JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

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Weekend Unthreaded, 8.7 out of 10 based on 15 ratings

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89 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    John F. Hultquist

    … emergency measures are needed to ease punishing costs for South Australian industry…

    Well, who could see that coming?
    Or who could not?

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    • #
      Joe Lalonde

      Following the US policies until totally bankrupt and have to revolt against the government like most of the world is currently doing.

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      • #

        Joe Lalonde July 17, 2016 at 2:24 am

        “Following the US policies until totally bankrupt and have to revolt against the government like most of the world is currently doing.”

        Did you upside-down AU folk ever ask The US folk? We is all stupid! We is nowhere near as stupid as The US government!
        All the best! -will-

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        • #
          Ted O'Brien.

          I am not at all sure that the electorate understands that the principal objective of the ALP, which should never be dignified with the title of Australian Labor, is to abolish all private management of industry and private ownership of land.

          Their route to this goal does indeed lie through total bankruptcy. The Gillard government’s carbon tax was the last tool the Marxists needed to accomplish that objective.

          30

    • #
      James Murphy

      There will no doubt need to be a levy imposed on everyone in order to wind the price back by an insignificant percentage for a very short amount of time.

      10

    • #

      I wonder how the submarine project (and others) will go if they can’t get enough power? I saw the Collins being built and given what they have to do, power is going to be critical.

      80

    • #
      Another Graeme

      I read that one of the measures suggested was greater access to eastern states (coal fired) power. oh the irony.

      60

      • #
        ianl8888

        Worse than that:

        The SA Minister for the State’s energy portfolio insists that because the Commonwealth encourages windmills by subsidy, the rest of Aus must close down “fossil fuel” generators and share the windmills.

        Aus needs a Brexit or three …

        120

        • #
          Analitik

          Brexit for SA – I’ll support that.

          But unfortunately, it’s too late for Victoria unless that Marxist tool, Daniel Andrews gets booted from the Premier’s position in short order. He is already trying to resume the undermining of the Victorian power grid with new reverse auctions for renewables.

          40

  • #
    DMA

    In my search for truth in the global warming debate I started with one question: What is global temperature? When I was asking that question I had not questioned the climate crisis being trumpeted on the TV. Ten years later I have devised many other questions to study. In that pursuit I have concluded that the likelihood of causing dangerous environmental changes by burning fossil fuels is vanishingly small, certainly not eminent, and that the manifold benefits afforded mankind far out weigh any potential harm.

    Have you tried to answer these questions?

    What is the right climate or global temperature?

    If the science is settled (Al Gore 1992), why can’t we get good predictions? (The arctic ice was supposed to disappear every year since 2004 etc.).

    Why is climate change harmful and not an improvement?

    When were climates not changing? What used to drive climate change?

    What is bad about CO2? Are their benefits to be expected with increased CO2 or only doom?

    How can we tell that it is our CO2 and not some other CO2 that is the culprit in this empending but as yet to be experienced devastation?

    How could (or why would) the EPA label CO2 as a pollutant under the Clean Air Act?

    What are the sources of CO2 and how long does it last?

    Why was it colder (and at other times warmer) when there was more (and sometimes less) CO2 in the atmosphere?

    Why has there been so much misinformation spread about the effects of climate change on polar bears, penguins, corals, asthma, malaria, etc.?

    What is a good definition of climate change? How does one deny it?

    Why are CO2 emissions called “carbon foot print”?

    Email coming your way DMA with details. Happy to help. :-) – Jo

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    • #
      Joe Lalonde

      There is a fantastic amount of different sequences that the sun does that is not studied or recorded due to that “science is settled” nonsense that the US government likes to stuff as science.
      You’d be amazed at the different pressures by off-gasing that shapes and provided circular motion power to planets as they are in sequence with the suns rotation.
      Using bad technology without taking into account the different pressures of each planet as they guage by the current pressure by our own that they do not count or include.

      51

    • #

      Hi DMA. I am gathering some case studies for a book I am researching. I am interested in case studies of people who have moved from a position of complete acceptance of CAGW to a position of doubt. (At the same time I am interested in case studies of people who have moved the other way.) Could you make contact with me?

      70

      • #
        DMA

        Hi David
        I would be glad to visit but am not tech savvy enough to know how to contact you without just publishing my e-mail here and, as much as I appreciate Jo’s site, I suspect that is not a great idea. If you know a workable way let me know.
        [Try clicking on David's name. -Fly]

        31

        • #

          DMA,

          notice how David Mason Jones name is highlighted in red. That is the link to his home site. If you click on that, you’ll then be taken to his site and along that top menu bar at his site at the far right is a contact tab, which you can then click on.

          You can either leave a message for him there, or use his (supplied) email address, and if you do leave a message there, he is the only one who has access to your email address.

          Tony.

          60

      • #
        Analitik

        I am interested in case studies of people who have moved from a position of complete acceptance of CAGW to a position of doubt

        David Mason -Jones, have you investigated the background of Judith Curry? She is a professor and former Chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology and was once firmly in the CAGW camp.

        She ventured onto sceptic/denialist sites to investigate the thinking and convince people of “the truth”. As time went on, she fond herself swayed by the reasoning and findings of the sceptics to the point where she now see that the science is definitely not settled and has present this at a US Congressional hearing.
        https://judithcurry.com/about/

        Sorry in advance if you are already fully aware of all this

        60

        • #

          Thanks Analitik, Yes, I am very much aware of the case of Judith Curry but I have not yet approached her to see if she would be prepared to be involved. I do not, however, want to produce a book that is a cover-to-cover list of Ph.D’s and other prominent people. To do that would be its own form of Argument from Authority. If I did that, I would be arguing that only those with a Ph.D have the right to hold an opinion on the subject.

          In addition to those Ph.D’s, I want the taxi drivers, farmers, school students, professional people, geologists, technicians, citizen scientists and others. I want to demonstrate that the people who have moved from belief to doubt come from a broad cross section of society and have all gone through a questioning process to become skeptical of the multitude of claims about CAGW. I want to be able to show that they are not just ‘dead-headed’ people who lack the ability to change their minds.

          I want to include people who are lower down on the formal academic totem pole – but who are intelligent, understand the scientific process and have the courage to ask questions and follow through on the answers they are given.

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          • #
            Analitik

            Well I was a believer of the concept out of inattention and laziness until Al Gore made his “science is settled” statement. My absolute inability to believe that Al Gore could be right about ANYTHING made me begin investigating the “evidence” and “proof” that was being peddled by the CAGW side.

            From there, it was the inconsistencies between the model predictions vs the actual measurements and then the “adjustments” for which I could find no justification that convinced me that CAGW was a farce, peddled to serve the interests of those with a stake in the industries benefiting from carbon abatement and all the other schemes to prevent climate change.

            If my case is of any relevance, let me know and I will email you.

            40

            • #

              Dear Analitik, Yes, I’d like to make direct contact. Please email me.

              One caution about what I want to do. I do not want to try and postulate the motivation of anyone like Al Gore or any other person who strongly pushes the CAGW ’cause’. Trying to understand someone else’s motivation can only lead to conspiracy theories and wrong conclusions. I simply want to keep it to the facts of why some people have moved from a position of unquestioning belief to a position of thinking doubt.

              Thanks for your interest.

              20

    • #

      DMA July 17, 2016 at 2:37 am

      “In my search for truth in the global warming debate I started with one question: What is global temperature?”

      “Global temperature” is the keyword in the deliberate SCAM of global temperature!!!

      Local temperature or temperature of local mass was introduced by Fahrenheit in 1724 as a measure of the difference in volumetric measurement of different matter as thermal power (heat) was applied to such difference in matter. (current referent Mercury (Hg) and Silicon dioxide (SiO2, glass). Each expands at some° C, measurable different rates, with application of thermal power.
      Easy to measure, difficult to obtain any meaning.
      In the case of earthling individuals, each is independent of others of near same mass, Statistically 37° C is near normal, perhaps healthy. 40° C is violently feverish, perhaps beyond recovery. 32° C. is long long dead!
      For the planet little is statistical, most is deterministic, even temperature, at any instant Earth has variance of 82 ° C from place to place. Average or global can have no meaning whatsoever. As the SCAM proceeds over time the gross SCAM becomes more and more evident!

      “Have you tried to answer these questions?”
      Yes! see above.

      “What is the right climate or global temperature?”

      Whatever you like! Stay, move, or die. Your choice!
      All the best! -will-

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    • #
      Robert O

      Referring to your questions about CO2: it is the basis of life itself since it is dependant on organic compounds, carbohydrates, which are converted to the sugar glucose, which in turn fuels multicellular organisms including all the animal kingdom. Animals do not synthesise carbohydrate, only plants do and for that they require CO2, sunlight, water a few minerals.

      So the warmistas, EPA,… are in denial or ignorant about the basic chemistry of life. Most greenhouse growers use CO2 enrichment to provide the tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers and salads for the bureaucrats to eat whilst they draft new regulations to curb CO2.

      131

  • #
    Robert O

    Renewable Energy in Eastern Australia

    Although renewable energy is part of the platforms of the major political parties, one has to question its feasibility in the light of considerable evidence to the contrary.

    For the past three months, A,M,J, the typical winter weather pattern of alternating low and high pressure systems are passing along the southern coastline. This has resulted in varying production from the wind turbines, from 5% to 85% of their nameplate capacity of 3669 MW. The production site is currently down so I will use data from two days at 6 pm. during the week to illustrate this point.

    Thermal generation….25,200…24,000
    Hydro generation…….4,000….4,000
    Wind generation……….900……400
    Solar generation………000……000

    Totals…………….30,100….28,400 MW

    The renewable components for these days, that is wind plus solar generation, are 3% and 1.4% respectively. It is debatable if Hydro generation should be included since the Hydro schemes, the Snowy and Tasmania, have been supplying 24/7 electricity for many decades, long before global warming and renewable energy became part of the political agenda of many countries. If the “green” adherents have opposed the construction of these hydro schemes in the past then it seems hypocritical to take credit for the renewable energy produced.

    Extrapolation of these two examples to the 50% renewable scenario means one is looking for approx. 14,000 to 15,000 MW of electricity production from renewable sources. Solar only generates electricity between 10am. and 4 pm. so wind energy has to produce this supply for the morning and evening peaks. This means approx. 14,500 x 3669/650 = 82,000 MW of wind turbines to generate the required 14,500 MW.

    Perhaps it is a little less onerous if one includes 4,000 MW of Hydro generation; that is still 78,000 MW of wind turbines. However, 80,000 MW of wind turbines requires 40,000 to 60,000 sq. km. of suitable land. This is two to three times the area of Metro Sydney plus Melbourne which is an incredible amount of land under wind turbines. Just imagine the logistics, the environmental approvals, objections by the neighbours and so on, even to purchase 20,000 4MW wind turbines would take decades.

    Obviously, it is not going to happen as people start to realise the implications of renewable energy but until they do the political hyperbole will continue.

    130

  • #

    There has been a lot said on Brexit. However, one aspect that covered in depth is the split of the vote across Britain. In The Democratic Deficit in the Referendum Result, I looked at the vote be constituency, showing that
    - Of the 14 regions of the UK, 11 voted to Leave. But the three Remain regions were London, Scotland & Northern Ireland. London and Scotland are where much of the political consensus come from.
    - The Remain camp also included the University Cities of Oxford, Cambridge and Bristol, along with the City of Manchester.
    - The two main political parties supported Remain, but the constituencies they represent mostly supported leave. However, the Labour party represents disproportionate numbers of the most extreme Remain and Leave constituencies.

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    • #

      In a follow-up post I looked at the divisions between the vote in the constituencies that the opposition Labour Party represents.
      To regain power the Labour Party needs to win seats in both England & Wales and regain many seats lost in Scotland. It could win sufficient seats in England & Wales to be the largest UK party by appealing to Brexit voters. Nut then it could only hold power by forming a coalition with the Scottish Nationalists who (paradoxically for a Party that wants Independence) supports the EU. The SNP may do this on condition of leaving the UK.
      Fortunately this is unlikely to happen in the near future, as the Labour Party is tearing itself apart. The hard-left leader Jeremy Corbyn has refused to stand down despite losing a No-confidence vote of MPs, with 80% voting against him. In a leadership election he is likely to get voted back in, as it is the membership who elects the leader.
      The EU Referendum – The end of the Labour Party or the United Kingdom?

      80

  • #
    doubtingdave

    The comment earlier from DMT is really interesting to me , I must admit that even though I past my 11 plus and had a grammar school education . we were taught what is nowadays referred to as a common core education . we were not taught to use our own minds or how to use the tools of scepticism . logic or critical thinking . it wasn’t until the Tony Blair government and the dodgy government information adds about the perils of global warming ( people leaving oilslick footprints and childrens bed time stories about drowning puppies ) that I began to question what I thought was what I had been taught , its only since ive been involved with the global warming debate that I have begun to use the logic and reason or critical thinking skills that lie dorment in all of us . its why I’m not much of a fan of lord Christopher Monkton , even though he played a major roll in my early scepticism , think about it , I come from the part of British society that for at least a thousand years were suppressed by a feudal system . whilst lord Chris comes from the minority that actualy benefited from that system , so is it a surprise to me that lord Chris can pick and choose what he decides to be sceptical about , like some kid in the pick and mix stall at Wolworths , is it f**k

    27

    • #
      TedM

      So what, I come from a nation founded on convicts. Does that make me any more or less privileged than those who transported the convicts. Does it make my assessment of any issue of more or less value.

      80

    • #
      Matty

      It’s not pick ‘n mix tho. is it ? It’s anything to do with the Left. If the Left are promoting it then alarm bells should ring because nothing is ever as it seems with that lot.

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    • #
      Raven

      Interesting.
      The undercurrents of class difference still exist in the UK.
      I’m going to guess, but in Australia we probably recognises that Christopher Monkton does have the airs and graces about him but we don’t see the class differences so much.

      But consider this. He’s a well connected man and doesn’t actually need to get tangled up with climatephobia and all the negativity that creates, so you have to ask why he does.
      I think we have to recognise that he’s a man of principal and that’s an appropriate and noble pursuit.
      He sure isn’t making any money out of it.

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    • #
      Manfred

      I come from the part of British society that for at least a thousand years were suppressed by a feudal system

      You should then at the very least be epigenetically rigged to kick over anything the Ministry of Truth spouts by now? And I’d be inclined to focus less on an individual, rather more the message massage.

      40

    • #
      toorightmate

      I’ll bet you flounder a bit on gender diversification.
      It’s bigger than the three R’s these days.

      30

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Name me a European society that wasn’t subject to a feudal system of one kind or another.

      We’ve all moved on. We’ve found our way to a more open democratic society.

      In some cases it was the very people you condemn who led the way.

      10

  • #
    PeterPetrum

    What are you trying to say, Dave? Just because Lord Monkton has come from a privileged background, does that make his opinions on any issue less worth considering? In my book your comments are reverse snobbery and have nothing to do with the science of climate. As a founder of and participant in the GWPF he clearly has a concern to ensure that debate is allowed and all points of view are considered, including yours.

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    • #
      PeterPetrum

      This was a reply to #5 – I failed to nest it.

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      • #
        doubtingdave

        PETE , its not rocket science is it , me and lord Chris are both British , but I come from the majority of brits that suffered from a feudal society for over a thousand years , lord Chris comes from the class that benefited from that society , so is it a surprise to me that whilst he uses his skills in logic and critical thinking when it comes to climate science scepticism ,but he chooses not to use those same skills when it comes to his faith .

        11

        • #
          Peter C

          That is a bit clearer DD. I was initially confused about what you meant by picking and choosing at Woolworths.

          I have a bit of a conundrum here. I have for years described myself as Agnostic . Applying similar skeptical rationalism to religion as I have to Climate Change has made me firm up a bit recently. But if Western civilization is based on Christianity (which I think Monckton would assert), do we loose anything by chucking it out. Western civilization without a moral underpinning seems to be vulnerable to decay.

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          • #
            Matty

            Not only to decay but to being consumed by alternative religious ideology with a committed following. A Knight of Malta isn’t going to stand by& let that happen.

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          • #
            doubtingdave

            Peter C and others , thanks for your replies , sorry its taken so long to get back to you , had a lovely sunday out with the family, this blog is at its best when its not just an echoe chamber , our little exchange demonstrates to David Mason Jones ( above ) that this site attracts people from all walks of life , that have arrived at their scepticism via many different paths , for what its worth i see global warming as part of an attempt to take us in to a worldwide totalitarian feudal system , and the holy Roman Empire ( starting with Constantine with his various edicts circa 304 AD ) is what they are using as a blueprint to take us there . If i dont go into detail on that opinion it is out of respect for the many on this blog that have a faith that i dont share , again tyhanks for your comments and all the best

            20

        • #
          Gary in Erko

          How do you know “he chooses not to use those same skills when it comes to his faith”

          A strange idea held by many, is that anyone who subscribes to the faith of their birth family hasn’t had a cold hard look at it. Consider instead those who proudly claim they dropped Church going at nine years old. Do they really still hold to the depth of knowledge of the cosmos as they perceived it as a child?

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          • #

            “Do they really still hold to the depth of knowledge of the cosmos as they perceived it as a child?”
            NO! The abject cry from all earthlings in times of extreme stress remains “I want my mommy”! -will-

            21

        • #
          Len

          I understand that Monkton family have only been “Lords” for three generation or so. His Father was a Brigadier. His grandfather was the first Lord as far as I know.

          30

  • #
    handjive

    Trump’s VP Doubts [Doomsday Global Warming]

    Climate ‘scientists’ warned Pence about CO2-induced “potential agricultural losses from flooding & drought”:

    “The experts wrote Pence a letter last year that points to the risks of rising temperatures in Indiana, such as potential agricultural losses from flooding and drought,”

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trump-s-vp-doubts-climate-change1/
    ~ ~ ~
    Indiana’s Agricultural Outlook for 2016

    “As of October 2015, with record yields for corn and soybeans, crop prices have fallen significantly. With normal weather in 2016 and normal crop yields, prices for corn, soybeans, wheat and hay could decline further as U.S. inventories of these commodities would continue to build.”

    http://www.ibrc.indiana.edu/ibr/2015/outlook/agriculture.html
    . . .

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    • #
      Mari C

      See, this is yet another glaring example of why I have decided there is no evil to CO2, no Global Catastrophic Warming (warming, yeah, for a bit -then change again) and those who are insisting we are all doomed because of CO2 are woefully misguided (or terminally, criminally, greedy) and should be offered a group hug, then sent off to a nice comfortable tent in the far far north.

      00

  • #
    pat

    14 Jul: Reuters: No more Tesla buyback guarantee as company cuts price of Model X
    by Alexandria Sage and Paul Lienert
    Tesla Motors Inc has ended a program that guaranteed the resale value of its cars, and lowered the starting price of its Model X crossover, the high-profile electric vehicle maker said on Wednesday.
    The discontinuation of the buyback program, as of July 1, allows Tesla to free up cash that had been set aside to buy back Model S cars after three years at a value of at least 50 percent of the base purchase price.
    The changes come after Tesla warned earlier this month it will miss its vehicle delivery target for a second consecutive quarter.
    It faces other challenges, including a regulatory investigation of its Autopilot technology following a May 7 fatal crash and more scrutiny of its financials after a proposed merger with SolarCity Corp…READON
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-prices-idUSKCN0ZT1HH?mod=djemCFO_h

    Registration required to read full article:

    5 pages: 15 Jul: SeekingAlpha: Tesla’s Deal To Buy SolarCity Stinks But Will Stockholders Do Anything About It?
    Summary
    •There are strong indications that Fidelity may have had inside track on SolarCity acquisition and has increased its position ahead of the announcement.
    •SolarCity appears set for another Terrible quarter. Will Tesla’s offer be revised based on performance and guidance.
    •Even Tesla fans should take a careful look at what the weak corporate governance is costing the stockholders.
    Furthermore, the information that has surfaced about the deal paints a picture of corporate governance run amok. In this article, we address some key corporate governance aspects of the deal.
    A look at the SolarCity stock price chart over the time period of interest tells a tale of likely mischief:…
    http://seekingalpha.com/article/3988745-teslas-deal-buy-solarcity-stinks-will-stockholders-anything

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  • #
    pat

    another interesting Tesla piece i save during the week:

    3 pages: 12 Jul: Forbes: David Trainer: Bailing Out SolarCity Costs Tesla Investors $7.4 Billion
    Tesla proposed to buy SolarCity for $2.5-$3 billion last month…
    Just how bad is this deal? I crunch the numbers and show that, even in the most optimistic cash flow scenario for SCTY, Tesla should pay no more than $332 million, or $3/share for SolarCity, which is 89% below the midpoint of the proposed price range…
    As noted when I put SolarCity in the Danger Zone in August 2015, the company’s revenue growth masks soaring profit losses.
    From 2013-2015, SolarCity burned through -$6.5 billion in cumulative free cash flow. Over the last twelve months alone, SCTY’s free cash flow is -$3.6 billion…
    The firm’s total debt, which includes off-balance sheet operating leases, has grown from $342 million in 2012 to $4 billion over the last twelve months…READ ALL
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2016/07/12/bailing-out-solarcity-costs-tesla-investors-7-4-billion/#7a823bc530c8

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  • #
    clipe

    But there was an important addition to her list of disadvantaged groups. She made a point of citing “white working-class boys” who are falling disastrously behind in the education system. (In fact, they do less well at school than they have in past generations and significantly less well than children from many ethnic minorities.)

    With that reference to the unfashionable white working class, who have been the most implicitly, and sometimes explicitly, reviled section of society in the great Tory modernisation revolution, she inaugurated a fresh idea of social conscience and a new direction for political reform.

    And even more interestingly, she seemed to tie in this determination to, as she put it, “address directly” the concerns of those people who were struggling (“just managing”) even though they were working all hours, with the result of the EU referendum. The real message of that result – she almost said exactly this – was that a whole swathe of the population saw itself as being the despised, forgotten detritus of the global gold rush.

    Blue-collar Conservatism is back

    .

    Thomas Sowell

    The November 9th-15th issue of the distinguished British magazine “The Economist” reports that, among children who are eligible for free meals in England’s schools, black children of immigrants from Africa meet the standards of school tests nearly 60 percent of the time — as do immigrant children from Bangladesh and Pakistan. Black children of immigrants from the Caribbean meet the standards less than 50 percent of the time.

    At the bottom, among those children who are all from families with low enough incomes to receive free meals at school, are white English children, who meet the standards 30 percent of the time.

    A Challenge to Our Beliefs

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    Egor TheOne

    Only the stupid and delusional believe in CAGW/CACC, and only lunatics and criminals continue to propagate this global scam!

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    el gordo

    We had a brief discussion on a previous thread about building a channel from Spencer’s Gulf to Lake Eyre and flood it with sea water.

    The idea was first mooted in 1883 but the government rejected the idea, putting it in the same basket as Plato’s canals of Atlantis.

    With modern technological know how and a tender process we could permanently fill Lake Eyre. What are the positives and negatives?

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    • #
      GrahamP

      This link answers most of the questions.

      http://www.k26.com/eyre/the_lake/ideas/fill_lake_eyre_/fill_the_lake.html

      An interesting proposition of little real use seems to be the conclusion.

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      • #
        el gordo

        It could be used for aquaculture and sailing, but more importantly would it generate precipitation?

        40

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          GrahamP

          In theory yes but it’s remoteness would likely make aquaculture uneconomic when the same aquaculture could be set up around Spencer Gulf.

          The ever increasing salinity would be a issue also.

          “after say 100 years, the Lake would contain 30 km3 salt instead of water.”

          The are plenty of places to go sailing much nearer population centres.

          The paper also claims:

          “As already mentioned, filling of the Lake will not increase the rainfall in central Australia. Spencer Gulf and the Red Sea, for example, have little if any effect on rainfall in the surrounding country.”

          I do not know if this assertion is correct or not.

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      • #
        Peter C

        One reason advanced for building the canal to Lake Eyre is that the evaporation would increase rainfall across the western parts of NSW, Queensland and Vic. The BOM says that would not happen due to prevalence of high pressure systems in the region.

        I did a check using Port Phillip Bay as a model. After excluding weather stations at altitude in the Dandenong ranges I found no difference in rainfall on the eastern side of the bay compared to the western side. So I tend to agree with the BOM.

        40

    • #
      Dennis

      It would ruin the habitat of the almost extinct green solar lizard

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      Graeme No.3

      There was also the Bradfield & Idress idea of dams on the coastal rivers in Qld. And diverting the flood waters into the interior rivers, hence down to Lake Eyre. They believed that the increase in arable land would generate enough to make the scheme possible. They allocated no place for Lake Eyre except as an evaporation basin, benefitting inland N.S.W. Mainly.
      Bradfield was the chief engineer for the Harbour Bridge.

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      • #
        Dennis

        The Liberal & National Coalition have a plan that they have been discussing since at least 2013 federal election to extend to Ord River Scheme at Kurunurra WA across the north through NT and FNQ to provide irrigation agriculture land. They want new dams built and the Newman LNP Qld Government removed wild river legislation to facilitate dam construction.

        The CSIRO studied the north years ago and stated that an area the size of Europe was ready for agricultural use, just add water. The dams would harvest some to the wet season rains and allow the rest to travel to sea normally, maybe with small hydro electricity stations in some.

        This huge project will take many decades to complete and will open the north to new population centres and infrastructure.

        The Coalition also wants new dams in other locations around Australia.

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    • #
      Dennis

      I believe that it is now possible, and governments pushing man-made climate change agenda and squandering taxpayer’s monies in the process are neglecting the people they are supposed to represent.

      40

      • #
        Dennis

        How many developed countries will follow Germany’s lead and ban green subsidies on inefficient renewables.

        30

    • #
      Ross

      Thanks for the link Neville.

      David / Jo –I am right thinking ,this ties in well with David’s work ?

      10

  • #
    toorightmate

    Bouquets to BOM this past week for getting the Central and Northern Queensland forecasts spot on.
    The Range at Rockhampton received 250 mm of rain. How much down your way Tony?

    30

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      Umm, lots and lots!

      The rain started on late Thursday, just steady at first, and then got heavier late Friday, and then heavier again on Saturday, all through the night. eased off to misty rain now, but more forecast.

      Friday – 13mm
      Saturday – 85mm
      Up to now, Midday Sunday – 137mm

      The Monthly total for July so far is 238mm, making it the wettest July on record. (previous record 1950 of 184mm)

      Tony.

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    Manfred

    Turkey’s last hope dies

    Anyone interested on the strategic consequences of the failed coup d’etat in Turkey, in which the secular preserving Turkish military failed to oust a President in the throes of turning himself into another Ghaddafi, and Turkey into an M state. And the EU worries about Brexit???

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      TdeF

      Turkey was the powerhouse of the Ottoman empire and the religious centre of the massive muslim empire when they conquered Egypt.

      Osama Bin Laden dreamed of being the next Caliph and his reference after 9/11 to 80 years was to the last Caliph being expelled from Istanbul. Egypt is a basket case and Iran an economically failing Theocracy. Erdogan can see himself as the new Caliph and his son appears to be funding ISIS by buying the stolen Iraqi oil and profiteering. The Russians destroyed a line of petrol tankers going to Turkey which is why they shot down a Russian jet. The battle between Turkey and Russia, Muslims sects and Christian sects continues as it has done for a thousand years. The Americans have no idea. They should trust the Russians who are on the front line.

      Putin saved the world by forcing the surrender by Assad of the 2,000 tons of ultra deadly Sarin nerve gas, which should be destroyed in factory ships by now, it could kill millions if atomized. This was the weapon of Mass Destruction passed from Saddam Hussein, spirited to the Assad regime in Syria during the US invasion. Thanks to Obama, it nearly feel into the hands of ISIS who were fighting the Assad regime! That is why Putin acted. Self preservation.

      Invented by Germany’s Farben, it is the poor man’s atom bomb and 80 times more deadly than their cyanide and 500x more deadly than their chlorine. Now people wonder why the US and UK invaded and say that weapons of mass destruction did not exist? In 1993 and 1994 it was outlawed and what remained in Iraq was destroyed by UN order, but clearly most crossed the border, maybe 50 tankers of the most deadly liquid in existence which only had one purpose.

      I guess governments are trying not to worry everyone. Gadaffi had his underground chemical weapons factories which he surrendered. Hussein too was boasting. So the 2,000 tons in Syria was just an oversight? Fell of the back of a hundred trucks? We are never told the whole truth.

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    It’s not just CO2 in the sights of the anti-human movement:

    Steve Milloy writes about More of EPA’s Frawdulent ‘Science’

    Not only did the EPA essentially invent the notion that PM2.5 kills, it has spent almost $600 million commissioning “scientific” research to prop up the claim. This has paid off for the regulation-happy EPA, as its PM2.5 claims have been instrumental in implementing President Obama’s so-called “war on coal.”

    But the EPA has a very big problem with PM2.5.

    The agency claims that the relatively low levels of PM2.5 in outdoor air are deadly and are responsible for as many as 20 percent of all U.S. deaths annually. But this claim is quite obviously contradicted on a daily basis by smokers and tokers.

    PM2.5 was also the core reason for “Dieselgate”. In an effort to control PM2.5 emissions to within EPA targets NOx emissions rose, not to be of actual health concern, but still at times in excess of the limits set by EPA and other regulators who blindly adopted the limit without reference to science. So VW and several other companies “cheated”; telling white lies about emissions. White lies like the ones to which they’ve become accustomed from activists and politicians.

    From my literature search, it seems that regulators have dropped the ball in ensuring that vehicle emissions aren’t actually harmful. Some vehicles which fly through Euro-6 testing without cheating turn out to fail the emissions standards of 20 years ago because they emit too much toxic carbon monoxide. Indeed, some would have failed in 1992.

    So the regulators have since about 1995, been ineffective at actually improving air quality for people; they’ve been arbitrarily and politically choosing emissions components to reduce, without a critical analysis of the health risks and benefits.

    To blame poor air quality in some cities on motor vehicles is like blaming spoons for the “epidemic in obesity”. Poor city planning and development inhibits the natural flushing of air of undesirable emission; not just from motor vehicle but from building, construction, cooking, street maintenance, etc.. If natural flushing isn’t going to be sufficient to clear the air of additional development, then the planners need to develop some other areas.

    As it stands, motor vehicle constructors are required to produce cars so clean that their emissions are cleaner than the air that they breathe in some cities. Cars with less than the latest emission controls are banned from some cities; but that makes no measurable difference to the air quality in those cities. Some of those are big cities, but the tens of millions of people in those places are a small proportion of the 6+billion living elsewhere.

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    Neville

    The climate mystic who also happens to be the head of the Bank of England thinks the world should waste up to 7 trillion $ a year down the drain to combat their CAGW.
    Watch out taxpayers here they come, smacking their chops and drooling in anticipation.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/07/16/bank-of-england-governor-mark-carney-climate-is-a-7-trillion-opportunity/

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      Mari C

      Opportunity for him, and his bank, he meant to say.

      Even a losing proposition is winning one for someone – just not the poor soul who has invested the money.

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    pat

    i posted the following on jo’s “Another great day…” thread:

    SMH: Piero Moraro: Younger citizens should have more votes than those over 60

    and commented:

    “as sure as night follows day, Fairfax was sure to find someone to write the following. will ABC & The Conversation follow suit?”

    ABC obliges with comedian Sami Shah standing in for Jonathan Green, tho i’m sure the segment was set up by the ABC producers:

    AUDIO: 15mins: 17 Jul: ABC Sunday Extra: One person one vote: time to reassess?
    The Brexit referendum showed young people overwhelmingly wanted the United Kingdom to remain part of Europe, but the current system of voting meant their future was strongly influenced by older voters.
    We look at the history of plural voting in the UK and around the world, and discuss whether a modern version should be considered as an alternative to improve democracy.
    Guest: Dr Piero Moraro, Political philosopher, centre for applied philosophy and public ethics, Charles Sturt University
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/sundayextra/one-person-one-vote-plural-voting/7628614

    this segment is followed by 17 minutes of “conservative” political satirist, PJ O’Rourke, ranting – as he has in recent weeks – about how he prefers to vote for Clinton over scary Trump, who can’t be trusted near the nuclear button blah blah.

    O’Rourke will be speaking at the rightwing think-tank, Centre for Independent Studies (CIS) in August.
    CIS had “conservative” Niall Ferguson in May:

    21 May: Australian: Helen Trinca: Our turbulent times: Niall Ferguson on Trump, Brexit and ISIS
    The British tabloids have never quite forgiven him for exiting Britain for the US in 2002 but he says he remains connected…
    Indeed, he will likely sit the exam for US citizenship this year and has no regrets at becoming involved in American life, even if he is alarmed at the possibility of a president Trump. So alarmed in fact he will probably endorse Hillary Clinton, despite the fact he has long been seen as pro-Republican.
    “For all her flaws, I think she would be a more predictable and much less disruptive force in the White House,” he says.
    Donald Trump instead is a “formidable demagogue” who “has a connection with a very big chunk of the electorate” but whose rhetoric is “toxic”…
    Worse still, Trump says he wants to “do a great deal with Putin”. “That really froze my blood,” Ferguson says. “The last thing we need is for the US to suddenly make friends with one of the most sinister figures in the international political system.”…
    The populism generated after the 2008 financial crisis is most obvious in the US this year but Ferguson says even Britain has a Trump, in the shape of former London mayor Boris Johnson.
    “It is very striking to come to Australia and find no Trump because most countries in the northern hemisphere have a Trump, not just the United States,” he says. “The UK has Boris Johnson — same hairstyle, same populism.”…
    The debate in Britain over quitting the EU — Brexit — also worries Ferguson, who is unforgiving towards its advocates…
    The economic consequences would be “seriously negative” for a country as reliant on inflows of foreign capital and an exit would threaten the City’s ­future as a financial centre…
    3 COMMENTS – ALL NEGATIVE TOWARDS ELITIST FERGUSON
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/our-turbulent-times-niall-ferguson-on-trump-brexit-and-isis/news-story/96331d9c02c25d043984b74d18dc119c

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    Peter C

    I have, in the past, been a fan of Niall Ferguson. However I read his article on why Britian should NOT leave the EU and found it quite unconvincing. Now he wants to vote for Hiliary. He seems to have forgotten some of his earlier opinions.

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    Rod Stuart

    Are there any Mens’ Shedders on Jo Nova?
    Trouble is brewing, and I regard the situation as being very similar to the Brexit.
    The Commonwealth’s interest in Mens’ Sheds began in 2007.
    It was a Gillard initiative in the Rudd government to advance the health of men by providing an environment in which men could talk about their problems. When you really think about it, it is a similar Leftist notion similar to the “safe space” that immature college students demand. I think it was just an excuse to find a way to pump money into the bank account of Gillard’s less than significant “other”. Remember Tim? She appointed him mascot for the Mens’ Shed Association.
    Things have gone along swimmingly with nearly a thousand of these organisations established and many of them very successful and worthwhile social clubs.

    Fundamentally there are three tiers of administration. The first is at the member organisation itself. These are to a large extent self-funded, through subscriptions, donations, productive activities and in the case of WA sometimes the Lottery Commission. These are tied together in the State associations. In WA it is WAMSA (West Australia Mens’ Shed Association) and in Tasmania TMSA (Tasmania Mens’ Shed Association). These are then connected together through AMSA (Australian Mens Shed Association). The existing constitution and bylaws make the individual organisations quite autonomous, with AMSA providing APRA approved insurance which is specific to the operation of these sheds. AMSA receives about five million a year from the Ministry of Health which is ostensibly allocated to the various State Associations for distribution to the local sheds.

    In a move which reminds me of the European Union, the board of directors has decided to change the constitution, and the by-laws, which in and of itself contrary to the existing constitution and by-laws. The change announced would appoint “business experts” to a board, chosen by the board itself. Other changes would require each shed to seek approval for any and all fund raising activities. Imagine, if you will having to apply to an un-elected, remote body for permission to hold a sausage sizzle at the local Bunnings. The intent is to make the entire scheme driven from the top by “experts” rather than the bottoms up organisation as it currently exists. As I understand it, the WAMSA in WA and VMSA in Victoria have held meetings in which the membership is declaring what is tantamount to a BREXIT from AMSA.
    The Ministry of Health budgets about $5 million to this mens’ health initiative. Under the proposed scheme, less than half of these funds would end up in the hands of the individual associations. More than half will be allocated to PR, board meetings, expense accounts for the board, accommodation for board members, travel expenses, etc. while the board meets at regular intervals. This can only be described as “jobs for the boys”.
    That is my opinion of the situation, which I admit may very well be biased by my “world view”. I am interested to find if other shed members are of the same opinion.

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      Hat Rack

      I am a member of a small MS in NSW which meets once a week. Having never been overly interested in such matters, I had no idea how the administrative side of the organisation was structured. Thank you for the explanation.

      I have seen a similar situation, to the one you describe above, before. A friend of mine was heavily involved with a small country charity. As the charity grew a “manager” was appointed to co-ordinate new branches as they sprang up. Continuing growth meant the manager soon needed a secretary. More growth and a small, city based bureaucracy started to form. Then a “directive” arrived from “Head Office” to say that all funds raised by local initiatives were to be deposited into an account controlled by “Head Office”. Turned out that when a charity handles a certain amount of money the general manager is entitled to a generous salary plus benefits under some award. My friend resigned in disgust.

      Rod, I share your alarm and will raise it with the locals ASAP.

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      Len

      I was in a discussion with a seniors lunch on Friday. In some cases, the feminists have changed the name from Mens’ shed to Community Sheds to be politically correct.
      The local leaders in the mens Sheds around here would not like to be controlled from Perth. Some old ex shire councillors probably won’t go along with the centralists plans.

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    tom0mason

    The Sun suddenly looks interesting again --

    Good for seeing aurora in the Southern hemisphere.

    A solar wind stream is expected to hit Earth on July 19th, and this could spark G1-class geomagnetic storms around the poles. High-latitude sky watchers should be alert for auroras, especially in the southern hemisphere where dark winter skies favor visibility of faint lights.

    Also there is sunspots –

    Solar activity has been low for months. This could change in the days ahead. Two big sunspot groups are directly facing Earth, and one of them has an unstable magnetic field that poses a threat for M-class solar flares.

    Better hope that that unstable spot does not cough anything this way or we’ll kiss goodbye to so much, including this interweb thingy…

    From http://www.spaceweather.com/

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    pat

    i’m not a fan of “helicopter money”, but worth reading all for those interested in the matter:

    14 Jul: ContraCorner: Helicopter Money——The Biggest Fed Power Grab Yet
    by David Stockman
    The Cleveland Fed’s Loretta Mester is a clueless apparatchik and Fed lifer, who joined the system in 1985 fresh out of Barnard and Princeton and has imbibed in its Keynesian groupthink and institutional arrogance ever since. So it’s not surprising that she was out flogging—-albeit downunder in Australia—- the next step in the Fed’s rolling coup d’ etat.

    “We’re always assessing tools that we could use,” Mester told the ABC’s AM program. “In the US we’ve done quantitative easing and I think that’s proven to be useful.
    “So it’s my view that [helicopter money] would be sort of the next step if we ever found ourselves in a situation where we wanted to be more accommodative.”

    This is beyond the pale because “helicopter money” isn’t some kind of new wrinkle in monetary policy, at all. It’s an old as the hills rationalization for monetization of the public debt—–that is, purchase of government bonds with central bank credit conjured from thin air…
    http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/helicopter-money-the-biggest-fed-power-grab-yet/

    this is an extended AM article. “Helicopter money” section not included in RN’s AM program version:

    15 Jul: ABC AM: Peter Ryan: Quantitative easing ‘useful’ when all else fails, says Fed official Loretta Mester
    Dr Mester’s cautious response to the helicopter money option follows recent comments from the Federal Reserve chair Janet Yellen that the measure could be used in “extreme situations”.
    Helicopter money is where stimulus is directly pumped into the real economy, not through the banking system, and discussion of it is increasing amid expectations that the Bank of Japan is poised to unleash a major fiscal stimulus package of at least 10 trillion yen ($130 billion) to kickstart its flat-lining economy…
    Dr Mester is visiting Australia on a speaking tour and spoke yesterday at a financial stability conference hosted by the University of Sydney Business School.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-13/quantitative-easing-useful-fed-official-mester/7623888

    haven’t watched the following as yet; will do so tonite, so not sure if “Helicopter moeney” is mentioned:

    VIDEO: 18mins17secs:14 Jul: ABC The Business: Extended interview with Loretta Mester
    The US Federal Reserve remains the biggest puppeteer in the market. Loretta Mester, Federal Reserve board member speaks with Elysse Morgan.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-14/extended-interview-with-loretta-mester/7630874

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    Analitik

    Whilst having lunch today after a car club economy run, one member of our table launched into a tirade against humanity as a “disease on the earth” that needed to wipe itself out. The doom of our race was pronounced as inevitable due to atmospheric CO2 levels having reached the “irreversible” levels of 400ppm in both the Northern and Southern hemispheres. Interestingly, the mechanism named for the oncoming disaster was a new ice age which would starve us into extinction.

    The rest of us kept our mouths closed (or full of food) and looked sage and serious until the oracle headed outside for a cigarette. Various comments were made at this point, politely but in firm disapproval of the manner and message.

    This individual owns 3 cars including a race car and flies around Australia for diving holidays…

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      Angry

      I would have gotten stuck into the bloody hypocrite………
      I hope they were driving an electric vehicle !

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    Wish you all the best! I do not understand your term ‘annihilates’. The concept still implies some generation of EM flux in a direction of higher field strength. Such has never been observed or measured. If you use the differential form of the S-B equation: Flux ∝ ε4&3963;T³ΔT

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    A renewable energy group say that a “climate denier”, Matt Canavan, is in charge of resources following Turnbull’s reshuffle.

    http://reneweconomy.com.au/2016/hunt-goes-in-energy-environment-merger-climate-denier-to-head-resources-58202

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