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Bill Shorten wants a lot of new carbon taxes and to help international bankers

 A gift for Turnbull, who doesn’t deserve it.

Welcome to Election-2016 in Australia.

We’ve done this before: Bill Shorten has promised there will be “no carbon tax under Labor”.  This almost exactly mirrors the promise made by Julia Gillard on her way to the most pathetic parliamentary win ever recorded in Australian history. Gillard’s barely-there-with-the-help-of-two-turncoats-success was based on this infamous deceit, which Mr Bill Shorten approved of and voted in. Channelling Gillard-2010

At least he is kinda upfront about saying there will be no tax apart from a lot of new taxes he calls trading schemes. What kind of trade are you forced by law to make? A tax…

“There will be no carbon tax under Labor, there will be no fixed price under Labor, what we are doing instead is we are working with the market to create an Emissions Trading Scheme,” Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said.

He is offering a kind of “Cap N Trade”, which is bound to suit all the Aussies who’ve been lining up at protests saying “No Carbon Tax. We want Cap N Trade”. Have you met one ? Me neither.

Let’s not forget the advantages of trading versus taxes:

  1. Markets are forever. They create property rights and are almost impossible to unwind. (Too bad, ye voters).
  2. An ETS would create lots of jobs (in China).
  3. Fake markets feed fraud and corruption (we need more financial sharks right?).

A carbon tax-trade thing only hurts big “polluders”, and people who do things like heating, cooling, or travelling.

“There will be an ETS for electricity generators

Translated — will be a tax for electricity consumers,

“…and a separate one for businesses in other industries who emit more than 25,000 tonnes of carbon pollution per year.

And another tax for consumers buying things off big business.

Labor heard the wrong message:

“Shadow environment minister Mark Butler says Labor “heard a very clear message from the Australian people about the carbon tax” and says it will not be returning to that model.

What the Labor Party didn’t hear was that the Australian people didn’t really care about the model. They don’t want to pay more nor vote on this issue. Eighty percent don’t donate to environmental causes. Eighty-eight percent don’t even pay $2 to neutralize their flights. More than half are skeptical in survey after survey.

Can anyone help a poor banker?

Mr Shorten’s plan is to funnel large amounts of money through overseas bankers to buy paper certificates to change the weather.

“Labor said 100 per cent of the offset obligations could be met by buying cheap international permits.

Mr Shorten the-anti-banker-man wants a Royal Commission on Australian Bankers but will be the best friend of financial houses like Deutsche BankCitigroup, Bank of America, Goldman Sachs etc et al. The large financial houses have been lobbying for international carbon markets for years. The largest fiat commodity market in existence? A license to print…

But lets not forget that Turnbull is planning a carbon trading-tax scheme too. Labor-Liberal, what’s the difference? Australians keep voting “No” and throwing them out, and both parties are still saying “Yes”. Time for an alternative. Please.

Graham Lloyd at The Australian says it’s an uncosted toll with few details that pretends to be a free market thing:

The ALP Carbon tax plan

Federal Labor has set out a sweeping narrative to combat climate change that talks the language of the free market but carries the toolkit of a control and command response.

Fossil-fuel generators will be set against each other to penalise or reward competitors, depending on their relative greenhouse-gas emissions profiles. This will encourage bad coal-power generation to give way to good renewables to meet a target of 50 per cent by 2030.

The government will be the buyer as well as the seller of wind and solar? Righto comrade!

The transition will be helped by the federal government entering power-purchase deals for wind and solar — something electricity companies are unwilling to do — for energy that is already subsidised by renewable energy certificates under the renewable energy target.

Shorten will also make small new cars harder to afford. This will keep more people in old higher-emitting cars for longer.

“Labor also plans to introduce mandatory light vehicle standards, which it says will save drivers $8,500 in fuel costs over the life of car but add $1,500 to the price of a new car in 2025. — ABC

 Car manufacturers are already free to sell cars to voluntary buyers which could “save them $8,500 in fuel bills”. Since they don’t, we can only assume that either drivers don’t want it, can’t afford it, or that the technology doesn’t really exist to do it. Or perhaps there is some other tradeoff that buyers don’t want. Perhaps the “lighter” car is the loser-car in crashes, and speaking from personal experience, when there is an idiot or a tired driver on the road — you don’t want to be in the “lighter car”. It’s a momentum thing.

It’s just another way we get reminded that the only people who really want a Free Market in Carbon are the people who don’t know what a free market is.

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Bill Shorten wants a lot of new carbon taxes and to help international bankers, 8.7 out of 10 based on 72 ratings

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165 comments to Bill Shorten wants a lot of new carbon taxes and to help international bankers

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      Sceptical Sam

      I like the embedded translator. Good innovation. Perhaps that’s why we’re buying $50 billion of French submarines. It’d have nothing to do with South Australia would it.

      After all South Australia is a basket case partly because of its uncompetitive energy prices that flow from the SA Labor Party’s stupid commitment to wind power.

      Now on top of that we’ve got the Federal Labor Party wanting to further damage the competitiveness of Australian industry and the Australian economy by putting in place a dead-weight cost on all elements of the economy.

      These fools should reside in some asylum somewhere. They are clearly insane.

      The only solution – given Turnbull’s equally stupid commitment to the same thing – is to vote for the National Party in the Senate. Give the National Party a big boost as the only sensible anti-ETS (and anti- Carbon dioxide tax) political party. It will ensure, one way or the other, that no ETS gets through the Senate.

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        Graeme No.3

        Sam:
        the only way the Nationals would stop a carbon tax passing the SEnate is if the Greens and Labor voted against as well on the grounds it wasn’t bad enough.

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          Sceptical Sam

          the only way the Nationals would stop a carbon tax passing the SEnate is if the Greens and Labor voted against as well on the grounds it wasn’t bad enough.

          On the current Senate numbers that’s right. But it doesn’t have to be that way in a new Senate following a double dissolution.

          There are two ways that come to mind.

          1. The Nationals form a Coalition government with the Liberals. As part of that arrangement the Nationals implement an agreement along the lines of that which they currently have with the existing Coalition. That is: no Carbon tax or ETS.

          2. The Nationals attract unprecedented support in the Senate from the “No ETS – no Carbon tax” vote.

          In my case I’m in the seat of Curtin; Julie Bishop’s seat. I’ll not vote for her in the Reps because of her disloyalty and Turnbull’s penchant to implement an ETS. Regretably, the Nationals don’t/won’t run a candidate against her, so I can’t vote with them to protest the stupidity of Turnbull and the Liberals. And I’ll not vote Labor. Hence I’ll find an independent to vote for.

          However, for the Senate I can (and will) vote for the Nationals, since the Senate vote is a Statewide vote.

          If all those who oppose the stupidity of an ETS or a Carbon dioxide tax were to do the same, then the Nationals would substantially increase their Senate numbers – perhaps to a point of having the balance of power.

          Graeme No3, I’m open to other suggestions as to how an ETS/Carbon dioxide tax might be opposed and hopefully defeated. Do you have any?

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            Graeme No.3

            Sam:
            Your bit about the Nationals pinning Malcolm down in writing is the only solution that I can see. The only way Labor will abandon carbon taxes etc. is a savage backlash and a lot of ex-Union heavies becoming unemployed, and thanks to our Glorious Leader that isn’t going to happen. As for the Greens they will keep pushing for even more severe restrictions regardless. My fear is that Malcolm will do a deal with the opposition to pass his pet project.
            That’s of course if he wins the election.

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              Sceptical Sam

              The temerity of the Liberals appears to know no bounds.

              Either that or they read Jo’s block and are starting to wake up to their own stupidity.

              I’ve just received another begging letter from no other than Tony Nutt (well named, don’t you think?), Liberal Party National Campaign Director.

              This is what it says:

              Dear (Me)

              At the last election, Australians made it very clear that they rejected Labor’s carbon tax.

              In office, Labor had imposed the world’s biggest carbon tax (despite promising not to) and put up electricity prices for every Australian family.

              Yesterday Bill Shorten announced that he wanted to re-introduce this tax on electricity.

              But he didn’t have the honesty to tell Australian families how much it will cost them.

              Labor’s own modelling, however, shows that to reach a target similar to Labor’s, wholesale electricity prices would need to be 78% higher in 2030.

              This would drive up costs for Australian families, pensioners and businesses.

              David, we need your help to stop Bill Shorten from hitting Australians with yet another electricity tax.

              Can you donate $15, $35 or $50 to our campaign to stop Bill Shorten’s carbon tax?

              This election is critical and we need your help to ensure we stop Bill Shorten becoming Prime Minister.

              Regards,

              Tony Nutt
              National Campaign Director
              Liberal Party of Australia

              PS – Please help us stop Bill Shorten’s carbon tax coming back by making a contribution to our election campaign here.

              All he needeed to say was this:

              Dear (Me)

              This letter will confirm that the Liberal Party will not (Repeat: will not) enact a Carbon tax or an ETS in any shape or form if it is re-elected at the forthcoming election.

              If Bill Shorten’s Labor Party is elected to government you will see a return to the economic damaging policies of the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd days. None of us want to see that.

              Please slip me $50 to help get this message out.

              Yours sincerely,

              Malcolm Turnbull

              Prime Minister of Australia.

              Hope springs eternal.

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                AndyG55

                When Turnbull says this EMPHATICALLY on EVERY news report for 2 weeks at least..

                I might believe him… maybe.

                I doubt that being compared to Gillard for BASICALLY LYING would sit well with his ego. !!

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              • #
                AndyG55

                Would love that email address.

                I few grains of truth would do this fool a lot of good.

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            • #
              Sceptical Sam

              Blog.

              Jo’s blog.

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          • #
            KinkyKeith

            You’ve got me there.

            I was going to vote independent but Nationals, assuming they can stand up to the libs, would be a more useful option.

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            PeterPetrum

            SS – you might like to consider a vote for your ALA (Australian Liberty Alliance) candidate in the Senate. I heard the candidate in your State speak in Melbourne last night, along with several other ALA candidates from other states, and all sounded very sensible. Their manifesto on environmental issues is not specific, but it is clear that they intend to put people first. This was emphasised last night.

            Currently, the ALA has six candidates standing in Queensland, NSW, VIC, SA and WA. More are planned – they could form a very powerful, conservative, group in the Senate. They are very strong on freedom of thought and speech.

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            clive

            Vote ALA in the senate.

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            • #
              Glen Michel

              Will be urging people to vote Joyce in Reps. and ALA in the Senate. It would make me rather cranky if Windsor got in.The stench of hypocrisy goes with him.

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              • #
                Ted O'Brien.

                In the senate the coalition is predetermined. The Nationals run on the Liberals’ ticket.

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        Analitik

        South Australia is a basket case partly because of its uncompetitive energy prices that flow from the SA Labor Party’s stupid commitment to wind power

        Right now, 12:23pm AEST, 37 MW is being generated by the 1400 odf MW of wind turbines and I’m guessing SFA solar input too from the rainfall rader. Meanwhile, the Northern Plants at Port Augusta are chugging away at 100% capacity providing over 500MW to the grid. Lucky it’s not May yet else they’d be gone.

        Admittedly, the Torrens plants aren’t fully ramped up but come summer…

        And then as Mikkey has pointed out, Torrens A closes in 2017 – another 480MW gone.

        How will those subs ever get built?

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        • #
          Andrew McRae

          The French chief engineer will bring a nuclear power plant from home, with a couple of wall socket adaptors.
          C’est bon.

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        Lord Jim

        In other words Turnbull et al, having opposed an ETS cannot now enact one.
        To do so would be to repeat Gillard’s ‘there will be no carbon tax’ catastrophe.
        So, we should actually thank the ALP for running so hard on this as it has forced the Liberals to draw a very hard distinction between themselves and the ALP.
        Plus, on current form to pass an ETS Turnbull would need to dissolve the Liberal-National co-alition.
        I think he would not have enough seats in the lower house to do so.

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          Sceptical Sam

          In other words Turnbull et al, having opposed an ETS cannot now enact one.

          Where and when did he and “they” do this?

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          • #
            Lord Jim

            That is their election platform: that Shorten’s ETS is a new carbon tax.
            How do you think it will go down if having slammed Shorten for his ETSs they bring in one of their own.

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            • #
              Sceptical Sam

              Maybe, Lord Jim…

              But if you read the fund-raising letter from Tony Nutt that I posted at 1.1.1.1.1 above you’ll see he only refers to Shorten’s Carbon tax and Labor’s Carbon tax. There’s no mention of an ETS.

              Sneaky and tricky they are.

              Assume nothing.

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          clive

          I wouldn’t count on anything from Turdbull.Remember Gillards “No carbon tax from a Government I lead”

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        • #
          AndyG55

          Liberals MUST come out and CATEGORICALLY STATE that they will put no price or trading scheme of ANY sort on the emissions of Carbon Dioxide.

          Until they do that, they are just a weak version of the Labor/Greens

          The Liberals need to give conservatives a reason to vote for them.

          At the moment the only reason given seems to be that Shorten would be worse…. compared to Turnbull, that is highly debatable.

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      • #
        ghl

        Sam
        That only works if the Nats commit against an ETS.

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    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      Thank you huemaurice. We’ll take note of that.

      Now I ask people to look at this one on your blog! http://huemaurice5.blogspot.com.au/2014/10/la-culture-de-la-terre-interdite-en.html

      Very like the approach of the originally proposed ETS in Australia. Tax food production out of existence, for the purpose of eliminating all private ownership and management of industry.

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  • #
    mark

    It is a pity Nick Xenophon is not a bit more aggressive on climate change. ‘When it comes to climate change, the very least we can do is to give the planet the benefit of the doubt.’ At least he seems to admit that some doubt might legitimately exist. But I don’t see him as a warrior for common sense with this issue.
    On another note, it will be interesting to see who has a road to Damascus moment (or a very quiet reshuffle of priorities) if Donald Trump gets in and trashes the whole game.

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    mark

    I’d love to believe that Malcolm Turnbull is just play acting the whole thing because he knows it appeases the current president of our closest ally. It is a useful strategy for a middle power to go to war alongside a very powerful friend. We do this militarily, and I see no reason why we might not do this for the war on air. I use the recent CSIRO climate change research redirection to provide some hope that MT might, in his heart of hearts, know better…

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      You assume that politicians have the ability to think strategically. They do not. They hire people to do that sort of thinking for them.

      They are, however, reasonably good at thinking tactically, at least in terms of winning the next argument, and then making it appear as though what happened was all part of some larger ineffable plan, that you needn’t worry about, because you wouldn’t be able to appreciate the subtlety anyway.

      What they are best at, is in producing ambiguous and confusing statements, as a knee-jerk reaction to what their opponents have said; in the knowledge that their press officer will find a way to massage and mangle the words, in a way that looks reasonably coherent to your average voter.

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        Graeme No.3

        Rereke:

        A typo. Your first line should start “You assume that politicians have the ability to think.”

        Looking at our ‘choices’ in the coming election I repeat Xavier Herbert “Poor fella, my country”.

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          Rereke Whakaaro

          I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt, at least as a starting point.

          In fact, politicians do think, and make decisions, in the same way that a sea anemone will decide to pull its tentacles in, if it thinks it has caught a fish.

          As for the rest of your response, I agree. Your politicians always seem to prove the point, that the lightest-weight thinkers always float to the top.

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          Another Ian

          Graeme

          Correction IMO

          “A typo. Your first line should start “You assume that politicians have the ability to think of other than themselves.” ”

          My father had a saying

          “A statesman is someone who does something for his country

          A politician is someone who does something for some thing”

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        Analitik

        I think Turnbull is a highly strategic thinker but his entire strategy revolves around staying in office so he can direct policy towards his investments.

        His problem is that in trying to play both sides of the street, he will eventually get hit by traffic from both directions. If you read the green/renewables sites, you will find they are just as disappointed by him as we are, here.

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          el gordo

          …and talking to the green blob rank and file on the ground they have no intention of voting for the Libs.

          Caught between a rock and a hard place the only way out is massive infrastructure spending and pork barrelling.

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          AndrewWA

          Turnbull is the nearest character we have to Al Gore.

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      yippiy

      I’ll believe the spots have changed when, to rescue the budget, the PM cancels all future funding for projects to change the climate in any way. Anyone for the odds?

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  • #

    It’s a pity that our politicians in general do not have any real understanding of the global warming hypothesis, or much of a technical nature for that matter, and its failure to produce any accurate forecast so far, just hyperbole. In scientific terms it should have been discarded long ago as there has been no significant warming for twenty years, apart from the alteration and replacement of actual measurements with computer generated data. An increase of about one degree celsius in global temperature since the mid 1800′s when the planet was emerging from the Little Ice Age is hardly runaway warming.

    As to renewable energy both solar and wind energy will never replace the oil/gas/coal stations as they are unable to supply 24/7 power. For the past two months the 3668 MW of wind turbines we have only produced approx. 800 MW or about 23% of their nameplate capacity, with several 24 hr. periods of production down to 200 MW. With solar power the Royalla plant produces its 100 MW between 10 am. and 2 pm. (except for cloludy days) and a little either side and nothing between 5 pm and 8 am, 15-16 hours. The AEMO site provides these data. So if Australia goes down the path of renewable energy where is the back-up power going to come from to keep the lights when the coal stations are phased out?

    When it comes to scenarios for producing equivalent renewable energy the size of wind or solar farms is daunting. Mr. Shorten’s 50% renewable by 2030 is little more than a joke. Say 50% of 30,000 MW capacity, or 15,000 MW means around 21,000 sq. km. of wind turbines, about twice the area of Metropolitan Sydney and three times that of Melbourne, or a square about 150 km. x 150 km., and by 2030! Not to mention the back-up generation required for the time the wind turbines are mainly idle.

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      peter

      Robert, on your figures each MW of wind turbines would require 1.4 km2 or more area than 1km x 1km. Is that true?

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      • #

        I believe the actual yield of wind turbines are about 1.4 MW per sq. km. so it should be 15,000 / 1.4 or 10,700 sq. km. My mistake. The Macarthur Windfarm is 5,500 ha. for a rated capacity of 420 MW so for 15,000 MW the estimate is 15,000/ 420 x 4 x 5500 ha. = 785,714 ha. or 7,857 sq. km. It is a huge amount of land to put under windfarm.

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        • #
          Graeme No.3

          It depends very much on the site, especially the latitude, as the closer to the polar regions the heavier the wind. I have seen a report of 2.6MW per sq. km. but that was exceptional. 2.0MW per sq. km. is achievable in theory in Australia, but you have to factor in that as more turbines are built they will be on poorer sites, so 1.4 is a good figure.

          If Shorten thinks he can power Australia with wind turbines he will have to work out how much it will cost to tow Australia down into the Roaring forties or a bit further, because the wind there will be more reliable. Offset that by the loss of asian tourism to Qld. and the loss of exports on TV shows like Neighbours.

          20

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    pattoh

    With the whole world going to Hell in a Handbag compliments of the International Bankers from Threadneedle & Wall Streets & all of their instruments playing overt & covert to fan the flames of destruction; we here in Aus have a pair of Toadies grandstanding, spruiking their arrogant ignorant stupidity each trying to out do each other with oily hollow rhetoric & promises.( while simultaneously telling the network of international bankers & NWO Megalomaniacs that they want to be part of the team of slave masters)

    Over the Big Puddle, “the Donald” is steaming ahead primarily because he is riding a wave of frustration & publicly calling “Bullshit” on the elite banker’s system of control.

    However a gem which sheds light on the whole crew appeared recently:-
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-26/trump-and-hillary-refuse-explain-why-they-both-share-same-address-delaware

    Donald & Hillary share the same address in the same Delaware Tax Haven company office.

    Well we know Malcolm at least, the man who currently enforces the Tax regime here in Australia, has at least one vehicle in the Caribbean……….

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  • #
    Manfred

    Taxes. Today, seemingly the answer to almost every ill alleged to beset us, imagined or otherwise. That double ‘benefit’ political blunt club, garnering monies and regulating behaviour, because we’re the Ministry of We Know Best For Your Own Good and we do just that.

    The massive cultural paradigm shift in the accepted use of taxes toward behavioural modification is blatant thievery twice over, literally stealing our freedom as it does the effort of our work.
    Nanny State. Nothing more than a thug in drag.

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  • #

    Bloody ‘ell, will they ever learn? No means no!

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      pattoh

      Love it ADE:-

      “What part of the word NO do you not understand?”

      ( I never thought I’d get a giggle out of that line )

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      Only newly post-pubescent boys think that “No!” means “maybe?”.

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    Yonniestone

    The only “carbon pollution” in Australia ATM is the rank and file drifting around Canberra’s Parliament, Australians will soon realise they have been bullied into accepting the failed Republic model offered in 1999 that was rejected on the grounds of us wanting to DIRECTLY elect our head of state, not have a bunch of greedy sell out troughers play follow the leader to the detriment of everyone else but a select few.

    While they may look upon apparent ‘lesser’ people like myself as a means to their end I would like to remind them Revolutions have started for less with the results not favourable to ill gotten gains and sometimes the ability to continue being “carbon pollution”.

    It seems Mark twain’s quote ‘If voting made any difference they wouldn’t let us do it.’ is accurate in this country but I and many others have had an absolute gut full of cultural Marxism masquerading as Democracy and meekly accepted by the majority, if voting can’t change this then I’ll take to the streets as I have in recent times and at least get to look my enemy in the eye for once.

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    handjive

    Turnbull & Shorten: The Dodgy Brothers and ‘climate cheats’ …

    “With Australia on course to meet its 2020 targets – largely thanks to surplus credits earned during the Kyoto Treaty period – the cost to households and companies “would be minimal” over the next few years, said Mark Butler (shadow enviro minister for LaboUr).”

    > Wait. What? Would they be the same ‘credits’ as used in New Zealand?

    NZ climate minister considers cancelling ‘dodgy’ surplus Kyoto credits

    “New Zealand’s Climate Change Minister Paula Bennett is considering cancelling 122.2 million surplus Kyoto units, a move that might also spur the government to impose tougher targets on ETS sectors.

    It comes amid heightened public attention on New Zealand’s climate policy in the wake of a report released last week that said the reliance on ‘dodgy’ Eastern European carbon credits rendered the country “climate cheats”.
    > > >
    What about denying the ’97% settled science’?

    “incorrect, naïve and misleading”

    “While senior ministers in the Liberal government are still disputing whether the ‘science is settled’ on [Global Warming], Labor knows it is,” Mr Shorten said.”

    Dr John Church, FAA, FTSE, FAMS, CSIRO Fellow recently penned an open letter regarding CSIRO cuts:

    “The idea that climate science is now “done”, and that we can dispense with it as we move onto mitigation and adaptation is incorrect, naïve and misleading.”
    . . .
    Prepare the tar & feathers.

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    Peter C

    Dr John Church is motivated by the purest altruism

    I and many of my colleagues have worked exceptionally hard and taken on significant responsibilities over many years as part of our commitment to the welfare of humankind and the environment.

    But he still did not explain the science of climate change except for; we have to keep doing it and we need more money!

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    • #

      Looking at the news this morning one can see the backdrop of the Penitentary at Port Arthur, where there will be a memorial service at midday.

      Dr. Church would have us believe that sea levels are rising though the Penitentary (circa 1850) is still well above high tide level.

      70

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    Peter C

    Reply to handjive at #8 with quotation from dr John Church letter CSIRO,
    https://csirostaffassociation.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/john-church-to-dr-marshall_april2016.pdf

    50

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    A tax by any other name is still a tax — except to a politician.

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    David S

    The irony is that if western governments bring in these ridiculously futile sacrifices to the god Gaia and that if the world fails to warm as I suspect it won’t over the next ten years they will claim that their expensive measures are working. Much the same as the measures taken to stop the hole in the ozone layer must’ve worked because we don’t complain about it any more. OR maybe they’ll realise that there was no problem in the first place. I can’t believe it but I think we need to have Donald Trump in the White House to save humanity from the scourge of global warming alarmism.

    80

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    RobertR

    Back in my days as an undergraduate at Sydney University, as an interesting diversion, we used to study the behaviour of the more radical of our fellow students in terms of the research we were doing in the psych lab.
    In those days though nobody took these radicals’ fift communist, (whoops, I mean columnist) ideas very seriously, because there was no chance that their destructive ideas would ever get into the general policy. Or so it seemed at the time.
    But now days it is a different story. These people have rebadged themselves ‘progressives’, got themselves in control of the media and have infultrated educational institutions so they can influence our kids. Now these radicals call us radicals if we speak out against their anti social and destructive ideas!
    Their next step….. indoctrinate the masses with climate change rubbish so they can remove all the fossil fuel industry. If they get their way, Newcastle, the largest coal port in the world, for example, would become just a ghost town and Australia’s economy would crash. And so called third world countries would have far less access to affordable fuel.
    So world poverty would rise dramatically. Obviously this poverty increase does not worry them as it is not really part of their agenda to worry about poverty, even though they’d have you believe that this is a big part of their raison d’être.
    To go to Melbourne you couldn’t take a fossil fueled plane, you’d have to take a fast electric train trip, if the wind is blowing the wind turbines or the sun is shining on the solar installations that is! Is this why fast train networks are now the flavour of the month? There has got to be some reason why they all want these fast trains, any other reason escapes me. OMG you’d only be able to travel in daylight or in blustery weather!
    Even halfwits must be able to see the implications of their ideas so it is obvious they have a separate hidden plan.
    Should we use the analogy of fifth columnists prior to the outbreak of WW2 to understand what their agenda really is? The mind boggles!

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    AndyG55

    If Malcolm were to turn around and say…

    1. there will be no price of any sort put on carbon while he is PM.

    2. we shall hold firm on border security

    3. we shall have the SSM plebiscite

    4. we will act like a conservative government should….

    … he can still rescue his ego from a complete thrashing at the next election.

    While there is no major issue differentiating the two parties, Shorten will always beat Turnbull.

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    • #
      el gordo

      The Double Dissolution is unhelpful, otherwise Australians would have voted at roughly the same time as in the US. The Donald or Cruz would have debated Hillary on climate change and the MSM run with it so we could have a debate.

      By going early Talcum avoids explaining anything on climate change, the science is settled, let’s get on with mitigation.

      Its enough to make grown man weep.

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      Another Ian

      Move over Jesus – Malcolm is the new messiah.

      Making Bill Shorten look electable sure beats walking on water and the loaves and fishes job!

      IMO and /s just in case

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      AndyG55

      I’m just trying to imagine what it will do to his manic ego when he is beaten by Shorten, of all people. !!!! :-)

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      Sceptical Sam

      The only addition to that list Andy G55 is :

      - Repeal of section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act.

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  • #

    The unions are still surprisingly quiet on this, considering that there is a very real threat of massive job losses in the Latrobe Valley if Labor’s plans go ahead (assuming they win office). It’s not just 3000 or so jobs in the power industry at stake, it’s the all the supporting industry, shops, trades, schools, other service facilities etc that will also effectively disappear, or reduce significantly.

    90

    • #
      ianl8888

      …. sigh

      It’s not even the direct impact on jobs. Surely you are aware the LaTrobe, through Yallourn and Loy Yang (Hazelwood barely matters much), supplies over 80% (!) of Victoria’s power and even more pointedly, over 85% of Melbourne’s power.

      Turning that off so you can use intermittent wind and some midday solar is absolutely lunatic … it won’t happen, so the unions are not peturbed

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      • #

        The intent is to tax emissions and invariably that will impact on the viability of the Latrobe Valley power stations. Also, by wanting to go to zero emissions, the only thing that can follow is the closure of coal fired power stations etc.

        The unintended consequences will be the effect on all of Victoria’s and ultimately Australia’s industry. Even if these power stations are used as backup to whatever extent (unlikely), the cost of power will kill industry and we’ll start seeing the same results as they are in the UK with industries closing, as well as energy poverty that’s being experienced throughout Europe.

        Once it begins, it can’t be easily stopped and by the time it begins to sink in, it may be too late. What a wonderful outlook.

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        • #
          Analitik

          You don’t have to look that far – just over the border, South Australia is providing a first class demonstration of the effects of intermittent power generation on industry.

          I actually want the proposed 110 MW CSP plant get built in Port Augusta (vs the 784 MW of closed or closing brown coal generation). Its failure would drive the nail further into the coffin of that great green hope as CSP with molten salt storage is their current answer to the intermittency of renewables.

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          • #
            Robk

            You have high expectations. A failure is worn as a badge of honour and endeavor by the climate worriers.

            40

        • #

          bemused mentions this: (my bolding here)

          The intent is to tax emissions and invariably that will impact on the viability of the Latrobe Valley power stations. Also, by wanting to go to zero emissions, the only thing that can follow is the closure of coal fired power stations etc.

          The intent is to make money from it.

          They won’t close those coal fired power plants, because they have nothing to replace them with, and if they close, then there goes the source of their money.

          They place a cap on emissions. The plant operators pay for all emissions. If they exceed the cap, they have to pay for credits for that, and they then have to pay double extra as a fine, then have the excess deducted from next year’s lowered cap.

          The electrical power is always required, so it’s not a case of reaching the cap, and then stopping the plant.

          They make money hand over fist. If those plants close, no more money.

          And the operators just pass ALL their costs down to consumers with the increased cost for electricity.

          So, it’s not a tax on the emitters, but a direct cost to all consumers of electricity, eg, a TAX on the public.

          Tony.

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    Ted O'Brien.

    The Marxist ALP wants a carbon tax/ETS because that is the last vehicle they need to complete the ‘socialisation” of Australian industry. To abolish private management in industry.

    Despite the glaring inequity and strong protestation, the original proposal for an ETS intended to tax Agriculture’s supposed recycled “emissions” on the same basis as fossil “emissions”. Only after the real world accountant Barnaby Joyce raised the protest to a level that not even the Liberals could ignore was Agriculture put in the too hard basket. It wasn’t taken away from the table.

    The intention of that original ETS proposal was clear, even if Barnaby Joyce was the only bloke who could see it. They resisted the protestation for as long as they could get away with it. It would have bankrupted Australia’s grazing industries within two years, and probably most of Agriculture’s other sectors too. this would have enabled a government to direct that 60% of Australia’s land area which is used for grazing into new ownership without compensating current owners.

    Gillard’s Carbon Tax was a Trojan Horse which could and would have been used to reinstate that tax on Ag’s recycled carbon, and Shorten’s ETS would do the same.

    This came under the wider population’s radar because only Ag and Forestry have significant recycled carbon. And Ag is the last sector of the Australian economy still dominated by small business capitalism.

    Time here too to note that fools in high places say that foreign investors can’t take the farms out of Australia. We can’t take their money without incurring heavy responsibilities, either. Such thinking lies on the road to war.

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    Another Ian

    In the “probably shouldn’t post in case it gives ideas” department

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2016/04/go-east-young-c.html

    and link

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  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Lest we forget …. that bankers funded both sides in WW2…..

    Made a killing….

    /sarc

    30

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Yep.

      And so did the manufacturers.

      Vickers used Krupps fuses in its shells and made payment to the German company for the use of its IP.

      British Whitehead torpedoes were used by navies on all sides. they were manufactured in Britain and Trieste. Payment was made into a Swiss escrow account with settlement to be made after hostilities had ceased.

      In WW2 Dunlop tyres were made in Birmingham and Hanau, with the Dunlop tyre company benefiting from payments by both side.

      40

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        I stumbled across a doco or book, whereby it was known that trade unionists refused to load cargo ships during WW2 in Australia to deliberately interrupt supplies to troops.

        Its a little secret that the Left dont want published loudly, but it should be.

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  • #
    TdeF

    98% of the CO2 comes from overseas, from Europe, China and India who all want cash.

    In 1900, the population of China was 400million and India 280million. So 700million people. They have each increased by a Billion people and at 3 tons of CO2 per person, output far more new CO2 in breathing than the whole of Australia but we have to pay. Are they buying carbon credits? No, China even receives carbon cash for building hydro schemes. You could call it an Exhalation Tax System.

    So whatever you call it, this is a massive penalty on Australians alone? What crime are we committing? What does it achieve?

    External Tax System

    It is surrendering our Sovereign rights as a country, to allow unelected and unnamed people overseas to tax us at their whim for no particular purpose. It is madness.

    All this for the Green vote at the election and control of the Senate. Shorten will be shattered when the Greens align with the Liberals anyway. All those votes lost for nothing.

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    • #
      TdeF

      At least with the utterly unfair Carbon Tax, the money stayed in the country. This is a foreign tax.

      Whatever happened to no taxation without representation?

      Why should we pay to generate our own CO2 when no one else does?

      Carbon Money in Europe is just shuffled around the EU, like wine and cheese. It is not a real ‘market’ and not in anything with any tangible value. They are just waiting for mug Australians to bring in real cash for their worthless paper, in the same way the Names of Lloyd’s of London wait for rich colonials like Malcolm Fraser to take on the disastrous and unlimited insurance risks. The worst offenders, as with the GFC, are the people who create and handle the money for big fees, merchant banks like Turnbull’s Goldman Sachs.

      It is beyond belief that our useless politicians, always hungry for other people’s money, want to send new taxes overseas at a time when we are borrowing $4n a month just at the Federal level and paying $1.5Bn a month in interest and climbing. We are trashing our own AAA rating and then the cost of money goes up as well. The fear is that left to overpaid public service politicians, all our standard of living will be exported like our manufacturing. They can then visit the French or get jobs with the UN.

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    • #
      clive

      So,stop voting for these”Do Nothing,Career Politicians”ALA,Nats,or Independents in the Senate,seems the way to go.

      00

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  • #
    KinkyKeith

    The weight of Climate Change propaganda out there on the net as the only accessible opinion on the topic is astounding.

    I was recently pointed to a series of talks on current matters and went there TED, to have a look.

    The Pro Catastrophe view was the only one. available.

    Watch youtube Lord Puttnam from Ireland explain how he is single handedly saving the planet with everybody’s tax dollar.

    As he explains to those in the scientific community, he is well qualified.

    Check out his qualifications.

    Kk

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    • #
      TdeF

      A filmmaker talking about slavery, tobacco and economics and deniers. A well meaning non scientist who has no objective ability to analyse what he is told. Tax will save the planet. In fact it will continue abject poverty in the third world by making energy too expensive. All the windmills and solar farms are in rich countries with no energy shortage.

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    pat

    at least some folks are getting restless:

    27 Apr: Cairns Post: Daniel Bateman: Great Barrier grief for Greens Senators during planned Cairns visit
    THE Great Barrier Reef could be a no-go zone for the Greens, with the party barred from visiting the natural wonder by Cairns’ marine tourism industry.
    Greens Leader Richard Di Natale and Senator Larissa Waters are expected to be in Cairns today to inspect coral bleaching with scientists and local tourism operators.
    Several major operators, however, have refused the party’s request to ferry the senators and their entourage offshore to observe bleached coral, fearing the “publicity stunt” could damage their industry…
    Cairns Professional Game Fishing Association president Daniel McCarthy said he and other operators were taking a stand against the Greens’ exaggerated claims about the extent of the natural phenomenon.
    “They told me they wanted to see badly bleached areas, which obviously suggests they want a doom and gloom story,’’ he said.
    “It’s quite obvious to me that they want a very negative story to ramp up their argument about coal mining, and are quite willing to sacrifice the reputation and thousands of jobs that rely on the health of the Great Barrier Reef to push another agenda.”…
    http://www.cairnspost.com.au/news/cairns/great-barrier-grief-for-greens-senators-during-planned-cairns-visit/news-story/a5ca5bdbabe973762191d4e5c3971ab2

    26 Apr: CairnsPost: Daniel Bateman: Moore Reef off Cairns already recovering from coral bleaching
    A POPULAR diving spot off Cairns is already starting to show signs of recovering from the worst coral bleaching event witnessed on the Great Barrier Reef.
    It comes as research has found a way corals may survive bleaching, enabling them to become more heat tolerant…
    Minor bleaching has been recorded at the popular Moore Reef, about 40km off Cairns, but reef operator Sunlover Reef Cruises says the diving hot spot is already starting to show signs of recovery.
    The business, alongside ­Calypso Reef Imagery, has released a video to try to turn the tide of public opinion that the world’s reef is dying.
    Calypso cameraman Stuart Ireland, who is a marine bi­ologist and underwater ­photographer with more than 30 years’ experience, said Moore Reef was as healthy and as vibrant as it had ever been.
    “The expected recovery seems to be progressing well,’’ he said. “In the many years that I have lived and worked with the Great Barrier Reef, I have always been impressed by its ability to regenerate and recover from these bleaching ­episodes which have occurred in the past.”…
    Meanwhile, Southern Cross University researchers have shown for the first time that corals surviving bleaching events can acquire and host new types of algae from their environment, potentially making corals more heat-tolerant…
    “Our study shows for the first time that some adult corals can be promiscuous, and swap their algae partners later in life. This algae partner-swapping could help corals to better adapt to climate change and survive bleaching events if they can acquire more heat-tolerant microalgae.”…
    http://www.cairnspost.com.au/business/moore-reef-off-cairns-already-recovering-from-coral-bleaching/news-story/7fa4253926fc8244258f40c999a57fb2

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    pat

    27 Apr: CarbonPulse: Stian Reklev: Australian ‘soft start’ ETS would seek links to international carbon market, but demand seen limited
    Industries facing international competition would be allowed to use UN-issued CERs – currently trading in the EU market at A$0.59 – to meet their full obligation…
    After an initial two-year ‘slow start’ period, Labor said it would introduce a tighter ETS in 2020 with caps set in line with the 45% carbon reduction target by 2030.
    Rules and regulations for the post-2020 period would be hammered out over the next three years, including the possibility of formal linking to other schemes, the plan said…
    However, the use of CERs after 2020 remains a question. The Kyoto Protocol expires in 2020 and the market-based text in the Paris Agreement does not make any references to the CDM…
    “The different access of market segments to international permits will lead to the creation of multiple carbon markets, including different prices for Australian Electricity Sector Credits (AESCs), CERs, and ACCUs with the possibility of price differentiation by category,” wrote Reputex…
    “What they’re proposing is to double the burden on Australia, relative to other countries … When a similar target was modelled on the basis of Labor’s previous scheme, it would have required a very substantial increase in electricity prices,” Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull told ABC radio.
    “This is yet another economic handbrake that Labor is putting on our economy, another restraint on jobs to add to all the other job-destroying measures they’re proposing.”
    But others were more positive.
    “The energy industry has backed an efficient, national and market-based approach to emissions reduction for the past decade, and today’s plan is a step towards that objective,” said Matthew Warren, chief executive of the Australian Energy Council…
    Jennifer Westacott, chief executive of the Business Council of Australia, also welcomed Labor’s proposal…
    Meanwhile, the Climate Institute’s John Connor “welcomed the ALP’s recognition that carbon pricing is a necessary but not sufficient part of the policy toolbox.”
    “We need a policy package that replaces high-polluting coal power with clean energy, and supports communities and workers through this transition.”…
    http://carbon-pulse.com/18960/

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  • #
    handjive

    I christen thee Boaty McBoatface II
    . . .
    “A new era of Antarctic engagement was announced today by the Turnbull Government, with the launch of the Australian Antarctic Strategy and 20 Year Action Plan.

    The acquisition of a world-class icebreaker for resupply and multi-disciplinary science represents the largest ever investment by Australia in our Antarctic program.”

    Wait. What? The ice is melting!

    AGW is expected to be more rapid and severe in polar regions compared to other places on Earth.
    . . .
    Competition to name icebreaker will ‘avoid Boaty McBoatface situation’, minister says

    Boaty McBoatface II is what it will be called.

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    • #
      TdeF

      We are expected to believe that an increase of 0.5C is devastating the world’s sea ice and land ice? Before electronics it was hard to even get an absolute accuracy in the field of 0.5C. With summer and winter averages in Antarctica of -25C to -50C, how does even 2C make a difference?

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    • #
      el gordo

      For the name of the new ship I nominate ‘Pork Barrel’.

      ‘The Australian and Tasmanian governments will continue to work to enhance Tasmania’s status as a global Antarctic research hub and the premier Gateway to East Antarctica, including the expansion of infrastructure in Hobart to accommodate the new icebreaker.’

      20

      • #
        Yonniestone

        I suggest ‘Deal breaker’ :)

        20

      • #
        clive

        The sooner we “Vote”these”Do Nothing,Career Politicians”out ,the better.Just where do they think all this money to pay for this “Icebreaker”is going to come from?

        00

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘Labor said 100 per cent of the offset obligations could be met by buying cheap international permits.’

    Both sides are keen to buy carbon dioxide junk bonds.

    Best bet, we all work diligently to throw the government out of office and reinstate Abbott as Opposition Leader. While he has nothing on his plate it would be a good time to bring him up to speed on climate change.

    100

    • #
      TdeF

      It is essential to get Abbott back before Malcolm brings in his ETS and it will be his first move, supported by all the politicians and none of the people.

      110

      • #
        el gordo

        The green blob and associate leftoids believe the member for Goldman Sachs will abandon action on climate change and eliminate renewable energy.

        There is a lot of confusion out in the electorate, roll on global cooling.

        30

      • #
        gigdiary

        It is essential to get Abbott back before Malcolm brings in his ETS … supported by all the politicians and none of the people.

        Do ‘the people’ even understand what an ETS is?

        50% of Aussies would probably give answers like this:

        I’m not sure, but if it helps the Barrier Reef, I’m in favour of it.

        At least it’s not a carbon tax.

        We’ve got to do something about these coal mines and the pollution they cause.

        If we don’t do something Australia will be a laughing stock.

        It’s about making our big polluters pay.

        It’s about planting trees in Nigeria.

        We have to transition from coal.

        Clean energy and renewables are the way of the future.

        The big polluters must be made to pay, and the banks. What was the question again?

        And that, unfortunately, is how a vast number of voters understand this issue. At the ends of the political spectrum, Greens/leftist voters will vote for an ETS, believing they are saving the planet. Conservatives who have an inkling of the facts will vote to avoid an ETS and any other misguided climate schemes.

        In the middle, the vast number of voters have more pressing concerns than this vague ETS policy. They will vote according to party allegiance, the economy (without realising the effect an ETS would have), and whether they like Turnbull more than Shorten.

        It is essential to get Abbott back before Malcolm brings in his ETS.

        Unfortunately, I don’t see that happening.

        20

    • #

      What is the attraction of the global warming myth to politicians and public servants? The evidence is debatable and mostly to the contrary such as the balloon and satellite data, the oceans are not rising and becoming acidic and carbon dioxide doesn’t seem to be correlated with anything much apart from enhanced plant growth.

      Do they have vested interests in renewable energy schemes?

      Are they trying to keep up with the Jones?

      Are they relying on green support to govern?

      Do they want to save face for being conned in the first place?

      Or do they really believe that renewable energy will save the planet and provide 24/7 cheap
      electricity at the same time?

      Or are they thick?

      Anything else?

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      • #
        el gordo

        ‘Anything else?’

        The propaganda has been highly successful and people from all walks of life have been impacted, particularly women. It has this emotive quality and as a consequence AGW ended up in the education system through to university.

        This is not an organised conspiracy, politicians, scientists and the MSM casually colluded to produce a monster. They aren’t thick, just brainwashed.

        20

      • #
        clive

        All of the above.

        00

  • #
    Analitik

    OT
    Sunshine Coast Solar Farm
    - 15 MW
    - 24 hectares at Valdora (flood prone and presents an engineering challenge)
    - more than 57,000 panels (Trina Solar)
    - 30-year life expectancy
    - 100% offset of council electricity usage
    - millions of dollars in savings to Council over a 30-year period
    - additional electricity generated at the solar farm will be exported back into the grid, thereby creating a potential revenue stream
    - completion in 1st half of 2017
    - cost $48.5 million, incl Research and Development/Visitor Centre ($1m)

    https://www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au/Council/Planning-and-Projects/Major-Regional-Projects/Sunshine-Coast-Solar-Farm

    Let’s see how this one works out, eh?

    50

    • #
      AndyG55

      Coal fired power stations told to shut off connection during sunny days.

      Become uneconomical and shut down.

      Qld relies purely on solar.. and all tourism shuts down because the night life is all gone.

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    • #

      “57,000 solar panels each generating 250 watts of electricity into Energex’s electricity network or 15000 kilowatts.” How many meters square are each of these puppies? 3 square meters? What is the cost to have someone squeegee bird ofal off from each, every third day, in a swamp?
      ,

      30

  • #
    pat

    pushy!

    27 Apr: Gympie Times: How Gympie region farmers can turn carbon into cash
    CARBON farming offers landholders a once in a lifetime chance to secure a 10 year income stream, but the opportunity won’t last forever, according to Josh Harris, from carbon farming project management company Climate Friendly.
    With shifting legislation around vegetation and no word on plans to top up the Emissions Reduction Fund, Josh says property owners who don’t act soon could miss out. 
    The Emissions Reduction Fund started out with $2.55 billion to buy carbon credits from carbon farming programs, which include revegetation or reduced stocking projects. About half the fund has already been allocated.
    “We simply don’t know if there’s more funding coming,” Josh says. “The next round of projects will be awarded in the upcoming auction at the end of April, but it’s unclear what will happen once the current fund is expended after the fourth auction at the end of 2016.”…
    ***Climate Friendly was established by a former CSIRO scientist 13 years ago and currently runs projects over about two million hectares of farmland. Climate Friendly’s clients are enjoying average returns of more than a million dollars over 10 years, with some receiving far more…
    NOTE: The third Emissions Reduction Fund auction will be held today and tomorrow.
    http://www.gympietimes.com.au/news/how-gympie-region-farmers-can-turn-carbon-into-cas/3009420/

    (the massive) Climate Friendly Team
    Joel Fleming, Founding Chairman Climate Friendly
    http://www.climatefriendly.com/about-us/team

    Bloomberg: Joel Fleming, Founding Chairman, Climate Friendly
    Mr. Joel Fleming serves as Founding Chairman at Climate Friendly Pty Ltd. Mr. Fleming is an environmental scientist. He is previously a scientist with CSIRO. His background is in environmental science, scientific software and innovation.

    LinkedIn: Freddy Sharpe, CEO Climate Friendly
    2008 – Present
    Freddy is an experienced presenter and writer and is frequently invited to speak, appear on panels and debate on climate change, sustainability and related topics. For a number of years, he has been honoured to be included in the ABC 100 Global Sustain Ability Leaders, a list of the 100 most influential people who are committed to environmental leadership…

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    pat

    AUDIO: 28 Apr: ABC AM: Labor’s land clearing takeover would lead to rural poverty: farmers
    (summary from AM homepage, no transcript as yet)- Farmers are angry about Labor’s plans for a Commonwealth takeover of land clearing laws. Labor says tighter controls are needed to reduce emissions and stem climate change but farmers says it would result in rural poverty and economic decline…
    http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2016/s4451647.htm

    Fran’s away, but the CAGW propaganda remains on the menu:

    AUDIO: 9mins08secs: 28 Apr: ABC Breakfast: Top UK scientists accuse The Times of ‘poor quality’ reporting on climate change
    Thirteen prominent UK peers, including some of Britain’s most eminent scientists, are all embroiled in an argument with Rupert Murdoch’s The Times newspaper over ‘poor quality’ reporting on climate change. ***Unexpectedly***, it’s turned into a war of words over ‘freedom of the press’ and ‘free speech’, and the political influence of a climate-denying think tank, the Global Warming Policy Foundation.
    Guest: Professor Lord Krebs, Chair, Committee on Climate Change; Former President of the British Science Association; Professor, Department of Zoology, Oxford University
    Further Information: The Guardian: Times’s climate change coverage ‘distorted’ and ‘poor quality’
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/top-uk-scientists-accuse-the-times-of-'poor-quality'/7365650

    rough summary:
    the “eminent” Lord Krebs, (English zoologist researching in the field of behavioural ecology of birds – Wiikipedia) is the only guest.
    says Times tends to have a bias towards papers reported by mysteriously-funded GWPF, dedicated to undermining CAGW science; they cherry-pick. we believe wide range of views is fine, but…Times is systematically misrepresenting the science of climate change. says Times published a riposte by an adviser to GWPF called Matt Ridley (as if Ridley is an unknown).
    ABC: these days there’s more of a political consensus worldwide, but some Ministers in Australia are still questioning the science when the rest of the world has accepted it…
    Krebs: u might call them climate deniers…if that view prevailed & prevented climate action…but Paris proves action has to be taken.
    ABC: that’s right. then on to unprecedented coral bleaching on Gt Barrier Reef, etc. etc.

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    pat

    pre-Breakfast appetiser. ABC inserts CAGW from 11mins 45secs in:

    AUDIO: 17mins42secs: 27 Apr: ABC Religion & Ethics Report: The dark side of Philanthropy
    Giving and charity are good. They help build civil society, which is a critical alternative to the power of the state and the market.
    But what happens when the donor wants to call all the shots?…
    Guest: ***David Callahan, Author and founder of Inside Philanthropy. http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/religionandethicsreport/the-dark-side-of-philanthropy/7363756

    rough summary (guessing Andrew West is the ABC presenter):

    ABC: let’s talk very specifically about one case…american universities…what happened when florida state university received 1 and a half million dollars from Charles Koch who is very much on the right…
    CALLAHAN: responds without mentioning CAGW:
    ABC: playing down climate change was also part of the agenda, which i suspect would be a real problem for many academics and scientists, with the uni receiving Koch money.
    CALLAHAN: well, climate change denial is a great example of the DARK SIDE of philanthropy, with millions and millions of dollars having been funnelled to orgs that have questioned the science of climate change, and called it a theory rather than fact, & sought to obfuscate the debate & otherwise slow any efforts to impose curbs on carbon emissions, so that’s definitely a DARK SIDE example but, on the OTHER SIDE of the ledger, we’ve seen huge investments by philanthropists to push forward more forceful efforts to curb carbon emissions & slow climate change. michael bloomberg has been one of the biggest donors, giving many millions of dollars to help shut down coal-fired plants in the US.
    ABC: and i think the Californian tech entrepreneur, tom steyer, as well
    CALLAHAN: yes, Steyer is another major green philanthropist and leader on climate change.

    ***no surprise, Callahan is one of the founders of progressive left think tank, Demos, & he boasts on his Inside Philanthropy website that “Barack Obama was on our (Demos) board back when he was still an obscure state senator!”.

    ABC calls Inside Philanthropy “influential”, but there’s no reader involvement to speak of – mostly 0 comments, occasionally 1 comment.
    worth noting the following:

    26 Apr: InsidePhilanthropy: Tate Williams: Can Funders Help Filmmakers Connect With the Public on Climate Change?
    Seems like few people would be more eager to elevate climate change awareness using film than Sundance founder and environmental icon Robert Redford. But Sundance just doesn’t get many submissions on the topic. A new philanthropic effort will try to figure out why, while also funding new climate-related film projects…
    LINK: Related: Dear Climate Funders: The Clock is Ticking. Use Your Endowments
    Led by Sundance and its seeming philanthropic soulmate the Robert Rauschenberg Foundation, a new joint project will address the issue by backing film and emerging media projects about climate change and the environment, with a goal of inspiring viewers to take action. Sundance is also starting up a few other closely related environment and film programs with prominent environmental funders like Kendeda Fund, Rockefeller, and the Discovery Channel…

    20

  • #
    pat

    poor Mr. Bonetto, studying weather maps all year and hasn’t heard of El Nino! ABC’s Amanda not keen to tell him or the “highly-educated” Summerell, for whom the climate is changing faster than evolution:

    28 Apr: ABC: Amanda Hoh: Warm April weather delays mushroom foraging season, flowers also affected
    But this year he has been ***studying weather maps instead of the gills of fungi, as unusually hot weather and little rain has delayed the mushroom season.
    “We’re all just sitting here waiting for the weather to cool down and for the rain to come,” Mr Bonetto said.
    “It’s been extremely late, the latest we can ever remember.”…
    “We’re all kind of a bit surprised and we don’t want to say too much because we don’t know, we just want to see what happens.”…
    The warm April weather has not only affected the mushroom season.
    Dr Brett Summerell, mycologist and director of science at the Royal Botanic Garden, said plants growing in Sydney that normally favoured colder temperatures were yet to flower…
    “There’s a potential that they will flower poorly or they might not flower at all.”…
    The late blooms would also affect creatures that relied on nectar in flowers and trees for food such as possums, birds and bats.
    “The changing climate will select out those species that are better adapted to it,” he said.
    “But the climate is changing faster than the rate of evolution and the rate in which plants react, so that has a negative effect…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-28/warm-april-delays-flowers-and-mushrooms-foraging/7366348

    30

  • #
    pat

    still trying to shake down the airlines:

    27 Apr: CarbonPulse: Ben Garside: Airlines will be CDM’s lifeline, but expect CER price slump first, say analysts
    Demand for carbon offsets from airlines can provide a lifeline to the ailing CDM, which in return will be able to comfortably provide supply to an upcoming international market-based mechanism for civil aviation over the next decade, analysts say.
    Just 40% of available CERs over 2020-2030 would be enough meet expected demand from airlines over that period, which is estimated at around 970 million tonnes, according to a study by Thomson Reuters Point Carbon analysts and seen by Carbon Pulse…
    The analysts expect demand from the ICAO scheme will prevent CER prices, currently trading at around €0.40 in the European market, from falling to zero. But they warned of a “demand gap” ahead of 2020 as the little remaining appetite for CERs from emitters in the EU ETS, the biggest buyers of the credits, dwindles…
    FACTFILE
    •Offset supply is currently plentiful. CDM developers are desperately seeking new buyers for hundreds of millions of already-issued carbon credits amid a dearth of demand from governments, which has pushed CER prices from above €20 to unprofitable levels below €1 over the past six years…
    http://carbon-pulse.com/18995/

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    pat

    27 Apr: CarbonPulse: Ben Garside: (Carbon) CN Markets: Hubei CO2 forward contract sees bumper first day
    The forward contract closed at 21.65 yuan ($3.34) after the exchange had set the opening price at 21.56 yuan based on weighted averages in the spot market over the past four weeks.
    According to the exchange, 68,000 lots of 100 allowances each traded, taking the value of the forward trades to 150 million yuan in the first day of dealing, more than most of the other exchanges have seen since their inception…
    Observers were hopeful that a strong forward price in coming weeks could underpin the spot market, but some noted the inherent risk.
    “If the spot price keeps falling the forward contract will get into trouble,” one observer told Carbon Pulse…
    http://carbon-pulse.com/18982/

    27 Apr: ClimateChangeNews: Megan Darby: In pictures: Greenpeace activists scale Turkish coal plant
    Protest highlights climate and local impact of government plans for more than 70 coal power plants
    They unfurled a banner reading “grey and dirty” from the top of a lignite-fired plant in Soma, Manisa.
    The slogan was a rebuttal to President Recep Erdogan’s recent claim to be greener than Greenpeace…
    Turkey has the fourth largest coal project pipeline in the world after China, India and Russia, with more than 70 stations planned…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2016/04/27/in-pictures-greenpeace-activists-scale-turkish-coal-plant/

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    AndyG55

    Just in case any Australian AGW panic cultist comes out with the “extreme weather” farce.

    https://sunshinehours.net/2016/04/27/calmest-australian-cyclone-since-1970/

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      el gordo

      El Nino was a dampener, but of greater importance is the general decline in the number and severity of Australian TC over recent times.

      Pointing to Yasi the warmists say there maybe less but they are becoming more severe and will soon be moving further south into the paths of capital cities like Brisbane and Sydney.

      They have been saying this for a couple of decades but nothing is happening.

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      • #
        Gee Aye

        Is this a gentle way of saying to Andy that the same people he decries as alarmists are the ons who predicted a calm cyclone season (refs Jo’s blog)

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        • #
          AndyG55

          “warmists say there may be less but they are becoming more severe and will soon be moving further south into the paths of capital cities like Brisbane and Sydney.”

          Seems GeeAye can’t read basic text.

          Back to kindy, for Gee Aye.

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            Good god! Andy please!

            “Seems GeeAye can’t read basic text. Back to kindy, for Gee Aye.”

            Your kitten or puppy that you have fed and petted upon for two years, will never lead you astray i.e. over the cliff. Mommy and Daddy are similar, unless you yourself have been extremely nasty. All others only want to take advantage of you, however they can!

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    • #
      el gordo

      I’ll put this up to illustrate the point.

      http://www.bom.gov.au/cyclone/images/tc-graph-1969-2012.png

      During the global warming years of late last century the TC activity was intensified, but in the absence of warming this century there is a decline.

      Its probably just a coincidence.

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    • #
      el gordo

      …and this from last year.

      ‘The southward shift of cyclones under climate change will force planners to demand stronger building standards as far south as Coffs Harbour on the NSW North Coast, Cairns climatologist Steve Turton says.

      ‘Storms such as the category 5 Cyclone Marcia, which crossed the central Queensland coast on Friday, “are going to become more common in the future along the eastern seaboard of Australia,” Professor Turton from James Cook University told Fairfax Media.’

      Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/cyclone-marcia-climate-change-is-expanding-the-tropics-20150220-13kdfi.html#ixzz475z6EBxw
      Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

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    pat

    28 Apr: Australian: Sid Maher: Federal budget 2016: Shift to low emissions ‘to cost billions’
    Electricity generators have warned that the transition of the nation’s power sector to a low-emissions future will “not be costless’’, with about $230 billion in investment required by 2050…
    Grattan Institute energy director Tony Wood said as the electricity sector transitioned from coal to renew­ables, “at some point we are going to pay’’…
    In the absence of a carbon price, brown and black coal remain the lowest-cost fuels for generating power…
    Brett Hogan, director of energy and innovation policy at the Institute of Public Affairs, said: “Residential electricity prices in Germany, Spain and the United Kingdom increased by 78 per cent, 111 per cent and 133 per cent ­respectively between 2005 and 2014. I don’t believe in magic and neither should Australian taxpayers. Claims that carbon dioxide ­reduction policies will have no ­effect on electricity prices should be taken with a grain of salt.”.
    Climate Institute chief executive John Connor said the scaling up of renewable technologies in Germany and then China had contributed to significant cost­reductions in the technologies…
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/budget-2016/shift-to-low-emissions-to-cost-billions-say-generators/news-story/1d48513c71440f1be4dba52ced22f61f

    26 Apr: Reuters: Rory Carroll: Stanford climate activists slam university over fossil fuel vote
    Stanford University’s announcement on Monday that it will not rid its $22 billion endowment of oil and gas companies has raised the ire of campus climate activists, who said on Tuesday they will protest the decision…
    Stanford’s Board of Trustees said that while it will not divest from fossil fuel companies, it would set up a climate task force to solicit ideas from across the Stanford community to address climate change…
    ***”We feel hurt and disappointed that the Stanford administration has chosen to remain invested in fossil fuel companies, in climate injustice, and in the destruction of our future,” said Sophie Harrison, a student and organizer of Fossil Free Stanford…
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-environment-stanford-idUSKCN0XN2WR

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    pat

    27 Apr: Bloomberg: SunEdison Bankruptcy Floods India Market for Green Projects
    by Anindya Upadhyay
    SunEdison Inc.’s bankruptcy filing is reverberating halfway around the world in India, where developers say the U.S. company’s troubles are adding to a surplus of green capacity up for sale…
    Moreover, some projects may have difficulty finding buyers if the delivery deadline set by power purchase agreements is nearing and the projects aren’t yet completed, according to Kailash Vaswani, deputy chief financial officer at ReNew Power Ventures Pvt., an Indian clean-energy company backed by Goldman Sachs Group Inc.
    “If one fails to deliver projects on time, the power purchase agreement is scrapped, so unbuilt projects will find it very hard to be sold if that kind of a time bomb is ticking away,” Vaswani said in an interview in New Delhi on Tuesday. “Many of these assets may not even get built.”…
    Lower prices for solar energy are only desirable so long as they can be maintained, according to International Finance Corp., a unit of the World Bank…
    India already faces several hurdles in financing Modi’s ambitions for renewable energy. Central bank data show that about 14 percent of loans to the industry have soured or been written off…
    “Half of the solar installations in the country are looking for buyers, and it’s a buyers’ market,” said Ravi Khanna, CEO of the solar business at Aditya Birla Group, an Indian manufacturer in the Fortune 500.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-27/sunedison-bankruptcy-floods-india-s-market-for-green-projects

    27 Apr: Reuters: Jessica DiNapoli: How some SunEdison creditors scored a safe, lucrative debt deal
    When a group of hedge funds agreed to lend $725 million to SunEdison Inc – three months before it filed for bankruptcy last week – they secured an unusually generous concession from the U.S. renewable energy company and its other lenders.
    The funds, which at the time included Tennenbaum Capital Partners LLC and Candlewood Investment Group LP, put themselves in a prime position to handle so-called debtor-in-position financing in the event of a bankruptcy.
    Such deals are coveted because they are lucrative and relatively safe. In this case, the loan holders will earn about 10 percent on a $175 million debt that amounts to nearly risk-free investment: SunEdison cannot emerge from bankruptcy unless it repays the money, and any liquidation would almost certainly provide the funds to recoup it…
    SunEdison and Tennenbaum Capital Partners declined to comment. Candlewood Investment Group did not respond to requests for comment…
    Shortly before the bankruptcy filing, the funds also negotiated a second condition that could provide crucial protection for their first loan of $725 million – and bring them up to first position in collecting on collateral…
    As a group, investors lost big on SunEdison, which overextended itself with an acquisition spree of renewable energy projects across the globe. Investors who bet on SunEdison’s shares saw almost $10 billion in value erased since last summer…
    “SunEdison was in great need for financing just months before bankruptcy,” he (John Sirico, analyst at credit research firm Covenant Review) said. “The second lien lenders had greater leverage.”…
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-sunedison-creditors-idUSKCN0XO1PU

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    pat

    28 Apr: KCBY: Bankruptcies shake the solar industry
    By Sinclair Broadcast Group
    Energy analysts say it’s too early to know if America’s solar power industry is undergoing a major shakeout. But tremendous change is afoot following the bankruptcies last week of two giant solar companies.
    Given the billions of tax dollars at stake, how stable is the solar industry?
    The financial implosion of powerhouse solar energy companies Sun Edison and Abengoa have, at least on paper, burned a hole through the pockets of taxpayers that’s seven and a half times larger than the Solyndra meltdown in 2011.
    “Look at Solyndra, a half a billion dollars down the tube. Now we have another one,” said David Williams with Taxpayers Protection Alliance.
    “A lot of the political leaders, who philosophically have determined it’s in their best interest to promote Green Energy regardless of cost are not being open and transparent with the American people,” said Rep. Ed Whitfield (R- Kentucky).
    Since the well-documented failure of Solyndra, at least 80 more solar companies have filed for bankruptcy in the past five years. The federal government during that time has given away billions more to seed the industry…ETC
    http://kcby.com/news/nation-world/bankruptcies-shake-the-solar-industry

    jokers…with low-information followers:

    27 Apr: Newcastle Herald: Carrie Fellner: Anti-coal protesters bounced from Newcastle Basketball Stadium
    350.org, which is organising the “Break Free” protest, had advertised the basketball stadium at Broadmeadow as the venue for training that would take place the day before.
    But Newcastle Basketball general manager Neil Goffet confirmed on Thursday that the group was no longer staying at the stadium.
    He said “on advice from the NSW Police Force, we decided not to proceed with the stadium hire booking for this organisation.”
    Newcastle police said they were not involved in the decision…
    Prominent anti-coal activist Steve Phillips, from the Lock the Gate Alliance, said the business was free to make its own decision but it was disappointing if it had been driven by political motivations.
    “That kind of hysterical reaction that we see from the mining industry towards protest, where they basically want everybody locked up and to throw away the key, that does rub off on some businesses in the community,” he said.
    “But businesses are doing themselves a disservice if they try and cut themselves off from this movement. The people coming to this protest will be ordinary people from all walks of life.” …
    350.org campaign director Charlie Wood downplayed the incident, saying it was decided that the Glenrock Conservation Area was a preferable venue to the stadium once the protest’s numbers started to swell.
    “Broadmeadow (the stadium) also subsequently communicated that they were uncomfortable hosting us,” she said.
    Ms Wood would not be drawn on whether protesters would be attempting to blockade coal ships or engaging in other acts of civil disobedience.
    “That will be revealed on the day,” she said. “What I can say is the protest will be entirely peaceful.”…
    The activists will encounter the state government’s tough new anti-protest laws which beef up police powers and increase penalties for activities such as interfering with mining equipment.
    “As evidenced by the hundreds of people who’ve already registered to attend the Newcastle Break Free action, these draconian anti-protest laws won’t silence communities from taking a peaceful stand,” Ms Wood said
    http://www.theherald.com.au/story/3873803/coal-protesters-bounced/

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    Eugene WR Gallun

    I have had a vision of Bill Shorten disembarking an air plane waving Carbon
    Certificates above his head and shouting — Green Peace In Our Time!!!.

    Eugene WR Gallun

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    pat

    pure psyops:

    27 Apr: Scientific American: Evan Lehmann: Many More Republicans Now Believe in Climate Change
    Poll shows a big leap from two years ago
    Forty-seven percent of conservatives now say the climate is changing, a leap of 19 points since the midterm elections of 2014, according to the survey released yesterday by Yale and George Mason universities. The poll did not ask respondents whether climate change is caused by people.
    The jump accounts for the single biggest change among all voting groups, and it could symbolize a softening among conservatives on an issue that has sharply divided the political parties, according to Anthony Leiserowitz, director of the Yale Program on Climate Change Communication.
    A number of things might have affected people’s attitudes, including Pope Francis’ encyclical calling for climate action, a record-warm winter and media coverage around the international agreement to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, according to the report.
    Leiserowitz also attributes the rise in conservative belief to a reduction of attacks against climate science and policy in Congress and on the campaign trail.
    “In this presidential race, climate change hasn’t come up on the Republican side at all,” he said…
    Despite the change, the findings don’t point to a shift in conservative views on the reasons behind warming. There hasn’t been a rise in the number of Republicans who believe that people are causing climate change.
    The poll (LINK) also found broad support for government policies to expand renewable energy and reduce greenhouse gas emissions…
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/many-more-republicans-now-believe-in-climate-change/

    reminder of another poll 7 months ago:

    Sept 2015: Dallas Morning News: Tod Robberson: Candidates take note: GOP voters increasingly believe humans play role in climate change
    The poll results are pretty exhaustive, and they’re hard to challenge on the basis of pollster bias. After all, the poll was commissioned by a self-described conservative, businessman Jay Faison of North Carolina, and was conducted by three prominent Republican pollsters. Faison has pledged to spend $175 million to persuade his party that it should change its approach to climate change.
    The results of this survey are pretty decisive. It’s not as if Republicans are tepid and kinda-sorta leaning toward being maybe-but-not-quite convinced about the need for a change in environmental policy. Respondents were heavily in favor of the need for a political response that embraces an emphasis on clean energy, reduced air pollution and increased attention to the public-health effects of energy policies…
    These results do, however, serve as a warning to presidential candidates like Donald Trump and Ben Carson, who don’t believe in climate-change science…
    Instead of being predictably disgruntled about so much government regulation, even Republicans are getting worried about the same things that the supposed lefties have been warning about for decades.
    http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/2015/09/candidates-take-note-gop-voters-increasingly-believe-humans-play-role-in-climate-change.html/

    heavy-hitter Davenport was amongst the MSM covering the Faison-commissioned poll:

    Many Conservative Republicans Believe Climate Change Is a Real Threat
    New York Times – Sep 28, 2015 – By CORAL DAVENPORT

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    pat

    27 Apr: NYT: Reuters: Valerie Volcovici: Republican Donor Backs Clean Energy Senators With Digital Campaign
    A Republican political donor said on Wednesday he would spend “seven figures” on a targeted digital campaign backing two senators who support clean energy policies, which could help tip the balance in their tight November re-election races.
    Jay Faison, a Charlotte, North Carolina-based executive of an audio-vision equipment company, said he would endorse Republican Senator Rob Portman of Ohio and Senator Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire for re-election.
    Portman is a co-sponsor of a bipartisan energy efficiency bill, while Ayotte is one of the only Republican supporters of President Barack Obama’s plan to cut carbon emissions.
    Both are running in swing states. Faison wants to defend conservatives who have led on clean energy issues…
    “For right or wrong, the Republican Party is branded as non-environmental, which we want to help fix,” Faison said in an interview…
    The PAC (political action committee) complements the work of Faison’s foundation, ClearPath, which he launched last June with $165 million to shift Republicans’ skeptical view of climate change and clean energy…
    Faison said support of clean energy could sway blocks of “persuadable” voters who are growing in influence – millennials and non-whites – in tight races…
    (Editing by Kevin Drawbaugh and Richard Balmforth)
    http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2016/04/27/us/politics/27reuters-usa-election-republican-climatechange.html?_r=0

    19 April: Charlotte Business Journal: Who is on the (very) short list of contributors for Jay Faison’s ClearPath clean energy PAC?
    The report says Faison contributed $1.5 million to the political action committee he has started …
    The only other contributor in the first quarter of the year is New York billionaire Julian Robertson, a retired hedge fund manager…
    Last year, he (Faison) announced the charitable foundation would put $165 million over the next several years into educational programs to raise awareness of the risks of climate change. Separately he said he would put $10 million of his own money up over time to support Republicans who address clean energy issues…
    In the current cycle, he (Robertson) contributed $1.1 million to former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush’s Right to Rise PAC. After Bush withdrew from the Republican presidential nomination race in February, Robertson contributed to Ohio Gov. John Kasich’s New Day for America PAC, to support his effort to get the nomination…
    http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2016/04/19/who-is-on-the-very-short-list-of-contributors-for.html

    10

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    pat

    the Faison-commissioned poll. check the questions!

    PDF: 32 pages: REPUBLICANS, CLEAN ENERGY, CLIMATE CHANGE
    Poll of 1200 registered voters nationwide with an oversample to reach 500 Republicans
    August 24-27, 2015
    https://clearpath.org/docs/clearpath_survey_report.pdf

    what a joke Ryan is:

    27 Apr: Journal-Sentinel: Craig Gilbert: Paul Ryan asks millennials to give GOP a chance
    Washington — Reaching out to a group of voters that has drifted away from his party, House Speaker Paul Ryan asked an audience of college students Wednesday to give Republicans a chance.
    “I am going to assume that the thought has not been occurring to most of you recently,” Ryan said at the outset of a town hall-style meeting at Georgetown University. “The America you want is the America we want — open, diverse, dynamic.”…
    His appearance happened to fall on the same day as a big foreign policy speech in Washington by Donald Trump, the GOP front-runner who is highly unpopular with younger voters, polls show…
    Trump, the probable GOP nominee who won all five states that went to the polls Tuesday, is hugely unpopular with this demographic group. In a national poll of 18 to 29 year-olds released Monday by ***Harvard’s Institute of Politics, Trump trailed Democratic Hillary Clinton by 30 points in a fall matchup, and 74% viewed Trump unfavorably…
    But the political challenge facing Ryan with this audience is reflected in polling in his own state of Wisconsin.
    In a Marquette University Law School survey last month of more than 1,400 registered voters in Wisconsin, Ryan had a positive image among every age group above 30. But among voters under 30 — a Democratic-leaning group — he had a negative image: 25% viewed him favorably…
    http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/paul-ryan-asks-millennials-to-give-gop-a-chance-b99714732z1-377322141.html

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    AndrewWA

    Ah the voters choice – worse and worser.

    10

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    AndyG55

    Currently listening to a guy on 2GB, LIVES and WORKS on the Great Barrier Reef.

    Well worth listen to 2GB links at some time.. first 15 or so minutes.

    Makes ABSOLUTE RUBBISH of reporting of coral bleaching on the GBR !!!

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      Gee Aye

      Good. We will all be happy to see his data. As you know we don’t do subjective here

      412

      • #
        AndyG55

        Listen to someone you works there.. NOT who flies over on a plane and can only see surface coral.

        I DARE you to LISTEN and LEARN if you are capable.

        Just go to 2GB and choose Steve Price and Andrew Bolt Thursday night.

        Have you got the guts to do that ?

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        Lord Jim

        Bleaching is a natural cycle.
        i.e. not portending some kind of catastrophe.

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    • #
      philthegeek

      Listen to someone you works there.. NOT who flies over on a plane and can only see surface coral.

      Hmmmm….some unidentified bloke who claims to “work” on the GBR vs named marine scientists who know how to do actual survey work. So difficult….who to take seriously??

      Just go to 2GB and choose Steve Price and Andrew Bolt Thursday night.

      Ahhh….

      Have you got the guts to do that ?

      No, [snip] and shock jock [snip] are a waste of time and the oxygen they consume unless you are after the entertainment of listening to really [snip] easily angered people making fools of themselves. And thats cruel. :)

      [Avoid what I clipped and you won't end up in moderation. Thanks.] AZ

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        AndyG55

        “easily angered people making fools of themselves”

        Like you just have,

        …. well done :-)

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      • #
        AndyG55

        Poor philthegeek, truth must be ignored.. right.. ;-)

        Go and listen… or is it too hard for you to face reality.

        “named marine scientists”…. who’s income depends on them getting a story and a new grant.

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        • #
          philthegeek

          Poor philthegeek, truth must be ignored.. right..

          Actually Andy, its your rather emphatic, but sad and pathetic example of confirmation bias that i need to learn to ignore.

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            AndyG55

            So, never look at both sides of the story, is that your M.O.!

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            AndyG55

            And do you really think the original fly-over bleaching report wasn’t full of conformational bias?

            You funny, naïve little fellow. :-)

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              philthegeek

              Andy, has anyone ever explained the meaning of the phrase, “just stop digging” to you??

              I mean, its vaguely entertaining watching you tie yourself in knots………. in a perverse kind of way. :)

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              • #
                AndyG55

                You poor naïve little child, with a one-sided mind.

                Refusing to let any counter information in.

                You will remain naïve, and a little child.

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              • #
                AndyG55

                The only person tying themselves in knots is you …

                …as you try to balance your hypocrisy of thinking only one side has “conformational bias” DOH !!!

                Crawl out of the bottom of your hole, if its not too deep.

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        AndyG55

        This was about Da Natali, Larrisa Waters wanting to use the natural bleaching of the reef to make a propaganda point against coal mining.

        A lot of relevant FIRST HAND knowledge of the reef from one of the top game fishing operators.. 30+ years of knowledge…. not grant driven theory.

        Do yourself a favour.. and HAVE A LISTEN !!!! http://www.2gb.com/article/steve-price-full-show-podcast-thursday-april-28

        Starts after AB’s comments re Tony Abbott.

        For those who don’t have the courage to have a listen, I’ll compile a list of points once I get back from work this afternoon.

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        • #

          look forward to it. Someone who has the data to refute long range surveys. and listened to the podcast.. thanks for the laugh!

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          • #
            AndyG55

            Too scared to even listen

            So sad… So YOU.

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            • #

              I did listen to it. When was the scary bit? you do realise that there are lots of locals with that sort of experience who have anecdotes that concur with the science (which you mischaracterised). If you search for people with opinions that match your own you will find them, and well done, you did.

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          • #
            AndyG55

            A 2 or 3 day survey from a carbon spewing aircraft by far-left “scientific” (lol) grant seeking activists ….

            vs..

            30+ years of continual use and intimate knowledge of the reef.

            I know you will side with the grant seek activists.

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        Glen Michel

        Well I for one would not take the word of a Greenie or a scientist;I’m far too observant.

        22

        • #
          AndyG55

          A brief run-down for this incapable of listen to a real person talking.

          Bleaching caused by :
          - failed wet season run-off
          - weak currents associated with El Nino, meaning surface water warms up due to Sun
          - also quite windless, so local water is not being circulated.
          Has happened often before. Coral inhabitants take a holiday.

          How bad is the bleaching?
          -Some bleaching, but only of near surface coral that can be seen by aircraft, and are but a small part of the reef.
          -Temperatures have already dropped back down due to water movement, and bleached areas are revitalising rapidly, as they do after most incidents eg cyclones, damage etc.
          -Coming back stronger and with more variety, like after a bushfire.

          Apparently Di Natali and Waters were trying to get a tour operator to take them to the most bleached part of the reef, with the aim of using it for anti-coal propaganda, and the tour operator told them to find someone else because he was sick and tired of people trash-talking the reef.

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    John Watt

    How long before Dr David Evans analysis can be used to show how ill-informed our political brains trust (Turnbull/Shorten/Di Natale) have allowed themselves to become?Surely at least one of them will then have the to denounce Gore. When this happens Australia might lead the way in discovering the real drivers of climate variation. Then we might have the innovation boom to replace the mining boom.

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    ianl8888

    O/T so if deleted, I understand.

    The thing is, though, that the PNG High Court decision on Manus Island actually requires Waffle to make a decision, which will lose him votes no matter which way he decides.

    I just love these wild cards stuffing his smugness :) :)

    Wunderbar !!

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    clive

    I wonder if these”Greenies”(in name only)realize that reefs in PNG thrive in waters that are 3 degrees warmer than the GBR? What say you Gee Eye?

    00