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India doesn’t commit to Paris: Media puts forward two versions of reality

Indian PM, Modi, has shaken hands and said nice phrases but India isn’t going to commit to Paris until they are ready (if ever). That’s a bit of a blow for the Paris agreement which has only 17 signatories of the 55 countries it needs. For the Paris agreement to come into effect it is also supposed to include countries that produce 55% of global emissions. Thanks to the GWPF for compiling some of the stories here.

There are two versions of reality out there in media-land. Some Media spins it as “success”:

India to work towards Paris climate pact

India-US Joint Statement- Climate: In halfway meeting, both nations come a long way

India Aims To Join Paris Climate Change Agreement This Year

And somewhere out there will be poor sods who aren’t paying attention, and think that India might actually reduce emissions. But instead of  megatons of carbon, they’ll be getting a “jolt of momentum”. Did you feel it? Me neither.

WASHINGTON — India has agreed to work towards joining the Paris Agreement on climate change this year, India and the United States said on Tuesday, giving a jolt of momentum to the international fight to curb global warming.

But the hard word is “No” — it didn’t happen, won’t happen this year, and was below expectations:

US to Ratify Paris Climate Pact This Year, No Timeline from India

India contradicts US claim over signing climate deal this year

The Hindu: India denies that it will ratify Paris Agreement this year

The Whitehouse statement contains these telling lines and the misleading use of “similarly”:

The United States reaffirms its commitment to join the Agreement as soon as possible this year. India similarly has begun its processes to work toward this shared objective.

By which we can definitely say that India has not done nothing. They have written a memo.

The sad thing is that people who want news need to read their newspaper like a legal contract. How much fun can you have spotting weasel words in the morning news?

Voice of America News

But, regarding en

ergy programs, critics note that India has committed to very little under the Paris agreement. They say much more will be needed from India and the rest of the world to keep the planet below the 2-degree threshold that scientists consider critical to Earth’s well-being.

…India plans 290 GW of new coal-fired capacity by 2030, according to a Climate Action Tracker report.

 BACKGROUND: What the Paris agreement needs to come into effect

The agreement, forged last year, will take effect when at least 55 countries representing 55 per cent of global emissions ratify it.

As of late last month 17 small countries had ratified the pact, according to the United Nations, and many others including the United States and China have pledged to ratify it in 2016.

Environmental groups had hoped Modi would say that India was ready to ratify the agreement during his Washington trip to cross that 55 per cent threshold.

 India has come a long way and is now aiming to move towards something, which was different from it’s previous position of random wandering.

 

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89 comments to India doesn’t commit to Paris: Media puts forward two versions of reality

  • #
    TdeF

    Never fear. Turnbull and Di Natale will embarass India, China and the UN by paying carbon taxes to the EU/UN via merchant banks.

    These giant countries will feel so bad about it because once again little Australia has shown them how to be taxed arbitrarily by unelected bankers and bureaucrats in Europe. They will be humiliated.

    If Turnbull and Di Natale fail at the election, Shorten and Di Natale stand ready to tax us anyway. Only by handing over our sovereignty and heaps of cash can the world be saved from terrible pollution by carbon dioxide. What the world needs are great backroom conspirators who have the courage to remove elected leaders.

    540

    • #

      The taxes are one thing, but the likes of Shorten want to reduce our carbon dioxide emissions to zero. Depending on what they consider carbon dioxide producers, it could mean shutting down Australia. Clearly the reality will be somewhere in-between, but how far will they allow our economy to collapse?

      270

      • #
        ROM

        Well there are around 23 million CO2 producers currently here in Australia and no doubt a lot more by 2050.

        Each of them puffs out a CO2 concentration of around 40,000 part per million of CO2 per breath, about 100 times the concentration found in the atmosphere and thats every time they breathe out every few seconds.

        Each day an average person breathes out around 500 litres of the greenhouse gas CO2 – which amounts to around 1kg in mass.

        So our current 23 million population breathes out nearly 8.4 million tonnes of CO2 each year.

        So Shorten if he really wants Australia to be a zero CO2 producer by 2050 he is going to have to carry out a total “carbon” eliminating Holocaust on the entire Australian population to get his Zero emmissions which he seems to have support for from the greens and climate change cultists.

        Outright blatant Stupidity reigns supreme which aligned with crass ignorance really defines Labour’s Shorten as a politician.

        And we haven’t even touched on the greens politicians yet.

        80

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        The terrible implication of reducing carbon dioxide emissions to zero is that it means kill off every living thing in Australia. Both animal and plant life produce carbon dioxide as a result of the metabolism they carry on in order to stay alive. Plants are a net consumer of the stuff when the sun is shining but they still produce it. At night they don’t have the ability to consume it so all they can do is produce it.

        I think someone should give these people a clue about carbon dioxide because their knowledge looks abysmally short of a full deck of cards with which to play the game of regulation.

        Just an article to show that I’m right in case there are any doubters in the audience. And yes, if you’r already in the know, the Internet is abysmally oblivious to this fact. Finding an honest treatise on the subject isn’t easy.

        As far as I can see, arguments that the natural sources of CO2 are always balanced out by something else are vagrant, that is, they have no visible means of support.

        Plant emissions of CO2 are not significant in the real world but they are there and to get to zero emission… …you gotta go after plants too.

        60

        • #

          What they are aiming for is zero emissions from industry etc, not natural forces (I doubt they could stem CO2 from volcanoes etc). The thing is, everything that we rely on for our existence will produce CO2; even solar panels, windmills, bicycle powered generators will generate CO2 somewhere in the process. That’s why it would be impossible to bring CO2 emissions to zero; but the real push is to kill off any power source that utilises any form of combustion process. That will have dire consequences.

          80

          • #
            Steve of Cornubia

            They know we can’t achieve zero emissions. The reality is, that’s not their objective. The purpose of all this is to maintain the TAXATION and SPENDING that is enabled by simply attempting to go carbon neutral.

            They could keep this up for decades, with the beautiful, green, zero carbon future getting no nearer. Meanwhile, the trillions of dollars raised for governments (and myriad rent-seekers on the Left) can be spent on their pet social engineering projects, and fund their ongoing control of government-funded research.

            Oh, and of course turning many of them into very, very rich people.

            120

            • #

              The ‘trillions’ of dollars will all go off-shore, so there’ll be nothing for pet projects in Australia. Unfortunately, this is another one of those proposals where very little thought appears to be given to the unintended consequences.

              70

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Shorton ideas will only do as hes told – these ideas are not his own, but from his globalist paymasters…

                Shorten ( like Turncoat ) is just the barrow boy at the market…..

                If you shut down industry by strangling it with mythology and taxation and creating an economic basket case….. you have…drum roll…Socialism!

                Welcome to the AUstralian Soviet!

                50

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              Surely they wouldn’t pull this nonsense only to get the leverage to allow them to increase taxes??? ;-)

              Any government I know of gives itself unlimited power to tax. So why bother? Maybe we need unlimited power to increase our income. We could rob banks or something. Or maybe we can just unelect them or force them out of office? I’m beginning to feel a little better about civil disobedience than I used to.

              10

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            What they are aiming for is zero emissions from industry etc, not natural forces (I doubt they could stem CO2 from volcanoes etc).

            Bemused,

            And so they are. But that makes as much sense as what I proposed, meaning none whatsoever. They will kill the Australian economy before they ever achieve their goal. So they might as well make a clean sweep of it and go for broke — get rid of everything and be done with it.

            20

        • #
          Ted O'Brien.

          “someone should give these people a clue about carbon dioxide”.

          Roy, the Marxist Whitlam government (late 1972-1975) decreed that every Australian had the right to a university education, with the fees paid by the government.

          This greatly increased the numbers attending university and substantially reduced the quality of students attending. It also allowed them to appoint their political mates to the new teaching positions that were created. And It also greatly lowered the standards required to get a satisfactory proportion of students graduating.

          As a result a great many shonky degrees were issued, shonky both in the standard of education and in the quality of the courses. Including courses which are obsessed with the number 97.

          20

    • #
      John Michelmore

      Wait a minute I thought that if we returned Australia back to the stone age era, without manufacturing and most of the people, the world would be saved from climate change. Are you saying my sacrifices to achieve the above are in vain? Oh No, I’ve been misled!!

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      • #

        Australia total CO2 emissions expressed as a percentage of total World CO2 emissions is 1.3%

        The Coalition target of a 28% reduction over the next 15 years is totally and utterly wiped out by China in 11 weeks.

        The Labor target of 50% is wiped out by China in 19 weeks.

        The Greens target of zero emissions is wiped out by China in 7 Months.

        And that’s just using China’s electrical power sector emissions.

        Tony.

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  • #
    Roy Hogue

    The United States reaffirms its commitment to join the Agreement as soon as possible this year. India similarly has begun its processes to work toward this shared objective.

    You cannot believe a single syllable of that statement from the White House. And what actually happens here depends on who we elect in November.

    Oh, the terrible uncertainty of it all… :-(

    I don’t know words sufficiently strong enough to mock Paris to my satisfaction. But I wish it utter failure.

    360

  • #

    We street-level Americans don’t even know what “the US will ratify it” means, because everything for the last 8 years has been because “Obama wants it”.

    India is afraid of calling Obama a liar–they only deny what his administration is putting out about them–but I’m not. My tiny part of the US (which is mostly my mind) will not ratify the climate accord this or any other year. And any who think as I do about this will not forget what the “leaders” do this year.

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    • #
      Joe Lalonde

      Funny how the phrase…”Peddling Fiction” seem to come from the Obama Administration on us low-life deniers…

      80

    • #
      diogenese2

      Few people appreciate how much the whole history of CAGW is bound to US Presidential politics and the motives of Bush at Rio 1992, Gore at Kyoto 1997, Obama at Copenhagen 2009 and Paris 2015, three proceeding and one following Presidential elections. These definitive events (both meetings and elections) shaped the historical growth and development of the narrative and the latest heralds its decease fuelled by the need to provide a legacy for this towering intellect;

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RczG-uTBplc

      Indeed it could be said that the blueprint for this mans election was drawn up in 1979;

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bow1ZJTV4L4

      I think now that whatever the result of the coming election the outcome will be the same. Both President Trump or President Clinton will abandon the Paris agreement as, lead by India (with China in the background), the developing nations demand enormous danegeld for their compliance and the USA will turn its attention inward to its own interests.
      The Donald has no interest in it and for The Hilary it will have served its purpose and be of no further use.

      70

  • #

    Both the PM and the Qld. Premier want the Adani (Indian) coalmine to go ahead and Dr.Di Natali doesn’t. Without our coal exports we have an enormous budget problem to pay for our bloated bureaucracy of replicated government departments at the state and federal levels.

    In this case there is a chance that Adani may walk away due to the long and twisted approval process and legal obstruction. This is what the greens want to save the GB Reef from global warming and damage by shipping, but there is plenty of coal in Kalimantan and just as close to India.

    We seem to talk the talk on carbon abatement, Paris etc., but when it comes
    to coal exports it’s another story.

    90

    • #
      PeterPetrum

      After having worked in India over many years recently and seen the abject poverty of so many, it is clear that the availability of power at reasonable prices will make a huge difference to, literally, millions. Kids who are lucky enough to go to school will be able to study at night, as there will be lighting. People who need power to run a small manufacturing business will be able to do so. There is no way India is in the slightest bit interested in slowing down this transition. And why should they.

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      • #
        redress

        Hi Peter…..I completely agree with you……

        having been to India 3 times in the last few years, there is no way India will sign, because of the reasons you mention and because there is a deep seated skepticism of anything labeled as “green politics”. Also China is on their door step, and they are well aware of the problems they could face from that quarter, unlike Australia….destroying their evolving economy will not help them become strong enough to stand up to China…or Pakistan for that matter….they have more important things to worry about than, as they see it, a non existant problem.

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    • #
      TdeF

      Quite apart from the absurd idea that CO2 is ‘pollution’, that without any proof at all slightly higher temperature over 100 years and slightly higher CO2 is someone’s fault and again without proof that it is a bad thing, nothing else makes sense either.

      As economics writer Terry McCrann points out, Green leader GP Di Natale wants only to stop all coal mining but definitely not other mining. As our other big export is iron ore, which requires coal, it doesn’t even make sense. We can sell iron ore but not the coal? It just mean they use someone else’s coal. We used to be the world’s biggest exporter of coal, up to 50%. Now Indonesia has matched us and we are down to 25%. It is no wonder with geniuses like the Greens.

      The motivation behind shutting coal power generation in SA and the Gas turbine in the Tamar river valley which brought both states to their knees when coal power from Victoria stopped is obviously their core belief that CO2 is somehow a local pollutant. So if we do not sell coal or especially burn it ourselves or make steel, we are fine. It’s all so illogical.

      Then what the Chinese do is irrelevant but we can save ourselves? There are no walls. That is the point surely of taxing Australians and tiny New Zealand to save China? If the journalists had any science themselves, Di Natalie would be ridiculed like Tony Abbott was but it doesn’t happen. DiNatalie is taken seriously when laughter should erupt.

      Even sillier, less than 2% of the world’s CO2 is produced in Australia so 98% of our extra CO2 comes from overseas! Why then do our politicians want us to pay tax the ‘polluters’ for our CO2? We should be collecting tax from the rest of the world. The EU for example is equal to the US in CO2 production so they should be sending money to us.

      Dr Di Natalie, why not legislate for the EU to pay us? We can issue carbon credits for cash and plant a lot more trees or water the desert with their money. All Australians would vote for that plan. Carbon tax the Indians and the Chinese. It’s fair. Just demand their cash for the damage they are doing to our extreme events. Somehow.

      190

      • #

        Just looking at the AEMO data a few minutes ago: Consumption is 24,000 MW and increasing to about 26,000 MW, Fossil fuel generation is 22,000 MW, Hydro is 2,000 MW and will to about 4,000 MW, Wind is a bit below 2,000 MW and Solar is 000 MW.

        OK lets cut the fossil fuel generation by half ( Labor’s policy); this leaves a deficit of 26,000 minus 11,000+ 4,000+ 2,000 = 9,000 MW. So solar doesn’t do anything between 4 pm. and 9 am. so its 9,000 MW extra from wind. At the moment with the frontal systems they are producing at 50% capacity, but let’s plan on 25%; thus 36,000 MW of Wind turbines and somewhere between 18,000 and 25,500 sq. km. of land and 12,000 three MW units. Metro Sydney plus Melbourne is 20,000 sq. km.

        What happens when the wind drops and their production drops to 10%, that is 3,600 MW? This is a frequent event and means a deficit of 9,000 minus 3,600 MW or 5,400 MW. So it means blackouts or another 6 gas turbine stations of 1000 MW to keep the lights on. But, were not going to replace fossil fuel generation with clean renewable energy?

        130

        • #
          TdeF

          Not according to Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews who wants 50% renewables as well. He is getting school students to turn lights out when possible. This will allow him to close Yallourn, our major power source from brown coal. This will devastate Victoria but he says that otherwise the results would be ‘much, much worse’. How he knows this is beyond logic.

          This is the same man who had to pay $1Bn to cancel a road contract which in his election platform was supposedly not worth the paper it was written on. No one even knows who benefits from not building a vital link under a cemetery taking 40,000 cars a day off narrow streets? His own committee this week recommended it as the best solution for Melbourne traffic!

          This week he tried to hand 60,000 volunteers to his union firefighting friends, so they would have to pay $600 each for the right to risk their lives fighting fires. That’s $36Million in Union fees which would feed his party. That agreement is so wrong it is currently deemed illegal. Now our future is in the hands of school children. Still, they might be smarter than Daniel.

          100

      • #

        TdeF you should know better. Not all coals are the same. Australia has some of the best coking coal in the world (low ash, low sulphur, strong coking properties, good fluidity etc). Indonesian coal has mostly little or no coking properties. It has similarities to the Blair Athol coal described in the publication Queensland Coal as “medium-high volatile, bituminous, low rank, weak coking, steam coal”. Indian coal is mainly high ash steaming coal. They have to import coking coal. It is unlikely that Adani will walk away. China has a great variety of coal but has little or no coking near its eastern boundary. The Datong coal is a good quality steam coal. There is a saying “oils ain’t oils” but oils can be refined and treated. One can “wash” coals to reduce the ash but can not change a low rank coal to a high rank coal. The Adani coal will be washed to mainly produce a high quality coking coal of 6-8% ash. A middling fraction of about 16% ash will be sold as a steaming coal. USA and Canada are other exporters of coking coal. In Europe Poland mines coking coal.

        80

        • #
          TdeF

          Interesting. Thanks. Still the rapid growth of Indonesia has seen us lose market share and people are looking elsewhere, for now. The Lawfare is stopping them, as it is intended. Our courts function so slowly that it takes years to get anything approved against even minor opposition. However those people who argue that Adani would go to Kalimantan for his coal are wrong by your statements. (e.g. Robert O. at #4) Adani needs to make steel, not electricity.

          30

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Dinatales comments make sense if your ultimate aim is to turn australia into a flaccid hamster of a country…..

        21

        • #
          Analitik

          No, were supposed to set the example for the lesser developed nations to follow.

          They will see us deindustrializing down to their level and then they will follow us down to subsistence farming. That makes sense, right?

          30

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            I cant see it happeneing…peopel aer dumb, yes, but even the dumbest of people eventually realise they have ceased being citizens are started becoming serfs and slaves to the eco-Politburo. Once living conditions start to slide into 2nd world people will wake up. Then the powers that be either have to choose to kill most of the population ( which ironically the infamous Georgia Guidestones advocate a 95% reduction in humans planet wide ) , or try and maintain some form of mass hypnosis. My money is on forulating WW3 , so huge numbers are killed off in “benevolent” war….benevolent only to the genocidal Elites who are incurably sick in the head….

            10

  • #
    Gordon

    Good for India!! Enough of this nonsense.

    130

    • #
      King Geo

      Both China and India are very smart. In reality they don’t want a bar of this “de-carbonisation” nonsense. Outwardly they will say the “diplomatic feel good things” but they no full well that “de-carbonisation” is a pathway to “economic self destruction”. I mean you only have to look at the “dysfunctional EU Economy” to realize that.

      40

  • #
    Owen Morgan

    “India-US Joint Statement- Climate: In halfway meeting, both nations come a long way”

    Watch out for that Zika virus in the South Atlantic, guys! Does that mean Canada is an island now?

    40

  • #
    graphicconception

    Rules of Diplomacy:

    If a diplomat says Yes, he means Maybe.
    If he says Maybe, he means No.
    If he says No, he is no diplomat!

    120

    • #
      Owen Morgan

      If he says “No,” he’s probably a eurocrat, responding to twenty-seven million “Yes” votes.

      100

    • #
      Another Ian

      Remember the description of a diplomat?

      “Too little to fight and too fat to run”

      30

  • #
    Ruairi

    Apparently,few countries show much zeal,
    Or real commitment to the Paris deal.

    110

  • #
    David S

    The reality is both China and India have no intention of reducing CO 2 emissions. Unlike the political classes in places like Canada, Australia and EU they are not that stupid. It’s amazing how many people in have been inflicted with this AGW insanity which has compelled them to place massive shackles on their economies in a misguided exercise in futility.

    130

  • #
    Manfred

    Why would anyone, anywhere sign up to keeping kept down? There might be some transient political gain, a round of applause at the UN, perhaps even 30 pieces of silver. But the people wherever they are will push back.

    Witness the consequences of EU Green policies in Africa: EU Parliament: stop ‘aid’ funding billions to agribusiness in Africa. (from Bishop Hill)

    The European Parliament today called on the Commission and member states like the UK to stop funding the ‘New Alliance’ plan to force export-oriented agribusiness onto Africa. Instead they want support for small-scale family farms and agroecology.

    and what does the munificent EU want instead:

    “Instead, both donors and national governments should invest in a model of agriculture which is sustainable, pro-smallholder farming, pro-women, and which unlocks the potential of domestic and regional markets so as to benefit family farmers and provide quality food for consumers at accessible prices …

    Another Mugabe-esque agro-economic triumph in the making? It hardly matters. As sanctioned by the UN Post 2015 Development Agenda where there is an emphasis on the importance of sport, we’ll be continuing to play cricket with them, so all will be well.
    The tragedy is that Africa could become a hugely prosperous granary to the World.

    60

  • #
    RobK

    The United States reaffirms its commitment to join the Agreement as soon as possible this year. is not the same as “The United States will join the Agreement this year.” It just says the reaffirmation is this year.

    50

    • #
      RobK

      And just in case you don’t think that’s the correct interpretation the Whitehouse statement clarifies any ambiguity by saying:”India similarly has begun its processes to work toward this shared objective.”

      40

  • #
    el gordo

    The Sweetener

    ‘The two countries are expected to announce a military logistics deal that would allow their forces to help each other with crucial supplies, and the United States is expected to agree to allow India to receive military technology usually reserved only for its closest allies.’

    New York Times

    60

    • #
      el gordo

      But wait… the Paris Agreement is only rhetoric, India gets US backing and new technology to defeat its old enemy.

      ‘Without naming Pakistan, he commended the U.S. Congress “for sending a clear message to those who preach and practice terrorism for political gains. Refusing to reward them is the first step towards holding them accountable for their actions.” Modi wants New Delhi and Washington to work together to isolate “those who harbor, support and sponsor terrorists, that does not distinguish between ‘good’ and ‘bad’ terrorists, and that delinks religion from terrorism.”

      The Diplomat

      50

  • #
    Louis Hissink

    Just a short note – kill coal mining you will also kill iron mining because in order to make steel, which is an alloy of iron and carbon, you need coal.

    No steel means no machines, which means no industrial civilisation.

    140

    • #

      OMG! How could people be so stupid? So you are saying that when “they” stop mining coal for power generation, they will forget that it is also needed for steel. The mining industry really is full of fools!

      33

      • #
        el gordo

        In fact all Australian politicians are fools, not the mining industry.

        50

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          My hopeis we could impress upon the GG to sack the current lot ( or the next lot ) … its been done once, it can be done again….

          20

          • #
            el gordo

            Career politicians are untrustworthy, so we require a charismatic individual to burst onto the scene and upset political correct thinking.

            Donald Trump comes to mind.

            10

      • #
        ianl8888

        …. sigh

        You are clueless here – there are a number of utilised technologies for “thermal” coal to be used for steel manufacture. This is dependant on the quality characteristics of the specific coal seams and the quality of designed steel end product.

        And when high-end coking coal is used to reduce iron ore for high-end steel manufacture, CO2 is still a by-product.

        You keep doing this – running low-end sarcasm on things you know nothing about. My view of you as not-very-bright remains.

        70

        • #
          • #
            Louis Hissink

            The Greens on the ABC Q&A this past monday stressed they wanted only to close the coal mining industry, not all mining, and categorically said they did not want to close the iron ore industry.

            Unfortunately killing the coal industry will do precisely that since you can’t make steel without coal. And carbon sequestration won’t work as one has the slight difficulty of having to reduce CO2 into C to then create new CO2 in the steel making process.

            The Greens are simply barking mad. Whether the other CO2 freaks want to be lumped with the barking greens is up to them, of course.

            70

      • #
        M Conroy

        Gee Aye – when all the ecomeanie crowing is about “ending coal mining” and “another coal mine SHUT DOWN” yes, they appear to have not bothered to think about steel production. Among other things. Because it isn’t the “not using coal” that is being glorified, it is the -closing- of the mines. No more coal!! YIPPEE!

        10

  • #
    AndyG55

    OT.. BP Energy review now out.

    http://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/energy-economics/statistical-review-of-world-energy.html

    I like to see where Australia stands on coal production.

    Still 4th, we have climbed back above Indonesia, but now India has overtaken us.

    Fossil fuels still doing around 97% of the heavy lifting. :-)

    80

  • #
    Neville

    Meanwhile Obama’s own EIA report ( May 2016) tells us that Co2 emissions will increase by 34% by 2040. See page 3 at the link. Obama is shown to be hopelessly wrong using his own EIA.
    Dr Hansen told us the unenforceable Paris COP 21 is a fra-d and BS. In the past he also called a belief in renewable energy as akin to believing in fairy stories. And Dr Hansen is the father of their CAGW. When are they going to wake up?

    60

  • #
    Steve of Cornubia

    Please remember that the various government-sponsored gravy trains, ploughing trillions of dollars into a multitude of (always) Leftist programs, be it climate change, indigenous rights, domestic violence, saving whales, gender equality, gay rights, teaching schoolkids about anal sex……..etc, etc – operate on, and are in reality fuelled by, SEEMING to be doing something. Actual results and real progress don’t matter, nor do negative consequences (provided of course the consequences don’t include loss of funding). All that matters is ensuring that there SEEMS to be a problem, then appearing to care, appearing to have the answers, appearing to have a plan. Just do those things and the money will keep flowing.

    So, the good news is that India SEEMS to be doing something.

    100

  • #
    handjive

    asli bijli (real electricity) – via notrickszone

    “The article describes how a village in India had been without electrical power for more than 30 years, and longed to get back on the grid.

    Greenpeace decided to use the village as an example to the world to showcase how communities can do just fine on renewable energy.

    Greenpeace India set up a “solar-powered micro-grid” to power the village and it was paraded before the media as a success.

    The whole world should follow Bihar’s example, Greenpeace and renewable energy activists bellowed.

    The project reaped lots of praise from the global elitists, and probably won lots of awards.”

    But

    The citizens of Bihar aren’t happy with part-time modernity.

    The India Today article goes on to describe how Bihar citizens “want asli bijli (real electricity) from the government” and that village youngsters were carrying placards demanding “real source of energy“, and “not the fake solar powered” one.
    ~ ~ ~
    What’s It Like To Live Without Electricity? Ask An Indian Villager

    January 26, 2015: Energy-hungry India doubles down on coal

    UN green climate fund can be spent on coal-fired power generation

    80

  • #
    handjive

    Meanwhile, at the home of “Academic rigour and journalists flair” …

    But despite its insidious influence on the climate and our health, coal …
    ~ ~ ~
    The UN denies this ‘academic rigour’:

    United Nations Links Affordable Energy to Quality of Life

    The graph at the foot of the page clearly shows the benefits of coal generated electricity, contrary to the ‘journalistic flair’ displayed.

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    • #

      Hey, who would have thought eh!

      Handjive, great article nice find. Should be required reading for everyone.

      It says that up to half the World’s population lacks access to PROPER energy, and that’s 3.5 Billion people. That’s not just NO access to electricity, but access that we take so much for granted.

      The article mentions that a typical U.S. citizen consumes 5 times the World Average, 10 times the Chinese average, and 20 times the Indian average. In Australia, it would be around the same as for the American citizen, as it would be wherever there is a constant regular supply, most of the Developed World, and that only comes about because of access to large scale constant power.

      Now that we’ve had it for so long, who are we to deny them that same access we have.

      Then, at the bottom of the article it mentions this.

      At the same time, today’s efficient coal-fueled electric generating plants also reduce carbon dioxide emission by up to 25 percent compared to older coal plants. Replacing a single, large coal plant with advanced 21st Century coal technology can reduce carbon dioxide emissions rates by the equivalent of taking a million cars off the road.

      China is doing that, and India is now doing it too.

      Tony.

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    pat

    8 Jun: UK Telegraph: Jillian Ambrose: National Grid emergency blackout costs spiral a further £113m
    National Grid’s plans to resuscitate the electricity system in the event of a nationwide blackout have spiralled from £17.5m to almost £150m after aging coal plants were offered a deal to “keep warm” in case of an emergency.
    The system operator will face the energy regulator this summer to explain why its so-called “black start” plans will cost £113m more than Ofgem agreed, amid rising criticism from the industry that the plants are being overpaid in response to the UK’s looming threat of blackouts.
    National Grid put in place the costly plans – which are ultimately paid for by consumers on their energy bills – to ensure that coal plants at SSE’s Fiddlers Ferry and the Drax site are available to kick-start the power grid if the UK is plunged into a catastrophic blackout.
    Most power plants require some power from the grid to restart their own generation systems meaning the UK would be left in the dark without plants that can generate their own power to “keep warm” and restart on demand…
    National Grid said the “cost and benefit of these contracts” was assessed alongside the consequences of not having the deals in place…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/08/national-grid-emergency-blackout-costs-spiral-a-further-113m/

    no surprise:

    9 Jun: ClimateChangeNews: Megan Darby: EU energy chiefs favouring fossil fuel lobbyists, says report
    The Paris climate agreement signals a global transition from fossil fuels to clean energy.
    Yet since adopting the deal, senior EU officials have continued to favour traditional energy majors with their time, according to analysis from Corporate Observatory Europe (CEO).
    Commissioners Miguel Arias Canete and Maros Sefcovic had six times as many encounters with fossil fuel interests as renewables or energy efficiency advocates, meeting records show.
    That is skewing policy towards a dependence on high carbon infrastructure, CEO campaigner Pascoe Sabido told Climate Home…
    The Commission declined to comment on CEO’s analysis.
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2016/06/09/eu-energy-chiefs-favouring-fossil-fuel-lobbyists-says-report/

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      Analitik

      Re black starting the UK grid.

      One of the purposes of the Dinorwig (Electric Mountain) pumped storage plant is to act as a black start site for the UK grid. As such, you would presume that even though it was also used to store up excess nuclear power during the night to help balance the evening demand peak, they would retain enough capacity after the peak to be able to function for black start.

      I wonder if it is not being mentioned in the article because it is being emptied more than previously due to increased usage to balance wind and solar intermittency?

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    Analitik

    OT for Queenslanders (and others who care)
    Submissions for the 50% Renewable Energy target for Queensland to the Queensland Renewable Energy Expert Panel CLOSE TODAY

    You do not need to write a 20 page document like TonyfromOz (great if you can, though).

    Register and express your doubts/concerns/disapproval/objection if you have not already done so.

    http://www.qldrepanel.com.au/issues-paper

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    TdeF

    You have to admire the Chinese negotiators. Obama trumpeted an historic deal where they agreed to urgently do absolutely nothing until 2030 when their CO2 levels naturally peaked and then definitely look at it again. Now that’s great politics. A win win.

    Even better, at COP21 the Chinese government joined the ranks of hungry recipients of carbon cash for reparations for ‘historic damage’. That’s clever. At the same time they are actually receiving carbon cash for building hydro schemes which they were building anyway. Surely the Indians can just copy this gameplan and play victim. Agree with everything in the long term and ask for cash now for the freely admitted damage to the planet over the last 100 years when it was so much cooler. How much is 0.8C worth? Trillions.

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    pat

    a must-read…even the US hasn’t committed to anything:

    9 Jun: BusinessStandardIndia: Nitin Sethi: Domestic compulsions prompt India, US to stop short of Paris agreement ratification
    Neither the US nor India has committed to a formal ratification of the Paris agreement by the end of 2016 in the much-hyped joint statement on climate change. The political imperatives before outgoing US President Barack Obama, domestic legal requirements in India and the procedural complications of the Paris agreement collectively ensured that the two didn’t.
    The statement, issued during Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Washington, reads: “The United States reaffirms its commitment to join the Agreement as soon as possible this year.” The US has shied from using the word ‘ratification’, as it would require approval from the US senate, which President Obama is unlikely to secure from the Republican citadel…
    ***Consequently, the joint statement reads, “India similarly has begun its processes to work toward this shared objective.” Indian negotiators insisted upon this insertion to replace the single and asymmetric sentence that the US had offered, binding only India to ratification by the end of this year, sources told Business Standard…
    For the US, a ratification of a non-trade agreement necessarily requires approval from the Senate, which President Obama is keen to avoid. But other terms, which provide options for the US President to adopt the agreement through an executive order, also leave the door open for the future US Presidents to walk out…READ ALL
    http://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/domestic-compulsions-prompt-india-us-to-stop-short-of-paris-agreement-ratification-116060901309_1.html

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    el gordo

    ‘Scientists say they have demonstrated a foolproof way of sequestering atmospheric carbon dioxide — turning it into rock.’

    Oz

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      AndyG55

      FFS..

      Leave the darn CO2 in the atmosphere.

      WHERE IT BELONGS and is

      ABSOLUTELY BENEFICIAL TO ALL LIFE ON EARTH.!!

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    pat

    for analysis by TonyfromOz & other interested parties:

    ABC darling Tim Buckley has a story I can find nowhere else re the cancellation of four new coal plants.
    he also finishes his piece with a porkie:

    10 Jun: Renew Economy: Tim Buckley: India cancels four major new coal plants in move to end imports
    (Tim Buckley is Director of Energy Finance Studies at the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis IEEFA)
    The plans previously called for four ultra mega power plants (UMPP) across Chhattisgarh, Karnataka, Maharashtra and Odisha, but these are now to be cancelled due to lack of interest from the host states…
    For 2016/17, the Ministry of New and Renewable Energy (MNRE) has set the highest ever capacity addition target for the clean power sector, that being up to 16,660 megawatts (MW). Of this, the solar installs target is set at 12GW, wind at 4GW, biomass power at 400MW, small scale hydro-electricity at 250MW and waste-to-power at 10MW…
    At this stage Indian Energy Minister Piyush Goyal is still persevering with plans for three new UMPP that, if awarded, would add a combined 12GW of new coal fired power generation capacity across Cheyyur in Tamil Nadu, Behabahal in Odisha & Banka in Bihar by 2020…
    In May 2016, S.D. Dubey, chairman of the Central Electricity Authority, announced the plans to close up to 37GW of antiquated, heavily polluting subcritical coal plants, stating: “Our first concern is emissions … We also want plants to be more efficient in use of resources.” This 37GW is equal to 20% of India’s current coal fired power fleet, or 12% of the total system capacity of 303GW…
    ***In his meeting with President Obama, Prime Minister Modi also confirmed India will ratify the Paris Climate Agreement this year.
    http://reneweconomy.com.au/2016/india-cancels-four-major-new-coal-plants-in-move-to-end-imports-27494

    following suggests plants won’t be shut down, but rather upgraded:

    June 19 Issue: BusinessTodayMagazine: Anilesh S Mahajan: “We can tell the world that India is now power surplus”: Piyush Goyal
    Q: There are 32-GW capacities which may retire by 2022. Most of these belong to PSUs and state governments. What will be the impact of this?
    ***PIYUSH GOYAL: There is no retirement commitment as such for these old plants. But I am trying to replace these old inefficient plants with new and modern power plants. This is a work in progress…A complete analysis of the requirements in the areas and the cost required to upgrade these plants needs to be done. We may decommission some of these plants and use the land for some other purpose…
    http://www.businesstoday.in/magazine/features/we-can-tell-the-world-that-india-is-now-power-surplus/story/233128.html

    8 May: Livemint: Bloomberg: Rajesh Kumar Singh: India seeks to shut 12% of power capacity in anti-pollution move
    India plans to shut aging coal-fired power plants with a combined capacity of 37 gigawatts to cut emissions and reduce the use of fuel and water.
    The plants are more than 25 years old and have turned uneconomical, said S.D. Dubey, chairman of the Central Electricity Authority, the planning wing of the power ministry. They will be replaced by super-critical units, which are more efficient, at the same sites, he said, without giving a timeline.
    http://www.livemint.com/Industry/QkD9eo3lrSVj1sxV3ubB9K/India-seeks-to-shut-12-of-power-capacity-in-antipollution.html

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      Note where pat mentions this: (my bolding here)

      …..is still persevering with plans for three new UMPP that, if awarded, would add a combined 12GW of new coal fired power generation capacity across Cheyyur in Tamil Nadu, Behabahal in Odisha & Banka in Bihar by 2020…

      See the problem here.

      Three plants 12GW, so 4GW (average) per plant.

      A very large scale Solar PV plant is 100MW, and in fact that’s a huge solar plant.

      So now, just to equal the Nameplate alone, you need to 30 of those huge solar plants.

      And because the actual power delivery (Capacity Factor) of the solar plants is barely 20% at best, and with those huge coal fired plants at 80% PLUS, then that’s four times the power delivery, so that now means 120 of those solar plants, (at least) just to equal the power delivery total.

      One large scale coal fired plant. 120 Solar Plants, and while the total power delivery ‘might’ be the same, the coal fired plant delivers the power on tap, 24/7/365, and the solar plants deliver their power for barely 4 hours a day on average.

      ONE coal fired power plant. – 120 Solar Plants.

      Now you tell me which selection the normal thinking person may make.

      Tony.

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        pat

        TonyfromOz -

        many thanks for the response.
        now if only you had a weekly column in a major newspaper.

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    pat

    more power to you, India:

    6 Jun: Times of India: Priyanka Kakodkar: Power for all reality by 2019: Piyush Goyal
    Union Minister of State for Coal, Power, New & Renewable Energy, Mr. Piyush Goyal has declared that the the road map is ready for ensuring 24×7 affordable power for all…
    In the last two years we have added another 60,000 Mw capacity, i.e. 20% of all the capacity that was added over the 65 years period” he added. He said the Prime Minister’s assurance of ‘Power For All’ would become a reality by 2019, instead of the original target of 2022…
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Power-for-all-reality-by-2019-Piyush-Goyal/articleshow/52618598.cms

    26 May: BusinessStandardIndia: Shreya Jai: Piyush Goyal: Work, ideas and targets
    On the plus side, state-owned Coal India has ramped up annual production to 536 million tonnes and the ministry has also conducted the first ever e-auction of coal blocks to the private sector. Solar power saw the highest ever capacity addition to 6,762 Mw and wind power regained capacity of 3,500 Mw after two years. Around 2 Gw of solar projects were commissioned in FY16, about $0.2 billion of investment. Total wind power projects commissioned were 3.6 Gw, an investment of $2.1 bn.
    http://wap.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/piyush-goyal-work-ideas-and-targets-116052600021_1.html

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    pat

    a final, staggering, piece on the number of mines…and growing. go protest that, McKibben & Co:

    14 May: BusinessStandard: Land, green clearances behind Coal India’s success
    by Avishek Rakshit & Shreya Jai
    Coal India achieved a staggering production of 536.51 million tonnes (mt) during the financial year ended March 31, 2016…
    Coal India grew by 8.6 per cent in the last financial year, compared with 6.9 per cent growth in 2014-15. It has 431 operational mines with plans for further expansion. The average life of a mine is 30 years.”We established an institutional approach to work with the ministries to get necessary clearances,” Swarup said adding, “There was not a single case where any regulation was bypassed. We just fast-tracked the process.”…
    http://wap.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/land-green-clearances-behind-coal-india-s-success-116051400760_1.html

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    Ted O'Brien.

    No Unthreaded yet?

    Just had a glance at trump.com. So further inquiry needed to verify, but there is an incredible number of major properties, sufficient to make one ask who is his bank manager. And then there is this gem:

    “Mr. Trump rebuilt the Wollman Skating Rink (now the Trump Rink) in Central Park. This project was particularly special to Mr. Trump. The city had been trying for seven years to rebuild and restore the Rink, whereupon Mr. Trump interceded and restored the rink in four months at only $1.8 million of the City’s $20,000,000 cost.”

    How true or false? If true, that’s the kind of thing we want to hear.

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