’t it is the second time such an experience has been detailed here on this blog where Turbine farm thugs have attempted to force citizens who have taken Pics of a wind turbine farm from a public road have been approached the pic takers and a standover attempt has been made by aforesaid wind farm thugs in an attempt to force the Pic takers to delete the photos they have taken and to move on despite the citizens being quite legally on a public road and not creating any problems for anybody.

            If others have experienced or know of such stand over attempts by wind farm thugs against citizens quite legally taking photos from public lands it appears there is another instance out of a whole series of similar bending the law stand over tactics instances now being exercised by the wind farm scammers leading to a rather serious morally and legally [ and eventually politically ] questionable level of standards for the wind industry as a whole in its interactions with the citizenry, citizenery who are forced by the politicians, held no doubt quite firmly in the “brown paper bag” grasp of the wind scammers, to pay the Wind farm scammers so much of their hard earned for NO perceivable or measurable effects on the climate or for ANY morally justifiable reasons what so ever.

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            • #
              Yonniestone

              Yes it happened before on another occasion when parked on the roadside to make phone calls, the trouble is some people should not be given any form of authority or at least the idea they have some, my theory is the ratio of daily irritations from socially inept persons can be reduced if the regular majority keep them in check, sure they’ll still be annoying but will know their boundaries of affliction.

              41

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Even with real time structural health monitoring of wind turbines this new age asshat engineering of energy production will overide mitigations and fail.

      From National Wind Watch May 2015,

      Wind turbine rotor blades are failing at a rate of around 3,800 a year, 0.54% of the 700,000 or so blades that are in operation worldwide.

      Doesn’t sound too bad until you consider that one fire in the right conditions can burn thousands of kilometres destroying everything with it, even though nature starts fires too the idea is to cut those odds down not increase them with contraptions that only benefit a select few unscrupulous speculators.

      51

    • #
      AndyG55

      Now that is REAL POLLUTION..

      Unlike the H2O condensate from cooling towers.

      82

      • #
        David Maddison

        I am sick of seeing the Leftard media presenting water condensation from cooling towers as smoke from chimney stacks… They are so clueless they can’t even identify the basic parts of a power station or its harmless by-products such as water and CO2.

        91

        • #
          PeterS

          I thought water vapour is a far stronger greenhouse gas than CO2. If it is then how come the Greenies aren’t yelling and screaming for a water vapour tax? Aren’t they barking up the wrong tree (as usual)?

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  • #
    el gordo

    Chinese experts say this is not a meteorological disaster and the authorities should get real. Reading between the lines we can see a people’s uprising.

    http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/1213/c90000-9154301.html

    30

  • #
    David Maddison

    You can see a list of the latest SA power outages at

    https://outage.apps.sapowernetworks.com.au/OutageReport/Outages?searchCriteria=

    Don’t enter an area or post code and you’ll get the whole list. Long!

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    • #
      David Maddison

      I posted a map of the latest SA power outage at:

      https://www.facebook.com/david.maddison.758/posts/10155623648973082

      21

    • #
      Ian Hill

      It doesn’t seem to be affecting Adelaide at this stage but my son’s caught in the middle of it, at Port Broughton in the mid-north. He and his girlfriend left for a camping holiday yesterday in a newly acquired 1994 campervan, pre-booked into a powered site but no power! They planned to buy food at a bakery but it has been unable to open for business. They are relying on credit cards, cash machines and the mobile phone network. Getting petrol may also be difficult. Both sets of parents are on standby in case they need assistance.

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  • #
    el gordo

    ‘A recently issued report by the biggest Chinese travel website, Ctrip.com, as quoted by the South China Morning Post says that 150,000 people in China are going abroad in December to escape smog. According to the report, each year more than one million Chinese citizens go traveling because of the same reason.’

    Read more: https://sputniknews.com/asia/201612191048748109-china-smog-travel/

    31

    • #
      Dennis

      I read some months ago that Australia can expect to host more tourists from China in future than we ever experienced from Japan even at the height of the Japanese tourism.

      20

  • #
    Rod Stuart

    Perhaps OT and perhaps ploughing old ground, but this information regarding Fruit Loops is revealing.

    20

  • #
    pat

    no doubt China is well aware of the hypocrisy of others when it comes to CAGW policies:

    27 Dec: TheJournal: Canada’s pipeline plans run afoul of its climate goals
    Environmentalists on both sides of the border are gauging Canada’s commitment to the Paris Agreement
    By Sarah Tory, High Country News
    Last October, many environmentalists let out a sigh of relief at the news that Canadians had elected a new prime minister: Justin Trudeau, a dashing former teacher and snowboard instructor…
    During last year’s Paris climate negotiations, the new prime minister boasted, “Canada is back, my friends.”
    But a rash of approvals for new fossil fuel projects has left many of those hopes dashed—alongside doubts about Canada’s ability to meet its climate goals. In late November, the Canadian government announced long-awaited decisions on three major oil sands pipelines, approving two of them—Kinder Morgan’s Trans Mountain expansion and Enbridge’s Line 3…

    ***In his statement announcing the pipeline approvals, Trudeau said it was “inconceivable that a country would find billions of barrels of oil and leave it in the ground while there is a market for it.” …

    Even though Alberta has promised to limit tar sands emissions at 100 megatons per year, the potential addition of the blocked Keystone XL pipeline — ***which Trudeau supported and President-elect Donald Trump has promised to resurrect—means there may be financial pressure to use it to full capacity…
    In September, the federal government gave conditional approval for a $27 billion new liquefied natural gas (LNG) project at the mouth of the Skeena River in northern British Columbia. According to climate change experts, it could become the largest source of greenhouse gas emissions in the country…
    The impacts of two new oil pipelines will extend south of the border, too. According to a recent report by the Natural Resources Defense Council, the pipeline approvals will create carbon emissions equivalent to 105 coal-fired power plants…
    http://www.the-journal.com/article/20161227/NEWS01/161229900

    27 Dec: Reuters: U.S. refiners cash in on Mexico’s record fuel imports
    By Devika Krishna Kumar and Marianna Parraga
    U.S. Gulf Coast refiners are cashing in on rising fuel demand from Mexico, shipping record volumes to a southern neighbor that has failed to expand its refining network to supply a fast-growing economy.
    The fuel trade could top a million barrels per day (bpd) at times in 2017 as Mexico becomes increasingly dependent on the United States for strategic energy supplies and providing business worth more than $15 billion a year to refiners such as Valero), Marathon Petroleum) and Citgo Petroleum…
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-usa-oil-insight-idUSKBN14B0FS

    30

  • #
    el gordo

    Breaking Nooze

    Israel declares war on the land of the long white cloud.

    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu:

    “If you continue to promote this resolution from our point of view it will be a declaration of war. It will rupture the relations and there will be consequences.”

    40

    • #
      ROM

      Hmmm!
      Israel has an airforce that has consistently kicked ass across the whole of the Middle East.
      An Army that in standards and real actual demonstrated fighting ability plus lots of practice and experience is close to the performance of the so called elite Special Forces in many other countries.
      A small Navy that we don’t hear much about.
      A digital programming industry that runs rings around most other national programming industries and is probably the best or close to it in hacking into other vital national industrial bases or conversely disrupting hacking attempts from outside.
      And etc!
      ———
      NZ has Rereke [ :-) ] and is out of range of all of Israel’s main defence systems except the digital hacking systems which would probably stop NZ in its tracks if the Israeli’s got even a tiny bit serious about messing up NZ’s power network and government systems.

      Oh! The Kiwis do have lots and lots of very big hills to hide in and create all sorts of Problems for any Israeli invasion force

      60

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Not a problem. All in hand. Me, and my mates, John, and his son Bruce, and his other son, Bruce, and his mate, Bruce, and his dog, “Dog,” are on to it.

      We are going to tie bacon rinds on every gate catch, and door handle and window latch in the country. We are also going to declare that all fast food outlets are under martial law, and can only sell Ken Tucky’s Fried Pork Ribs. We have also arranged for our new Prime Minister, William somebody or other, to stand up in the Parliament, and tell them all to bugger off.

      If that don’t work, we will point out that our Maori cuzzies are fearless worriers, and will serve the lot of them with endless parking tickets, until they pack up, and move to a car park in Jerusalem.

      That should fix them.

      70

      • #
        ROM

        Innovative lot of buggers, those Kiwis!

        Guaranteed not to fail, non destructive [ except to the local pigs, ] Biologicaly and religious warfare based defences agains the invading Israelis!
        Now who else would have thought of that!

        However necessity is the Mother of Invention they say and considering NZ’s current defence situation, Bacon rind and Ken Tucky’s Fried Pork Ribs as the only allowable and legislated food stuffs available in NZ during the invasion defence period would no doubt lead to the mass starvation of the invading Israeli forces, thats both of them!

        As for tying bacon rinds onto every handle and window latch, the NZers will obviously need some practice prior to any Israeli invasion.

        So I would suggest they send all three of their armed forces personnel including their administrative clerk, over to Australia where they can practice those bacon rind tying knots and some cooking practice for Ken Tucky’s Fried Pork Ribs on some Indonesian fishing boats that are currently being used in a number of attempts to export a number of bacon rind detesting undesirables and persons of considerable interest and notoriety who are afflicted with a religious anathema to bacon rind products, into the Australian continent.

        Such bacon rind tying expertise could also find a considerable and rapidly growing market along with the NZ dairy products in Europe as well as the Germans and French and Italians are now starting to look for such highly innovative, passive solutions that could use their undoubted expertise in hog rearing and processing to sort out their current “refugee” problems.

        My old German speaking Grand mother if she was still around, would have made an excellent instructor for the NZ armed forces in harnessing all such bacon rind and pork products in the defence of the nation.
        She hadn’t found a way up to when she died on how to catch and preserve the squeal but everything else was made edible so long as you didn’t ask any inquistive questions or which pig it was that was staring at your on the table.

        Do the NZ pigs have a vote I wonder?

        40

        • #
          AndyG55

          “Innovative lot of buggers, those Kiwis….., non destructive [except to the local pigs]“

          and sheep !!

          40

        • #
          Yonniestone

          ‘Do the NZ pigs have a vote I wonder?’

          Well 10.7% of them voted Greens in the 2014 election…..

          31

          • #
            AndyG55

            Again…. that was mostly the sheep. !!! :-)

            11

          • #
            Rereke Whakaaro

            They were only the grunt of the litter-ati — you know all those useless sods who used to write all over the fush and chups wrappings until we realised that is was all proper gander droppings.

            21

      • #
        Russ Wood

        Rerere – your’e getting mixed up between Israelis, orthodox Jews, and that other bunch that live around the same area. When I was working in Israel, the non-kosher butchers (Christian) tended to run out of pork and pork products just before the big holidays! Israelis like their bacon nearly as much as most of the West!

        30

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          Really? You are not having me on? Strewth! You know what this means?

          It means that John, and his son Bruce, and his other son, Bruce, and his mate, Bruce, have got about four and a half tonnes of bacon to shift by the weekend after next.

          We can’t feed it to Dog, ’cause he will just puke it up everywhere. So we are down to serious last resorts. We need to have a fry-up at our new Prime Minister’s place in Wellington.

          They hold a street market outside every week or so, to get rid of the cutlery that nobody wants any more. So we should be able to recoup expenses, once we have cut off all the green bits, and slapped a few slices between two rounds of thin-sliced bread.

          If the Israeli mob turns up, we can give them the bacon with Bruce’s special green sauce. That’ll teach the buggers a lesson or two.

          10

      • #
        Len

        With all these Bruces do you have Rule 2?

        00

  • #
    pat

    26 Dec: NYT: California, at Forefront of Climate Fight, Won’t Back Down to Trump
    By ADAM NAGOURNEY and HENRY FOUNTAIN
    In a show of defiance, Gov. Jerry Brown, a Democrat, and legislative leaders said they would work directly with other nations and states to defend and strengthen what were already far and away the most aggressive policies to fight climate change in the nation…
    Mr. Brown, in the interview, called Mr. Trump’s election a setback for the climate movement, but predicted that it would be fleeting.
    “In a paradoxical way, it could speed up the efforts of leaders in the world to take climate change seriously,” he said. “The shock of official congressional and presidential denial will reverberate through the world.”
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/26/us/california-climate-change-jerry-brown-donald-trump.html?_r=0

    27 Dec: Breitbart: CalPERS reality will end left’s #CalEXIT fantasy
    by (former California State) Assemblyman Tim Donnelly
    http://www.breitbart.com/california/2016/12/27/calpers-reality-bring-calexit-fantasy-knees/

    15 Feb: OrangeCountryRegister Editorial: Pension funds put activism before investment returns
    The divestment of various “undesirable” companies and industries held by government investment portfolios has been all the rage in recent years, but politicizing investment decisions is bad news for taxpayers…
    After CalPERS lost 9.7 percent on its environmentally sensitive “green” energy and “clean” technology portfolio from 2007-13, its chief investment officer quipped that it was “a noble way to lose money.” After all, it wasn’t his money…

    “I’ve been involved in five divestments for our fund,” CalSTRS Chief Investment Officer Chris Ailman told the CalSTRS board last year as the board was considering the divestment of its coal company holdings. “[On] all five of them we’ve lost money, and all five of them have not brought about social change.”
    Once the Pandora’s box of politicizing state public investments has been opened, where does it stop? “If you start going down the list of Fortune 500 companies, I’m sure we can come up with reasons we should divest from each one,” Ivo Welch, a finance professor at UCLA’s Anderson School of Management, told the Los Angeles Times when asked about the UC private prison divestment. “I’m almost left speechless by how we pamper student whims.”
    The same could be said of other environmental and social justice warriors who want to play politics with government workers’ retirement funds. Of course, this could all be avoided by switching public employees to 401(k)-style defined-contribution retirement systems. Activists would be able to put their money where their mouths are by investing their own retirement funds in “green” energy, or avoiding gun manufacturers and private prison companies, and others would be free to try to maximize their nest eggs.
    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/companies-703988-retirement-investment.html

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  • #
    TdeF

    Donald Trump will shake up Washington, the Defence community, the trade people, the Windmill people and all the senior placements of an Obama administration. Already Obama is putting poison pills in foreign policy, declaring in effect old established houses in the West Bank illegal. The 98.3% of Washington will band together with the media and UN to destroy him, demanding he be impeached before he is even President. It will take all of his skill and the support of the Republicans in the Congress and Senate to withstand the media onslaught. If he bites on an onion or looks at his watch or winks on radio, he will be pilloried, parodied and punished. Just like Abbott. The media see it as losing the battle, not the war.

    So it is intriguing how he is putting very strong experienced people in charge. The FBI has to be the first to go.

    On the other hand, he may well be supported by the UK, Japan and perversely, even China. The US is still twice the economy of China and they are strapped together since Nixon. If Russia comes in from the cold, it will be a different world with the major players in the Security council on the one team, maybe even the French when the despised Hollande goes and even Angela Merkel. There will be a unique opportunity to forge a new world economy without the Green madness.

    What would be wonderful is that the Liberal party realised they are on the wrong side of the fence, increasingly detested by their own supporters. A republic, changes to the constitution, Invasion day, no gas exploration, no dog or horse racing, no meat exports and factories closed across the country under Liberal/National government.

    Bring Abbott back. With a Masters in International Politics and degrees in economics and law, he has the proven vision to lead us in this new world. He was the one who called Climate Science crap. He was the one who told Europe they were playing with fire. He was the one who opened champagne when Trump won.
    The others have all denigrated Trump, the incumbent President. When it comes to preferencing Australia vs China, we do not want our PM to be Barking Mad Shorten or Obama’s photo pal.

    What on earth is stopping the Liberals from throwing out Turnbull, or is the party now in debt to him, literally for millions? Has he bought Malcolm’s Liberals?

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    • #
      Rollo

      Sadly TdeF I don’t think Tony Abbott will ever be coming back as our prime minister, but I wish he would make a public statement reiterating that climate change is crap. He had the courage to tell Europe to adopt stricter border protection, ignoring subsequent criticism. Why doesn’t he speak out again on the issue of climate? It’s time for Tony and other high profile people from the liberal party to distance themselves from the climate change movement.

      TONY ABBOTT are you out there? We need you. Someone out there please tell Tony to answer the call!

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  • #
    pat

    27 Dec: WHIO: Kasich vetoes bill to roll back clean energy rules
    By: Laura A. Bischoff
    Ohio Gov. John Kasich on Tuesday vetoed a controversial bill that would have made renewable energy benchmarks voluntary instead of mandatory for the next two years, saying the change would mark a step backward for the state.
    The governor said in his veto message that a wide range of energy options makes Ohio attractive to businesses and helps businesses and residents reduce their utility bills…
    The veto drew immediate applause from the National Wildlife Federation, the Ohio Consumers’ Counsel, National Audubon Society, Sierra Club and others. The benchmarks, set by legislation passed in 2008, require electric companies to gradually acquire more energy from renewable sources.
    The veto drew a rebuke from state Sen. Bill Seitz, R-Cincinnati, who opposes the energy mandates. Seitz promised to strive for a full repeal of the mandates next legislative session.
    “It is apparent that Gov. Kasich cares more about appeasing his coastal elite friends in the renewable energy business than he does about the millions of Ohioans who decisively rejected this ideology when they voted for President-elect Trump,” Seitz said in a written release. “We can only hope that President Trump and his amazing cabinet of free market capitalists will save us from this regulatory overreach of Al Gore-style policies that take unnecessary money out of ratepayers’ pockets.”…
    http://www.whio.com/news/kasich-vetoes-bill-roll-back-clean-energy-rules/PuwH31s0gJkVVSoktX1buK/

    needless to say, MSM approves:

    Kasich breaks with GOP, keeps renewable energy standards
    In-Depth-USA TODAY-59 minutes ago

    Ohio Governor Vetoes Bill to Extend Freeze on Renewable Energy
    Bloomberg – ‎4 hours ago‎

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    • #
      TdeF

      Renewable energy standards? Renewable energy ripoffs more like it. Renewable energy is not sustainable. We are talking a 20 years lifespans for these underperforming, inadequate and erratic sources of occasional power. Where previous generations invested in their future, we are destroying our own infrastructure for no reason which makes scientific or economic sense or social sense. A fantasy based on a premise which is wrong. There is no global warming and who said that was a bad thing anyway. After thirty years of rapid global warming, nothing has changed and no city has drowned. The only flooding in England comes from a government program to let the canals block up for the water fowl and frogs. Birds and amphibians first, people last.

      51

      • #
        TdeF

        Although under Hollande, the frogs are the problem.

        30

      • #
        Robert Rosicka

        Tdef
        I disagree about renewable energy not being sustainable , I have a 5 kilowatt solar system from which I get 8 cents for every kilowatt I put into the grid ( up to 130? Odd kilowatt max) my electricity company then allows me to buy it back when overcast / too hot whatever at the measly sum of 33 cents per kilowatt.
        What’s not sustainable about that ? Well for them anyway!

        00

        • #
          TdeF

          The RET currently mandates LGCs, certificates which sell at $90 a Megawatt hour, close to your 8c. That does not mean they want or use your power. Generally it is a waste.

          This is all paid by the 33c you have to pay, like everyone else. Wholesale is closer to 4c a KW/hr, so the markups are incredible, with the Federal government mandating that electricity retailers have to buy your power. It is then put in the ground. Distribution systems do not work backwards, from low voltage to high voltage, so this is all fantasy. Water does not go uphill, nor electricity.

          Who pays? Firstly you do, at 33c/kw hr. Secondly, everyone else. Who uses your electricity? Almost no one, as you generate it when the sun is up and strong and not when it is needed in the morning and evening. Without the RET, you would not receive a cent. You are part of the system, providing cover for the fantasy.

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          • #
            TdeF

            “allows me to buy it back when overcast / too hot whatever ”

            Firstly, it is not stored. Secondly, when your system does not work or is inadequate because it is dark or too hot, everyone else is in the same boat but they have to pay for their needs and yours as well. The extra capacity to provide has to be in the system and the cost of providing extra peak capacity for your needs is again a price again paid by everyone else who also pays you 9c for your electricity, even though they do not use it. The whole exercise is fake.

            The same is true in Europe where experts predicted the wind would blow in one country and not the next. Great idea but it is roughly the same everywhere, storms or quiet, so wind power does not reduce the need to provide for no wind and no sun. Windmills and solar panels are just a dead load on society and totally unsuitable for high voltage AC distribution. They would work well in a village in Africa or India where people have nothing, but they are subsidized in rich countries which do not need them.

            21

  • #
    KinkyKeith

    As Spetzer says at 1.0 and Andy and a few others, China is a long way behind western and European nations in dealing with the real pollution which once damaged our health and environment forty years ago.

    The CO2 scam has been a godsend to many an industrialist looking to cut costs.

    I need only refer to the actions of various state governments which turned a blind eye to the destructive pollution of our river and Harbour during recent dredging for the new coal loader.

    While I am fully in favour of coal exports the failure to observe basic pollution control measures in that situation was disgraceful.

    KK

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  • #
    Another Ian

    For electric car fans

    “Tesla chargers in Fort MacLeod, Alberta. No Teslas in sight. ”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2016/12/we-dont-need-no-602.html

    10

    • #
      Dennis

      On CH7 tonight Tesla have added another retarding station at a Macadamia Nut seller premise in northern NSW which completes the Melbourne to Brisbane drive power supplies depots.

      And there were no Tesla cars recharging.

      I understand that we can buy one for $130K or so and gain 500 Kilometres theoretical maximum driving range, but if the US Federal Government dropped the subsidies that Tesla would cost closer to $250K. Considering that a Toyota hybrid sedan cost is about one third of the $130K for Tesla my household will not be buying one soon.

      And, we travel west in the real country or Outback, not just along the East Coast.

      40

      • #
        Willard

        Dennis could you explain this US government subsidy that “apparently” reduces the cost of a Tesla in Australia from $250K down to $130k? Or is your attention span only enough to read the clickbait headlines?

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  • #
    Oliver K. Manuel

    Thanks, Joanne, for this reminder that China’s policies are more rational than those of this country.

    60

  • #
    Another Ian

    Jo

    FYI

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2016/12/27/a-remarkably-tiny-global-circulation-model-you-can-run/

    Not so much for the computerese going on just now but for what comes out of the analysis

    10

  • #
  • #
    ROM

    China, China, China!
    All we ever hear and read about is China.

    China, a socialistically controlled economy of 1.355 billion population

    India ; a fully functioning albeit messy democracy of 1.24 billions and likely to pass China by 2020 in population, where private enterprise plays a large part in India’s rapidly accelerating development.
    *

    China’s population growth rate percentage is not in the first 100 of the CIA’s World Fact Book’s data base.

    India’s population growth rate percentage is given as 1.25% or about 92 position in the world’s nation’s population growth rate stakes.
    *
    China; now the world’s largest economy using Purchasing Power Parity [ ppp ] as the metric to measure GDP.

    India has just passed the UK to become the world’s fifth largest economy.
    BUT using PPP as with China above, India now stands in second place to China in the size of the economy, global economy stakes.
    *
    China’s economic growth rate is given as 7.7 % but other figures are lower at around 6.7% per Year.

    India’s annual economic growth rate is given as around 7.3%
    *

    China’s land areas = 9.597 million sq kilometres, slightly smaller than the USA and about 2.2 million square kilometres larger than Australia’s 7.7 million square kilometres.

    India’s land areas = 3.287 million sq kilometres or close to one third the land area of a China that is supposedly so densely populated.

    *
    China and India have almost identical death rates per thousand of population at 7 per thousand per year.

    China; Legal system: civil law influenced by Soviet and continental European civil law systems; legislature retains power to interpret statutes; note – criminal procedure law revised in early 2012
    [ Chinese legal system is communistic and therefore open to interpretation by who ever holds power ]

    India ; Legal system: common law system based on the English model; separate personal law codes apply to Muslims, Christians, and Hindus; judicial review of legislative acts.
    *

    My take!

    China is the darling of the moment but within a decade a new and far more flexible and basically non aggressive democratically governed India will begin to make its mark on the world and could well become the first choice of much of the world’s major businesses due to its democratically govererned political system.

    China witha very long history and culture of dominance over its surrounding nations might well become a pariah for business in a future world due to its ideological rigidity and aggressiveness in whatever its government or the current ruling Politburo decides is the current Chinese policy towards foreigners of every and all complexions.

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  • #
    Roy Hogue

    What happened to China — the global climate leader?

    I think what happened to China is spelled, R-E-A-L-I-T-Y. Those 7 letters in exactly that order belong in the toolkit of every government office on Earth. Let’s stop solving imaginary problems and start on the real ones.

    I can only say, good for China. :-)

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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      And about China: They have been a mixed bag for sure. They are not really friendly with the west. They have masterfully stolen technology from anyone who has anything useful. They have stolen our economic vitality quite literally. They are beginning to surpass us in electronics and other vital fields. We educated their engineers and scientists in our universities and then when those same students graduated we wouldn’t let them stay so they were forced back to China, the very talent we needed to keep here. They want to push us out of the western Pacific. And frankly I cannot blame them for wanting their place in the world. But I’d sure like it to be accomplished honestly.

      BUT! A very big but (single “t”)! There is some wisdom there that the rest of us should adopt if we don’t want to find ourselves suddenly having the stature and the actuality of being a third world banana republic while china becomes the world leader the United States once was but is throwing away as fast as Obama can do it.

      We gave them the means to do what they’re now doing through our own carelessness and I’m sure, intentionally as well. It’s time to learn from our mistakes and to learn from China. Not even a communist*** regime can get everything wrong any more than we in the west can get everything right. But it behoves us to stop getting everything wrong.

      20

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        *** I’ve seen it written in detail with supporting arguments that China is becoming fascist. But whatever they are, they are a force to be reckoned with and a nation starting to get things right while we’re getting those same things wrong. It’s time to throw away our mistakes and start over.

        21

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    Roy Hogue

    Off topic but it’s the best stated argument against the UN I’ve ever seen and though I risk the moderators’ heavy hand I’m going to post it.

    Charles Krauthammer rips the UN a new one.

    And if it’s still there, on the same page we have our so-called secretary of state very publically telling Israel, a sovereign nation, what it must do.

    Is this a great world or what?

    10

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    Ted Cooper

    The news doesn’t seem to have hit the mainstream media yet. But critics of alarmism and the US EPA have long pointed out to “deaf ears” that carbon dioxide is odorless and colorless, and is essential plant food.

    Good on the Chinese for going after particulates and noxious gases.

    00

  • #
    Mat

    Does this count?

    China has announced that in 2017, it will launch a national cap-and-trade program involving six of its largest carbon-emitting industrial sectors, beginning with coal-fired power generation.

    Scientific American, May 2016

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