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It’s “irresponsible” to research health effects of wind-farms says Prof Chapman, USyd

Welcome to the cult of climate control where it’s responsible to spend $10 billion of Taxpayer dollars to change the weather with windfarms and such, but it’s irresponsible to spend $3.3 million to check if that harms anyone.

I hear that in houses kilometers away from a wind tower, the water in a glass can ripple, along with the water in the toilet bowl. Obviously since humans have no water molecules it couldn’t possibly …

Is it news that this research will finally be done? Not according to the ABC where the headline is about how much money is being wasted.

Millions in funding for research into wind farm illness criticized

IMOGEN BRENNAN: Sheep farmer Donald Thomas has lived near Waubra in Victoria for more than 50 years.

Since wind turbines were erected nearby about seven years ago, he says he and his family have had headaches, pressure in their ears and many sleepless nights.

DONALD THOMAS: It’s extremely frustrating. But the thing is, what the point they’re missing is the fact that yes, it is affecting us and it’s extremely unpleasant and so many of my neighbours have actually had to leave. It’s destroyed the community as we knew it.

IMOGEN BRENNAN: The University of Sydney’s Emeritus Professor Simon Chapman regularly reviews research for international papers about wind farms and public health issues.

IMOGEN BRENNAN: Professor Chapman says the new research funding is irresponsible.

Here comes the ad hom:

SIMON CHAPMAN: There are people who are anxious and worried about all manner of extremely low or non-existent risks and agencies like the NHMRC don’t quarantine money for that.  I mean they don’t put money aside for people who believe that UFOs are landing people and are going to infect us. I mean these sorts of issues have their adherence as well, but the NHMRC does of course not quarantine money for that.

It’s that kind of reasoning that gets you a position as a professor at Sydney Uni these days.

SIMON CHAPMAN: There are something like 53 wind farms around Australia, and one of my research papers looked at the history of health and noise complaints about those wind farms. A minority of wind farms have received any complaints at all.

So because no one has spent much irresponsible money looking at this, they haven’t found much, and if some wind farms are OK, then all wind farms are.

Remember human life depends on installing inefficient bird killing fans because we have to keep the climate as constant as it has never been.

Where is the real research?

This field is so under-researched that a tiny study of a few households by Steven Cooper was the first to suggest that some people recorded  symptoms when the wind towers were on in situations where they could not know if the towers were operating. Previous studies had not looked at narrow band infrasound. He found the more power a wind tower produced the higher the external dB(A), and that when studied with this better resolution there was no natural background noise with this type of pattern. For more information see the preliminary findings on wind turbine noise.

As I said then, there are more than 225,000 wind turbines operating around the world. So the real question is why has it taken so long to do an eight week study on six people in three houses looking at the effects of very low frequency ultrasound?

INFO: The NHMRC press release on funding for research into wind farms.

h/t Pat

 

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It's "irresponsible" to research health effects of wind-farms says Prof Chapman, USyd, 9.5 out of 10 based on 79 ratings

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152 comments to It’s “irresponsible” to research health effects of wind-farms says Prof Chapman, USyd

  • #
    Craig

    I don’t suppose Simon made any effort to find out why some neighbours of farmer Donald’s community moved away?

    251

    • #
      Robk

      There are many different designs for wind turbines but they all are subject to the fact that the power of the wind is a cubed function of the wind speed. Most turbines produce maximum power at around 40-60 kph wind speed, say 50kph. When it’s a pleasant breezy day the wind speed is more like 20-25kph, so the turbine is producing a mere 10-12% of it’s rated power. At these speeds there may still be some infra-sound as the blade-tip speed of a three bladed turbine is around 8 times the wind speed, but the drivetrain is not loaded up. In high winds the turbines have to respond to being over driven, either by furling the blades, yawing out of the wind, or shunting down (or a combination). At these times, when loaded up most of these machines growl and hiss and spit. They are unpleasant to be near. It is at these times the good doctor should visit these things he professes to be so knowledgeable of.

      230

      • #
        LevelGaze

        “…the good doctor”
        I should point out that Chapman is not a medical doctor – he has no medical qualifications.
        I was going to make that point to defend my profession and then remembered, to my chagrin, characters like Bob Brown and the current head of the insane Greens, whatsisname.
        Groan… well, its never been a perfect world.

        50

  • #
    Kevin Lohse

    ” I mean they don’t put money aside for people who believe that UFOs are landing people and are going to infect us.” Ever heard of the CETI project?
    The windfarm scam hates research into collateral damage. In UK, the scammers are protected in law from making available data about the wholesale slaughter of bats and birds on windfarms.
    A Happy and Joyous Easter to all of you.

    382

  • #

    This needs to be well and truly documented, so that down the line when the truth emerges, these people can be held responsible for any health issues caused by these devices. In fact, someone should formerly approach these people and get signed affidavits (or whatever), so that they will be held to account and can’t back out in any way in the future.

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  • #
    ROM

    SIMON CHAPMAN: There are something like 53 wind farms around Australia, and one of my research papers looked at the history of health and noise complaints about those wind farms. A minority of wind farms have received any complaints at all.

    From Pierre Gosselins German translated NoTricksZone ; Alternative energy section.
    .

    German Medical Doctors Warn Hazards Of Wind Turbine Infrasound Are Very Real, Worse Than First Thought!
    By P Gosselin on 4. March 2016

    Dr. [ med] Johannes Mayer made a presentation on the serious hazards of infrasound (1 – 20 Hz) from wind turbines saying: “It is unbelievable the flood of international scientific publications that has appeared over the last one and half years.”

    [ Youtube presentation].

    In the presentation Mayer cites “120 scientific papers” confirming the hazardous impacts of infrasound on human health.

    Bogus claims infrasound is safe

    Mayer blasts the lobby-backed claims (based on measurements taken by unsuitable instruments) that infrasound generated by wind turbines is harmless to humans and wildlife and presents a number of studies showing how the very opposite is true.

    The short term effects on infrasound

    – pressure in the ears
    – anxiety feelings
    – dizziness
    – exhaustion
    – tiredness in the morning
    – respiration disturbance

    Also experiments have been done on animals, and results show profound impacts on their physiology and health, ranging from changes in hormone levels and immunological parameters to damage to lung tissue, Mayer shows. At 10:08 he presents:

    The long term impacts of infrasound

    – chronic respiratory disorders
    – chronic stress and sleep disorders from higher stress hormone levels
    – emotional disorder, depression, burnout
    – high blood pressure, heart disease

    And the symptoms of infrasound illness:

    – depression
    – irritability
    – tension
    – headache
    – mental and physical exhaustion
    – concentration and sleep disorders
    – noise sensitization

    All of this is caused the constant low pressure waves acting on the inner ear and fooling the body into thinking it is in motion when in fact it is not. Infrasound interferes with the body’s natural biorhythms. Mayer concludes this results in infrasound from wind turbines being “a problem to be taken very seriously”.

    More;
    &
    German Expert: Wind Turbine Infrasound Travels 25 KM…Warns Of Health Hazards…Advises Minimum 5000 Meter Distance!

    In his presentation Töpperwien says he used to be a proponent of wind energy.
    But after having researched the phenomenon of infrasound, he has changed his mind.
    One problem is that it is very difficult to dampen infrasound and that it travels great distances.
    A typical infrasound wave from a wind turbine can be measured up to 25 kilometers away he says.
    They travel great distances.

    Moreover, air inversions can even reflect infrasound, and hence act to amplify the waves. Infrasound can also be transmitted to homes via the ground.

    The changing pressures ´that infrasound causes in the inner ear lead to the person to believe he is in motion when he actually is not. This can cause the person to experience motion sickness symptoms. Other people may experience feelings of panic or feel discomfort in their organs.

    Negative health impacts already confirmed

    Other problems persons exposed to infrasound may experience include, insomnia, headaches, depression, high blood pressure, dizziness, tinnitus or even heart problems. All these ailments have been confirmed by a number of German government institutes. The German Army and the Robert Koch Institute have confirmed that persons exposed to infrasound over extended time periods can suffer damage to health, Töpperwien tells the audience.

    What does Töpperwien say about wind turbines near homes?

    I wouldn’t like to have any such turbine anywhere within 5 kilometers from where I live. I would like to stay healthy.”

    What is the result? Increasingly German citizens are mounting ferocious resistance to wind turbines.
    Today there are hundreds of opposition groups.

    There are also similar reports now coming out of the USA on the Wind Turbines severely damaging health effects from Infra sound.

    In view of the above German information on the effects of wind turbine Infrasound on human and animal health[ French reports tell of some horses going crazy in the vicinity of wind turbines ] and the research that has produced a 125 papers or more on turbines health damaging effects versus Chapmans one paper I would be interested to know whether Proff Chapman has ever bothered to try and find any other papers and information on the very deleterious to health effects of wind turbine infrasound and how much Proff Chapman is being paid by the Wind industry ?

    522

    • #
      ROM

      The infrasound pulses generated by the wind turbine blades are in fact identical to the deep thump, thump one hears and can most definitely feel when standing close to a large helicopter winding its rotor up before take off.
      But due to the size of the wind turbine blades, the turbine blade generated pulses are created at frequencies well below that which most human’s hearing can actually hear. Due to the power of these infrasound pulses a lot of people can “feel” the regular thump, thump from the rotating turbine blades which if going on for hour after hour and day after day can and does understandably, cause some people severe mental and physical health problems.

      Anybody at all with any knowledge of aerodynamics and some familiarity with propellers and the airflow around propellers, the turbine blades are merely gigantic propellers that operate on exactly the same aerodynamic principles as aircraft propeller and helicopter blades, will know and appreciate the sound levels and the pulsing of the turbine blades, the “infrasound” that is causing so much grief to rural people who are forced to live in the vicinity of wind turbines that have only turned up on their patch without in most cases any consultation or consideration for the health and only a well being of those local residents.

      And just in case you think that the infrasound pulses couldn’t possibly be affecting human health, then we have to ask why a local bat population generally gets wiped out within a year or so of a wind farm going into operation.

      Particularly as it has been well researched and most of the bats are killed WITHOUT ever coming in contact with turbine blades.

      From Scientific American;

      On a Wing and Low Air: The Surprising Way Wind Turbines Kill Bats

      It is the pressure change–not the blades–that wipe out thousands of bats annually at wind farms

      Scientists have known since 2004 that wind farms kill bats, just as they kill birds, even though the flying mammals should be able to avoid them. Many biologists thought that the bats, like their avian counterparts, might be falling victim to the fast-spinning turbine blades. But an examination of 188 hoary and silver-haired bats killed at a wind farm in southwestern Alberta in Canada between July and September in 2007 showed that nearly half showed no external injuries—as would be expected if the giant blades had smashed the flying mammals to the ground.

      Instead, 90 percent of the 75 bats the researchers ultimately dissected had been killed by burst blood vessels in their lungs, according to results presented in Current Biology—suggesting that the air pressure difference created by the spinning windmills had terminated them, not contact with the blades.

      “As turbine height increases, bat deaths increase exponentially,” says ecologist Erin Baerwald of the University of Calgary in Alberta, who led research into the deaths as part of her master’s project. “What we found is a lot of internal hemorrhaging.”

      As the wind moves through a wind turbine’s blades, pressure drops behind them by five to 10 kilopascals (a pascal is a unit of pressure), and any bat unlucky enough to blunder into such an undetectable low pressure zone would find its lungs and blood vessels rapidly expanding and, quickly, bursting under the new conditions.

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      • #
        Yonniestone

        A good ‘real world’ site on numbers of Avian deaths from wind turbines is Save the Eagles International.

        Warning: Graphic images of beautiful creatures sacrificed to green ideology, may cause rise in blood pressure in normal functioning human beings.

        280

      • #
        ROM

        I see there are a couple of real low life red thumbers here who apparently don’t give a damn if somebody else is suffering health and mental problems from one of their pet solutions as in wind turbines, to a hypothesized CO2 problem that has yet to be proven to exist outside of a computer model.

        Of course if it was their families and their kids and their own persons whose health, both physical and mental were being placed at serious risk there would no doubt be hell to pay and loud demands that somebody stop this wind turbine pollution immediately and the wind turbines be closed down as they were such a health risk and such a pollution source.
        [ Taken straight from the greens war on coal ]
        Nothing even approaches the blatant hypocrisy of these people especially the couple of red thumbers here in this post on the near proven [ 125 papers and counting ] health destroying characteristics of wind turbines.

        I usually just laugh at the red thumbers in nearly every situation but this time around I have nothing but outright and total contempt for their utter hypocrisy and their apparent ignorant desire to wish ill health on rural people through having to put up with the red thumbers wind and solar stupidity.
        Those rural people forced to live in the vicinity of the red thumbers wind turbine stupidity who have done nothing whatsoever to deserve such outright contempt for their health and future from the red thumbers.

        If you had any sense of shame and any empathy at all for your fellow humans you would apologise openly right here and now.

        483

        • #
          Yonniestone

          Well said ROM, it’s the hypocrisy that gets to you isn’t it, just take peace in the knowledge that those that condemn evil fossil fuelled power will continue to use it to maintain a first world existence and they know they HAVE to use it regardless of the faux moral superiority act that belongs in a Jane Austin novel.

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        • #
          Kevin Lohse

          Contrariwise, Red thumbers are entitled to their opinions, however worthless. It’s called Free Speech, the support of which separates us from the Warmist religion.I treasure the red thumbs as it signifies that I’ve got through to the Darkness and caused a reaction.

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  • #
    philthegeek

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CeNl1ZaW8AEwvQH.jpg

    Says it all really.

    Although, with the Arthur SeeNoDonors matter coming up again i suspect Turnbulls time is just about over.

    261

  • #
    Yonniestone

    I live 30 kms NW of Waubra, the wind farm (sorry Tony) is an ACCONIA energy Australia project, this once productive farming district has been blighted by these technological abortions along with strong divisions with the people living there, real estate prices dropped rapidly before construction commenced in 2007 and has never recovered since.

    An example of hospitality was 2 years ago when out for a drive around Waubra we stopped to look at a turbine operating close to the road, with the car off listening and talking for a couple of minutes an ACCONIA vehicle pulled up behind us and 2 uniformed ACCONIA employees got out and approached our car, we were asked who we were, what we were doing etc…..well after reminding them of our rights and the lack of any police powers on their account I eventually got out to further state my case at which time they retreated to their vehicle.

    Near the town centre of Waubra there’s an ACCONIA wind farm information display beside the Sunraysia Hwy, besides the nauseating self absorbed crap displayed there are more security cameras than your average night club watching the display, haven’t decided between paranoia or control freak yet.

    472

    • #

      The Bald Hills wind farm in South Gippsland is another example of the blind faithful doing everything wrong in the name of the Green Goddess.

      261

      • #
        Yonniestone

        Yep search any wind farm in Australia and you get a meme of the same tragic stories, next time an inner city green spruikes how great wind farms are ask how far away is the nearest one to their house then tell them to [Snip -fly] stop using rural areas like a experiment in curing self deluded guilt.

        Also correction Waubra is 30kms NW from where I live.

        200

  • #
    TdeF

    You wonder where these PhDs get their qualifications. So I looked.

    Simon Fenton CHAPMAN AO BA(Hons) (UNSW), PhD (USyd). So another BA like Flannery. Not a medical doctor or a scientist. 1970-2: Bachelor of Arts, University of New South Wales (3 years sociology; 3 years psychology; 2 years philosophy; 1 year English).

    Professor in Public Health at the University of Sydney. In his PhD in social medicine he examined the ‘semiotics’ of cigarette advertising (semiotics: the study of signs and symbols and their use or interpretation. A bit like Tom Hanks in the Da Vinci Code)

    The field of social medicine seeks to:

    Understand how social and economic conditions impact health, disease and the practice of medicine and
    foster conditions in which this understanding can lead to a healthier society.
    This type of study began formally in the early 19th century. The Industrial Revolution and the subsequent increase in poverty and disease among workers raised concerns about the effect of social processes on the health of the poor.

    You would think he would be a champion of funding for research into the potential damaging effects of noise from industrial machinery in a rural landscape? However he has written a paper, so that’s the end of it. He’s right, anyone else is wrong. Peer review not needed. Infallibility is clearly part of the process.

    Amazingly the Australian Skeptics Inc conferred on him the award of Australian Skeptic of the Year in 2013. This award was for ‘his recent research investigating the claims of so-called ‘wind-turbine syndrome’ and his activities to educate the public about the psychogenic aspects of this syndrome’.

    However as said, he does not seem to be the slightest bit skeptical about his own conclusions.

    451

    • #

      Simon Fenton CHAPMAN AO BA(Hons) (UNSW), PhD (USyd). 1970-2: Bachelor of Arts, University of New South Wales (3 years sociology; 3 years psychology; 2 years philosophy; 1 year English).

      That certainly appears to qualify all climate alarmists. Social science rather than physical science; afterall, climate alarmism is all in the mind.

      362

    • #
      AndyG55

      “This award was for ‘his recent research investigating the claims of so-called ‘wind-turbine syndrome’ ”

      You can totally understand his reticence and dislike at having some proper scientific studies done which would totally undermine his AO award.

      Flannery the 2nd !!

      242

      • #

        An investigation will uncover any malfeasance by any of these social engineers, perhaps that is what Simon Chapman is afraid of. His Paper rejected?

        121

    • #
      Geoff Sherrington

      TdeF
      For some years I was active with the Australian Sceptics until global warming became a topic that they felt needed coverage.
      There was prior US work that was in part pro-Establishment and their Australian office went further and opted to ridicule those criticising the dogma. After a couple of dissenting letters I departed that group.
      Overall, the magazine Australian Skeptic is usually a good read. It has active opposition to anti vaccination for example. But even then they allow anti arguments and consider right to express opinion.
      Wtih global warming OTOH, they are less generous with dissenting voices.
      So a group that takes the pi55 from others on many topics is uncomfortably the other way round with this topic, maybe because of early Carl Sagan work, I surmise. Sagan was a leading US general sceptic who drank the Koolade on global warming.
      Life is full of compromise.
      Geoff.

      72

      • #

        The pseudo-skeptics are easier to understand if we view them as people who fervently want to believe they “think for themselves” while they conform to the establishment position on everything. They market themselves as individual brains while on every single topic they herd together to defend the dominant paradigm. I suspect some are the 120 IQ’ers who want to believe they are 140′ers because they can mimic the “university” view. Others though may score well on an IQ test but have such a need for acceptance they use their brains to come up with convoluted reasons to justify why they are logical while they recite argument from authority as if it were the first commandment.

        151

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          I am note sure there are that many 140′s at Universities. For a start that is supposed to correspond to the top 1% of the population, and they are swamped by the 30-40% going to Universities as the Government downgrades the requirements and tries to get as many there, to delay a rise in unemployment and (Labor & Greens) get them indoctrinated.
          When I was at University – many moons ago – I had some dealings with the Statistical Officer who pointed out that most Professors then were under 110 on the IQ scale, and I have not seen convincing evidence that that figure is much higher these days.

          As for a high IQ score I have only met 2 people in my life whom I would guarantee not to know what day of the week it was. One was illiterate after 10 years State education and worked on a packing line at CSR, until he slashed his hand for the third time by deliberately ignoring the safety instructions (and not wearing the safety gear) so was relegated to floor sweeping. The other when I lost sight of him was doing a PhD in Mathematical Physics. I bet the tests showed 60 points difference but in practice?

          40

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Jo

          I often wonder where societies’ backbone has gone……..

          20

      • #
        LevelGaze

        Hi Geoff

        You’re not alone.
        I left Australian Skeptics for exactly the same reason.

        30

  • #
    AndyG55

    What is IRRESPONSIBLE is the huge numbers of these soul destroying monstrosities that have been put up near human habitation without even the slightest idea of the possibility of real damage to the human body and other living organisms.

    What is truly IRRESPONSIBLE is the avian devastation that these crucifixes get away with.

    What is even more IRRESPONSIBLE, if that is even possible, is that absolute lack of study done on the effect of infrasound on aquatic species, particularly , whales, dolphins etc etc

    You see , the issue is that the people making money out of the subsidies, and the so-called environmentalists that support them……….

    JUST DON’T CARE !!!!!!!

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    • #
      TdeF

      No, your average environmentalist is an urban inner city commuter and has no problem putting giant machines on hills in the otherwise pristine country, destroying the one advantage of living far from the city. The NIMBYs. Not in my backyard. The same with shutting manufacturing, mining, agriculture and clean power from coal. Send it all to China.

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        All is socialism and control – bring every to the same level of misery , and no one can evade the occupation by green stupidity. Mind you , and this is an important point, this green nonsense wouldn’t get up unless the powers that be back it – this is all sanctioned by the Lunatics called the Elite…..

        10

  • #
    David Maddison

    Sped up recording and spectrogram of infrasound from wind turbine. http://youtu.be/Fd64sxabuMM

    120

  • #
    Yonniestone

    About 3 years ago I did 1 weeks work on a piggery that had part of the Mount Mercer wind farm built around it, a turbine was ~50m from our work site and about 100m from the pig sheds, we found the constant whump whump of the blades annoying even with ear plugs in and I wondered how the pigs coped, the owner and employees were evasive when asking about any negative effects.

    I almost forgot I’d found this study done on exactly what I was wondering back then, The annals of animal science, The Effect of Varying Distances from the Wind Turbine on Meat Quality of Growing-Finishing Pigs.

    Abstract,

    This study was conducted to assess the effect of rearing pigs at three different distances from a wind turbine (50, 500 and 1000 m) on the physicochemical properties and fatty acid composition of loin and neck muscles. The experiment was carried out on 30 growing-finishing pigs, derived from Polish Landrace × Polish Large White sows mated to a Duroc × Pietrain boar. The results obtained during the noise measurement showed that the highest level of noise in the audible and infrasound range was recorded 50 m from the wind turbine. Rearing pigs in close proximity to the wind turbine (50 m) resulted in decreased muscle pH, total heme pigments and heme iron as well as reduced content of C18:3n-3 fatty acid in the loin muscle. Loins of pigs reared 50 m from the wind turbine were characterized by significantly lower iron content (6.7 ppm g-1) compared to the loins of pigs reared 500 and 1000 m from the wind turbine (10.0-10.5 ppm g-1). The concentration of α-linolenic acid (C18:3n-3) in loin and neck muscles decreased as the distance from the wind turbine increased. Avoiding noise-induced stress is important not only for maintaining meat quality but also for improving animal welfare.

    230

    • #
      KinkyKeith

      Tommie, ear plugs won’t help with VLF.

      Hits the biggest organ on the body, your skin and also the lungs.

      KK

      100

      • #
        KinkyKeith

        Sorry, machine generated error.

        Yonnie.

        Pulsing enters body via skin and lungs.

        Heart control in brain is overridden by pulses.

        100

        • #
          Yonniestone

          Very true KK, the ear plugs are there to stop long term damage to the ear drum, we use them because of the constant grinding hammering etc in the work area, I do recall a large granulator drum at a processing plant that couldn’t be run at a certain low speed due to VLF making people in the vicinity suffer nausea.

          80

  • #
    David Maddison

    He is a “professor” and thinks legitimate scientific inquiry is irresponsible?

    270

    • #
      Retired Now

      And I’m sure he thinks that the legitimate scientific enquiry into smoking was irresponsible also? /sarc

      40

  • #
    David Maddison

    Sorry, I can’t wait for “weekend unthreaded” so here is som insane African dancing. 79 seconds.

    http://youtu.be/mFYdOWtsT4o

    90

  • #
    Lynn Clark

    I have a friend who owns and runs a small cattle ranch in northeastern Colorado, out in the proverbial middle of nowhere. His nearest neighbor is about five miles away. In the summer of 2010, wind turbines were installed in a swath many miles long and a mile or so wide, with about a half-dozen of them within a half-mile or so of his house. I think it was in May, 2012 when I went out to the ranch to film part of the spring roundup. During the roundup, dozens of friends and family show up to help out. As there isn’t enough room for all of them to sleep in the house, many (most?) people sleep in their cars, trucks, travel trailers (caravans for you Brits), or in the living quarters built into their horse trailers. I was sleeping in the bed of my pickup truck, which has a camper-cover over the bed. Over the years I’ve gotten used to sleeping with ear plugs due to neighbors’ reluctance to keep their dogs from barking at all hours of the day and night. Unfortunately, I’d forgotten to bring my ear plugs with me to the ranch. Under normal circumstances, that shouldn’t have been a problem since there weren’t any barking dogs anywhere around. But someone was running an electric generator, and I couldn’t go to sleep because of it. So, in an attempt to find some peace and quiet, I drove my pickup truck about a half-mile out into the middle of the nearest pasture. Surely, I thought, I would’t hear the generator out there, but I was wrong. It was as if I hadn’t moved the truck at all. So I laid there in the dark in the back of my truck trying to go to sleep with the sound of an electric generator keeping me awake. At one point in the night, I had to answer the call of nature, and the moment I stepped out of the back of the truck, the generator noise stopped. It resumed when I re-entered it. Stepping back out of the truck again, the noise stopped. Within a half-mile radius of my truck, there were five or six wind turbines, slowly turning. I have no idea if they were the cause of the generator noise I was hearing. It certainly wasn’t anything in my (then) 20-year-old truck. When the key is off, everything is off, unlike most recently-manufactured cars. I’ve often wondered if the generator noise was the result of some weird interaction of the whump-whump sound from all of those nearby wind turbines and the sheet-metal body of the truck. I’ll probably never know. I offer this true story as anecdotal evidence that there may be adverse affects on human comfort and health from wind turbines, which were the only things that were making any kind of noise on that otherwise beautiful, cloudless night.

    Postscript: I eventually fell asleep around 5 AM that morning out of sheer exhaustion, which made the next day interesting because I had to be up at 7 AM for breakfast.

    210

    • #
      philthegeek

      Interesting experience, thankyou for sharing. Weird sh$t can happen with interactions between sounds, air and structures sometimes if you hit the right relative sizes.

      150

  • #
    mmxx

    Having an academic (even Emeritus) calling as irresponsible the funding of a scientific study into an issue that significant numbers of the Australians living near wind towers identify as a health threat is rare indeed.

    Local community claims of health impacts from wind farms appear to be associated with several different factors, for example noise (audible and inaudible), aesthetics, altered tourism, local and regional economic decline.

    Prof. Chapman should publish a response detailing the rationale for his bizarre criticism of this research funding. After all, he has let an ABC report leave him dangling in the wind (hopefully not too close to the nearest wind tower) with his apparently unsubstantiated statement.

    170

  • #
    el gordo

    Simon Chapman has been retired from Sydney University for a decade, became a emeritus professor on his departure. Presumably he gets work here and there.

    Simon is a member of a band called The Bleeding Hearts and he has lost considerable weight since his exit from those hallowed halls.

    120

  • #
    Wayne Job

    We need a modern Don Quixote to do some serious tilting. It is plain that the powers that be do not care for our welfare if it interferes with their green socialist dreams.

    110

  • #
    Peter Miller

    Make him live with his family next to a bird chomping farm and then sit back and watch the wriggling as he tries every trick in the book to avoid going.

    Mind you, that’s not a bad sentence for all ‘climate scientists’ for their crimes against humanity. Make them live amongst the bird and bat carcasses and the machines they so adore.

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  • #
    philthegeek

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-22/wa-liberal-preselections-for-federal-election-announced/7267762

    Does anyone know if the “geologist David Archibald” going for pre-slection as a Liberal in Durack is the bloke sometimes refereed to on this site?

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    Peter C

    Stephan Chapman

    In 2013 he was made an Officer in the Order of Australia (AO) for his contributions to public health, and awarded Australian Skeptic of the Year by the Australian Skeptics.

    Skepticism is not what it once was!

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    el gordo

    O/T

    ‘In the Northern hemisphere there was an electrical charge imbalanced based phenomenon that caused the blocking highs that caused the temporary warm blob in the Northern Pacific ocean. The electrical charge imbalanced base mechanism explains why there is an eleven year delay in the reduction in the solar cycle and the onset of cooling of the Northern hemisphere in the paleo record.’

    William Astley (comments at Watts)

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    I’ve mentioned this here at Joanne’s site before, but this time I’ll try and explain it a little better.

    This problem with Infrasound and other health problems related to wind turbines are scoffed at as being psychosomatic, (look it up) and I can relate them back directly to something that was all the rage thirty years back, and even more from when it was first brought up, the problem with health issues related to living under, near, or not even really all that near to high tension power lines.

    They referred to it as elctro magnetic radiation, and right away, you notice the one single word that made this pile of cra@p the problem it was made out to be, that one single word ….. radiation.

    As someone who was electrically trained, this whole thing I knew to be a furphy beaten up out of all proportion by those with a drum to beat and ever willing ambulance chasers, sorry, well intentioned lawyers all too willing to make a buck out of it.

    This was always the biggest steaming pile of bovine waste ever to see the light of day, and it all relied on that one word ….. radiation, and as soon as that one word was mentioned here, people went ballistic.

    Okay then so what is it?

    As electrical current travels down a wire, any wire, no matter how thin or how thick, it generates a magnetic field around that wire, a circular magnetic field around the wire which, umm radiates out from the wire, getting progressively weaker with distance away from the wire.

    The higher the current flow through the wire, then the greater the magnetic field.

    Now, as high tension wires carry huge amounts of current flow, then there is a very large circular magnetic field around that wire, and sometimes even that magnetic field actually might extend to the ground under the wires.

    All sorts of jiggery pokery and tricks were used to accentuate what this magnetic field might do, and people with no knowledge at all cashed in on it, and so called experts crawled out from under rocks to say it was horrendously dangerous, caused all forms of cancer, killed people, and on and on it went, with lawyers making an absolute killing as they found experts who would say whatever they paid them to say.

    From this, more evil was generated as gullible idiots got sucked in by lawyers who saw a buck in it.

    For heaven’s sake, it was a magnetic field. People are associated with magnetic fields by, umm, just being alive, and every day, in bed, at home, out and about, in every aspect of daily life, you are subject to magnetic fields. Every human body has its own magnetic field.

    This all hinged on that one word, and people freaked out as soon as they heard that word. What else does a magnetic field do. It bl00dy well radiates out from the point where the field is generated, hence ….. radiation.

    Not that other radiation word.

    This was beaten out of all proportion, and people were awarded tens of thousands of dollars and more, with the lawyers all taking their cut thank you very much.

    And now we have this infrasound problem associated with wind turbines, and all of a sudden ….. this ….. infrasound is suddenly psychosomatic and is a made up non problem.

    Infrasound actually is a problem, and if they can say that elctro magnetic radiation is a problem, then so is infrasound.

    There’s something inherently disgusting how Science will come out and say a non problem is indeed very bad, and a real problem is nothing at all.

    Now, having said what I have said here, you just watch as someone tries to shred what I’ve said here and say that electro magnetic radiation is actually a real problem.

    If a weak magnetic field can cause a problem, then I sure hope those sufferers from it don’t have electrical power in their homes, because EVERY wire which carries electrical current has its own magnetic field surrounding it.

    A magnetic field. Can you actually believe it?

    Booga booga booga!

    Tony.

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      Get Real

      I used to enjoy pointing out to the ‘electromagnetic radiation hysterics’ that this radiation was all around them on the form of visible light, and infra red and ultra violet. We even have organs that rely on electromagnetic radiation for their proper functioning. Meanwhile they all enjoyed a regular Sunday picnic on a local mountain top between two 100,000 watt television transmitters with no obvious detrimental effects.

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      michael hammer

      Sorry Tony, have to disagree with your apparent sentiments on this issue. I agree fully that the danger of high tension power lines was unjustified but just because one concern was not justified does not mean all concerns are unwarranted. One needs to look at the evidence. Elsewhere in these comments, the point as made that most bats are killed by the pressure change behind the turbine blades. (cited as around 1.5 psi or 10 kpa). 1.5 psi is a HUGE pressure change. Compare that with the pressure change associated with dangerously loud sounds. Assuming the claims regarding bats is is true, it shows a clear impact large enough to be lethal at close quarters. Pressure pulses clearly travel through the air since we can hear things at a distance and low frequencies (which is what these pressure pulses are) attenuate far slower than high frequencies. That begs the question as to how fast the deleterious impacts attenuate with distance. How far away does one have to be before the effect is no longer lethal, no longer serious, no longer deleterious, no longer irritating? To not ask these questions or worse to try and prevent these questions being investigated is beyond irresponsible.

      If bats (or birds) flying near high tension power lines routinely dropped dead out of the sky and the cause could be shown to be the fields generated by those power lines then a similar situation would apply. Of course bats and birds fly close to and even perch on said power lines with no ill effects at all so this is evidence the other way. If there is no effect at very close proximity there is little reason to assume serious effects at much greater distances.

      It is worth noting the ultimate societal response when suspicions of danger were suppressed only to be found to be true later on.

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        michael hammer

        further to my previous post, I did a quick check on the internet with the following findings. Claim: sound pressure decreases linearly with distance NOT as a square root law. Some relative sound pressures found (reference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_pressure ) (The reference cites many other values as well.)

        jet engine at 1 meter 632 pa
        threshold of pain at ear 63-200 pa
        rifle shot at 1 meter 7000 pa
        typical tv set volume 0.02 pa
        EPA identified max continuous sound level to protect against hearing loss and disruptive effects 0.063 pa
        pressure behind blades where bats are being killed 10,000 pa

        Based on this data to not exceed the EPA levels one would need to be 10000/0.063 times as far away = 160,000 times as far away! Now that very simple ratio based on linear fall off is not credible since if we assume the killing zone is say 1 meter from the blades it implies one would need to be 160 km away. There is the issue of near field versus far field pressures and at very low frequencies the allowable pressures are probably significantly higher. However, it hardly represents proof that there is no issue worth investigating. Hmm, my personal opinion, yes there is something there worth investigating.

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        Analitik

        You didn’t read Tony’s post properly Michael – he was saying that while radiation from HT cables was not an issue, it deserved to be studied so infrasound from wind turbines is equally deserving of study.

        On HT radiation, one of my uni lecturers had a poster on his wall showing the magnetic field strength from a 500kV HT line from distance of 200m (from the line, not the base underneath), compared with various other sources. It showed that at that distance magnetic field were stronger from lying on an electric blanket, the earth’s magnetic field and some other common situations.

        I’ve always thought that the ionized particle theory (from the alternating EM field) was more plausible but that has never stood up in statistical studies either. But then neither has particulate matter from diesel exhaust (except in a CARB study done by an employee with a fake PhD) and yet diesels around the world are now afflicted with DPFs and a professor was fired from the University of Califoria for showing the study was faked (sound familiar?).

        http://www.wsj.com/articles/californias-diesel-rule-scam-1445212223
        http://reason.com/blog/2012/06/14/ucla-professor-sues-for-firing-over-dies

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          Analitik I used to live about 200m from two HT power lines one 500Kv the other 375Kv. On selling the house the purchaser insisted on checking out the “electromagnetic radiation” from the power lines. The scan revealed the magnetic field from the meter box was much stronger than that from the power lines and the sale went through.

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            Analitik and Terence M The magnetic field strength around the cable is related to current but HV lines have a low current and instead a high Voltage. It is the electro static field you should measure.

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        michael hammer,

        again I think I have let myself down by not correctly explaining myself here.

        Infrasound associated with wind turbines ….. IS ….. a problem. Electromagnetic radiation was never a problem.

        I was railing against the hypocrisy that made the non problem of electromagnetic radiation into a big problem, and yet now we have a real problem with infrasound, then all of a sudden, because it’s associated with something perceived as being good, (wind power) then infrasound is scoffed at as not being a problem at all.

        It seems to me that everything associated with wind power is to be actively made to look good, at all costs.

        We are told that wind power can replace coal fired power. It cannot.

        We are told that wind power is reliable. It is not.

        We are told that wind power is cheap. It isn’t.

        We are told that wind power has no health problems. It does.

        We are told that wind power is not a problem for birds and bats. It is.

        Truth in advertising is a red hot issue, and is actively pursued when there are even the slightest of perceived errors. However, those rules seem to be suspended when it comes to anything to do with wind power. Every wind power site is chock full of misleading information, and yet, everyone looks the other way, and as soon as anyone even attempts to point out those misleading things, they are actively shredded for doing just that. Don’t dare say anything against wind power.

        If wind power was a car, it would be a Trabant, only in this case, it’s made out to be a Rolls Royce!

        Infrasound IS a problem.

        Tony.

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      Rod Staurt

      A similar nonsense is the fooferra kicked up over cell phone towers. That notion seems to have died a quick death probably because cell phones are so ubiquitous.
      On another note, however, it stands to reason that theses giant useless fans when offshore interfere with the echo location of marine animals.
      I forget where it was that I read that there is a some evidence to suggest that offshore windfarms have an unusual number of whale strandings in close proximity.

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      Greebo

      I wonder if the people who railed against HT so-called radiation also supported Dick Wicks? Magnets in your bloody socks, fhs.

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      Rod Staurt

      Tony
      You might find this interesting, in that there must be a reason that for all this nonsense.

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      R2Dtoo

      Tony: you have hit on a point that doesn’t get enough attention. The green blob is repeat with lawyers. The sue-and-settle tactic used by government is one form of abuse. Some large green organizations have literally hundreds of lawyers looking for “issues”. Some have (or retain) lawyers in every state or province in a country. I have long felt that shyster lawyers are at the heart of most environmental issues, and the expert witnesses they have lined up for cases are eager accomplices. The valid “uncertainty” often espoused by skeptics plays beautifully into their hands, and they take full advantage through the precautionary principle.

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    KinkyKeith

    The presence of VLF “pulsing” is a known problem for humans, but like all inconvenient truths it has been suppressed.

    Mashed birds.

    Fried birds

    Damaged people.

    So much for a caring society.

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    ROM

    If a small boy said what Proff Chapman said he would be told to stop lying.

    Wind Turbine generated infrasound and its health problems for residents within a couple of kilometres of a turbine installation was actually researched in the USA back in the late 1980′s and the result obtained back then and later in the USA and Canada were identical to what the local turbine affected residents are saying here in Australia right now;

    The following is a compendium of wind turbine infrasound research over some years on both the generation of infrasound and its dispersion, its interactions and reinforcement in building structures and in particular the health problems created by turbine generated infrasound

    Stelling, K. Infrasound, Low Frequency Noise and Industrial Wind Turbines

    With the proliferation of recent research and the rediscovery of earlier, until now largely ignored studies, infrasound and low frequency noise (LFN) can no longer be dismissed as irrelevant. This report shows why it must be given full consideration as a contributing cause of the distress of some of those people living near wind turbine installations. It also demonstrates why the Ontario and Canadian governments must pay attention to this research, fulfill their obligation to protect the health of our citizens and amend their wind turbine regulations and policies.

    &
    From the same source;

    III. Three preliminary studies replicating Kelley’s findings

    1. The Falmouth Study, December 2011
    This investigation is also known as the “Bruce McPherson Infrasound & Low Frequency Noise Study” in honour of the philanthropist who created the private grant “to determine why there were so many strong complaints about the loss of well– being and hardships experienced by people living near large industrial wind turbines operating in Falmouth, Massachusetts”.

    The chief investigators, Stephen Ambrose and Robert Rand, set out to confirm or deny the presence of infrasonic and low frequency noise emissions (ILFN) from the “WIND 1”, a municipally-owned Vestas V82 industrial wind turbine.

    However to the surprise of the acousticians, almost immediately upon entering the study area, they themselves succumbed to the same adverse health symptoms that had been described by the people living near large industrial wind turbine sites in the area.

    “The onset of adverse health effects was swift, within twenty minutes, and persisted for some time after leaving the study area. The dBA and dBC levels and modulations did not correlate to the health effects experienced. However, the strength and modulation of the un-weighted and dBG-weighted levels increased indoors consistent with worsened health effects experienced indoors. The dBG weighted level appeared to be controlled by in-flow turbulence and exceeded physiological thresholds for response to low-frequency and infrasonic acoustic energy as theorized by Salt”.31

    30 Rick James. Quoted in Times News, Glencoe, Pa, Nov. 17, 2014.

    It took the investigators about a week to recover from the adverse health effects experienced during the study, with lingering recurring nausea and vertigo for almost seven weeks for one of them.

    The graph below presents the daily time-history variations in IWT output, observations and physiological symptoms experienced. There is a strong correlation between IWT power output and physiological symptoms.

    The graph mentioned above is very illustrative as to the effects suffered and when by these researchers and the correlation with the operations of the wind turbines they were researching.
    A graph which would be very illustrative if Jo was to include it in this post.

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    Gee Aye

    I bet Simon regrets the off the cuff comment on the abc (the system 52 global conspiracy cabal must have been at the pub)…

    is why has it taken so long to do an eight week study on six people in three houses looking at the effects of very low frequency ultrasound?

    So no peer reviewed studies into this at all?

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    F. Ross

    A nit for Professor Chapman

    SIMON CHAPMAN:
    There are people who are anxious and worried about all manner of extremely low or non-existent risks and agencies like the NHMRC don’t quarantine money for that. I mean they don’t put money aside for people who believe that UFOs are landing people and are going to infect us. I mean these sorts of issues have their adherence adherents as well, but the NHMRC does of course not quarantine money for that.

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    Roy Hogue

    Years ago when multi engine airplanes were first attempted they discovered a very serious problem. If the engines were not synchronized both in speed and propeller position, the low beat frequencies that resulted drove aircrews right up the wall. This caused a lot of research into ways to maintain synchronization automatically since it was very tough to do it by manipulating the throttles. The result is that today a flight in a twin or four engine propeller driven airplane is completely free of the problem. I have some pictures of WWII vintage B-17s in flight that show all 4 propellers in the same rotational position.

    Someone put in a lot of research and development to solve this problem because without a workable solution you could not operate multi engine airplanes for any practical purpose. I spent about an hour’s flight once aboard a turboprop commuter plane in which the synchronization was not perfect — it apparently doesn’t take much to cause trouble. By the time I could get off that airplane I was so frantic I was ready to scream. There was no place in the cabin where I could move to get away from the irritation.

    You would think the human race could learn from it’s past problems but apparently things are too compartmentalized and the general knowledge of how disturbing low frequency sounds at even moderate volume levels can be isn’t taught to engineering students.

    This stuff is a serious problem and anyone who doesn’t think it worth the research or who thinks it doesn’t exist should be made to spend a few hours subjected to it.

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      Gary in Erko

      low beat frequencies

      I’ve also wondered about this for groups of wind turbines. It’s not usually mentioned.

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        Roy Hogue

        There are no wind turbines near where I live. But I’ve driven through several large “wind farms” and for the most part I’ve noticed that the blades were synchronized in angular position across all of them that were operating. So I have to suspect that the cause is not quite the same. The synchronization would be a requirement to keep their AC output in phase (TonyFromOz or someone with real expertise?).

        Those blade tips are moving pretty fast and, like any propeller or the rotor blades of a helicopter, would create a shockwave that could be reflected from the ground and combine with the shockwave from other units to create what we’re talking about.

        Maybe someone with more expertise can comment about this because I’m out on a limb guessing what’s going on.

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          Gary in Erko

          As the peaks and troughs of pressure waves from one turbine meets those of another, they wouldn’t coincide. I don’t know if ultra low beat frequencies are a factor. It’s just that I’ve never seen any mention of whether they occur or not.

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      TdeF

      A very interesting point, that the impact of a field of wind turbines is different to that of a single turbine, that the beat generated is a consequence of interaction between them, covering a much wider spectrum of frequencies and potentially both louder and more annoying than a single machine. Then you can get the effect of wind between such machines. Ultimately some frequencies are more upsetting than others and this ability to create new harmonics will really test whether unceasing ultra low throbbing beats across a range of frequencies can create real long term health problems.

      As for whether a man with a PhD in manipulative advertising has a clue about the effect of low frequency acoustics, but maybe his time as a lead singer with a rock cover band would help in understanding the impact of annoying repetitive beats?

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    Svend Ferdinandsen

    The precautionary principle, thats else is used against any invented danger, can of couse not be used for installations that save the Earth. The end sacres the means.

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      TdeF

      The precautionary principle as espoused for treating people with symptoms of potential diseases is rejected by medical associations. There are very good reasons for this. In the extreme case of oncology, the treatment may be comparable in danger levels to the disease, poisoning people to within an inch of their lives, so you want to be certain. Then how do you know if someone is cured and when to stop if you cannot determine there is a problem in the first place? This makes nonsense of Sir Paul Nurses question about the right treatment. The question is whether the patient is even sick and whether the cure is worse than the complaint?

      So with Global Warming. Trillions are being spent to prevent something which is not happening and may not happen and may not be a problem and where there is obviously no connection between CO2 levels and temperature. As for why there is no connection, all you know is that you do not know but it was only an hypothesis in the first place and most likely is simply not true. Now the massively expensive precautionary treatment may be far worse than the disease, which is not there.

      The true precautionary and ethical stance is to confirm the diagnosis, to wait and see how things progress and not to start expensive and massively damaging risky treatment. However as with the tobacco companies and drug companies, the money is irresistible and governments love taxes and power. Surely Chapman is on the wrong side of this, even by his own history? Surely the people trying to blind the public and push an agenda are big wind, big solar and the UN and not those individuals who try to stand up and say there is something wrong?

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        Roy Hogue

        I think the correct “precautionary principle” is very simple.

        First, do no harm.

        It’s really at the heart of Jo’s whole argument against climate change mitigation as well as in medicine and probably other fields.

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    Tony

    A little background info that might be of interest. Simon Chapman is an obsessive anti-smoking campaigner. His career started back in the 1970s as an activist with a civil disobedience group calling themselves ‘BUGA UP’. Basically spraying graffiti on billboard adverts.

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    I mean these sorts of issues have their adherence as well,

    $1.2b per annum for your ABC and they don’t know the word ‘adherents’?

    You’re being rooked, Aussies.

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    handjive

    Wind farm commissioner insists he’s good value for taxpayers at $200,000 a year
    ~ ~ ~
    $200k a year to address a problem that is a failed response to a non- problem?

    Only the logic of 97% Doomsday Global Warming could deliver an environment where that ‘thinking’ is unquestioned.

    How many kids with cancer could that $200k help, let alone the superannuation and associated cost.

    It would be a crime in a sane world.

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      David Maddison

      I don’t believe it is a full time job and so would like to know how few hours he works to “earn” that.

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      Peter C

      Maybe we can ask him a list of questions. including costs and benefits of wind plants, life span of the plants etc. It is his job to know the answers and to communicate them.

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    diogenes 23

    How many centuries have the Dutch had windmills which make even more noise? sorry a waste on this one~

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      RB

      A bit shorter than the Dutch didn’t have an EPA, were desperate for flour and had a government that wouldn’t have given a s…

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      Robk

      Traditional dutch windmills are high torque, low tip-speed machines. They only operated when there was work to be done, not continuously. Mostly these machines were out in the open fields, not only for noise abatement but to catch the wind. The scale of the traditional machine is tiny compared to the monsters of today. Sorry, your argument doesn’t wash.

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        Greebo

        The scale of the traditional machine is tiny compared to the monsters of today.

        Not only that; traditional Dutch windmills actually achieved something. The cross shape of the sails was for practical rather than religious purposes. Exactly the opposite of those we see today buggering up the view.

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  • #
    Another Ian

    Jo

    This seems to fit the thread

    “Hey! Don’t Overreact to That Issue, Overreact to My Issue”

    http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2016/03/hey-dont-overreact-to-that-issue-overreact-to-my-issue.html

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    pat

    lol. Australian Skeptics has prominently on their homepage a piece featuring Chapman (read it) written presumably “by Tim”, as that is the only attribution to be found:

    23 Mar: Australian Skeptics: by Tim: NHMRC $3.3 million on wind farm research – “money down the drain”?
    ***The 2014/15 study by NHMRC was ordered by the Abbott government in January 2013, even before the results of a separate review of the issue by the council had been made public. The decision for another review stoked fears that the government was being swayed by anti-wind farm campaigners, including Maurice Newman, a senior business advisor to Abbott…
    A SINGLE COMMENT: by David: Good article … keep up the good work
    http://www.skeptics.com.au/2016/03/23/nhmrc-3-3-million-on-wind-farm-research-money-down-the-drain/

    however, i am more skeptical of the ***para excerpted above, given the following is by Hannam over a year ago!

    12 Feb 2015: SMH: Peter Hannam: Wind farm health review finds no ill effects – so let’s study some more
    ***The study was ordered by the Abbott government in January 2013 even before the results of a separate review of the issue by the council had been made public. The decision for another review stoked fears that the government was being swayed by anti-wind farm campaigners, including Maurice Newman, a senior advisor to Prime Minister Tony Abbott…
    http://www.smh.com.au/environment/wind-farm-health-review-finds-no-ill-effects–so-lets-study-some-more-20150210-13bcf7.html

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    pat

    Tim/s Aussie Skeptics’ piece links to the usual Hannam outrage. surely “LITTLE HEALTH RISK” & “VERY LITTLE EVIDENCE” of “DIRECT EFFECTS” would warrant a few million for further study!

    23 Mar: SMH: Peter Hannam: ‘Quite disgraceful’: NHMRC doles out $3.3m to study windfarm effects on health
    The research call was criticised last year, with even NSW and Victorian health officials calling for the NHMRC “to make it clear that the total available evidence (parallel and direct) suggest[s] LTTLE HEALTH RISK,” according to emails from these health officials seen by Fairfax Media…
    Simon Chapman, an emeritus professor of public health at the University of Sydney, said there had been at least 25 reviews internationally – including by the NHMRC – that showed “VERY LITTLE EVIDENCE” of “DIRECT EFFECTS” from wind farms…
    Senator Kim Carr, shadow science minister, said the funding came at a time when the Turnbull government was taking the axe to hundreds of scientists – including climate researchers – at the CSIRO…
    “The Abbott-Turnbull Government is hell-bent on politicising Australian research,” he said…
    http://www.smh.com.au/environment/quite-disgraceful-nhmrc-doles-out-33m-to-study-windfarm-effects-on-health-20160321-gnnzhe.html

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    Analitik

    Completely OT but in the light of the past few months I’m surprised there hasn’t been any retrospective media comments on this

    Malcolm Turnbull slaps down Tony Abbott on Europe’s refugee problem
    Tony Abbott did Australia proud in UK speech on refugees, Cory Bernardi says

    Where’s the apology, Malcolm? Bill Shorten? Richard Di Natale?

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    pat

    ***”numerous”/”detailed” studies are being conducted/will be done, but maybe Apex are not the right people to be doing them!

    25 Mar: WXXI News: Randy Gorbman: Bird Conservation Group Objects To Proposed Wind Farm Project Near Lake Ontario
    The Lighthouse Wind Project would put up to 70 or so wind turbines in parts of Orleans and Niagara Counties, near the lake shore, and that has brought concerns from an organization called the American Bird Conservancy.
    The group rates that project as one of the 10 worst sited wind farms in the U.S., because it says it has the potential of severely impacting raptors and songbirds.
    The president of the Audubon Society of the Genesee Valley, June Summers, notes that some birds that migrate long distances are already in peril, and she says these turbines would create the potential of serious injuries or death to those birds since there is a migration corridor near the lake…
    ***Apex Clean Energy, the company proposing the project, says that they are conducting numerous environmental studies to ensure the project is as safe as possible for all types of wildlife including birds…
    Apex’s Director of Wildlife & Environmental Permitting, Dave Phillips, says the company agrees that the south shore of Lake Ontario is an important migration area, and that’s why detailed studies will be done to “ensure low levels of impacts to wildlife.”…
    http://wxxinews.org/post/bird-conservation-group-objects-proposed-wind-farm-project-near-lake-ontario

    can’t copy the following…read all, including the one comment, which talks of Apex being kicked out of other States, etc:

    22 Mar: Daiy News Online: Mallory Diefenbach: Lighthouse Wind (Apex) responds to Somerset accusations
    http://www.thedailynewsonline.com/bdn01/lighthouse-wind-responds-to-somerset-accusations-20160322

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    diogenes 23

    no real evidence is being presented here to falsify the example of windmills. sound pressure is the inverse proportional distance as said in the article even though quoted to say the opposite. It is amazing how these wind turbines seem to be the only devices that noise is a concern. no motorways or bridges etc. mirrored buildings too were an obstacle to birds yet i bet no one here rallied against them at the time. They learned what they are and that problem will be solved. Seems like they try to kill bats all the time anyways. peak oil folks Rockerfeller family is pulling out and i doubt they will put in nuclear either

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      Robk

      The structures you site as an example are all fixed and have static functions. Some have had issues with harmonics and structural defects, and noise in the case of highways. These issues have been thoroughly investigated as problems became apparent and appropriate standards apply when designing the like. The issue with wind turbines is they seek to extract power from the environment by intersecting the greatest possible area for the least cost. To achieve efficiencies the diameter is maximized along with the tip speed. The aerofoil cross section of the blades means they work by creating lift, as in an aircraft wing. This lift is by design a pressure difference created in a rotating fashion. In particular, there is a vortex issued from the end of each tip, much like what you may have seen comming from the tip of aircraft wings, especially when landing. In the case of wind turbines there are three vortices spiralling around each other, along with the triple fluted pressure wave, downwind from a turbine. These are a direct consequence of extracting power. The bigger the pressure difference/lift the more power is extracted. This is nothing like a building or bridge, sorry.

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      Kevin Lohse

      Buildings, mirrored or otherwise, tend not to move through the air at speeds of over 200mph. Birds and bats don’t have time to learn what wind turbines are. The cranes and storks of Germany are using wind turbines as nesting sites. I would imagine to the consternation of windfarm rent collectors as they are protected species so the turbine will of necessity be down for the nesting period.

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      R2Dtoo

      Nice try d23! I visited friends in Pheonix last winter. They live in a gated community with high walls all around, and multi-lane traffic arteries around all four sides. The values of identical houses range from $300,00 depending on the distance from the road noise. Folks have trouble selling houses near the walls.

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        R2Dtoo

        Message above was truncated- guess I can’t use less than and more than signs. Should read range from less than $200k to more than $300k.

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    diogenes 23

    there is no reason that they cound not be easily adjusted to avoid certain speeds, but interesting that there was no imagination for that

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    • #
      Robk

      The complaint is about infra sound, meaning less than 20 Hz. The issue is it can’t be heard but the pulsating pressure wave is giving rise to compliants of nausea etc. The bigger the rotors are, the slower the revolutions per minute. There are many sources of low frequency sound in any turbine, the blades have to turn at a speed proportional to the wind for a particular design. The issue is not so much the frequency but the pressure pulse which is intrinsic to the extraction of power.

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      • #
        diogenes 23

        regardless of the frequency, it can be avoided. or just put them out to sea.

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        • #
          Robk

          They do put them out to sea. The wind resource is better but the cost is hideous.

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        • #
          AndyG55

          “or just put them out to sea”

          That is a truly THOUGHTLESS and despicable comment.!

          I take it that you have NO CARE WHATSOEVER for large aquatic mammals and other sea creatures that use sound for navigation and hunting?

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          • #
            AndyG55

            And do you have any inkling how far infrasound travels in water?

            Blue whales use it for communication.

            Do you REALLY want to introduce a steady sub 20Hz into the aquatic environment. !!!!

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    JeffT

    What hasn’t been mentioned here is the seismological effects of wind turbines. Infrasound travels through soil, rock and water quite well, and could explain the unexpected distances wind turbine noise can travel.
    The CTBTO listening network, originally implemented for detection of unauthourised underground nuclear weapon testing is apparently subject to wind turbine noise, as is evident by the UK’s MoD banning wind farms within a distance, as shown in this paper -
    http://www.xiengineering.com/eskdalemuir

    Of interest is the Wikipedia article – Infrasound, which includes a photo of CTBTO listening station inGreenland.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound

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  • #
    Lazlo

    Chapman is a pompous activist for a number of ’causes’. He is not highly regarded in the clinical community.

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    • #
      el gordo

      Yes, arrogance and ignorance is a nasty mix. Getting Nanny Roxon to agree on plain packaging has produced this pompous air and its clearly visible here.

      “I do not need to talk personally to any of these people or visit their homes in order to corroborate the information that I can obtain from a variety of sources which tells me clearly that these beliefs are irrational, and in fact either nonsense or faith-based beliefs.”

      SMH

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    MudCrab

    I find it depressingly ironic that the same people who try and shut down any studies into wind farm health effects are often the same people who use the ‘tobacco industry’ slur against anyone who questions ‘The Science’.

    [Fixed your typo.] AZ

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    • #
      CriddleDog

      ‘tobacco industry’ slur?

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      I’d be interested to see photos of this “slur” and run an expert eye over this claim.

      [It was an innocent typo and is fixed. Let's not go any farther with the "slur".] AZ

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  • #
    Ivor Surveyor

    I wonder if it is also irresponsible to research Wind Turbine Accidents. Including examples of human mortality and morbidity.
    If so the authors of the site below must be the greatest ‘villains of all time.’

    http://www.caithness windfarms.co.uk

    The Caithness people have been collecting data since the 1970’s and update regularly. They also issue the following caveats:

    1. Data is hard to obtain and theirs is but “The tip of the iceberg.”
    2. There is a general upward trend as number of turbines escalates.

    Total Accidents recorded: 1826
    Fatal Accidents: 118
    Human Injury 136
    Human Health 65

    Common causes: Blade failure 337; Fire 262; Structural Failure 169, Ice throw 36 and so on..
    Detailed tables are available on the site.

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    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Thanks for that Ivor, but the link failed for me. I tried replacing the space with a “.”, but that didn’t work either with “server not found”. Any suggestions? (Could be trouble with a server at my end…)
      Cheers,
      Dave B

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      • #

        Dave B,

        Ivor has just highlighted the first part of the link and also added a space in there as well.

        The correct link is as follows:

        Summary of Wind Turbine Accident data to 31 December 2015

        Tony.

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      • #
        Ivor Surveyor

        http://www.caithnesswindfarms.co.uk/

        It would be nice, but virtually impossible to provide a denominator.
        Such as accidents per number of installed turbines.
        Or fatalities GWe/year generated by wind.
        For Reference: Worldwide Fatal Accident rate 1969-2000* as GWe/y
        Coal 0.876
        Oil 0.436
        Hydro 4.265
        Nuclear 0.006 etc.
        *Switkowski Z. Uranium Mining Processing and Nuclear Energy. Chap 6.
        Commonwealyh Govt Australia 2006.

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      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        Many thanks Tony and Evor. I’ve now successfull accessed the site. The numbers themselves are frightening, but their suppression by MSM is maybe more so.
        Cheers,
        Dave B

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Wind turbines kill more people than nuclear!

      There is a slogan to stir the greenies.

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  • #
    Streetcred

    German Medical Doctors Warn Hazards Of Wind Turbine Infrasound Are Very Real, Worse Than First Thought! – See more at:

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    Streetcred

    German Expert: Wind Turbine Infrasound Travels 25 KM…Warns Of Health Hazards…Advises Minimum 5000 Meter Distance!

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    Streetcred

    Acoustic Torture” …Austrian Chamber Of Physicians Warns Of Health Hazards From Large-Size Wind Turbines

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    Streetcred

    Germany: City Council Members Approving Wind Parks May Face Personal Liability For Damage To Health!

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    diogenes 23

    If all of this is conclusive that wind turbines are so bad (sources are only bias sources) , one does not need millions no prove it, yet it is here spoken it is a done deal, just like what is said about clcmate science. Inconsistency. there are hundreds in place already elsewhere in the world where i dont see these complaints coming from.

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    diogenes 23

    amazing with all those varied windmill designs only these have these problems. it doesn’t matter they don’t run 24 hrs neither does the wind. all i see is i like science if it already agrees with me. Popper said one should try to disprove ones own ideas. you haven’t provided me with anything that helps me with that.

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    • #
      Robk

      I think you need to provide yourself with some ideas to disprove or otherwise. I’ve done my best.

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    • #
      Analitik

      Stop spamming the site with your opinions and do some research

      How about this couple (Clive and Petrina Gare) who receive A$200,000 a year for having 19 wind turbines installed on their property yet they would gladly forego the income if the things could be removed because of the infrasound (even after having their house modified by the operators)? And note how intrusive the installation and maintenance is.

      Senate Select Committee on Wind Turbines – 10/06/2015

      Now they are entitled to hold an opinion.

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    • #
      AndyG55

      dio.. you need to form your own coherent idea first.

      (you obviously are nowhere near that stage)

      There are masses of scientific studies of the dangers of infrasound over the longer term.

      ALL large wind turbines create infrasound (when they actually turn)

      Do some research.

      Analytic has given you 5 good links.. follow them and try to learn something real.

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  • #
    handjive

    It is indeed “irresponsible” when there are little green men from Mars causing the global warming to go missing into the deep oceans.

    But , have no fear, Billary is here:

    Hillary On Area 51 Secrets: ‘I Think We Ought To Share It With The Public’ [VIDEO]
    . . .
    “Firing ray gun now” said Billary.

    Cleaning up with a carbon (sic) tax afterwards, everyone was saved.

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  • #
    Gerry

    No Trick Zone has had some references lately to health impacts of wind turbines ….

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  • #
    Michel Lasouris

    Irrespective of the number of these wind generators. I want to know the location of the windfarms, how many households, people there are near each one, ,and the distance they are from the windmills. And the type of ground structure on which they stand would be good too

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    AndyG55

    Let’s hope Africa can avoid too many of these infernal wind contraptions.

    Like whales, elephants use infrasound for long distance communication.

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    manalive

    As others have mentioned Simon Chapman has been a leading light in the campaign to stamp out tobacco smoking, at least as cigarettes.
    Now I’m a longtime ex-smoker and nowadays I find secondhand smoke pretty unpleasant however I believe every competent adult has the right to go to hell in there own way.
    Back in 1995 the good emeritus professor was apparently disturbed that a study carried out on the health effects of SHS showed ’irresponsible’ results, after all it’s important that public health studies come up with the correct answers suitable for the consumption of a bovine public.
    Here are the details and his response.

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    • #
      manalive

      It’s good to see that the PM has assured the ABC interviewer that this study will come up with the correct result and “… will serve to allay a lot of anxiety … and that’s a very important thing to do”.
      Call me cynical.

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  • #
    Rod Staurt

    Many years ago the Soviet Union experimented with low frequency riot control.
    The NSA in the USA have a weapon they call a LRAD (Long Range Audio Device).
    This article discusses the effect of ELF (extremely low frequency) of 1 to 30 Hz. on the human body.
    Perhaps windmills have more to do with driving people crazy that producing electricity.

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    boyfromTottenham

    Rod Staurt – you are spot on regarding infrasound being used as a non-lethal weapon. Also, the current various national EPAs (USA, EU, Australia, etc.) REQUIRE wind turbine noise to be measured by a specified type of ‘sound level meter’ with a specification that technically EXCLUDES the ability to measure frequencies below 10-20 Hz (because these frequencies are inaudible, but not because they are safe!). Therefore, any measurements taken with this SPECIFIED devise will NOT detect any infrasound, because they are specifically designed NOT TO!. Very clever, eh?

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    PeteB

    So I’m just wondering about the letters here and the overwhelming view of the comments of the detrimental effect of wind turbines and the need for research or to ban them outright.

    Don’t you all think that maybe some of the heat could be taken out of this issue for all sides by advocating for equivalent research and ‘commissioners’ for health effects of coal mining, fossil fuel power generation, CSG extraction? On the very simplest of levels – would you rather live next to a coal mine or a windfarm – perhaps neither but the coal mine noise and dust would be unbearable in my opinion yet they are foisted on communities continuously.

    Cheers

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