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NSW State branch of Liberals calls for National Climate Debate

As with the US, Australian conservatives are fed up with the pandering to the pompous climate scare. Our PM might “believe” but many conservatives and libertarians don’t. There is growing unrest.

Here is the NSW state branch calling for real debate — trying to rein in Turnbull:

NSW Liberals call for national debates on climate change science

Fairfax Media understands the motion passed with support of more than 70 per cent of delegates at the state council meeting held on the Central Coast last weekend.

A motion passed at the party’s state council calls on the government to “arrange and hold public debates/discussions” between scientists from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and “independent climate scientists”.

The motion says the events should cover ”the global warming/climate change debate”; ”the claims by the IPCC”; and the statement “is all the science settled”.

The motions - which were debated after Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull had left the room following his speech - reveal the level of climate change scepticism among the Liberal base in NSW.

Sources say Mr Turnbull – known to strongly support action on climate change - was heckled by sections of the party during his speech and a large section of delegates refused to rise when he was given a standing ovation.

A few days ago the former PM Tony Abbott got roaring applause at a Liberal Party event -- more than the current PM Turnbull.  Audio here at 24:10.

Last year the Tasmanian Branch debated whether to call climate change a “furphy and green propaganda”.

 

h/t Jim Simpson, David.
VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 8.9/10 (83 votes cast)
NSW State branch of Liberals calls for National Climate Debate, 8.9 out of 10 based on 83 ratings

212 comments to NSW State branch of Liberals calls for National Climate Debate

  • #
    Just-A-Guy

    Public Support fot NSW Motions

    Anyone and everyone that can, should e-mail MP’s in the government in support of these motions.

    They should also impress upon the government the importance of having these debates take place before the next elections.

    Abe

    501

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Because it is an election year these “divisive” motions will be put in the too hard basket.
      In a non-election year they will be taken out and put in the too hard rubbish bin.

      It is obvious that the Liberals are facing an electoral backlash. Many voters regarded as “rusted on” will vote elsewhere. The jump in support when Turnbull was installed was an illusion, most of those ‘in favour’ were never going to vote Liberal regardless of who was the leader.

      The problem is that Labor are, and would be worse. Shorten seems to combine Rudd’s ‘consistency’ with Gillard’s ‘truthfulness’. I repeat my advice, vote for an Independent or party with no hope of winning and give your preference to whichever party you think will do the least damage. Without those first preference votes the organisational wing will notice a big drop in the money received from the government (you do recall voting for parties to get a handout for each first preference vote, don’t you?) and start to wonder. Also being forced to rely on preferences will give the MHR’s a few sleepless nights and they too will start to wonder about their current leader.

      On a parochial matter, the ever popular Christopher Pyne has been on the front page about how he was worried about losing his seat and plotted to get rid of Abbott. Considering that his majority was steadily declining until Abbott came along I suggest that his sense of gratitude isn’t that strong.

      640

      • #
        William

        Graeme, your voting advice is precisely what I did in the North Sydney by-election along with many others, which resulted in a 13% swing away from the Turnbull government in the primary vote. And that was without a Labor candidate.

        220

      • #
        Peter C

        Excellent advice Graham No3. With an election possibly in July we can refine the voting possibilities as the line up of candidates becomes clearer.

        Strangely I do not remember voting to give a hand out to parties for each first preference vote! I suppose I must have done, or someone else did.

        60

      • #
        Dennis

        There should be no doubt in any voter’s mind that Union influenced Labor and Greens would be far worse in government than a Turnbull led Coalition.

        That considered, a Turnbull led Coalition is not our best chance for budget repair, debt retirement or maximising national prosperity.

        20

        • #
          clive

          You never reward a “Traitor”and so I will never vote for Turdbull or the 54 other “Traitors”There will be plenty of other candidates who will get my vote.Time for these”Career Politicians”who promise you the world,but once voted in ,just sit back and “Ignore”we the Great Unwashed.These “Traitors”took Democracy and threw it in the rubbish bin.I for one are going to make them pay for that,just the same as our friends in the USA.They have had enough of the Republicans,doing nothing about Obama,trashing the Constitution.That is why Trump is winning against the “Establishment”and they hate him for showing them up and even to the point of gifting the Presidency to the Hilderbeast or the Commie Sanders.

          50

      • #
        Dennis

        I agree with Graeme’s voting recommendation.

        31

      • #
        Dennis

        I agree with Graeme’s voting recommendation.

        00

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Faux debate I would think — debate on our terms and reach our desired conclusions.

    Why else would they want to debate? Skeptics have offered, even demanded debate for years and they’e dodged it nearly every time. Their act is shameful from the git-go and I wouldn’t trust them now anymore than I did years ago.

    271

    • #

      Roy,
      The climate alarmists will not engage except in their own terms. A debate means presenting your case, and letting the other side present theirs on the same basis. Their is an equality. A fair debate will endeavor to let the best side win on the arguments.
      In science it is even unfairer. You propose a hypothesis and it stands and falls by the real world evidence. It means that a very clever person can spend years working on an elaborate theory, only for some ignorant upstart to find a fatal flaw. The most extreme example I know was Piero Sraffa. A true genius he spent decades at Cambridge University solving the labour theory of value. It was a logical and theoretical masterpiece. There was a slight flaw. If anything changed the whole edifice fell down – and in the real world of economics the data is always changing.
      It is the same in a court of law. The prosecution can build up a great case with loads of witnesses and forensic evidence. It all falls apart if the accused can produces the single piece of evidence that proves their innocence. Imagine the outcry if a court accepted the climate alarmists arguments.
      (a) The accused must be guilty, as all the experts cannot think of anyone else.
      (b) The accused cannot be not guilty because there are too many uncertainties with the evidence – so he is guilty as charged.
      (c) The accused must be guilty, as the defense counsel is being paid to present the case.
      (d) The accused must be guilty, as somebody says that the accused is a nasty piece of work, mixes with the wrong sort of people and has errant beliefs.

      200

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Kevin,

        Exactly right, although at law there’s never anything certain until the jury delivers its verdict because no matter how we try to make the system objective (evidence and first hand testimony based), how individual jurors see things can still turn out to be subjective. I was once on a jury where that happened so I know it from experience.

        It would be the same with climate change. But it could be much more productive if everyone went into it with the intent to be honest. And that doesn’t happen now.

        Nevertheless we must someday have an honest debate, not this nonsense of trial by the media and public opinion polls that we’ve suffered for so long. And that’s another thing I wish I knew how to accomplish. And presently I don’t trust calls for debate from those who so often have shown themselves to be dishonest.

        70

      • #
        Leigh

        KM, we were so close to that “single” piece of evidence with the stacked committee inquiry into the BOM last year.
        By Hunt excluding the due diligence process he affectively made it a hearing of no consequence.
        If Jo and her many other expert peers ever got to look at the methodology in their “world’s best secret practice” of adjusting the temperature data up.
        The whole farce would collapse not just here but right around the world.
        They know it and it is the reason they’re fighting tooth and nail to keep it secret.
        Their US equivalent also refuse to reveal their methodology into their upward adjustments noting both countrys are member countrys of the world meteorology organization.
        Have a look at what’s happening in the US in the Congressional hearings where they’re fighting to conceal their email exchanges while disappearing the hiatus.
        It is my opinion that concealment of that “single” piece of evidence is what will bring the global warming money fest down.
        We were close last time but no cigar.

        130

        • #
          Raven

          It is my opinion that concealment of that “single” piece of evidence is what will bring the global warming money fest down.

          I’d like to believe that but Michael Mann’s hiding of the decline didn’t do it and neither did Climategate.

          I reckon we seriously underestimate the depth and spread of the intertwining power, influence, matching ideology and money involved after all these years. We’re dealing with a very large internationally integrated self licking ice cream cone and they won’t just fall over.

          And yet, as each day passes, the man on the street displays less and less interest. The nexus is becoming quite comical.

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      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        Kevin, if they refuse to engage then somebody must be engaged to act on their behalf.

        We used to call that a Kangaroo Court. However it is quite passé in modern Oz.

        Even so, the idea is not silly.

        20

      • #
        PeterPetrum

        Yes, and my understanding is that is how French courts work. You are guilty as charged until you can prove your innocence. The problem with the climate alarm theory is that, at the moment, it is only time and the lengthening data bank that is having any effect in disproving the theory, and they are trying like mad to “adjust” the data bank because they realise now that it is overtakeing their theories at an alarming rate. Only when the alternative science is given a fair hearing in the climate court will CO2 be able to have a verdict of “Not Guilty” or, if it was a Scottish court, “not proven”, a kind of legal limbo, but better than guilty.

        The Liberal move may, hopefully, be a first step in this country for CO2 to get a fair hearing.

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    • #
      clive

      Roy,you and I and most here,know the “Warmies”would never let it happen because they would lose.They need to keep”The People in the dark and with the help of the “Lame Stream Meja”have managed to do so.

      10

  • #
    ExWarmist

    There are Liberals in Tasmania?

    Who knew?

    210

  • #
    TdeF

    Apologies, I just posted this minutes ago and it remains topical

    It’s hard to fathom why getting rid of Abbott increased the Liberal’s chance of reelection when Abbott led them to a landslide victory? There is only one Green MP in parliament, so why chase the Green and Gay vote? Abbott’s problem in government was the senate while his own team planned his demise and undermined, much as Gillard undermined Rudd. Malcolm as Minister for communications refused to control his ABC. We now have a cuckoo in the nest exactly as Lord Monckton predicted.

    However the current move in the Senate is puzzling. Without the independents like PUP, Abbott could never have removed the carbon tax and the mining tax but Turnbull now wants to remove the independents in a double dissolution and restore Labor/Green control? Plus Gay Marriage. Why?

    Someone who wanted to pass legislation would simply threaten. Perversely the independents may frustrate a double dissolution by passing Abbott’s Building and Construction industry bill, and keep their senate jobs for another three years. Another Turnbull achievement?

    So it is clear Australia has a very Green PM and why the Liberals still support Turnbull is not understood.
    Clearly only a faction did and it is fear of Abbott’s real and National popularity which is behind Niki Sava’s mysogynist book and her husband works for Turnbull. If Turnbull remains, an ETS is certain. Turnbull always gets what he wants. If Shorten/Albanese/Plibersek succeed, an ETS is also certain.

    Australia’s only hope is Abbott. You cannot imagine Malcolm sitting on the ground in his firefighting outfit and makeup not done. It is all about manicured Malcolm in a suit on a tram, man of the people. Now Malcolm’s friends are getting scared as people see the same ineffectual, waffling, do nothing rich hand puppet they remember.

    The job of the ABC/CSIRO/SBS/Fairfax is to keep running stories about Climate Change. After thirty years of nothing happening, even seven years since Copenhagen, the hirdy girdy is just turning slower. The message is unchanged. Pay up. The UN wants money and control and Rudd/Gillard/Turnbull/Bishop want the world stage like Helen Clarke.

    In this new world, the political machine is all about the politicians, not the country. It is why Trump is winning. People are utterly frustrated. The party machines are run by factions, Liberals and Republicans as much as Labor and Democrats. The biggest problems facing Australia are not gay marriage and a republic and the climate and a new constitution. There is only one man in Australian politics people trust and he thinks climate change science is crap, socialism posing as environmentalism. He is right. Malcolm in the muddle is worried. Only the opposition love him.

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    • #
      TdeF

      Loved the audio of all the Liberal party riotously cheering Abbott and humiliating Malcolm! The country was cheering and the bit where super grumpy Michelle Cheese was cheesed off was priceless. Clearly Malcolm is her Prime Minister, which says a great deal.

      Not if, but when will the Liberal party do the right thing and put Abbott back? After the next election? Right now only five people have to vote the other way and what was done can be undone as easily. It may all hinge on Barnaby Joyce. The Liberals could save face and government if Joyce was unhappy. It is a coalition after all. The Nationals could stand up and save the Liberals from their own factions, the ones Malcolm says do not exist (cue more laughter). The tragedy is that Malcolm has just renovated the lodge.

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      • #
        el gordo

        ‘The tragedy is that Malcolm has just renovated the lodge.’

        ** chuckle **

        Barnaby can’t do too much at this stage except give moral support to the motion and Tony is unlikely to get another chance at the top job unless Talcum loses the election.

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        • #
          TdeF

          Not so sure. Change five votes in ninety. Malcolm’s agreement was with former Nationals leader Warren Truss. Joyne is fiery and I doubt the Nationals like Malcolm at all. Malcolm he promised to change nothing but he is so utterly wasting their time in government. Defence is gutted, a critical Nationals issue. Sure, after Abbott’s comments, Malcolm publicly announced a 2% GDP spending on defence but behind the scenes put the submarines off by 20 years? The governments of Japan and Germany will not be happy. Nor the Nationals. Interestingly the question worrying Malcolm is who leaked, not at all whether this skulduggery is true.

          If the Nationals threaten to end the coalition without a return to Abbott, the party is over and an election may be necessary. In that case would the Liberals stick with Malcolm or use that excuse to put Tony back? The wildly cheering crowd were all the Liberal party faithful at a Howard government function. The only ones clapping politely for Malcolm were Michelle Cheese and friends.

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          • #
          • #
            el gordo

            A quarter of Green voters and a quarter of Labor voters think Malcolm is doing a good job.

            http://www.essentialvision.com.au/approval-of-malcolm-turnbull-6

            Defence is not gutted, its running lean.

            32

            • #
              TdeF

              Sure. That’s why Malcolm is more popular overall, the extra support coming from people who will never vote Liberal!

              However Malcolm is extremely unpopular with many people who voted coalition, but the factions calculate these people will not dare vote Labor or Green. Just watch them! It is this presumption which so annoys people, that their opinions do not matter. That is why both parties are hunting for Green/Gay votes and ignoring their supporters. One Labor MP resigned this week over the issue of gay church marriage being obligatory Labor policy.

              The other puzzle is that while all but 8 Labor seats were won on Green preferences, most coalition seats were won on first preferences. Why then Malcolm is so passionate about gay issues is beyond logic and what is the openly gay head of the NSW Liberals hugging Bill Shorten after his promise to legislate for gay church marriage? Does Malcolm’s (non existent) faction include the NSW gay rights faction? Where did he get a mandate for that, from his friends or the Australian voters? No, we voters are treated with contempt. Abbott was very clear about policies. Devious Malcolm is not to be trusted. How could anyone think he would get away with just deferring the submarine purchase for 20 years? Now he is angry at being caught.

              At 175 days, Malcolm may not beat #24 for 321 days in office, George Reid for East Sydney in July 1905 but he can always go back to merchant banking and handling carbon credits.

              151

              • #
                Leigh

                TdeF, after the next election the balance of the coalition will be altered. Most of those who agitated for Abbotts removal will simply be gone.
                If Turnbul does “win” he’s a lame duck pm controlled by the conservatives in the party.
                If he attempts to again put the party in bed with the labor party, I have no doubt those forces controlled by Joyce and Abbott will combine to once again remove this socialist in liberal clothing.
                Read ETS.

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              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                Agree Leigh.

                Very perspicacious.

                50

              • #
                philthegeek

                The other puzzle is that while all but 8 Labor seats were won on Green preferences, most coalition seats were won on first preferences.

                You must be easily puzzled TdeF??

                Conservative primary vote goes to the Libs, Left primary vote splits between ALP and Greens, but comes back together under a preferential system.

                06

              • #
                TdeF

                No Phil, I will explain.

                The puzzle is that most Liberal MPs never needed Green votes to win but their focus is being reelected, especially by people who did not vote for them like the Greens. That is why I am puzzled. This is a new paradigm where MPs worry much more about keeping their great new jobs than actually doing the job. These are not conviction people. They are opportunists who make Jaqui Lambie seem principled and rational.

                150

              • #
                AndyG55

                The Libs should have worked on KEEPING those voters that put Mr Abbott in as PM.

                Instead they have done the exact opposite, its almost as if they want to get rid of those people who voted them a landslide victory.

                51

          • #
            philthegeek

            This is a new paradigm where MPs worry much more about keeping their great new jobs than actually doing the job. These are not conviction people.

            Its not new. Politicians are always looking to keep their jobs. In particular the mob occupying the treasury benches at the moment. They are just not particularly competent at EITHER keeping their jobs or doing governance like they are paid to do.

            23

        • #
          TedM

          What the PM promised was to make no change to refugee (illegal boat arrivals) and climate change policy before the next election. That election may be only a few months away.

          150

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            Didn’t he tell Greg Hunt?
            He is in the paper today about a carbon free city in Australia within a year. That requires large purchases of carbon credits from overseas – Nigeria?

            170

            • #
              Lord Jim

              He is in the paper today about a carbon free city in Australia within a year.

              A ‘carbon free city’ is a contradiction in terms.
              Humans are carbon based life forms.

              191

              • #
                toorightmate

                The City of Southern Giles in WA is a carbon-free city.
                No people there, and nothing else either, but that’s the way we of the Green movement like it.

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            • #
              PeterS

              I hope my city never becomes a carbon-free one. I like my meat char-grilled.

              70

            • #
              clive

              If he does that,we can have a “Good Laugh”just like we have with South Australia and their “Bird Mincers”Just a small hitch with the “Inter-connector”from Victoria and all hell broke loose.I say to Hunt,stop talking about it and do it.

              10

    • #
      KinkyKeith

      TdeF

      A great comment; lots of interesting insider stuff.

      KK

      71

    • #
      Winston

      TdeF,

      The parallels between Turnbull and Macbeth are startling, a vainglorious man seduced by power to treasonous murder of a good and noble king. The quotes and the players in their respective roles at the link below really tell a tale.

      https://1984redux.wordpress.com/2016/03/08/the-tragedy-of-macbeth/

      Hope you enjoy it.

      151

      • #
        PeterPetrum

        Winston, absolutely BRILLIANT. Being of Scottish heritage, Macbeth is one of my favourite classics. Your linking of the current lot in Canberra to the characters is magical and your quotes most appropriate. I have saved it for distribution to some of my friends, some of whom have NO idea what is going on!

        70

        • #
          Winston

          Thanks, Peter.

          The full play is still in the offing, unfortunately, but I never cease to be amazed at how prescient and perceptive Shakespeare was, and how the course of human affairs recurrently follows along very similar patterns of behaviour that transfer seamlessly from Elizabethan England to antipodean Australia 400 years thereafter.

          Whether it be the echoes of Julius Caesar with that of Julia Gillard’s assassination, or Turnbull and his uncanny similarities to Macbeth, it is the universality of the foibles and frailties of human nature through time that is most intriguing and amusing to me.

          80

          • #
            Another Ian

            Winston

            I’ve found for a long time that a lot of situations are covered by a knowledge of Shakespeare, Winston Churchill and Rudyard Kipling

            50

      • #
        TdeF

        Thanks. I have loved Macbeth since I studied it.

        Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
        Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
        To the last syllable of recorded time,
        And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
        The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
        Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player
        That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
        And then is heard no more.
        It is a tale
        Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
        Signifying nothing.

        Now that’s Malcolm, Prince of Point Piper. Treachery. Murder of a just king by a man who was trusted.
        As for the scheming wife who inspires a second rate man to murder, that part is a worry.

        60

      • #
        KinkyKeith

        Ah, my old high school Shakespeare takes on real meaning.

        I can just picture Julie at her New home in New York, looking out over the parapets of the U.N. Building to the Hudson drifting past.

        KK

        40

        • #
          Winston

          KK,

          I think I’ll save that for the sequel, of sorts: The working title would be “The Merchants of Menace” – the heartwarming story of a slip of a lass from Lobethal, South Australia by the name of Julie Shylock, who travels to the UN in search of those denizens of the underclass who have defaulted on their debts, and excels at finding new and exciting ways to extract various pounds of flesh.

          The alternate title is “No Sh!t, Shylock!”

          61

          • #
            KinkyKeith

            This Shakespeare business is a real money spinner.

            Let me take a look at Lobethal?.

            Lobe, as in, part of the brain.

            And Neanderthal; as in Very Large brain.

            ?

            20

            • #
              Graeme No.3

              Lobethal = Valley of Praise. Name given by the Pastor who led his flock from Germany to escape the authorities telling them how to behave. (I live close).

              The name was changed during the hysteria about things german in the first world war (as were many others), but later switched back.

              I note in passing that Julie B. was deputy leader under Nelson, Turnbull, Abbott, Turnbull but she did defeat Christopher Pyne when he tried to become Deputy Leader. For that she deserves Praise.

              00

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      TedF – its very straight froward :

      (1) We dont actaully have a democracy – we have a globalist dictatorship. Who ever is PM is hand picked becasue they are easily controlled.

      (2) Both siodes of “politics” are in essence the same people, just with different wrappers.

      (3) Voting is rigged, its just that most people are too ignorant to see it. The logical explanation of “why if we vote do we get teh same result regardless” is the question most people ask…..I have proposed the answerr above based on obsereved political activity.

      (4) Who puts up the political candidates? FInd out who these people are, looka t their politcial connections, and follow teh money/power trails and you will find who are the real rulers of this country.

      From a conservative Chrsitian viewpoint, non of this surprises me – we are ona countdown to something horrific, and we need a collapse into a moral morass to make it happen – and we will see the rise of the antichrist eventually, but we need people along the way who will shove australia into the black pit, corrupt morals and dissolve the christian/judeo laws and society standards to allow it to happen.

      I propose exhibit “A” of the last 40 years of collapse of values and consistently poor govt…

      126

      • #
        Leigh

        Steve, your post goes a long way towards explaining Trumps appeal.
        Look closely at who are trying to stop him from both sides.
        Trump us not a politician.
        Trump funds his own campaign.
        He is not beholden to anybody.
        I read something a few months ago from one of America’s most respected tv hosts that the establishment is that fearful of Trump they will kill him before they allow him to become president. I have the link, I’ve just got to find it.

        90

      • #
      • #
        Yonniestone

        Original Steve as I’ve said it before, Australians are getting the rejected Republic model put to them in 6th Nov 1999, we don’t get to directly vote our head of state, this is done amongst parliament, ringing any bells people?

        Oh and a certain Malcolm Turnbull President of the Australian Republican Movement blamed PM Howard for the defeat saying “History will remember him for one thing. He was the prime minister who broke this nation’s heart.”

        From someone who voted NO, get stuffed Turncoat!

        131

      • #
        llew jones

        “..corrupt morals and dissolve the christian/judeo laws and society standards to allow it to happen.”

        There is little doubt that the Judeo/Christian culture to which you refer has powerfully undergirded the life, of Britain (post the Protestant Reformation and the religious revival of the 18C),of the United States and of Australia from their beginnings as Western nations.

        I occasionally look at The Steam(stream.org) which is a news source with a decidedly Christian emphasis.

        Here in the context of Ted Cruz’s candidature and a challenge to Cruz from a Jewish Rabbi is a defence of the Judeo/Christian concepts upon which the USA was built and Cruz’s correct use of such history:

        “Why a Rabbi Is Wrong About Ted Cruz”

        https://stream.org/rabbi-wrong-ted-cruz/

        00

    • #
      ianl8888


      Perversely the independents may frustrate a double dissolution by passing Abbott’s Building and Construction industry bill …

      That assumes the Industry bill will be presented to the Senate

      It won’t – that’s part of the deal Lord Waffle did with the Greenies to get the Senate voting changes through (ie. Libs + Greens will have a majority)

      So whats in it for them ? Well, a post-election Waffle should finish with a Lib/Lab/Green Senate he can push his real agenda through. The Greens will survive this and a grateful CFMEU will continue to fill their coffers. The ALP will suffer, which suits both Waffle and Di Natale

      But there won’t be a DD trigger if the Industry bill is not presented, I hear the cry. There is already one – the bill to push superannuation boards to include independent directors (hated by both the ALP and Greens) has already been downed twice by the Senate, so a DD trigger actually exists now. One sees how keen Lord Waffle is to push this to a DD. This tells us that Waffle does NOT want a DD – he just wants to frighten the independent Senators. New Senate voting rules will be in place for the next Senate half-election. End of little kerfuffle …

      60

    • #
      philthegeek

      TDef…got to call this out for bullshit.

      It’s hard to fathom why getting rid of Abbott increased the Liberal’s chance of reelection when Abbott led them to a landslide victory?

      No its not. He was incapable of being anything other than an opposition leader and his polling was so far south as to be laughable. Abbott didn’t win in 2013, the ALP lost.

      Abbott’s problem in government was the senate

      No. Abbott’s problem was that he took a Senate that everyone expected to be friendly to his agenda, tried to bully them, and put critical Senators so far off side it became silly. He, and the Libs made their problems in the Senate by demanding not negotiating. Idiots. :(

      Clearly only a faction did and it is fear of Abbott’s real and National popularity

      Just WTF evidence do you have for that statement TDef?? A feeling in your waters?? Wishfull thinking??

      Election 2016 is there for the losing people and its happening before your eyes.

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      • #

        Abbott won the election with a blood oath, and would have won in 2010 too were it not for two turncoats.

        Abbott lost against the Media who voted for Turnbull. Panicking Libs put in a man who is popular with people-who-vote-Labor but is disliked by the heart and soul of the conservative or libertarian side of politics. There will be little passion to campaign for him. Many Lib supporters don’t really care if Turnbull loses in a 2016 election. Lib Lab, what’s the difference?

        In the US conviction politicians who take on the media and political correctness are reshaping the landscape. If Abbott is like Cruz, Turnbull is Romney.

        250

        • #
          philthegeek

          Abbott won the election with a blood oath,

          Not so much. Yup, you care about that issue, but Climate isn’t a vote changer except on the fringe of political engagement. Single issues never are.

          It is part of a spectrum of issues though so event though its over-rated its not without effect.

          Abbott lost against the Media who voted for Turnbull.

          No, he lost against Turncoat because his own party finally got it that he had not made the transition from LOTO to PM, had no “achievements” except negative ones they had banged on about for too long (Carbon tax gone so what else are you going to do??) knew he had virtually no policy of any significance to run on in 2016, knew they had completely lost any economic arguments where they even engaged……oh, and needed to get rid of Hockey as well.

          [ If Abbott is like Cruz, Turnbull is Romney. ]

          Lol! Yup, the Republicans need to avoid Cruz in the same way the Libs need to avoid Abbott. Both appeal to a vocal, but non-mainstream (read small) part of their support base. And i make a distinction between support base an party members. So much politics and so little popcorn.

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          • #
            el gordo

            ‘Climate isn’t a vote changer except on the fringe of political engagement. Single issues never are.’

            How about imminent global cooling?

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            el gordo

            ‘…he had virtually no policy of any significance to run on in 2016…’

            That’s not true, he wanted to be the infrastructure PM, satellite cities, bullet trains, food bowls and decentralisation, but now Malcolm will adopt them as his own. Theoretically he can’t lose.

            ‘It is part of a spectrum of issues though so event though its over-rated its not without effect.’

            That’s because half the population has been brainwashed into thinking CO2 causes global warming, which it doesn’t. We want a debate and we want it now.

            Have you given any serious thought to propaganda in schools and through the MSM, how easy its been to bring about mass delusion.

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              AndyG55

              “, how easy its been to bring about mass delusion.”

              One only needs to read the geek’s posts !

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            • #
              philthegeek

              That’s not true, he wanted to be the infrastructure PM

              And managed to do nothing except re-announce stuf the ALP had already funded. They had (and under Turncoat / Morriscum) virtually nothing in the way of viable economic or tax policy. And now, they have ruled out doing anything of any significance on the revenue side of the budget.

              Have you given any serious thought to propaganda in schools and through the MSM, how easy its been to bring about mass delusion.

              Fine if you are just having a whinge or complaining about long term influence, go ahead, but completely irrelevant in terms who wins the next election that is on us soon.

              We want a debate and we want it now.

              To achieve what exactly? A live debate where show-people can pontificate, misquote, and try to dazzle people with thier erudition?

              In 2016 the only game is win or lose the election. Focus on that or be irrelevant.

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                AndyG55

                ” A live debate where show-people can pontificate, misquote, and try to dazzle people with thier erudition? ”

                No, we don’t just want the AGW side of the argument.

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              • #
                el gordo

                Phil the world is in a deflationary spiral and Australia is doing better than all the other OECD countries, credit to the Coalition.

                The only way to climb out of this hole has a Keynesian feel with a difference, the China infrastructure bank will become a major economic driver in the years ahead.

                Last year the Indonesian asked for tenders for a bullet train service to travel 150 kilometers. The Japanese came in with a good bid yet they failed to get up because the Chinese said they would build it for virtually nothing.

                ‘Focus on that or be irrelevant.’

                Living in the bush I’ll be voting for the Nats.

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              • #
                el gordo

                ‘To achieve what exactly?’

                I would enjoy seeing Greg Hunt fall on his sword.

                40

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                Vote early, vote often El Gordo.

                Living in the city I’ll be voting for the Nats too – in the Senate. And I’ll send them a financial contribution to boot.

                Given the Nats won’t run a candidate in Curtin against the backstabber Bishop, I’ll be looking for a good independent to give my taxpayer electoral first preference payment to. Perhaps the Australian Liberty Alliance (ALA)?

                Not a penny to the Liberals. Not one brass razoo.

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          • #
            TedM

            Spot on Philthegeek

            16

          • #
            TdeF

            Rote abuse is not logic and unwelcome. Your implied abuse of Tony Abbott is party mantra, not fact.

            “Carbon tax gone so what else are you going to do?”

            The tragedy of 1200 corpses in the Timor sea is clearly not your problem. As Sarah Hansen Young said, “accidents happen”. Abbott stopped this instantly, against every bit of advice from the Greens and Labor and all their experts. This was 4 jumbo loads of families, more than all the previous civilian deaths in major accidents in the history of the country. For that we are all grateful beyond measure.

            The Mining tax, an impost on miners who already paid the State Resources Taxes and PAYE at a Federal level are the largest group contributing to total Government income, $65Billion a year. Punished above and beyond income taxes on profits for daring to take risks and make a ‘super’ profit. This was Green nonsense. A grab for cash.

            As for the others like the absurd 18C, as PUP exploded, any chance of taxation reform or winding back nonsense like the Human Rights Commission or the Australian Renewable Energy Agency or the many Labor QANGOs became impossible. Into this vacuum stepped the Prince of Point Piper, promising all things to all people and delivering nothing except a renovation of the lodge.

            Abbott made an excellent PM of whom the whole country could be proud. He was comfortable overseas signing significant free Trade Agreements with China and Japan. This stuff about Labor just losing and the Coalition winning by default is rubbish. They won by a landslide, but the Senate is not democratic. One in 200 members of the democratic House of Representatives is a Green communist but 9 of the senate are Greens and there is no way they represent State Interests, the point of the senate.

            How can you defend this? This current mess is not democracy and more than the Rudd/Gillard fiasco. It is control by factions, now both Labor and Liberal. Rudd was a popular leader, killed by his trusted deputy. So with Abbott. Factions are about personal rewards not democracy.

            The example of Trump is going to change this. The party for which you barrack, like so many, has been corrupted by factional trading, toys for the boys. What the people want are politicians who do what they promise and act on principle, not read from their manifesto or treat themselves to private jets or helicopters or UN jobs. Abbott stayed in a barracks, a true ascetic like Gandhi. He eschewed pomp and ceremony and rode his bike up black mountain where his security could not keep up. He was a man of the people. He actually saved lives by risking his own. He was not a failure, except to Malcolm’s ABC. We could be proud of Abbott as a fair dinkum Aussie with degrees from Oxford and who could fight his way out of a corner. To the left, he had to go.

            Now we have Trump showing how the party machine is also corrupt in the US. He shoots from the hip. He says what people want to hear and he does not need the job. Perversely it is hoped Trump does nothing he promises. In that is the gem of an idea. In the modern political world, not one does what they promise. Except Abbott. A conviction politician, a rare gem in a world of self interest, an honest man.

            Climate Change is just one of the issues we want addressed. Free speech is next. Then the ABC monolith, an illegally operated cartel unaccountable to anyone and funded by taxpayer money. It is a monster which dominates political discourse in this country. You cannot believe anything the ABC says and of course they hate Tony Abbott.

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              philthegeek

              Abbott made an excellent PM of whom the whole country could be proud.

              TdeF, its at this point i suggest you lay off the blue kool aid.

              Mr Abbott of the Shuddering Brainlock was manifestly unfit to hold any office whatsoever. Great on a bike yup, useless at Governance which is what the prat was being paid for. He was a viable LOTO when the ALP was in disarray. Absolutely not up to it when the ALP machine appears to have its act together.

              FFS, they have been herding the Coalition around for weeks now and Abbott and his idiot ilk have been helping them out. He’s worse than Rudd was for the ALP.

              However, congrats on covering most of the talking points required of a well programmed drone from the out there wing of the conservatives that are working for the election of a Shorten Govt. :)

              [Pure inflammatory bluster. Do better Phil. Got nothing more than names? You're lucky this got reconsidered.] AZ

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            llew jones

            Philthegeek it has been pointed out before that Abbott won the last election so convincingly that it dominates the house of reps numerically. Also Abbott is credited with removing industry crippling taxes like the carbon and mining taxes, stopped the people smuggler boats and proposed tax policies that scared the daylights out of your average Aussie lover of undeserved welfare payments and bludgers in general. However most commentators see that some of those tax changes are necessary. Perhaps, as you suggest Hockey was a poor salesman but all that by Abbott in just 2 years. Poor old Turncoat seems completely out of his depth when it comes to doing anything useful with respect to producing “an innovative”, “agile” (whatever those words mean to Turnbull) thriving economy.

            The contrast is between action man Abbott and do nothing man Turnbull. Both left and right are coming to see that that is how Abbott and Turnbull are defined.

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            Winston

            Phil,

            If you want a great example of why Abbott was infinitely better than his predecessors, look no further than Qantas, a company which begged for a bail out and debt guarantee by our government because it was allegedly on the verge of collapse.

            This request was refused, and Qantas has not looked back since, having been forced to look to its business model and its practices to find a way to stand on its own two feet- something it most clearly was capable of doing, as history has now shown.

            If Labor were in power, the cronyism gravy train would have been rolled out and gilt edged. Drones to the left would call this great policy initiatives no doubt, and the unions would have thought it was money for jam but hey, isn’t that what the taxpayer is for?

            90

            • #
              Sceptical Sam

              And the QANTAS Board would have been falling over themselves to stuff shareholders cash into the Labor Party’s coffers as a result.

              Tony Abbott did QF a big favour. They’re now competitive.

              Leigh Clifford (Chairman QF) should double his contribution to the Libs from his lousy $15,000 last time around – given how Tony Abbott made them face up to reality.

              50

            • #
              KinkyKeith

              anset was a big lesson for all about the unions.

              10

          • #
            AndyG55

            See all those red thumbs you are getting, geeky.

            There are 3 or 4 gutless leftists who refuse to comment, anything more is Liberals and conservatives here seeing right through your rather pathetic attempts at pretending to be a Liberal or a conservative.

            Give up.. you don’t have it in you. Your rabid leftism is too strongly ingrained.

            20

        • #
          Leigh

          “Many Lib supporters don’t really care if Turnbull loses in a 2016 election. Lib Lab, what’s the difference?”
          Jo, from a bloke that had never voted liberal in his fifty odd voting years till the last election (and probably won’t again) you’ve got that statement dead right!
          Look what happened the Gillard and Abbott election when the “floating” voters didn’t bother with either party.
          Then look what happened when the “floaters” got onboard with Abbott.
          One liberal poll expert refered to those floating voters as not needed last year!
          The liberal party is in government for two simple reasons.
          Abbott and the level of support he received from the likes of me and so many other disillusioned voters.
          Turnbul is really dilusional if he really thinks that election changing pool of voters will give him the support that we afforded Abbott.

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      • #
        clive

        I would beg to differ.The Canning bye election says that Abbott would have got in,with-out any problems,that was why Turdbull had to act quickly to knife him.Never believe polls unless you are the one conducting them”.

        10

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      Dennis

      Tony Abbott led the Coalition to a landslide defeat of Labor in 2013.

      But he also led them to defeating Gillard Labor in 2010 forcing Labor to form a minority alliance government.

      Despite Rudd Labor defeating the Howard Coalition by a significant majority of seats in 2007.

      40

    • #
      clive

      So,stop voting for them.They think that we will vote along party lines,but as we have seen in the Nth Sydney bye election,they lost 13% of the vote,which is a feat in itself when you consider that “Leibor”didn’t field a candidate.

      10

  • #
    Joe Lalonde

    In Canada, our Prime Minister is implementing A carbon tax and trade system that WE never voted for…
    Oh and he has put on extra thick lipstick this week as he visits President Obama who is sooo happy that Canada is following the US policies.

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      TdeF

      Exactly what our PM is going to do with no mandate at all. The last Carbon Tax was brought in immediately after winning government on a clear and unequivocal promise there would be no carbon tax ‘in a government I lead’.

      Donald Trump is hitting on this nerve that once in power, politicians on both sides are simply ignoring the sheeple. Or as our only Federal Green MP said to me directly, “we tell the people what they want to hear and when we get power, we do what we like”. That is now all sides of politics, not just the communist Greens. No wonder Trump is popular. Perversely people hope he does nothing he promises. They understand the game and hate the parties.

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      • #
        TdeF

        For people overseas, it was the previous Labor government which brought in the Carbon tax immediately having run on a promise of no carbon tax. Our present Liberal coalition removed it, with the help of the very senate people the new faux PM is trying to remove. Apparently the politicians want a carbon tax and gay marriage. It is only the people of Australia who want neither.

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          OriginalSteve

          It seems that the govt are terrified of a plebisite on gay marriage, which is why they may push for a double dissolution ( based on any excuse they dream up ) to make sure its doesnt happen, or at very least remove the people who might block it in the senate. Removing the Senate in efefct ( if that were to happen ) removes a counterbalance against increased chance of political corruption.

          “In politics, nothing happens by accident, and if it does happen then you can bet it was planned that way”
          - Franklin D Roosevelt.

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      Joe I recently saw your PM cuddling a couple of Pandas, quietly wishing they were Cougars. :)

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  • #
    pattoh

    A Prime Minister for Goldman Sachs is a PM for Big Brother/NWO !

    ( & the Boys from Threadneedle St were pleased!)

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    • #
      ianl8888

      George Orwell’s 1984 is not a novel – it’s a manual

      And Cassandra notes (from the SMH report):

      an amendment by NSW MLC Catherine Cusack, supported by left faction powerbroker Michael Photios, ensured the motion was sent off to the party’s platform committee for consideration at a later stage

      If that report is accurate, then the issue remains in the dead zone

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      • #
        PeterPetrum

        Ian, the original motion on having a debate got through. It was this one which was delayed and sent for discussion.

        “A second motion called on the Turnbull government to hold an inquiry into Australia’s engagement with the United Nations on climate change and report back to the party by mid-year”.

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      PeterS

      Glad I’m not the only one to recognize that extremely important and relevant fact about Turnbull. It matters naught who wins the next election. We are doomed to join the coming NWO after the next financial climax or two. Also note there’s a serious push in Europe to do away with cash. The question then is how will people pay for products and services? The answer is obvious to anyone who opens their eyes (and has an arm and/or forehead).

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        Dennis

        NWO meaning the fraud based on man-made global warming, climate change, aimed at collapsing capitalism as we know it and replacing it with a Communist China modal controlled and managed capitalism (see Maurice Strong, chief engineer and other such as Al Gore) that would enable the exploitation of workers and others who in democratic nations are protected by laws and regulations against exploitation.

        Operative word: PROFIT

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        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          I’m a bit sceptical of that analysis Dennis.

          Perhaps you could elaborate how it would work.

          Profits come from having a customer base that has cash to spend.

          Exploited workers have no cash.

          No cash means no spending.

          No spending means no profit.

          Can you straighten me out on that?

          10

          • #
            clive

            The new currency is rumoured to be “Bitcoin”Often wondered what happened to that.Never seemed to go anywhere.

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          • #
            PeterS

            Cash is being replaced with credit cards, PayPal and the like. Online shopping is becoming more popular making cash less and less of a means to purchase goods and services. So there is no reason not to believe that cash will one day will be removed from our society. One can present several very valid and good reasons to do so. The problem though is the means and the real reason for forcing people to stop using cash. It will not be good that’s for sure. In fact it will be evil.

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          • #
            • #
              Sceptical Sam

              Thanks Dennis for those references.

              I’ve read them previously.

              If your “operative word” is PROFIT as you say, then the references don’t address it.

              My argument still stands. Exploited workers don’t have the means (cash or credit) to spend. Hence those seeking profits have a smaller customer base from which to make their profit.

              Exploitation and profit are somewhat in tension, are they not?

              10

              • #
                Dennis

                Sam right now in the US Donald Trump is suggesting that a tariff against goods from China be introduced because of the exploitation of workers in China that enables manufacturing businesses to export to the US and undermine goods produced by US workers who have far better conditions. This is along the same lines as the exploitation during the start of the industrial age in now developed countries, what led to the formation of unions and creation of award wages and better working conditions.

                A controlled and managed capitalist system would allow exploitation, like in Communist China today. A worker earns wages, the on costs that are the total operational cost of running a business are what could be removed or cut. China does not have occupational work safety or environmental pollution regulations. Add many other red and green tape items in the US, Australia and other developed countries.

                It is worth considering that as published by the Fin Review last year, rounded off numbers, the total cost of employing skilled labour here is over $600/day compared to $400/day in the US and $200/day in India. India is a growing economy.

                20

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                Dennis,

                I’m afraid the facts don’t support your assertion that China’s workers are exploited. Chinese GDP per capita has risen 4 fold over the 20 years to 2010:

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_GDP_of_China#/media/File:GDP_per_capita_of_China_and_India.svg

                Disposable income in China has risen some 165% over the last decade:

                http://www.tradingeconomics.com/china/disposable-personal-income

                Growth in personal wealth of that magnitude does not come as a result of exploitation – no matter what Mr Trump says.

                China’s economy is still in a very strong growth phase – would the USA like to grow at the reduced Chinese rate of 6.5%?

                The Chinese economy is undergoing a structural shift to increased domestic consumption. That shift cannot happen if the workers are exploited; they need increasing levels of disposable income to grow domestic consumption.

                Finally, your “controlled and managed capitalist system” is not capitalism. Its correct name is totalitarianism; National Socialism; fascism.

                There is a growing middle class in China and a rapid reduction in poverty resulting from the application of capitalist principles. This growth could never have been achieved under the Communist/Socialist system.

                The problem with your analysis (and Trump’s) is that it belies the facts. Industrial employment in the USA has surged in recent years – especially in the rust-belt.

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  • #
    Leonard Lane

    I think this a good sign of the possibility to actually have rational discussions.
    Sure it may fail, but the need for such debates/discussions are now on the table, at least in the minds of many in NSW.

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Leonard Lane:

      It takes 2 to debate. Can you imagine that the AGW ‘scientists’ are going to front up? They know they would get humiliated and worse, lose funding when the general public have their suspicions about ‘climate change’ confirmed.

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  • #
    John Robertson

    What ?
    Policy makers are going to finally examine the evidence of the proposed problem, for which they have been imposing legislation to cure.

    Why?
    Politicians are finally getting caught in the glare coming from the impoverished taxpayers, smarten up or be decarbonized.

    If these pathetic actors,our elected leaders, actually do their job at a grade 12 level, expect massive resignations from the bureaus.
    Given the choice between explaining gross incompetence resulting in massive waste and theft of public treasure or retiring on a bloated pension.

    If any western democracy actually does an honest inquiry into CAGW, how it spread and who profited,it will be game over for the UN for 2 or 3 decades.

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  • #

    There is no need for a debate on the climate science. In five UNIPCC report the consensus of leading Climate Scientists have utterly failed to demonstrate
    (a) that the majority of warming since 1820 has been human caused.
    (b) that this will have nasty consequences.
    (c) that even if there were nasty consequences human beings would not adapt.
    (d) that it is optimal for any country to constrain or reduce GHG emissions over other emissions.
    (e) that if some countries take a lead on ineffectual and poverty-creating policies, others will be daft enough to follow.
    Even worse, would you allow an expert witness into a court of law who openly practiced promoting hearsay and prejudice over real substantive evidence, along with attempting to completely undermine the presentation of the opposite case?

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    FIN

    Interesting the shenanigans going on inside the Coalition at the moment. It’s Rudd-Gillard all over again and, despite the fact I quite like Turnbull, I think it best the LNP go and have a spell on the opposition benches and spend some time working out what they actually stand for because it seems they don’t stand for much right now. Will the [snip, folks] on the lunar right be able to roll him again? Wouldn’t put it past them.

    [Sorry for the slight edit. Otherwise this comment is fine and I'm approving it.] AZ

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    • #

      Couldn’t agree more. The party we looked to for salvation has turned out to be just another bunch of self serving, careless fools. The thought of seeing Malcolm on the opposition bench with a long face is about enough to get me voting Labor. Right now I don’t see how Bananas in Pajamas could do any worse for us.

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      Peter C

      I agree also.

      Note that James Paterson has just been appointed as a Liberal Senator (Victoria) to fill a casual vacancy and he will take the Number 1 spot on the senate ticket at the next election.
      https://soundcloud.com/jameswpaterson/james-paterson-on-mornings-with-jon-faine-07032016

      James is the sort of guy who might have an impact on the party, especially if they are forced into opposition.

      The problem is how much more damage can a Labour/Green government do, even if only one term.

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      Dennis

      Beware: The Labor Greens would be a far worse option, as they proved to be from 2007 to 2013.

      And noting how they created a 2013/14 Budget full of unfunded commitments, under-estimated budget deficit and the need for the incoming Coalition government to borrow to fill Labor’s black holes.

      Then the manipulation of the Senate to handicap the Abbott government budget repair measures, and more.

      Hand over to them again, not this voter.

      And then consider their leader Bill Shorten.

      60

      • #
        clive

        And what,hand it over to the 54″Traitors”who are no better than the ALP and Greens?Not this”Little Black Duck”I intend letting them know of my “Disgust at what they did to Democracy.

        20

    • #
      Yonniestone

      despite the fact I quite like Turnbull

      Wow what a huge F^%$#&g shock! LOL

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  • #

    I would only expect a debate as the inquiry into BOM’s use of computer generated (not real) data which was little more than an afternoon tea party. You only have a debate if you know the outcome as per Yes Minister and there are too many holes in the AGW theory to win such a debate.

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  • #
    Graham Richards

    When Turnbull is re elected he will have a go at reviving the climate change hoax. It will come under cover of some obscure agenda but he will do his best to keep it alive…. he has his instructions.

    There will also be some obscure attempt to increase asylum seeker acceptability .

    As you can see I really trust him. No wonder the Libs won’t be getting my vote until he’s buried.

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      OriginalSteve

      Well, you would expect that from a Socialist….

      40

    • #
      Dennis

      Union Labor Greens – exactly the same agenda

      20

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      AndyG55

      As I’ve said before, the very best outcome for all Australia would be…

      1. ALP under Shorten win house of reps by a small margin.

      2. Turnbull and Bishop forced to resign from politics

      3. Abbott reinstalled as Liberal leader.

      4. Libs, Nats, ALA have control of the senate so none of Labor/Greens moronic socialist economy and environment destroying laws can get through.

      5. A new election to break the deadlock, with Liberals winning, and Mr Abbott as PM.

      6. Shorten and the Pleb also forced out of politics.

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      pattoh

      Hey GR, who do you reckon is doing the “Edward Mandell House” on Chairman Mal?

      Any Nominees?

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      clive

      Me too.Never reward”Traitors”with your vote.Even if “Shorton Brains”gets in the number of Independents and maybe Pauline Hanson(she is going to run a couple of people in the election)this will curtail his activity’s and hopefully ALA will also be in the mix.

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  • #

    I have been following Craig Kelly on Facebook for about a year now. I have to say I am still surprised how outspoken he is. The man is a genuine skeptic and does not miss an opportunity to show it.

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  • #

    Nuclear winter is still the chief danger to climate https://nuclearrisk.wordpress.com/about/

    20

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    pat

    Leigh -

    the Bill Bennett essay email is a hoax.
    http://www.snopes.com/bill-bennett-donald-trump-quote/

    8 Mar: ReutersCarbonPulse: Ben Garside:BRIEFING: The World Bank’s triple-play for the future of carbon pricing
    During its more than 15 years of involvement in carbon finance, the World Bank has shifted focus several times but remains keen on having a prominent role in shaping the carbon instruments of the future by spearheading three major initiatives.
    It has widened its outlook from an initial, more direct role of raising and managing funds from industrialised nations for buying carbon credits generated by activities in the developing world – an approach that has had mixed results.
    The Bank aims to have a leadership role in shaping the next generation of carbon pricing instruments by convening experts and stakeholders around three groups in particular.
    They all meet this week in Zurich with the aims of maintaining momentum built up at the December UN climate summit and beginning work on how carbon pricing is incorporated into the Paris Agreement.
    The four-day session includes the formal launch of an ETS Handbook that intends to guide policymakers in designing carbon markets, gleaning lessons from the programmes already operating across four continents, 35 countries, 12 states/provinces and seven cities, which collectively cover 40% of global GDP.
    Below are profiles of the three World Bank-led initiatives, including interviews with the three senior World Bank officials driving each of them to learn how they see each one progressing…READ ON
    http://carbon-pulse.com/16703/

    8 Mar: ReutersCarbonPulse: Mike Szabo: ICE extends fee holiday for daily EUA future spread trades
    Market operator ICE Futures Europe is extending its fee holiday for trades that involve the bourse’s daily EUA futures, it said on Tuesday.
    The programme, which was introduced to help draw activity to the exchange’s spot contract, was due to expire at the end of March.
    It will now continue until at least the end of 2016, ICE said in a circular…ETC
    http://carbon-pulse.com/16744/

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    pat

    lots of info:

    8 Mar: MichaelSmithNews: Robyn McLeod, former Thiess company director, former AWU official now a director of DeSal plant customer Melbourne Water
    http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2016/03/reader-mr-p-writes-hi-michael-john-thwaites-was-the-water-minister-in-the-in-the-previous-labor-government-responsible.html#comments

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    philthegeek

    Amazing the extent to which the Liberals have gone suicidal in terms of the election this year. :(

    Any change in leader before the next election loses it for them, take that as a given.

    It would show that not only have they been ridiculous slack on policy but they are more concerned with internal party matters than governing.

    No-one with half a brain would put Abbott back in as they need someone who can be PM and govern, not LOTO in exile.

    And having this kind of crap go on?? Politically, its an obvious swipe at Turncoat and will be taken as undermining him in the lead up to an election. The recent ALP disease writ large, and worse, since the Libs are showing a remarkable inability to learn from the mistakes of others.

    There are times to put this sort of motion forward, and there are time to just STFU and wait. Its been obvious since Turncoat was installed that IF he wins in 2016 but suffers losses in seats, he would be vulnerable to a challenge AFTER the election from the RW of the Libs since they then have all they wanted from him, Govt for 3 years, and could discard him. Morrison to replace him.

    For advancement of the skeptic agenda? This kind of motion and the way it ties in with the current Liberal civil war makes it less likely the Libs win in 2016. Most sheeople are NOT going to see this as associated with any climate other than the political one. Disunity is only acceptable early or mid term, not in an election year, particularly for this mob who have accumulated so much baggage.

    For Liberal leaning skeptics, going “out and proud” at the moment may make them feel good but it is really self indulgently stupid from a political perspective to be doing this or cheering this on.

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      el gordo

      ‘it is really self indulgently stupid from a political perspective …’

      It doesn’t matter, our great leader has the situation under control. The communication wings have smothered the story and he will go to an early election confident of staving off embarrassment, the hot money is on a July date.

      This would silence those seeking debate on the most important issue of our time, the veracity of climate science.

      The Libs may lose votes from their normally loyal supporters but Turnbull will make up the difference from the fence sitters.

      Assuming the Coalition wins with a large infrastructure promise, the festering issue of climate change science will not go away. He should just man up and have the debate now.

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        philthegeek

        Assuming the Coalition wins with a large infrastructure promise,

        Which they are going to fund how??

        FFS, they have stupidly ruled out anything of significance on the revenue side of the Budget, and if they go all 2014 spending cuts with nothing else they may as well hand Bill the keys to the lodge now.

        Arghhhhhhhhhhh! I am so annoyed at the level of stupidity being displayed by conservative politicians and supporters at the moment. Its like they crave the feel of the opposition benches on their butts. and the pure impotence of NOT being the Govt where they can whinge rather than take responsibility for anything.

        07

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          AndyG55

          Why is it that the far-left ALWAYS assume the government has to find the funding !

          So ignorant, is the far-left, yes, that’s you geek.

          I’m so laughing at the idiocy of the standard far-left supporter. !!

          71

          • #
            philthegeek

            Ahhhhh, your the sort of “challenged” individual who likes to shovel endless taxpayer coin at private rent seekers for infrastructure then. :)

            A desire for good governance and a balanced attitude towards public finances and the common good is hardly a far left attitude.

            15

            • #
              AndyG55

              The far-left attitude is the one you seem to want, ie the government taxing everyone to the hilt and paying for everything.

              That’s called Socialism.

              Far better to create incentives to get stuff done.

              21

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            No Philthegeek.

            Think of it this way: why would the Coalition bother to balance the budget and pay down the debt (again) only to have the incompetents in Labor come back to power at some far future time and undertake even more of their imbecilic programs and social engineering policies?

            The sensible strategy for any non-Labor government is to increase the debt and continue to run deficits so that Labor has nowhere to go when it gets back in (hopefully at some far future date), unless it is prepared to totally stuff the joint economically. (Which would come as no surprise – think Tirath Khemlani)

            Infrastructure that generates a surplus over its lifespan is a good investment. Borrow and build. Keep the Labor Party in penury. Play the incompetents at their own game.

            30

            • #
              philthegeek

              Infrastructure that generates a surplus over its lifespan is a good investment. Borrow and build.

              Yup, which would be why Abbott tasked Turncoat to destroy the NBN at a time when we could issue debt at 2-3%. Great infrastructure PM he turned out to be huh??

              07

              • #
                AndyG55

                No, Abbott asked him to try and fix the absolute mess that Labor had made of the NBN with its bad planning and over-commitment.

                Note that the mess is still there.. because Turnbull FAILED again.

                61

          • #
            AndyG55

            I’d rather do channel it infrastructure than paying your dole.!

            61

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘Which they are going to fund how??’

          The free trade agreement and China infrastructure bank should get things rolling.

          30

        • #
          philthegeek

          Lol! The blue kool-aid is strong here. Are any of you lot on ALP branch councils by the way?

          Have to say you are mostly doing a good job supporting the election of a Shorten Govt.

          13

          • #
            AndyG55

            Sorry your geekness, but you are the one supporting very obvious left-wing agendas.

            We want the left-wing Turnbull GONE, and the Liberals to return to their proper place on the centre-right. That means Turnbull must go.

            I would rather the ALP/Greens destroy the country, than have it hanging around Liberal necks.

            41

            • #
              philthegeek

              Andy, whats becoming very obvious from the postings here is that people like me (right of centre politically) are of on that continuum to the “left” of many of the regulars on this forum…i suspect by quite a ways.

              I would rather the ALP/Greens destroy the country, than have it hanging around Liberal necks.

              Sad to see you define yourself as a self indulgent twit.

              13

              • #
                AndyG55

                ….right of centre my A88e. you are about as right wing as Karl Marx or Billy Shortun.

                Glad to see you define yourself as an ignorant left wing wannabee.

                You should go join Turnbull’s staff.. you would feel at home.

                20

              • #
                AndyG55

                EVERYONE can see straight through your pretence at being anything but a rabid Greens supporter, trying to pass yourself off as somewhere near centralist.

                But your every word destroys your deceit.

                As a rabid leftist, you cannot hide, you cannot pretend.

                Your posts constantly give you away.

                10

    • #
      Dennis

      Tony Abbott was a far better PM than the left leaning media suggested, noting too that they were background briefed anonymously by Turnbull, Bishop and other rebels.

      Ask why Abbott is still being attacked, he is no longer leader.

      52

  • #
    Joe

    It’s beyond debate and moving into get-even territory. The amount of wealth and capital de-frauded by those hoaxers demands criminal prosecution.

    40

  • #
    • #
      el gordo

      No he did the correct thing, this will be an interesting contest with a radical warmist against a sceptic.

      The outcome is uncertain, but obviously a lot to do with the Chinese coal mine on the Liverpool Plains.

      40

      • #
        ianl8888

        … the Chinese coal mine on the Liverpool Plains…

        If Joyce has any sharps to him, it would also be about the farmland Windsor sold to Whitehaven so Werribee open cut could continue to operate instad of closing. Windsor did this while in the position of Patron of the local No Mines Here group (!)

        Tony HYPOCRITE Windsor – truly vom!tous

        70

      • #
        philthegeek

        The outcome is uncertain,

        True, but Windsor is well in the hunt as he will almost certainly come 2nd on primary and will get heavy preference flows from ALP, Greens. Will be a popcorn seat to watch on the night. Barnaby making a coherent concession speech?? He will probably keep it short, just say “buggarit” and walk off.

        17

        • #
          el gordo

          The green vote is low (last election results) so Windsor cannot rely on their preferences.

          http://www.abc.net.au/news/federal-election-2013/guide/neng/

          40

        • #
          Dennis

          The reason that PM Rudd recruited Windsor and Oakeshott was that their electorates of New England and Lyne could not be won by a Labor candidate, even with Green preferences. Those two former Nationals campaigned as safe to vote for independents and were successful until voters worked them out when they backed Labor in 2010, and in 2013 they were both dumped by the electorates.

          Windsor has had too much exposure and carries too much political baggage to regain New England.,

          30

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      Hang on a bit. It hasn’t even started yet.

      40

    • #
      clive

      You just revealed your true colours phil.Tony Windsor couldn’t win even if he was the only runner.Why do you think he didn’t run at the last election?Because he new he was on the nose with his electorate.They “Despise”what he did,siding with Gillard.He is nothing but a closet “Lefty”

      31

  • #
    pat

    ***note the headline…do all scientists claim CAGW is real, Jared?

    9 Mar: Australian: Jared Owens: Labor slams NSW Liberal Party call for PM to stage climate change debates to test ***scientists’ claims***
    Environment Minister Greg Hunt has previously declared the “science is settled” and downplayed divisions within the federal Coalition…
    Mark Butler, the opposition climate change spokesman, today insisted the “science is settled” and rejected the need to debate the causes of global warming.
    “Anthropogenic global warming is real and the global community has committed to keeping global temperature increases to well below 2 per cent,” he said.
    “If Mr Turnbull now bends to the will of the NSW Liberals and conducts public debates about climate change, he will solidify his party as one of climate change sceptics.
    “Can someone pull the NSW Liberals out of the ice age and into the ever warming present?”.
    Mr Butler, who advocates emissions trading and higher renewable energy target, criticised Mr Turnbull for “appeasing” his party’s conservatives by continuing Tony Abbott’s emissions reduction fund and wind farm commission…
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/labor-slams-nsw-liberal-party-call-for-pm-to-stage-climate-change-debates-to-test-scientists-claims/news-story/8e0be534c3e9642a8fb310d354b1e512

    40

  • #
    pat

    have not heard a word about this vote on ABC radio.
    have found not a mention from ABC in general in google searches.
    just checked ABC news webpage, plus the Breakfast, AM & The World Today programs – not a thing.

    nothing from AAP.
    cannot find anything at Sky.
    nothing from The Guardian or UK Daily Mail, which usually jump on stuff like this.

    the only other piece I have found is by ninemsn and has only a single new bit of info, excerpted below:

    9 Mar: 9News: by ninemsn: Turnbull heckled by own party as NSW Liberals vote for climate debates
    “We encourage robust debate of policy motions at state council,” a NSW Liberal Party spokeswoman said.
    http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/03/09/01/36/malcolm-turnbull-heckled-liberals-vote-climate-change-debate

    the good old MSM!

    70

  • #
    Michael Hammer

    Maybe a lot of Australians will take the approach “a plague on both your houses” and vote for independents. I wonder what the fallout would be from an election where both liberal and labour lose lots of seats and the house ends up with a large number of right of center independents. As such it would probably be unmanageable unless maybe there were enough independents of similar outlook to form a new party. Then some remaining right of center liberals could defect to the new party, possibly even giving it control. Now that would be a real message to both Shorten and Turnbull. Ahh well enough daydreaming!

    70

  • #
    Dennis

    Why I support Turnbull but not the Coalition.

    A.Progressive

    15

  • #
    handjive

    ABC/SBS: NSW Liberals want to debate climate change. So, is the moon an egg?

    For all the latest comedy articles, videos and updates at SBS Comedy.
    . . .
    There is nothing funny about doomsday, unless you want to shove your head between your legs and kiss your @$$ goodbye.

    In which case, the 97% warmunists have been doing it for so long, they have their heads permanently planted there.

    40

  • #
    pat

    some of Jared Owens’ Australian article is excerpted in comment #22.

    handjive – SBS don’t even have a report on the topic – or at least none can be found online. they went straight to what they consider comedy.

    poor Larissa – with ABC ignoring the story, her quotes will go unnoticed!

    9 Mar: Greens.org: Liberals’ support for climate sceptic motion is anti-science and anti-jobs
    “There must be a lot of tin foil hats getting around at Liberal Party meetings,” Senator Larissa Waters, Australian Greens Deputy Leader and climate change spokesperson, said.
    “How can these people believe their own personal conspiracy theories yet ignore the global scientific consensus on global warming?
    “Malcolm Turnbull keeps buckling to the climate dinosaurs in his party by allowing CSIRO climate science to be slashed and by keeping Tony Abbott’s hopeless climate policies.
    “As a result, we’re missing out on the opportunities of the job-rich clean energy sector, while the rest of the world is rushing to take advantage of the global transition.
    “We need courage and vision for action on global warming – not a Prime Minister who plays puppet to the climate dinosaurs of the Coalition,” Senator Waters said.
    http://greens.org.au/news/qld/liberals%E2%80%99-support-climate-sceptic-motion-anti-science-and-anti-jobs

    8 Mar: Reddit Australia: NSW Liberals call for national debates on climate change science, including whether “science is settled” (smh.com.au)
    https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/49hmc7/nsw_liberals_call_for_national_debates_on_climate/

    30

  • #
    pat

    easy to find links if u need them – just google the headlines:

    8 Mar: ABC: World Science Festival hits Brisbane with a big bang
    By QUT student Riana Horner
    From March 9 to 13, the event will transform multiple venues into a scientific extravaganza.
    This will be the first time the annual festival has been held anywhere other than New York City, and with more than 100 events scheduled over five days, the festival invites the whole family to join in the fun.
    Queensland Museum’s director and network chief executive, Suzanne Miller, said the program would deliver an exciting mix of day and evening activities.
    “The festival will showcase the very best science and scientists from around the globe through an incredible array of events where there will truly be something for everyone,” Professor Miller said…

    fun, fun, fun…

    10 March: World Science Festival: Dawn of the Human Age: Are we the authors of our own destruction?
    Indelible scars caused by fossil fuel extraction, for example, or the layer of radiation that lingers in the wake of the first atomic bomb.
    In this program,climatologists, biologists, oceanographers and policy experts gather to explore evidence for the Human Age – and what the implications might be as we imagine the future of our planet.
    Dawn of the Human Age is a Signature World Science Festival event and is proudly presented in conjunction with the Department of Environment and Heritage Protection.
    Meet the Participants
    Sylvia Earle National Geographic Society Explorer-in-Residence Earle is an oceanographer, explorer, author and lecturer who has been called a “Living Legend” by the Library of Congress and “Hero for the Planet” by Time magazine. Formerly chief scientist of NOAA, Earle is the founder of Deep Ocean Exploration and Research, Inc., founder of Mission Blue and SEAlliance, and chair of the Advisory Councils of the Harte Research Institute and the Ocean in Google Earth…
    Will Steffen…
    Michael Shellenberger is an environmental policy analyst, co-founder and Senior Fellow of the Breakthrough Institute, and co-author of “An Ecomodernist Manifesto.” In 2008, he won the Green Book Award and was named Time magazine’s “Hero of the Environment”…
    Shellenberger’s 2007 book “Break Through,” co-authored with Ted Nordhaus, was called “prescient” by Time and “the best thing to happen to environmentalism since Rachel Carson’s “Silent Spring” by Wired.

    12 March: World Science Festival: SALON: 1.5 Degrees of Separation
    And how will developing countries leapfrog the fossil fuel age to join the race to control our warming planet? Join leading scientists and thinkers as they explore the implications and challenges of this new world order.
    1.5 Degrees of separation is proudly presented in conjunction with the Department of Environment and Heritage Protection…
    Meet the speakers:
    Dr Stefan Hajkowicz is a senior principal scientist working in the field of strategic foresight at CSIRO…
    Professor Ove Hoegh-Guldberg is internationally recognised for his work on the impact of climate change on oceans, particularly the Great Barrier Reef…
    Will Steffen is a Councillor on the publicly-funded Climate Council of Australia that delivers independent expert information about climate change, and is an Emeritus Professor at the Australian National University (ANU), Canberra…
    Michael Shellenberger…

    10 Mar: World Science Festival: Can We Save Our Precious Reefs in Time?
    The world’s reefs are in a dramatic state of decline – over 50% of corals have been lost over the last 30 years due to pollution, destructive fishing practices, ocean warming and ocean acidification resulting from rising concentrations of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere…
    Meet the participants
    Ove Hoegh-Guldberg…
    Tanya Ha is an award-winning Australian environmental campaigner, best-selling author and science journalist. She is also a media commentator on science and environmental issues, a behaviour change researcher and was a delegate to the Australia 2020 Summit.
    Tanya is currently an Associate of Science in Public and of the Melbourne Sustainable Society Institute. She was a reporter for ABC Catalyst…

    World Science Festival: Partners/Sponsors
    The World Science Festival Brisbane is presented by the Queensland Museum with generous support from our partners.
    Partners includes ABC Radio National, 612ABC Brisbane, Google)
    Affiliates…
    http://www.worldsciencefestival.com.au/get-involved/sponsors-and-partners/

    30

  • #
    KinkyKeith

    Public debate seems to be sadly missing on the issue at hand CAGW.

    Public debate is in the hands of the media and politicians and the serious spruikers who float around pumping up the cause.

    In the last two weeks I have been made aware of the inroads into our society that the Man Made CO2 – death by global incineration issue has made.

    Last night I was made aware of a local radio program which featured a spruiker whose name I had heard but had not bothered to make myself familiar with.

    Naomi Oreskes.

    She appeared, or rather spoke, on an ABC radio programme run here in Newcastle.

    In looking up the detail , surprise surprise there is another famous face listed as an earlier participant.

    http://www.abc.net.au/classic/program/midday/previous-programs.htm

    To hear Naomi’s lecture go here and hit the play again button.

    http://www.abc.net.au/classic/content/2016/03/08/4417127.htm

    Does anybody, especially those in the US, have any comment about her approach to “Science History”.

    Part of her comment was that “scientists” who supported the tobacco companies are in some way linked to “Climate Change Deniers”.

    What little I listened to did not measure up to what you might expect of a scientist and a reasonable person and smacked of typical warmerism.

    KK

    30

  • #
    gbees

    We don’t need a another debate we need a Royal Commission. Terms of reference to include identifying who promoted the [snip, failed theory] which has resulted in $billions if not $trillions wasted Worldwide. I want names, affiliations, company/University associations, benefits received etc. I want people investigated, prosecuted and if found to have benefited from the [snip, theory], jailed.

    [I snipped the word that put you in moderation. Please don't use it unless it's mentioned in Jo's Post. Thanks. It's tempting to get carried away but what we need is more reasoned comments, not angry labels, and similar.] AZ

    21

    • #
      gbees

      Thanks. But I think your SNIP is a cop out. There are references in previous articles where Jo uses the same word. It’s not an angry label. It’s a true description of the CAGW theory which extracts cash from taxpayers on a worldwide basis. The dictionary definition of the word I used I think describes what’s going on perfectly. Certainly Mark Steyn uses the word when describing Mann’s Hockey Stick. Yes, I agree he’s being sued for such use but he’s fighting on the basis of freedom of speech, 1st amendment etc. You SNIP of the word I used amounts to a censorship unless you think you’d be sued and that’s why you SNIPPED it. In which case the SNIP amounts to cowardice. That’s my rant for the day. It is time for a little anger don’t you think? This ‘theory’ as you state has been going on for a very long time and Australia and other countries are the poorer for it.

      10

      • #
        gbees

        PS: I note the use of the same word at #6.2.1 and #20 on this page and am wondering why those weren’t snipped? As well it appears in Jo’s Skeptic II Handbook 4 times, Climate Industry manual 2 times.

        20

  • #
    The Backslider

    Do climate models include clouds?

    30

  • #
    pat

    all is not well at the Green Climate Fund, whose Board is meeting in Songdo, South Korea, this week:

    7 Mar: Can the Green Climate Fund defeat its teething troubles?
    by Megan Rowling, Thomson Reuters Foundation
    (Additional reporting by Reuters environment correspondent Alister Doyle in Oslo)
    The decision by the GCF’s first executive director, Hela Cheikhrouhou, to leave when her initial term ends in September has added to the uncertainties it faces – and to the long list of administrative and policy tasks the board must wade through this week…
    One key problem facing the GCF is that it needs to push funds out of the door fast so that it can stick to a timetable for going back to donors to ask for more in 2018…
    Yvo de Boer, who was the U.N. climate chief when the fund was first agreed in Copenhagen in 2009, said the board had spent too much time quibbling over how to share out the money between different sets of developing nations rather than designing how the fund would work.
    “The focus has been too much on creating a political instrument than a financial instrument,” he said.
    Others blame a surfeit of bureaucracy, and say an insistence among developing nations on hammering out the fine print has, somewhat ironically, delayed cash coming their way.
    Either way, fierce haggling over how the fund should operate, together with pressure to show results, has led to rather a lot of finger pointing, much of it carried on in private…
    For the time being, the best way to keep up with the action at board meetings in (almost) real-time is via Twitter on the hashtag: #GCFund …
    http://news.trust.org/item/20160307194834-f5hi7/

    the lack of transparency is not helped by the fact the MSM is not carrying the above report, despite being subscribers of Reuters.

    8 Mar: ClimateChangeNews: Ed King: Green Climate Fund considering proposals worth $5 billion
    UN’s flagship clean investment fund plans radical boost in support for developing countries once strategy is agreed by board this week
    Nine proposals in Africa worth $900m and six in Latin America and the Caribbean valued at $1.5bn are among those in an advanced stage of assessment, according to a recent update (LINK)…
    A planned meeting at the GCF HQ in Songdo, South Korea will not consider funding proposals, said board co-chair Ewen McDonald.
    Instead, the governing body will focus on policy issues, a strategic plan and assess calls for staffing levels to be radically boosted through 2016.
    “With these matters hopefully resolved, the board will then have a further three meetings this year at which it will consider funding proposals,” said McDonald…
    “I don’t think the GCF can ever get rid of the highly political context it has been placed in as a result of the Paris Agreement,” said Liane Schalatek, associate director of the Heinrich Boll Foundation and one of two official civil society observers in Songdo…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2016/03/08/green-climate-fund-considering-proposals-worth-5-billion/

    30

  • #
    Andrew McRae

    There’s no point in debate unless it alters subsequent action and costs.
    The Paris treaty becomes open for signatures 6 weeks from tomorrow.
    Do the NSW Liberals think they can start, run, and win a critical examination of the world’s global warming research products in less than 6 weeks? They could try but I doubt they could hire all the required lawyers in less than 6 weeks, let alone win the debate.

    The treaty is open for signature for one year. Using debate to delay signature until the window has closed is another strategy, but it’s a poor one due to climate-fatigue. The public will lose interest if it is not resolved quickly, leaving no political opposition to Chairman Mal inking the deal. The NSW Libs would have to get a quick win, in just a few months, because if they can’t then we will still be on the hook to pay for “adaptation and resilience improvements” in Least Developed Countries.

    Sure, I grant you, the essence of the skeptical case can be explained in less than 5 minutes and that is all anyone should need to be doubtful of climate doomsayers. But in debate the other side is free to inject all sorts of strawmen, red herrings, distortions, and noise into the dialogue, such that even reasonable bystanders may be bewildered. The fixed 5 minutes of reason gets lost in the six weeks of Recursive Fury™. That’s if the other side even agrees to show up and debate.
    For victory in the court of public opinion you have to get that moment in debate where nobody on the other side has a good answer. If the other side doesn’t even show up for Day 1, the skeptics would be making pronouncements to an empty room, seeming not worth responding to, there’s no “A-ha! moment” for the public, they don’t get a visible victory, and so the purpose of having public debate is lost. Much easier for doomsayers to keep climate change communication filtering through the establishment bottleneck rather than permit any backchat to individual scientists. No ordinary debate or partisan inquiry can work, only a Royal Commission can compel the doomsayer side to show up, and it still can’t compel foreign citizens to attend.

    The next “tipping point” of the climate debate after this year is in April 2020 when the 4-year cooling off period of the Paris Treaty ends. Converting believers to skeptics is much more feasible in that time frame, especially as with every passing year the empirical evidence for CAGW gets Weaker Than First Thought. That’s why our best strategy is delay. It’s not because we hate the children of the future, but because climate science needs more accurate data to resolve the unanswered question of climate sensitivity to CO2, and this data is only revealed by the earth one year at a time. There is also the tendency of Clime Syndicate data sets to be fiddled to more incredible levels as their desperation increases, so delay also translates to increased likelihood of fiddling being exposed by government inquiries and insider leaks.

    A good strategy is to use the NSW Liberal debate to delay signature for as long as possible, which would be no later than 21 April 2017 but probably soon after the Oct 2016 election if either Mal or Labor reigns. Then gamble on world temperatures declining over the next 3 years as empiricists prophecised and more plausible mechanisms of climate change being firmed up by theorists. A more decisive debate can be held and perhaps the cooler heads can win the 2019 election. Then in 2020 we can withdraw from the Paris Agreement having incurred a brief period of misappropriation of public money, which is about as good as anyone can hope for at this point.

    41

    • #
      The Backslider

      Could you give me your version of that five minutes, I am intrigued.

      00

    • #
      The Backslider

      Then gamble on world temperatures declining over the next 3 years as empiricists prophecised and more plausible mechanisms of climate change being firmed up by theorists.

      The more I look at things the more inclined I am to believe that the rise and fall in global temperatures, at least in the short term, say the last ten thousand years, is primarily due to changes in cloud cover.

      30

  • #

    O/T but: Murry Salby, ha ha ha. No comment? Not even some entertaining excuses? I could see it might take you a while to dream some up, but I’m sure they’ll be fun.

    [It's time for everyone to stop the derision and name calling. If you cannot discuss the topic like an adult then it's better to stay silent. .] AZ

    [Transparent baiting to advertise his site. Don't bother biting. Nil content as usual. Preschooler argument. -- Jo]

    39

    • #
      handjive

      o/t but, how are you going informing fellow 97% doomsday travellers that climate is not weather?

      November 12, 2009
      “Climate change is making itself felt in terms of day-to-day weather in the United States,” says Gerald Meehl, the lead author and a senior scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR).

      http://www2.ucar.edu/atmosnews/news/1036/record-high-temperatures-far-outpace-record-lows-across-us
      . . .
      William Connolley
      July 14, 2014 at 10:56 pm

      comment #3.4.1.1.1

      “> the difference between weather & climate

      Climate is the statistics of weather. I’m puzzled as to how you could have failed to learn that already.”

      tee hee hee. What no opinion @stoat that Meehl failed climate science 101?

      Allowing the lie to perpetuate?

      A little too ‘inconvenient truth’ for you?
      [Snip]

      [It's time for everyone to stop the derision and name calling] AZ

      51

    • #
      AndyG55

      So.. the WC returns, [snip -- inflammatory and WC is not worth the attention. -- Jo]

      51

    • #
      el gordo

      If there are any lurkers still about, Murry Salby said CO2 is not the main driver of climate change.

      WC thinks CO2 controls temperatures but the hiatus falsifies that nonsense.

      41

    • #

      Well done to The Australian for running the story even in that form. I read the judgement first and thought that JN would have an article before WC… not that a short paragraph constitutes an original contribution as such.

      While reading the judgement I could not stop thinking about that quote about a man who represents himself.

      20

    • #
      AndyG55

      Murray Salby is so more intelligent and knowable that most alarmists could ever hope to be

      His understanding of reality was so obvious.

      He had to be shut down.

      WC’s jealously of someone so far above him in honesty and morality obviously continues to hurt WC so very deeply.

      00

  • #
    F. Ross

    NSW State branch of Liberals calls for National Climate Debate

    Wait a minute! Just a dang minute.

    Haven’t the liberals been telling us for decades that the DEBATE IS OVER?

    21

    • #
      AndyG55

      Wrong liberals, F Ross.

      Down here, the Liberals were Centre/Conservative.

      60

      • #
        F. Ross

        My bad. My very bad.

        10

        • #

          F. Ross, your confusion is totally understandable:

          a/ Liberals in the US stole the word liberal to hide their illiberal, totalitarian ambitions. Here in Oz, it still sort of means “liberal” as in “Free”.
          b/ Many Australian liberals have pretended that the debate was over due to a lack of spine to fight the bullies who namecall.

          20

  • #
    Ted Cooper

    If I remember correctly Al Gore pitched Goldman Sachs about the wondrousness of carbon trading, not to save the environment, but as a profitable instrument.

    I believe Malcolm Turnbull may have been associated with Goldman Sachs at some time.

    Ted

    00

  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    a late comment;
    At least we have some hope of understanding from the Libs.
    Current government is not ideal but we may get there yet! . . . .
    Geoff W Sydney

    11

  • #
    mem

    The public debates will be rigged(or reported on by media) to give an outcome that Turnbull can then use to re-introduce his ETS based on the overwhelming “support” emanating from the public debates. Turnbull lacks patience. When faced with opposition to his goals he can’t help himself. Inevitably he manipulates the system to by-pass opposition and “the stupid public”. Never, never trust him. He is a man on a mission and it has nothing to do with Australia’s best interests.

    20

  • #
    el gordo

    The debate doesn’t need to be formal, all we seek is positive discrimination in the MSM whenever a story comes up on climate change.

    The brainwashed ABC anchor: ‘… and professor oddmelon said its due to global warming, but a new study turns that idea on its head.’

    00

    • #
      el gordo

      On further consideration, leave the commercial MSM to carry on unimpeded but force the ABC and SBS to comply with positive discrimination rules.

      The newsroom Trots would have a dilemma on their hands.

      00

  • #
    ScotsmaninUtah

    with the recent loss of work for those climate scientists who declared that the debate is over.
    This suggestion by the liberals to open a debate on the issue must seem to fly in the face of certain scientists reputations.

    10

  • #
    Anon

    THIS IS HUGE! FORMER AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER JOHN HOWARD SAYS ON TV HE IS A “CLIMATE CHANGE AGNOSTIC.”

    Former Australian Prime Minister for 11 years, John Howard has just been interviewed in a nationwide TV program marking the 20th anniversary of his taking office. Yes, he declared himself a “Climate Change Agnostic” and pointed out that there is growing skepticism in Australia and elsewhere. In particular he remarked on the adverse effects of making electricity more expensive in developing countries, and also on the very significant cost included in the budget.

    This is huge! I have met and spoken with John Howard in my twenties when he lived nearby and sometimes spoke with my parents, and also at a function in the 1980′s. His opinion is widely respected and he still plays a role supporting Liberal Party candidates in election campaigns and occasionally offers advice to the current government. He was responsible for gun control following the Port Arthur massacre and thus made Australia one of the safest countries in the world. Many respect him for that.

    The false “science” aired by climatologists (with little understanding of physics) can be demolished with a small gadget called a vortex tube which you can read about on Wikipedia. Air flowing in a helical motion down this tube develops a temperature gradient along each radius, being much colder in the center and hotter at the outside circumference. The temperature differential is caused at the molecular level by centrifugal force, and exactly the same process happens in the lower layer of the Earth’s atmosphere called the troposphere, due to the effect of gravity. This raises the surface temperature – a fact apparently forgotten or never learned by James Hansen who was the ring-leader in promulgating since the 1980′s what has become the greatest error in the history of science in terms of wasted money and even human lives. Basically, for lack of anything else that he could think of, Hansen thought the elevated surface temperature must be caused by radiation from the colder atmosphere somehow heating the warmer surface – and the conjecture stuck despite there being absolutely no established physics supporting it. So they manipulated standard physics to “explain” it and started teaching such to generations of gullible climatology students who were shielded from the real world of physics, thermodynamics in particular. The whole radiation paradigm is just simply wrong.

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