JoNova

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Weekend Unthreaded

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Weekend Unthreaded, 8.9 out of 10 based on 20 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/gl6osnl

179 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    Mark D.

    I got nothing much for the weekend except this first comment here at Joann’s blog! :)

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  • #
    Graeme No.3

    Interesting set of charts on NoTricksZone about solar radiation.

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    • #
      diogenese2

      Graeme – you might have given a link;

      http://notrickszone.com/#sthash.XObB2HB2.dpbs

      Pierre’s blog is the “go to” to appraise the state of play in Germany. Professors Luning and Vahrenholt are the premier urticarians of the warmist nomenclature.
      Peruse Pierre’s postings to get the state of play in Germany (and consequently that of the entire EU). There you can see (even in the proceeding post) how the power of the German greens has driven the EU policy and precipitated the insane “energiewende” that is destroying this powerful economy (and this a nation of engineers!)
      Here in the UK we are coming to our senses a bit sooner, but then we have much less money to waste and have run out sooner.
      But the awakening from coma is coming fast. There is now no chance of the EU ratifying the Paris Accord before the end of Obama’s term,

      https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=oh+dear+how+sad+never+mind

      though this is more from procedural inertia than will.

      The one regret about the Solar Paper is that it seems to preface a prospective Maunder Minimum with the heading “But it gets even better”. Not in bloody England it doesn’t! I suppose that it what they call “Schadenfreude”.

      130

    • #
      handjive

      AAS:
      Box 3.1: Do changes in the Sun contribute to global warming?

      In comparison with other influences, the effects of solar variations on present global warming are small.

      41

  • #
    Peter Miller

    Just once I would like to see:

    1. The official gatekeepers of the global temperature statistics, during their regular routine ‘adjustments’, have the data for the recent past rise and the present decline.

    2. ‘Climate scientists’ admit their computer models are very imperfect and deliberately structured to show a distinct bias towards future warming.

    3. ‘Climate scientists’ trying to reconstruct accurate past temperature records admit it is virtually impossible, unless the data is tortured and/or cherry picked so much to make it meaningless.

    4. A ‘climate scientist’ try and explain why the equivalent of CAGW cannot be seen in the geological record.

    5. A ‘climate scientist’ explain why carbon dioxide fertilisation and the subsequent greening of the planet is a bad thing.

    6. Someone try and explain why spending over a $1.0 billion per day to achieve almost nothing in a futile attempt to curb mostly natural climate change is a good thing.

    362

  • #

    Have just watched this on Youtube: Dr Patrick Frank demolishing GCMs.

    What do climate models reveal about future global average temperature? NOTHING

    What do climate models reveal about a human GHG fingerprint on the terrestrial climate? NOTHING

    Current scientific merit of predictions of future warming. NONE

    Reliability of the IPPC’s warnings of catastrophe. NONE

    Evidence of a looming climate disaster from CO2 emissions. NONE

    Well worth the time to watch.

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    • #
      Rick Will

      Frank’s analysis of GCM model error is limited to looking at only one of the many outputs. He is only considering the disagreement with cloud data and using that alone to project an error band. There are many other factors involved in the models with their individual error bands that could create larger divergences over small ranges. Climate modelling has now progressed to Earth System Models and these contain even more factors to tune.

      More tuning factors provides opportunity to hind cast more accurately to better fit model output to available data. The problem is that the models are still useless for forward projections as their basic premise is flawed. The one untouchable constant is the sensitivity to CO2. Essentially the more knobs to play with the more closely the historical data can be tuned while leaving the CO2 sensitivity untouched.

      The models also have upper and lower bounds on the variables (in some cases physical limits such as water freezing and zero humidity for example) to limit divergence. It would be necessary to consider the impact of each of these limits to actually define the error band. Frank’s simple correlation model is unbounded so the errors can diverge indefinitely. To get the error band from each model he would need to do actual GCM model runs with the sensitivity adjusted plus/minus 4W/sq.m rather than just considering the response of his simple model to that input error range.

      That stated, it is good work focused at the core of the debate. Skeptics have to understand and shred the climate models to undermine the basis of AGW. It is incredible to me that these flawed models have achieved such high level of belief and unquestioning following.

      71

    • #
      PeterPetrum

      Thanks FJ. That was fascinating! I am not a statestician but I was able to follow the the principle of what Dr Frank was describing. It is quite incredible that the whole global warming boondogle is based on such faulty statistics and that the instigators of this travesty either do not understand the problem or now do, but refuse to acknowledge it. The fact that he has been trying to publish for three years, but has been refused by six journals says it all, particularly as the three reviewers who were statesticians agreed with the paper, but the ten ‘climate modellers’ did not. Quite incredible that it has not been recognised that the margin of error at the end of the century will be plus or minus 15C, rendering null and void any forecast of temperature increase. The phrase “not only can they not forecast the temperature 100 years in advance, they can’t forecast it one day in advance” sums it up.

      112

    • #
      Geoff Sherrington

      FD,
      Pat and I found a common interest in the proper calculation of errors, some years ago.
      He knows his onions.
      Sometimes I feel that a researcher has had to have been where his income depends on proper error calculation, before understanding arises.
      It is all laid out in the French based Bureau of Weights and measures. Search BIPM.
      Geoff

      40

  • #

    We have this proposed concept called “atmospheric greenhouse gas theory”, promoted by the NOAA, NASA Goddard, and UCAR/NCAR academic meteorologists (atmospheric physicists). They are joined in this “promotion” by almost all Meteorological organizations, Bureaus of Meteorology, even some World Meteorological Organization. Is there even one physical piece of evidence that such so called theory has any scientific basis whatsoever?
    Just what precisely is this ‘theory’ theorizing? What are the limitations on that theory? Who did the physical verification of this theory? What scientific techniques were used in this verification? When was this done? It seems only some crocked up statistical models of average temperature of some Exoplanet, not Earth, that exists only within those models and nowhere else. Not even the various models can agree with each other. SHOULD NOT ALL OF METEOROLOGY BE BANISHED FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH?

    206

    • #
      Peter C

      Well maybe not altogether banished. Yesterday the BOM correctly predicted that we would have showers today.

      40

      • #
        Peter Miller

        The British Met Office boasts it is very good at forecasts up to 5 days ahead, not very good at 10 day forecasts, but absolutely brilliant at ones for 50 years into the future.

        Incredibly, there are millions of people who believe this.

        141

      • #

        It is easy to get the forecast one or two days ahead to at least 60% correct. 1/ decide that tomorrow will be more or less like today 2/ modify that by the weather occurring today to the west Eg for Melbourne look at the weather in Adelaide and Perth. Just doing 1/ will get one more than 50% correct. Forecasting further out than two days needs some extra information. Looking at cycles it is certainly possible to forecast seasons and seasonal rain. Weather is not random. Brisbane gets most of its rain in summer (Jan to Mar) and Melbourne gets most of its rain in winter. BOM with its super computer is not much better at forecasting than a farmer who has an interest in the weather and has family records of rain and temperature.

        73

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        The BOM was certainly correct. I had a shower this morning, and I will probably have another one tonight.

        20

      • #
        Lewis P Buckingham

        Yes I was quite pleased, it got the forecast right for this afternoon in Sydney.
        It could be that they are tuning their short range forecasts a bit better.
        Usually when they forecast ‘scattered showers’ or nowadays 10% chance of rain in 3 days time, I look forward to this happening, if is going to, four days in advance,rather than three days, then follow the forecast as it progresses.

        10

      • #

        Peter,
        The Weather forecasters are fine, very useful. They do a good job. at giving the best of what may deterministic in Earth’s weather, 62%, the other is 8% statistical, and 30% chaotic (or nobody knows)! They can give pilots what to expect from hear to yonder for 14 hours.
        The mess is in the ‘academics’ that attempts to lecture all on Why the weather is what it is! Yet no one on this Earth has the slightest clue as to WHY!
        All the best! -will-

        21

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      I think Piers site is about the only one that even comes close to long range predictions. http://www.weatheraction.com/
      As for the GHG theory its should be renamed the Big Hoax Theory, and be assigned to the dustbin.

      42

    • #

      Again:

      Just what precisely is this ‘theory’ theorizing? What are the limitations on that theory? Who did the physical verification of this theory? What scientific techniques were used in this verification? When was this done?

      Does anyone anywhere have any answers at all? :-)
      All the best! -will-

      01

    • #
      Rick Will

      The basis of the theory is underpinned by measurements made by Langley, published in 1890, to determine the temperature of the moon. The data was subsequently used by Arrhenius to calculate the influence of various levels of carbonic acid (CO2) in the atmosphere. The basis of AGW is fully explained in Arrhenius’s paper linked here:
      http://www.rsc.org/images/Arrhenius1896_tcm18-173546.pdf
      This is the cornerstone of all climate modelling. The climate models use this fundamental premise but are typically tuned to actual CO2 measured rise and global surface temperature change for a particular period, originally from 1970 to 1990. The early models gave similar results to what Arrhenius calculated. Model tuning against more recent time periods for the global surface temperature has reduced CO2 sensitivity.

      I suspect in 30 years time, when the models are tuned to the then most recent 20 year period the CO2 sensitivity will be negative. Although by then it is a fair bet that climate modellers will keep a low profile and the IPCC will no longer exist.

      The following link presents an evaluation of Langley’s work that you might find interesting:
      http://members.casema.nl/errenwijlens/co2/langleyrevdraft2.htm

      In the above you will find the details of the measurements, when they were made, who made the measurements and how that data was used to calculate the initial value of CO2 sensitivity used in climate models. There is also some independent evaluation of Langley’s work. I leave it to you to assess the value and application of the work.

      00

  • #
    handjive

    ABC Q&A; Prof. Cox v Sen. Roberts

    The 97% models v 100% empirical evidence
    ~ ~ ~
    > 97% AAS: 4. How do we expect climate to evolve in the future?

    “During the next few decades and beyond, global warming is expected to cause further increases in atmospheric moisture content, more extreme heatwaves, fewer frosts …”
    .
    >> 100% Reality: Warmer temperatures will not reduce frost risk for growers

    “Our actual crop simulation modelling has shown in many areas in the south and the west of the country that the last day of the serious frost risk has actually been receding, rather than becoming earlier,” he said.

    “The other thing is that they’ve actually been getting more frost days, even though the average temperatures have been going up.”
    .
    > 97% AAS: Box 7.1: Impacts of a drier climate: the case of southwest Western Australia

    “Declining rainfall and surface reservoir recharge since the mid-1970s in southwest Western Australia have been linked to changes in atmospheric circulation that are consistent with what would be expected in an atmosphere influenced by increasing greenhouse gas concentrations.

    >> 100% reality, spatialsource.com.au: Remote sensing reveals record agriculture yields

    “Strong rainfall across Western Australia this winter has led industry groups to predict a 16 percent increase in agricultural crop yields and perhaps the overall record for crop yields in the state. The difference compared to last year is clearly visible in satellite imagery derived from GreenPrecision that analyses the Normalised Digitised Vegetation Index, or NDVI, a key indicator of plant health.

    Based on early winter rainfall, the Grain Industry Association of Western Australia predicted a 10.7 million tonne wheat crop and a 17.3 million tonne overall winter crop for the state. If correct, this year’s yield would surpass the record 10.2 million tonnes wheat crop of grown in 2013 and represent a 16 percent increase on the 2015 yield.”
    . . .
    @briancox: How many unconvincing papers would it take to convince me to join the carbon dioxide cult?

    242

  • #
    tom0mason

    On the subject of extrapolating and homogenizing temperature data. When the data is missing from a weather station, and extrapolating and homogenizing temperature data product is substituted, if this gives an accurate result as claimed, then surely the station with the missing data was always redundant.
    Taken to its logical conclusion most weather station can be removed and their ‘data’ filled with computer generated extrapolated and homogenized products.
    Taken to the extreme I can see that only 2 representative temperature stations be required. Each fitted out with extremely accurate thermometers, one for the northern hemisphere and one for the southern.

    I wonder if by doing this the quality weather guesses reports would improve?

    :)

    142

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      A bounded random number generator would be cheaper, and probably more accurate.

      121

      • #
        tom0mason

        Rereke Whakaaro
        You’ve taken the next logical step!

        This idea I first proposed may years ago when someone over on WUWT site was defending the use of ‘infill’ temperature data products.
        He thought I was being flippant until I asked when will they know when there are not enough stations reporting the true temperature.
        As I said at the time if the use of ‘infilled’ data becomes routine (something he seemed to suggest) and less station are used (something that is happening), how will anyone ever know when the extrapolated homogenized product is even more junk than currently.
        Simply, how have the optimum number of temperature reporting stations been calculated, by who and when was this study done and how was it verified and validated?

        There was no reply…

        181

        • #
          ianl8888

          “Infilling” is just another word for interpolation – a fragile-enough technique that’s been practised for millennia; with the advent of computers, interpolation is now much quicker. Geologists have used it constantly, as have surveyors (think about topographic contouring) and … infinitum.

          Extrapolation (ie. beyond the actual data boundary) is much dicier than interpolation but commonly used nonetheless, generally without valid, or missing, error bars in climate science.

          Both interpolation and extrapolation are forms of statistical prediction, and are subject to determination by empirical data. The satellite grid used for temperature mapping (UHA and RSS) has the best grid coverage since 1979 and so requires the least interpolation/extrapolation – but because it consistently reports lower temperature ranges it is now routinely ignored by AGW advocates. Although this in itself was easily predicted, it makes no difference to the hypocrisy of the MSM “reports”.

          91

          • #
            Another Ian

            “extrapolation: the fertile mother of error”.

            Quoted in Herschel Smith’s “A History of Aeronautical Piston Engines” as said by the designer of the Comet 1 when that cause was found.

            60

          • #
            tom0mason

            ianl8888,
            ¯
            Indeed you are correct.
            What got me thinking and remembering was finding an old textbook from my early student days.
            ‘Numerical Approximation’ by B.R.Morton. Good grief it seems such a long time ago (1966).
            This slight volume contains so many gems of advice and techniques. I should have paid more attention to the Chapter 3 ‘Interpolation’.
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            My argument with the interpolation/extrapolation ‘infill’ for temperature data is that because many times the large distances used with variance in topography/geography/land use, means it is not (IMO) interpolation but at best a strange mix — extrapolated out (from 2 points) then knitted together with interpolation methods.

            E.g.
            Temperature station out in farm land misses data, so from two other city based stations 50-100km away are used as basis for the ‘infill’ product.
            IMO the result is nothing more than guesswork.
            Such examples have been shown on WUWT, Steven Goddard’s ‘RealScience’ and Paul Homewood’s ‘Notalotofpeopleknowthat’ blog sites over the years.

            91

          • #

            Ian, I disagree. Infilling as used by NASA GISS or BOM is not interpolation. If a figure is missing they fill it in with a figure that suits them eg a temperature is missing because of say a power blip (could be several days if relying on PV or wind generation). They then select a figure which could be from a working station 500 km away in a desert area. A method of interpolation is to use the readings on either side and average them but I bet BOM does not do that. I have looked at some rain data and found that a whole year was missing, then looked at the monthly figures and found that it was only one month that was missing. Then looked at daily figures and found that only one day was missing. To fill in that one day I looked at 4 surrounding stations within 20 km and looked at the daily figures to get a pattern of differences, I also obtained an interpolated figure by averaging the day before and after and then made an estimate for that one day. I feel my estimate was about 90% accurate. The end result was a new annual record for rainfall even if my estimate for the one day was 10% in error. BOM has in the past ignored data if some were missing. They have made adjustments to data such as cooling the past to suit their agenda of warming or have unscientifically cooled the past to match present UHI instead of reducing the reading with UHI to correspond with the past rural conditions.

            73

  • #
    John Boles

    It seems to me that so many of the greenies (Guy Mcpherson, McKibben, et al) merely pay lip service preaching the standard sermon about CAGW and then go on driving cars, flying, using electricity, heating their homes, etc. They seem to have an attitude that they are doing good work by telling the little people to stop using energy, and so they themselves are off the hook and free to use energy because they are getting the good word out, telling others not to use energy. It seems very elitist, anyone else notice it? I wonder how they justify it in their minds.

    231

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Moral self gratification is their addiction that comes at the cost of their honesty and conscience.

      Like others that follow this path is wonder if 72 virgin rain forests await them in paradise?

      141

    • #
      ianl8888

      Also known as Noble Cause Corruption – saving the planet is so noble a cause that any means are justified to help bring it about.

      This is an ineradicably dangerous mindset because it is so seductive. It appeals to the Achilles Heel of homo sapiens, vanity.

      70

    • #
      TdeF

      Perhaps the record goes to Pachauri, head of the IPCC for 14 years who flew 360,000 km a year, around the world every month to lecture on the evils of flying. Sharing the Nobel prize with author Al Gore, his background would not prepare him for the wealth climate would bring.

      “He began his career with the Indian Railways at the Diesel Locomotive Works in Varanasi. He joined North Carolina State University in Raleigh, United States, where he obtained an MS in Industrial Engineering in 1972, and a PhD with co-majors in Industrial Engineering and Economics in 1974.”

      Nor his co Peace Prize winner Al Gore “Gore attended Harvard, where he roomed with future actor Tommy Lee Jones. He earned a degree with high honors in government in June 1969 after writing a senior thesis titled “The Impact of Television on the Conduct of the Presidency, 1947-1969.”

      Or Australian of the year whose undergraduate degree was perhaps the lowest degree course in the country in entry requirement, English at the new LaTrobe University which at the time did not even have a lecture hall.

      So these three giants of science told the world to send vast sums of money to the UN to save the planet from imminent catastrophe. It really makes a joke of real climate scientists like Prof. Murry Salby who proved to his satisfaction that CO2 had nothing to do with temperature. It is possible Flannery had him removed from his post and left in Europe with no job, no credit cards and his return flight ticket cancelled.

      What is hard to understand is that the world even listened to Gore, Pacauri and Flannery. None have relevant credentials. Then a host of people jumped on the bandwagon, of varying degrees of qualification, so often quite inappropriate, from Sir Paul Nurse, Nobel prize winning genetecist and now Brian Cox, particle physicist and BBC presenter. People with really appropriate qualifications were just ignored, like our own Prof Ian Plimer and Prof Bob Carter. Better a railway engineer turned economist, essayist and ex Vice President and a man who studied ancient kangaroos, by how they have prospered! Gore is now a billionaire, Pacauri lived like one and Flannery is more famous than real scientists like Prof Salby. Life!

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    • #
      Mari C

      I have always wanted to see all the True CAGW Believers just up and move to a commune somewhere, live off the land near them, power everything with solar and wind. No using anything that relies on non-solar or non-wind generated electrical power in any way at any time – no cars unless pure electric and powered up at the commune, no bank accounts (outside power), etc. No “city” water or sewer, no flush toilets.

      If I were truly cruel I’d want to see them not enjoying even the -fruits- of non-solar/wind electrical power. No store-bought anything unless it was certified as being hand made and hand delivered (on foot, horse rider, etc) and not shipped via normal methods.

      No cell phones. No computer. No Burberry. No Banana Republic.

      I haven’t become so irritated as to be so “cruel” yet – but I am getting there.

      00

      • #

        “I haven’t become so irritated as to be so “cruel” yet – but I am getting there.”

        Why not? Staked out on an Arizona ant hill. Or hung inverted upon a cross by one spike through the scrotum; cannot be considered ‘cruel or unusual punishment’ for such confirmed sociopaths. :-(

        01

  • #
    diogenese2

    “Taken to the extreme I can see that only 2 representative temperature stations be required. Each fitted out with extremely accurate thermometers, one for the northern hemisphere and one for the southern.”

    If the objective is a consistent time series better representative than the tortured travesty in current use, then, at least in the NH, we already have one.

    http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/

    71

  • #
    Greg Cavanagh

    Word of the Day: Simony

    Buying or selling of something spiritual or closely connected with the spiritual.

    More widely, it is any contract of this kind forbidden by divine or ecclesiastical law. The name is taken from Simon Magus (Acts 8:18), who endeavoured to buy from the Apostles the power of conferring the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

    50

  • #
    el gordo

    Warmists tell me that the River Thames is unlikely to freeze over at London Bridge these days because of the changed hydrology. This has yet to be tested outside the laboratory.

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yEC78j02Fr4/VAsZR4q4hGI/AAAAAAAB8Jk/HsqaUtA3uoQ/s1600/f6%2B1684%2BAbraham%2BHondius%2BA%2BFrost%2BFair%2Bon%2Bthe%2BThames%2Bat%2BTemple%2BStairs,%2BLondon.jpg

    Abraham Danielsz Hondius in 1684.

    50

  • #
    Another Ian

    Chiefio takes a look at

    “isms, ocracies and ologies”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2012/03/05/isms-ocracies-and-ologie/

    60

  • #
    el gordo

    Wivenhoe Dam is in for a top up around the middle of next week.

    80

  • #
    Another Ian

    Another weekend read

    “A History Lesson for Howard Kurtz: Honest Reporting Died Long Ago”

    http://observer.com/2016/08/a-history-lesson-for-howard-kurtz-campaign-credo-was-lost-long-ago/

    Via SDA

    20

  • #
    Yonniestone

    We had our car stolen last Tuesday and recovered (damaged) on Thursday, we were not prepared for the emotional upset this caused and are still awaiting the verdict of being a write off.

    Yes SJW’s will label this a first world problem but unlike their climate demigods we use all technology available without exhibiting the gross hypocrisy of condemning it for anyone else that isn’t them.

    Good news is police caught the thief and have enough evidence to put them away, in the spirit of schadenfreude “May a thousand soap drops befall your thieving behind.”

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    • #

      Yonnie,
      In my part of the USA, well away from cities. If we have a fine automobile, the robbers consider that we also have fine weapons, and are “well trained” as in a Militia! A neighbor may well ‘borrow’ our vehicle when need be! Always returned full of gasoline, and with a thank you note. You in AU may well reconsider just what a “Well trained/regulated Militia” may actually mean!
      All the best! -will-

      60

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Well, somebody stole a gate from our farm.

      I say, “Somebody,” but we know who it was. I was going to speak to the person, by my wife intervened. She didn’t want him to take a fence.

      Boom Tish.

      60

    • #
      KinkyKeith

      Commiserations.

      10

  • #
    Peter C

    Interest in the Polar Ocean Challenge expedition seems to have faded away, but they are still gamely plugging on somewhere in the Laptev sea.

    From the ship log, 18 Aug:

    Well I came up on watch this morning at 0800. ice, ice and more b****t ice.

    and from a crew member blog, young Ben Edwards:

    So, for my fiftieth blog I thought I’d say something that is possibly a little unexpected…. I am miserable. ……. What really tops it off is that the end is by no means in sight. We’re not even half way yet. Though I have enjoyed other parts of the trip I just wanted it on record that the North East Passage has not been a positive experience.

    The plan is to circumnavigate the Arctic Ocean in one season traversing both the north east passage (Russia) and the north west passage (Canada).
    http://polarocean.co.uk/

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    • #
      Peter C

      According to this graphic from NASA GISS it should be plane sailing (ice free) at least as far as Alaska.
      https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/08/19/nasa-highly-unlikely-that-this-years-summertime-sea-ice-minimum-extent-will-set-a-new-record/

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        • #
          TdeF

          The extraordinary fact is that the average temperature of the arctic is 0C. (The Antarctic, summer and winter is a massive 25C colder.) Areas of the Arctic can reach 25C! I have enjoyed hot days in St. Petersburg at 30C. The North is much warmer than the South. However to state the obvious, 0C is the exact melting/freezing point of water, so the area is highly sensitive to the weather and you would expect huge fluctuations in ice extent without really meaning a great deal in terms of temperature in the region. The latent heat of ice would buffer this as it takes time for ice to melt and form and a great deal of energy is involved.

          So it is unlikely that the ice extent is predictable or that measuring it is indicative of world temperature at all as it is so sensitive to local weather events.

          However ice in the much colder Antarctic is growing steadily, both on the dry plateau and in extent. This is really significant and tell us the Antarctic is cooling rapidly. Best ignore it then. It does not fit the warming world story. Just concentrate on the perhaps very slightly hotter bits.

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            “However ice in the much colder Antarctic is growing steadily, both on the dry plateau and in extent. This is really significant and tell us the Antarctic is cooling rapidly. Best ignore it then. It does not fit the warming world story. Just concentrate on the perhaps very slightly hotter bits.”

            The arctic is a sea at sea level. The antarctic is a continent with a glacier surface 3.5 Km above sea level. Just what is the average atmospheric temperature 3.5 km above sea level? :-)

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              TdeF

              Good point, but unlike a single mountain, the Antarctic is the size of South America or two entire Australias.

              This cannot be ignored when calculating world temperatures and would act as a huge refrigerator dumping very dense cold air onto the Southern Ocean. It is utterly uninhabitable between -50C and -25C. No friendly penguins at 3.5Km in the air. Half the Southern Hemisphere is just water especially as Antarctica is like an entire ocean lifted up in the air, above ground level.

              How then computed a world temperature in 1900 is beyond me as no one had even been to the South Pole. Still we are told the planet is warmer. 0.5C from instrumentation change in the late 1980s and the rest from guessing the temperatures for half the planet.

              30

          • #
            el gordo

            ‘So it is unlikely that the ice extent is predictable or that measuring it is indicative of world temperature at all as it is so sensitive to local weather events.’

            Ice extent in the Arctic depends a lot on the wind and behavior of the NAO, at the moment there are predictions that this NH Spring will see coolness in Europe, warmth in north-east US and northern China.

            With sea ice at both poles operating normally it feels like the bipolar sea-saw has steadied. A lull before the storm perhaps, the NAO is known to grow seriously negative in winter.

            20

        • #
          AndrewWA

          It’s interesting that this plot shows the shaded area as just 1 Standard Deviation (containing 68% of results) about the average whereas most plots of information show the shaded areas as +/- 2 SDs (95% of results).

          Even the current Arctic plot is very close to lying withing the 2 SD envelope.

          The current Antarctic plot shows a level above the long-term average.

          I’d suggest that it’s ongoing situation normal.

          41

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      … ice, ice and more b****t ice.

      But think of the vodka martinis’, Tovarich.

      20

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    For all my loathing of Big Green and the climatariat, like many who come to this site I am a bit of a conservationist and alternative freak. Any thing to do with fermentation and fungi intrigues me…like this: http://gizmodo.com/the-technology-that-will-build-our-future-may-be-found-1693612047

    Of course, you have to ignore all the creepy cant about “building the future” and “sustainability”. What kills alternatives is faddishness and premature mainstreaming to fit political agendas. The environmental movement is the enemy of conservation and new tech because it imposes “solutions” the way Barack and Hillary impose “democracy”. For example, solar power is great, billions of dollars spent trying to mainstream solar power at 50+N in Brandenburg is the perfect way to misuse and discredit solar power.

    But imagine if alternatives could be treated as alternatives, if they received cautious investment, were allowed to advance or fail while we continued to build wealth now with stuff that works now (talkin’ ’bout our lovely Permian black coal here).

    We already have our “solution”: fossil fuels. Why not use the wealth from fossil fuels to muck about with new things? Green Blob is stifling the new by soaking up resources, picking winners and destroying credibility.

    Fight Green Blob!

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      Another Ian

      Mosomoso

      Also from Herschel Smiths “A History of Aeronautical Piston Engines” is the observation that if you come up with a new idea it has a much better chance of being successful if you just work on getting that idea sorted out.

      In that sense he lists Bristol’s adding just sleeve valves to existing engine technology to come up with a different but successful line of engines.

      The more new fangleds you add to the mix the less the chance, and examples are listed.

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        ROM

        The story of the development of Bristol Hercules sleeve valve engines during the period of pre and during WW2 is a very interesting bit of engine technology reading which I have read through a few times over the years.

        The Japanese in New Guinea and in the Island campaigns of WW2 called the RAAF’s twin engined Bristol Beaufighters “Whispering death” because its sleeve valved Hercules engines were so quiet under power and could not be heard for more than a couple of moments before the Beaufighter arrived on its firing pass.

        Final versions of the engine which was regarded as being very reliable reached 1700 HP.
        57,400 Hercules sleeve valved engines were built before production ceased as the new jet engines began to enter aircraft design and reach production.

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          Graeme No.3

          ROM:
          Many piston planes had “cones of silence” at various angles and the Beaufighter had its dead ahead. Mind you with an armament of 6 0.303 machine guns and 4 by 20 mm cannons (and the occasional load of rockets) there may have been another reason to associate them with Death.

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          Harry Passfield

          ROM, A little bit of history. My first squadron flew four-engined Hastings transports. They used Hercules radial engines. Fourteen cylinders with twin mags.
          One day a pilot landed and complained of severe vibration in ‘number 3′. We looked up to see a huge dent in the cowling. When we opened it there was a cylinder-head hanging by the two mag wires!
          I have (not so) fond memories of doing 13 10-hour flights in the back of these going to-and-fro Cyprus.

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      Rick Will

      One of the problems with solar and wind subsidies is that they stifle technology development. The subsidies make existing renewable technology economically competitive with existing fossil technology as they are, so the pace of development slows because there is huge investment producing what is essentially uneconomic technology without the subsidy. Ongoing subsidies removes the incentives.

      If you look into the renewable energy groups in Australia they are primarily concerned with political clout and lobbying politicians rather than anything to do with technology.

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        Andrew McRae

        Yep, aside from pumped hydro, there are no large scale energy storage mechanisms. Solar and wind are not effective unless the energy gathered unredictably can be stored on a large scale and released at a predictable rate. But don’t take my word for it, listen to the USA’s Bird-fryer-in-Chief.

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      mosomoso,
      Extinct animal oil is the very bestus lubricant ever discovered; it shall be used for no other purpose! Never for fuel! Coal is but trees that have not caught fire yet! Best for fuel until we can get the nuclear stuff working properly. That will not happen without the bestus lubricant ever discovered. High time to try to think!
      All the best! -will-

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      KinkyKeith

      Mosomo. The green blob is also destroying the future by creating generations of “thinkers” who have never experienced or used real logic nor are they aware of its existence outside of a TV program.

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      Geoff Sherrington

      Moso,
      No, I was never a follower of green trends. Very little of what they liked seemed practical, it seemed more like childish idea from people unused to real, tough times. Even today most green utterances read like authors who never let go of Peter Pan or the Tooth Fairy.
      About this, I apologise to no new age sensitive cuddlies.
      Grift

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    Robert Rosicka

    Just watching “Insiders” and was appalled by the idiots wearing tin foil hats in reference to Malcolm Roberts on QandA saying NASA have doctored climate records .
    They are obviously unaware that NASA freely admit that they adjust the data as do a lot of other organisations .
    Should have known better to watch this rubbish but the only fools were wearing the tinfoil hats .

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      handjive

      A couple of doomsday [[snip] types] suffering from “climate anxiety“, cackling at anyone who doesn’t believe in their imagined Global Warming Doomsday.

      It doesn’t get much more bizarre.

      As observed during the segment, the afdb wasn’t on tight enough to repeal ABC waves.

      If every person in favour of a carbon tax just went to their doctor for an assisted suicide note, the planet could be saved.

      [Editorial discretion applied.] AZ

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      John

      Yeah, almost vomited my breakfast. Definitely a Walkley Figjam award for being so far up themselves they were almost suspended from the ceiling.

      Actually the spiky haired pimple faced “cartoonist” from the Guardian would have improved his “cartoon” had he replaced the two senators at either end of Cox’s particle machine with Tim Flannery and Fran Kelly.

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    el gordo

    Much amusement.

    https://science.slashdot.org/story/16/08/20/194237/can-cow-backpacks-reduce-global-methane-emissions?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29

    ‘… Cargill has tried capturing some of the methane released from cow manure by using domed lagoons, while researchers at Danone yogurt discovered they could reduce methane emissions up to 30% by feeding cows a diet rich in Omega-3 fatty acids (mostly from flax seed). But now Argentina researchers are testing plastic “methane backpacks” which they strap on to the back of cows, and according to the article “have been able to extract 300 liters of methane a day, enough to power a car or refrigerator.’

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    ROM

    A couple of Jo’s blog posts back I mentioned that an 86,000 tonne cruise Liner, the Crystal Serenity with over a thousand passengers and some 600 crew were beginning a transit of the North West Passage across the top of Canada and through the Arctic archipelago.

    Their voyage began at Seward in Alaska and then on to Kodiak.
    From there it is supposed to go via Dutch Harbor in the Aleutian island chain and then north through the Bering Strait before heading east across the top of Canada and into the NW passage through Canada’s Arctic archipelago before going south along Greenland’s west coast.

    Fares for this cruise range from US $30,000 to $156,000.

    BUT, the Canadian Coast Guard claims it simply does not have the resources for a mass rescue in those extremely hostile and unpredictable and extremely changeable conditions in the mostly uncharted waters of the Arctic if things go ass up.

    Arctic rescue fears loom as massive cruise ship prepares to sail Northwest Passage

    ‘If the ship sinks, then that would actually break the Canadian search-and-rescue system’

    ————–
    And trouble already;

    And it seems that the cruise line has incredibly already managed to foul its navigation up on the first very short 176 nautical mile leg of the cruise which doesn’t give much confidence in the planning of the cruise line.
    Which of course implies that there is now the hopefully remote possibility of a major disaster occurring while in transit through the hostile weather and ice pack regions of the Arctic ocean in a soft shelled cruise liner that has no icebreaking or ice resistant and strengthening construction features .
    They claim to have a couple of ice breakers following them around but for one of those ice breakers at least, this claim may not be what it is claimed to be!

    Arctic Northwest Passage

    AUG
    18
    CRYSTAL SERENITY late into Kodiak with AIS equipment mis-programmed error saying destination SEWARD – NOT EVEN TWO USCG ESCORT VESSELS WITH AIS ADVISE CAPTAIN OF ERROR – WTHO?

    The cruise ship CRYSTAL SERENITY has departed Seward Alaska on a historic voyage over the top of the world through the Northwest Passage. First port of call from Seward is 176 nautical miles to Kodiak City. A late arrival? WTHO?

    I wonder how many other “little details” will happen during a 7,000 nautical miles CRYSTAL SERENITY cruise to New York… what this speaks volumes about is the Captain and crew are NOT USING A POLISHED CHECK LIST – Crystal Cruises claims to have planned this voyage for more than two-years, unlike an aircraft crew who uses a professional check list… CRYSTAL SERENITY’s master is flying by the seat of his pants or using a defective list… and the Chief Mate has not caught the AIS error either – who is supervising the crew – surely neither licensed professionals are at the top of their game… apprentices in training? OMG!

    Scroll down to Aug 18 date tag in the top LH corner of each post for more information.

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    el gordo

    Sometime back the Japanese sailed a sub up Sydney Harbor (don’t mention the war) confident of winning the tender for Australia’s submarine fleet, but they received a slap in the face when we gave it to the French.

    A Beijing state operation had hopes of buying NSW poles and wires, but we deem them a security risk and initially have rejected their generous offer. Our biggest trading partner is miffed.

    Polishing up my crystal ball I see ‘state of the art’ Jap Maglevs and Beijing built tracks, the beginning of a trans continental VFT network. Its Turnbull’s rabbit in the hat.

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      Dennis

      The concept of an Australian very fast passenger rail system angers some people when mentioned, I assume they are fed up with political announcements that come to nothing. However, the population growth projected for Australia over the next 100 years will create a need for people to live away from the capital cities, what are now big country towns, provincial cities, will hold a million people and they will need public transport to commute to work in the cities, and for many other purposes and reasons.

      I believe that your “crystal ball” is leading you in the right direction into the future.

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        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        I auppose it is possible to drive desalinisation plants with wind power, and pump that water over or through the Great Dividing Range to supply those new cities…
        Cheers,
        Dave B

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    Dave in the States

    It’s good for the soul to re-watch this Top Gear classic every once and awhile:

    http://www.topgear.com/videos/jeremy-clarkson/electric-cars-day-trip-part-12-series-17-episode-6

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      Willard

      Good reminder how much electric cars have progressed in the 5 years since that video Dave, check the V8 Supercar in this one https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6eGhjhx8O9M

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        Andrew McRae

        They’re incomparable. The Top Gear episode did not run a drag race. The comparison with fossil guzzlers was only in some of the operating costs, the range, and the Total Cost of Ownership. The Top Gear episode emphasised a lack of charging stations (in 2011) and high TCO over 10 years when battery replacement is considered. Furthermore they demonstrated EVs that a middle-income person could potentially buy for ~ £36000, not the £87000 Tesla luxury option.
        Where in the aussie drag race fluff piece did the presenters quote the Tesla’s battery replacement cost?
        Where in the fluff piece did the presenters quote the availability of Tesla-compatible charging stations?
        Where in the fluff piece did the presenters quote how much a Tesla with that level of performance has decreased in price in the last 5 years, or compare an EV and a gas guzzler of the same street price or same 10-year TCO?
        How does your video link establish in any way your claim “electric cars have progressed in the 5 years since that video”?

        I have no doubt battery technology has improved in EVs in the last 5 years and the value proposition for them is consequently getting better. To judge all EVs today based on a 2011 video would be like judging the aircraft of 1938 on the basis of Kitty Hawk Flyer newspaper reports from 1906.
        So surely Willard can find a better argument for EVs than a 1/4 mile drag in a top tier $150,000 Tesla?

        Aside from technical progress, one has to wonder why buy one? The eco-friendly logic of the EV is to cut the footprint of the transportation that people most often do, which is short distances from home to shops or medium distance between home and work. But a lot of planet-conscious people already use public transport to go to work whenever possible, which at peak load is much more efficient than if everyone had a Tesla. Plus at $150k per car the Tesla will leave you without a home to go to. Of course the Elon-huggers probably like the sound of that too.

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          Willard

          Your quote Andrew,
          To judge all EVs today based on a 2011 video would be like judging the aircraft of 1938 on the basis of Kitty Hawk Flyer newspaper reports from 1906.

          Well said,
          although to be fair Dave only posted the 2011 video because it was a fun segment from an entertainment show.

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        RB.

        Its advantage is a large amount of torque at take off whereas the super car would have a diff ratio for high top speeds and so would have to take off at low revs and torque to not spin the tyres. It has a 0-100km/h at about 4 sec while the latest hybrid supercars will do it in under 3 s. In a comparison 6 years ago, a 911 turbo beat the V8 in a 0-200 drag (400m) but the V8 was better around the track because it accelerates better 100-200+

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          Willard

          Absolutely right RB, the only things in common are 4 wheels and 4 doors, really no comparison between a million dollar purpose built stripped out race car and a fully optioned overweight sedan, the Tesla has no chance beating the supercar after the first corner and the supercar will be useless in peak hour traffic, all a bit of light entertainment for the motorheads.

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    Andrew McRae

    Had a chortle at this ABC doco, “Freedom riders”
    http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2016/s4499198.htm

    How do you free troubled kids from the violence and poverty of South Africa’s broken townships?

    I know! I know! Give them cheap electricity from coal power to provide the infrastructure on which higher value-adding trade can build to create wealth endemically, leading to less desperation and less crime.

    Wait, I’ve forgotten where I am, haven’t I.

    For starters, you teach them surfing.

    Sorry, I got the politically incorrect answer. I will send myself to Progressive re-education gulag immediately.

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    liberator

    So Brain Cox now admits that NAA/GISS adjusts global temperature data – but they have a reason for doing so and hes happy with it. Cant find the damn link now….

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      Andrew McRae

      Good. The truth of the matter, whatever it may be, moves closer to the public’s eye. This can only get better.

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    el gordo

    Inuit habitats trampled by curious tourists.

    “This is extinction tourism,” said international law expert Professor Michael Byers, of the University of British Columbia. “Making this trip has only become possible because carbon emissions have so warmed the atmosphere that Arctic sea ice in summer is disappearing. The terrible irony is that this ship – which even has a helicopter for sightseeing and a huge staff-to-passenger ratio – has an enormous carbon footprint that is only going to make things even worse in the Arctic.”

    Guardian

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    I was reading an article about Colorado placing restrictions on Hydraulic Fracturing, and mention was made of the use of the Natural gas for power generation.

    I have mentioned before about how those older coal fired plants are closing in the U.S. and how that is being used to hype the demise of coal fired power. The plants which are closing are the old, (mostly 50 years plus) and smaller plants. (up to 50MW, mainly a lot of them around 10MW Nameplate)

    They are mainly being replaced in their totality by New tech Natural Gas turbine driven plants.

    As an exercise, I wondered about the mix between coal fired and gas fired, and what the percentage might be for total power generation.

    Back in 2006, the mix was 68.5% of all U.S. power generation was from coal fired and natural gas fired plants, and the Renewables of choice (wind and both solar) came in at around 0.9%

    Now ten years later with Coal fired power dropping from 48% of the total to now only 33%, the mix is such that coal plus Natural gas fired power is contributing 66.5%, so a drop of only 2%.

    Those renewables, wind and both solar are only just touching 5%.

    Admitted, Natural Gas has less emissions than coal fired power, but the reality is that fossil fuel power generation is virtually the same as it was before this rush to renewables.

    Isn’t it amazing that the truth never lines up with the hype.

    Incidentally, with no new Nuclear power plants and with those even closing also, the percentage for Nuclear power has, umm, risen, from 19.3% to 19.5%.

    Also, in this day and age of making efficiencies in power consumption, total power generation has risen by 0.6% overall, so it would seem that even rooftop solar is also making very little impact, further highlighted when the mix of consumption is shown

    2006 – Residential at 36.9%, Commerce at 35.4% and Industrial at 27.5%
    2015 – Residential at 37.6%. Commerce at 36.5% and Industrial at 25.6%

    Funny too how the truth is always stranger than Fiction what is reported. (well, same thing I suppose)

    Tony.

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    pat

    from BBC’s “Uber to deploy self-driving cars in Pittsburgh” to SMH/FitzSimon’s:

    21 Aug: SMH: Peter FitzSimons: The future is nearly here with driverless cars – and it’s bright
    But in Pittsburgh on Thursday, Uber and Volvo announced a $US300 million partnership that will see, in a matter of weeks, people in that city able to order up a driverless car to take them where they want to go. Stunning, yes?…

    the MSM has been uniformly gaga over the latest Uber boast.
    however, if u search hard, u might find that not everyone is impressed:

    18 Aug: Mashable: Lance Ulanoff: Sorry, driverless cars are not in your near future
    It’s time for some real talk about self-driving cars: they’re not coming around any time soon.
    You won’t find a bigger fan of the technology than me. I love robots, autonomy and artificial intelligence…
    But I’m also a realist — and despite recent promises by Uber and Ford, I know that self-driving cars are decades away from becoming a significant part of our lives.
    You have to love Ford and its promise of a driverless car by 2021 — a mere five years from now. We’re not just talking about an automobile that can drive itself, but one without steering wheel or floor pedals. This is what’s known in the world of car autonomy as a Level 5. (Ford actually insists it’s a 4, mostly because the car will sometimes follow a mapped out route. Let’s agree to disagree and put it at 4.5).
    The passenger is just that, a passenger with zero control. Ford coupled its announcement with a picture of a tooled-up Ford Fusion.
    Wait, what? Ford’s state-of-the-art self-driving vehicle is a run-of-the-mill sedan with a LIDAR system strapped on top of it?.
    It was clear to me that Ford simply needed a photo that it could hand to the media, something reporters could run alongside the forward-leaning announcement. This driverless, ride-share car doesn’t exist yet — even in concept form…
    A few days after Ford’s human-free car announcement, Uber revealed that it was ready – within 30 days – to put self-driving Ubers on the roads of Pittsburgh. Some writers conflated the mention of autonomy with “driverless,” and many saw this as a breakthrough. I did not…
    Uber has been focusing much of its driverless car work in Pittsburgh for well over a year…
    But Kalanick’s desires and the promise of self-driving Uber cars can’t magically transform local traffic and highway laws.
    ***Under Pennsylvania law, in fact, these self-driving cars cannot be “driverless.”
    “You still have to have a person with a driver’s license behind the wheel of an autonomous vehicle,” said Tim McNulty, spokesman for Pittsburgh Mayor William Peduto…
    In other words, this Uber rollout is not some giant step for autonomous kind. Instead, some people in and around the relatively small neighborhood of Hazelwood, a suburb of Pittsburgh, may soon find themselves in an Uber with a driver who just sits there and does nothing…
    At least Uber isn’t over-promising. They’re just telling us very, very little about what this pilot program is and letting us filling the blanks with details from local officials and, sometimes, our own fanciful ideas…
    http://mashable.com/2016/08/18/ford-uber-driverless-cars-analysis/

    16 Aug: David Muller: mLive: Reports: Tesla Model S bursts into flames during test drive in France
    The Model S sedan was cruising on the boulevard d’Aritxague in Bayonne in the southwest of France when the incident occurred.
    The driver of the car told French media outlet Sud Ouest that after a little acceleration there was a warning noise in the car, at which point the Tesla host told the driver to pull over so she could call Tesla about the issue before continuing the test drive.
    The trio then saw white smoke, and exited the vehicle. The driver, identified only as Nicolas, said the car was engulfed in flames in less than a minute and totally destroyed within five minutes. No one was injured…
    http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/2016/08/reports_tesla_model_s_bursts_i.html

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    RB.

    A bit slow but if anyone is interested,

    the August mean from 1981-2005 at Brighton beach in England is 0.6°C cooler than Maroubra. Southern Hemisphere SST (HadSST3) shows 0.4°C warming since 1950. The Bondi Iceberg club were competing at the Bondi baths since the thirties.

    From time to time during the winter months, reference is made to the “Bondi Icebergs.” The question is, why “Icebergs,” when the temperature of the water during June, July and August Is always much warmer than the air, and it is just by comparison with the air temperature how the water feels to the bather. At Coogee in the morning, about 7.30, there are winter bathers in the surf aged from four years to 75, children, men and women.

    Relevant to the Q&A twit who used Brits swimming at Maroubra in August as a global warming metric.

    Does any one know what happened with the FBI investigation at the Johnson Space Centre at NASA in the early 90s?

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    David Maddison

    Greg Barber MP is posting the usual warmist nonsense on Facebook. You might want to make some comments to supplement mine.

    https://www.facebook.com/GregBarberMP/posts/1765305693740696

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    pat

    hehehe…
    19 Aug: UK Daily Mail: Leo, a missing $3bn and the real-life Great Gatsby: How Wolf of Wall Street star’s glitzy eco-foundation become embroiled in a shady international money laundering scam that casts a VERY unflattering light on his environmental crusading
    •The Department of Justice believes multiple donations to Leonardo DiCaprio’s foundation came from a Malaysian money laundering scandal
    •Malaysian playboy and businessman Jho Low, 35, was a friend of the recent Oscar winner
    •Low is alleged to have used stolen money from a Malaysian sovereign wealth fund called 1MDB to spend at DiCaprio’s lavish charity auctions
    •Includes spending $3million, with Joey McFarland on marked-up bottles of champagne in 2013
    •He then used $1.1million, allegedly from the 1MBD fund, to buy artwork by Ed Ruscha and Mark Ryden at an auction benefiting the foundation
    •Scandal is also tied to DiCaprio’s The Wolf of Wall Street movie
    •Film was funded by Red Granite Pictures – set up by stepson of Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak who is at the center of the inquiry
    •There is no suggestion DiCaprio was aware that the donations or funding for his film was linked to the 1MBD scandal
    •U.S. government moved to seize $1 billion of assets bought with money it said was stolen from 1MDB by people close to Najib
    •Around $3 billion is believed to have been siphoned from the 1MDB fund
    by Hannah Parry & Regina F. Graham
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3745839/Multiple-donations-Leo-DiCaprio-s-foundation-came-Malaysian-money-laundering-scandal-environmental-gala-saw-guests-flown-helicopter-served-sea-bass.html

    political fall-out?

    20 Aug: The Wrap: Leonardo DiCaprio Out, Justin Timberlake In as Clinton Fundraiser Host
    by Rosemary Rossi
    Earlier reports suggested the change was in response to a Department of Justice investigation into ties between his foundation and a $3 billion embezzlement scheme, but a person with knowledge of the situation told TheWrap the change was due to “scheduling issues” on DiCaprio’s part…
    The sudden change in party plans come just three days after The Leonardo DiCaprio Foundation was revealed to be facing questions from the Justice Department about a financial connection to a $3 billion Malaysian embezzlement scandal.
    DiCaprio’s personal ties to the figure at the center of the accusations, financier Jho Low, have been known for some time.
    Low, a gambling and partying buddy of the “Revenant” star, is accused by the DOJ of siphoning off more than $3 billion from a Malaysian sovereign wealth fund, 1MDB, and treating it essentially like a personal piggy bank, buying increasingly extravagant items and ingratiating himself with Hollywood A-listers.
    http://www.thewrap.com/leonardo-dicaprio-out-justin-timberlake-in-as-clinton-fundraiser-host/

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    ROM

    A lot of commenters here on Jo’s blog are shall we say politely,rather scathing about the UN, a sentiment that I basically agree with.
    The UN bureaucrats like the EU bureaucrats appeared to be untouchable, arrogant and very condescending particularly to the smaller and less developed nations.

    Well maybe the worm has turned and the UN bureaucrats have over done the denigrating and criticising of nations and their leaders for taking various actions that the overpaid and over here UN bureaucrats in their highly protected and wealthy enclaves disapprove of and openly condemn although they have never ever experienced the conditions that the leaders of some of these nations are trying to gain control over so as to once again control their own nation’s destinies.

    Maybe this following might begin to make the arrogant little UN upstarts just a little insecure as their wealthy, cosy utterly hypocritical little world shows the first signs of a possible disintegration.

    Philippines’ Rodrigo Duterte threatens to leave UN

    Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte has threatened to “separate” from the UN after it criticised his war on drugs as a crime under international law.

    Mr Duterte said he might ask China and African nations to form another body. He also accused the UN of failing on terrorism, hunger and ending conflicts.

    Mr Duterte, elected in May, has sanctioned the killing of traffickers to try to wipe out the drugs trade.

    The UN has repeatedly condemned the drive as a violation of human rights.
    Some 900 suspected drug traffickers have been killed since Mr Duterte was elected on 9 May.

    In an expletives-laden tirade against the UN on Sunday, Mr Duterte branded the experts “stupid”, saying they should count the number of innocent lives lost to drugs.

    “I do not want to insult you. But maybe we’ll just have to decide to separate from the United Nations,” he said.
    “If you are that rude, we might just as well leave,” he said.
    “So take us out of your organisation. You have done nothing. Where were you here the last time? Never. Except to criticise,” he said.

    Mr Duterte said the UN should refund its contribution “so we can go out”.

    Mr Duterte said the UN had been unable to combat hunger and terrorism and had failed to end the killing of civilians in Iraq and Syria.
    “You now, United Nations, if you can say one bad thing about me, I can give 10 [about you]. I tell you, you are [useless]. Because if you are really true to your mandate, you could have stopped all these wars and killings.”

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      theRealUniverse

      Problem for the Washington is that they have lost their puppet Aquino the 3rd, and Duterte hasn’t been favorable to Washington’s requests, esp on the S China sea.

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    pat

    21 Aug: International Business Times: Christian Saclao: Why Did Leonardo DiCaprio Ask Justin Timberlake And Jessica Biel To Take His Place As Host Of Hilary Clinton Fundraiser?
    DiCaprio is currently not filming a movie, but he is busy producing the documentary “The Turning Point,” which is expected to premiere at the Toronto International Film Festival on Sept. 9.
    The movie is a look at how climate change affects the environment and what the society can do to prevent the demise of endangered species, ecosystems and native communities across the planet. It will feature U.S. president Obama, Bill Clinton, secretary of state John Kerry, United Nations secretary-general Ban Ki-moon and Pope Francis…
    http://www.ibtimes.com/why-did-leonardo-dicaprio-ask-justin-timberlake-jessica-biel-take-his-place-host-2404845

    20 Aug: Hollywood Reporter: Gary Baum: Leonardo DiCaprio Backs Out of Hillary Clinton Fundraiser
    Hillary and Bill Clinton’s own eponymous charitable foundation has been the subject of intense scrutiny during the campaign, particularly its connection to foreign money. The Clinton Foundation has said it would not accept foreign contributions if Hillary is elected president. One source with experience planning presidential fundraisers said it would be a “no brainer” to keep DiCaprio away from a Clinton event amid the 1MDB suit and press reports, but another said candidates tend to have a lower standard for vetting of celebrity fundraisers…
    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/leonardo-dicaprio-backs-hillary-clinton-921326

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    pat

    btw for those who are not familiar with the 1MDB scandal in Malaysia, here’s plenty of background (much, much more at the link):

    Wikipedia: 1Malaysia Development Berhad scandal (1MDB)
    The 1Malaysia Development Berhad Scandal is an ongoing political scandal occurring in Malaysia…
    1MDB has an estimated $12 billion in debt, much currently rated as junk bonds. Some of this debt resulted from a $3 billion state-guaranteed 2013 bond issue led by Goldman Sachs, who is believed to have made as much as $300 million in fees from that deal alone, although it disputes this figure…
    During the October 2010 parliamentary session, 1MDB explained that its accounts had been fully audited and signed by KPMG, and closed as of 31 March 2010. Deloitte was involved in the valuation and analysis of the portfolio, while Ernst & Young provided tax advice for 1MDB…
    It was reported by news portal Sarawak Report and British newspaper The Sunday Times using leaked email correspondences that Penang-based financier Jho Low, who has ties with Najib’s stepson was able to siphon US$700 million from a joint venture deal between 1MDB and the leading oil exploration and production company PetroSaudi…

    ***Another report by the WSJ pointed out that 1MDB, in connection with a United States political fundraiser DuSable Capital Management LLC that had ties to Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton signed a joint venture agreement, creating a fund Yurus PE Fund to develop solar power plants in Malaysia…

    The Australian fund management company Avestra Asset Management, which managed up to 2.32 billion in 1MDB funds, is being liquidated, and is under investigation by the Australian Securities and Investments Commission for reported breaches of the law and potential losses to its members…
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1Malaysia_Development_Berhad_scandal

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    pat

    the MSM blackout of the George Soros leaks continues.
    this piece is terrific, it brings homr how much of the daily media narrative mirrors the Soros narrative:

    21 Aug: Cyprus Mail: Jean Christou: Soros’ eyes are on our MEPs
    In hundreds of documents hacked last weekend detailing what some might call Soros’ meddling in world affairs, one of them ‘maps’ ***226 potential allies in the European Parliament, among them Solidarity’s Eleni Theocharous, and AKEL’s Neoclis Sylikiotis and Takis Hadjigeorgiou…
    But his stated agenda of a totally ‘open society’ from interviews he has done is a little more sinister, and organisations he funds are in many cases producing the radical-left parents, teachers and leaders of the future.
    In defining an ‘open society’ he once wrote: “Perhaps the most striking characteristic of a perfectly changeable society is the decline in personal relationships. Friends, neighbours, husbands and wives would become, if not interchangeable, at least readily replaceable by only marginally inferior (or superior) substitutes.”
    In a 1993 interview with the Independent Soros said he saw himself as “some kind of god, the creator of everything”, a bit like the God of the Old Testament. “You know, like invisible. I was pretty invisible. Benevolent. I was pretty benevolent. All-seeing. I tried to be all-seeing.” His goal was “to become the conscience of the world”, he said…READ ON
    http://cyprus-mail.com/2016/08/21/soros-eyes-meps/

    reminder. btw Moyers was, apparently, a trustee at the Open Institute:

    VIDEO: Oct 2008: PBS: Bill Moyers Journal: Interview with George Soros
    TRANSCRIPT: GEORGE SOROS:No, I think our ability to govern ourselves doesn’t keep pace with our ability to exercise power over nature, control over nature. So we are very complicated civilization. And we could actually destroy our civilization because of our inability to govern ourselves…
    GEORGE SOROS:…So, yes, you must have, in my opinion, you need, for instance, a tax on carbon emissions. But that is unacceptable politically. So we are going to have cap and trade. And the trading will have all kinds of loopholes and misuse of the regulations and all kinds of ways of making money without actually dealing with the problem that it’s designed to cure. So that’s how the political process distorts things…

    BILL MOYERS:So let’s think about those people down at Neely’s Barbecue going home tonight having heard you…So let’s leave them something to think about as they go home. Let them go home and say, “Mr. Soros said here are three things we can do, simply.” One?

    GEORGE SOROS: Well, deal with the mortgage problem. Reduce foreclosures. Recapitalize the banks. And then work on a better world order where we work together to resolve problems that confront humanity like global warming. And I think that dealing with global warming will require a lot of investment.
    You see, for the last 25 years the world economy, the motor of the world economy that has been driving it was consumption by the American consumer who has been spending more than he has been saving, all right? Than he’s been producing. So that motor is now switched off. It’s finished. It’s run out of — can’t continue. You need a new motor. And we have a big problem. Global warming. It requires big investment. And that could be the motor of the world economy in the years to come.

    BILL MOYERS: Putting more money in, building infrastructure, converting to green technology.

    GEORGE SOROS: Instead of consuming, building an electricity grid, saving on energy, rewiring the houses, adjusting your lifestyle where energy has got to cost more until it you introduce those new things. So it will be painful. But at least we will survive and not cook.
    BILL MOYERS: You’re talking about this being the end of an era and needing to create a whole new paradigm for the economic model of the country, of the world, right?
    GEORGE SOROS: Yes…
    http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10102008/watch.html

    recent:

    2 Aug: CompleteColorado: Simon Lomax: Steyer’s got company: Billionaire George Soros makes a play for Colorado’s state legislature
    Left-wing billionaire George Soros is getting involved in the battle for control of the Colorado state legislature.
    In fact, state records show the New York hedge fund manager is playing in the same five races as another out-of-state billionaire – San Francisco investor-activist Tom Steyer.
    Soros and Steyer are both leading members of the Democracy Alliance, a coalition of left-wing political donors. Called “the left’s secret club” by Politico, the Democracy Alliance has steered hundreds of millions of dollars to liberal causes since 2005.
    This year, according to the Washington Post, the group plans to spend tens of millions of dollars supporting Democrats in state-level races across the country.
    “We can’t have the kind of long-term progressive future we want if we don’t take power in the states,” Democracy Alliance president Gara LaMarch told the Post last year…

    The California billionaire – a huge backer of anti-fossil fuel groups – is looking for “vertical control of the ballot, taking over the state for his environmental agenda,” Ciruli said…
    To be clear, Steyer and Soros have a First Amendment right to say what they want and spend as they wish on politics and matters of public debate. But the involvement of these left-wing billionaires in Colorado elections – and the agenda they want to push through the state legislature – deserves just as much scrutiny as other political players have received.
    ***That hasn’t happened yet, of course. Steyer and Soros continue to fly under the radar. More to the point, their candidates haven’t faced a single question about these out-of-state billionaires and why control of the Colorado state legislature means so much to them…
    http://completecolorado.com/pagetwo/2016/08/02/steyer-soros-colorado-state-legislature/

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    James Murphy

    I was just looking through the list of nominations and winners of the 2016 Hugo Award, and noticed that a book called:
    SJWs Always Lie: Taking Down the Thought Police
    by Vox Day (yes, a nom de plume) was nominated for “best related works” – a category which did not have a winner, as it happens.

    I haven’t read it. I just wondered if anyone else had bothered to read what might well be a great book, or a horrendous waste of time, or something in-between.

    As it happens, the winner for best novel was The Fifth Season by N. K. Jemisin, which in my opinion, goes a small way to show that the Hugo Award voters haven’t completely sold out just yet, when one compares it to the quality of past winners.

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    doubtingdave

    Hi folks , can I ask my Australian friends about your immigration policies , if I wanted to emigrate to Australia I can fall back on my qualifications as an engineer , but also I have a life long history as a musician , a close friend who is a great musician and earns his living from his music has just got married and wants to emigrate to Australia , but because he doesn’t have any civil qualifications , he is having difficulty with that application , he has taught music in local schools and is an expert on gypsy jazz and flamenco guitar and worked as a session artist for many years, is there any way he can emigrate despite not having any so called skilled qualifications , what direction should he take in order to gain citizenship in Australia . Any advice would be welcome

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      Robber

      Your friend can complete an Expression of Interest listing skills. An alternative is to find an employment sponsor in Australia.

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      Lewis P Buckingham

      You could have a chance if you have a company and can invest in Australia.
      If your qualifications are recognised in Australia and on a wanted list you would have good grounds.
      You and your family need to be healthy.
      Australia has had so many refugees come in there is a cloud over the whole area of citizenship and migration.
      Some with 5 year visas may well be sent home as the visa expires.
      There seem to be a lot of English speaking South Africans wanting to come here.
      If an Australian company or a State government will support you then you have a good chance.
      http://www.australia.gov.au/information-and-services/immigration-and-visas/migration-to-australia

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    ScotsmaninUtah

    Europe is dying …

    over regulation and hidden corruption.
    If you spend any small amount of time in Europe it is easy to see..

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      Dennis

      The EU experimental model of one World Government, a socialist dream, is unravelling.

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        ScotsmaninUtah

        Dennis
        I agree totally and many people in Europe feel betrayed and as a result 2017 will result in a new political landscape.

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    el gordo

    North Atlantic OHC down to 700 metres.

    https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/clip_image0082.jpg

    David Archibald has put up a cool post.

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      Rick Will

      This is something that the climate models are able to replicate if the knobs are set appropriately. It comes about due to increase melt water from Greenland shutting down deep ocean convection. This paper discusses it:
      http://www.meteo.psu.edu/holocene/public_html/Mann/articles/articles/RahmstorfEtAl_NatureCC15.pdf
      What the climate models cannot do is to replicate the present cooling AND the shutting down in the 1970s.

      One of the conclusions in the paper”
      ” Rather, this failure suggests that these models either have an AMOC that is too stable with respect to buoyancy forcing42,43 , or are missing an important forcing (and indeed the time history of Greenland meltwater runoff is not included as a forcing in the CMIP5 ensemble).

      I wonder what the missing forcing is because you can guarantee the CO2 forcing is there with bells on. It couldn’t possibly be anything to do with the sun because we know it is far too stable to affect Earth’s climate!

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        el gordo

        From that link:

        ‘There is no sign in our index that a weak AMOC caused the LIA in the Northern Hemisphere; rather the data are consistent with previous findings that the LIA reflects a response to natural volcanic and solar forcing …’

        The post by David Archibald over at WUWT has created a lot of heat, Leif reckons the author is being alarmist.

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    Analitik

    While looking through the reference section of our local library, I saw Al Gore’s “An Incovenient Truth”. I was very tempted to move it into the fiction section.

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    Peter C

    AMEND SECTION 18C!

    Cory Bernadi has a petition to amend section 18C of the racial discrimination act (which is an assult of free speech).

    I commend the petition and encourage you all to have a look and sign it.

    http://www.corybernardi.com/

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    pat

    19 Aug: Bloomberg: SunEdison and Vivint Can’t Agree on Timetable for Merger Suit
    by Tiffany Kary and Brian Eckhouse
    The judge in SunEdison Inc.’s bankruptcy case held off ruling on whether Vivint Solar Inc. can proceed with its $1 billion lawsuit over a failed merger because the two companies can’t agree on a timetable for the litigation.
    U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Stuart Bernstein ended a hearing in Manhattan Thursday without deciding whether to lift the “automatic stay” that shields bankrupt companies like SunEdison from lawsuits…
    The outcome of the dispute could shape SunEdison’s bankruptcy, because Vivint’s claim makes it the company’s largest unsecured creditor. The merger, which collapsed amid a decline in the renewable-energy business starting last year, was supposed to combine the world’s largest clean-energy company with one of the leading U.S. rooftop solar installers…
    Meanwhile, Maryland Heights, Missouri-based SunEdison is in the midst of the largest-ever sell-off of renewable-energy assets.
    Bernstein said Thursday that the company can auction equity interests in utility project companies with an opening bid of $144 million by NRG Renew LLC. The projects include solar assets in Utah, California and Texas…
    The judge also approved a procedure to sell stakes in a 136-megawatt portfolio of commercial and industrial projects being developed in Minnesota…
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-18/sunedison-and-vivint-can-t-agree-on-timetable-for-merger-suit

    21 Aug: Detroit News: Merrill Matthews: The casualty toll of green energy
    Scientific American recently published a story highlighting the problem of bat deaths from wind turbines…
    A Wildlife Society Bulletin study estimated that some 573,000 birds — including 83,000 birds of prey such as eagles and hawks — and 888,000 bats were killed in 2012. But the number of wind turbines has grown substantially since then.
    And it’s not just North America. Scientific American explains, “A research paper published in January of this year found that wind turbines are, by far, the largest cause of mass bat mortality around the world.”
    Birds get more attention and seem to be more appreciated than bats, but bats are crucial to the ecosystem and to humans…
    The great mystery surrounding these bat and bird deaths is the ho-hum response from so many people who regularly lecture us about the importance of the environment.
    Some animal rights and environmental activists are pushing back against the bird and bat holocaust. But they are conflicted because of their support for renewable energy.
    Environmentalists who think that climate change is our most serious threat have themselves become a threat — to wildlife vital to the ecosystem.
    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/2016/08/21/casualty-toll-green-energy/89080934/

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    pat

    following, perhaps unwittingly, exposes some of the inner workings of the Fund. well worth a read. can’t copy/paste:

    17 Aug: HuffPoBlog: Green Climate Fund: Time to grow up
    by Assaad W. Razzouk, CEO of Sindicatum Sustainable Resources
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/assaad-w-razzouk/green-climate-fund-time-t_b_11524218.html

    21 Aug: Norwich Bulletin, Connecticut: Francesca Kefalas: Putnam solar farm project hits cost snag
    Solar City, the company Putnam contracted with in April 2015, delivered a proposal that vastly reduces the town’s savings from the project.
    “We received a document about the size of ‘War and Peace’ and it’s offering about a quarter of what they promised,” Mayor Tony Falzarano said. “We’re not approving Solar City until we look at our options.”…
    http://www.norwichbulletin.com/news/20160821/putnam-solar-farm-project-hits-cost-snag

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    Amber

    It is easy to forecast things you will never be held accountable for . That’s why the five day ones with a lot of help from satellite
    pictures are now fairly good . 50 years out dream on… unless sunspot activity and things like volcanic activity are somehow known .
    CO2 is virtually irrelevant in changing the direction of climate . Even ECO control freaks know that .
    When you see government employees running around with titles like CLIMATE PROTECTION MANAGER you know things are going off the rails .

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    Andrew McRae

    If Jo wants us to talk about ancient humans throwing stones instead of climate shenanigans she must have rocks in her thread.

    ~
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-22/acoss-appeals-for-federal-government-to-keep-carbon-tax-payment/7771458

    The energy supplement was a payment first introduced as compensation for the carbon tax. A coalition of welfare groups including the Australian Council of Social Service, National Welfare Rights Network and the Australian Youth Affairs Coalition have written letters to the leaders of both major parties urging them to retain the supplement.

    In his 2016 budget announcement, Federal Treasurer Scott Morrison said those receiving the compensation would continue to do so but it was “nonsensical” for the Government to provide it to new welfare recipients.

    Everybody involved in this issue is talking nonsense. That’s what happens when you compromise on reality.

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    Radical Rodent

    Have been involved in a discussion on YouTube, and was sent to this site: http://data.nodc.noaa.gov/woa/PUBLICATIONS/grlheat12.pdf Apart from the presumptions and dodgy science used, I looked at the units of the graph: 10^22J.

    Please correct me if I am wrong, but I converted this to Celsius, assuming the total oceanic content to be 1.3 billion cubic kilometres (a figure I have picked up elsewhere, but does not conflict too much with my own estimate), to arrive at 4.05050058823077°C. I took it to such ridiculous levels of decimal points (14) to see what difference 24J would make – none at all, as it happens. Like I said, please correct me if I am wrong, and show me where I made the mistake(s).

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      Radical Rodent August 22, 2016 at 9:05 pm

      http://data.nodc.noaa.gov/woa/PUBLICATIONS/grlheat12.pdf

      “Please correct me if I am wrong, but I converted this to Celsius, assuming the total oceanic content to be 1.3 billion cubic kilometres (a figure I have picked up elsewhere, but does not conflict too much with my own estimate), to arrive at 4.05050058823077°C. I took it to such ridiculous levels of decimal points (14) to see what difference 24J would make – none at all, as it happens. Like I said, please correct me if I am wrong, and show me where I made the mistake(s).”

      RR,
      Your 4°C ±1°C may be about correct,if and only if, the whole ocean increased in temperature by 4°C since 1978, the zero point on that graph; or the equivalent approximately 10^13 Joules of sensible heat for your 1.3 x 10^8 km^3 of ocean. using:
      4j/(g°C) as water sensible heat, 1gm = 1cm^3, and ,1 x10^15 cm^3 =1km^3, that seems highly unlikely. Please recalculate to check my numbers. Going back from 1978, just what does (1/10^12) Joule of sensible heat for that much ocean mean in terms of ocean temperature between 1955 and 1978?
      RR, This was done deliberately and with intent in deceiving both the public and their elected officials. This example is exactly why I claim any possible concept of science being associated with NOAA, academic meteorology and/or atmospheric physics needs quickly stomped into the Earth and paved over, until such can never again escape! The concept must be ‘stommpped’, the folk associated with this farce, the courts can deal with.
      All the best! will-

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        Radical Rodent

        Thank you for replying. Sorry, I seem to have confused the issue for you. The (rounded) 4°C temp is THE (average) oceanic temp, not the rise; from what I can gather from the graph, the rise in heat totalled 24J. Quite how that mere 24J was determined is not obvious. I suspect I am wrong, most probably in misreading the graph, but would like to be shown where.

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          24 what? The vertical scale totals 32 orders of magnitude (Logarithmic). Half that scale are in wee fractions of a Joule. 4°C may be the average sea surface temperature but has no relevance to ocean sensible heat or to any change in such. Any change in sea sensible heat is likely from Earths angular momentum changes induced by gravitational effects of all the other solar system bodies. This was not some inadvertent error by a school child. Deliberate intent to confuse what has been so painfully learned of this physical, for political and financial gain!
          All the best! -will-

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        For 10^13 Joules of energy added to 1.3 x 10^23g of ocean since 1978, that would increase sea temperature by a whole (3/10^11)°C. Da sky is falling!

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      Rick Will

      You have a huge error in your calculations. The volume is 1.3E24 cubic centimetres. Round specific gravity of water to 1 then that is equivalent to 1.3E24 grams. The specific heat of water is 4.2J/g/C. Hence 24E22J will give an average temp rise of 0.04C.

      The heat input is calculated from the ocean temperature rise. The linked data shows a temperature anomaly from -.014 in 1955 to 0.087 in 2016 for 0-2000m:
      http://data.nodc.noaa.gov/woa/DATA_ANALYSIS/3M_HEAT_CONTENT/DATA/basin/3month_mt/T-dC-w0-2000m1-3.dat
      That gives a temperature rise of 0.1C for the top 2000m. The deep ocean has continued to cool over this period giving an average rise of about 0.4C if all ocean water is accounted for. The time constants for heat transfer increase with the ocean depth. With heating from the surface there is no local convection at depth. The convection relies on whole ocean circulation. The deep oceans take hundreds to thousands of years to respond to increase in energy input at the surface.

      The understanding of ocean circulation is limited so climate models do not do very well at forecasting these circulations. The one certainty is that the oceans can store massive amounts of energy and small changes at the surface will take thousands of years to cause appreciable change in the average ocean temperature.

      A significant factor in the ocean circulation is the changes in convection due to salinity changes where land ice is increasing or retreating. The salinity alters the density so can increase or decrease the deep convection. Again climate models do not capture this process particularly well.

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        Rick Will

        Correction – Average rise should be 0.04C not 0.4C as I have above. The whole ocean average is a little under half the top 2000m.

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        Sr Will,
        The whole idea was to expose the deliberate scam! Any change in ocean temperature/sensible heat cannot possibly come from some minute change in radiative insolation reaching the ocean surface do to atmospheric CO2 or any other EMR radiative effect!
        All the best! -will-

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    pat

    Oriel writes: “Many sections of the media have uncritically adopted GetUp!’s rhetoric…”

    22 Aug: Australian: Jennifer Oriel: Dumped files show influence of George Soros on Western politics
    The Australian arm of the Soros network is GetUp!.
    GetUp! was established by ­activists Jeremy Heimans and David Madden with funding from Soros. The Labor-affiliated Construction Forestry Mining Energy Union donated $1.1 million to the group. Bill Shorten and John Hewson are former board members. A major funder listed on its 2014-15 Australian Electoral Commission expenditure return is Avaaz, the US GetUp! ­affiliate that has received copious amounts of funding from Soros networks…
    Like most NGOs, GetUp! claims to be independent from political parties…As Sharri Markson ­revealed in this paper, GetUp! chairwoman Sarah Maddison urged people to vote for the Greens in the past federal election…
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/dumped-files-show-influence-of-george-soros-on-western-politics/news-story/937a225e62420ea3807bd8308b0dad83

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    pat

    another Soros tale, involving member of the Open Society Global Board, chairman of Smartmatic electronic voting comany, & media darling, Mark Malloch Brown:

    Microfinancing can build climate resilience
    The Japan Times-10 Aug. 2016
    by Mark Malloch Brown.

    Businesses must go green or they will go under, Lord Malloch …
    The Independent-4 Jun. 2016
    Speaking ahead of the Global Green Growth Forum (3GF) in Copenhagen, Lord Mark Malloch-Brown, now chairman of the Global Commission…

    Open Society Foundation: Mark Malloch Brown, Global Board Member, Open Society Global Board
    Mark Malloch Brown is a former number two in the United Nations as well as having served in the British cabinet and foreign office. He now sits in the House of Lords and is active both in business and in the nonprofit world. He also remains deeply involved in international affairs.
    He is currently chairman of SGO and its elections division Smartmatic, a leading elections technology company…
    Other positions have included vice‐chairman of George Soros’s investment funds as well as his Open Society Foundations philanthropy, a vice president at the World Bank…
    ***He began his career as a journalist at the Economist…was formerly a visiting distinguished fellow at the Yale Center for the Study of Globalization…
    He is the author of The Unfinished Global Revolution and in 2005 Time Magazine put him on its list of the 100 most influential people in the world. He continues to write, broadcast, and lecture about international issues…

    23 Mar: WND: Utah shenanigans: ‘Ballots handed around like napkins’
    George Soros fingerprints rile voters
    Sen. Ted Cruz walked away from Utah with the state’s 40 delegates, but some voters left disillusioned due to billionaire George Soros’ ties to the process and fishy behavior at caucus sites.
    The battle between Republican front-runner Donald Trump and Cruz in Utah ended with the Texan winning in a landslide. Cruz captured 69.2 percent of the vote compared to Trump’s 14 percent, but the businessman’s supporters suspect foul play.
    A forum on the website Godlike Productions included a conversation between voters who said caucus sites were ripe environments for dishonesty.
    “My head is still spinning,” wrote a user identified as Pirate Monkey. “I’ve never seen turnout like this.”…
    Smartmatic, the firm in charge of running the electronic voting, is tied to Soros…
    Lord Mark Malloch-Brown, chairman of Smartmatic’s board, serves on the board of George Soros’ Open Society Foundation, Breitbart News reported Sunday…
    http://www.wnd.com/2016/03/utah-shenanigans-ballots-handed-around-like-napkins/

    read all the following, incl comments:

    The Political Insider: Massive Voter Fraud – TONIGHT IN Utah’s Republican Primary?!?!
    http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/massive-voter-fraud-tonight-utah-primary/

    btw Deseret News reported re Republican turnout: ” As for Republicans, Utah GOP Chairman James Evans said turnout would exceed 200,000, well over the record 125,000 in 2012.”
    but, of course, they weren’t turning out for Trump!!!

    Utah GOP wants to keep online voting, despite worries
    Deseret News-5 Apr. 2016

    Clinton Eyes Flipping Utah, Director of State Campaigns Says
    Bloomberg-17 Aug. 2016

    Could Utah vote Democrat for president for first time in 5 decades?
    Highly Cited-KUTV 2News-2 Aug. 2016

    That poll showing Clinton leading in Utah? It doesn’t exist.
    Washington Post-2 Aug. 2016

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    pat

    6 Apr: Townhall: John P. Warren: Stealing the 2016 Election Will Be Easy
    It’s not about gaining delegates and managing conventions. It’s about electronic voting. You’d think Republicans would run from high-risk electronic voting systems, but Utah’s Republican establishment thought differently. In its recent primary, GOP voters could vote via computer, tablets, and smartphones, all because of a UK company called Smartmatic—this according to a Breitbart release by Aaron Klein on March 20, 2016. Cool, but dangerous.
    Never mind that the chairman of Smartmatic is Gordon Malloch-Brown, BFF to George Soros and board member on Soros’s Open Society Foundation, and other Soros-financed organizations. Never mind Smartmatic and all others claim their security is fraud-proof. That’s like saying they can accurately count every leaf on a large maple tree, and come November, tell us which are red and which are not…
    According to Ballotpedia.org, fourteen states still do Direct Recording Electronic (DRE) System voting with and without a paper trail (emphasis added).Among them are Florida, Indiana, Kentucky, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Texas, and Virginia—at least four being key battleground states. Interestingly, it was Virginia that stress-tested its voting systems and found one company so vulnerable to third party hacking it was de-certified from operating within the state (see its report from April 15, 2015)…
    Democrats believe online voting will enhance (their) voter turnout. “Backers insist votes can be made secure and encrypted in ways that are almost impossible to hack. But the same was said of electronic voting machines. That was before Bowen conducted her ‘top to bottom’ review of those gadgets and essentially ordered almost all of them scrapped or resold to other sates and countries because of the ease with which votes cast on them could be ‘flipped.’” (emphasis added.) Gee, which states?…
    In a recent Bloomberg Businessweek article, Jordan Robertson et al. detail Andres Sepulveda’s claims to have spent eight years stealing elections in Latin America—in places like Colombia, Honduras, Venezuela, and in July 2012, perhaps, the presidency of Mexico…
    In 2015, anonymous sources claimed Sepulveda’s alleged sponsor, a Miami political consultant named Rendon, had gone to work for the Trump campaign, but all parties disavow any such connection. Rendon dislikes Trump, it was said, but has been in talks with another leading U.S. presidential campaign.
    Wanna guess who?
    http://townhall.com/columnists/johnpwarren/2016/04/06/stealing-the-2016-election-will-be-easy-n2144380

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      Pleze gets the very bestus Beer and pretzels here in OZARK, ARKANSAS!.. Kick back and enjoy the funzies US elections!.. Prees bring your significant other for even more funzies. If you need; we hab many young Asian ladies for your enjoyment!
      All the best! -will-

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    el gordo

    I’m not xenophobic but our American cousins practically own us.

    ‘Among foreign investors in Australia, the US has the biggest accumulated stock of investment at $860 billion last year or 28 per cent of the total at the end of 2014-15, followed by Britain, Belgium, Japan and Singapore.

    ‘But for new investments, China is the biggest source, with approved investments in Australia last year of $46 billion, accounting for a quarter of the total for the year, according to the Foreign Investment Review Board.’

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      You AU guys are pretty damn good! What is wrong with investing in pretty damn good?

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        el gordo

        The Chinese also see Australia as prime real estate going unused and they construct ugly buildings.

        There is a debate that the communist dictatorship is alien to our best interests and that state run organisations shouldn’t tender. Its too late, they have their fingers in every pie.

        No offense meant to the leader of the free world, but if The Donald wants us to pay more for security then the Alliance will be in tatters. Not much chance of that happening any time soon.

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          “No offense meant to the leader of the free world, but if The Donald wants us to pay more for security then the Alliance will be in tatters. Not much chance of that happening any time soon.”

          I am not sure of what ‘The Donald’ meant about NATO, no one can be sure, but I thought he was referring to the new eastern EU members of NATO, who cannot even try to defend themselves. The US did not buy into the idea of One World self appointed fascist eco-loons in Brussels.
          Also do not but any of those broken F-35s.
          If need be, buy several of the cool, much less expensive, SU-35s ‘The Putin’ is pedaling. Just having a few, will scare da sh*t out of any trying to mess with you AU folk.
          All the best! -will-

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    OriginalSteve

    As predicted, the whole #censusfail situation will likely be the *ahem* excuse to push for online idenetity strengthening

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/01/the_abs_has_burned_trust_and_thats_a_problem/

    You can also see in this story that Aust Post is already putting its hand up….

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/22/australia_postblockchain_for_voting_proposal/

    “In politics, nothing happens by accident, and if it does happen, you can bet it was planned that way” – Franlin D Roosevelt

    Who me, paranoid?

    Nope…I just know how they think…..

    Which is why I could never trust them…..

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    pat

    posting this here as a followup to previous Utah comments:

    23 Aug: The Hill: Mark Hensch: Poll: Trump leads Clinton by 15 in Utah
    Republican Donald Trump has a 15-point advantage over Democrat Hillary Clint in Utah, 39 percent to 24 percent, as the two fight for the White House, according to a poll released Tuesday…
    Pollsters found Trump’s lead grows to 20 points, 53 percent to 33 percent, when he faces Clinton one-on-one…
    PPP conducted its latest sampling of 1,018 likely voters in Utah via telephone interviews Aug. 19–21. It has a 3.1 percentage point margin of error.
    Also Tuesday, senior Clinton policy adviser Jake Sullivan opened a campaign office in Salt Lake City…
    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/292341-poll-trump-leads-clinton-by-15-in-utah

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