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Greg Hunt orders CSIRO to hire back scientists to study “settled” stuff

 Cut the blob and the blob reforms

Thanks to Prof Peter Ridd for the nice one-liner.

Back in February, the new head of CSIRO, Larry Marshall, agreed that  the “debate was over” and sacked 350 pointless climate researchers who were studying stuff that was already settled. Marshall’s crime was to hire people to solve the climate problem rather than just keep the cheer squad. But the eco-carers were outraged. Seems that a cheer squad is important.

What does this mean? Not much for climate science or skeptics, its only fifteen jobs and $37 million over 10 years. It’s just another line of press releases advertising The Blob. More government waste.

Mr Hunt has announced an extra 15 jobs focusing on climate science, as well as additional support, costing $3.7 million a year. He said it would increase the number of climate researchers from 100 to 115 after the latest round of job cuts is taken into account.

These researchers are being paid to find a crisis, so they will only find the truth if it happens to coincide with a crisis. Imagine the outcry if Hunt had hired 15 full time skeptical scientists for ten years? Imagine what a difference that would make.

What are they afraid of?As usual actual numbers are rubbery. How many were sacked to start with? Some say 350. Some say 275. Some say only half of the job cuts have actually happened.

The CSIRO Staff Association’s Dr Sam Popovski welcomed the announcement… He said more than half of approximately 300 job cuts announced earlier this year have been carried out, including 61 jobs in the oceans and atmosphere division.

Hype is everywhere

15 jobs is not a major U Turn:

New Science Minister Greg Hunt has ordered a major U-turn in the direction of the CSIRO, reviving climate research as a bedrock function just months after the national science agency slashed climate staff and programs.

But the big cuts were not so big either:

When the CSIRO cuts were revealed, it was initially feared that the Oceans and Atmosphere division, which held the bulk of climate scientists, would lose most of its 140 staff.

However, this figure was whittled down to about 35 climate-science jobs across two key research programs. It is understood some voluntary redundancies have already been accepted.

CSIRO is about to become a bigger blob:

He said the CSIRO’s budget would increase by about $100 million over the next three years, and overall staffing levels will increase by more 200 “as opposed to where they were expected to be this year”.

The shame is that we have a science minister who doesn’t know what science is. He’s a “Consensus” Minister.

h/t David Archibald, Willie, Chris, Alistair, Peter Ridd.

 

 

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263 comments to Greg Hunt orders CSIRO to hire back scientists to study “settled” stuff

  • #
    Allen Ford

    Cut the blob and the blob reforms

    Ah yes, but ultimately, the Great Yellow Blob in the sky will win over the Green Blob.

    210

  • #
    TdeF

    You have to wonder why Hunt is doing this? Just believing in Green Global Warming is not enough, why ‘research’ it? What will an extra 15 people do that 350 people could not? Why is there no official explanation?

    This is a purely political decision to please someone. A negotiating chip. Perhaps a demand again of the Greens from the Senate, Malcolm talking to his friends again? Really, where else is the upside for Hunt and Turnbull in just 15 additional jobs to research into something which it is generally agreed is just not happening? What happened to the ‘pause’. Whatever the CSIRO says they are doing, they claim to be providing real world solutions to urgent real world problems. There are no problems and there are certainly no solutions.

    390

    • #
      Craig Thomas

      er….in fact it is “generally agreed” that it *is* happening.
      And as for the “pause”, it was clearly a defective meme that has now been consigned to the dustbin of history. Were you thinking of trying to fish it out again?

      574

      • #
      • #

        Those of the left love down the memory hole.
        Shades of 1984, history as a study of past events
        is not popular with them, inconvenient evidence,
        only historicist laws, history as Marxist destiny
        will fit the bill.

        160

        • #
          Craig Thomas

          “Inconvenient evidence”…such as the current record warm temperatures, for example?

          https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201606#temp

          “Warmer to much-warmer-than-average conditions dominated across much of the globe’s surface, resulting in the highest temperature departure for June since global temperature records began in 1880. This was also the 14th consecutive month the monthly global temperature record has been broken—the longest such streak in NOAA’s 137 years of record keeping.”

          So…global warming is actually happening…right?

          661

          • #
          • #
            James Bradley

            Sorry Craig, current warm temperatures are only averages of the anomalies – if you have a look at the BOM Max and Min daily temp records from 1939 to 2015 you will see that the max daily temps are static, but the min daily temps gradually increase.

            With this sort of statistical manipulation you would have us believe the average boiling point of pure water at sea level increases in summer because heat was applied when the the water was at 25°C room temperature as opposed to 10°C room temperature in winter.

            524

            • #
              Albert

              You are right, ”anomalies” is how they con people who don’t seek the raw data and tampering with past records (always down) makes the graphs show a rise.
              When I studied Meteorology, a heat wave was minimum of 4 consecutive days over 100F, now the new formula is about 2 days over 90F, no wonder heatwaves are on the rise, the formula was adjusted to suit the alarmists’ perspective.
              Marble Bar in WA still holds the world record for a heat wave, almost 6 months

              60

            • #
              craig thomas

              “max daily temps are static, but the min daily temps gradually increase”

              Hmmm, I’m guessing James was hoping nobody was going to be sceptical enough to actually go to the BoM website and check, because apparently what he just asserted is something he has just made up:

              http://www.bom.gov.au/tmp/cc/tmindecile10.aus.0112.5483.png

              http://www.bom.gov.au/tmp/cc/tmaxdecile10.aus.0112.10265.png

              But what about the USA, I hear you ask – well, NOAA has a handy spot where you can track the number of records being set:
              https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cdo-web/datatools/records
              Over the past 365 days,
              45 High Max records have been set
              80 High Min records have been set
              03 Low Max records have been set
              04 Low Min records have been set.

              Aside the absolutely clear evidence here of very, very unusual warming, we can see that High Min records are being set at almost twice the rate as High Max records.
              I wonder if anybody here has an idea what that could possibly mean?

              17

              • #
                AndyG55

                It is a well know FACT that NOAA have continuously “ADJUSTED” temperature records..

                and those adjustments lead to a MONOTONICALLY increase.

                and are the ONLY warming in the last 40 or so years discounting NATURAL El Nino and ocean effects.

                1. No warming in the UAH satellite record from 1980 to 1998 El Nino

                2. No warming between the end of that El Nino in 2001 and the start of the current El Nino at the beginning of 2015.

                3. No warming in the southern polar region for the whole 38 years of the satellite record.

                4. No warming in the southern ex-tropicals for 20 years.

                5. No warming in Australia for 20 years, cooling since 2002

                6. No warming in Japan surface data for the last 20 years, No warming from 1950-1990.. zero trend for 40 years

                7. No warming in the USA since 2005 when a non-corrupted system was installed, until the beginning of the current El Nino.

                8. UAH Global Land shows no warming from 1979 1997, the no warming from 2001 – 2015

                9. Iceland essentially the same temperature as in the late 1930s as now, maybe slightly lower

                10. Southern Sea temperatures not warming from 1982 2005, then cooling

                11. Even UAH NoPol shows no warming this century until the large spike in January 2016.

                That is DESPITE a large climb in CO2 levels over those periods.

                There IS NO CO2 WARMING effect.

                The ONLY real warming has come from ElNino and ocean circulation effects.

                21

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            Craig Thomas:
            I sincerely hope you aren’t one of the Climate Scientists mentioned. Variations of hundredths of a degree within an error band of half a degree are meaningless. Had the early alarms about the temperature climbing 2-3℃ by now happened then we would know that warming was real.
            As for NOAA’s ‘record keeping’ I cannot say anything without being snipped. Specially selected points of doubtful suitability and then being ‘adjusted’ doesn’t say much for their reality. That the northern hemisphere warmed quite a deal from some time in the 1700′s until around 1938 is almost certain. Evidence that the southern hemisphere has warmed in the last 100 years is slim (unless you use ‘adjusted figures’).
            There is a good deal of self delusion involved in climatologist ranks. The claim that they could rule out the sun as a cause of changes is enough to expose them as third raters. It has happened before with Phlogiston, Piltdown Man, N-rays etc. Eventually this craze will die out, but not before doing enormous economic damage.

            594

            • #
              craig thomas

              “Variations of hundredths of a degree within an error band of half a degree are meaningless.”
              Says who?
              “There is a good deal of self delusion involved in climatologist ranks. ”
              ROTFL. Right back at you, bud.

              09

              • #
                AndyG55

                You on a trough payment again Craig ?

                Why anyone would pay for your claptrap is beyond me..

                Its NONSENSE in every word, deluded and anti-science.

                The surface temperatures are “DERIVED” from an ever changing, always adjusted, sparse, highly UHI affected, bunch of mosty sub-standard, surface station. And then the manipulate the data to make sure it follows the CAGW meme.

                The final result is a total and absolute FABRICATION of meaningless GARBAGE, which you swallow,. because its the only thing you have to hang your fake ideology on.

                Your whole false religion is based on a SCAM, and you are too indoctrinated to even see it.

                31

              • #
                delcon2

                Hey Craig,why did the IPCC change the “Temp”from 6 degrees in 2000,to 2 degrees at the “Paris Love In”in December?Perhaps because they realized that the “Temp”wasn’t going to get to 6 degrees?

                00

          • #
            Rereke Whakaaro

            It is interesting that the press release (for it ain’t a scientific statement), talks about “Warmer to much-warmer-than-average conditions”.

            Yes, about half of the temperatures could be expected to be higher than the mean, with the other half being lower. That is what an average means. Of course, of those that are higher than the mean, half could arbitrarily be described as “warmer”, with the other half being described as “much warmer”. But without the actual numbers, it is just a matter of semantics.

            Craig also plays a trick in saying, “… the 14th consecutive month the monthly global temperature record has been broken”, but he does not say, by how much. One, one-hundredth of a degree kelvin overall? Or perhaps one, one-hundredth of a degree per month, giving a total of fourteen one-hundredths of a degree for the 14 months in total?

            Since Craig only talks in terms of variances, and not in absolute terms, his comment is useless, and meaningless, from a scientific perspective.

            It is not even good PR spin. His whole comment is amateurish. We deserve better than that. Isn’t there a grown-up we could joust with?

            444

            • #
              craig thomas

              “Yes, about half of the temperatures could be expected to be higher than the mean, with the other half being lower. That is what an average means. ”

              errr…..gosh, where to start with this. “Warmer” means higher than average.
              I hope you’re with me sofar, Rereke…
              If a year is “warmer”, that means more temperatures are above the long-term mean, and fewer of them are below it.
              Thus, it is “warmer”.

              “…but he does not say, by how much”

              Hmmm, strangely, the temperatures weren’t 1/100th of a degree “warmer” or “cooler” in equal proportion.
              They are all on the “warmer” side of the previous record, every single year. There is no variation around a mean here, but a clear departure from it. “How much” is a blatant red herring, when the issue is that we are still dealing with people who deny that warming is actually occurring.

              16

          • #

            I certainly hope global warming is occurring, in view of what happened last few times global cooling occurred within the historical period (2200BC, Migration Period, LIA etc). However I could not prove it from a global temp record which involves lots of old min/max readings sent completely haywire by cloud. (Sorry about using the C-word, rudest word you can use these days in front of a climate numbers man.)

            213

            • #
              craig thomas

              Absolutely correct. Prior to 1989, there was no such thing as cloud, rendering all measurements made since then completely invalid.

              06

              • #
                AndyG55

                Certainly in need of MASSIVE adjustment… according to NOAA.

                The only way to CREATE a warming trend.

                20

          • #
            James Murphy

            Craig Thomas – Thanks once again for entertaining us with evidence of your devout adherence to a belief system, as well as your flagrant disregard for evidence, and facts.

            I find it hilarious that anti-scientific and ignorant mouthpieces such as yourself seem to be the ones in strident denial of natural variability by claiming that all observable changes in a complex system are solely due to human factors.

            While you are here, maybe you, or one of your brethren, can tell me just what this “global temperature” should be doing now, and what it should be doing in 100 years from now – if the industrial revolution had never occurred?

            386

            • #
              James Murphy

              Dear Red Thumb Brigade,
              Thank you for the red thumbs. Every single one of them is a measure of your inability to use the written word to construct and convey even the most basic rebuttal, it highlights your cowardice, and your jaundiced view of the world.

              I look forward to your future patronage.

              Kind regards,
              James Murphy

              225

              • #
                craig thomas

                Oh, you poor thing – you got 4 red thumbs. Let me give you another…

                Just before I call the Waaaahmabulance for you, please take time to note that the comment you were replying to (mine) was given 57 red thumbs.

                …which would make your side about 15x more cowardly than whoever it is that gave you 4 red thumbs.

                27

              • #
                AndyG55

                Nappy change time for Craig.

                20

            • #
              craig thomas

              I just quoted the data, and the relevant experts who collect and analyse it.

              If you want to look for anti-scientific and ignorant mouthpieces, you should look much closer to home.

              Maybe you should question why it is that your devout adherence to your belief system necessitates that you disregard facts and data, and indulge in personal abuse and denigration of the relevant professionals.

              19

              • #
                AndyG55

                “ignorant mouthpieces, you should look much closer to home.”

                Your moniker is close enough.

                20

          • #
            Raven

            . . . NOAA’s 137 years of record keeping.

            If NOAA were actually “keeping” records, that would be fine. So you’ll need to be specific about which particular “kept” records you’re talking about.

            Tom Karl from NOAA has a lot to answer for but hey, that isn’t going to happen.
            Enjoy your retirement Tom.

            133

            • #
              craig thomas

              So what is this one, exactly? Another conspiracy? Or more ridiculous accusations of fraud?

              04

          • #
            AndyG55

            Greenland has just shattered its MINIMUM July temperature by 3 degrees.

            Its COLD !!!!

            http://realclimatescience.com/2016/08/greenland-shatters-its-record-for-july-cold/

            142

            • #
              Angry

              Global Warming Expedition Stuck in Arctic Sea Because of Too Much Ice

              http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/07/21/global-warming-expedition-stuck-in-arctic-sea-because-of-too-much-ice/

              Guess NATURE didn’t get the memo from the global warming SCAMMERS that the ice is supposed to melt.

              82

              • #
                Gee Aye

                I suppose you know that sea ice is most dangerous and unpredictable during the melt? Ask the titanic

                49

              • #

                LOL! Thank you Angry for that link. Another ship of fools. They expected to be able to sail all over and “prove” global warming, alas nature is not cooperating.

                Wonderful story, I wonder if any of them actually think about that.

                Gee Aye, read the article! To quote a tiny bit: “The website Real Climate Science notes that the Polar melt season is half over, but temperatures have not climbed high enough to sponsor a large melt off of ice.”

                They are being foiled by LOWER temperatures than expected – and ice, not melting ice.

                102

              • #
                Gee Aye

                Err yeah well. Half over. When do you time that. Maybe half begun. Anyway here is your perspective

                http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

                So yes, July was cool and the melt paused in many areas but the link and data don’t back up angry’s hopeful statements that scammers are being subverted by contrary evidence.

                Don’t forget to put a hyphen in your name just on case!

                34

          • #
            TedM

            Ahh!!! The return of the troll.

            52

          • #
            Angry

            “Craig Thomas”, YOU are breaking my BS Meter……

            52

          • #
            Andrew

            Strange that the satellites show no such records – in fact, June and July are absolutely nowhere near 1998′s el Nino levels. It was warmer last century.

            61

        • #

          I so would love to paddle a canoe into Ephesus or Ostia, where the ancients parked whole fleets. God knows how they lowered the shore.

          250

          • #
            KinkyKeith

            We were holidaying in Samos and had intended to visit Ephesus, I was keen to see the harbour.

            Then terrorists bombed the mainland and the trip was cancelled.

            Still, as evidence of the sea level fall over the last 2,000 years we have a really fantastic rock shelf here in Newcastle that was leveled by the higher seas that made Ephesus a harbour all those years ago.

            KK

            110

            • #
              TedM

              Still reading Craig?????????

              91

              • #
                Angry

                Craig can actually READ???????
                Wonders will never cease.

                52

              • #
                craig thomas

                No, my eyes tend to glaze over when I see ignorant rubbish about sea level.

                Sea level has been *rising* over the last 2000 years, and it’s a trivially easy bit of knowledge to acquire, which reinforces my view that KinkyKeith is incapable of basing his “thoughts” on anything resembling facts.

                05

              • #
                AndyG55

                “my eyes tend to glaze over when I see ignorant rubbish about sea level”

                You must be permanently glazed listening to the sea level hysteria from the alarmiati, then.

                That would explain your idiotic, anti-fact posts.

                10

            • #

              Sea levels have both risen and fallen over the last 2000 years. Which is why to get to the spot where the Claudian invasion of Britain came ashore you now have quite a trudge in front of you. The more recent upward trend, a dribble, dates back to the late 1700s. In geologically stable Australia you can observe some rise…if you squint.

              Behold your terror:
              http://donaitkin.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/image011.jpg

              40

      • #
        AndyG55

        Poor boy.. It will be funny when the PLATEAU returns in a few months once the effect of the TRANSIENT El Nino subsides..

        …and then starts getting longer and longer.. as the temperature drops.

        I really hope to see some of the antics of the alarminati, but I suspect they will find crevasses to slither back in to.

        264

        • #
          craig thomas

          So…you believe that every El Nino is about the same temperature, and every gap between El Ninos is also about the same temperature?

          Would it suprise you to hear that you are completely and utterly wrong?

          05

          • #
            AndyG55

            I would be surprised if you ever said anything coherent.

            El Ninos are a balancing mechanism. We have just had a two major after a series of very strong solar cycles.

            Those solar cycles are no longer with us.

            Please try to actually understand at least something about how the sun provides the Earth energy, and how the Earth tries to regulate it.

            Otherwise you will continue to look like a base level fool.

            Go now, and get a basic education, and please come back in a couple of years as the REAL global temperatures continue to ease off in the next few years.

            None of the fabricated NOAA junk data.

            10

            • #
              Craigthomas

              What solar cycles? Solar output is slightly low.
              Maybe you’re talking about sunspot cycles ?
              If so, you might be surprised to learn that high sunspot counts are supposed to create cooling.
              Or maybe you have NFI at all?

              01

      • #
        ianl8888

        … been consigned to the dustbin of history

        Along with the satellite data that inconveniently demonstrated no significant change, eh ?

        And ENSO is NOT caused by the magic gas.

        293

      • #
        sophocles

        Craig Thomas said:

        And as for the “pause”, it was clearly a defective meme that has now been consigned to the dustbin of history. Were you thinking of trying to fish it out again?

        No one will need to “fish it out again” as you so quaintly put it. It will be back again. Soon.

        While you’re waiting for it to return, you could do yourself a big favour to not appear so ignorant and ill-informed by doing some personal research into the El Nino and La Nina weather phenomena. You’re making the all too common mistake of the ignorant and uneducated by mistaking the effects of a transient weather cycle for a climate change. It’s not.
        Just because Gavin at NASA did the same to pump up and add to the Big Scare Story is no excuse.

        243

        • #
          KinkyKeith

          Craig’s suit looks as though it was retrieved from the dustbin of history.

          A bit of plagiarism there.

          40

        • #
          craig thomas

          So tell us this, Sophocles, seeing as El Nino is just a cycle – aka “natural variation” – can you think of any reason why the most recent El Nino was the warmest one ever?
          Can you think of any reason why the 1998 El Nino was warmer than any that preceded it?

          Is it the case that you are confused by this natural variation and you have failed to pickup the fact that there are additional cycles, and also, a very clear warming trend present in the temperature record?

          04

      • #
        Glen Michel

        As I wrote to the member.” I can only conclude that you’re an idiot”.I extend that to you .

        111

      • #
        Mari C

        “er….in fact it is “generally agreed” that it *is* happening”

        Which “it?” Climate change? That’s a no-brainer, climate changes quite a bit and for varying periods of time. The most static climates were those of the Ice Ages.

        CO2 as a force? Only by those who refuse to acknowledge that CO2 was pulled out of a hat to begin with. And that man is pushing it along? Only by those who don’t get that one large volcanic eruption puts more CO2 out than all our efforts – and we have several eruptions a year. Narrow-minded horse-blinkered basement dwellers who like to fly thousands of miles to pat each other on their backs agree – else they’d have no budget to fly anywhere.

        I certainly don’t agree.

        101

      • #
        Angry

        Definitely “IT” is happening………
        Summer, Autumn,Winter, Spring.
        Happens every year.

        IT’S CALLED THE SEASONS DUMBO!

        42

      • #
        Andrew

        In what way was an 18 year 10 month pause in the satellite record, across multiple el Nino events, that is demonstrable in the historical data, and considered almost statistically impossible by the models, a “defective meme”? And how did the pause cease to exist?

        70

      • #
        Ernest Bush

        You know, I was ready to write the obvious rebuttal to everything you said, but decided I don’t have it in me to waste the effort. Life is too short. I’ll just say the 150 year record shows that we have lived in golden times climate wise. It has been up to 9F hotter in the last 10,500 years and extremely colder. There is no particular reason to turn our wealth and freedom over to the likes of you, who are as impotent as we are to do anything about the climate, which is always changing. So buzz off you socialist/fascist/communist and take your alarmist agenda with you.

        70

        • #
          Ernest Bush

          The above post was directed @Craig Thomas. I seem to be way down the line of people who want to get in comments about his watermelon-type post.

          30

    • #
      TdeF

      Then why the CSIRO? Why at all?

      It’s not as if we do not have a huge climate research organization called incidentally the Australian Bureau of Meteorology with 1663 people and a budget of $280Million? If they are not doing Climate Research and reporting, what are they doing?

      “The Bureau of Meteorology operates under the authority of the Meteorology Act 1955 and the Water Act 2007 which provide the legal basis for its activities, while its operation is continually assessed in accordance with the national need for climatic records, water information, scientific understanding of Australian weather and climate and effective service provision to the Australian community. The Bureau of Meteorology must also fulfill Australia’s international obligations under the Convention of the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) and related international meteorological treaties and agreements.”

      Why is the CSIRO researching the weather?

      Then you need to have additional people just to coordinate the activities of two groups doing fundamentally the same job, whatever that is? More jobs to discuss doing nothing at all in a combined way.

      This is utter nonsense. Why not just increase BOM funding if you are serious? The IPCC after all was a joint effort by the World Meteorological Association, not the CSIRO and NASA and all the other groups. This whole exercise needs explanation.

      300

      • #
        Craig Thomas

        Because CSIRO runs places like Cape Grim:
        http://www.csiro.au/greenhouse-gases/

        CSIRO also ensures we are informed about ocean warming and acidification as well as sea level rise:
        http://www.csiro.au/en/Research/Environment/Oceans-and-coasts/Oceans-climate

        It’s lucky scientists are collecting this data and analysing it – if they weren’t, then dodgy people would get away with making up all sorts of stories about these issues.

        552

        • #
          Analitik

          Ocean acidification is a theoretical situation that is not remotely possible without poisonous atmospheric CO2 levels. The “dangers” that have been demonstrated have used artificial tanks where CO2 is pumped at almost SodaStream levels.

          The oceans are slightly alkaline and there has been no measurable change in pH

          503

          • #
            TdeF

            The oceans are also heavily buffered, buffered solutions. It is not possible. Also consider that 98% of all CO2 is already in the ocean. So add the last 2%. What difference does it make? 2%.

            Rainwater, fresh water, tank water are all slightly acid, partly due to concrete. However you have to think of the huge amounts of calcium carbonate from the white cliffs of Dover to the entire substructure of places like Central America and even the Great Pyramids of Giza. Whole cities are built from limestone and the caves under Paris, Rheims, Odessa stretch from thousands of kilometers. These are all made from Calcium Carbonate. Seashells. All Life on earth is made from Carbon, even the shells and the limestone and the marble. Ocean acidification is sophistry, not chemistry. No ocean is acid or ever will be.

            473

            • #
              Glen Michel

              It won’t matter one bit.Such people have no sense of enquiry. Just obey;don’t question.

              120

            • #
              Albert

              You said it in a nutshell, ”All Life on earth is made from Carbon”
              Acidification is scare mongering for the uneducated and those too lazy to do simple research

              30

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            Actually I believe they had to use mineral acids (HCl, H2SO4) in some cases. Since the oceans won’t get acidic from CO2 until well past 700,000 ppm. the talk of ocean acidification is propaganda swallowed by the gullible and ignorant. People like CT above read the term in the SMH or SkepticalScience and hear it on the ABC, and then they all repeat it in their inner city cafes and think it is real. If you read the original paper of the minute changes off Hawaii you will realise that it was assumed to be happening and they extrapolated back 250 years to get a ‘pre-industrial figure” then used that as “evidence” of acidification happening. If any Laboratory Assistant had brought stuff like that to me when I was working I would not have reacted very kindly. Indeed I would have, in the old term, watched their future progress with interest.

            There is the problem of the various Permian marine extinctions, often cited as examples, and there are some fancy speculations about the causes (look up the arsenic ore bed one if you want a laugh). I note that was the time of the Siberian Traps eruption, just as the Cretaceous ended with the Deccan Traps eruption, so my thought is that sulphurous gases were involved, as they are much stronger acids formers than CO2.

            141

            • #
              Andrew

              So basically there needs to be ~2000x the current level of atmospheric CO2 before the oceans pH falls below that of pure H2O, and at that point
              - corals will still be perfectly happy, as they can deal with 100x the acidity down to about pH 5 in water near geographically active areas
              - we will be almost unable to breathe

              How is it alarmists are not too humiliated to show their faces after getting conned by the “ocean acidification” baloney?

              60

          • #
            sophocles

            Craig Thomas said:

            It’s lucky scientists are collecting this data and analysing it – if they weren’t, then dodgy people would get away with making up all sorts of stories about these issues.

            From out of the mouths of babes … :-)

            Craig, You have every right to make a fool of yourself. You’re doing well, so far.

            Dodgy people do get away with making up all sorts of those stories.
            Some of them claim to be Climate Scientists.
            Ocean Acidification is just one such story created and promulgated by just such dodgy people.
            It’s past time you got your head around the real facts of the ocean chemistry. (See chapter 6 in the linked document. It has a whole section dealing with the Ocean Acidification myth.)

            You obviously don’t know that CO2 when dissolved in the sea, creates two ions:
            one H3O+ which is a weak acid … and
            one HCO3- which is a strong alkali.
            … which is why the ocean is alkaline, and always will be.
            That’s just the start. Yes, there’s more to it. Do yourself a favour and do your own research, educate yourself, before you make a complete fool of yourself by parroting some of those dodgy stories put around by dodgy people. To change the ocean’s pH would require mankind to produce over 50 times the CO2 in the ocean. That would take more fossil fuels than the planet has ever possessed. 98.8% of all the CO2 in existence is in the ocean. The pifflingly tiny amount produced from our burning fossil fuels is not going to make any difference at all, ever..

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            • #
              sophocles

              Corrected URL for the first link above in post above.

              [repaired. Also the numbering seems to be messed up.] ED

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            • #
              AndyG55

              “do your own research, educate yourself, ”

              Hey you are talking to Craig..

              All he has to do is “believe” !!!

              No research or education required.

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              • #
                sophocles

                … gotta try :-)
                You never can tell when even a cretinous coprocephalic can make good—it has happened.

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            • #
              sophocles

              Darn. I hate typing on a laptop keyboard. It’s too small for my fingers which are too big for it’s keys. One touch on a wrong key and it’s submitted before finished and checked. Maybe the cup of tea spilt over it some years ago is still having an effect.
              :-) It’s an excuse … :-)

              This is Yet Another correction to:2.2.1.1.2:
              To change the ocean’s pH would require mankind to produce over 50 times the CO2 in the ocean. That would take more fossil fuels than the planet has ever possessed. 98.8% of all the CO2 in existence is in the ocean.
              is wrong.

              It should be, or was going to be:

              “To change the ocean’s pH with CO2 won’t work. The ocean contains 98.8% of the present free CO2, about 50 times that in the atmosphere. Burning more fossil fuels won’t do it. The oceans regulate their pH by precipitating any extra CO2 as Calcium Carbonate, which is insoluble. The huge quantities of chalks and limestones around the world were created this way. The pH is regulated remarkably closely.”

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        • #
          el gordo

          Craig let’s stop beating around the bush, do you think this is because of global warming or a natural oscillation?

          ‘May to July 2016 was Australia’s third-wettest May–July on record.’

          BoM

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          • #
            el gordo

            Can’t wait for Craig, the wetness in Australia at the moment is natural, but this consortium still mentioned ‘climate change’ once because it was originally written for the Conversation. Otherwise not a bad effort.

            http://www.smh.com.au/comment/the-indian-ocean-is-the-cause-of-south-australias-wet-winter-20160727-gqeqxz.html

            So if its not global warming then it might be the start of regional cooling: The Subtropical Ridge is not intensifying as Timbal claims and the East Coast Lows are too numerous, which shouldn’t be happening under AGW.

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            Rereke Whakaaro

            el gordo,

            A precis of your comment would have surficed:

            “Craig let’s stop beating around the bush, do you think?”

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          • #
            craig thomas

            Well, El Gordo, “Australia” is a big place, comprising a variety of clamite zones.

            As anybody who has studied the issue of rainfall in Australia is aware, different parts of the country have entirely different rainfall trends.

            For example, the NW of our continent has seen a 50% increase in the amount of rainfall over the past 50 years.

            Parts of SE QLD, Eastern NSW, and Victoria, on the other hand, have seen a 40% *decrease* in rainfall.

            I’m not sure what conclusion you think you can draw from the fact that a country-wide rainfall record wasn’t set recently, perhaps you could explain what you think it means?

            04

        • #
          James Bradley

          Hasn’t stopped you.

          90

        • #
          Tony Porter

          2 words are all I’m willing to give you and consider yourself lucky for that:
          You fool.

          50

          • #
            craig thomas

            Hilarious.
            I wonder if you turn to face a mirror, if your severe case of psychological projection will cause a rift in the space-time continuum by bouncing back and forth ad infinitum between the fool and his mirror-image?

            01

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          The chemical composition of people, mostly consists of four elements: Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen, and Oxygen.

          If it were not for Carbon, we would all float away.

          60

    • #
      aussieguy

      You have to wonder why Hunt is doing this? Just believing in Green Global Warming is not enough, why ‘research’ it? What will an extra 15 people do that 350 people could not? Why is there no official explanation?

      This is a purely political decision to please someone. A negotiating chip. Perhaps a demand again of the Greens from the Senate, Malcolm talking to his friends again? Really, where else is the upside for Hunt and Turnbull in just 15 additional jobs to research into something which it is generally agreed is just not happening? What happened to the ‘pause’. Whatever the CSIRO says they are doing, they claim to be providing real world solutions to urgent real world problems. There are no problems and there are certainly no solutions.

      Agreed.

      Look at this logically…

      (1) Turnbull and Hunt are pro Global Warming.

      (2) Observe the Senate numbers…
      => Turnbull Govt needs 9 seats from the minor parties in order to get anything to pass.

      (3) Deal with one party than having to deal with 6 minor parties…
      => Notice how it would be easier for Turnbull to deal with the Greens and their 9 seats, than having to talk to One Nation, Darren Hinch, Bob Day, David Leyonhjelm, Xenophon, or Lambie.

      (4) Its a known fact that One Nation, Bob Day, and Leyonhjelm are Warming skeptics (that’s 6 senate seats!). The Greens and ALP align with Turnbull on Global Warming.
      => You don’t need an Engineering Degree to safely presume the Turnbull Govt has done some sort of deal with the Greens.


      As for those people that are employed in the career path of “Climate Science” (especially at the CSIRO), but don’t actually do science?

      That’s simple, they are activists using their scientific credentials to get in the door and pose like some sort of scientific authority. If they do nonsensical “studies” (propaganda material) like trying to find a relationship between a Warming skeptic and which side of politics they are on; you know they are activists.

      A modern Left-Regressive activist always infects everything with their political view. Anyone who disagrees with them is treated like an enemy (hence the reason for the name calling). They will NEVER openly debate in fear of being revealed.

      A real scientist actually tries to understand what is going on, explores/experiments, etc. They will debate you on the merits of what they are studying/exploring.


      To see it from another angle…

      With a scientist, the taxpayer gets a return-on-investment.
      With an activist, the taxpayer gets another political parasite.

      …And in the 21st century, it pays to have a career in activism!
      (If one actually looks at the activist life-style, you can see why they behave the way they do. Big money involved. You don’t have to do anything but talk-fests. Corporations want that “social license” and they’ll pay you big bucks for it!)

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      • #
        el gordo

        ‘… the Turnbull Govt has done some sort of deal with the Greens.’

        Not yet, the conservative Liberals will be horrified, but I’m convinced De Natale is open for business. This quote from before the election in July, when the man said he would not sup with the devil

        ‘Senator Di Natale ruled out any deal with the Turnbull Government, saying it had an “appalling record” on climate change and the treatment of asylum seekers.

        “It is inconceivable we could sit down and form any sort of co-operative gov­ernment with the Coalition,” he said.

        Herald Sun

        70

      • #
        TdeF

        Yes, this is a sign of good faith from Turnbull’s Liberals to the Greens. Similar to Turnbull’s announcement that a Very Very Fast Train was a possibility and that he, a genius, could make it profitable. Fantasy and Fallacy. Turnbull’s Greens. It did not translate into electoral sense though, but it could mean passage of a few of Turnbull’s favorite laws. Quid pro quo. We give you CSIRO jobs and you pass our laws. Horse trading with the Australian public as the victim.

        70

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘Fantasy and Fallacy.’

          With a trans continental fast train network he will have the Greens (pseudo Marxists) and Nats (new agrarian socialists) in his pocket, Turnbull plays hard ball.

          Interest rates around the western world are sliding into uncharted territory, if capitalism and democracy are to be saved, somebody better do something.

          Mass immigration and associated infrastructure spending would keep our economy buoyant and of course the deal is that the consortium wants land to build cities for the next wave of immigrants.

          50

    • #
      James

      There is a solution, and it involves a tax! Personally I do not believe that the weather can be controlled with a tax.

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    • #
      Katio1505

      How about this as a World First government initiative:

      a. Break down the ‘climate science’ issue into its critical components

      eg. 1. Average temperature, its definition and measurement over recent and historical times

      2. Factors that govern earth surface temperature

      3. Human influence on surface temperatures

      b. Invite applications for participation in a scientific panel consisting of (4 or 5?) scientists adhering to the current AGW theory, and an equal number of scientists sceptical of it, chaired by a respected scientist recognised as independent.

      c. Commission this panel to identify those aspects of the critical components where the science is not generally disputed, and those aspects that are in fact disputed. A report to be issued in a timely manner (6-12 months?).

      d. Widely disseminate this report (including a readily understandable summary) that allows public judgement on whether ‘the science’ upon which substantial budget allocations are made, is robust.

      20

  • #
    el gordo

    The 15 new CSIRO appointments will be going to Hobart’s climate centre, this from the ABC in April. Malcolm Roberts is correct, its a UN conspiracy.

    ‘Dr Marshall said the new climate change centre in Hobart would focus on climate modelling and projections, and the city was guaranteed to have research capability for 10 years.

    ‘He said the decision to establish the Hobart centre came after ongoing consultation with staff and stakeholders.

    ‘The centre would focus on climate modelling and projections for Australia, and would draw on international research expertise.’

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  • #
    Dennis

    Meanwhile back in Treasury and Finance the bureaucrats fiddle with the budget repairs needed to overcome the disastrous Union Labor 2013/14 Budget consisting of various budgeted for items that no provision was made to fund, the resulting under-estimation of the budget deficit for that financial year and other “black holes” in a minefield of problems handed to the Abbott led Government.

    More debt required to fund Labor’s budget commitments, including provision to pay the Gonski education grants to state governments.

    And to overcome Labor and Other Senate opposition to budget repair measures including proposed savings amounting to over $30 billion.

    My point being that this government continues to squander our borrowed monies and declining tax revenues on natural Earth Cycles based on the man-made global warming con job.

    And all but ignores the slow economy, public sector debt and other important to the nation issues.

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    • #

      Electors voted Abbott into office to cut
      costly carbon programs based on models that
      didn’t match observations. Turnbull’s coup
      brought us a leader who fails Liberal Party
      values of a balanced budget,small government
      and free speech, – a wolf in sheep’s clothing,
      despite the Armani tailoring.

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  • #
    Tony Porter

    Hmmm… I wonder about all the job-cuts, including mine at a coal-fired power station that their scientific research propaganda and hysterical spin-doctoring resulted in, which Julia Gillard asked them to propagate. All to justify why we do need a carbon tax, after LYING, pre-election that there would be no such tax introduced?
    I wished they’d all lost their worthless, fake jobs and remained unemployed for the rest of their dishonest lives, but no… They need more – the propaganda is starting to wear a bit thin… This is a worry!
    Come on, pseudo-scientists, there’s work to do – ramp up the hysteria! Come back now to spin more of your classic, terrifying tales of CAGW doom and use their taxes to pay for it all!

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  • #
    Craig Thomas

    What should disappoint all of us here is that they aren’t hiring any of the right people.
    Hey – do you suppose they will ask Murry Salby to join them?
    Has he written down his ground-breaking CO2-related ideas yet?

    How about David Archibald? Surely they will be very interested in his research which predicted that the current Solar Cycle would cause global temperatures to drop dramatically by 2.2 degrees?
    And on the same grounds David Evans should be offered a CSIRO sinecure from which to further develop his global cooling predictions – his work predicted the cooling would commence last year, but with further funding maybe he can republish using a future year in order to stay current?

    646

    • #
      Analitik

      You sorry troll. All those scientists you have mentioned would be far preferable to the group think, climate-change-must-be-real-so-we-must-findinvent-proof rabble that form the climate science division of the CSIRO.

      Unfortunately, they are far too detached in their approach to adopt the necessary group think mentality that will be a pre-requisite for the upcoming appointments.

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    • #
      Frank

      Pity Malcom Roberts is too busy distancing himself from the Sovereign Citizens.
      His expertise outranks any climate scientist

      62

      • #
        bullocky

        ‘His expertise outranks any climate scientist’
        (Joelle Gergis shifts uncomfortably in her seat … )

        50

        • #
          el gordo

          If at first you don’t succeed, this is her second attempt at a SH hockey stick.

          ‘Warming observed in the Australasian region between 1985-2014 is unusual in the context of the past 1000 years, a landmark study has reported.

          ‘The study, led by University of Melbourne researchers and published on Monday, July 11, in the Journal of Climate, is the most comprehensive, long-term temperature reconstruction for Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific Islands region.

          ‘It shows that anthropogenic greenhouse gases are required to produce the rate and magnitude of post-1950 warming observed in the Australasian region, strongly pointing towards human influence in rising temperatures.’

          Melbourne Uni Newsroom

          10

    • #
      ianl8888

      … his work predicted the cooling would commence last year

      You’ve fabricated an outright, deliberate lie here.

      And again, ENSO is NOT caused by the magic gas.

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    • #
      AndyG55

      No Craig, they will hire third-rate, wet-behind the ears, gullible enviro non-scientists.

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    • #
      John in Oz

      Flim Flammery still has a job and he has NEVER been correct in any of his prognostications.

      At least David Evans and Murray Salby are able to perform research in a discipline they studied.

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      • #
        craig thomas

        I’m not aware that Flannery has ever published anything that was pretending to be climate “research”.

        Also, I’m not aware of any Flannery “prognostications” that have been incorrect.

        Perhaps you’ve been insufficiently sceptical, and you’ve read some nonsense on a kook-blog somewhere and you’ve failed to llok it up and check whether Flannery ever actually said what people are saying he said?

        13

        • #
          AndyG55

          “I’m not aware that Flannery has ever published anything that was pretending to be climate “research”.”

          Then why does he get so much press?

          I see that you agree that taking anything he has to say on “climate” is a totally and absolute JOKE.

          Yet that is what people on the far-left do.

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          • #
            Craigthomas

            He’s a science communicator.
            Are saying that anything a science communicator says about climate science is a joke”?

            12

        • #
          Tony Porter

          LOL!
          Flim-flam-FRAUD Flannery, even makes YOU appear intelligent Craig. The billions of taxpayer’s dollars he convinced the green indoctrinated government to WASTE on supposedly mitigating his LOONY, doom & gloom predictions, has so far been nothing short of colossal FRAUD and had anyone else perpetrated such massive fraud, would see them locked up for the rest of their lives…

          It’s truly mind-boggling how when it comes to anything related to the climate change or CAGW HOAX, any behaviour, no matter how bizarre, ridiculous, or even criminal: is not only acceptable, it’s even respected.
          Even more amazing is how people like YOU Craig and worse: our elected members of parliament, are still listening to that Flannery lunatic and BELIEVE in his psychotic delusions…
          Between him and his clueless, dumbed-down followers in government, they will see to it that Australia and its population will soon be poorer than its third-world neighbours…
          All for believing in a blatant scam and a HOAX that you’re all frankly, too stupid to open your eyes and see… To see the huge elephant in the room.

          00

          • #
            Tony Porter

            Ooops… Sorry forgot – he H… word mentioned twice and the F…. word 3 times. Just delete the comment, which you’ll probably do anyway.

            00

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Craig Thomas is master of the ad hominem. He is famous for it.

      No real scientific argument is required by Craig, he just goe straight for the man, in a full frontal attack, purely for the crime of not agreeing with the government funded, concensus, group-think.

      My daughter, when she was small, had a doll which laughed and said, “that is silly”, when you poked it in the stomach. For some reason, Craig reminds me of that doll.

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      • #
        Yonniestone

        I like Craig, he reminds me of a doll that inflates to 40psi.

        And no you don’t poke it in the stomach.

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      • #
        craig thomas

        Yes, in topsy-turvy world, “Flim Flannery” isn’t ad-hominem, but pointing to a bit of self-published amateur research that has turned out to be wrong (surprise surprise) is ad-hominem.

        Did you guys get *any* schooling at all?

        13

    • #

      What is a Craig Thomas? Seems like a bot!

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    • #
      AndyG55

      “What should disappoint all of us… blah blah…”

      Is that you bother posting here. !!

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    • #
      sophocles

      I can see you don’t read. Dr Murry Salby has “written down his ground-breaking CO2-related ideas” in his text-book Fundamentals of Atmospheric Physics, Volume 61 (International Geophysics) 1st Edition. For you, Craig, it is available in Hardcover from Amazon.com for the paltry sum of USD79.19. plus postage. There is one copy left and it’s on special, marked down from USD101.00. Be quick, at that price it won’t be there long. But something tells me its mathematics will be right over your head.

      How about David Archibald? … I see you don’t read. He’s already said, publicly, he was wrong. However, Solar Cycle 24 is not over yet. It still has 4 years to run and he could still be more right than wrong. Won’t you have egg all over your face if that should happen?

      As for Dr David Evans, you either haven’t read his work, which is in line with all your other failures to read, or you are deliberately distorting what he did write. That, Craig makes you a “dodgy person” creating and distributing a dodgy story.

      If my memory serves me correctly, Dr. Evans said that 2015 (last year) was the earliest any cooling could possibly start, but it was unlikely. It was more likely to start in 2017. Last year (2015) was a strong El Nino. It’s dying away and a La Nina (a cooling event) has started. His prediction looks good. Don’t buy a lottery ticket yet, Craig.

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        craig thomas

        “If my memory serves me correctly, Dr. Evans said that 2015 (last year) was the earliest any cooling could possibly start, but it was unlikely. It was more likely to start in 2017.”

        OK, so his prediction was wrong for last year, and wrong again for this year.

        And do you *really* need to wwait until next year before you manage to develop enough scepticism to realise that Evans’ tortured statistics using irrelevant fourier transforms was simply an exercise in curve fitting with zero relevance to real-world data?

        24

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘…temperatures to drop dramatically by 2.2 degrees?’

      From memory that was New Hampshire, not globally.

      42

      • #
        el gordo

        “If the month of minimum for the Solar Cycle 23 to 24 transition is July 2009, this would make Solar Cycle 23 over thirteen years long. This in turn would mean that it would be 3.2 years longer than Solar Cycle 22, and imply that the annual average temperature of Hanover, New Hampshire will be 2.2° C cooler during Solar Cycle 24 than it had been on average over Solar Cycle 23.”

        David Archibald 2009

        ———

        We stand and fall on our predictions, is Archibald heading for a massive fail?

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      • #
        craig thomas

        Ah, so David Archibald thinks a Cone of Cold (TM) is going to descend on New Hampshire, cooling it by 2.2 degrees, while the rest of the world continues breaking heat records every month?

        Sound kosher….

        23

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘… his work predicted the cooling would commence last year …’

      This is a couple of years old and is running a little late, probably due to the strong El Nino, but from here on out we have no excuse if temperatures don’t fall.

      https://tallbloke.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/finnish2.jpg

      Craig I’m prepared to become a lukewarmer if temperatures fail to cool over the next few years.

      31

    • #
      PeterPetrum

      And on the same grounds David Evans should be offered a CSIRO sinecure from which to further develop his global cooling predictions – his work predicted the cooling would commence last year, but with further funding maybe he can republish using a future year in order to stay current?”

      That is a deliberate lie. David Evans predicted that cooling would be evident from 2017. Looks like he will be spot on.

      CT should apologise or shut up – preferably both.

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      • #
        el gordo

        It has to fall well below the line and stay there for a couple of years.

        http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/UAH_LT_1979_thru_July_2016_v6.jpg

        31

      • #
        craig thomas

        “CT should apologise or shut up – preferably both.”

        Well, I *do* feel a bit guilty about how I laugh at Evans and anybody who believed his ridiculous maths.

        So maybe I should apologise. How about we wait another 12 months? And if there’s still no cooling, how about Evans and the rest of his fanclub apologise to me for wasting my time with this?

        23

        • #
          Egor TheOne

          CAGW = BS

          Always has and always will!

          Get over it and take up a new belief instead of massaging a dead one.

          To argue that our tiny contribution of co2 has/is/or will drive our climate catastrophically is idiotic at best and fraudulent at worst.

          Which of these categories do you occupy?

          There is still hope….if you renounce your true b’lverism and join the ranks of the skeptical and sane!

          21

          • #
            Craigthomas

            Increasing CO2 from 280ppm to 400ppm isn’t tiny.

            12

            • #
              Egor TheOne

              Yes, 400 ppm is about 600 ppm short of what it should be.

              We need more co2, not less, and especially not to cripple our economy based on a negligent effect, which is paramount to medievalism (leftism)!

              Also Right is Right and anything left of Right is Wrong.

              Only the ratbag left (greens) would refer to others as radical or hard right, as if those true b’lver ecoloons are normal!

              21

            • #
              Craigthomas

              The entire time our species has been on this planet, CO2 hasn’t been anywhere near 400ppm. Last time CO2 was this high, sea levels were at least 10m higher than they are now.
              Have you considered the economic impact of 30% of the population trying to live below sea level?
              Your optimism is wishful thinking bordering on stark delusion

              12

            • #
              AndyG55

              280ppm, getting down towards baseline plant existence. Dangerously low.

              400ppm .. a small, but HIGHLY BENEFICIAL rise, a big plus for ALL LIFE ON EARTH. !!

              If it was possible we should aim to push the atmospheric CO2 level up past 700 or 800ppm.

              Then watch the whole planet FLOURISH !!

              00

  • #
    A C, of Adelaide

    From your previous thread …
    Wasn’t Hunt an Abbott appointee?
    I still maintain (inspite of the ad hominem attacks) that Abbott was Turnbull-lite and initially sparked the defcon movement. Adelaide may be seen as a backwater by some – but my circle in Adelaide were supporting Cori Bernardi attending Recliam rallies and signing up for the ALA before Turnbull turned up.

    Its really business as usual – and always was. While Abbott axed the Carbon tax he did not back off from any of the greenhouse targets or RET schemes. Australia is a follower nation not a leader nation and will have to hit the same iceberg as the Titanic before it can change direction. There will be no backdown in Australia until the German Energiewende crashes and burns. Not from Labor, not from the Greens and not from the Liberals.

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    • #
      TdeF

      To remove the RET, Human Rights Commission and thousands of other Rudd/Gillard/Rudd absurdities takes both houses of parliament. They passed thousands of laws. Abbott could not do that. You have to separate what is in the power of the PM or any minister and what requires a change in law.

      Abbott axed the Carbon taxes and mining taxes with enormous difficulty and the help of PUP. It was a huge battle and if Palmer did not have a personal Carbon tax bill of $6Million, you wonder whether it would happened. Soon thereafter PUP collapsed and no law could be changed without a majority in the senate. 70% of laws were rejected by the Senate. He was able to stop the boats as the minister had control, Morrison. Lambie refused to even read the laws before her and came up with the cunning plan on $200Kpa of doing absolutely nothing.

      As for Direct Action, Abbott is a politician and this was a simple way to spend little money, green the country, do something positive and again fill actual legal obligations in CO2 reduction. This was not a betrayal but a cunning and infuriating way to keep the peace and obey the laws of the country passed by the previous two parliaments who had ‘unfettered power’. No windmills, no subsidies, just trees.

      Yes Hunt, Bishop, Turnbull, Morrison were all Abbott appointees. All competent members of parliament and senior ministers and department heads. That did not stop the plotting and scheming though but you cannot pass laws about that. The old adage was to keep your friends close and your enemies closer. If it was not for the ‘bed wetters’, the new MPs, Abbott would not have been removed.

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      No, Abbott was balancing the factions. It was a mistake putting a gullible in that area, but there are so many of them in politics without a clue on science. Frydenberg is the latest.

      It is becoming increasingly obvious that both major parties are filling up with drones who believe that it is best for their career to spend money on anything, that this boosts the economy and this is possible because there is an endless pot of money that can be extracted from the bogans that live outside Canberra. Hence Hunt throwing money away. The Labor party has lost all those who worked outside of politics and is the poorer for it, but then there was always a strong inclination to think money could solve any problem, hence their appeal to money hungry types. The Liberals have gone down the same path a little more slowly but are now, I think, at the end of their useful life. Another year of Turnbull and they will be dead in the water, if not sinking.

      What party will replace them? I don’t know, but certainly there is no shortage of contenders. Despite her success this election I can’t see Pauline as a P.M. ALA made a lot of noise but failed completely. Perhaps a new party forming, with or without the Nationals. I hope that it comes before the current lot (and the Greens) reduce Australia to a second Greece. Otherwise we will be relying on wind turbines to stop us freezing.

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      • #
        PeterPetrum

        “ALA made a lot of noise but failed completely.”

        I can’t agree with that. The ALA were only formed as a party late last year. They had absolutely no advertising as no television channel or newspaper would accept their ads because of their ant-Muslim stance. Pauline Hanson got plenty of free publicity because of who she is, despite the same stance.

        Despite this, the ALA got more than 100,000 first preference votes, purely from word-of-mouth publicity. They have not gone away, but are actively gearing up for the oncoming state elections. I am going to a meeting in Springwood, in the Blue Mountains, tomorrow to meet the candidate for the ALA who helped get rid of Louise Markus, a Turnbull supporter.

        I firmly believe that the ALA is indicative of an upsurge in conservativism that will be changing the face of politics in this country over the next five years.

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        • #
          Egor TheOne

          ALA are on the fence when it comes to the climate scam….not good enough.

          Anybody sitting on the fence are appeasers looking for votes.

          Hanson and ‘rise up Aus’ are not on the fence and not afraid to take on the true b’lvers including the ABC ratbags.

          I didn’t vote for her party this time, but she will get my vote next time instead of a useless and dying coalition of big bank lackeys and climate racketeering advocates.

          They’re stealing off of us based on a fraud, and deserve jail time, not being voted for.

          What a choice, vote for Big Bank Lackeys (LNP), Big Union Lackeys (ALP), or for raving lunatics (the Greens)….Hanson and a few others are the only voices of reason.

          20

          • #
            delcon2

            Isn’t it funny.Pauline was once thought of as a “Rat-bag”but is now showing the “Elites”who keep on trying to brand her a”Racist Bigot”and the more they try,the more people realize that she speaks the truth.

            00

  • #
    pat

    we’re biased against “estabished science”!

    4 Aug: WaPo: Chris Mooney: Researchers may have finally found an antidote to biased thinking about science
    Even when it comes to the most objective source of information there is — science — people can’t be objective.
    Rather, there is overwhelming evidence that we are “biased information processors” who engage in “motivated reasoning” to try to bend facts about the world to comport with what we want to believe. And research has shown that even how people think about science is not immune to this — with a classic example being Sen. James Inhofe (R-Okla.), pictured above, bringing a snowball into Congress during the 2015 winter to challenge climate change evidence…
    Indeed, it has been often demonstrated that Democrats and Republicans (or, liberals and conservatives), as they become increasingly science-literate and educated, tend to be become more polarized over whether global warming is even a real thing or worth worrying about, with Democrats embracing ***established science ever more strongly and Republicans more doggedly rejecting it. This is, to make a long story short, probably because smart and educated people are better at arguing and reinforcing their own point of view.
    But now, one of the researchers who has duly documented this very polarization over science — Yale’s Dan Kahan — reports that he may have found a cure: simple science curiosity…
    “The data we’ve collected furnish a strong basis for viewing science curiosity as an important individual difference in cognitive style that interacts in a distinctive way with political information processing,” notes the new paper (LINK) presenting experimental evidence to this end, which Kahan published with colleagues from Yale, the University of Pennsylvania and Tangled Bank Studios. The study is slated to be published in Advances in Political Psychology…
    ***FIRST SENTENCE IN FIRST COMMENT: Miner49er: Please define “established science”.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/08/03/researchers-may-have-finally-found-an-antidote-to-biased-thinking-about-science/?utm_term=.edfa88e39176

    30

    • #

      “Science curiosity” was measured by a tendency to click on internet articles on scientific topics.

      A social scientist wrote about science curiosity and you won’t believe what happened next!

      10

  • #
    Analitik

    Still lots of whinging about “lost skills” at the ABC with particular focus on John Church

    CSIRO’s renewed climate change focus will not reverse damage done by job cuts: scientists

    On the ABC news last night, they interviewed him and showed multiple scenes of his cleaning out his office
    What’s the bet he’ll be back.

    70

    • #

      Hmm!

      John Church!

      He’s now 65. He’s worked for the CSIRO for 37 years.

      Imagine the yummy Government Superannuation he’d be on, now that he’s eligible to take it.

      He’d probably be on almost 100% of his retirement wage.

      No real need for him to work at all for the rest of his life.

      Grumble grumble grumble!

      Tony.

      153

      • #
        Analitik

        He’s a “true believer” so it’s his mission to “spread the gospel”

        If they offer him a role, he’ll be back.

        80

      • #
        TdeF

        Typically he will have retired at 55 years. They all do. Take their indexed superannuation which accumulated at 14%. Then they come back as consultants, so it is a very profitable retirement home. You should grumble more. This is all coming out of your taxes while they attend Global Warming Sea Change Climate conferences in nice places at your expense. The payola never stops and the best bit is that they never ever have to achieve anything! It is a failuretocracy.

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        • #
          craig thomas

          Gosh, all that effort, all that research and all those publications, just to earn a few hundred thousand dollars.

          Why, if he’s in it just for the money, didn’t he just get into property development or mining where he could have earnt millions?

          02

  • #
    pat

    BBC smears.
    there’s nothing to gain by Roberts agreeing to an interview:

    4 Aug: BBC: Australia senator Malcolm Roberts calls climate change a UN conspiracy
    One of Australia’s new senators has said climate change is a global conspiracy created by bankers seeking to establish a worldwide government…
    His previous writing indicates that he believes a shadowy cabal of bankers is controlling world affairs…
    The BBC has asked Mr Roberts for an interview and submitted questions to him by email, but has not received a reply…READ ON
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-36972449

    80

    • #

      “The BBC has asked Mr Roberts for an interview and submitted questions to him by email, but has not received a reply…READ ON”

      To do this properly with the BBC or ABC he needs is own independt recording crew, with director!
      Joanne did that, why not Malcolm, he is articulate enough, but policital editing? Which of us will pick up the tab?

      110

    • #
      handjive

      Malcolm Roberts was on ABC Lateline last night.

      The interview (I use that term loosely) is NOT available at the website, despite a claim at the end of the show that all interviews are available at website.

      The interviewer, Emma Alberici, doesn’t allow Roberts to answer one question she asks, interrupting or cutting him off. On Every Question!

      She claims calls of 97% consensus is ‘empirical evidence’.

      Possibly one of the most pathetic, unprofessional, shrill, Doomsday Global Warming useful idiot self promotions seen since the last one.

      No wonder the ABC won’t show it.

      131

      • #
        el gordo

        Its a disgrace, but not unexpected.

        40

      • #
        Angry

        Good bloke “Malcolm Roberts”.
        We need more like him!

        Climate Sceptic Malcolm Roberts warns that a carbon tax will start the day before the election.

        https://theclimatescepticsparty.blogspot.com.au/2016/06/climate-sceptic-malcolm-roberts-warns.html

        Ben Fordham Speaks To One Nation Senator Malcolm Roberts

        http://www.2gb.com/article/ben-fordham-speaks-one-nation-senator-malcolm-roberts

        41

      • #
        scaper...

        Oh dear. Here it is. Commences just after the nineteen and a half minute mark.

        20

      • #
        PeterPetrum

        The interview can be found on ABC iView.

        20

        • #
          PeterPetrum

          I have just listened to it – absolutely disgusting! She would ask a question then immediately tell him his answer is not what “real” climate scientists – all 97% of them – told her. She clearly has no idea what “empirical evidence” means. And then to finish off she brought up his historic association with the coal industry. It was amazingly bad journalism. Quite disgusting.

          62

          • #
            el gordo

            Okay, that will do.

            Aunty’s closet pseudo Marxists will go out of there way to humiliate and stifle Roberts. Doing a straw poll among associated green leftoids the message has been received and understood, Malcolm Roberts is being denigrated.

            52

            • #

              I watched it as it happened, the interview that is. Before he even came on, I commented to my good lady wife that this was going to be a hit job, if there ever was one.

              I thought he went reasonably well, knowing as he must have that this was going to be a hit job of an interview.

              Notice especially that when Emma has on her lefties, they get to say whatever they want, yet as soon as Roberts went off, she immediately interrupted him and spoke over the top of him, even though he tried to continue with what he was saying.

              And last thing, she just couldn’t help herself, could she.

              Climate change, climate change, climate change, climate change ….. punctuation!!!!!

              I kept waiting for the closing line that we are losing the satellite!

              It’s just all so d@mned predictable.

              Tony.

              61

    • #
      craig thomas

      “there’s nothing to gain by Roberts agreeing to an interview:”

      Ain’t *that* the truth. Imagine exposing the Australian public to his nutty ideas? No way he’d gain a thing from that.

      05

      • #
        AndyG55

        I sense a great deal of FEAR in you about the way things are starting to go.

        I guess you can see that your baseless religion is soon to coming crashing down.

        10

  • #
    David Maddison

    I thought that the only thing that was truly settled, at least by real scientists, was that there was no anthropogenic global warming.

    92

    • #
      Angry

      Actually if what the global warming SCAMMERS say is correct that “the science is settled” then can they please explaing what more there is to research & investigate…..

      51

  • #
    Graeme No.3

    I thought my language was moderate. Is that why I am in moderation. And I get the same problem with The Australian, they don’t like comments with facts included.

    60

  • #
    pat

    4 Aug: PennState Daily Collegian: Emma Kauffman: NextGen Climate Pennsylvania encourages Penn State students to vote in 2016 election
    PHOTO: NextGen Climate Pennsylvania hosted a protest to stop Donald Trump…blah blah (A DOZEN PROTESTERS)
    It seems as though around every corner lurks yet another group of young adults ready to combat the ongoing struggles of political apathy plaguing current millennials.
    Many students are unaware of what the seemingly endless groups of people are trying to achieve. Most don’t know that the people asking students if they are registered to vote are actually employees working for a company called NextGen Climate Pennsylvania. According to Aleigha Cavalier, a Communications Director with NextGen Climate, the goal of their organization is to “educate students and getting students to commit to vote.”
    Focused on how climate change is a crucial issue in this year’s election, ***Jared DeLoof, Youth Vote Director for NextGen Climate Pennsylvania in State College said, “this election is crucial” and the goal of NextGen Climate is “empowering young people to make a change in their community.”…
    DeLoof was passionate about the idea of the current generation trying to make an impact by pledging to vote for candidates that will further the ideals held by NextGen Climate…
    http://www.collegian.psu.edu/news/campus/article_deea9524-5aa3-11e6-a2ca-03933002c21b.html

    ***LinkedIn: Jared DeLoof, Political Organization Professional, Santa Cruz, California
    Previous: Obama for America, Pennsylvania Democratic Coordinated Campaign, Centre County Democrats

    reminder:

    NextGen Climate – About Us
    NextGen Climate is a San Francisco-based environmental advocacy organization. Founded by businessperson and philanthropist Tom Steyer in 2013…NextGen Climate Action is a 501(c)(4) organization. NextGen Climate Action Committee is a political action committee.

    from page 11, details Steyer’s investments:

    PDF: 15 pages: July 2016: Energy & Environment Legal Institute Report: Buying the Democrat Party Lock, Stock and Barrel
    During this 2016 election cycle, “crony capitalism” has become a major issue, mostly from the left and even against the left side of the political spectrum…
    This E&E Legal Report exposes the most affluent crony capitalist and how he is using his money to buy off the Democrat Party. That person is Tom Steyer, the single largest campaign contributor for either party…
    An examination of Steyer’s giving documents an evolving approach that creates the loudest amount of echo per dollar and the largest support for the capitalist’s investments.
    If you have made a major investment in renewable energy, you reap the greatest advantage by eliminating the non-renewable energy competitors. This is what Tom Steyer has attempted to do in the U.S. We should note, however, that his opposition to coal-based energy ends at the U.S. border. He remains a major investor in coal for other nations. But those nations cannot afford renewables, so his strategy is to make the U.S. a coal-free country, the country where his renewables investments reside.
    Steyer’s involvement in politics as a means of advertising solar energy spans well over a decade…
    It also appears the 2016 Democratic National Convention adopted Steyer’s stance on climate change, as many of Steyer’s goals, unprecedented at previous Democratic Party Conventions, are parroted, almost verbatim, in the platform…
    After studying his strong financial ties to renewable energy, it is likely that Steyer’s vast giving to the Democratic Party is not about investing in candidates, or even for the good of the Party itself. Instead, it appears that Steyer is using the Democrats to push laws favorable to the advancement of the renewable energy industry, an industry in which he is heavily invested. It’s not about ‘saving the world from man-made climate change.’ It’s about him. That is the crony capitalists’ model and we expect others to replicate those elements that Mr. Steyer finds actually work.
    http://eelegal.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Steyer-Report-7-21-2016.pdf

    50

  • #
    Axelatoz

    It is rather funny that this Govt in defence of the original redundancies claimed that the CSIRO was independent of Govt influence and it sets its own priorities. Amazing what a difference an election makes with the same characters (Turnbulls lapdogs) now ordering CSIRO to re-employ 15 climate scientists. So much for CSIROs independence.
    Perhaps some of the $37mil could be allocated to a proper independent audit of the “homogenisation” process which converts long term cooling trends into rampant warming trends.

    110

  • #
    pat

    27 Jul: Breitbart: Marita Noon: Hillary’s energy policies enrich Wall Street cronies
    For the past four years, I’ve collaborated with citizen activist/researcher Christine Lakatos (she’s been at it for six years) on what we’ve called: President Obama’s green-energy crony-corruption scandal. In her blog, the Green Corruption Files, she posts her exhaustive research. I, then, use her research to draft an overview that is appropriate for the casual reader.
    More recently, our efforts have morphed to include the Democrats’ presidential nominee, as Lakatos found the same people are her “wealthy cronies,” too.
    In Lakatos’ July 19 Green Corruption File, she states: “While there are numerous ways you can ‘buy access to the Clintons,’ I’m only going to connect the dots to the Green Gangsters, which we’ve already established are rich political pals of President Obama, as well as other high-ranking Democrats and their allies, who were awarded hundreds of billions of ‘green’ taxpayer cash.”…
    Lakatos points out: “Clinton’s ‘ambitious renewable energy plans’ move far beyond Obama’s green mission that has been rife with crony capitalism, corporate welfare, and corruption.”…
    Three Wall Street names of my limited-word-count focus are Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, and Bank of America. Each is a top-contributing Clinton campaign supporter and a Clinton Foundation donor. They have benefited from the hundreds of billions in taxpayers dollars given out for green energy projects through the Obama Administration. All three have expectations that Clinton will continue the green programs put in place by the Obama administration…
    In short, we, the taxpayers, are subsidizing the well-connected millionaires and billionaires—and Hillary Clinton at the center of all of it. Meanwhile, she admonishes the average American to combat climate change by driving less and reducing our personal use of electricity…READ ALL
    http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/07/27/hillarys-energy-policies-enrich-wall-street-cronies/

    subscription required – can’t find the report:

    4 Aug: CarbonPulse: German energy consumption up 1.6% in H1 2016
    Primary energy consumption in Germany rose by 1.6% year-on-year in the first six months of 2016, with higher natural gas and oil use accounting for most of the rise, a report has shown…

    20

  • #
    pat

    comment #15 is in moderation.

    4 Aug: Financial Times: Shawn Donnan: World Bank draws fire with changes to lending rules
    The World Bank is pushing through the biggest changes in decades to the social and environmental rules that cover its lending, drawing fire from activists who accuse it of betraying vulnerable populations in the world’s poorest countries…
    Also incorporated are bans on discrimination against people on any basis, requirements for borrowers to estimate the impact of projects on climate change and a nod to human rights in an introductory “vision statement”.
    The biggest change, however, is that the rules are becoming more flexible, giving more power to borrower countries…
    They allow for the increased use of local environmental and other regulations as benchmarks for projects…
    The bank last year, for example, cancelled a $265m road project in Uganda after activists documented repeated cases of contractors sexually abusing children in the area surrounding the project.
    “The reason that we have this rules-based system is … the carnage and wreckage across the world [that has been left] as a result of World Bank projects,” said Jeff Hall, executive director of the Bank Information Centre, a Washington-based lobby group…
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7b697b2a-5a60-11e6-9f70-badea1b336d4.html

    1 Aug: World Bank: Paula Caballero: One year on, the SDGs provide reason for hope
    With the adoption of a universal development agenda and growing commitments to fight climate change from all corners, 2015 will be remembered as a high water mark for international cooperation. Almost a year later, when the news is dominated by violence and nationalism, it’s tempting to give in to pessimism about global trends. But I find reason to hope when I see the implementation of the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) gaining traction…
    We are much better equipped to deal with the challenges of the new century – whether it be migration, climate change, groundwater depletion, violence or malnutrition – than if we had simply rolled over the limited set of goals for developing countries minted by the United Nations (UN) at the turn of the millennium.
    For starters, the SDGs are universal…
    The SDGs consider the whole planet as a public good which needs to be administered in a strategic and concerted way, with long term vision…
    A relentless transformation is underway…
    http://blogs.worldbank.org/voices/one-year-sdgs-provide-reason-hope

    10

    • #
      diogenese2

      Old as I am I still retain the ability to be astonished by further advances in practise of ineptitude;

      “The reason that we have this rules-based system is … the carnage and wreckage across the world [that has been left] as a result of World Bank projects,” said Jeff Hall, executive director of the Bank Information Centre, a Washington-based lobby group…

      Probably he is still struggling with Public relations 101 !

      20

  • #
    Antoine D'Arche

    what’s in it for Greg Hunt? Seriously. I suspect a cushy million dollar a year job in the climate lobby once he ends his worthless time in the Australian Parliament. Free use of a private jet, Swiss ski chalet, and more, perhaps?

    70

  • #
    pat

    5 Aug: Guido Fawkes: Ukip EGM imminent
    Allies of Nigel Farage and Steven Woolfe believe they have the numbers to call an Extraordinary General Meeting and attempt to abolish UKIP’s NEC. They need 25% of UKIP branches to vote for an EGM for one to be called. Since Woolfe was the favourite among members before he was blocked from the ballot that shouldn’t be a problem. Arron Banks says an announcement could come today and a new party constitution will be proposed….
    UPDATE 10:52am: UKIP MEPs and branch chairmen are now hitting the phones to organise a resolution to call a full party EGM. Big day for UKIP behind the scenes…
    http://order-order.com/2016/08/05/ukip-egm-imminent/

    30

  • #
    Ruairi

    Some Government warmists insist,
    That the warming they ‘know’ must exist,
    Caused by man, as suspected,
    Will through funds be detected,
    Which former researchers had missed.

    130

  • #
    PeterS

    What are they afraid of? The truth of course. Government establishments like the CSIRO are not interested in the truth.

    41

  • #
    bobl

    Jo!
    Have you read this article on michaelsmithnews

    http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2016/08/significant-progress-on-australias-taxpayer-donations-to-the-clinton-foundation-thank-you-for-bearin.html

    Significant progress on Australia’s taxpayer donations to the Clinton Foundation – thank you for bearing with me

    Seems David’s good work was given away to – Of all places, “The Clinton Foundation” now apparently under investigation for various alleged disclosure discrepancies. The Clinton evasiveness apparently runs deeper than just the plain ‘ole email servers in a closet variety.

    120

    • #
      TdeF

      Amazing. Millions of dollars to fund carbon dioxide reduction around the world as a charity? So open to rorts, so vague and ultimately meaningless. All this through a charity? What sort of charity is that? A carbon dioxide reduction charity? Is that what Africa really needs? Is anyone better off for this money, apart from the recipients?

      Basically the frequency of elements created in nuclear fusion decreases rapidly with atomic number and weight. So Hydrogen, He, Li, Be, B, Carbon, N, Oxygen all the way to Uranium 92. 99% of all life consists of just three elements, Hydrogen, Carbon and Oxygen. Filled with water and we burn like wood, we are carbon (dioxide) lifeforms. The Clintons have vilified Carbon, presumably because it can be black even though in its purest form it is diamond. So we Australians gave the Clinton family millions of dollars to reduce carbon dioxide in Africa? How generous. Are we insane? Where did all this money go? What good did it do? Or is that a silly question? Will anyone ever know? Certainly not if the recipient gets to be President of the United States.

      120

      • #
        Yonniestone

        The art of the Robber Baron never died with civilised society, it simply adapted to it’s environment…..

        80

        • #
          Analitik

          At least the Robber Baron’s left a useful legacy.
          I guess we could consider CLARA to be a modern day attempt at the Robber Baron.

          20

  • #
    F. Ross

    >>>Craig Thomas

    1st Rule of Holes! Enough said?

    40

  • #
    Eugene WR Gallun

    Speaking as an American one of the great enjoyments of this site is the insight into Australian life, particularly the politics.

    Eugene WR Gallun

    70

  • #
    grahamd

    The back flip, a very large section of the conservative support base were dreading!
    As for being science minister,I would most certainly; question Greg Hunts scientific credentials, especially when he has ignored peer reviewed science, in favour of IPCC twaddle.

    Talking climate models, that is a classic example; you cannot reliably model a chaotic system! The computing systems are not even capable- shit in shit out – so now, even more expensive shit to follow?

    Remember
    Believing Six Impossible Things before Breakfast, and Climate Models …
    ▶ 52:10
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvhipLNeda4

    Richard Lindzen reveals the real …

    91

    • #
      Angry

      Yet another nail in the coffin of the ONCE Conservative liberal party..

      20

    • #
      Craigthomas

      This is the same Richard Lindzen who was forced to admit about his climate paper “we made mistakes…it was embarrassing”?
      Lindzen’s climate model was so rubbish, it was instantly debunked, even before the cooling it predicted failed to materialise.
      *Surely* you are sceptical enough to take anything Lindzen says with a good tabl spoon full of salt?.

      13

      • #
        AndyG55

        That is what REAL scientists do when they make a mistake.. admit it, and correct it.

        Please name ONE self-called “climate scientist™” who has ever admitted to any of their MANY, MANY mistakes.

        10

        • #
          Craigthomas

          Name an uncorrected mistake.

          11

          • #
            bullocky

            Methinks you are too late, Craig; perhaps deliberately.

            00

            • #
              Craigthomas

              Are you suggesting Andy has attention span issues? It would certainly go some way towards explaining his learning difficulties

              00

              • #
                bullocky

                Craig,
                Using a question reduces your offering to insinuation. Readers will hope that your science is not of the same standard.

                00

              • #
                Craig Thomas

                Well, Andy, as usual, accuses genuine scientists of making “MANY MANY” mistakes.
                As usual, he fails to provide any detail to support his assertion.

                00

              • #
                bullocky

                Craig,
                Because your objection wasn’t lodged within a (what he may consider) a reasonable time frame, Andy may think you are well aware of the ‘mistakes’ he refers to.

                00

  • #
    handjive

    Carbon tax hit small: CSIRO
    . . .
    Unless they have more science that can prove another tax will stop the weather, I’d say their job is done.

    I mean, why would you need another tax if this one works?

    No, I’m not a loony.

    This is ‘science’.

    40

  • #
  • #
    Another Ian

    Way O/T but

    ” jorgekafkazar
    August 5, 2016 at 1:03 pm

    The Conversation is an anagram of ‘rotten anchovies.’ This could account for the stink.”

    A comment at

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/08/05/cooking-up-denialism-in-some-universities/

    40

  • #
    TedM

    “Greg Hunt orders CSIRO to hire back scientists to study “settled” stuff”

    Is this the first goose to ever lay a lead egg??????????

    50

  • #
    pat

    ***not settled. of course, it sent the MSM abuzz too:

    5 Aug: CBC: AP: ‘New particle’ found at Large Hadron Collider wasn’t for real
    Exciting signals announced in December were just statistical blip, scientists say
    Last December, researchers at the European Center for Nuclear Research saw two readings of what could have been a new particle that might have upended the existing main physics theory. The same centre in 2012 discovered the Higgs boson or “God particle.”…
    The early unconfirmed new particle readings in December ***set the physics world abuzz…
    At a Chicago physics conference Friday, Tiziano Camporesi, a CERN chief scientific spokesman, said more data show that what they saw was nothing, just a random statistical fluctuation.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/new-particle-1.3708890

    The Particle That Wasn’t
    New York Times-5 hours ago
    “We don’t see anything,” said Tiziano Camporesi of CERN…

    Just a burp: Intriguing hints of new physics particle evaporate
    CBS News-2 hours ago

    20

  • #
    TdeF

    It does however raise the question underlying the sackings and rehiring in so called Climate Science. For what actual pressing reason is the CSIRO or the BOM ‘researching’ the weather? Why is the CSIRO even involved? What can we do about global phenomena anyway?

    Apart from the idea that invisible and harmless and absolulutely necessary CO2 is the curse of industrialization, the idea that mankind controls CO2 levels is completely unproven and in fact totally disproven. What effect increased CO2 has on the weather is simply a moot point if we do not control it and can do nothing about it.

    Is there any other reason to have hundreds of people in full time study and research on Global weather? Aren’t there much better things for trained expert Australian scientists to be doing like adaptation of crops to change? Wasn’t that the entire point of the CSIRO, to assist agriculture? Besides how do you even adapt to change which is so very slight it is almost zero and therefore of no actual consequence at all?

    Sure the seas keep rising at a steady rate as they have done for millenia and in a thousand years we might have a minor problem, but we will have much bigger problems by then as we have now. Where will we put 100 Billion people? How will we feed them? Where will we get the water and power?

    So why in a time of fiscal overspending by governments is our government spending hundreds of millions (justifying) Climate Change? Where do we, the people of Australia, benefit at all? Mr Hunt, what is this all about, really? The Clinton Charity and a river of money? The EU and UN agendas? The greatest river of cash in peacetime organized and run by politicians from the public purse with the flimsiest of excuses alleging ‘The Science is In’. In what?

    Maybe Pauline Hanson can say “Please Explain”? Now they have to answer. It’s not their money.

    50

    • #
      Another Ian

      TdeF

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Scientific_and_Industrial_Research_Organisation

      Lists some of their previous acomplishments. And controversies – recent, you’ll notice.

      Doesn’t mention that they once even had a rangeland group

      20

      • #
        TdeF

        Thanks.

        At least they no longer claim to have invented WiFi, which is a relief. In fact the real question is
        whether the inventor had any idea that it was going to be used. It looks like legal serendipity.

        Founded in 1916 that amounts to a total expenditure on research of say $1,300 Billion for a total of 17 significant inventions in 100 years.
        That’s the entire government income for 3 whole years. 5,000 people. $1,300 million per year and that’s the list?

        So an invention every five years at a cost of $6.5Billion per invention.
        Not impressed. That’s a huge and very expensive full time research organization to achieve so little.

        You have to ask if the same $1.3Trillion was in partnership with industry on a success basis whether Australia would be far better off.

        Of course you have to allow for at least 350 full time people trying to prove global warming/climate change existed and was a problem.
        Imagine 350 full time people in any other scientific endeavour? You would get results.

        No, the CSIRO, ABC, SBS and a few others should be sold, saving $3Billion a year. Why should we keep paying? Public service research has all the wrong motivations like council efficiencies, three men to a shovel.

        Besides, look how CSL has performed privately!

        50

        • #
          Another Ian

          “Besides, look how CSL has performed privately!”

          IIRC Bell Labs used to average a patent a day before the bust up of the Bell System

          30

  • #
    pat

    why worry? haven’t the “pollsters” given Clinton the presidency already?

    5 Aug: ClimateChangeNews: Megan Darby: Paris climate deal on cusp of entering into force this year
    Momentum is building to kick start the UN pact in 2016, before Donald Trump can get his hands on the US presidency
    The Paris climate deal is a hair’s breadth away from meeting the criteria to enter into force in 2016.
    That is the upshot of two independent analyses, by the Marshall Islands foreign ministry and consultancy Climate Analytics…
    So far, 22 countries have done so, led by island states acutely vulnerable to the impacts of sea level rise.
    North Korea became the latest to deposit its ratification papers this week. It counts towards the numbers, despite being one of a handful of countries not to pledge domestic climate efforts towards the deal…
    Peru, Morocco, Iran, Ukraine and Ghana took the necessary steps at home in the past month, ready to file with the UN.
    Many leaders have promised to follow this year, including representatives of the two biggest emitters: China and the US…
    By the Marshall Islands reckoning, 58 countries and 54% of emissions are in the early approval club. Climate Analytics (LINK) counts 55 and 56%.
    The differences reflect some room for interpretation over what counts as a commitment…
    The campaign reflects some anxiety over Donald Trump’s assertion he would “cancel” the Paris deal if elected US president in November.
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2016/08/05/paris-climate-deal-on-cusp-of-entering-into-force-this-year/

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      Angry

      If the msn & pollsters suggest corrupt clinton is heading for a win, you know the opposite is going to occur.
      Just like Brexit.

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    pat

    one way or another:

    4 Aug: Reuters: Rory Carroll: California voters could decide future of climate change program
    California voters could decide whether to extend the state’s pioneering climate change program beyond 2020 when they go to the polls in two years, an official within Governor Jerry Brown’s administration said on Thursday.
    Talk of a ballot initiative comes as a Brown-backed bill that would require the state to cut its emissions of greenhouse gases to 40 percent below 1990 levels by 2030 has stalled, despite polls showing high public support for the measure…
    On Thursday, Nancy McFadden, executive secretary for the Brown administration, said it was a fallacy to believe that if the bill does not pass by the end of the month – the deadline for each house to pass legislation in the current session – it will break the state’s climate agenda.
    McFadden said if all legislative efforts failed this year, and next, the administration could put forward a ballot initiative.
    “Let’s be clear: We are going to extend our climate goals and cap-and-trade program – one way or another,” McFadden said in a tweet…
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-california-climatechange-ballot-idUSKCN10G079

    5 Aug: CarbonPulse: China considers staggering allocation, compliance under national ETS
    China is considering spreading out allowance allocation dates and annual compliance deadlines for different sectors across the year, according to a senior NDRC climate change official…
    http://carbon-pulse.com/23093/

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    Popeye26

    Just watching the opening of the Olympic games and they used the opportunity to hype up the Global Warming BS with Ban Ki Moon watching on, of course.

    They had images of countries coastlines being inundated by sea level rise, food shortage problems etc etc etc – all due to man made CO2. What the hell this has to do with the Olympic games has me perplexed!

    Wonderful how all the “elites” get to be on the bandwagon and travel all over the world to these and various other events (read Paris etc) while us ordinary people just have to pay up so they can live the lifestyle that we can’t.

    Sounds VERY much like socialism or communism to me?

    Cheers,

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    pat

    Popeye26 -

    am watching it too, including the CAGW propaganda.

    oops. what a difference a few days make…and i still don’t believe u, reuters:

    5 Aug: Reuters: Grant Smith: Clinton’s lead over Trump narrows to less than three points: Reuters/Ipsos
    Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton’s lead over Republican rival Donald Trump narrowed to less than 3 percentage points, according to a Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll released on Friday, down from nearly eight points on Monday…
    The reasons behind the shift were unclear…
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-idUSKCN10G2BQ

    5 Aug: US News: David Catanese: Hillary Clinton’s Newest Challenge: Great Expectations
    The clear front-runner for the presidency now carries the burden of a presumed victory.
    A McClatchy/Marist survey gave Clinton a 14-point advantage. Fox News came out of the field with a 9-point Clinton lead. Other outfits pegged her margin between 4 and 9 points…
    Based on current polling, Clinton would comfortably clear 300 electoral college votes, leaving Trump barely inching over 200…
    James Carville, the famed campaign strategist of Bill Clinton’s 1992 run, tells U.S. News he’s heard that some Democratic pollsters suspended their surveys this week, because their samples were reading too Democratic and were not representative of the ultimate electorate.
    “After a convention produces these bumps, the Democrats want to stay on the phone for the interview and Republicans don’t. It produces a very high party ID. You expect an 8-point spread on Democratic ID, and they’re coming in at ***12 and 14,” Carville says. “Yes, there’s a big bounce now, but let’s wait awhile. It’ll settle into a good place, but it won’t settle into where it is.”…
    http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-08-05/hillary-clintons-newest-challenge-great-expectations

    5 Aug: GatewayPundit: Jim Hoft: Busted! Crooked Media Plays With Polling Numbers To Pretend Georgia Is Hillary Country
    Reuters was caught red-handed changing poll results to erase a Trump lead last week.
    Now the Atlanta Journal Constitution does the same pretending that Hillary is going to win Georgia.
    Polling firms contact registered voters. The number of voters who answer the phone and agree to the survey are put into a number called the “unweighted base.” The polling firm then applies their own “formula” based on who they think is going to vote. In the example below, 278 Republicans in Georgia answered the phone for a poll in May. The AJC’s polling firm thinks that’s too many Republicans, so they move that to 245, “adjusting” the numbers with an “average weighted response.” SNIP 2 1/2 months, later, the same polling firm substantially altered their “secret formula.” …
    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/08/busted-crooked-media-plays-poll-pretend-georgia-hillary-country/

    Youtube: 50secs: CNN ADMITS BIASED FOR HILLARY (free ride so far from the media)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc3EI1xD_Cw

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    pat

    channel 7 saying Brazil didn’t shy away from climate change. it’s a real thing. a fact. the world has to deal with it.

    5 Aug: Romper: Zakiya Jamal: Judi Dench Narrates Rio Olympics Climate Change Video, & It’s Epic
    Although the Rio Opening Ceremony is a time for celebration and a showcase of all the wonderful things Brazil has to offer, the ceremony also took the time to talk about a serious issue: climate change. And who better to discuss this worldwide issue than England’s sweetheart? Academy Award winner Judi Dench narrated the Rio Olympics climate change video with a sincerity and seriousness that caught many viewers attention. The video showed maps and diagrams, displaying how the global temperatures are rising, causing the melting of ice caps and the warming of cities across the globe, including, of course, Rio.
    Rio has been disappearing under floodwaters and it’s no surprise that Brazil took this opportunity, when they have all of the world’s eyes on them, to raise awareness about an issue that greatly affects the city and the country as a whole…
    Her melodious voice grabbed viewers’ attention while also being clear about the importance of the issue. It’s no surprise that she was chosen to fill this role, and, ironically enough, her James Bond co-star, Daniel Craig, filled a similar role when he participated in a skit for the London 2012 Olympics…
    Of course, climate change is still a very highly debated topic and not everyone was pleased with Brazil using the opening ceremony as a platform to promote awareness about climate change. However, for the most part, the response seems to be positive…
    ???Science is overwhelmingly in favor of supporting climate change…
    https://www.romper.com/p/judi-dench-narrates-rio-olympics-climate-change-video-its-epic-15860

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      You know the irony is that if climate change was real and catastrophic , it would be self evident.
      People know it’s a scam and when your average tradie calls BS on it, you know the Elite have lost the war…..

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    Drapetomania

    Now with all these funds they can supply the Australian Antarctic Division with resources to publish and archive the Law Dome d180 series…
    Thank god for post modern “science” and choosing different narratives for the sheepeople.. :)

    “…In August 2003, van Ommen had said that they expected to “submit it in the coming few months”. Thirteen years later, the long and multiply promised article remains unpublished…”

    https://climateaudit.org/2016/08/03/gergis-and-law-dome/

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    pat

    handjive -

    one of the hardest things i’ve had to find is ABC Lateline Emma Alberici interview with Malcolm Roberts.

    u can find it here, starting at 19mins17secs into the video; ends with sovereign citizens movement minute or so:

    VIDEO: ABC iView: Malcolm Roberts: Lateline with Emma Alberici
    http://iview.abc.net.au/programs/lateline/NC1625H135S00#playing

    ABC’s only document on any part of the interview appears to be in this multi-attributed piece, which never mentions Lateline or Alberici, & which sticks a quote about climate in the middle of nowhere, without explanation!

    5 Aug: ABC: One Nation senator Malcolm Roberts denies links to Sovereign Citizens movement
    By Nick Grimm, Peta Donald and Francis Keany
    Updated yesterday at 10:40pm
    “No, I’m not. But by the way, we are all sovereigns of this country, but I’m not a Sovereign Citizen, no, not at all,” Senator Roberts said.
    The One Nation senator said he believed that the science supporting conventional views that human activity was warming the planet and has been corrupted by those intent on benefiting from a scam on a global scale.
    He said the sovereignty of Australia had been “corrupted”, after being asked for the reasons behind publishing the self-declared affidavit…
    “I think it’s a small cabal of prominent international banks that are driving this and they have already admitted that they’re seeking to gain trillions of dollars in trading carbon dioxide paper credits,” Senator Roberts said…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-05/one-nation-senator-denies-link-to-sovereign-citizens/7695442

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    • #
      handjive

      Cheers. Thank you.

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    • #
      Andrew

      That letter to St Julia DID seem rather out there. Mind you, if he WAS part of the Sovereign Citizens movement and did indeed write the alleged letter, he would be less out there than
      - Lambie
      - every Green
      - Craig Emerson (for at least 2 reasons)
      - Tony Windbag

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  • #
    Scott

    Joanne,
    As a Yank, I love the Aussie centric political news Especially as it relates to climate!
    Keep up the great work!

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  • #
    Dennis

    I want to respond to earlier comments regarding the latest very fast train proposal.

    Firstly it is a private consortium proposal and apparently they already have secured and/or acquired most of the land required for the new secured railway line system. And I have always been a sceptic as to the commercial viability of this project because of our small population, at present 24 million people, and spread of regional cities and towns. Air travel would appear to be more economical and practical at this time.

    On the other hand the projections for population growth in the shorter term is 35 million by 2035 (around that timing) and growing to much larger numbers with existing regional cities growing to one million people on average while at present the populations are in the 20-50,000 area apart from Albury-Wodonga, Wollongong and Newcastle with a hundred or so thousand each. I do not have the exact numbers.

    The new railway proposal would take decades to construct so the timing for operational level of infrastructure would fit well with estimated or planned population growth along the East Coast of Australia, starting with Sydney-Canberra-Melbourne and later extending North.

    People in Goulburn, for example, could easily commute to jobs in Sydney.

    This non-government nation building project would have significant economic benefits.

    And, obviously, there would be tax concessions and other forms of taxpayer assistance to the consortium, but that is for valuable infrastructure owned by shareholders, managed and operated by private sector management, impacting positively on economic prosperity for many decades into the future.

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    • #
      Dennis

      And please note that the New South Wales XPT country trains were designed and built by Comeng Limited based on British Rail fast trains, but ours could never achieve their design speed of around 120 MPH because the railway tracks were not up to that standard.

      There was an upgrading from Melbourne to Brisbane carried out during the Howard Coalition Government years 96-07 supported by the three State Governments however by that time road transport was the preferred option for passenger movements and the XPT services were downgraded.

      But the new very fast train would be much faster and on secured railway tracks of the best standard available.

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    • #
      ianl8888

      … apparently they already have secured and/or acquired most of the land required for the new secured railway line system …

      Sorry Dennis, but that is almost impossible to believe. Need to see a guaranteed map plus land sale deeds and local greenies’ reactions before this story has any legs.

      O’Farrell et al are not reliable sources of information, nor are any of the press releases. There is a very strong smell of B/S here.

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        • #
          Dennis

          “Land at each of the eight ‘greenfield development’ sites has already ­been secured by CLARA under option agreements signed with land owners.
          This would trigger a sale “on condition that we pass the regulatory milestones that we need, which is basically having a mandate from the state government in return for us to provide the rail and civil infrastructure,” says CLARA chairman Nick Cleary.”

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          • #
            Andrew

            Um, you realise that acquiring land AT 8 new cities to be built (coincidentally, exactly where they happen to own previously worthless land) is not the same thing as acquiring the land joining the 2000km of track – most notably, the very expensive land that forms the last 90km leading into the Sydney CBD terminus?

            These people bought 8 almost worthless farms. They have declared them to be new cities to be built on the condition that the whole world facilitate the building of 2000km of track to their farms.

            Most implausibly, the cities of Wagga Wagga and Albury Albury would be expected to fully cooperate with the disruption of building a fast rail line through their LGAs in the full knowledge that they would NOT be getting stops. In fact their cities will be destroyed by the creation of a New Wagga and New Albury with Very Foolish Train stations about 50km out of town. These new cities would be given a massive leg up. They would be 1 hr from the capital cities, have brand new everything – naturally there would be massive hollowing out of existing country towns that would be left 8 hours from Sydney on the Cooma Mail train.

            Why would any regional Council spend the next 50 years collaborating with a $200bn land and infrastructure project designed to destroy them and leave them as abandoned ghost towns?

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            • #
              ianl8888

              Yes

              I’m afraid our Dennis appears to accept MSM reports without analysis if he likes the story.

              There’s a zillion obstacles yet, none of which he appears to be cognisant of.

              Oh well …

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              • #
                Analitik

                I said it in the previous thread where Dennis brought this up and I’ll state it again.

                The whole commercial viability of the project depends on the development areas near the towns along the corridor into new inland “smart cities” – this is why Cathy McGowan backs this as the Indi electorate would benefit massively.

                The “vision” hinges on these “smart cities” being sustainable, renewable, efficient, blah, blah, blah.
                So basically another Marxist redistribution of wealth from the real economy (the part that mines/grows/makes things) to the virtual Third Way economy.

                http://www.clara.com.au/smart-cities.html

                It’s a plan worthy of Stalinist Soviet Union or Maoist China – a giant spend for stimulus.

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              • #
                Dennis

                I am honoured to have your guidance and superior knowledge as a source of entertainment Ian.

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            • #
              Dennis

              AUSTRALIA

              Population size

              Australia’s population at 30 June 2012 of 22.7 million is projected to increase to between 36.8 million and 48.3 million in 2061, and reach between 42.4 million and 70.1 million in 2101.

              The three main series project continuing population growth throughout the projection period. In Series A, Australia experiences strong and consistent growth, reaching 48.3 million in 2061 and 70.1 million in 2101. In Series B, the population will reach 41.5 million in 2061 and 53.6 million in 2101. In Series C, growth is projected to be lower, with the population reaching 36.8 million in 2061 and 42.4 million in 2101.

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              Dennis

              Andrew the same short sighted negativity is at present on display around inner city Sydney from people opposed to light rail projects and new precincts incorporating higher density housing and commercial levels with road and light rail, Connex for example.

              And few understand that the future is larger populations and what infrastructure now exists will not cope, indeed is not coping well right now.

              Accordingly, a very fast train will enable people to live further away and to buy more affordable dwellings to commute from to the cities.

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            el gordo

            The Canberra Times ran a story last February and I reckon Andrew Robb was head hunted, as were the other ex- politicians on the board.

            ‘Australia should grab the opportunity of very low interest rates to build the very fast train now along the east coast, according to former trade minister Andrew Robb.

            “We have to do it … we should do it now whilst the world is awash with cheap money,” he said.

            ‘Mr Robb said three international companies had approached him “again and again” offering to finance and build the line, to link Canberra, Sydney and Melbourne.

            ‘He put his frank assessment about the nation-building project two days after announcing he was stepping down from the Turnbull cabinet.’

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      Lewis P Buckingham

      People in Goulburn have been in favour of the VFT for years and years and years.
      The joke is that it is the only train that runs just before an election.

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      • #
        Andrew

        Yes. Not sure they would be once they work out the Very Foolish Train will stop 50km away at New Goulburn where Lyle Lanley has purchased some sub-economic farmland. They just get the privilege of a train roaring by at 350km/h every half hour or so.

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      • #
        Dennis

        Maybe, but one day in the future Goulburn will have an estimated population of around one million people.

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      Another Ian

      Dennis

      If you work back through postings at

      http://www.coyoteblog.com/

      on very fast rail in various places you might think that this is likely another of Turnbull’s “rabbit out of hat” jobs.

      As is said to pull a rabbit out of a hat you first have to put a rabbit into a hat.

      And Moonbeam is on that track in California.

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    Gregg Armstrong

    Unfortunately scientists have become little more than functionaries carrying out frauds in service to the state. I have become extremely skeptical regarding the veracity of any scientific claims emanating from scientists dependent in any way on state funding. By state I mean any government body.

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    Analitik

    I just sent the following to my local member after she responded to the copy of the letter I sent to Josh Frydenberg (no reply from him at all). Probably won’t do any good but I’m going to keep trying
    ==================================

    Dear Mrs O’Dwyer

    Thankyou for replying but I can see that you have only had a cursory look at my letter if you consider its content was primarily concerned with the Environment portion of Mr Frydenberg’s new portfolio. I appreciate that being a member of the Cabinet, you are an extremely busy person and most of my letter did not relate to your responsibilities but I am far from a right wing crank. Even if I was concerned about climate change, most of my letter would still have been relevant for the Energy portion of Mr Frydenberg’s portfolio.

    I do hope that you took note on the comments I made about conservative disapproval of many of the policies presented by The Liberal Party at the recent election. The election of 4 One Nation senators and the loss of a The Greens senator to a The Xenephon Team demonstrates a shift to the right by the electorate. Australia is more conservative than Malcolm Turnbull and Mark Textor have led you to believe. I hope this comes into your consideration when performing your Ministerial and Representative duties.

    Thanks again for replying. Mr Frydenberg’s recent interview with Emma Alberici on Lateline was not encouraging, however, and Greg Hunt’s directive for the CSIRO even less so. I truly fear for the future of The Liberal Party

    Yours respectfully,

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    pat

    a final one of polls for today – mind u, it is not easy going thru the internals in the pdf format at the foxnews link:

    4 Aug: OrlyTaitz: Latest FOX poll had 17% more Democrats than Republicans in order to show Hillary leading by 10%. Shame on you, FOX!
    Please, go to the link below:
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2016/08/03/fox-news-poll-aug-3-2016/
    According to Gallop, there are only 3% more Democrats than Republicans.
    Now, look at the FOX poll. It shows a total of 1022 registered voters polled. FOX polled only 370 Republicans and 434 Democrats. That is 17.29% more Democrats than Republicans. They show a ridiculous 43% of the population to be Registered Democrats, which is completely bogus. There are only 30-33% of registered Democrats in the population.
    http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/latest-fox-poll-had-17-more-democrats-than-republicans-in-order-to-show-hillary-leading-by-10-shame-on-you-fox/

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    John Michelmore

    I cannot believe what I saw on the Olympic opening ceremony, complete indoctrination of the viewers watching about climate change. What a disgrace. We turned it off!!

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    • #
      Peter C

      Yes John #44,

      I was also disappointed and a bit surprised by the blatant spruiking of Climate Change. There were some pretty blatant green lies in there including this:
      “Look at Greenland in the past decade. It is disappearing very quickly” The accompanying graphic showed reduction in Arctic sea ice, but Greenland did not disappear at all and the Greenland ice cap more importantly remained unchanged.

      Last night I watched the SBS program The Berlin Olympics. The program made it clear that the Olympic movement was totally corrupted by the Berlin Olympics and things have become worse, not better since then. It is all theatre at best, even the athletes performances. It is a pity that it captures the public imagination so completely.

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    theRealUniverse

    Nice opening ceremony except for the “AGENDA!” couldnt believe it very bad, I guess the Olympic committee was ‘told’ to play that card. Funny thing and irony is that all the CO2 is needed to feed all those lovely trees the atheletes planted! And the Amazon jungle which consumes mega-tons of CO2. Gatta feed those plants!

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    John Michelmore

    As some have already said, we might be seeing the last Olympics, I won’t be watching any more!

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    James

    Do these count as ‘Green Jobs’, jobs of no value that the government feels like creating.

    00

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    ROM

    A quick browse through the comments and it is all about politicians and their inept humbugging!
    So from the Brainy Quote blog site;
    .

    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

    Groucho Marx
    .
    It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first.

    Ronald Reagan
    .
    If you have always believed that everyone should play by the same rules and be judged by the same standards, that would have gotten you labeled a radical 60 years ago, a liberal 30 years ago and a racist today.

    Thomas Sowel

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