JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks

The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper


Advertising

micropace


GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



Archives

Books

Countdown to Brexit — Britain’s Independence Day?

Best wishes to our UK friends on this important day. UPDATE: Polls shut at 10pm on Thursday UK time (7am Friday AEST). Final Tally: “breakfast time” Friday in the UK ( which is  4- 6pm on the East Coast of Australia).

“… it’s the last chance most of us are ever going to get in our lifetime to vote for an outcome which is genuinely in the interest of us the people – the demos – rather than that of the increasingly powerful, ever-more-deeply-entrenched elite.”

James Delingpole

The British Isles Invented Freedom

“… the people of what is now called Great Britain created something entirely different from the closed and centralized regimes that have been the norm in most of human history. They produced a society where rulers were subject to the law and the law belonged to the people, where collective will did not trump individual right, and where free citizens were permitted to create and keep their own wealth. These principles have transformed the world: “The miracles of the past three and a half centuries—the unprecedented improvements in democracy, in longevity, in freedom, in literacy, in calorie intake, in infant survival rates, in height, in equality of opportunity—came about largely because of the individualist market system developed by the Anglosphere.”

Barton Swaim reviews Daniel Hannan’s Book

Cameron’s Elite Will Stop at Nothing to Win This EU Referendum:

The Big-Gov Octopus rewards so many:

“… I talked about David Cameron and why he’s prepared to win this referendum at almost any cost. Now here’s the worrying part. This doesn’t just apply to David Cameron. It also applies to:

George Osborne; Christine Lagarde; the 10,000 EU apparatchiks who earn more than the Prime Minister; Goldman Sachs and most of the rest of the finance industry; the Magic Circle law firms; the big corporations which just love all that Euro regulation because it wipes out smaller competitors; all the big left-wing charities, environmental ones like the RSPB and the WWF especially because the EU pays them so much money; corporate lobbyists; SJW activists at Avaaz and 350.org and Change.org; the IMF; George Soros; wealthy landowners – especially those with EU-mandated wind turbines paying them squillions; everyone who works in diversity, compliance, human resources, sustainability, and equality; Nick Clegg; Nick Clegg’s lawyer wife; Liberal Democrats generally; Chris Evans and Jeremy Clarkson; everyone at the Guardian; everyone at the BBC apart from Andrew Neil, probably; and so on.

Make no mistake, we’re up against a bunch of bastards here so determined and unscrupulous they make Ramsay Bolton look like Mary Berry. These guys have EVERYTHING to lose from this – money, power, reputation, five-course lunches with foie gras, lobster, and Chassagne-Montrachet…”

– James Delingpole

In other news, Farage is most popular leader in the UK right now:

UK Independence Party (UKIP) leader Nigel Farage is the most popular party leader in Britain, polling the highest out of the four largest parties for leader satisfaction in a final poll before the referendum.

A UKIP spokesman has said:

“It is a truth universally acknowledged that there would be no referendum without the work of Nigel Farage and UKIP over the years, and it must be acknowledged from these polling figures that he and the party have been and continue to be a major asset for those who wish the 24th of June to be the United Kingdom’s Independence Day.”

Image: UK Flag adapted from Vaughan Leiberum

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.3/10 (89 votes cast)
Countdown to Brexit -- Britain's Independence Day?, 9.3 out of 10 based on 89 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/z98vzhu

166 comments to Countdown to Brexit — Britain’s Independence Day?

  • #
    Greg San Diego

    240 years ago America declared its Independence from Britain. Now it is Britain’s turn to declare their Independence from the socialist EU.

    Go Brexit! America is behind you.

    493

    • #
      reformed warmist of logan

      Good morning Jo,
      I almost had a car crash a couple of days ago!!
      I was listening to a truly balanced story on the BBC.!!
      I know right, something that has happened since about…oh…last century!!
      The story was about ‘Brexit’ and revolved around two people who genuinely hadn’t made up their minds yet.
      One of the key points I got was an ex-RAF. pilot who was getting a serious ‘reality adjustment’ from his 11 year old daughter!!
      My key point is simply this …
      The EU. has become the world’s biggest experiment in un-representative governance. In essence, it covertly aims to channel Marx, and like Stalin and Lenin many years before, sooner or later is bound to fail.
      Regardless of the vote this week (clearly I’m hoping its a fail/leave), I truly hope and believe that unless the; EU., UN., IPCC., ILO., (and while I’m at it, the OIC. – Organisation of Islamic Co-operation) undertake ‘root and branch reform in the next couple of years, they should be MADE EXTINCT!!
      Keep up the great work.
      Kind regards, reformed warmist of Logan.

      221

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      If my memory serves me correctly, didn’t America and Britain go to war over it?

      Surely, you are not suggesting … ?

      71

  • #
    John Hewitt

    Well the red thumb brigade are going to have lots of fun with my comments!

    I’m a 51 to 49 Remain. Why? Quite simply the EU would make our life hell if we voted Brexit and any negotiations would take years with all the uncertainty that would involve. In any case we lack the leadership to do it effectively

    There are many things about the EU I dislike from the unelected bureaucrats on high salaries and even higher pensions to the petty rules and red tape that make life miserable for many small businesses. Don’t get me onto the illegal state subsidies that are rife in France.

    I voted to leave in 1975 but we have become embedded in Europe for over 40 years and disengagement is next to impossible.

    The whole EU edifice may come crashing down anyway because of the inconsistency of the Euro.

    Issues like the waste of investment on renewables etc barely get mentioned. Its all about economics like it or not

    The result will be a comfortable win 55/45 for remain.

    Bring on the red thumbs but it won’t alter the result!

    750

    • #
      Mike Spilligan

      I think you, sir, are a coward with a weak character. Of course we (I am a Brit) can handle our withdrawal from the EU. Much of that will be in our own hands, though I admit that our MPs have got used to taking the least line of resistance by not holding the civil servants to account.
      Should we Leavers win I’ll be watching my own MP like a hawk to make sure that he’s doing what his constituents want – and not drag his feet which they like to do – “because it’s so much easier, daahling”.
      We can make life hell for the EU, with the euro on the verge of collapse and only Germany and ourselves making significant monetary contributions – and five more economic “basket-cases” waiting to join.
      I am forecasting – with no flawless evidence – that Leavers will win 52 / 48; and if we do win and there appears to be unnecessary delay then most of the Leavers are prepared to sign up to rebellion – before any illegal EU army can intervene.

      582

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Having lived in the UK and knowing how fiercely proud the Brits are of their history and unique Britishness, they would be chomping at the bit to get out, and hate being tied to and being told what to do by Johnny Foreigner ( the EU )……

        As to the shooting ? MOst possibly a desperate move to try and break the momentumn of the exiting the EU and shock people so they revert to what they know ( a text-book trauma-based mind control technique ).

        Politics is dirty, but this is a referendumn on world govt which plumbs deeper depths of bad, so there is lots at stake…..its not nose in trough stuff, its global power thats at stake. Does any rational person think that they will let that go so easily?

        191

        • #
          Rick Bradford

          As the actor Robert Morley noted, in one of his ultra-British roles: “The trouble with these international events is that they attract foreigners.

          In some forums, I have seen a considerable overlap between Remainians and climate alarmists. Both groups are firmly wedded to the idea that humanity is best served if all decision-making is placed in the hands of a murky and largely self-serving elite.

          They all see the same bogeymen – Brexiteers, climate skeptics, Donald Trump, Fox News and the Koch Brothers.

          70

      • #
        Rodzki

        Indeed. In fact if Britain chooses to remain part of the EU, then the Last Night of the Proms is going to be a very hollow occasion. Instead of singing “Land of Hope and Glory”, they may as well include “Deutschland, Deutschland über alles”.

        80

        • #
          Manfred

          Radio NZ, who quite pleasantly described the recent Orlando tragedy as a “mass shooting,” studiously avoiding the unavoidable, also reliably referred to classical music as ‘cloistered’. Seems the Cultural Marxists are having a busy period at RNZ. They could well be needed in the UK soon.

          Rodzki, if Britain chooses to remain part of the EU, I suspect that ‘Last Night at the Proms’ will be outlawed, along with all other emblematic gatherings of a similar disposition. Britain will be paying very very dearly for rocking the boat. The Mullahs in Brussels will make it their avowed mission to expunge any possibility of a repeat. So, before you know it, you’ll be kollectively goosestepping down the Mall to the aptly named “An die Freude,” (Ode to Joy) otherwise referred to as The European Anthem, and damned grateful to be doing so. Down Under, we’ll be exposed to an eternal fusion of rap punk Progressive eco-propaganda and there will be a successful rebellion.

          40

    • #

      From what I’ve read about this, you have no influence in anything the EU decides to do. There was an article recently that showed that out of some 40 odd decisions made, Britain wasn’t able to override one. There is effectively no trade allowed unless the EU sanctions it and crap that the likes of Obama and Soros spout are effectively self-serving. For example, Obama said there’d be free trade difficulties if Britain exited the EU. How much free trade has there been between Britain and the US in the last 40 years?

      350

    • #
      jorgekafkazar

      Sorry, John, but, much as I’d like to award you a crimson digit, I’m a Yank and must hold my thungue. I’m a little puzzled why you apparently think being under the thumb of the Brussels Reichschancellery will not get worse with time. I can guarantee you that it will, and obtaining freedom from the entire EU fist can only get more and more difficult in future. There is, even now, considerable doubt that the voting will be handled honestly.

      410

    • #
      Peter C

      I’m a 51 to 49 Remain

      Almost there John.
      Clearly there are a lot of things that you don’t like about EU membership.
      Is it not worth a little bit of pain now to shake off the shackles of EU oppression and strive for a new and glorious future with a reinvigorated nation?

      220

    • #
      Lawrie

      Surely you jest. Great Britain was great because it more than once stood alone against the rest and through the character of it’s people and the bulldog spirit of it’s society it triumphed. You are trying to tell us that Britain no longer has those qualities; what an insult. The difficulties you suggest are minor compared to loss of democracy and loss of independence that comes from being the plaything of the unelected European Commission which seems to be made up of politicians that were rejected by their own electors.

      We would expect the weak willed members of the elite who have lost the ability to think outside the collective to hasten to hold on to something, anything that decides for them. The rest of course have the confidence and skills to decide their own path to success and they want their country back.

      230

    • #
      AndyG55

      The real problem in this vote will be making sure it is not massively gamed by people like John Hewitt.

      They are desperate and will do whatever corrupt act needs to be done.

      144

    • #
      Glenn999

      I guess you’re a big fan of obama and soros….

      Everything those two recommend turns out bad,
      so why follow them?

      121

    • #

      Quite simply the EU would make our life hell if we voted Brexit and any negotiations would take years with all the uncertainty that would involve. In any case we lack the leadership to do it effectively

      One of my Tweets

      #EUref Should you commit to stay in a relationship in which you’re threatened with harm should you #leave?

      Let me make this clear: There are no years of uncertainty.

      Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon under which the EU was morphed to be the suprastate with lots of power but no responsibility, provides for a mandatory, 2-year period of “negotiations” after the European Council is notified of a member’s intent to leave.

      If you’re looking at certainty, then consider that most people of the EU are pretty certain that the EU is moving in the wrong direction. A clear majority of those surveyed in half the member nations think it’s the wrong direction vs the right. A simple majority in 21 out of the 28 member nations think the same way.

      I’ve plotted out the chart using data collected in November last year by the EU and published as Eurobarometer 84.

      You want more certainty? Well, you can be certain that the EU will lie. President of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker openly admits that ‘When it becomes serious, you have to lie’. Such is the culture of the EU. Here’s a short video clip on the lies told to Norway.

      Still worried about uncertainty? Well, the UK, when it decides to leave can get to grips with the starting the process of untangling the EU’s tentacles in its domestic affairs. Many of those entanglements things have already been identified in e.g. the Flexcit (PDF) document which has been a work in progress for many years.

      The certainty with leaving the EU is the retrieval of sovereignty.

      That alone ought to a good enough reason to vote to leave.

      200

    • #
      Phillip Bratby

      Where is your backbone?

      40

    • #
      Dodgy Geezer

      It’s hard for me to understand this position – though a lot of Britons seem to agree with it.

      The line seems to be that we know there are major problems with the EU, but we’re uncomfortable about leaving. This is the ‘frog in boiling water’ syndrome. I don’t think anything can be done about it. When you point out how it’s going to end up, the people who think this way put their fingers in their ears and shout ‘La, la, la, la…’

      40

      • #
        Raven

        This is the ‘frog in boiling water’ syndrome.

        Had a friend out from the UK a couple of weeks ago. He thinks the ‘remain’ campaign might win largely because the younger generations have scant knowledge of what Briton was like previously and therefor no basis for comparison.

        30

      • #
        nightspore

        As I recall there were a lot of Germans making the same argument some decades ago …

        00

    • #
      AndyG55

      “but it won’t alter the result!”

      If you think that will be the result…

      SOMEONE’S going to have to alter it.

      Looks like REALITY might bite John H hard in the rear end. :-)

      00

  • #
    Mardler

    Remain will win, by a margin sufficient to allay fears of (undoubted) vote rigging.

    The EU is a socialist superstate modelled on the USSR: it is a huge undemocratic bureaucracy.

    The prime question for every Brit is: do I want my Parliament to be run by elected politicians who I can vote out or do I want to cede that sovereignty to a group of commissars, oops, commissioners with no responsibility other than to the furtherance of the socialist superstate?

    It could easily be argued that voting for the latter (handing your country to another power) is an act of treason.

    But if you’re still undecided (!) ask yourself whether if we weren’t already in would you join a group whose individual nations have no say in 65%+ of their legislation, whose economy is tanking, whose approach to trade is to erect barriers to the outside world but whose approach to mass immigration is to open the flood gates?

    Still undecided? (My word, you are thick!) consider the cost: we get little back for our second highest contributions. A huge proportion of fees is wasted: for example, did you know that every month the entire commission and MEP backup is transported in a huge convoy of trucks from Brussels to Strasbourg? This madness can’t be stopped because it pours money into France and they veto change!

    Still undecided? Then there’s no hope for you: best you go live in France, Germany, Italy or Greece if you hate the UK so much.

    472

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Remain will win, by a margin sufficient to allay fears of (undoubted) vote rigging.

      I beg to differ.

      Bloomberg are reporting that two last-minute polls are showing slight leads for the “leave” campaign. The margin is at 2% in one poll, allowing for error, and 1% in the other, also allowing for error.

      That is a very close call, and I personally cannot see a Tory Government just accepting such a narrow margin, that does not suit their purposes. Especially so, when you consider the amount of largesse they have dispensed already to get the electorate to this point.

      I am predicting that Britain will be facing an extended period of recounts. At least until the numbers can be pursuaded to come up with the right answer.

      260

      • #
        Steve of Cornubia

        Hi Rereko

        Ah but, you see, polls mean nothing if the vote is rigged, and I cannot seriously see the hugely powerful vested interests in this allowing the UK to exit. It is simply too hard to imagine that these people, with enormous power, money and influence (going way, way WAY beyond even a national government’s power) would accept that their days of wine and roses are over. The combination of a hugely powerful, international socialist elite, a business bloc desperate to maintain its wealth and an army of useful idiots in the arts represents a power bloc larger than anything the world has seen before.

        I just cannot see this behemoth, which has already demonstrated its contempt for ordinary citizens in almost everything it does, and its unwillingness to act openly and democratically, allowing we plebs to call an end to their party.

        110

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        MY hope is that peopel see the shooting for waht it is – a desperate attempt to try and force the exit vote to stall.

        Logic says that if you are desperate enough to have someone murdered but not admit to it (a) you are a coward not to identify yourself (b) you lack the moral chracter to rule (c) shooting ionnocents is a clear indication fot eh reality you would do it any who oppose you ( i.e. you are a tryant ).

        Orion showed it was easy to manufacture Manchurain Candidates, so using a “disposable” patsy is a standard play with no loose ends.

        QED

        92

        • #
          Peter Yates

          @originalSteve … What evidence is there that those who “lack the moral character to rule” arranged “to have someone murdered”? If you have zero evidence, you are guilty of trying to start unsubstantiated rumours, and therefore you may have your own agenda.

          Actually, there are reports like this one:
          “While police probe links between the suspect and neo-Nazi groups as a “priority line of enquiry”, detectives are also investigating the state of his mental health as it emerged that Mr Mair had sought help for depression the night before Mrs Cox was killed – but was told to make an appointment and come back the next day.”
          http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/18/jo-cox-mp-shot-thomas-mair-arrives-at-court-following-murder-cha/

          42

  • #
    Jaymez

    I really can’t understand why it is such a close call. I haven’t heard anyone able to justify the EU fees, 17bn pounds per annum from memory, and the compliance costs, keeping track of and enforcing over 600,000 pages of EU regulations, and their loss of sovereignty. I don’t know of a single politician that wishes Britain had joined the Eurozone and given up the Pound. To not do so was the smartest thing they ever did, they managed to maintain some control over their banking system and keep some of the economic levers in their own war chest rather than subjugate control to the EU.

    Hitler would be astonished that the EU has managed to do what he could not. Unfortunately Britain’s allies cannot come to her aid.

    Why doesn’t the UK look around the world and ask why no other region is wanting to repeat the building of a similar bureaucracy in their region. South East Asia would be a logical choice if it was such a good idea, but no-one is looking to form say an ASEAN Union. Or a Pacific Island Union, or a North American Union, or Central or South American Union, or an African Union. They can achieve all the benefits of the EU through trade agreements and visa arrangements. They do not have to establish an overarching bureaucracy.

    I do have some optimism for a possible Brexit outcome. Some of my usually left leaning friends and relatives back in the Old Country are pro Brexit and none of my UK friends and relatives have made positive comments for the ‘Remain’ campaign. They are not the types to get out in the streets and march, but they do have a vote.

    263

    • #
      delcon2

      Did you know that Greece spent2 Billion Euro’s on Tanks?Did you also know that they spent 3 Billion Euro’s on Submarines?So,who made lots of lovely Euro’s out of that?GERMANY,thats who.Who benefits from the EU?Right again,GERMANY and to a lesser degree,FRANCE.BREXIT.

      132

    • #
      Yonniestone

      When you have the Conservative (/sarc.) Prime Minister of Great Britain wanting to remain under the thumb of this asshat engineered Union of Marxist die-hards a close call isn’t very surprising.

      121

  • #
    PeterPetrum

    I, as ex Scot Australian, am in France at the moment. I can’t wait to hear the result, but fear that Remain will win. I know what I’d be voting for if I still lived in Scotland! Especially as so many Scottish “Lairds” are reaping millions from the general public for the wind turbine monstrosities they have reportedly planted all over the Highlands and Borders.

    352

    • #
      Annie

      They have planted them Peter. We drove up to Glasgow Airport last August from Cumbria. I was appalled at the number blighting the landscape. They are massed offshore in the Solway Firth too; highly visible from the Cumbrian side and ruining the beauty of that wonderful Scottish coast.

      151

  • #
    Manfred

    “The whole EU edifice may come crashing down anyway because of the inconsistency of the Euro.”

    The incomprehensible EU financial haemorrhage, a colossus of EU debt amounting to E25,356 per capita may be viewed at the EU Debt Clock. It is juxtaposed to other mind bending national debt colossae. There is no rationality exhibited by the ruling elites of Brussels or its tentacles as they squander the daily work and grind of millions in the present and for generations into the future. THEY, who are the single most extravagant, ideologically driven, greedy and wasteful totalitarians ever to have walked the Earth, squandering human capital as they squander money, without thought save their own comfort and the next scheme to feed their insatiable greed and power.

    Pandora’s Box has been irretrievably opened whatever arises from this referendum.

    310

    • #
      delcon2

      And Obama is right up with the rest of the “Elite”as is our own”Not Much Preferred” politicians.

      131

    • #
      Annie

      The disgrace includes no audit for many years now, more the twenty if my memory serves me right.

      90

  • #

    the 10,000 EU apparatchiks who earn are paid more than the Prime Minister;

    Fixed.

    261

  • #
    Ruairi

    What a joy if Brexit could beat,
    The self-serving Brussels elite,
    Choose their own destiny,
    By a vote to be free,
    And Remain to be lost in defeat.

    311

  • #
    John of Sunbury

    Unfortunately betting markets tend to be better indicators than opinion polls in these matters. I was very disheartened yesterday to discover that betting markets do not see this as a knife edge contest. The odds have tightened a little today but Brexit still paying 5/2 with Remain paying 1/3. In this case I very much hope the market is wrong.

    150

  • #
    pattoh

    Putting on the Big BRo/NWO tin hat, it is hard not to consider the possibility of a “Bernays” inspired fix to the public psyche :-

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/19/swedish-politicians-death-13-years-ago-mirrors-murder-uk-mp/

    80

  • #
    Ross

    At the risk of stating the obvious it seems to me those that want to remain either have huge vested interests ( only looking at their own little picture) or they are simply scared of change.
    Those that wish to leave are looking at the bigger picture of sovereignty / democracy and will vote from a position of principle.

    Having said that I think either way Cameron’s political future will be in a knife edge. Internal politics in the UK may change dramatically and permanently.

    The parallels between the alarmists propaganda used by the Remain group ( especially the non UK, EU elite) and that used in the AGW debate is startling.

    The political elite just haven’t worked out that worldwide voters are sick of being told what to do and that most realise that politics in many major countries is rotten to the core.

    191

  • #
    Ross

    Now I read on Breitbart that Juncker ( the EU top dog) has come out and said the UK voters need to know there will no more negotiation on the EU. So all those that said the UK should stay in and push for reform from within have just got their answer –you’d be wasting your time, the elite have spoken!!

    161

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      I wonder if the EU have ever learnt from history?

      3 words:

      Liberte Equalite Fratenite

      60

  • #
    el gordo

    The hot money is on Remain.

    ‘Mr Goddard (Landbrokes) said the serious money, involving sums that might make you think quite hard before betting, were going on Remain.

    “You are getting lots of fivers at 3/1 on Leave, and then occasionally you get somebody from the City wanting £10,000 at 1/4 on Remain – because he stands to win £2,500. And that blows all the fivers on Leave out of the water.

    “Industry-wide, I think £30m will be bet on the referendum with £25m going on Remain, and just £5m on Leave.”

    The Independent

    70

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      el gordo:

      My take is that there are a lot more betting on Leave than on Remain. Unless there is a EU law giving extra votes based on wealth then Leave seems to be the punters’ choice.

      70

      • #
        delcon2

        I have also heard that there is a 7 point lead for BREXIT.I hope for our friend in the UK,that it comes to pass.Other-wise we may see WW3 in the near future.

        70

      • #
        el gordo

        Good point Graeme.

        If the Stays win the disgruntled can always leave, Australia is recruiting.

        80

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      … fivers at 3/1 on Leave, and then occasionally you get somebody from the City wanting £10,000 at 1/4 on Remain …

      That tells me two things:

      Firstly, the people who want to remain are those who find membership very comfortable financially. The people who want to leave have seen their jobs shift to lower paid workers in Europe, and want jobs back, please.

      Secondly, I understand that each person gets one vote for or against, independent of what they earn, and independent of how much wealth they have accrued.

      I seems to me, that Mr Goddard knows that it is one person, one vote, but wants to deflect attention away from that fact, in order to “tilt the playing field”. That is a clear “tell” that he is somewhat worried.

      40

      • #
        Ross

        The interesting thing Rereke is the financial markets are following and reacting to the bookies movements yet they don’t see the simple truth you have pointed out –one man one vote irrespective of any mega bets with the bookies.

        20

  • #
    Leonard Lane

    I sincerely hope that the UK leaves the EU. The Future of EU is only negative, more corruption, more tyranny, less freedom, and hundreds of millions being conquered by a cruel and murdering theocracy.

    211

  • #

    I wonder which way Baroness Thatcher would voted as she was opposed to socialism and didn’t like giving away sovereignty.

    142

    • #
      Ross

      Apparently the Queen asked dinner guests recently for 3 good reasons why the UK should stay in the EU. I thought it was an interesting leak because the Queen has always kept away from politics but I think on this occasion the leak may have “authorised”.

      130

      • #
        pattoh

        I thought Phil the Greek was a huge subsidized Windfarmer. ( compliments of EU treaties)

        31

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        the leak may have [been] “authorised”

        Ross, shush.

        Everybody is supposed to think that it was unauthorised, because unauthorised leaks have much more veracity, than something that has just been made up, by a Press Officer.

        20

  • #
    toorightmate

    Stock markets have risen and fallen for as long as I remember.
    We are now told by the left wing media that recent fluctuations are due to uncertainty about Brexit.
    What excuse will the left wing media use next week for market fluctuations when the Brexit hysteria is done and dusted?

    91

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      The left wing media have the collective attention span of a Mayfly.

      Note: It is no longer May.

      50

  • #
    Steve of Cornubia

    I am not given to seeing conspiracies everywhere, but I do not put much faith in human nature. Consequently, because the stakes here for Europe’s political and economic establishment are so staggeringly high – going well beyond the UK’s exit but possibly also precipitating the slow demise of the EU as other nations follow – that I seriously fear the poll will be rigged. Of course a big win would look suss, so I expect a narrow win for Remain.

    If I were you, I would start buying shares in producers of champagne and caviar, but only the best (most expensive) brands.

    80

  • #
    Manfred

    A silliness of European bureaucracy became a personal experience for me. I wanted to return to the UK to undertake some specialised training. I was advised that my graduate credentials gained in 1984 were no longer recognised, although I have a substantial list of postgrad credentials. I could ‘acquire’ a ‘registrable qualification’ in the form of a certificate were I to undertake a ‘course’, which would cost 8000 pounds.

    The irony is, had I stayed within the European jurisdiction but not in the UK, (instead of emigrating down-under) I would NOT have been required to undertake any ‘courses’. My credentials would have been entirely acceptable.

    Go figure.

    150

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Once again it’s never about standards always about money with this ilk, the thing about governing power is people get tired of it’s expansion leading to dissension amongst people, a police force to enforce laws agreed upon by the majority is referred to as ‘the thin blue line’ when this line is grabbed by a growing bureaucracy and stretched the line becomes anything from turquoise to powder blue to as white as the paperwork used by the obscure quasi-authority that has somehow gained control over yet another aspect of your life without any consultation.

      70

    • #
      Annie

      I am infuriated by that sort of nonsense. It is why I loathed the whole set up from the start, when I felt that our kith and kin here and NZ were being shut out.

      81

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Does anyone else find it strange that leftist political proponents base their ideals around destroying government and capitalist elitism but are perfectly fine with accepting such rule if the same elites identify as believing in those leftist ideals while representing what was the disliked situation in the first place?

    Do not condemn the cowardice of your fellow citizens in wanting the last days of relative peace and comfort to somehow persist in voting remain, as they have been conditioned to do so.

    But justly condemn them if they refuse to fight when the real decision is made to physically remove those that conspired to take over their country abusing the fairness of their own democracy.

    82

    • #
      toorightmate

      As Tim Blair pointed out, many Ausssie republic supporters don’t want us to be part of Britain, BUT those same people want Britain to be part of the EU.

      90

    • #
      Steve of Cornubia

      Like you, apparently, I believed the EU to be a thing of the Left, especially in light of its fondness for petty rules and regulations. However, I spent a little while yesterday trawling through the list of UK MEPs and I was surprised to find that there are many MEPs from the Right. Now, some of these (Farage and Hannan for instance) appear to be in there as disruptors/spies/agitators, but most of them seem to be just your run o’ the mill ‘Conservatives’.

      The only conclusion I could reach was that this is further evidence that party politics today is a mirage, with no more real rivalry, loyalty and contest than a football championship. Sure, the fans might be loyal, but the players don’t truly care who they play for so long as they get to play and receive nice fat salaries. The apparent war of ideas we see in parliaments is nothing more than sport, or professional debating. The actual issues and outcomes matter less than the game and the benefits to the teams and players, even less so the fans (i.e. the voters).

      How else do we explain the lack of principles? Conviction politicians seem to be extinct, or at the very least endangered. Watch any QT her in Oz or in the UK and, minutes after apparently heartfelt, bitter words are exchanged, the protagonists can be seen sharing a joke in the corridor……. Sure, there are real enemies and rivals in the chamber, but these are just as likely to come from the same party as opposing ones.

      And so I see much that is supposed to be ‘political debate’ is in reality just sport. There are indeed winners and losers in the chamber, but it seems all the real losers are out here, with us plebs, not least because we fall for this charade while the pollies continue to share the spoils and ride at the pointy end of the plane.

      80

      • #
        Yonniestone

        Steve I concur, four years ago I had the honour of conversing with a great man who enlightened me on something called the Hegelian Dialectic and it’s links to Marxism.

        Lord Christopher Monckton I thank you.

        72

      • #

        However, I spent a little while yesterday trawling through the list of UK MEPs and I was surprised to find that there are many MEPs from the Right.

        You seem to be under the impression that MEPs are part of the EU’s legislative process. They’re not. The European Parliament is by its construction a feckless distraction from where the real power is exercised. WHile the MEPs debate what is put before them, they do not legislate.

        Real power is behind the curtain. Keep an eye on the shell game.

        It is the European Council in which (nominally) the head of state of a member nation sits. Every nation has equal weight on the Council. Council decides by consensus. i.e. in most cases, even a majority isn’t good enough; everybody has to agree to.

        It is the Council that nominates the members of the European Commission. It is the Commission that ultimately determines what the MEPs are to be discussing, or what they’ll make a regulation without discussion. The Commission, as the “executive” and comprised of nominees supposedly representing each member state but who are sworn to betray their own country if it conflicts with the objectives of the EU, proposes legislation and makes things happen.

        The EU isn’t just undemocratic. It’s anti-democratic.

        140

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        … the pollies continue to share the spoils and ride at the pointy end of the plane.

        Ah, but should the plane crash, they are likely to die before you do. Small consolation, I know, but justice is still justice.

        60

  • #
    Pegasus

    I am praying for a “Leave” vote. I have heard that one benefit of being “in”, is that it has staved off war for the last 60 years of or so; however in my honest opinion, from what I am seeing, there will be a disintegration of the so called EU causing far more strife than had the countries remained independent. It is only a matter of time, the EU are trying to form its own army, but….that is to enforce its existence, it requires no other force due to the existence of NATO. It is so sinister and obvious I cannot understand the desire to remain. However, individuals selfish interests will override it all. It seems for some that the desperate need to be able to go on holiday without getting a visa or showing a passport is more important than independence.

    190

  • #
    Owen Morgan

    I can’t wait to vote to Leave. Back in the Seventies, my father was one of the small band of Conservative MPs who voted against entering the Common Market.

    150

  • #
    Russell

    Has anyone considered that the EU is the test case for the UN’s goal of “One World Government”?

    I just can’t help feeling that Jo Cox was the “sacrificial lamb” used to swing voting sentiment back from the “Brexit” direction (which was becoming evident) to favour the Remain camp.

    I’m a former Brit (I left UK in 1970), now Oz citizen but, out of interest, I’m taking the University of Edinburgh’s FutureLearn Brexit MOOC – – at the moment. Being driven out of Edinburgh by a bunch of Scots, it’s pretty obvious that the academics want a Remain result. Personally, I feel that there is no stronger argument in favour of Brexit than the loss of sovereignty that the UK is suffering.

    180

    • #
      Manfred

      Endlessly Russell, I highlight the proto-global supranational State that Europe is. It must not fail. Obama said so. The eco-globalists see the EU as a wet dream of success. Clamp Europe down under the Green Fist and the UN administration will have successfully installed its 2030 ‘sustained’ development programme. PM Cameron in a last minute speech played on RNZ listed the challenges facing a Europe he viewed as better coped with ‘together’… ‘Climate change’ preceded ‘security’ in his statement.

      40

    • #
      Owen Morgan

      “Sacrificial lamb” rather implies that Jo Cox’s murder was staged at a high level. I don’t believe that, although I do believe it has been repulsively exploited. The UK joined the Common Market in 1973, with a heavily lopsided referendum endorsing that in 1975. Despite the widespread unpopularity of the Common Market/EEC/EU in the UK, especially in England, there has never, ever been a terror campaign against it and I am pretty sure one didn’t suddenly start, in the final days of the campaign.

      Westminster does have a track-record here, though, when it comes to making the most of tragedies, because Tony Blair shamelessly exploited the death of Princess Diana, during another referendum campaign. Even for Blair, it would have been something of a stretch to claim that opponents of Welsh devolution had engineered Diana’s car-crash. With the murder of Jo Cox, however, the usual suspects (grauniad, beebyanka) have been rampantly “finding” supposed connections to the Brexit campaign.

      Anyway, I got up early and I voted “Leave”.

      40

      • #

        As I wrote upon two blogs I write for:-

        Notes for a Novel

        The scenes are set in the present, with two partisan sectors, with vastly differing ideas, opinions and motives: both attempting to capture the public’s minds and intentions before a vote, a referendum ballot; finally takes place to determine whether their Country stays within a large group of Nation States: or takes a decision to leave that group forever.

        A tiny number of scheming but deeply cynical politicians, of varying political colours but with strongly-held views and ambitions, gather in a smoky room in a Georgian house in Lord North Street: all intent upon one thing and one thing only, to agree on a plan, a single act, which would bring public opinion strongly across towards their viewpoint.

        The most cynical man in the group, a former advisor and master-spinner himself, addresses the group seated around the highly-polished table towards the conclusion of their secret debate. No notes were to be kept, all mobile phones had been switched off, batteries ejected, before the conspirators had departed their homes and offices before their separate anonymous journeys to a house which had already been ‘scrubbed’ and tested for electronic and recording devices; for this was one meeting which could not, and would never, be referred to again, once the meeting had concluded its truly terrible purpose. The speaker tapped his pen against the exquisitely-cut and decorated crystal water jug, and the ringing tone sharpened the attentions of the listeners.

        “We are agreed, gentlemen, on the proposal which has been discussed. As our plan calls for one, and only one, sacrificial ‘lamb’ for the stewpot, I will now access the names which have been placed in the bowl before us; one candidate from six of the main areas within the Kingdom. All preparations are in place, and the scapegoat ‘patsies’ already seeded and in place, with a formidable team to finally mould his mind, already tormented by his own mental instabilities, once the target has been chosen. The rest of the ‘patsies’ will receive the mental health treatment and medications which those unfortunate people should have received immediately their diagnoses were completed. The back-up evidence; of instability, of threats and of weaponry preparations, are already in place, via the Internet, so we can proceed.” As he finished his sentences, he leant forward, dipped his hand into the bowl, and brought out a single slip of paper, folded over three times. He spoke the name revealed by the paper, and the eldest of the six other men, one who had sat silently for most of the meeting whilst sat around the table flinched, hesitated for maybe five seconds, then slowly nodded his assent to the choice.

        The speaker remained standing. “Again, gentlemen, we are agreed, we do this terrible thing, because our opponents are gaining upon us in the race towards the Referendum Vote; we sacrifice this one; so that we might, by inference alone, blame this one death on our opponents: and the fools who follow us will leap upon this tragedy as if it were Manna from Above: and our Colleagues in Brussels, in all the capitals of Europe, will breathe easier because we, above all else, know that might is right!”

        00

  • #
    John of Cloverdale, WA, Australia.

    Winston Churchill once said: ” England made Shakespeare,but the Bible made England.”

    “This royal throne of kings, this sceptered isle,
    This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
    This other Eden, demi-paradise,
    This fortress built by Nature for herself
    Against infection and the hand of war,
    This happy breed of men, this little world,
    This precious stone set in the silver sea.”
    ― William Shakespeare (Richard II)

    100

    • #
      JLC of Perth

      That speech is even more pertinent if you read it right through to the end. It goes on for a while and finishes like this:

      This land of such dear souls, this dear dear land,
      Dear for her reputation through the world,
      Is now leased out, I die pronouncing it,
      Like to a tenement or pelting farm:
      England, bound in with the triumphant sea
      Whose rocky shore beats back the envious siege
      Of watery Neptune, is now bound in with shame,
      With inky blots and rotten parchment bonds:
      That England, that was wont to conquer others,
      Hath made a shameful conquest of itself.
      Ah, would the scandal vanish with my life,
      How happy then were my ensuing death!

      50

    • #
      Owen Morgan

      Have you ever seen the Wilton Diptych in London’s National Gallery? It really does have an island, set in an authentically silver sea. Shakespeare spent quite some time at Wilton House, a fabulous place, close to Salisbury, which is where the Wilton Diptych was kept in his time.

      Whether he was there before or after writing “Richard II” will probably always be unclear, but the possibility that his lines were inspired by that amazing painting is rather more persuasive than, oh, claims of catastrophic, man-made global warming.

      50

  • #

    It’s such a pity!

    If England remains in the EU, they’ll just become an also ran. Just pages in History.

    A tiny Country really, which would fit easily into Victoria.

    I think back on all that stuff I learned as a child at school. Rote learning much of it. Most of it related to matters so involved with that history of England, and what it gave to us all. It didn’t mean as much to me then as it did in later years up till now.

    One of the first great migrations was when those Germanic tribes moved to the UK, along with those from Northern Europe, and the regions of France.

    The Angles, the Saxons, and the Jutes.

    The mixed together, and ended up making England what it now is, or was, the land of the Angles, Angle Land, England.

    They gave us the language now spoken virtually everywhere. Angle-ish, Anglish, English. If you want to compete on the World stage anywhere, you have to be versed in that language, mainly if you want to compete with the current World super power, the U.S. They don’t call that language ….. American. It’s English. Anyone who wants to be on that World stage, needs English, as well as their own language.

    England, arguably the longest standing (in time) World super power. Threw off everyone, settled everywhere, set up the way things were done back home. They were gradually thrown out in most places, but things remained set up virtually as the English set them up.

    They refined The Law. They refined politics to a form of democracy now the World standard, 800 plus years ago.

    Their Navy ruled the WHOLE World.

    They gave us Cricket. (oh, and a few other major world sports as well)

    Technology advanced. Art advanced. Virtually everything advanced.

    All of it from tiny little England.

    There will always be an England, but now it’ll just be a shadow.

    Evolution I suppose, but those pages in History are without doubt the richest of any Country.

    Soon, that’s all they’ll be.

    They’ll never get those days back, but if they remain as a part of this, whatever it is, the EU, then that’s all they’ll have.

    Pages in History.

    Tony.

    170

    • #
      ROM

      England also gave the World the Industrial Revolution, the single greatest advance next to the English version of the Rule of Law, both of which have along with Gutenberg’s printing press, become the very foundation underpinning the whole of our modern world wide civilisation.

      140

      • #
        F. Ross

        Not to mention John Locke, David Hume, Isaac Newton, Shakespeare, Alexander Pope, Thomas Grey, Churchill, Chaucer, Disraeli, Jane Austen, Bronte sisters and so many, many more. It truly boggles the mind.

        Were I able to vote it would be, without doubt, Brexit YES!

        121

      • #
        Manfred

        “Gutenberg (a German) had lost his invention to Fust, he was not finished. He created the new printer’s outfit which was a set of small types with round, cursive handwriting an invention which really took off after Gutenberg’s death in 1468. One of the most influential printers was a man called William Caxton. He was an Englishman who was the first to bring the print press to England (1476) and was arguably the best printer of his day. It can be said that Caxton was the important figure for printing in England and was therefore instrumental in getting English scholars heard around the world.

        Gutenberg, Caxton and the origins of printing – Journalism Now

        80

  • #
    pat

    hard to know how they can fix the vote for Remain. despite what anyone thinks, many in the left are just as passionate about exiting the EU as the right.

    CAGW sceptic, Piers Corbyn, Jeremy’s brother, participates in LEXIT THE MOVIE, made in 2 weeks with 6,000 quid which was crowd-funded. certainly not as slick as BREXIT, but just as heart-felt.

    Youtube: Lexit the Movie
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq72f81kkM4

    70

  • #
    ROM

    I usually think I am right but my wife, kids and siblings assure me in no uncertain terms that I am usually wrong.

    So with that out of the way!

    Another day, Another prediction!
    .

    Regardless of the outcome of the Brexit vote, if that vote is at all close, the British desire to see the last of the EU as an EU member nation will remain and intensify unless there is a very major reform on the whole EU structure and a very significant loosening of the unaccountable and constantly tightening dictatorial Brussels bureaucratic stranglehold on the EU’s member countries.

    Such a reform is already being mooted in Germany and other major EU nations as it is becoming recognised that with a Brexit looming the whole Brussels based EU system is now beginning to drive a number of nations citizens to view the EU structure with increasing distaste and increasing contempt for the highly centralised, completely insensitive to national feelings, dictatorial attitudes of the EU Commission and its utterly unaccountable bureacracy that is attempting to force itself into every aspect of the EU citizen’s lives.

    [ the latest invasion of citizens rights to a choice and no doubt just one out of an innumerable number of similar bureaucratic dictates from the Brussels EU bureacracy is to dictate and limit the power of hair dryer motors. ??? ]

    As theoretical and closely intergrated in politics, social structures, external affairs and business grouping of former nations into a single continental entity the EU in its present form is doomed to split apart and perhaps even fail in its totality.

    Nations that are continental in size such as the USA, Canada, Russia, Australia, Indonesia as the Maritime continent are all settled by just one major group , what could in fact be classified as a Tribal grouping of people with a similar language and a similar culture such as Indonesia and Russia.

    Where such a historical tribal grouping has not existed and again the USA, Australia. New Zealand,and Canada with caveats, those continental sized national entities were all settled, each nation at its own roughly similar period by a wide diversity of people from a number of somewhat similar cultures but with a very wide diversity of languages who were no longer governed or had to fall into line with what had been their own tribal grouping culture in their own nation of origin.

    So they along with all those other diverse origins citizens set to and forged a new nation that they could swear allegiance to either formally or informally as their new home hence we have the USA, Australia, New Zealand etc.

    Canada is an excellent example of trying to force two very different cultures and language groups together leading to a very long historical friction between the french minority and the english language speaking majority which even after 1763 when the French in Quebec finally surrendered to the British.
    Canada became the Canada we know in December of 1775 when the Americans were driven out of Quebec.

    The Americans tried many more times to invade Canada witha number of military backed skirmishes and small battles until in 1814 the Treaty of Ghent was signed and in 1818 the Border between Canada and the USA was formally agreed to.

    Canada as a nation has now had just on 200 years to fully integrate the french and english speaking cultures into one nation but they still have by law two official languages and two somewhat different cultures across the second largest geographical nation on the planet.

    As I have posted here previously in another post, it seems that based on what I have seen and experienced here in Australia with my German heritage forefathers that it takes very roughly a couple of centuries or around at least four generations to pass before all those from the various diverse cultures and languages finally become a fully integrated part of a nation’s citizenship with little or no attachment to their former national groupings.

    The EU with its now 28 pre Brexit number of nations each with a long historical identity, a tribal grouping so as to speak, and each with its own language or language dialects would need many decades and more likely a couple of centuries if we look to modern Canada as just one example, to full amalgamate and become one continental nation.

    However the sheer unbelievable insensitivity and political thuggery of the Brussels bureaucratic, political and business elite have tried to force EU nationality and EU central control onto its member nations regardless of the cultural, language and very importantly the very long historical background diversity of this European continent’s group of peoples and nations and now we are beginning to see the backlash amongst the Citizens of these historically very old and diverse group of European nations.

    A most striking aspect of the whole Brexit debate has been the political, bureaucratic and business elites demands that Britain remain in the EU.
    In short those who will benefit the most, the elites of the UK and Europe who will gather and consolidate even more power, wealth and influence over the next few years if the British stay with in the EU.
    But which elite will most likely lose quite significantly if the citizens, those who bear the full burden of the increasingly dictatorial and utterly insensitive to the wants and desires and demands of the common street level european citizen decide that they want nothing further to do with the EU as it is presently structured.

    Once again and this is my opinion only; Regardless of the outcome of the Brexit vote providing only that it is a close vote to Leave or Remain, the EU in its present form and structure is destined to fail over the longer term.

    And this will due entirely to the EU’s dictatorial attitudes of its Commission and its Brussels bureacracy plus its complete insensitivity to the ordinary European citizens wants, demands and desires from those 28 very diverse in culture and language EU member nations which will lead to a backlash and revolt that is already evident amongst a good percentage of the 450 million street level and current EU citizens.

    130

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘…are all settled by just one major group.’

      Australia is a maritime continent and the original inhabitants came from Africa via India, which is detected in the DNA.

      Two hundred years ago the British referred to Australia as an outpost of Empire and a hundred years later we introduced the white Australia policy, then after two world wars we were told to populate or perish.

      All to no avail, we are a multiracial society. My prediction is that within a generation our parliaments will be full of people who regard English as a second language.

      30

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        I thought most Australians already regard English as a second language, after Strine.

        40

        • #
          JohnRMcD

          Ah Ha, Rereke! Do I detect a touch of that NZ bogan’s habit of trying to associate the NZ accent with English RP; hence all others are inferior. I was on the receiving end of the same BS from some of the bogan (in-laws) from the Wairapa and from a few based north of Auckland. They did not enjoy my laughter.

          30

        • #
          Raven

          Oh Rereke, really . .
          Fush & chups . . ;)

          00

    • #
      sophocles

      the latest invasion of citizens rights to a choice and no doubt just one out of an innumerable number of similar bureaucratic dictates from the Brussels EU bureacracy is to dictate and limit the power of hair dryer motors. ??? ]

      It goes further than that:

      A European Commission study, that is still being completed, has identified up to 30 electrical appliances to be covered by the EU’s Ecodesign directive outlawing high-wattage devices including electric kettles, hair dryers, wifi routers and smartphones
      It’s about the overall power consumption of common household appliances. The humble kettle is at risk too. Apparently they also have to be of lower power, in the name of `efficiency.’

      according to The Telegraph.

      E. M Smith presents a nicely humorous analysis of this along with an historically-based prediction of its dangers at his blog of ChiefIO.

      40

    • #
      Annie

      I never agreed to being a ‘citizen’ of the b….y EU or its predecessors. I am a subject of HM and proud of it.

      30

  • #
    KinkyKeith

    Good one Rom.

    Can’t help but feel that a Brexit would be a Victory for All the “average” people in Britain and a sign of hope for All the rest of us living in so called democracies.

    Maybe we can take back our countries and importantly, their Treasuries.

    KK

    110

    • #
      Yonniestone

      The rise of the mediocre has led to an uninspiring existence now considered normal, I predict they will eventually look to the greater to lead them once again.

      I claim this considering myself an above average medium.

      71

  • #
    John in NZ

    I don’t think many people are aware but they are splitting the vote over two days to make counting easier.

    People who wish to vote “Leave” should vote today.

    If you want to vote “Remain” you should vote the following day.

    100

  • #
    Rayzor

    ROM
    Examination of the western so called democracies shows that the populus is divided in almost 50/50 over conservative vs socialistic approach. the Brexit closeness is a reflection of this balance. Many theories could be advanced as to why this is so. My one suggestion is that as democracy decays by the advance of the entitlement welfare state, those that earn enough are required to support those who perceive that they do not. Fear will thus drive the dependent class to hug the remain vote as they see a socialist collective as the only means to provide the lifestyle to which they have been deliberately lead to believe is their right. Left leaning Govts have deliberatley embedded this dependence in their voting public as a means to remain in power. Weak conservatives have followed this trend and in fact have engaged in a bidding war for these voters and public servants who now attain greater salaries than many in the private sector.

    80

    • #
      ROM

      Take the longer term view, a view that spans many generations and many decades even into a century or so and you will see this constant swing backwards and forwards in democracies between capitalism and a socialistic society.

      I think you are right in the increasing democracy destroying sense ofentitlement by an increasing percentage of the democracy’s citizens and the consequent destruction of the economic underpinnings of the democracies.

      But ask yourself why it is that ALL of the very heavily socialised societies such as the USSR, Cuba yesterday, Venezuela today and many, many more have failed both economically, socially and innovatively over a period of just decades.

      Their economies could no longer support that old Polish saying under communism of;
      ” We pretend to Work.
      They pretend to pay us”.

      Democracies have that inbuilt ability to reinvent themselves and adapt and renew their capitalist foundations by regularly replacing the old governing blood with new and more innovative and fresh blood in the governing system leading to new burst of innovation and an economic rebuilding and the then redevelopment of a consequent social safety net.

      But it must all be seen and viewed on time scales that for the most part are longer than a single life time.

      Democracies can do this because unlike dictator run societies that rely upon force to maintain power, democracies for all their faults have in place a system that will boot out those the populace no longer believes are operating their own, initially selfish best interests.
      Which after time when the OPM runs out, morphs into a desire to boot out those politicals who have become stale or are shown to be incompetent.

      The next step is for the citizens who have come to believe that those old stale political nostrums from those decades before hand are no longer operating in their nation’s and therefore in their best interests and radical change has to be and will eventually be made unless the politicals involved are moved on and out.

      Democracies great strengths are that this can all be done peacefully and rationally if everybody follows those often unwritten rules that exist in any society including democratically based societies which provide that society with the cultural stability to hold it together through the tough and rough times that will always appear in any, regardless of size, groupings of human kind.

      60

  • #
    Egor TheOne

    Everyone should leave the unelected Marxist Conglomerate, not just the U.K.

    What idiocy possessed the U.K. to begin with to be willingly subservient to this ratbag mini-me New World Disorder…a disorder of 10,000 paper shufflers(do nothings) preaching do as they say but not as they do, all whilst receiving absurdly ridiculous self determined salaries.

    I would be very weary of those that advocate for staying within this prison system!
    No doubt to personally benefit at the expense of the average citizen.

    Leave,Leave,Leave…there is no other rational choice !

    81

    • #
      Yonniestone

      The first shame is that we have allowed self-interested authorities to build their bloody empires; the second is that we do absolutely nothing to foil their thievery.

      — Professor Bunyip

      80

  • #

    This is a comment I’ve added to a few MSN news threads:

    “It would be tragic for the UK to surrender sovereignty to a group of Europeans who can always outvote us.They will certainly press their advantage ruthlessly if we vote Remain.
    Europe does things differently yet we have been the most successful European nation for over 500 years so our approach is clearly better.
    Our success has been enhanced by our mix of different ethnic backgrounds and there is no reason why that should not continue outside the EU.
    The EU is not Europe. It is a purely political construct in the process of collapsing.
    We can work with European nations in all important respects without needing to give up our independence.
    The Commonwealth and the developing world are keen to do business with us if we can lower the EU Trade barriers that have been foisted upon us as a condition of our membership of the European Single Market.
    The World is out there for us to play freely in and we will be welcomed.
    We will even gain stature as an independent nation rather than being seen as just one small component of the European monolith.
    We will avoid the inevitable vast costs of having to support Germany in refinancing all the failing economies of Southern Europe.
    For those who can see it, Brexit is a win win scenario if only we can show our centuries old commercial courage and initiative.
    Who could really vote to destroy the British inheritance of political stability, rule of law and outstanding global success so as to bring our entire history to date to a full stop such that it is thrown into the scrapheap of history ?
    Little England means being subsumed into the EU.
    Great Britain means regaining our confidence and freedom.
    Vote accordingly.”

    The polls are neck and neck,sadly, but recent polling has often been significantly wrong so I’m hoping that the Leave vote has been underestimated.

    If Remain wins I will feel a deep loss at the end of Britain’s independent history after 1000 years of creating our modern global civilisation which has benefitted more people than the activites of any other nation that ever existed.

    230

    • #

      Stephen Wilde, what a thoughtful overview of the situation.
      Wish it were read by those intending to vote ‘remain’ in the EU.
      Not the oligarchy,of course, they already know the facts and
      wish to keep them from the citizens. Wish you and other Brits
      who support the open society a good outcome Stephen.

      60

  • #
    pat

    John in NZ – re comment #28

    not sure where u get the idea voting will be over two days. i have never seen anything online to suggest that. there are two choices on the paper – Remain or Leave.

    read all to find out when results should be known:

    22 Jun: Financial Times: EU referendum night: when will the result be known?
    by Jim Pickard and Sarah Gordon
    There will be no such early moment of clarity on the referendum result because there will not be a formal exit poll. But there will be at least two polls on the day, from Ipsos Mori — taken earlier in the week — and YouGov, who will poll on the day and release the numbers at 10pm…
    Low levels of turnout ought to favour the Leavers, who are thought to be more motivated by their antipathy towards the EU. Somewhat higher turnout should maximise the Remain vote, given that younger people — who tend not to show up to vote — are more likely to be Europhile…
    But if turnout reaches exceptional levels — say, 80 per cent or more — this could suggest an advantage for Leave as it implies that the most anti-establishment, anti-EU citizens, who might never normally bother to go to the ballot box, have come out in favour of Brexit…
    Experts are confident of certain patterns: that London, Scotland and Northern Ireland will be heavily In and that the Midlands and the north west will be Out. Post-industrial heartlands are likely to vote to Leave while university towns are more likely to be Remainers…
    3.30am (24 Jun UK Time)
    The overall picture could be clear, reckons polling expert Chris Hanretty, when Lancaster reports; by then about 200 results should be known…
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/35f15744-37cd-11e6-9a05-82a9b15a8ee7.html

    btw BBC has been pushing the millennials to vote for weeks. when the website to register to vote crashed earlier this month, there was much talk about how it was young people trying to register at the last minute. a comment i saw online mentioned how BBC was specifically schooling millennials the previous day on how to register/vote. what was less than a 2-hour crash then led to a potentially-illegal decision to allow 2 extra days to register.

    last nite’s BBC World Have Your Say program was on “UK’s Undecided Voters” & first 3 guests were two students, plus a so-called business-woman who sounded like she’d just reached voting age. turned out she was in her parents’ business! lol.

    BBC, like most Remain MSM, also like to frame Leave as far-right-wing, hoping to keep millenials on the Remain side.

    60

    • #
      John in NZ

      Hi Pat.

      I am afraid you misunderstood my attempt at humour. If the “Remain” group wait till day two to vote they will find the polling booths closed.

      My mother was English with a little bit of Welsh. My father’s family was all Scottish and I married a woman of Irish descent. I care about the result but Britain will leave. Either now or in a few decades. The EU is an economic train wreck. The real question is not if but when the EU falls apart.

      If they leave now there will be short term economic consequences, but better that than a death of a thousand cuts.

      130

      • #
        pat

        John in NZ

        thought u could be joking but wasn’t sure…and thought others might not be sure either. good one.

        30

    • #
      Asp

      A real dilemma for the millenials. Being groomed for a ‘Remain’ vote, but a true anti-establishment/current ruling elite vote would suggest a ‘Leave’ vote, would it not? Unfortunately, our millenials do not have ‘idealism of youth’ but have succumbed to a form of ‘entitlism’. Open to the highest bidder!

      10

  • #
    ROM

    Off Topic but a morsel too good to miss!

    Tasmania has had trouble with the Tasmanian / Victorian under Bass Strait power cable.
    Well they have company and its from a source that one would believe is of a considerably higher technologically advanced capacity that Tasmania could ever match in its wildest dreams;
    And naturally it involves wind turbines, arguably now becoming the most unreliable. most costly, most ineffective and biggest power generating scam ever seen on the face of this planet.

    From P.Gosselins NoTricksZone blog

    Technical Problems …Two More Huge German Offshore Wind Parks Cut Off From Grid!

    North German online news site http://www.nwzonline.de (NWZ) reports there is “no longer a connection” to two North Sea windparks due to “a faulty transmission cable”.

    According to the NWZ, the 135-kilometer Dolwin 2 cable runs from the North Sea to the North German coast and ends in the Emsland town of Dörpen. Engineers suspect the fault is somewhere onshore.

    Dolwin 2 cable delivers power from wind parks Godewind 1 and 2, which are operated by Danish energy company Dong. The two wind parks comprise 97 wind turbines and have a rated capacity of 582 megawatts, the NWZ reports.

    According to NWZ, grid operator Tennet blames Swedish engineering giant and cable manufacturer ABB for the problems. Currently ABB has not been able to identify the source of the problem and the power interruption is expected to cost (consumers) millions.

    &

    Also giant wind park Riffgat stopped delivering power late last year – also a faulty transmission cable. Read here. There’s no news from the Riffgat site on whether or not the park has been returned online. The site has not issued a press release in over 2 years.

    The online OZI here reported as of April 27, 2016: “Still no power coming from Riffgat“. However, just days ago – after more than half a year of being shut down – Riffgat hobbled back online.
    /blockquote>

    -

    60

  • #
    MudCrab

    It is often said the Britain won the war but lost the peace.

    Well kids, the peace isn’t over yet. LEAVE, or forever live in the shadows.

    110

  • #
    Egor TheOne

    This should be a no-brainer!

    Leave and be free OR stay imprisoned by the Marxists Conglomerate of un-elected failures.

    Don’t believe the propaganda of how being taxed into the ground is somehow good for you!

    And from those that pay little or no tax from their absurdly excessive salaries thieved from the average citizen.

    The EU is a failed experiment engineered by ratbags, they themselves failures from extremist political agendas.

    Why are so many ruled by so few, whilst the few only serve themselves at the expense of the many?

    They need ‘a Donald’ over there also it seems, to clean out these European Un-elected Tyrants!

    Say Yes to Freedom and No to Totalitarianism …..LEAVE…the quicker, the better!

    80

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Video blogger Pat Condell’s latest videos The moment of truth and I vote against you are great insights into the Brexit/Remain vote.

    I’ve found him informative and entertaining to say the least.

    30

  • #
    pat

    quite a few laughs in this one, including an appearance by UEA guy:

    23 Jun: UK Independent: John Rentoul: EU referendum: Why is there no exit poll?
    There will be no (public) exit poll following the EU referendum: our Chief Political Commentator explains why, and tells you what to look out for instead
    The exit polls at general elections, which are run for the BBC, ITV and Sky by Professor John Curtice of Strathclyde University, have built up a reputation for getting the result right over many election cycles…
    Last year, the exit poll announced when the polls closed at 10pm put the Conservatives on 316 seats and Labour on 239: the Tories ended up winning 15 more and Labour seven fewer…
    However, there will be no exit poll published at 10pm when voting in the EU referendum closes because the broadcasters have no way of knowing how accurate it would be…
    Some estimates have been made, extrapolating from opinion poll questions, of how pro- or anti-EU various places in the UK are. These will be useful on Friday morning for judging the significance of the early results. Chris Hanretty of the ***University of East Anglia estimates that if Leave is six percentage points ahead in Sunderland, expected to be one of the first councils to declare, that would mean the national vote is close…
    ***YouGov has also produced a map of the UK showing how Eurosceptic the country is by parliamentary constituency…
    That does not mean, however, that there will be no exit polling. The Independent understands that some financial institutions have commissioned exit polls, so that they can gain early intelligence of likely movements in the markets…
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-exit-poll-who-has-won-remain-leave-brexit-live-updates-a7094886.html

    Bloomberg’s timeline worth noting. UEA makes another appearance:

    22 Jun: Bloomberg: Eddie Buckle: Brexit Vote Count: What to Watch for as the Night Unfolds
    Want to follow the British Brexit referendum? Here’s everything you need to know to get through results night.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-20/eu-referendum-how-britain-s-brexit-vote-count-will-unfold

    30

  • #
    pat

    best Brexit spin from the Express:

    22 Jun: UK Express: BREXIT BOMBSHELL: Poll puts Leave SEVEN POINTS ahead of Remain hours before referendum
    A SHOCK poll has tonight placed Leave a monumental seven points ahead of Remain with just hours left until Britain’s historic EU referendum vote.
    By Greg Heffer, Political Reporter and Nick Gutteridge
    The bombshell survey, by respected pollsters TNS, shows Brexit has surged ahead by 49 per cent to 42 per cent once people’s likelihood to vote is taken into account…
    Analysts at the firm surveyed 2,320 adults across the UK online between June 16-22. Their baseline results reveal a two per cent lead for the Leave campaign, with support for Brexit at 43 per cent compared to 41 per cent for Remain…
    However, experts say that once the result is adjusted to take into account respondents’ stated likelihood to vote the Brexit camp’s lead grows to a cavernous seven points…
    The bombshell survey was released just hours after a separate poll by Opinium revealed a one per cent lead for the Leave campaign…
    Meanwhile two polls, published late tonight gave the Remain camp a lead going into tomorrow’s historic vote.
    A survey for YouGov recorded 51 per cent support for Remain and 49 per cent for Leave whilst a poll by ComRes, which falls well outside the standard margin of error of plus or minus three points, shows Remain on 54 per cent and Leave on 46 per cent…
    Yesterday, a YouGov poll showed a majority of voters want Britain to quit the EU…
    The survey, excluding undecided voters, revealed 51 per cent will vote to Leave the EU on with 49 per cent saying they will vote to Remain.
    But an ORB poll published on the same day found support for Remain at 53 per cent with support for Leave at 46 percent.
    A series of final polls are expected to be published tonight
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/682415/EU-referendum-Opinium-poll-Leave-one-per-cent-lead-Remain-Brexit

    20

  • #
    ROM

    If this vote is quite close but the “Remains” win the vote this time around then if the EU continues on in its present insensitive, arrogant bureaucratic and dictatorial fashion, the UKIP will probably still be around and the REAL VOTE on whether Britain remains in the EU will take place at the next General Election in the United Kingdom which is scheduled to be held on Thursday 7 May 2020, in line with the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011.

    Or earlier if the party in power loses the confidence of Parliament.

    If the UKIP does actually get a majority or in an alliance with another party that is sympathetic to the UKIP’s basic policies achieves power in the next British General Election, the British voters and public will have decided that Britain will exit the EU regardless.

    And the EU will have no excuses having brought the whole debacle on themselves by their own insensitivity and arrogance directed towards the ordinary citizens of the EU member nations.

    The very fact that such a participating public’s vote is being taken on whether to “Leave” or “Remain” in the EU by the world’s fifth largest economic power should be ringing very large alarm bells within the EU’s corridors that they are well on the way towards destroying the EU through their own arrogant and internally generated and utterly insensitive actions and policies.

    40

  • #
    Phillip Bratby

    My vote is in. When a building (the EU) is about to collapse, it’s better to be outside (even if you may get hit by dust and debris) than to be inside.

    Unfortunately it’s not the votes that count; it’s who counts the votes. Cameron cannot be trusted.

    90

    • #
      Dennis

      Could the key be UN Treaties?

      Would the government dare to use a Treaty to get around sovereign law to reject a Yes vote and remain in the EU regardless of a majority voter rejection of the EU.

      This is the basis of many or most UN Treaties and the plan was put to the UN when it was established by Australian Labor Attorney General Evatt. Of course treaties, international law cannot be enforced with a sovereign nation unless the government of the day agrees.

      20

  • #
    Dennis

    “We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and the oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills, we shall never surrender.”

    Winston Churchill
    WW2

    50

  • #
  • #
    Dennis

    A word of caution for Australians.

    Not long after the Gillard Labor Government introduced the Carbon Tax, despite denying it would be introduced if they were elected to government again in 2010, the Minister responsible, Greg Combet, was cornered in an interview on radio and forced to admit that the Union Labor Government intended to convert the Carbon Tax into Emissions Trading. And that their objective was to transfer Australian tax monies into the EU ETS. They were already handing the UN 10 per cent of the Carbon Tax revenue at the time.

    For many reasons I immediately saw a red flag, Union Labor socialists planning to join the EU ETS. Was that a first step towards joining Australia as an EU member country? I sincerely believe that is still their agenda. Consider one of many other indicators: PM Gillard granted around $300 million of taxpayer’s monies to the UN Education Fund and today after being appointed a director she is now the chair person of the fund.

    70

  • #
    doubtingdave

    Morning all , up early preparing to take the 15 minute walk through my local community to the polling station , decided against online voting because its a lot like internet shopping , in that you miss out on the full experience , and as this is such a momentous day I want to experience the full flavour and commit it to memory , I plan to make this journey during morning rush hour wearing my TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT 2016 T shirt in honour of that brilliant attack he made on Clinton cash last night and to create a talking point amongst the locals , I wonder what reaction i’ll get when passing the local students making their way to college , perhaps i’ll get chased around the village by an angry mob of Bernie supporters :) , ofcourse I’m voting to leave the EU although I don’t think the vote will go that way , but it doesn’t matter , I’m in for the long game and expect the vote to be close , and as both main parties are committed to remain in the EU they’ll both be wounded animals in the next general election when close on 50% of their core voters have been disenfranchised . PS whilst ironing my Trump shirt this morning ( my wife will not touch it ) I was watching cable news channel CNN , just to gauge what the opposition think , they mentioned the up and coming Australian election and are predicting a big win for the coalition , how solid is that prediction ?

    100

    • #
      James Bradley

      DD,

      The coalition will probably win with a much reduced majority. I and a lot of people I know just went and pr-polled because we are over the sh1t sprouted by the leaders of both major parties.

      For what it’s worth I chose carefully for the senate ALA, One Nation, Fishers and Shooters, Christian Democrats etc.

      For the House of Reps “keep your greasy fingers off my super” and “no carbon tax” – they aren’t actually nominees – I just added them.

      60

  • #
    theRealUniverse

    Sunset on the British Empire
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/06/22/sunset-on-the-british-empire/
    Also looks like the hero that supposedly tried to save Jo Cox had been dead for 3 years ..
    The dirt thickens! http://www.globalresearch.ca/goldman-pledges-substantial-six-figure-sum-to-british-pro-eu-group-report/5502804

    30

  • #
    ScotsmaninUtah

    Junker and Cameron’s words – London Metro

    Junker: “not a big fan of referendums, because voters can be easily misled by sideshows”

    Cameron: “if we want to fight climate change, if we want to win against the terrorists and keep our country safe, we are better if we do it together”

    Normally these two make threats as to how bad it will be or how the EU will punish Britain if it leaves.

    60

    • #
      Manfred

      See 22.1
      Note the threat of climate change precedes any radical muzzy threat. Climate change is the MO of Marxist eco-globalisation.
      Extraordinary.

      40

    • #
      Asp

      Brussels and France really showed how good they are at ‘doing it together’ when they came under attack.
      How can you even dream of an effective response to any attack, real or imagined, if you are governed by an ultra-bureaucracy?

      10

    • #
      Asp

      Brussels and France really showed how good they are at ‘doing it together’ when they came under attack.
      How can you even dream of an effective response to any attack, real or imagined, if you are governed by an ultra-bureaucracy?

      10

  • #
    doubtingdave

    The main argument from the remain campaign seems to be that the UK will be isolated if we vote leave , but this is a bogus argument , because most likely other Nations will follow our lead , think of those East European Nations that fought against being trapped in a oppressive super state , only to be dragged into another one , so the EU will probably implode , and then maybe we will be able to return to what Europe was supposed to be , a common market , not what it morphed into , a blue print or prototype for a global totalitarian new world order

    80

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      … the EU will probably implode

      The original members of the EU: Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, The Neatherlands, and Spain; are likely to remain as a single bloc. That is how the EEC started, and that worked pretty well for its members at that time (things have changed since, with the rebadging of the EEC as the EU, and evolution of power towards Brussels), but that won’t stop the bloc continuing.

      Economic models (which are notoriously never right) indicate that the second tranch of EU members: Austria, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Malta, The Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, and the United Kingdom; have received significantly less benefit from membership in the EU, that the earlier signatories to the EEC. Countries in this tranch joined, more or less, indivually and so did not have much negotiating weight.

      The third tranch of membership: Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia; share a recent history of socialist or communist modes of government, and could find some sense of familiarity and mutual support in the EU, but without Russia laying a heavy hand on what they could or could not do, domestically. This is the group of nations that have benefitted the most, according to most economic commentators.

      If the Brexit numbers indicate that the UK should leave the EEC, then we can expect to see other countries in that second tranch testing their own constituencies. Switzerland stands as a beacon for what an economy can do, in spite of not being part of a bigger trading bloc. Other countries in that second tranch will be watching what happens to the UK, should Brexit go through.

      00

  • #
    Asp

    The scary part regarding the whole referendum is that in one article I read : “…..the decision has to be ratified by parliament, most of which are pro-Leave.”
    So there will be a rearguard action by the ruling elite, and a protracted extrication from the slimy EU octopus’ may arms, but will be worth it in the end. This shows the already precarious state of democracy in the UK.

    My bet is that Denmark will be next.

    Closer to home, on the western shores of our great country, they are in the habit of having referenda on daylight saving every few years, as the ruling elite is having real difficulty in coming to terms with the will of the people. We are not that far behind on this slippery road to rule by elitists.

    40

  • #
    pat

    23 Jun: UK Express: Rebecca Perring: BREAKING: Dozens TURNED AWAY from voting in EU referendum because of registration ERROR
    DOZENS of voters were turned away when they arrived to make their vote in today’s historic EU referendum following an error at a polling station in Bedfordshire
    Residents in Leighton Buzzard were unable to have their say after they were told they were not included on the registration list.
    Angry residents hit out, describing the situation as a “total shambles” and Central Beds Council eventually made arrangements for voters who had missed out.
    Meanwhile, in London voters have been forced to wade through torrential flooding and downpours to arrive at their local polling stations to have their say in the once in a generation referendum.
    Out of 3,754 polling stations in the capital, three have been forced to close and five opened late due to flooding.
    Cars have been left submerged and referendum voters are struggling to reach polling stations…
    London Fire Brigade confirmed it had received 550 emergency calls and attended more than 400 incidents…
    Flooding also affected the A3 – one of the major roads through Surrey – as the county was hit with no fewer than 32 yellow weather warnings for heavy rain, with the possibility of flash flooding…READ ON
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/682668/EU-referendum-Nigel-Farage-Channel-4-Brexit-debate

    20

  • #
    pat

    another opportunity to mock Brexit voters:

    23 Jun: UK Mirror: Nicola Oakley: Nervous voters are taking their own pens to EU polling stations – here’s why you shouldn’t worry
    There’s a vicious rumour circulating on social media about ‘fraud’ in today’s referendum
    And now another rumour circulating on social media is seemingly convincing a lot of people that the Remain campaign is trying to ‘rig’ the election by rubbing out votes cast in pencil.
    This concern has gained momentum despite the fact that pencils are always provided for us to vote in elections and it’s never been a problem before.
    In any election, you’re not even technically required to use the pencil on the string provided…
    We’ve always been able to use our own pen, should we wish, with the important thing being that your intention is clear on your ballot paper…
    Somewhere along the way on the road to today’s EU Referendum , people started claiming that the vote could be rigged if people rub out our pencil marks.
    The claims seem to be mainly circulating among Leave campaign supporters…
    Jordan Lawrence, representing the Electoral Commission: “The use of pencils does not in itself increase the likelihood of electoral fraud: while pencil marks can be rubbed out, similarly, pen marks can be crossed out.”…
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nervous-voters-taking-pens-eu-8263787

    seems BBC Trending started the pencil/pen story yesterday, well before the rest of the MSM, and with a nasty anti-Brexit slant at that. check the tweets/pics:

    22 Jun: BBC Trending: Anisa Subedar: EU referendum: ‘Use pens’ plea of voting fraud ‘conspiracy theorists’
    But some people on social media, seemingly mostly Brexit supporters, suspect that the vote will be anything but fair. They believe that the establishment is not above fixing the vote to thwart the democratic will of the electorate.
    The run up to the referendum has seen the rise of the hashtag #usepens which urges people to reject the traditional pencils supplied at polling stations and instead use a pen to mark their cross on the voting paper. The thinking behind this is that it will then be impossible for some unknown hand to use an eraser to rub out your cross and make another mark in the other box…
    However, some on the other side of the argument in the Remain camp, clearly regard the thinking behind #usepens as an absurd conspiracy theory and that those who advocate it are members of the tin hat brigade…
    http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-36597367

    (BBC Trending began about 15 months ago & ignores credible allegations that social media is suppressing conservative views. so, like ABC/Fairfax etc, they can pretend their “trending” topics, which are usually said to have “gone viral”, are what’s dominating social media).

    naturally, the story is catching on here:

    Brexit voters paranoid about pens
    NEWS.com.au-49 minutes ago

    20

  • #
    pat

    comment #50 is in moderation. this is a follow-on:

    22 Jun: US News & World Report: Robert Epstein: The New Censorship
    How did Google become the internet’s censor and master manipulator, blocking access to millions of websites?
    The company maintains at least nine different blacklists that impact our lives, generally without input or authority from any outside advisory group, industry association or government agency. Google is not the only company suppressing content on the internet. Reddit has frequently been accused of banning postings on specific topics, and a recent report suggests that Facebook has been deleting conservative news stories from its newsfeed, a practice that might have a significant effect on public opinion – even on voting. Google, though, is currently the biggest bully on the block…
    Big social media companies like Facebook and Google have too much power to manipulate elections…
    As recently reported, at the moment autocomplete shows you “Ted” (for former GOP presidential candidate Ted Cruz) when you type “lying,” but it will not show you “Hillary” when you type “crooked” – not even, on my computer, anyway, when you type “crooked hill.” (The nicknames for Clinton and Cruz coined by Donald Trump, of course.) If you add the “a,” so you’ve got “crooked hilla,” you get the very odd suggestion “crooked Hillary Bernie.” When you type “crooked” on Bing, “crooked Hillary” pops up instantly…
    5. The Google News blacklist. If a librarian were caught trashing all the liberal newspapers before people could read them, he or she might get in a heap o’ trouble. What happens when most of the librarians in the world have been replaced by a single company? Google is now the largest news aggregator in the world, tracking tens of thousands of news sources in more than thirty languages and recently adding thousands of small, local news sources to its inventory. It also selectively bans news sources as it pleases. In 2006, Google was accused of excluding conservative news sources that generated stories critical of Islam, and the company has also been accused of banning individual columnists and competing companies from its news feed…READ ALL
    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2016-06-22/google-is-the-worlds-biggest-censor-and-its-power-must-be-regulated

    note:

    Hillary Clinton hit a milestone today! And it wasn’t a good one!
    Washington Post‎ – 2 days ago
    today marks 200 days since Clinton has held a formal press conference of any sort. 200!

    why should she bother when the MSM is doing her bidding.
    following were the top stories on my google news page this morning, even tho Trump’s Hillary speech had “gone viral”, & should have prompted the MSM to finally look into some of her scandals:

    Trump serves up angry whoppers at Hillary
    The Sydney Morning Herald ‎

    Opinion: Nobody brings the crazy quite like Trump
    Washington Post

    Donald Trump gets lost beneath ‘an avalanche of falsehoods’
    International-MSNBC

    In-depth:Fact Check: Trump’s Speech On Clinton Annotated
    NPR

    meanwhile, UK Independent had this:

    US election 2016: Why isn’t the assassination attempt on Donald Trump bigger news?
    The Independent-12 hours ago
    The No. 1 trending question related to Donald Trump on Google right now is “Who tried to shoot Trump?” Which means a lot of people don’t know the answer. Which is probably because the assassination attempt on the presumptive Republican presidential nominee hasn’t been covered as a major news story…

    now imagine if the assassination attempt had been on Clinton.

    call me a paranoid “conspiracy theorist”. lol.

    40

  • #
    Matty

    Natural June weather or massive cloud seeding drives widespread flooding to prevent many from getting home in time to vote, disrupting EU Referendum.
    Leaves way open to call for another ballot in event of wrong result.
    http://www.businessinsider.com.au/eu-referendum-live-brexit-voting-polls-analysis-reasons-remain-leave-2016-6

    00

  • #

    Ok… having traveled and lived in the north east, and I have friends in both Newcastle and Sunderland, and even knowing they like to differentiate themselves from each other, I can’t work out the difference between them on this vote. Is there a key industry in one or other that is swaying their vote?

    00

  • #
    clipe

    Alex Salmond just conceded on BBC leave is going to win.

    So far Leave 53% Remain 47% 39/382 declared. Turnout 69%

    00

  • #
    Raven

    You can watch the results roll in via The Electoral Commission Twitter feed.

    00

  • #

    From Stettin in the Baltic to Galway on the Atlantic, an iron curtain has descended across Europe. Brexit!

    00

  • #

    The Pound, Dollar, Euro, live coverage just went dark! :-)

    10

  • #
    KinkyKeith

    1:45p.m. And it looks like a Brexit!!

    00

    • #

      When this all settles down next Tuesday Wednesday, it will be the Euro that took the biggest hit against the whole economy! It is only the speculators in the ‘remain’ that have lost their diapers and now going ‘wa,wa’. Everyone else now has new opportunity to be well rewarded for skilful work and renewed personal integrity!! Be wary of those that only promise. Be accepting of those that have clearly demonstrated, that their own word, must be honored above all else!
      All the best! -will-

      20

      • #
        KinkyKeith

        Will, this is perhaps the most inspiring single day of my life.

        A reaffirmation of the truth of democracy; we can still make it work.

        KK.

        00

  • #
    AndyG55

    YeeeHaw..

    Just read that the far-left Tory, Cameron, has resigned. SWEEEEEEEET !!

    Turnbull next !! :-)

    Let’s get rid of this leftist infiltration of reality.!!

    20

    • #
      KinkyKeith

      Australia now needs to have a referendum on whether to do similar to our UN membership.

      There are too many parallels.

      00

      • #
        Egor TheOne

        Today the ‘European Un-elected’.

        Tomorrow the ‘Un-elected Nutters’.

        All the Floggers of CAGW/CACC are closet Marxists and need to be exposed to the general public for the manipulators , liars and thieves that they are!

        This Brexit is just the beginning.

        I would like to hear Monckton’s thoughts on today’s result!

        10