JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

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Weekend Unthreaded, 9.3 out of 10 based on 19 ratings

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219 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    Graeme No.3

    I got censored by the Australian and I am still sore about it. I wrote “Would commentators please note that the name of the Premier of South Australia is not Weatherall but Weatherill – it rhymes with dill.

    Given his frequent and contradictory explanations for the blackout, do readers think this was defamatory?

    412

  • #
    nc

    I was cruising around the net and found this little tidbit from 2012

    http://theconversation.com/wind-power-why-is-south-australia-so-successful-9706

    Then went into their site but no mention of the outage, funny that.

    140

  • #
    Robert Rosicka

    Noticed that our BOM have changed the minor and moderate flood heights for the fifteen mile creek in northeast Victoria , no change to the major flood level though .
    Makes me wonder if they’re up to their old tricks .

    142

    • #
      Dennis

      Not old tricks, same tricks.

      81

    • #
      Yonniestone

      The BOM haven’t been on the level for quite a while….

      81

    • #
      David Maddison

      Are they homogenising flood levels now?

      82

    • #
      Robert Rosicka

      Bom have replied with a reason for the level changes .
      Hi Robert,

      Thanks for you query on our services.

      Flood class levels are based on the effects of water levels, and you can find the definition of minor, moderate and major flooding, at: http://www.bom.gov.au/water/floods/floodWarningServices.shtml

      Flood class levels across Victoria were recently reviewed in consultation with response agencies and as part of this process the flood class levels at Greta South were changes to better reflect local flood affects.

      I’ve included the information to the original ticket for your reference:-

      20

  • #
    Jim Poulos

    Well as for the BOM – as I have just recently written elsewhere – ‘when you grow the cherries you pick the ones you want’.

    332

  • #
    Robber

    Murray River Basin Flooding.
    Is this another example of a man made climate disaster?
    I was in Mildura and Swan Hill a couple of weeks ago and heard that the Hume Weir was 97% full and they would be forced to release water that could result in downstream flooding.
    The NSW Office of Water provides data on discharge rates from the Hume Weir.
    What that shows is that in the first four months of 2016 they released a total of 1.5 million megalitres of water.
    Then essentially nothing was released May through August as the dam filled.
    But since early September they have released a further 1.5 million megalitres. That has been forced because the dam has been at 97% of capacity. If they had started releasing water a month earlier the discharge rate could have been lower, presumably avoiding some of the flooding.
    Reminds me of the Brisbane floods when they held water until it was too late.
    Are these examples of our weather and climate forecasters getting it wrong because of their climate change beliefs? “We are never going to get enough rain to fill our dams again.”

    263

    • #
      Olaf Koenders

      Are these examples of our weather and climate forecasters getting it wrong because of their climate change beliefs? “We are never going to get enough rain to fill our dams again.”

      Yes. Yes it is. Sorta.

      The Hume weir hasn’t been this full for some years. This is the wettest winter/spring by far up here since 2012 AFAIK. Even I wouldn’t have expected this turnaround and flooding which is much like 1993. Neither did the local rag of a couple years ago, that predicted the same, tired old “drier and drier as climate change blah blah..”.

      However, now that it’s happened BOM should have all the data they need for more accurate predictions, hopefully without bias toward constant dry and fudging figures and propaganda to match.

      The weir operators are only being cautious to retain as much water as possible going by BOM. If they let too much go and the rain isn’t as plentiful as “predicted”, we all suffer water restrictions excepting hypocritical greenies that complain of others yet have 20 minute showers and lavish lawns and gardens.

      60

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      With the Brisbane flood, the Wivenhoe Dam was managed well. The criticisms were unsound, with many of the critics looking for ways to extract money out of it.

      19

      • #
        mark

        Seriously…do you understand the difference between flood compartment on revenue water?

        52

      • #

        Wrong Ted, the fault was with the Water minister and the bureaucratic at the water board. As they were not registered engineers they should have been prosecuted under the Professional Engineers act. Also, so should that hopeless judge Holmes who led the Commission of inquiry. The PE Act requires that anyone providing an engineering service (eg how and when to operate the release of water for safety or any reason) must be registered. It was found that one of the operators at Wivenhoe dam had allowed his registration to lapse (noted when the inquiry was reconvened). He was just given a warning instead of prosecuted because if they had done that, they would have had to charge all the managers and the minister.
        There was plenty of warning about the potential of excess rain and flooding 1/ the SOI had turned in Oct 2010 and it was forecast that normal rain would occur in the summer b) December 2010 had a record rainfall since records began in the 1890′s – over 660mm so the ground was saturated c) the dam was full at the end of December 2010 (more than 100% of drinking level) with the wet summer months to come. d) any competent engineer if not restrained by advice from above would have been releasing water from Christmas 2010 onwards. There should have been no need to suddenly release water on 11 Jan 2011 (note about 350 mm of rain fell on 10, 11 & 12 Jan which could have been accommodated if the dam level had been dropped to 95-100% before 10th Jan (Jan had around 500mm of rain above normal but no where near a record, Feb and March had 200-250 mm in the normal range which could have filled the dam if it was below normal at the start of summer)

        171

        • #
          Ted O'Brien.

          caf. You are doing something unusual, dealing in facts. Thank you.

          The whole truth was ever too long a story. The faults that I find with the system are the various interpretations of forecasting. Weather forecasting generally has a very dubious record. It has improved remarkably in recent years, even before that flood, but had a lifetime of indifferent reliability to overcome. That time it was on the right track, but this was a new phenomenon. The experience had been that not only had there been serious water shortages for an extended period, but the political scene was heavily into the “It ain’t gonna rain no more, no more” mode, especially in the ALP.

          So I could excuse the retention of extra water in Wivenhoe. If this was wrong, it was because the politicians hadn’t caught up to the real world.

          On the morning of the Toowoomba flood I was about to leave central NSW for Ipswich, when my daughter called and said “don’t come, it is raining so heavily that you won’t get through”. That afternoon we saw the Toowoomba and Lockyer flood.

          The next morning I sat and watched the BOM site on the internet, and listened to every news bulletin. It was raining across much of the Wivenhoe catchment and part of the Lockyer catchment at two inches an hour, hour after hour. It appeared to me that the authorities were so preoccupied with the effects of the previous day’s flooding, still continuing, that they may have failed to notice the new rain for about four hours. This was an unprecedented event. It wasn’t the biggest flood ever for Brisbane by a long shot, but so far as I know there was nothing like this on the record.

          We were told that Wivenhoe came within a few inches of breaching. I do not know the details of this. But it was reasonable to be suspicious of forecasts of extraordinary events, especially on the back of other extraordinary events. My view was that Wivenhoe was not badly managed.

          The following Saturday I drove to Ipswich. I was deeply shocked to see house contents piled high in front of the houses, including whitegoods and other furniture which might have been redeemable. The “volunteers” had been instructed by the government to throw out everything.

          For many of those people that pile would have represented everything that they owned. Many whitegoods need only to be washed with clean water to redeem them. And what of the cash stashes, jewellery and other valuables that people hoard? Even record collections.

          It would be a safe bet that every cat burglar for 2,000 miles joined the volunteers. Burglar No:1. The Bligh government!

          40

          • #

            Some more facts- that fool Flannery was paid (something like $280,000) to give bad advice to the Queensland Government and persuaded ( amongst others with their hand out)them to build a desalination plant because supposedly “even if it rains the dams willnot fill). Flannery should have been prosecuted as not only has he no engineering qualifications and no possibility of being registered as required under the PE Act (Qld) if providing an engineering service but he has no qualifications (or understanding) of technical matters concerning atmospheric changes. If the head of the Commission of Inquiry (Judge Catherine Holmes) was any good she should have cited Flannery for breaking the law and recommended that he should be prosecuted. But the Commission outcome was a white-wash. Note none of the Commissioners were registered engineers. There was one engineer from NSW who had some experience with dams but he was not registered as required by the law and he asked no questions or cited the work in the IEAust publication “Australian Rainfall and Runoff” (eg book 6 Estimation of large and extreme floods) or even showed concern about the lack of stream flow measurements. The labor government in Qld has appointed her as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court as a) a reward for the white-wash in the commission, and b) a politically correct female (rather than the best for the job)

            60

            • #
              Manfred

              Provides an valuable perspective on the consequences of dumbing down.

              40

            • #
              Albert

              It is known in Australia that an inquiry is held only when the outcome is known and the Flood Inquiry was the best cover up that I’ve seen

              00

        • #
          Albert

          caf, I knew in Oct that the SOI was dangerous and I expected a flood worse than 1974, the Dec average rainfall was 6 times above average as of 50 years ago and most Queensland rivers were in flood. The Wivenhoe earth dam needed to be protected before the wet, not after. The high water mark proved to me that the panic release was not necessary. The flood inquiry mentioned faulty rain gauges but all that was needed was an observation out of a window and the BOM radar which shows ‘real time’, I watched the catchment filling dangerously with massive lines of storms
          Before Wivenhoe was completed it filled and saved Brisbane from a flood over 8 metres in the city, NOBODY learned that the dam can fill quickly and John Oxley was shown the 12 metre mark by the Aborigines
          The government took no notice of warnings from professionals and watched the dam fill every day then released in the night when it could not be filmed, 60 km of riverbank damaged, 35 suicides and a total of $35 billion damage.
          The builder of the dam was ejected from the Court and threatened with jail if he attempted to make a statement

          00

      • #
        Albert

        5 gates 12 metres wide, that’s 60 metres, lifted 12 metres, that’s 60m X 12m equal to a breach in the dam wall and under cover of darkness so no one could film the spillway ejecting water up to about 50m into the night sky and all with NO WARNING so some people woke in black houses filling fast with water. Hydrology is a science, we know with any release and the tide present we can forecast the speed of the water downstream and how fast it will rise and to what height. Had I known of the panic release, I could have warned many in my area including Police and Fire Brigade and maybe some of the 35 suicides may have been reduced.
        The Government failed to protect an EARTH DAM at the onset of the wet with 93 rivers in flood, some multiple flooded and extra warnings from the BOM and on Jan 5 the BOM was tracking 2 monsoon fronts of the coast of Brisbane, I knew flooding was inevitable as on the Fri, Sat, Sun and Mon before the flood, I went to the Jindalee boat ramp to see how much was being released, NONE. I sent an email to radio 4BC to alert them of the massive amount of moisture heading to the Wivenhoe catchment. The Government also failed to take note of the SOI in October, it was the worst seen in my lifetime and it forecast floods worse than 1974. I know more than I can write here in this forum and I’ve no doubt the panic release was not necessary

        30

  • #
    David Maddison

    A sailor has just left Australia to try to be the first to sail around the world solo in a Westerly direction in a boat just 34ft long. Good on him! Just don’t expect my taxes to pay for his rescue.

    160

  • #
    Dennis

    Wikileaks on Hillary – Google Wall Street Journal

    52

  • #
    David Maddison

    Alan Finkel will be leading Frydenberg’s “independent” inquiry into renewables but he is a “true believer” in renewables and not proper methods electricity generation (fossil, hydro, nuclear).

    Finkel believes in renewables:

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/chief-scientist-alan-finkel-advocates-for-renewable-energy-on-first-day-20160201-gmincx.html

    He believes in battery-backed renewables:

    http://theconversation.com/australias-new-chief-scientist-speaks-on-techno-optimism-renewable-energy-and-encouraging-stem-54231

    It looks like Frydenberg will be getting the answer the Government wants.

    210

    • #
      Olaf Koenders

      Renewable energy is only so at huge cost of initial infrastructure and ongoing maintenance and replacement. Greenies only think of the energy, limited as it is. Meanwhile, SA’s grabbermint and Greens are faffing about trying to explain their current state of “unreliables”.

      81

  • #
    Mark M

    SA Blackout: Energy meeting fine as far as it goes, but real challenge to come

    “Notably missing from the ministers’ communique was any mention of [Doomsday Global Warming] itself.

    The science suggests storms will become more intense over time.

    It’s a little hard to know what the network will need without factoring that in.”

    > Wait. What?

    “The ‘science’ suggests storms will become more intense over time.”

    Incorrect: Renewable energy is one of the most effective tools we have in the fight against [Doomsday Global Warming] and there is every reason to believe it will succeed.

    “It’s a little hard to know what the network will need without factoring that in.”

    Egad.

    These clowns are “factoring in” unsettled garbage they call ‘science’. Good luck, Australia. You will need it.

    The lunatics are in charge.

    221

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      They have just found a new brand of Koolaid.

      Using the term “the science” is a lot like devout Catholics crossing themselves when referring to God.

      Note that, “the science suggests …”, and so they are factoring that “suggestion” into the network, because it sounds like a good idea, even though nobody seems to know what that means.

      Would you like fries with that?

      120

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        I’d agree with the ramping up of the crazy…I notice they become even wild eyed ( cow-like ) when you start closing in on them ….

        I should point out they ultimately have to put down dangerous animals….( and no, I’m not advocating it in case people are wondering…..)

        50

  • #
    Peter

    Excellent article in the English Telegraph. It is the top of it’s most read stories.
    “Experts said Arctic sea ice would melt entirely by September 2016 – they were wrong”

    131

  • #
    David Maddison

    (Video) These ants make a daisy chain to drag a worm.

    https://youtu.be/HUnAoFfLDrA

    60

    • #
      Olaf Koenders

      Wow. That’s something I’ve never seen. Notably, not all the ants are daisy-chaining in the right direction. Seems some have forgotten the directions to home. Next they’ll be using GPS.

      Seems 80% of them have the right direction, which is similar to our “knowledge of the crowd”. The consensus is “this way”.

      60

  • #
    pat

    posting homepage for “latest articles” at Free Republic.
    begin with the following thread, but plenty more on the subject in other threads:

    Mike Cernovich reporting on Twitter that the GOP is in process of performimg a coup against Trump

    http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/*/index

    btw i posted a comment on this co-ordinated political/MSM “scandal” on jo’s “Big Bluff” thread last nite, but it is still in moderation.

    8 Oct: Bloomberg: This Was the Week the World Got Really Anxious About Globalization’s Future
    Markets might never be the same again.
    by Sid Verma & Julie Verhage
    “The emergence of Donald Trump as a political force reflects a mood of growing discontent about immigration, globalization and the distribution of wealth,” write analysts at Fathom Consulting, a London-based research firm. Their central scenario is that a Trump administration might be benign for the U.S. economy. “However, in our downside scenario, Donald Dark, global trade falls sharply and a global recession looms. In this world, isolationism wins, not just in the U.S., but globally,” they caution.
    Analysts at Standard Chartered Plc agree that the tail risks of a Trump presidency could be significant. “The main risk with potentially tough negotiating tactics is that trade partners could panic, especially if global coordination evaporates.”…
    No matter who wins in November, Citigroup Inc. Head FX Strategist Steven Englander warns that investors are failing to hedge against ***rising event risks…READ ALL
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-08/this-was-the-week-the-world-got-really-anxious-about-globalization-s-future

    ***rising sea level? rising extreme weather events? lol.

    8 Oct: Financial Times: Trump angst looms over economic elite at IMF meetings (SUBSCRIPTION REQ)

    40

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Actually we are at a tipping point – Trump is just the catalyst to kick off coming revolt across the planet *against* the globalists….he is a lightning rod for anti-globalisation anti-UN anti-wrecking the west way oflife by the globalists.

      the Elite will want the Donald stone cold dead if he truly is a force against them……

      Intersetingly – why is it that in the USA FEMA has so many camps ready for occupants, and every school in Australia now has a FEMA-style 6 foot high black fence around it? And why are there indefinite detention laws in place, and 18C in operation and why is it anyone can be labelled a terrorist?

      And why are the police now paramilitary and trained in locking down whole cities?

      93

      • #
        philthegeek

        and every school in Australia now has a FEMA-style 6 foot high black fence around it?

        No they dont. paranoid loony fantasy with no foundation in actual fact.

        20

        • #
          Retired Now

          All our local schools now have 6 foot high fences around them and only some of them had them when we arrived in 2000. I think it had a lot more to do with avoiding vandalism than FEMA-style ideas.

          20

          • #
            philthegeek

            I think it had a lot more to do with avoiding vandalism than FEMA-style ideas.

            Quite a few here dont have security fencing and ones that do are mainly in areas where there is a record of vandalism. The private ones often do but that’s cos they are snobs. :)

            21

            • #
              Annie

              Maybe they are just trying to avoid having the children sending nuisance balls over from the grounds and annoying the neighbours. FYI, we used to be much plagued by ill-controlled children at a local primary school and endless invasions of our home by children who should not have left the school premises anyway; this was in Melbourne and it was a state school.

              20

            • #
              AndyG55

              I’m in Newcastle, NSW, and I’m pretty sure that every high school and most primary schools have the standard 1.8m aluminium fence. There maybe a couple of primary schools that haven’t had this treatment yet.

              The main reason is to stop vandalism and unwanted trespassers.

              10

          • #
            Hivemind

            Mostly, they’re to keep the students from escaping. Although considering what I hear about teacher morale, maybe they are needed to keep the teachers from escaping.

            30

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Actually its not paranoid at all, old chum, it all takes time to put them up right across the country.

          Next time you’re out, every time you past a govt school check if it has a 6′ fence or not.

          The original “sell” was vandalism, the alter-use is a human containment facility…..

          20

  • #
    el gordo

    A sobering reminder that temperatures have to fall by 0.8 and stay below the line for a few years if we hope to win the debate.

    http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/UAH_LT_1979_thru_September_2016_v6.gif

    60

    • #
      toorightmate

      Who is having a debate that climate is not changing?
      It always has and always will.

      61

    • #
      Peter C

      Yes 2016 is not following 1998 precisely. Leading indictors like sunspots and sea ice extent suggest that the Global temperature will come down sooner rather than later but the UAH monthly figures are resistant.

      One thing I have wondered about are the possible errors in the UAH measurements. It seems that the Global temperature as presented can vary by more than a degree over the course of a year but in a random way. Is that measurement error?

      Insolation varies by almost 90W/m2 over the course of a year, between aphelion and perihelion, yet this does not seem to affect the global temperature in the slightest which points to a large inertia in global temperature.
      http://www.geog.ucsb.edu/ideas/Insolation.html

      So do the little up and down jiggles in the UAH record have any meaning at all?

      100

      • #
        el gordo

        Lets go with the UAH for the moment, but at the same time look for signs in the weather.

        http://jennifermarohasy.com/2016/10/understanding-wild-wet-weather-across-southern-australia/

        As a cyclist I’m punting on 2016 being similar to 1878 and next year there should be a tipping point.

        52

      • #
        Olaf Koenders

        Peter C;

        thanks for mentioning inertia in global temps. You read my mind.

        We’re still seeing the tail end of the El Nino and previously higher Solar activity that’s ever so slightly warmed the large buffer we call the oceans. If 1998 – 2016 is in the middle of an oceanic cycle, temps might drop off quick in a few years.

        I think the up/down jiggles you mention in UAH are due to seasonal variations coupled with cloud albedo, seasonal temp variations and ocean currents.

        61

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      Whatever the degrees might be, that chart shows no carbon footprint. Something else is bigger.

      40

      • #
        el gordo

        Natural variables rule.

        20

      • #
        Peter C

        Whatever the degrees might be, that chart shows no carbon footprint.

        Is that the case! The UAH chart goes from 1968 to 2016. There is an unsteady upward tend over that period. CO2 has also gone up.

        How does one say that there is No Carbon Footprint over that period? For sure there is the PAUSE but that is currently busted!

        12

        • #
          AndyG55

          1. The UAH chart does not go from 1968

          2. There has NOT been a steady upward trend.

          There has been a steady, basically zero, trend with one main step at the 1988 El Nino.

          We do not know yet where the temperature will settle after the full effects of the

          current El Nino has passed.

          No warming from 1980 – just before 1998 El Nino.

          https://s19.postimg.org/iwoqwlg1f/UAH_before_El_nino.png

          No warming from the finality of that event in 2001, to the start of the 12015 EL Nino.

          https://s19.postimg.org/b9yx58cxf/UAH_after_El_nino.png

          Note the 2010 El Nino did not lead to a step change like the 1998 El Nino did.

          24

          • #
            Peter C

            Yes the chart starts in 1979. I was wrong.

            I said that the global temperature as depicted has an unsteady upward trend so we are in furious agreement there.

            My point is not that I agree with the carbon footprint idea because I do not. What I was trying to say is that the chart cannot be used to show that there is no carbon footprint.

            00

            • #
              AndyG55

              ” What I was trying to say is that the chart cannot be used to show that there is no carbon footprint.”

              On the contrary, that is exactly what it shows.

              The ONLY warming has come from NON-CO2 El Nino events.

              There is no other warming

              05

        • #
          AndyG55

          ie .. the ONLY warming has come form El Nino events… which are nothing to do with CO2

          14

        • #
          Ted O'Brien.

          Whatever the carbon footprint is, it is regular. That chart is too irregular to read whatever the carbon footprint is in it.

          02

  • #
    David Maddison

    I am surpriised that I haven’t heard anyone yet blame Hurricane Matthew on “climate change”.

    43

  • #
    Mark M

    Reviewing renewable energy policies.

    Did light globe replacement stop Global Warming?

    ABC, Feb 27, 2007: Turnbull pushes for efficient light bulbs

    “The Federal Government will today announce its intention to phase out incandescent light bulbs within three years.

    By 2010 the government hopes Australians will have ditched the energy hungry devices in favour of compact fluorescent lights.

    EMMA ALBERICI: Lighting is said to represent about 25 per cent of commercial sector greenhouse gas emissions, what about all the businesses around the country that leave their lights on at night? Will you consider fining them?

    MALCOLM TURNBULL: No, I don’t think that we’re likely to be doing that.

    EMMA ALBERICI: Why not?

    MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well Emma, I think you’ve got to look at measures that are, that are effective, and ultimately you know, you say you want to fine a business with its lights on.
    How do you know when you see the lights on in a business, how do you know whether the floor is empty, whether there are people working there, whether there are cleaners working there?

    Note to Malcolm: See South Australia businesses without lights, incandescent, fluorescent or halogen, because of blackout.
    . . .
    Aside from the fact Turnbull failed to see the replacement of his “enviro-friendly light-globes” with halogen, incandescent light-globe replacement was a 100% Failure if it was to stop storms like the one that blacked out South Australia.

    Accountability please Malcolm.

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    • #
      David Maddison

      The humble incandescent light globe was much underrated. It was incredibly cheap and in winter its heat was not wasted. CFL’s are complicated with large numbers of components and with all the complexity one assumes they use a lot of energy to manufacture.

      If you look at the lifetime energy cost to manufacture and use for the two globe types I would be very surprised if the incan didn’t have a much lower energy use.

      112

      • #
        Dennis

        And be a far safer landfill disposal item

        120

      • #
        tom0mason

        And all fluorescent bulbs whether compact or not, contain the poisonous elementary Mercury.
        How many home users and recycle centers correctly dispose of these dangerous toxic vessels? How many have leaked their content into the ground water, or entered the food chain?

        50

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        I like the fact the incadescent was a simple device and while not overall energy efficient, it could take quite a pounding and survive. Modern LEDs etc, I’m less sure of in terms of long term durability…..

        ON a related but slight deviation in topic, I think its an interesting commentary on the modern desire to have good stuff but cheap. Ironically, what happens is that the rubbish gets priced up so it has a look and feel of substance, but underneath is still rubbish.

        We went looking for ovens one day – I judged an oven by its door and controls – I figured if it looked flash but the door was clunky and the controls didnt have that nice click-click action you get from a good car gearbox, then it was rejected. I found a lot of manufacturers make their gear look flash, but its rubbish underneath, and youre paying decent money – thats called a rip-off.

        In the end it we bought an expensive AEG oven, but it did pass the door & controls test – the idea being if they had put effort into the door and controls, the rest of the oven was likely OK.

        50

    • #
      Olaf Koenders

      The Federal Government will today announce its intention to phase out incandescent light bulbs within three years.

      What the hell will I do when the incandescent bulb in my microwave blows then? I can’t use a CFL in there, same as anyone with a light inside their electric oven! Only an incandescent will survive the heat/radiation.

      AFAIK, CFL’s use a dropper resistor to increase their power draw so that their use can actually be measured. I may be wrong. Resistors are necessary in any such circuit though, especially for LED’s.

      51

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Every engineer, chemist, etc. knows that Tungsten is fare more friendly that Mercury! ;) But NOT politicians.!

      00

  • #
    David Maddison

    Greentards keep telling us renewables are or soon will be cheaper than proper methods of electricity generation. They also tell us that the intermittency problem can be solved by batteries.

    I think we should make them prove it.

    We rationalists need to start pushing the idea that people can have renewables as long as they are prepared to fully pay for them and they must be on their own grid completely disconnected from the traditional grid. Renewables must also never be allowed to be backed up by fossil / hydro / nuclear plant.

    This way we won’t have to use rational argument against them which they neither understand or accept but we will be using their own two most powerful “arguments”, supposed low cost and battery backup to solve the intermittency problem, against them.

    How could they possibly refute this logic?

    123

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Easy…they are driven by trying to drag every country back to the stone age to the “glorious” days of anti-human religion of Communism….. ideology knows no logic or reason….

      Marx was basically paid by the elite while living inLondon to come up with a ethos to create tension and create and anti-human world.

      The green plague is just the outworking of this evil.

      82

    • #
      Olaf Koenders

      Greentards keep telling us renewables are or soon will be cheaper than proper methods of electricity generation. They also tell us that the intermittency problem can be solved by batteries.

      Of course it is and they can.

      Get all the Greentards to charge their home batteries with bicycle pedalling their “green” generators. When a Greentard dies from exhaustion (or goes missing in order to attend a tree-spiking protest), they’re simply “renewed” by replacement with another. Everyone’s happy.. :)

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    PeterS

    Trump haters in the US are stepping up their anger. They are now even burning the America flag!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucKtNA1iGGQ

    30

    • #
      Dennis

      Are they carrying the Clinton Foundation Flag instead, or the UN IPCC Flag?

      71

      • #
        PeterS

        No, more likley the ISIS flag. After all it is well known the US helped to form them in the first place with the express aim to bring down the Syrian regime.

        51

        • #

          Wikileaks has documents showing Hilary selling weapons to ISIS!

          60

        • #
        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          You have got to be careful about which ISIS you are referring to; the Egyptian god of fertility? Or one of a dozen companies with names that have that acronym?

          If you must use an acronym, call it ISIL, for Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant.

          In the Arabic-speaking world, the organisation is called Daesh, which has its own range of pejorative overtones.

          The name Daesh has gained currency despite, or perhaps as a direct consequence of, the irritation it causes the group, and it is now used widely across the world by politicans and in the Media.

          It is only the antipodian press that persist with calling it ISIS. I mean, even the BBC has now given up the ISIS and ISIL abbreviations, in favour of Daesh.

          20

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Well at least they are honest in hating every civilisation in which they live…oh hang on…..

      11

    • #

      Trump is OK. Just make sure you keep your mouth closed and your hand over your groin if he is near.

      00

  • #
    el gordo

    AEMO fudge electricity prices to fit the meme.

    http://www.warwickhughes.com/blog/?p=4740

    21

  • #
    pat

    hard to say this result necessarily reflects the post-naughty word “scandal”, but it will be interesting to see their next one:

    8 Oct: Youtube: Bill Still: SR 1246 – First Poll on Trump’s Naughty Word Scandal
    Well, the first polling results are in on the Donald Trump 11-year-old Naughty-Word-Scandal. According to this morning’s (LA Times) USC Daybreak Poll, the overall reaction is — a resounding yawn.
    Trump’s support did drop one tenth of a percentage point, from 46.2 to 46.1%, but Hillary Clinton dropped 4 times as much – .4% – down to 43%. So, Trump leads overall by 3.2%
    Bottom line, Trump actually gained an additional third of a percentage point on Clinton.
    Now, granted, the scandal broke in the early afternoon, but still bad news travels fast and overall, we suspect that this will be seen as yet another Clinton dirty trick in the end.
    Digging down into the data of the poll tends to confirm this. Trump still leads with every age group…
    You can’t argue with the numbers, and remember, this was the most accurate poll in the 2012 Presidential race…
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSUzOJA4Jk0

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    • #
      Bobl

      Yes, this dirty trick reminded me very much of the Abbott wall punch scandal, which resulted in him getting elected…. well alright, didn’t stop him getting elected even as he was being painted as a woman hater.

      This is straight from the regressives playbook, they have by all reports been planning tbis dump for 11 months, it’s designed to create a distraction at the debate.

      Not that anyone should defend what he said, but it’s just “talk among the boys” as much as Hillary has probably indulged in similar “girl talk” in the past. Childish banter, wrong, but there are far more important things to be worried about that what Trump said showing off in a bus full of blokes 11 years ago. If anyone changes their vote on that issue then they aren’t thinking about the big picture. IE putting the clinton foundation in charge of the USA.

      Does anyone in the USA get that the first bloke will be a convicted felon if Hillary wins? Hillary should be excluded if for no other reason than her husband is a major security risk convicted of perjury “I did not have sex with that woman” Bill, is in my opinion second only to private email server owner Hillary herself.

      Standard disclaimer to the spooks. I am an Australian national and have little interest in USA politics except that the outcome of the US election affects us. I want to know that we have a strong ally in the world, one who’s head of state cannot be bought, and who are not implicated in corruption. The clinton foundation run by Bill, Hillary and Chelsea has been the subject of complaints to the New Guinea police and possibly the AFP for the allegedly corrupt manner that Bill Clinton allegedly negotiated paid contracts on behalf of the Clinton Foundation when he was legally excluded from representing it due to his perjury conviction and the creation of a sham charitable organisation not in accordance with the law.

      I think it is probably bad for my country if a corrupt person has a position of influence in the government of our most important ally

      Mods, I have liberally sprinkled the word allegedly as appropriate, while the perjury and email server accusation are proven. I think it is clear that the police reports are at this point allegations and would like you to release this from moderation.

      50

  • #
    pat

    there’s been a bit of a meme on Freerepublic – best.election.ever, which i noted was updated yesterday by one jokester to most.entertaining.election.ever.
    in that spirit:

    8 Oct: Entertainment Week: Christopher Rosen: Arnold Schwarzenegger won’t vote Trump, implores other Republicans to do the same
    The new ‘Apprentice’ host backs away from his predecessor
    Schwarzenegger did not say which other candidate he would vote for on Nov. 8…
    See also
    Bruce Springsteen rails against Trump at the New Yorker Fest
    De Niro goes off on Trump: ‘I’d like to punch him in the face’
    Stephen Colbert slams Donald Trump over graphic comments about women
    http://www.ew.com/article/2016/10/08/arnold-schwarzenegger-donald-trump

    judging by the comments above & below, Arnold might live to regret getting involved in this manufactured madness:

    Twitter: Arnold Schwarzenegger – Full statement on Trump
    https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/status/784803865723965440?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

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    • #
      Olaf Koenders

      Arnie will, as always, do anything for fame. In his younger years he was always very self-driven but has since fallen into the rear-end crack of the Dummocrats. It’s a long way to fall.

      10

    • #
      Bobl

      Oh and Mr Universe Arnie has never said to someone that he could “Pull the chicks” ?

      20

      • #
        Bobl

        Sorry, Jo, I’m lowering the tone here a bit, but I can’t stand the sanctimonious hypocrisy. Just like I can’t stand the sanctimonious green hypocrisy endorsing Solar and Wind that don’t actually save any CO2 – all pain no benefit. I’ll be good from here on, I promise…

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  • #
    New Chum

    Has anyone come across this website which a scroll down the page reveals a timeline of climate change over many years?
    http://www.c3headlines.com/are-droughts-floods-more-frequent/

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    • #
      beowulf

      Great find. Impressive list.

      Interesting snippet from 1954:

      “Sunday Times (Perth, WA) Sunday 24 October 1954
      Gale Batters Adelaide
      A south-easterly gale, including gusts up to 69 mph, battered Adelaide last night and early this morning and roofs were torn off some homes and other buildings. Many fences, trees and hoardings were blown down.
      Extensive blackouts were caused in many suburbs by the blowing of tree branches against wires. Many telephone services were also dislocated.”

      Apparently SA had no windmills in 1954 to “stabilise” the grid, hence only localised blackouts.

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    • #
      Annie

      Thanks for that New Chum.

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  • #
    toorightmate

    Some may have noticed news reports that the SA power failure might cost $150 to 300 million.
    This is pure unadulterated BS.
    The true loss to SA businesses will be will in excess of 1 billion.
    Just do a few quick calculations on the daily losses from Olympic Dam and Prominent Hill alone.

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    • #
      Dennis

      Only one billion dollars?

      Petty cash for the socialists, well borrowed petty cash.

      20

      • #
        David Maddison

        Yes. They can just print more.

        10

      • #
        tom0mason

        Yes the lefty way is to find any uncontrolled items that were not previously given a monetary value, and appraise on very narrow terms to a preferred overpriced value. Then you can borrow against it.
        Simple eh?
        Like the UN concept of monetary value for everything, CO2 included. We as humans can not control the majority of atmospheric CO2 levels, and currently it is increasing, and CO2 price deflation. But pricing it does allow them to apportion tax to the air you breath!
        We might as well overprice desert sand to control how much of it there is.
        Madness, pure madness.

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    pat

    9 Oct: Andrew Bolt blog: The winds are worse. But Victoria won’t black, too
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/the-winds-are-worse-but-victoria-wont-black-too/news-story/b9aa2afdb6ddfcae4dcec18bafdda60a

    8 Oct: Adelaide Advertiser: Chris Kenny: Chris Kenny: Jay Weatherill is ignoring the practical for the delusional with South Australia’s energy crisis
    Weatherill’s renewable plan is therefore – on any rational basis – a Green-Left gesture that cannot help the planet.
    It is not a plan to save the planet, it is a plan to make people feel good by pretending they are saving the planet.
    While China, India and the United States burn coal and gas, we fiddle…READ ALL
    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opinion/chris-kenny-jay-weatherill-is-ignoring-the-practical-for-the-delusional-with-south-australias-energy-crisis/news-story/6e71fee23ded755c4e66dc4741f25827

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    • #
      joseph

      Reads like maybe he’s been reading this site . . . . .

      01

      • #
        joseph

        Chris Kenny

        00

        • #
          ROM

          If the various media opinion writers with even a touch of doubt about so many climate alarmist claims , a doubt that is showing up more and more in some MSM publications, want to try just a little to keep an eye on what are the current and running alternative views, otherwise labeled as the Skeptic’s views, on the climate and weather and anything associated with climate alarmism and green extremes [ What else is there in the Green world except extremism?. The Green's politics and policy is based exclusively on promoting an increasingly level of irrational extremism in everything they turn their attention to. ] there are very few full on Australian Skeptic sites with a high level of very well equipped and articulate and highly knowledgeable and often highly qualified in a complex technical terms, hands on professionals anywhere else on Australian Skeptical Climate sites.

          That along with a good number and a good spread of commenters and often some considerable discussion, some out of left field thinking and comments to give depth to a current climate / alarmism related subject is grist for the media mill for opinion writers.

          And that is the important difference here on jo’s site compared to a lot of other sites, the high level of technically qualified commenters [ it shows! ] who know their stuff that the opinion writers can turn to for further thoughts and to suddenly see that what they were going to write had some traps in it highlighted by a skeptic commenter here before the opinion writer had even started his Siri computer speak in writing the article.
          That or they send their minions to browse through to ascertain other lines of thinking on a climate and a technically climate related subject.
          They also have a research unit working for them in the way so many commenters here supply links to what for the most part are quite legitimate climate and science and international and even politically related articles elsewhere

          If you have any doubts about the high level of technical information and opinion based on competency in many subjects here amongst Jo’s denizens and many other irregular commenters take a look at the quality of the opposition in their intellectual and knowledge base and their very obvious incompetency when they appear as trolls here.

          The further advantage for outsiders, ie; opinion writers who have to generate pages of print almost daily is that there is NO other MSM or political or organisational outfits mixed up here with Jo’s blog.
          The politic leanings are quite clear here, brought about mainly by the ppolitics of the left becoming so out of this world and irrational about climate , enegy and economics today.
          But the politics are not the all pervading influence upon this blog thank goodness, a point no doubt appreciated by any opinion writers seeking alternative views outside of their own circles.

          Such a narrowness and shallowness of opinions and intellectual debate if you can find a viable alarmist intellect, I didn’t say “rational “. in any of the ABC’s forum discussions occurs with the ABC forums or SkS who have an overriding, very narrowly based, highly and specifically censorious outlook on any who dare to question the “consensus” as defined exactly by that same organisation.
          Which of course immediately delineates the type and amount and variation of the science that must be followed and therefore completely negates the very science they are supposedly promoting as it is no longer science as the organisation has selected what is to be strictly and solely believed .
          As there is no alternative in their case and therefore there is no science as “they” have decided what is and what is not acceptable in keeping everybody on the required straight and narrow consensual incestual climate alarmism science field.

          Catallaxy Files does something similar as Jo does but much more towards the political in politics.

          Horses for courses so as to speak as no one can cover more than a small range of what is being discussed today on the Net and in the media where opinion writing has unfortunately taken over mostly from the old and much more acceptable, straight out accurate and thoroughly checked reporting of the real news from around the world.

          After all that, I have noted a recent development where quite a number of phrases particularly in The OZ which is the only major news sheet I still get and can afford and like, that quite regularly nowadays a short phrase or something very similar verbiage wise to that I have seen a couple of days previously here on Jo’s blog, turns up in the opinion pages in the MSM.
          —————-
          But I also have a warning / suggestion to some of our commenters here; steer well clear of too much emphasis or too much commentary around all sorts of unproven conspiracy theories or information on a supposed conspiracy being hatched that somebody down the street got from the first cousin of his grand aunt’s second brother in the Noradjuha pub one night .
          Nothing will send people seeking genuine information off somewhere else faster than if we get a conspiracy complex going here about so many things that seem to be happening in this world today.

          I’ve been around in this world for 78 years now and I reckon I have been hearing conspiracy theories about somebody taking over civilisation beginning with the Pope in my youth to the communists, to Maurice Strong and he’s now good and dead and not missed either, to the UN today and everybody in between for the last 70 of those years.
          We are still here.
          We are still to be taken over by a conspiracy.
          And no doubt like all those past conspiracies, this next one is different so that is why it will succeed!
          BS!

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          • #
            joseph

            I had read Chris Kenny’s article in the Sunday paper and the content surprised me. I meant my comment as a compliment but it looks it’s been taken the wrong way.

            00

  • #
    pat

    9 Oct: Philippine Star: Rody cool to climate agreement
    By Christina Mendez and Paolo Romero
    The Philippines need not follow the rules of “imperialists” by abiding with the Paris Agreement on climate change, President Duterte said.
    Speaking before businessmen in Davao City last Friday – his 100th day in office – Duterte stressed it is unfair for the country to be subjected to limitations on carbon emissions when it has not yet maximized its industrial potentials.
    He said he would further open the country to mining and the manufacturing sectors to boost the economy.
    “They cannot go higher than what we have now. And yet we Third World countries are trying to catch up and we are stymied not only by the cartels but also by the refusal of these industrial countries to understand,” the President said.
    He said developed countries are curtailing the Philippines’ industrialization bid through restrictions on carbon emissions…READ ON
    http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/10/09/1631803/rody-cool-climate-agreement

    9 Oct: Indian Express: PTI: Can switch to cleaner energy sources if world helps: PM
    Days after India ratifying the Paris Climate Agreement, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has said the country can switch over to cleaner energy sources from coal if the world provides the technology and resources. However, he said until the country got the required resources and technology, he would think of an “alternative” to meet its rising energy demand…
    “If the world helps me technologically, provides us with the resources, I would be the first person to emphasise on switching from coal to cleaner sources of energy. Until I am able to do that, I will think of something else,” Modi said in response to a question asked by American TV show host David Letterman in a documentary series, ‘Years of Living Dangerously’, aired today…
    http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/narendra-modi-paris-agreement-switch-to-cleaner-energy-resources-2030-3072810/

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  • #
    pat

    plebs not needed:

    8 Oct: Reuters: German push to ban combustion-engine cars by 2030 wins support
    A proposal to stop sales of new combustion-engine cars by 2030 has gained cross-party support in Germany’s Bundesrat, the country’s upper house of parliament, Der Spiegel reported.
    German lawmakers should urge their counterparts in Brussels to push incentives for only zero-emission vehicles to be registered by 2030, the weekly news magazine said, citing a decision taken in a Bundesrat meeting.
    “If the Paris agreement to curb climate-warming emissions is to be taken seriously, no new combustion engine cars should be allowed on roads after 2030,” it quoted Greens party lawmaker Oliver Krischer as saying.
    A switch to sales of only zero-emission cars puts thousands of German auto industry jobs at risk since the powertrain of an electric car requires only a tenth of the staff to be assembled when compared with a combustion-engined equivalent, which needs more workers to assemble cylinders, spark plugs, and gearboxes.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-emissions-germany-idUSKCN1280G7

    8 Oct: UK Telegraph: Jillian Ambrose: Is it all over for the age of cheap air travel?
    The aviation industry has crossed a threshold. After almost two decades of talks, 191 countries gathered in Montreal last week to adopt a global market-based system to tackle the rise of carbon emissions from international air travel.
    The deal has been welcomed by governments as an unprecedented diplomatic success, and by green groups as a hopeful starting point for further environmental progress. But for some embattled airlines, it could deliver a fatal blow to the gilded decades of low-cost flights…
    Under the new deal, airlines will be expected to offset their emissions growth after 2020 by buying “offset credits” in line with their carbon footprint.
    The carbon costs are expected to incentivise the industry to develop lower-carbon fuels and technologies, while the money raised by the credits will fund environmental initiatives to help to tackle climate change.
    This cost is forecast to grow to as high as $23.9bn by 2035, or 1.8pc of the airlines’ revenue. At the same time airlines will need to spend more on developing lower emissions aircraft, technologies and fuel.
    Still, there are many who believe that the cost is too low…
    HSBC analyst Andrew Lobbenberg says the new carbon plan matters less than what may follow now that the floodgates of environmental regulation have opened…
    Accendo Markets’ equity analyst, Mike van Dulken, agrees that the days of cheap and cheerful European air travel could be numbered. Holidaymakers may face a more “budget” experience for higher prices, as airlines are forced to invest in new aircraft to escape escalating carbon costs. Already British Airways has announced plans to scrap free food and drink on its short-haul flights in favour of selling snacks and sandwiches from Marks & Spencer…
    “Should the oil price rise again due to undersupply in the next five years, this would add an additional unwelcome headwind for airlines already struggling badly.”
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/08/is-it-all-over-for-the-age-of-cheap-air-travel/

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      “German lawmakers should urge their counterparts in Brussels to push incentives for only zero-emission vehicles to be registered by 2030″
      Lots of Noddy cars with hordes of bean eating Greens peddling like mad…hang on, what was that about no emissions?

      51

  • #
    pat

    if you can bear it, read it all:

    8 Oct: IMF: Communique of the Thirty-Fourth Meeting of the International Monetary and Financial Committee (IMFC)
    Global economy
    The global economic recovery continues slowly and unevenly, and growth is expected to pick up only slightly next year, mostly on account of emerging market economies…
    Still, the outlook remains subdued against the backdrop of modest global demand growth and remaining output gaps; a slowdown in global trade, investment, and productivity; and rising geopolitical uncertainty and medium-term financial risks…
    Overall, uncertainty and downside risks are elevated, while longstanding headwinds persist.
    The global economy has benefited tremendously from globalization and technological change. However, the outlook is increasingly threatened by inward-looking policies, including protectionism, and stalled reforms. We commit to design and implement policies to address the concerns of those who have been left behind and to ensure that everyone has the opportunity to benefit from globalization and technological change.
    We reinforce our commitment to strong, sustainable, inclusive, job-rich, and more balanced growth…
    We call on the IMF to continue efforts, in cooperation with other relevant international organizations, to help countries meet the 2030 Sustainable Development Goals and to integrate deliverables under the post-2015 development agenda into the IMF’s work…
    We welcome the entry ***into force*** of the Paris Agreement on climate change…
    http://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2016/10/08/AM16-cm100816-Communique-of-the-Thirty-Fourth-Meeting-of-the-IMFC

    10

  • #
    David Maddison

    Honey bee populations are healthy and not about to collapse despite Greentard claims. Colony collapse has been determined to be a natural phenomenon going back centuries.

    https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2016/07/28/beepocalypse-myth-handbook-dissecting-claims-of-pollinator-collapse/

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    • #
      Mari C

      I’d love to agree that bee populations, at least in my area, are fine. But I spent a summer seeing hardly any honey bees and very few bumbles. My yard is usually -thronged- with various bumblebees and my honeysuckle and American flag vines are generally covered in all sorts of bees, and yet, this summer the yard and vines were quite uncovered.

      Honeybees, here, are interlopers, European immigrants and escapees from the hives of beekeepers, not native wild bees at all. Some farmers may miss them, but I miss the native bees more as they pollinate the native fruits, vegetables, flowers and are acclimated to our various continental climates. Hauling crates of bees around to pollinate giant business farms keeps food on the shelves, I know this, but it also spreads the diseases bees are prone to quite handily, and the mono-crop acres kill off those bees that are more suited to the terrain, weather patterns, climate and flora of each US region.

      So the enslaved (I -knew- I could work that in!) honey-bees are recovering, maybe never were in danger. But they didn’t make it to my yard this year. The busy little fuzzy bodies that used to cover the carefully tended weedy lawn (clover and dandelion, little flowery creepers and assorted tiny daisy-like and bell-flowered lovelies) weren’t there.

      I almost miss getting stung on the bottom of my foot.

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  • #
    TdeF

    With the current very high winds in Victoria, 107km/hr being recorded at the airport, Hazelwood power station has closed. The French owners said this was because CO2 was being blown over populated areas.

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    • #
      TdeF

      They want compensation for losses from the Australian government for the climate change and for the fact that the noxious nature of CO2 was not in the original description of Hazelwood. It was not described in the brochure as the most polluting power station in the country, given that brown coal produces 6% more CO2 per kw than black coal. Compensation to stay closed is estimated at a mere $250million per year. This means South Australia will not be able to send their CO2 to Victoria and will have to buy their CO2 from NSW.

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      • #
        TdeF

        Scientists at environment Victoria say that brown coal CO2 is much more polluting than black coal CO2. The recommendation from The Conversation and Environment Victoria is that “The idle black coal capacity in NSW alone could more that replace the energy output of Hazelwood.” So Victoria should stop using its plentiful brown coal and buy power from NSW. Then SA could buy power from Victoria who would buy it from NSW and the CO2 would move even further from South Australia. Then if the windmills stop, three states could shut down.

        Your taxes at work.

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        • #
          ROM

          Obviously a slow day in the TdeF household today;

          What with Ruairi and his pointed and short , sharp and direct Free Verse poetry

          Rereke and his pithy and pertinent comments.

          Now TdeF and his pertinent, ironic and sardonic sarcasm.

          This blog could be in line for literature award!

          Yeh Right!

          Sorry “Right” is facing the wrong way for Literature “awards”.
          A fast “Left” turn required here folks.

          Coming up! some rare green thumbs from myself, 3 of, Tdef.

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          • #
            TdeF

            More parody than sarcasm, but this is because

            after the ‘once in 5 years storm’ according to the BOM,

            No staunchions blown over
            Most damage from blown over gum trees, roots weakened by incessant rains
            Airport functioning although one runway closed after a possible tail strike by a 777
            No interruption to power in the city
            Freezers working fine
            No hospitals closed down
            128,000 homes without power without explanation but usually the above falling trees which are not as much a problem in the SA deserts and with a much higher population

            and Hazelwood was likely still selling a lot of power to both SA and NSW, where up to 50% of the black coal power is turned off because brown coal is so much cheaper. Up to 75% of Hazelwood output goes to NSW and more to SA, so a great money spinner for Victoria. Of course the Greens desperately want to turn it off and have Victoria buy power from NSW. This is the policy of Environment Victoria.

            50

          • #
            TdeF

            Also I was wrong. I thought environment victoria was a government body. It isn’t. Like the private Climate Council, which tries to look like the government Climate Commission.

            Environment Victoria, formerly the Conservation Council of Victoria, is an Australian not-for-profit, charitable group and Victoria’s peak non-government environment organisation. It works in collaboration with over 150 groups Australia-wide to protect Victoria’s environment and relies on financial support from donors, members, grants and sponsorships”

            30

  • #
    liberator

    A couple of quotes I read elsewhere:

    I often say that there are two kinds of people in the world. Those who allow their beliefs to be shaped by facts and those who allow their beliefs to dictate what they’ll accept as facts.

    The sad fact is, people of all beliefs tend to let their beliefs lead them to evidence instead of evidence leading them to their beliefs.

    All very true, if it doesn’t fit your belief then it cant be right *(despite all the evidence to the quandary) if it does support their belief then of course its right. It’s a shame it seems to be all about beliefs and not facts – accept the facts do or don’t fit and move on with it…

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      There is obviously a third group, those who change the facts to match their beliefs, and expect us to then believe them.

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  • #
    ianl8888

    Over a week now since SA went black. Lots of arm waving, buck passing and obfuscation is apparent in the MSM. The AEMO Interim Report was somewhat helpful but is still inadequate.

    Nowhere in the MSM has there been a serious attempt to interview an experienced electrical grid engineer. This has been true for over 20 years now (I’m excluding academic inputs unless they have hard, practical, significant experience in design and management of serious grids).

    I’m told by people whose MSM experience I respect that this is because: 1) the meeja don’t understand the information anyway; and 2) it is judged by the denizens of the meeja that the general populace also finds the information incomprehensible and the engineers boring.

    If I accept this as accurate, Cassandra suggests that deliberate destruction of the existing, reliable grid by stages is only delayed a little.

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    • #
      David Maddison

      The deliberate destruction of a reliable grid with cheap power is just part of the overall deliberate destruction of Western Civilisation as a whole.

      The driving force is Cultural Marxism.

      Here is a video on the subject. https://youtu.be/G8pPbrbJJQs

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      • #
        el gordo

        ‘Cultural Marxism is a branch of western Marxism, different from the Marxism-Leninism of the old Soviet Union. It is commonly known as “multiculturalism” or, less formally, Political Correctness.’

        wiki

        30

        • #
          Annie

          It’s what is used to control people.

          30

          • #
            el gordo

            Indeed, we have a taste of it here with Section 18c hanging over our heads. In the fullness of time we’ll all be political correct, except for the harmless odd eccentric.

            Donald is in trouble for being natural, a banter room discussion over a decade ago is now used as ammunition in an advanced PC western world. Democracy is on the ropes and the Marxist rabble are cheering for a quick demise.

            Marxism with Chinese characteristics (new world order) is warming to the philosophy of Cultural Marxism, with its inherent ability to repress dissent at a formative level.

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      • #
        Rod Stuart

        Thanks very much for that link, Dave, and the associated full length documentary.
        It isn’t anything new to folks who have read Ayn Rand, or followed the work of Milton Freidman, Von Mises, Stiglitz, or the Austrian School in general, but it puts that whole logical series of ideas in one place.

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  • #
    pat

    6 Oct: BBC: Kamal Ahmed: World Bank admits some have lost out from free trade
    The World Bank has admitted the growth of global free trade has not been a success for all.
    An internal briefing document seen by the BBC says the effects of globalisation on advanced economies is “often uneven” and “may have led to rising wage inequality”…
    Dr Jim Kim, the head of the World Bank, told the BBC that he understood why people were angry in advanced economies despite the fact that free trade was one of the “most powerful” drivers of growth and prosperity.
    “I hear them and they are saying that my life is not better than my parents and my children’s life does not look like it’s going to be better than mine,” he told me…
    “Recent evidence for the US suggests that adjustment costs for those employed in sectors exposed to import competition from China are much higher than previously thought,” the document says.
    “While trade may have contributed to rising inequality in high income economies, so has technological change and the weakening of institutions that used to represent the interests of labour.
    “Given overall efficiency gains, the dislocation effects of trade in advanced economies must be addressed through stronger safety nets and enhanced skills and flexible labour markets.”…
    He said that international organisations had to do more to explain the advantages of global trade for advanced as well as emerging economies.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37580844

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      Peter C

      He said that international organisations had to do more to explain the advantages of global trade for advanced as well as emerging economies.

      Well I am waiting for the explanation!

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        Graeme No.3

        Peter C:

        I think it goes like this. We encouraged/forced companies to move/buy from cheaper countries so western consumers would get cheaper goods so they would have more money left that we the government/public service could take in taxes etc. Higher taxes mean that we can spend more such as on unemployment which for some reason has gone up so much recently, but we’ve disguised it by employing more public servants which means we need higher taxes.

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    pat

    7 Oct: Sputnik News: Half of US Jobs at Risk Due to Automation – WTO Director-General
    Automation and other technological advancements far surpass international trade as the leading cause of job losses in the United States and abroad, World Trade Organization (WTO) Director-General Roberto Azevedo said on Friday.
    “Studies suggest that almost 50 percent of existing jobs in the US are at high risk of automation,” Azevedo said in a speech at the National Press Club in Washington, DC.
    Warning against the rise of anti-trade sentiment in the developed world, Azevedo said, “Over 80 percent of job losses in advanced economies are not due to trade, but to increased productivity through technology and innovation.”…READ ON
    https://sputniknews.com/business/20161007/1046121826/usa-jobs-lost-automation-wto.html

    8 Oct: Phys.org: Germany conducting inquiry into Tesla autopilot system
    Germany said Saturday it was still investigating the operation of the autopilot system on cars made by electric automaker Tesla, as German media reported an internal ministerial report called it “dangerous”
    According to the weekly news magazine Der Spiegel, an internal ministry report had concluded that the autopilot function represents “a considerable danger for traffic”, especially because the driver is not warned when the autopilot system is not able to handle a situation.
    “The final evaluation of the transport ministry concerning the autopilot functioning of Tesla Model S cars is not yet ready,” the ministry told AFP, denying the reports that it had already concluded the probe…
    Consumer activists have called on the company, founded by PayPal billionaire Elon Musk, to disable the autopilot feature until it is updated to detect whether the driver’s hands are on the steering wheel during operation—as the company says should be the case.
    http://phys.org/news/2016-10-germany-inquiry-tesla-autopilot.html

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      Mari C

      Every so often automation comes up as a big bad boogey-man. By all accounts, robots should be everywhere, repairing cars, making clothing, working farms, doing all the repetitious and low-paid jobs (burger flipping, even) and yet, no robots. And so much is automated that we don’t even see the automation any more. When was the last time you saw a track-signaler and his lights?

      Those industries which have automated lines still employee humans on those lines to ensure the lines move smoothly, the automata are in good working order, etc. Very few plants have an absence of humans at least walking the line and ensuring all is operating smoothly. And who, really, wants to spend 8 hours each day screwing the same small part onto another small part for the rest of their life?

      Automation sounds inhuman and evil-sci-fi. And it’s used to scare the union members, the young, the poor. Yet it is the one thing that has made life easier and brought the cost of so much down to a level where almost anyone can fill their house with crap.

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    AndyG55

    This is a treasure. :-)

    http://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/article208357729/Zu-lange-an-der-E-Zapfsaeule-Wagen-wurde-abgeschleppt.html?google_editors_picks=true

    Use google translate..

    As far as I can gather, the guy was waiting (several hours) in a queue to charge his electric car. Left his car.. and got a $150 fine for illegal parking ! :-)

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    Oliver K. Manuel

    The UN is too late!

    The real universe is being exposed after eighty years (1936-2016) of misinformation about nuclear energy and the effects of neutron-repulsion are reported to the public.

    HIGH-SPEED BULLET EJECTIONS DURING THE AGB-TO-PLANETARY NEBULA TRANSITION: HST OBSERVATIONS OF THE CARBON STAR, V HYDRAE
    R. Sahai1, S. Scibelli1,2, and M. R. Morris3
    Published 2016 August 11 • © 2016. The American Astronomical Society. All rights reserved.
    The Astrophysical Journal, Volume 827, Number 2

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    Gordon

    Don’t remember if this has ever been posted here before but…… well… read it.

    http://calgaryherald.com/business/energy/oldest-commercial-wind-farm-in-canada-headed-for-scrapyard-after-23-years

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      David Maddison

      Great news!

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      How cool is this?

      This wonderful wind plant has been supplying the grid in Alberta with clean green wind power for 23 years.

      23 whole, wonderful years.

      Twenty Three Years.

      It has supplied an absolutely humungous amount of power across those operational years.

      You know, the same amount of power delivered by Bayswater in, umm, dare I even say it ….. 15 DAYS.

      23 years! 15 Days!

      You be the judge.

      Tony.

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        Please note here that I’m not comparing this 23 year old, broken down, and now decommissioned wind plant with a modern HELE USC power station. I’m comparing this old wind plant, with, using the same age context, an ancient coal fired power station.

        Bayswater was operational nine years prior to the construction of this wind plant, and Bayswater, in all probability still has at least another 20 years of operation left in it.

        And still there is no comparison.

        Tony.

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          David Maddison

          WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?

          Why don’t professional engineers express outrage at the destruction of our electrical grid and power production methods?

          They’re either part of the solution or part of the problem.

          Silence is consent!

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            David, it is not as simple as that. As I commented elsewhere there are many different types of engineers. The largest area of engineering is Civil and over 95% of these would have little knowledge about electrical grids and power production. You need professional electrical engineers (not electricians) who have experience with the grid and power production. Further, you need experienced electrical engineers who are not compromised in the jobs with governments (most grid are controlled by government organisations) or with supplier & distributor companies (eg Alinta, AGL, Ergon etc). Even electrical engineering consultants could see their livelyhood disappearing if they spoke out. Politicians and unions can be powerful enemies. Labor is of course under the thumb of the unions. What is needed is a strong sensible government that will prosecute union leaders. I do not know the answer but it seems Switzerland is progressing while giving voters a say via Citizen initiated referenda.

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              Bobl

              Some of us do speak out but, what gets bought is more to do with what is proposed. If a coal plant is off the table,it doesn’t get built. Money gets put on the table for renewables so the utilities build them. The engineers job is just to do that, generally the engineers don’t get to choose what gets built. That’s decided by the strings attached to the money.

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        Gordon

        UNBELIEVABLE!!!
        Do you laugh, cry, shake your head?

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    pat

    links to agenda, speakers, etc. ***love how “open” debate requires Chatham House rule!

    10 Oct: Chatham House: Climate Change 2016 Conference
    Has the game changed?
    10 Oct 2016 – 11 Oct 2016
    This conference will explore issues including:
    ◾The implications of the Paris outcome for capital investment, innovation and planning in the public and private sectors;
    ◾Dynamics within and between the major emitters and the prospects for greater near-term ambition, including potential outcomes of the 2016 US presidential election;
    ◾The outlook for hydrocarbon prices and the implications for low-carbon policies in developed and developing countries;
    ◾How $1 trillion of investment in clean energy can be mobilized…
    The Chatham House Rule
    ***To enable as ***open a debate as possible, this conference will be held under the Chatham House Rule.
    https://www.chathamhouse.org/conferences/climate-change-2016

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    pat

    best CAGW reporter in the world. Nitin genuinely believes in CAGW, but at least he reports on what the MSM CAGW propagandists undoubtedly know but keep to their elitist selves. have not found a word about this anywhere else:

    9 Oct: Business Standard: Nitin Sethi: Climate talks: It’s getting hotter
    The tug of wills on a fine print to enforce the Paris pact has begun. Initial portents show India, for one, has much to work on
    While public attention was focused on whether the Paris agreement would come into force this year or not, top climate negotiators from some key nations around the world gathered for a closed-door meeting at Marrakesh in late September. Morocco and France had called an informal gathering, ahead of the climate negotiations to begin on November 7.
    One would expect bonhomie among negotiators who only 11 months earlier had collectively agreed to a global climate agreement that every world leader seems to want to keep celebrating and taking some credit for. There was none of that. It was an exchange of pure hostility across the great divide that remains the only consistent feature of these talks since 2007 — the divide between developed countries and emerging economies…
    “They were back to shifting the goal post again,” said a developing country negotiator present at the meet, his view on the rich nations’ agenda at the meeting…
    If any negotiator had doubts, the Marrakesh l meeting made it clear that these rules and regulations would be the proverbial small print, with the power to alter the nature of the Paris agreement substantially to a country’s detriment…

    Domestic agenda (India)
    Some climate action plans have been floundering. The Green India mission, meant to enhance and enrich the country’s forest and tree cover to sequester carbon emissions, has been the slowest to take off. It is plagued by a history over decades of fake afforestation plans and ineffective forest bureaucracy…

    Prime Minister Narendra Modi has set one of the most ambitious solar energy targets any country has ever taken on. This has helped pushed down costs of solar and rapidly create capacity. Yet, the domestic solar industry remains relatively stagnant and the grid and balancing power infrastructure needed for the intermittent energy source needs much greater attention. Internally, the government has assessed that the lack of this infrastructure could mean forcefully reducing the efficiency of solar power plants over time. The delicate balance between the intermittent renewable energy and base load power needs careful policy planning. Reforms initiated under the UDAY scheme for power distributors would need to take root for the relatively still expensive renewable sector to build up…
    http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/climate-talks-it-s-getting-hotter-116101000002_1.html

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    Greg Cavanagh

    Just for interest’s sake. Since the Green idealists would like to depopulate the world, I present to you an image of what this could look like. Following is an extract from a book called “Dante and his Italy. Page 41: PS: the quotes are from Salimbene.

    “For many years”, he says, writing of the year 1247, “men could not plough nor sow nor reap nor till the vines nor gather the vintage nor dwell on the farmseads… Hard by the cities, indeed, men might be seen at work under a guard of soldiers, divided into quartrios, according to the gates of the city. Armed men kept watch over the labourers all the day long while the countrymen tilled the fields. This they needs must do by reason of the ‘beruarios’ and ‘latrones’ and ‘praedones,’ who were muliplied exceedingly, and used to seize men and hale them off to prison that they might ransom themselves for money. They carried off also their oxen, and either ate them themselves or sold them. And if their captives refused to give ransom they would hang them up by feet and hands, and draw their teeth, and put toads in their mouths, that they might ransom themselves the more speedily; which things was to the prisoners more bitter and abominable than any death. More cruel were these men than demons: and in those days a traveller was just as glad to see a man comming along the road as he would have been to see the devil. For one always suspected another that he would seize him and hale him to prison, in order that, as saith the Scipture, “a man’s riches” should be “the ransom of his life” (Prov. xiii). And the land was reduced to solitude, so that there was none to till it nore to pass through it. For in the days of Frederic, and more especially after that he was deposed from the empire and Parma rebelled and lifted up her heel against him, “the highways were unoccupied and the travellers walked through byways” (judges v). “And evils were multiplied in the land, and birds and wild beasts were very exceedingly multiplied, as phaesants and partridges and quails, hares and wild goats, deer, buffaloes, and wild boars and ravenous wolves. For since they found not, after ancient custom, beasts to eat in the farmsteads, little lambs or sheep – for the reason that the farmsteads were utterly destroyed by fire – therefor the wolves assembled in vast numbers around the fosee of each city and uttered great howls for exess of hunger. Nay, they would enter the cities by night and devour men that slept beneath the porticoes or in carts, and women and little children also. Morevoer sometimes they forced their way through the walls of the houses, and choked to death babes as they lay in their cots.

    “None could believe, unless he had seen,” concludes the Frate, “as I have seen, the horrible things that were done at that time alike by men and by divers kinds of beasts.”

    So the vast tract between the Apenines and the Alps which throughout history has been a proverb of alluring fertility to successive hords of invaders, and to-day is a smiling garden of prosperous viticulture, became in the first half of the thirteenth century a savage wilderness. This was indeed the outcome in a sence of Frederic’s struggle with the Papacy.

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    Oh dear! How inconvenient.

    Remember that blackout in South Australia, and how the collapsed transmission towers caused it.

    Evidently, of the 22 towers which failed, 15 of them failed ….. AFTER the blackout had already started.

    Tony.

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      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Thanks Tony,
      That’s great news. Do you have a reference for it, I hope, as I’d like to use it, please?
      Cheers,
      Dave B

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    Some of you may wonder about how things work inside one of those nacelles on top of the poles with the blades out the front.

    I have a very (very) basic schematic of one. (shown in the image at this link)

    While this is extremely simplified, it does show the main parts.

    Note at the back (far right in this image) of the nacelle, there are two things there, the wind vane and the anemometer both connected to the controller.

    The wind vane gives the wind direction so the whole nacelle is (via the yaw motor) is aligned so that the wind is blowing directly onto the blades.

    The anemometer gives the wind speed, so that when it reaches a certain speed, the blades are feathered (via the blade pitch control motor) and turned off, and also turned on if they are stopped during low wind conditions, turned on when the wind rises to the correct wind speed.

    Tony.

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      Okay then, see that anemometer there, so now, bear with me for a minute, and let’s pretend we have some wind plants, oh let’s say Clements Gap, and the three Snowtown plants, with a total Nameplate of 426MW. All of them are in a line approximately North South, and they are East of the remaining wind plants all of them also roughly oriented along that same North South axis. (see the map at this link and scroll in a little on that South Australian area, and you’ll see exactly what I mean here)

      All of them are chugging away nicely in the wind currently blowing very nicely thank you very much, doing just fine, blades spinning and a lone wind power supporter at the base of one of them, saying where’s the media with their cameras when all these blades are spinning.

      The big wind front is approaching from the West, with projected wind speeds well above the shut down speed for an average nacelle.

      These four plants are the first ones hit by that high wind, and they, umm, ….. immediately shut down.

      So now we have a grid going in search of 400 plus Megawatts, umm, nowhere to be found. It tries to find it via the Heywood Interconnector, but that’s too much for it, so it trips off, so now, instead of needing to find 400 plus, it has to find 750 Plus, all of it from one gas fired unit in operation, now also tripped off line as well to protect it.

      All those remaining wind plants cannot supply it, so to protect their infrastructure, they too drop off line, but hey, with that wind front still rolling eastwards, they too would have dropped off line as well.

      State goes black.

      Nothing to do with a couple of towers coming down.

      Now, I defy anyone anywhere to find me a wind speed anemometer on a coal fired unit. They would have just kept on chugging along, like they always do.

      We have an Inquiry under way in South Australia.

      Will they find what I just said here?

      Waiting ….. waiting ….. waiting …..

      Tony.

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    ROM

    Alternatively ; Google; Wind turbine Nacelle design; images, lots and lots of including an image and site from a well known , Tony from Oz

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    David Maddison

    WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?

    Why don’t professional engineers express outrage at the destruction of our electrical grid and power production methods?

    They’re either part of the solution or part of the problem.

    Silence is consent!

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      Bobl

      As I said before, if the government confines the funding to renewables then that’s what gets built, Engineers have to eat, they are not going to say to their employers I refuse to do my job. They make the point that this is wasteful, get overruled and that’s that. Personally though I have this time written to my member and various candidates over the years, as I have many times before offering them a presentation at my own cost on why climate change action is unwise and renewables don’t work. No politician has ever taken up my offer of a free presentation on engineering reality. Never.

      This is why Engineering seems to be quiet on the topic. Noone wants to know, better to keep the head in the sand. If they refuse to take professional advice then they can vote for renewable nonsense without the possibility of a charge that they ignored professional advice.

      That’s how politics works, Plausible deniability.

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    Peter C

    I have just watched the second presidential debate. Energy Policy and Climate Change got a mention at the very end.

    Hillary still wants to close all the coal mines in America to save the Climate.

    Trump seemed to endorse some renewable energy but said he wants to revise the EPA and get energy companies going again to pay off the national debt.
    He did not specifically mention Climate Change unfortunately.

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    OriginalSteve

    End to cheap air travel – the carbon made me do it , Mum….

    http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/is-this-the-end-of-the-age-of-cheap-air-travel-20161010-gryne5.html

    Wow…first banks, now airlines….there is even more “gold” in The Big Lie….

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      David Maddison

      But how are they going to reconstitute the population of the Western countries if they can’t fly masses of “refugees” around the world at low cost?

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    pat

    Murdoch media pick up ridiculous Guardian story – giving it an alarmist headline.

    Mountains ‘to be wiped from map’
    Courier Mail-12 hours ago
    SEVERAL mountains in the UK could literally disappear from the map because of climate change…

    Mountains ‘to be wiped from map’
    dailytelegraph.com.au-12 hours ago

    (btw Guardian original is headlined “Rising sea levels could reduce several UK mountains to hills”)

    someone sensible has now changed the headline at the News Corp links to:

    “Climate change threatens status of several British mountains”

    and this is the meat of this non-story:

    Mean sea level is calculated as the middle point between high and low tide. According to The Guardian the OS has used the same mean sea level for nearly 100 years but sea level rises due to climate change could them to reassess that marker.
    “We have to measure from a fixed point, and there are no immediate proposals for a change, but rising sea levels could obviously be a factor if there is a change in the future,” an OS spokesman told the paper. “Clearly if the fixed point was taken from a higher level, the heights measured would drop by the same amount, and that certainly could affect many hills and mountains.”
    http://www.couriermail.com.au/technology/climate-change-threatens-status-of-several-british-mountains/news-story/4cc4ea01ab4f9246537c49b5a57157d1

    “staff writers” is the only attribution for the News Corp article.

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    Matt

    Hi all,

    I’ve just read the latest SEPP update on the WUWT website and can’t help but ask the following question that I hope someone like David with a solid understanding of the physics and mathematics used in the GCM’s can answer:
    If the GCM from Russian Institute of Numerical Mathematics appears to forecast/predict/(whatever they want to get away with calling it this week) temperature well, has it been pulled apart and examined with a view to contrasting it against the other models and why it appears to perform better?

    The logical next step would be to promote those differences to scientific bodies to try and enlist their support in a decent review of the models themselves.
    Or has it all been done before with nothing to show for it except a sore forehead…?

    Regards,
    Matt

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    pat

    9 Oct: UK Telegraph: Nigel Farage: The little people have had enough – not just here, but in America too
    Not only did JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs help to fund the Remain campaign but they increasingly give the appearance of owning a whole section of our political class. When Berlusconi was forced to resign as the Italian prime minister, he was replaced by the unelected Mario Monti, a Goldman Sachs man.
    The recently retired EU Commission president, Jose Manuel Barroso, now has a job with Goldman Sachs, despite being a former Maoist. This week’s Wikileaks exposé shows that Hillary Clinton has been paid good money doing speeches for Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs and the Wall Street giants. They really must like her as she told them that she wants a hemispheric common market…
    There was one key dynamic that allowed the Brexit campaign to win. Nearly two and a half million people who had not voted in the last general election – or had never voted in their lives – turned out on June 23. A clear majority of these voted to leave the EU and tipped the balance.
    They felt that, for once, it was worth the bother of going out to vote, and they were right…
    I met many people at the (Trump) rally in Jackson, Mississippi, who had never voted in their lives. They may produce an upset similar to Brexit. It does not matter what the opinion polls, bookmakers or markets say, because these new voters are hard to measure…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/10/09/the-little-people-have-had-enough—not-just-here-but-in-america/

    national polls are pretty meaningless, cos it’s the swing states that will matter, but this one is always worth noting:

    9 Oct: The USC Dornsife / LA Times Presidential Election “Daybreak” Poll
    Trump 45.8% (+0.3 from yesterday)
    Clinton 42.7% (-0.6)
    http://cesrusc.org/election/

    more to come.

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    pat

    at the very top of my Google News page now is:

    High school debate champs critique the second presidential debate
    CNN – ‎1 hour ago‎

    note all details and the result:

    CNN invited members of the Henry W. Grady High School speech and debate team in Atlanta — seven time state champs — to watch the debate at CNN’s Headquarters and give us their impressions on how the candidates performed
    During the 90-minute exchange between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, the 26 high school students took copious notes and occasionally tapped their desks when they agreed with a point being made at the debate, just like lawmakers do in the British Parliament
    When it was over, the majority of students (17) said Hillary Clinton was the clear winner, based on debate technique and strategy, four thought Trump scored better and about five called it a draw.”
    (article was Updated 1057 GMT (1857 HKT) October 10, 2016 – By Kelly Wallace and Sandee LaMotte)
    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/10/health/presidential-debate-high-school-debate-team-reaction/

    uhoh…Atlanta Journal-Constitution had the very same debating team for the first debate just 12 days previously!

    26 Sept: AJC blog: Aaron Gould Sheinin: Grady High students ‘tap’ for Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump
    The AJC’s Eric Strigus is hanging out tonight with the Grady High School debate team and sends this dispatch…
    Speech and debate coach Mario Herrera asked the students to tap their desk if one of the candidates made a good point.
    Tap, tap, tap the room went, along with some laughter, in response to several Trump one-liners. Clinton got some taps and laughs when she said “Donald, I know you live in your own reality.”…
    Herrera told the students they would be asked to explain which candidate won and why afterward.
    http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2016/09/26/grady-high-students-tap-for-hillary-clinton-donald-trump/

    the result?

    27 Sept: AJC: Eric Strigus: Atlanta high school students say Clinton won debate
    About 30 Grady High School students who are involved in the school’s championship speech and debate team watched closely and took notes Monday night as Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump dueled over who is best fit to be the next president of the United States.
    So who did the students think did the better job?
    ***Three students raised their hands for Trump. One was undecided. The rest chose Clinton.
    http://www.ajc.com/news/local-education/atlanta-high-school-students-say-clinton-won-debate/mfKy6g48YrcuRSmK1mqwRL/

    CNN’s HQ is in Atlanta, and AJC “is the only major daily newspaper in the metropolitan area of Atlanta, Georgia” (Wikiipedia), so don’t tell me they weren’t aware of the bias of the debating team.

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    pat

    i closely followed reactions to the 2nd debate from various angles politically-speaking, & there is no doubt Trump won this debate.
    for the following to be on MSNBC – second only to CNN (CLINTON NEWS NETWORK) for anti-Trump 24/7 propaganda, tells the tale:

    10 Oct: GatewayPundit: Jim Hoft: WOW! Even Morning Joe Says TRUMP Performance Was “Epic” and “Rocked Political World” (VIDEO)
    WOW!
    Even the Morning Joe hosts, who openly hate Donald Trump, said his performance last night was “epic” and “rocked the political world.”…

    Joe Scarborough: I think there were a couple of things people in the press did not want to admit but it was plainly evident watching it on TV last night. Number one, it was Donald Trump’s most effective debate performance to date. There’s not a close second. There’s not a close second. Secondly, despite the fact she had an unprecedented cheering section in the media, the fact is for somebody who was watching, and people will see this as they go back and watch today, or of they see parts in a week from now or a month from now, Hillary Clinton was on defense most of the night…
    This is the political reality, that for the Republican base, Donald Trump delivered the political attack against the Clinton machine that the Republican base and middle America have been waiting for for years now…
    Mika Brzezinsk: And no Republican could have done what he did last night. It was epic. It was vintage Trump. He produced a daylong show that rocked the political world.
    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/10/wow-even-morning-joe-says-trump-performance-epic-rocked-political-world-video/

    however, as with the first debate, virtually all MSM, including of course Reuters, it’s the admittedly “skewed” CNN/ORC snap poll, that has been reported around the world, and boy is it “skewed” this time:

    10 Oct: SMH: Second US presidential debate: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in nasty debate
    by Georgian Mitchell & Josephine Tovey
    (scroll way down) So who won in an empirical sense?
    According to CNN’s poll of debate watchers (a poll they say tends to skew towards the Democrats because their supporters are more likely to watch), Clinton did well – but almost a quarter of the audience were expecting her to do better.
    Who was the winner?
    Clinton 57%, Trump 34%
    http://www.smh.com.au/world/us-election/second-us-presidential-debate-hillary-clinton-and-donald-trump-face-off-20161009-gryfcz.html

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    pat

    Nigel Farage should enjoy these two “pieces of work”:

    10 Oct: Reuters: Mexican peso rises after Trump-Clinton debate, pound vulnerable again
    Concern grew last week that Britain is heading for a ‘hard’ exit from the EU, where it prioritises full control over immigration over access to the bloc’s single market…
    A CNN/ORC snap poll of debate watchers found that 57 percent thought Clinton won the encounter, versus 34 percent for Trump…
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-markets-idUSKCN1290ZG

    10 Oct: Reuters: Wall Street set to rise after Clinton seen winner of debate
    A Clinton presidency would be more positive for the markets because her positions are more well known than those of her Republican rival Donald Trump, according to a Reuters poll.
    A CNN/ORC snap poll of debate watchers found that 57 percent thought Clinton won the encounter, versus 34 percent for Trump…
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-stocks-idUSKCN12A190?il=0

    NYT – Donald Trump Probably Stanched His Losses, but Didn’t Seem to Gain
    According to the CNN poll, Mrs. Clinton won the debate, 57 to 34 percent.

    finally, the following 27 sec video went seriously viral this afternoon – getting pulled by Reddit editors etc.
    Daily Caller is being unduly cautious with the possibly” in the headline.

    10 Oct: VIDEO: Daily Caller: Blake Neff: CNN Possibly Caught Coaching Post-Debate Focus Group
    CNN may have accidentally recorded itself coaching a member of its focus group about what to say following Sunday night’s presidential debate.
    A video uploaded to YouTube shortly after Sunday’s debate shows CNN discussing the debate’s events with a focus group of undecided Ohio voters, only to have a live microphone reveal more than intended…
    http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/10/cnn-possibly-caught-coaching-post-debate-focus-group-video/

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    9 Oct: Youtube: 2mins03secs: Nigel Farage says Donald Trump will sleep well after tonights debate
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HweDu62eftk

    10 Oct: PoliticalRef: Why the post-debate polls for CNN and YouGov are wrong
    The CNN poll, absurdly, found that Clinton won the debate by a twenty-three point margin, 57 to 34. CNN notes in its article that their results match voter preference from before the debate, where 58% of the debate watchers they are surveying support Clinton…
    The second big mistake that YouGov made was not adjusting its voter sample to reflect the population at large. The poll assumes that Democrats would outnumber Republicans in this election by 10%…
    In summary, the CNN poll is not a political poll but something more like a television analysis. It’s just not useful in a political context ***shouldn’t be cited.
    YouGov did an actual political poll, but did not apply a real likely voter screen and heavily oversampled Democrats. Garbage in, garbage out. IGNORE THESE POLLS.
    http://politicalref.com/permalink/16–10-10_CNN_YouGov_polls_skewed.php

    10 Oct: BBC: Presidential debate 2016: US media on who won in St Louis
    Meanwhile a CNN/ORC poll of debate watchers handed Sunday’s victory to Mrs Clinton. But the results also showed that Mr Trump managed to exceed expectations.
    Mrs Clinton took the win with 57% of the vote, the poll says, while Mr Trump managed to achieve 34%. The result could be considered a disappointment for Mrs Clinton, who scored 62% in the first presidential debate…
    http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37605661

    BBC is a joke.

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    pat

    now being picked up by CBS local & others – guaranteed to soon come to the MSM near you.

    gothamist is the earliest link found online – which says it was posted 12 hours ago:

    Gothamist: Gloria Allred Says More Women Are Contacting Her About Trump Misconduct
    by Jen Chung Oct 10, 2016 1:58 pm
    Allred, a Clinton supporter, was a delegate at the Democratic National Convention. She successfully fought Trump and the Miss Universe pageant to allow transgender contestant Jenna Talackova to compete in the Miss Universe Canada event. During the DNC, Allred told Variety, “I know the only way to beat Trump is to confront him, head on and to refuse to let him get away with his bullying behavior. I think people want someone to stand up and confront him. I think a strong approach with Trump is warranted and that Hillary is more than capable of fighting back and winning this battle.”…
    You could also contribute to the GoFundMe dedicated to a legal fund for anyone who leaks Apprentice outtakes.
    http://gothamist.com/2016/10/10/gloria_allred_trump.php

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    watched this today on RightSideBroadcasting, which pans around the crowd all the time. lots of fun. putting up this piece to counter-act the Allred sleaze.

    CNN videographer was apparently the so-caled “pool head” at this event &, as usual, ignored Trump’s request they show the crowd for TV audiences. says if Clinton had such a crowd, they’d be showing it. that’s when the crowd started chanting & CNN temporarily turned off their camera.

    thousands couldn’t get in:

    10 Oct: TimesLeader: Melanie Mizenko: Crowd roars at Donald Trump’s second appearance in Wilkes-Barre Township
    GOP candidate a hit on second visit to WB Twp.
    Over 9,000 of Trump’s biggest fans filled the arena for the “great movement.” And he thanked them profusely.
    “We’ve broke the attendance record,” Trump said as he opened his speech, over 30 minutes late, mentioning there were still people filtering in from the outside and asking if he should wait another hour for them. “Is there anymore fun than a Trump rally?”…
    “Even the polls are crooked,” he said, getting a loud cheer from the crowd…
    But the people in the crowd responded the most when Trump talked about how bad the media is. Chants claiming “CNN sucks” and “drop dead media” permeated the air.
    “Without the media, Hillary Clinton couldn’t be elected dog catcher,” Trump said…
    During the speech, Trump spotted a toddler, Hunter Tirpak, dressed in his likeness. He stopped the speech and brought the toddler from mother, Jessica’s arms.
    “Do you want to go back to them (parents), or stay with Donald Trump,” Trump asked the kid.
    “Trump!” Hunter yelled into the microphone. The crowd roared before Trump was able to continue his speech again…
    http://timesleader.com/news/local/595662/crowd-roars-at-donald-trumps-second-appearance-in-wilkes-barre-township

    MSM had disingenuous explanation earlier this year as to why “pool heads” can’t take the camera off him. lol. all reports quoted the Fox guy, Barrett, as if to say even a rightwing guy from Fox has had to call him out. of course, Trump has asked for any of the videographers present to show the crowd &, as he says, they do go instantly to the odd heckler, so this is simply more MSM spin & a means for hostile MSM to give TV audiences the impression Clinton & Trump are both playing to large crowds:

    7 Jan: WaPo: Erik Wemple: Donald Trump just cannot abide an independent media
    In a protracted rant, Trump complains that the media assembled to film his rally won’t pan around the venue to convey the size — about 15,000-strong — of the crowd. “Turn it, turn it, spin it,” he instructs camerapeople in the media pod, the better to pull in the crowd shots. “Spin the camera. Look at the guy in the middle. Look at the guy in the middle. Why aren’t you turning the camera? Terrible. So terrible. Look at him, he doesn’t turn the camera. He doesn’t turn the camera … I’ll tell you, it’s disgusting. The only time they turn the camera is if we have a heckler,” said Trump, who had made a side business of complaining that media outlets don’t properly capture the enormity of his following…
    “It’s so damn unfair, the press…That guy right there, who do you shoot for? That guy right there has not moved that camera. It’s disgusting. All right…He’s instructed by his bosses to not move the camera.”
    Correct, Mr. Trump! According to TVNewser, Wes Barrett, a White House producer for Fox News, posted a rebuttal on Facebook to Trump’s attempt to micromanage the Fourth Estate. The cameraman, Barrett pointed out, was the network “pool head on camera”:
    “By agreements reached years ago, the pool head on camera that is serving ABC, CBS, CNN, FOX and NBC is required to stay on a well-composed, tight shot of the person speaking. It’s protective, mainly in case something happens to the most high-profile person in the building. Every net has other cameras responsible for getting wide shots of the venue…Having a network head on camera at your event signifies stature and Trump and his staffers should understand this by now. He created an ugly scene for absolutely no reason.”
    Extreme narcissism and cluelessness, all in one tidy episode.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2016/01/07/donald-trump-just-cannot-abide-an-independent-media/?utm_term=.2871f0bda5b8

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    meanwhile, in democrat-controlled Detroit:

    10 Oct: GatewayPundit: Jim Hoft: Hillary Holds Small Rally at Detroit’s Wayne State University – TRUMP Flash Mob Breaks Out
    PIC: Hillary held another small rally Monday afternoon at Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan
    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/10/trump-flash-mob-crashes-small-hillary-detroit-rally/

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    best to keep the following on this thread, as it’s a continuation of pieces on the absolute corruption of the MSM.

    11 Oct: ABC: Crude oil hits year high on Russian commitment to production cap, Wall St gains
    By finance reporter Rebecca Hyam
    US politics also played a dominant role in supporting sentiment among investors, with a joint NBC-Wall Street Journal poll showing Hillary Clinton had increased her lead over Republican candidate Donald Trump.
    The survey, which was taken over the weekend after Mr Trump’s latest sexism scandal but before Sunday night’s debate between the two candidates, showed Mrs Clinton with 46 per cent support among likely voters, compared to 35 per cent for Mr Trump.
    A snap poll taken by CNN immediately after the debate suggested Mrs Clinton had beaten Mr Trump 57 to 34 per cent…

    Hillary Clinton’s lead grows in post-lewd video poll
    The Sydney Morning Herald‎ – 18 hours ago
    Washington: A new NBC/Wall Street Journal poll released on Monday shows Democratic Hillary Clinton with an 11-point lead over Republican Donald Trump in their race for president…

    11 Oct: 9News: AFP: Clinton draws record crowd as Trump’s popularity plummets
    A new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll, conducted after the video was released but before Sunday’s debate, showed Clinton with an 11-point lead in a four-way election – 46 percent to 35 percent – and a 14-point lead in a head-to-head matchup…

    would any of the above bother to check out the polls internals, who was involved, etc?
    not on your life, even tho WSJ belongs to their much-hated Murdoch:

    11 Oct: ConservativeTreehouse: sundance: Media Polling Fully Exposed – About That NBC/WSJ Clinton +11 Point Poll
    The Real Battle, is The Battle For Your Mind
    You have probably seen the latest example of the media claiming a released presidential poll from NBC and The Wall Street Journal as an example of Hillary Clinton expanding to an 11 point lead in the weekend following the “controversial” leaked tape of Donald Trump.
    The claim is complete and utter nonsense. Here’s the proof.
    We begin with a google search showing hundreds of media citations referencing the NBC/WSJ Poll…
    COMMENTS:
    CheeseHead: Real Clear Politics is totally in on the game too. They are using both the 2-way spread of +14 for Clinton and the 4-way +11 which obviously significantly increases their average spread in favor of Clinton by counting two results massively in her favor…

    BlackKnightRides: ADDENDUM: PRIORITIES USA, which funded this WSJ Poll, is FUNDED BY GEORGE SOROS in this election cycle alone, to the tune of $9.5 MILLION that we know of, through August 2016.
    Source:
    https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacgave2.php?cmte=C00495861&cycle=2016

    sDee: This pre-staged poll spread across the media instantly upon release. The Google search shows how sophisticated and tightly connected the State Propaganda machine is…

    nottakingthisanymore: Funny LA Times daily still has Trump up 2…
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/10/11/media-polling-fully-exposed-about-that-nbcwsj-clinton-11-point-poll/#more-123009

    there’s even more to this story once u know all the players, what SuperPACS are, etc. for example, the story involves a Clinton SuperPAC, Priorities USA:

    Wikipedia: Priorities USA Action
    Priorities USA Action is the largest Democratic Party super PAC. Founded in 2011, it supported Barack Obama’s 2012 re-election campaign. It is the primary super PAC supporting Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign. It is focused mainly on high-dollar donors. As of September 2016, it had amassed $132 million in support of Clinton. The top six donors to the super PAC have given $43.5 million, which is a third of the money collected by Priorities USA Action in the 2016 election cycle…
    The super PAC was founded in 2011 by former Obama campaign officials Bill Burton and Sean Sweeney to raise funds from wealthy donors, including corporations and unions, and support the re-election of President Barack Obama…

    poll was carried out by well-known Democratic pollster/public opinion strategist, Peter Hart/Hart Research.

    NBC/WSJ Pollster (Peter Hart) Leaked Findings to Hillary in Effusive Email
    http://freebeacon.com/politics/nbcwsj-pollster-leaked-findings-to-hillary-in-effusive-email/

    this NBC/WSJ poll has travelled far & wide, and done its dirty work, but only because the MSM is so corrupt.

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    finally, the headline of the 9News piece i posted refers to a rally Clinton had at Ohio State University Monday night.
    MSM is picking it up worldwide. i’ve posted Clinton’s Detroit rally link – comment #56 – which has her usual non-crowd.

    a pic by NYT’s Doug Mills is the only “evidence” of a large crowd:

    Twitter: DougMillsNYT: PIC: .@HillaryClinton on the campus of The Ohio State University.
    Tweets: H, there are not too many people. The picture is taken from far away from the corner to create an illusion. -t …

    also funny the only place you see H signs is in the lower left corner. I work in the image industry and this is a #photoshopfail…

    wow! It is a photoshop – you are right! I just saw closely…

    PIC: Photoshopped. Here’s the real pic…

    no signs in larger part of very white crowd. Weird!…

    look at the live stream – no wide shots cos the rear part of the crowd in photos is photoshopped…

    rear section of crowd is obviously photoshopped – look at tiny heads…
    photoshopped beyond the shadow. Just look. Same people…
    https://twitter.com/dougmillsnyt/status/785626433636806656

    compare with PIC from local media:

    Twitter: PIC: Tammy Mutasa WLWT: @HillaryClinton Post-Debate rally happening at Ohio State University @WLWT
    https://twitter.com/TammyMutasaWLWT/status/785607555737321473/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    the only shots of the “crowd” in video below are in the minutes indicated plus a few minutes before that. Clinton walks onstage at 46 mins. there are no more crowd shots after that, but it’s evident those in front of her are simply students, without signs, etc.
    only the usual manufactured bunch behind her, with their signs, behave like they are at a rally.

    36-46mins: Full Event: Hillary Clinton Rally in Columbus, Ohio (10/10/2016) Hillary Columbus Ohio Speech
    comments:
    With a student body of over 64000 students, I’m sure extra credit was offered to each student that attended the rally…
    Do they ever show her crowds? Why not?…
    A story in Politico said the crowd was 18,500. Either somebody mixed up a decimal or they’re lying to us again to make Hillary look good…
    This looks totally staged…
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCe01zYMARo

    this is what a rally should look like:

    2min58secs: 10 Oct: RightSideBroadcasting: Trump Asks the Cameras to Show the Crowd in Wilkes-Barre, ONLY Ours MOVE
    The first person to hold up a sign at a rally and get Trump to acknowledge that ONLY our cameras move and show the crowd, we’ll give you $500.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUFFAo2tZGU

    MSM claims Trump only asks “pool heads” to pan the crowd & they can’t because it would be a security risk for the candidate (lol), but he doesn’t care which videographer does the panning.
    truth is, they won’t do it because they want tv audiences to think Trump & Clinton are both playing to crowds.

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    pat

    can’t resist a final laugh or two:

    11 Oct: Columbus Dispatch: Darrel Rowland: Hillary Clinton draws big crowd at Ohio State
    The Clinton campaign said the ***Secret Service estimated the crowd at 18,500 when thousands watching from outside the secured area were counted. That would top the 15,000 President Barack Obama drew exactly four years earlier on the OSU Oval.
    The big crowd — a number topped by Trump at his rallies on many occasions — came as polls show Clinton gaining both in Ohio and nationally…
    No poll of Ohio reflecting the period after the video was released has been made public yet. However, a national NBC/Wall Street Journal poll taken after the tape was unveiled but before the debate showed Clinton ahead by 11 points nationally…The poll’s margin of sampling error was a relatively high plus or minus 4.6 percentage points…
    http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/10/10/Hillary_Clinton_campaigning_at_Ohio_State.html#

    WaPo covers itself by using “APPEARS” in the headline, & by giving a downgraded estimate, yet uses only NYT’s Doug Mills’ dodgy-looking PIC!

    PIC: 10 Oct: WaPo: John Wagner: In Ohio, Clinton draws what ***APPEARS to be her largest crowd to date
    Some of the traveling press corps members who cover Clinton were skeptical of the figure, pegging it at closer to 10,000.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/10/in-ohio-clinton-draws-what-appears-to-be-her-largest-crowd-to-date/

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    just checked this page before going offline & found this interesting bit of info. hope more info will follow:

    11 Oct: Freerepubli: Statespoll has Trump winning most polls
    Which is nice to see for anyone who is down seeing the MSM crap…
    comment #7: NIKK: I was having some trouble here last night while in the middle of investigating the picture that’s out of the Hillary Ohio event yesterday. I strongly suspect she’s using a particular man to photo shop her rally pictures. I first started suspecting something wasn’t quite right when 10 of her pool reporters were not at her event yesterday. None were reporting from the event. I could only find one posting a picture. Another picture surfaced and it looked like a picture of another event and while looking more into the pictures to have more comparison my freerepublic went down.
    I’ll get back with my findings.
    http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3479149/posts

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    video i posted last nite in comment #58 headed:

    Full Event: Hillary Clinton Rally in Columbus, Ohio (10/10/2016) Hillary Columbus Ohio Speech

    has been replaced overnite.
    still the same url & headline, but it is now a much-shortened 41min20sec video, (originally it was 1hr26mins. only the first 23 seconds approx shows the “crowd”, then it’s the Clinton speech.

    comments are still the same, perhaps a few more.
    this comment, which exaggerates the crowd on the low side, proves that the video was longer with other speakers.
    none of the early speakers are in the video at the link now, except for the guy introducing Clinton at the start.
    as i only skipped thru the video last nite, i only noted the woman referred to, plus 2 men. there may have been more in the first 40 mins or so.

    COMMENTS:
    Bags and Bling 9 hours ago
    1st young lady speaker said she (HC) was the ‘Breast Candidate’. Maybe she meant ‘Best Candidate’, but she definitely said ‘Breast Candidate’. Listen for yourself. As usual, Hillary’s campaign over-exaggerated the number in attendance. I WAS THERE. Maybe 200 -300 in attendance, most were students that happened to be there for something else.

    They just claimed that Hillary … had 18,500 people at this rally … NOT!!!!! … not even CLOSE! …. go to 32:30 mark .. you tell ME how many people are there.
    18,500 my a**! …. I give them 3,000-4,000 TOP !!! … the media lies and lies and lies and lies

    ArJuna22 12 hours ago
    Hillary Clinton’s campaign claimed there were ***10 thousand attendees at this rally in Ohio. We know the DNC and the media will always do their best to show the best possible camera angles to show the attendance at these rallies. There appears to be around 500 people tops at this event. It was nothing even remotely close to the 10,000 claimed.
    On the flip side, the MSM consistently refuses to show the scale of Trump rallies, which often number in the many tens of thousands, often more than 30,000 with many more turned away due to overcrowding, yet the MSM will only show tight shots of the stage and play down the attendance. America is being sold a false impression that Hillary Clinton has a nearly equal number of supporters as Trump, but in reality her support is only a fraction of Trumps support. They will then use the electronic voting machines to steal the vote. I am more qualified than nearly anyone to state that electronic voting is impossible to protect from cheating. I’ve written many posts on the subject and have also testified before a senate subcommittee in my state on the subject. I gave them my solution to the issue, which requires paper trails and the ability of each voter to anonymously check online later to ensure their vote was counted accurately. Paper ballots and encoded receipts could easily be used to both track the true results and ensure that voters who claim issues with their vote could anonymously prove their vote was miscounted. I understand how every single electron flows inside these machines and I intimately understand how all the layers from the hardware to communications layers and application layers could be used untraceably cheat the vote. Our republic depends on total faith in these systems. We are miles away from this level of trust.

    ***early press reports went with a 10,000 figure. check this AP photo as well – not as exaggerated as NYT/Doug Mills one, but also definitely nothing like 18,000:

    10 Oct: LA Times: Michael A. Mermoli, Reporting from Columbus, Ohio: Clinton’s tale of the tape: I’ll see your ‘Celebrity Apprentice’ and raise you Bin Laden
    PHOTO CAPTION: Andrew Harnik / Associated Press)
    Speaking before the biggest crowd of her second presidential campaign, more than 10,000 on the campus of Ohio State University…
    http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-campaign-2016-updates-morning-clinton-s-tale-of-the-tape-i-ll-see-1476146220-htmlstory.html

    sadly, Google keeps removing uploads of the following documentary, but watch it if u can catch it online one day:

    Wikipedia: Hacking Democracy
    Hacking Democracy is the 2006 Emmy nominated documentary film broadcast on HBO…
    Filmed over three years it documents American citizens investigating anomalies and irregularities with ‘e-voting’ (electronic voting) systems that occurred during the 2000 and 2004 elections in the U.S.A…
    The film investigates the flawed integrity of electronic voting machines, particularly those made by Diebold Election Systems, exposing previously unknown backdoors in the Diebold trade secret computer software…
    The documentary follows Bev Harris and Kathleen Wynne, director and associate director for nonprofit election watchdog group Black Box Voting, as they attempt to discover the extent to which it would be possible to alter results on the electronic voting machines of Diebold Election Systems (now Premier Election Solutions)…

    Bev Harris’s Black Box Voting:
    19 July: The truth about exit polls and vote counts: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primary by Richard Hayes Phillips
    (Richard Hayes Phillips holds a B.A. in Politics and Geography from the State University of New York at Potsdam, M.A. degrees in History and Geography from the University of Oklahoma, and a Ph.D. in Geomorphology from the University of Oregon. He has taught twelve different courses at seven colleges and universities. He is the author of many books and professional papers, including “Witness to a Crime: A Citizens’ Audit of an American Election”)

    [Updated July 20 to include full detail report] It has been widely noted that the unadjusted CNN exit polls for the 2016 Democratic presidential primaries, in many states, are at variance with the official results. Some believe the exit polls are accurate, and the official results are fraudulent. Others believe the exit polls are inaccurate, and the official results are true and correct. Some begin with one assumption or the other, and present their evidence selectively…

    It is my understanding that exit polls conducted in this country, including those posted on CNN, are adjusted to match the official results…
    What the unadjusted exit polls should closely reflect is the vote count at the polls, on Election Day. Some states have early voting, and all states have absentee voting, and these votes are counted in the official results, but early voters and absentee voters do not vote on Election Day, and would not be available for interviews upon exiting the polls. Therefore, we might sometimes see a disparity when compared to the total vote count…

    My use of the word “unadjusted” comes with a caveat: these are exit polls posted on the CNN website at or near to the time the polls closed, and they may already have been adjusted prior to that…
    All absentee ballots are cast on paper ballots marked by voters, even in states that otherwise have black box voting with no paper trail. Wherever a separate breakdown of absentee ballots at the precinct level is available, the absentee ballots can be audited. Wherever there are paper ballots at the polls, everything can be audited.
    http://blackboxvoting.org/the-truth-about-exit-polls-and-vote-counts/

    1min09secs in has the biggest shot of the crowd, in this heavily-edited, anti-Trump local ABC America video.
    (96 VIEWS, 7 COMMENTS):

    10 Oct: Youtube: 1min49secs: Hillary Clinton draws 18,000 to Columbus rally ahead of voter registration deadline
    COMMENTS:
    18 k? MORE BULLS** AND IT WILL NEVER END UNTIL SHE’S IN JAIL…
    i don’t see 18000 count heads 2000 tops vs 33000 for trump…
    “18,000″ people yeah sure and I herd also that Abe Lincoln was there too, the irony ?????…
    They are claiming a crowd of 18k, so far I’ve seen no proof of that …
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sm8mNecPiU

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    pat

    short video from Trump’s Panama City, Florida rally today. check the crowd. Right Side Broadcasting streamed the rally, but there was no panning whatsoever of the crowd, & the sound of the crowd cheering was very muffled.
    at the end of the speech, RSB person said they had no control, because they were forced to take the Associated Press feed for this rally.
    even so, there were about 26,000 watching the livestream i watched part of, & 388,000+ views of the video below so far.
    two live streams i checked of Clinton/Gore rally had 500 and 1,200 viewers respectively & an estimate i saw from someone who was there said there were about 500 people, which sounded about right from what i’ve seen online:

    Video: 2mins39secs: VIDEO AT TOP OF PAGE: Facebook: Donald J. Trump
    JOIN ME FOR A FEW MINUTES IN PANAMA CITY BEACH, FLORIDA. This is a MOVEMENT like never seen before- and will never be seen again. This is our last chance- lets MAKE AMERICA SAFE AND GREAT AGAIN!
    https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/

    how true when Trump says he used to get great press…until he said he was running.

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    pat

    i doubt this 1,600 figure for Clinton/Gore, which is what MSM is going with, but at least this piece puts the figure into some context:

    11 Oct: Sun-Sentinel: Al Gore tells Floridians their vote ‘really, really, really counts’
    By Anthony Man and Dan Sweeney
    In the heavily Republican Panhandle, Trump held an evening rally in Panama City Beach.
    He called Clinton an “all-talk politician” who is “crooked as a three-dollar bill.”
    “Folks, folks, we’re being led by stupid people,” he told the crowd of about 11,000 at Pier Park Amphitheater. Several thousand more people ringed the gates of the venue…

    ***Clinton’s rally at Miami Dade College was in the same gymnasium where former Gov. Jeb Bush announced his ultimately unsuccessful candidacy for the Republican presidential nomination in June 2015. Her lectern was in almost exactly the same spot as Bush’s.
    One big difference: the gym was configured for a much larger crowd for Bush than Clinton. The venue was filled to capacity for Bush, with at least 3,000 people on hand. On Tuesday, Clinton drew 1,600…
    Bill Clinton in Belle Glade
    ***In Belle Glade, about 450 people heard the former president argue his case for why his wife would make the best choice for president…
    On Wednesday, Trump is scheduled to appear in Ocala and Lakeland. On Thursday, Trump holds a rally at the Expo Center at the South Florida Fairgrounds west of West Palm Beach.
    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-clinton-trump-florida-four-weeks-20161011-story.html

    i’ve seen a comment re Trump’s rally:

    “Trump just spoke to about 22,000 people in Panama city. About 12,000 in the venue and another 10,000 outside”

    which is probably close to what the writers state, if you up their estimate for those left outside.

    GREAT PIC OF CROWD LINED UP FOR TRUMP PANAMA CITY RALLY – AS FAR AS THE EYE CAN SEE ON THE ROAD TO THE RIGHT:

    Dan Scavina Jr: En route to Panama City, Florida- from Texas, for another MASSIVE @realDonaldTrump rally at Aaron Bessant Park…
    https://twitter.com/DanScavino?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

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    pat

    former NYT reporter, Goodwin:

    11 Oct: NY Post: Michael Goodwin: The New York Times abandoned its integrity just to bash Donald Trump
    There is apparently nothing wrong with America that can’t be blamed on Donald Trump. He is single-handedly destroying the Republican Party, trashing presidential debates and spoiling the reputation of locker-room talk.
    And — breaking news alert! — Trump is even changing journalism. His habit of saying things that nobody ever said before is forcing reporters to unleash their partisan views instead of just giving the facts…READ ALL
    PLUS Dem’s truth on voter fraud
    Alan Schulkin will never eat lunch in New York again.
    The Manhattan Democratic representative on the city’s Board of Elections was caught telling an inconvenient truth, saying, “I think there is a lot of voter fraud.”
    Schulkin was being secretly taped by an undercover journalist, so maybe his party will forgive him for saying what everybody knows to be true.
    Otherwise, he’s going to be a very hungry man.
    http://nypost.com/2016/10/11/the-new-york-times-abandoned-its-integrity-just-to-bash-donald-trump/

    11 Oct: Youtube: 1min27secs: James Hoft: Former Democrat Signs Up One Million New Voters for Trump
    Fox News: The Trumpocrats have signed up one million new voters for Trump. 800,000 in Pennsylvania.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I3lIGhiMes

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    pat

    11 Oct: Gateway Pundit: Jim Hoft: CORRUPT MEDIA Lies About Hillary’s OSU Rally to Make Her Appear Popular
    COMMENTS:
    Here in Ohio, and we were there on the streets. Don’t buy this garbage. We registered a lot of students and almost all of the students were there only for the free entertainment. We got lots and lots of students giving us the thumbs up for our Trump shirts. Don’t believe the hype or the trolls…

    I have friends and family in Ohio who saw on TV the crowd. It was much larger when the music was going. Most left when Crooked Hillary was screeching.
    One view during the rally with Clinton on stage may have been 1500 at best.
    Lot’s of union shirts in the crowd also…

    She had a rally in Ohio 3 weeks ago, 500 showed up and media reported 2000, how do we know it was a LIE because the High School Gym only holds 800 and it was not full…

    These numbers are like the mainstream media’s polls. Complete fabrications meant to depress the Trump voter…

    I know the psy-ops is intended to be discouraging. It isn’t discouraging. It’s enraging…

    Hillary hasn’t had a single rally in over a year that even approached 1000 and they want us to believe these totally ridiculous numbers? R-i-i-i-ght!…

    ***This reminds me of 2008 when Obama appeared on stage during a free concert in Germany for a very popular band. Despite the fact almost everyone was there to see this band for free, our media lied and said they were all there to see Obama…

    the origial 18500 number came from a tweet of a Clinton shill that said the secret service counted them. since when does the service count attendees?…

    Let’s look at that NBC/WSJ poll they keep touting because it shows her 11 points ahead ETC…

    And that poll was done by a firm paid for by a hillary super pac…

    DJ Samantha Ronson would be a huge draw. She is the former girlfriend of Lindsey Lohan an sister of well known UK based producer/artist Mark Ronson. I did these free college concerts in the ’90s and they had crowds as big or bigger than this…

    This is much the same as the anti Brexit propaganda put out by the MSN in the UK before the vote occurred. Figures produced by the pollsters and others gave the Remainers a ten percent lead over the Leavers. As it turned out, the Remainers got it totally wrong and the Leavers won the vote by a good margin. Result total shock amongst the Remainers MSN mainly propagated by the corrupt and fascist BBC. A great day for all democrats and true libertarians in the UK…

    The kids came for the DJ Sam Ronson, Not Hillary. I noticed a lot of folks begging the kids to register as they stood in line for the concert by Ronson…

    Trump in a landslide!…
    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/10/corrupt-media-lies-hillarys-osu-rally-make-appear-popular/

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    pat

    ***Gateway Pundit & others online are pointing to the fact the MSM never adds those left outside rallies to the Trump totals, not that these phony Ohio numbers bear any resemblance to reality in the first place:

    Twitter: Jennifer Epstein, Bloomberg Politics correspondent covering Hillary Clinton
    (Previous Politico, Inside Higher Ed, Time Magazine; Education Princeton University – LinkedIn)
    Secret Service says this is 13,500 people through security and another ***5,000 outside their perimeter, which would make it her biggest crowd…
    (JENNIFERS HAS SECOND THOUGHTS)seems like it might be a bit of a generous count but not by more than a few thousand…
    REPLY TWEETS:
    Love how you 4got 2 mention this crowd came to see Samantha Ronson. I know 10 ppl there & not ONE came 4 Hillary. They support Trump…
    There is this new thing called the internet, you should check it out sometime Jennifer…
    https://twitter.com/jeneps/status/785628174071857152

    ***Emily missed the Clinton/Secret Service briefing!

    10 Oct: Newsday: Emily Ngo: Hillary Clinton hits Donald Trump for response to leaked video
    Clinton told the crowd of ***SEVERAL THOUSANDS gathered in the chilly weather at the South Oval at Ohio State University — one of the biggest rally turnouts of her campaign — that the only way to rebuke Trump is to vote…
    http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/hillary-clinton-hits-donald-trump-for-response-to-leaked-video-1.12436596

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    pat

    9 Oct: Stream.org: Astroturf ‘Outrage Machine’ of Paid Trolls Floods Social Media to Counteract Negative News About Hillary Clinton
    One supporter being paid to create multiple anonymous accounts does not constitute genuine support for Hillary Clinton.
    A significant portion of online support for Hillary Clinton is manufactured by paid “astroturf” trolls: a large team of supporters who spend long hours responding to negative news on the internet about her. The Clinton SuperPAC Correct the Record, which is affiliated with her campaign, acknowledged in an April press release that it was spending $1 million on project “Breaking Barriers” to pay people to respond to negative information about Clinton on social media sites like Facebook, Reddit, Instagram and Twitter. That amount has since increased to over $6 million. The trolls create a false impression that Clinton has more support than she really does, because one supporter will frequently create multiple anonymous accounts…
    Libby Watson of The Sunlight Foundation observed that the astroturf effort goes far beyond merely defending Clinton, to targeting and intimidating those who criticize her. She told The Daily Beast, “This seems to be going after essentially random individuals online.”…
    Brian Donahue, chief executive of the consulting firm Craft Media/Digital, explained the troll operation to The Los Angeles Times, “It is meant to appear to be coming organically from people and their social media networks in a groundswell of activism, when in fact it is highly paid and highly tactical.” He went on, “That is what the Clinton campaign has always been about. It runs the risk of being exactly what their opponents accuse them of being: a campaign that appears to be populist but is a smokescreen that is paid and brought to you by lifetime political operatives and high-level consultants.”…
    ***David Brock, a former right-wing activist who now works for Clinton and started the left-wing site Media Matters which ruthlessly targets conservatives, is credited with creating the online trolling project…
    https://stream.org/astroturf-outrage-machine-of-paid-trolls-floods-social-media-to-counteract-negative-news-about-hillary-clinton/

    until February, David Brock was on the board of Clinton SuperPAC Priorities USA, mentioned in earlier comments.

    10 Oct: LawNewz: Chris White: Questions About Illegal Coordination Between Clinton Campaign and Super PACs
    Federal campaign finance laws generally prohibit a candidate’s election campaign from coordinating with the candidate’s super PAC…
    The latest email dump from Wikileaks includes a legal memorandum that provides a perfect example of how far Clinton campaign lawyers are willing to go in interpreting what may be considered illegal coordination with a super PAC…
    The April 2015 memorandum outlines a strategy for the Clinton campaign to work with the Priorities USA Action Fund super PAC (Priorities) in a manner that campaign lawyers argue does not rise to the level of coordination under campaign finance law…
    The leaked memo is likely to raise additional questions about potential campaign finance law violations by the Clinton campaign. Just last week, the Campaign Legal Center filed a complaint with the Federal Elections Commission that accuses the Clinton campaign of illegally coordinating with David Brock’s Correct the Record super PAC.
    http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/leaked-memo-raises-more-questions-about-potential-illegal-coordination-between-clinton-campaign-and-super-pacs/

    crooked hillary…

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    pat

    all those Trump supporters who want to get the UN out of the US and the US out of the UN will welcome your opinion, Prince. more ammunition:

    12 Oct: ABC: AP/Reuters: US election: Donald Trump would be ‘dangerous’ if elected President, UN rights chief says
    UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Zeid Ra’ad al-Hussein said some comments by the Republican nominee were “deeply unsettling and disturbing”, particularly on torture and about “vulnerable people”…
    Mr Zeid, a Jordanian prince, also told reporters he does not plan to tone down his recent remarks decrying dangers posed by “populists and demagogues”.
    “Clearly I am not keen or intent on interfering in any political campaign within any particular country,” he said…
    “I always believe that it’s incumbent on leaders to lead and to lead in a way that is ethical and moral,” Mr Zeid said on Wednesday, when asked about Mr Trump.
    “The use of half truths is a very clever political device.
    “Because as every propagandist knows, you allow the listener to fill in the rest.”
    Russia’s ambassador to the United Nations has said Mr Zeid should not criticise foreign heads of state and government.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-12/un-human-rights-chief-trump-would-be-dangerous-if-elected/7927310

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    pat

    beyond belief:

    13 Oct: ABC: Donald Trump a ‘revolting slug’ unfit for public office, NSW Parliament decides
    By state political reporter Sarah Gerathy

    13 Oct: SMH: James Robertson: ‘Revolting slug’: NSW Parliament’s surprise Donald Trump condemnation
    As allegations of his sexually improper behaviour pour forth, the NSW upper house has passed a motion condemning Donald Trump and endorsing a description of the Republican nominee as a “revolting slug”.
    Greens MLC Jeremy Buckingham’s motion condemning Mr Trump was passed without objection or a formal vote on Thursday morning.
    “[This house] agrees with those who have described Mr Trump as ‘a revolting slug’ unfit for public office,” the motion read…
    President of the Legislative Council Don Harwin​ allowed the motion only after looking into whether the term “revolting slug” amounted to unparliamentary language…
    But because Mr Buckingham’s motion was not directed towards another MP it was understood to have been allowed through…
    ***On Thursday, several reports emerged of subsequent behaviour. The New York Times reported …
    ***Earlier this year, he (Buckingham) made a show of setting the Condamine River in Queensland alight to highlight what he claimed was the disruption of methane caused by nearby coal seam gas mining…

    ABC: ‘He was like an octopus’: Trump accused of inappropriate touching, New York Times reports

    ***Trump is considering suing the NYT, but isn’t this odd:

    Jan 2014: Guardian: Helen Pidd: Bill Roache ‘was like an octopus’, sexual abuse trial hears
    Woman claims Coronation Street actor’s hands were everywhere as he groped her in his dressing room as a teenager
    “He was like an octopus. Hands everywhere.”..
    http://archive.is/vfBXF

    12 Oct: NYT: Two Women Say Donald Trump Touched Them Inappropriately
    By MEGAN TWOHEY and MICHAEL BARBARO
    “He was like an octopus,” she said. “His hands were everywhere.”…

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