JoNova

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Carbon causes PTSD (Stressed, anxious, violent? Blame climate change)

Once there were no storms, the climate was perfect and everyone was nice to each other. Then people got air conditioners to make the climate even more perfect, and God was not happy. Along came droughts, floods and plagues and everyone got post traumatic stress disorder.

Humans are just not designed to live in a world where the seas rise 1mm a year. (What,we can’t run fast enough?)

The news on our mental health is dire according to a report from the National Wildlife Foundation (on climate change only the Experts are right, but in other fields, anyone can have a stab, right?).

 In America, 200 Million People Will Suffer ‘Psychological Distress’ From Climate Change

So Grok hid in a cave and made it through an ice age, but the modern pajama-boy will have a panic attack if the world warms by one degree.

Hands up who wants a paleolithic health-plan? Their babies died of dysentery. They ate snake soup or they starved, but somehow the tough-nuts who survived evolved into Five Star Pansies.

The Psychological Effects of Global Warming on the United States,” examines the hitherto undiscussed effects of increasingly prevalent extreme weather, sea level rise, drought and other impacts of climate change on mental health. How will we cope with a changing world?

But really cyclones were so much more fun when we lived in bark-huts. No one cared if the house blew away — they just popped up another one. It was like that with babies too right?

The climate hasn’t changed in the last 18 years, imagine the damage that sort of “change” can do? Seems more likely to cause  deep disillusionment as so many heroes turned out to be gullible patsies or people on the take. There’s a scenario for depression when today’s teen finds out the ABC, the CSIRO and “profs” were all selling schemes to change the weather  which had no chance of success.

Since we’re talking about mental suffering, how about the stress caused right now to sufferers of real PTSD whose condition is now being used for political points. “I got my PTSD because it didn’t rain, how about you?”

Are you feeling uneasy? It could be the first signs of Climate change.

H.t Climate Depot, and see also Eric Worrall at WUWT.

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144 comments to Carbon causes PTSD (Stressed, anxious, violent? Blame climate change)

  • #
    Sceptical Sam

    somehow the tough-nuts who survived evolved into Five Star Pansies.

    Yep. And they can be found huddled together in hipster metro-sexual inner urban coffee shops. The real world remains a mystery to them. They are waiting for somebody to tell them how that works too. In the interim they just continue to sip the CAGW Kool-aid.

    442

    • #
      Sweet Old Bob

      Sip ? More like SLURP!

      120

    • #
      John in Oz

      Can you get Kool-aid in a metro-sexual inner urban coffee shop?
      I must look the next time I get my half caff, half decaff, short black mocha latte with a lemon twist and a hint of quinoa.

      190

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      “Five Star Pansies” has to be the quote of the decade. It sums up these inept, impotent, imbeciles perfectly. God help them if they have to go forage food for themselves, they’d rather starve to death than hurt one of Gaia’s creations (forgetting that they are one of those creations).

      I can’t abide idiocy, nor can I tolerate it at all.

      60

  • #
    Andrew McRae

    And where else does all this PTSD come from…

    Pope calls for more good news stories after grim year.
    The media should give more space to positive, inspirational stories to counterbalance the preponderance of evil, violence and hate in the world, Pope Francis says in his year-end message.

    What a freaking hypocrite. Hey popey, if you want positive stories maybe you shouldn’t go around writing encyclicals of global warming alarmism.

    the pope uses a tone of prophetic urgency to describe climate change as “a global problem with grave implications” and one that requires a “bold cultural revolution” in mankind’s thinking.
    “Nobody is suggesting a return to the Stone Age,” Francis writes, “but we do need to slow down and look at reality in a different way [...]

    Fire and brimstone is out, global warming is in, now there’s a pope who knows how to go with the flow. Just a shame he’s creating more…
    Pope Transmitted Stress Disorder!

    491

    • #
      Climate Heretic

      Sorry to say but, Climate Change is the new Brimstone.

      Regards
      Climate Heretic
      PS /Sarc

      42

    • #
      Originalsteve

      Odd….I don’t have PTSD from climate change….as I know its scientifically impossible…..

      Must be the CAGW bed wetters that suffer from it…in which case, it will become a case of natural self limiting impact to only those who believe in fairy stories….oh the irony….

      00

  • #
    Tim Channon

    Whoa… the opposite is more likely true.

    PTSD, or more specifically complex PTSD is an affect of abuse, bullying and over a long period of time. Maybe, this is abuse where the victim cannot escape for whatever reason.

    I suggest this situation is more likely with an individual trapped within an abusive organization.

    Readers can figure out the rest.

    160

    • #
      Chris in Hervey Bay

      I agree completely. CPTSD will bring on the Stockholm Syndrome, rendering the sufferers under complete control of the abusers. This condition is not to be made light of, it is an extremely debilitating condition to be in.
      For the un treated, the usual way out, is drugs, alcohol, then suicide.

      50

  • #
    Rereke Whakaaro

    “The Psychological Effects of Global Warming on the United States,” examines the hitherto undiscussed effects of increasingly prevalent extreme weather, sea level rise …”

    Yep, if I waz ta be livin’ in Kansas, then I sure would be havin’ that thar PTSD comin’ around about them thar sea levels’.

    Tho’ what the Petersfield Township Sanitation Department could do, beats me.

    281

    • #
      bobl

      Its a Jocular Rereke this fine morn, thanks for the waking laugh.

      PTSD is far more likely from global warming alarmism, or global warming alarmism’s failure to dupe the bulk of the public than any actual warming effects. Noting of course that over 80% of people in surveys won’t willingly pay for the bed wetter’s slush fund. I suggest we expect an absolute epidemic of PTSD among greenies and activist climate scientists as the meme falls apart.

      170

      • #
        Robk

        When you’re running out of options you might panic when there’s no where to hide you stress. Hopefully their next step includes accepting that everything will be ok except the global government thing will need a rethink.

        40

  • #
    Peter Miller

    People get phobias about the weirdest stuff, so maybe there are a few sad little darlings who are in danger of developing one over supposed climate change.

    This looks to me like just another call for even more pointless climate bureaucrats, or perhaps another brand new equally pointless climate bureaucracy.

    The Green Blob has to be protected at all costs and what better way than creating more bureaucrats working closely with more ‘climate scientists’ to produce even more gibberish and unfounded scare stories.

    With the greenies hell bent on de-industrialising the West, soon maybe the only jobs left will be those serving the insatiable appetite of the Green Blob.

    180

  • #
    tom0mason

    Oh no, I’ve now got PTSD to contend with!
    Who do I sue?
    :)

    Have a stress-free new year by ignoring the catastrophists — dismiss their arguments by always voting responsibly.

    140

    • #
      Yonniestone

      “Who do I sue?” I’d go after ‘Big Stupid’ imagine size of the class action! :)

      110

    • #
      bobl

      Where does one go to sue 270 stupid governments, the ABC, BBC and PBS simultaneously? The internet?

      Maybe we should do a public trial, I wonder if judge Judy is free?

      120

      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        Wiser souls than us have recently held a public trial. All hail the per-conceieved notion!
        http://www.democracynow.org/2015/12/31/the_people_vs_exxon_as_fossil

        40

        • #
          James Murphy

          A trial in absentia – It’s the perfect sort of show trial for the Green Blob to participate in, as there’s no annoying defendant present, and the “tribunal” has already made up their mind about the verdict. No thinking required, no need for facts, or deliberation either… I remember participating in mock-government things at primary school which were more coherent, sensible, and a much better method of explaining the democratic and governmental process than this piece of garbage.

          I wonder if any of the true believers can see the hypocrisy of having such a “trial” published on a site called ‘democracy now’

          Wasn’t this type of thing done at the other COP meetings as well?

          30

          • #
            Greg Cavanagh

            Not sure, but the names on the list should be familiar to everybody on this board. (and they should be embarrassed to have been part of this one-way mock trial).

            20

          • #
            PeterK

            Reminds me of Stalin’s show trials.

            Verdict pre-determined.

            Bullet to the head within 24-hours of conviction.

            Communists = Greens

            Nothing new here folks!

            30

  • #
    John F. Hultquist

    A fine post and a great start on 2016. Happy New Year!
    ~~~~~~~

    To clarify this bit:
    The climate hasn’t changed in the last 18 years,..

    Weather changes rapidly. Climates of Earth are different. People will argue but the last climate change was the Little Ice Age and it went bye-bye about 160 years ago. Even so it did not amount to serious and lasting changes in Earth’s climates. For example, the same sorts of trees that were on our hills 500 years ago are still there, along with the other plants and animals and the Salmon in the rivers.
    The Little Ice Age to now is minor climate change.
    Change from the last major glaciation is significant climate change.
    Serious climate change began a few million years ago when the connection of North and South America at the Isthmus of Panama came about.

    [Along with various other groups that lost their way, we dropped affiliation with the National Wildlife Foundation some years ago.]

    162

  • #
    diogenese2

    The point is that the stress is POST-traumatic, i.e. AFTERthe event. A suitable exercise would be to examine the wealth of traumatic events provided by history and the present(non-climatic)conflicts to observe exactly what common humanity can contend with and adapt to.
    This paper is drawn from a seminar in 2009. I read as far as the list of participants and decided that reading on would be a waste of what time I have left on this earth.
    The Preface though was a gas (no pun intended).
    “As the world begins to unravel and our role is undeniable the eyes of the world will be on us” In your dreams perhaps.
    “Questions be to be asked”

    “What will the rest of the world think of us”

    I think COP21 demonstrated quite clearly what the ‘rest of the world’ thought of the ‘destructive forces of climate change’.

    “Where will we be safe”

    There are already over 60 million people in the world asking that question and for many the answer is Western Europe, Australia and the USA! What a shame that after achieving that sanctity they will be deranged by the weather forecast.

    “How will we feel about ourselves”

    Well, if the authors are anything to go be – Smug, Self-satisfied and immensely intellectually superior to everybody else.

    Sceptical Sam #1 said it all really

    110

    • #
      Yonniestone

      True, this is just another case of warmists proclaiming the end of times from the lectern of a conference room in another 5 star hotel.

      Such apocalyptic warnings would be more effective if broadcast from a place like ‘Fantazy Land, Egypt.’

      131

    • #
      Robk

      Clearly they are concerned and stressed for themselves and their image. It’s encouraging that they are referring to it as post trauma, it’s the first step on the path to recovery.

      30

  • #
    spangled drongo

    “Humans are just not designed to live in a world where the seas rise 1mm a year.”

    Yes, they can relax. In my NOTW Moreton bay doesn’t get the old 9 foot king tides these days as it did 70 years ago.

    No SLR in 70 years here.

    But no doubt it must must be happening in other parts of the world’s oceans ☺.

    101

  • #

    Perhaps people would be less stressed if they were made aware that CO2 actually sustains and promotes life.

    170

  • #
    Ursus Augustus

    Jo, they are spot on – for once.

    I get stressed and angry every time I hear any kind of weather or bushfire report just waiting for the inane link to climate change. I get stressed just from seeing the temperatire map of the continent with RED kicking in at 30 degrees or so instead of say 40 ( which I admit is hot).

    The media have simply gone feral on this issue and are the main driver of the madness. THREAT, DEADLY, CLIMATE CHANGE are great hooks for any headline or voice over. MIRACLE, SAVED FROM are the fall back hook words when it is all revealed to be a crock. The media don’t give a rats, its two for the price of one from their position. There is a great scene in Annie Proulx’s The Shipping News which perfectly encapsulates this. Fluffy white clouds can be portrayed as “DEADLY STORM THREATENS TOWN” one day and when nothing eventuates its “TOWN SAVED FROM DEADLY STORM” the next.

    302

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      The Pope isn’t too clued on news. Bad news sells, newspapers full of good, happy stories go rapidly bankrupt. It is one of the reasons reporters are attracted to AGW nonsense. (The other is their gullibility after training at University).

      152

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      A few years ago now, I had a contract with our local City Administration, and was loaned a desk in the Press Office. The guy who ran that office was an ex-Journalist, who knew most of the other Journo’s in town.

      I was sitting at my desk when I heard him say, “Look, there is no story here … I don’t care what the editor wants … it will be, like, ‘Thousands escape death, as plane flies over’ … find something else …”

      It has nothing to do with informing people of the facts. It has everything to do with filling the column inches around the advertising.

      211

  • #
    handjive

    “Terry Root often goes to sleep at night wondering how she’ll be able to get up the next morning and do it all over again.
    Then the sun comes up and she forces herself out of bed.
    She might go for a run to release the pent-up anxiety.
    Sometimes she cries.”

    The diagnosis: global warming.

    It’s the End Of The World – How Do You Feel
    ~ ~ ~
    Uncovered 16th Century Hallucinatory Images Suggest That Today’s Climate Science Is Nothing But A Persistent Human Mental Disorder (notrickszone)

    “Fire in the sky, torrential rains, droughts and Biblical floods – all supposedly brought on by the sins and wickedness of man.
    Is it really a surprise we are hearing it all once again today?”

    Flashback 1933 : Australia’s Chief Weather Expert: Belief In Climate Change Is An ‘Error Of Human Memory’ – ‘When people compare the present with the past, they remember only the abnormal’ (via climatedepot)
    ~ ~ ~
    SMH, 1 January, 2016, Peter Hannam, still preying & profiting on the mentally unstable people:

    “If Santa really did reside at the North Pole, he could probably have doffed his thick coat for a few hours this week to dig his sled out of the slush.”

    From NYTimes, Dec. 25, 1940: Santa finds ‘strangest weather of his career’

    “Shifts from furs to sports togs as He makes his National Tour”

    131

    • #
      handjive

      Climatic Change and Witch-hunting: the Impact of the Little Ice Age on Mentalities by Wolfgang Behringer
      .
      Group therapy tackles climate change anxiety (dw.com)
      “Psychotherapist Rosemary Randall counsels people on their feelings of powerlessness and anxiety around climate change issues.
      In this interview with DW, she explains how this can contribute to a neccesary transformation.”
      .
      Time: The Battle Over Global Warming Is All in Your Head

      40

    • #
      Another Ian

      Handjive


      “Terry Root often goes to sleep at night wondering how she’ll be able to get up the next morning and do it all over again.
      Then the sun comes up and she forces herself out of bed.
      She might go for a run to release the pent-up anxiety.
      Sometimes she cries.”

      The diagnosis: global warming.”

      May not apply but just noting that lethargy is a known side effect of Coversyl blood pressure tablets

      30

    • #
      Geoff Sherrington

      Handjive notes “Terry Root often goes to sleep at night wondering how she’ll be able to get up the next morning and do it all over again.”

      Do what all over again? Root?

      ( A 2016 resolution was to make more use of my speed reading training.)

      60

      • #
        Another Ian

        Geoff

        Well sort of in keeping – -

        Way back when the New Scientist was I recall an item in (I think) Ariadne’s column on the likely extinction of a native Indonesian goat species. The local fishermen used threads of the male’s beard for lures and, in copulation, it wore them off. That conflict leading to restricted reproductive opportunity. Which thoughts then migrated to a lack of reporting of such facial alopacia in humans, but that it might have been a cause of Sampson’s hair problems and his weakness.

        20

  • #
    Rod Stuart

    Joanne warned us months ago that COP21 would expose the world to a plethora of dopey notions and scary stories.
    Has anyone heard of Erl Happ?
    The link is apparently Chapter Uno of an intended thirty or so chapters.
    Is this guy on to something? Does it relate to Dr. Evans’ pipes?
    What do you think?

    40

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Rod Stuart:

      Winemaker in WA. Margaret River. His ideas have been around for some time and get treated more seriously than “carbon dioxide controls temperature” stuff.

      62

    • #
      Robk

      From what I read he is not so much proposing the “pipes” of the DE model’s analogy but he is having a fair crack at trying to tease out how ionizing solar emissions that form ozone amongst other effects, can rapidly influence cloud cover and thus surface temp…very interesting. I’m keen to hear what the experts/specialist think and how that meshes with DE’s thinking.

      40

  • #
    Rod Stuart

    Here it is 8 O’clock and I haven’t yet had my morning constitutional.
    I guess it must be “climate change”. It was 33 yesterday and only 16 this morning. Is that cliamte or just the weather?
    When I take a serious look at the the climate classification for Tasmania, It seems to be Cfd primarily, at least in the more populated areas. It has been that way since Koppen first classified it in the 19th century.
    What is this “climate change” to which people refer?

    62

  • #
    el gordo

    The stress is coming from media beat ups, which work effectively on individuals who don’t think much and are prone to propaganda absorption.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2015/12/30/freak-storm-has-pushed-north-pole-to-freezing-point-50-degrees-above-normal/

    60

    • #
      Fuel Filter

      El Gordo, the idiot who wrote that article read the temp at North Pole *ALASKA* and mistook it for the actual Norh Pole.

      The WaPo is a Leftist rag, has been for decades, and everybody knows it. The twitterverse crucified her for her stupidity.

      It was delicious to behold…

      60

    • #
      Manfred

      Absolutely.
      The ‘stress’, the ‘anxiety’ is deliberately manufactured. It forms the required foundational propaganda, a depressing psychic diet of relentless MSM climatic catastrophism so vital to The UN Post-2015 Millennium Development Goals (aka The Agenda) and their installation by 2030.

      The climatism meme must be promoted as it speaks directly to the non-binding, fragile but extremely dangerous ‘political’ solution that requires not only the ongoing support of the political rank and file that swanned about at COP21 but the far reaching perception by the global sheeple that there actually is a climate problem that requires ‘solving’, which in fact there obviously isn’t. The tissue of lies, the layers of fabrication mount one on the other, increasing the intellectual distance between the original grand lie and its purported effects, the latter mere hand waving distraction as we all know.

      To this end, the NZ MSM TV weather forecast is for example the usual melange of met reportage and entrail gazing. However, the news itself is filled with the depiction of global weather ‘extremes’ – an abundance of manufactured ‘end-times’ images with a narrative of record breakage. The amusing thing is the frequently unremarkable comments made by people at the scene. These however, tend to be of lower volume and glossed over by the projectile vomitus of catastrophic imagery and verbiage.

      All that needs to be done is for someone set up a TV channel free of the climatism, eco-globalisation propaganda. The quality of life would immediately become inestimably better.

      The contrast would be stark indeed as I wager would be the spectacular ratings.

      100

      • #
        el gordo

        ‘All that needs to be done is for someone set up a TV channel free of the climatism, eco-globalisation propaganda. The quality of life would immediately become inestimably better.’

        Especially if we laugh at the alarmists, while at the same time presenting real time weather with examples of similar events in the past. In this way we can allay any fears that carbon dioxide is changing the weather.

        Where is our white knight?

        60

      • #
        el gordo

        Better still, if it was a crowd funding exercise it wouldn’t fail.

        40

    • #
      PeterPetrum

      Saw that story previously – apparently, the reporter (journalist, Twitter follower) mistook the town of North Pole, Alaska, as the real thing. You would have thought that the temperature reading from a “buoy” that somehow was floating in the sea at “North Pole” might have alerted her to the slush she was sliding into – - – weeps into morning coffee, sigh!

      51

  • #
    Ruairi

    The warmist mind can snap with climate-change,
    As just a mention can their brains derange.

    101

  • #
  • #
    James Murphy

    Jo, the link to gizmodo has an extra http:// at the end, so it doesn’t work.

    Aside from that, the comments section on said gizmodo page are enough to give me PTSD, but then, given the demographics of that site, it’s hardly surprising.

    I know a lot of people who are utterly fed up with everything being linked to climate change, but sadly, they are not so fed up that they are willing to do something about it (the ‘precautionary principle’ seems to be a very effective moderator for the transition from “true believer” to “denier”).

    60

    • #
      PeterPetrum

      Thanks, James, I got to the site. I read the first half dozen or so comments and they were all highly critical of the article – maybe there is hope!

      30

  • #

    Just more supporting evidence for my long held claim that climate alarmism would be affecting rates of youth depression and suicide.

    Alarmists at some point in time should be held accountable for terrorizing and extorting a generation.

    152

    • #
      el gordo

      Teachers, politicians, journalists and scientists all need to be severely mocked, but we shouldn’t worry ourselves unnecessarily about a lost generation.

      In the 1950s children grew up with the fear of nuclear holocaust and other abominations which didn’t happen, so I’m thinking the media needs to change because we no longer believe in the message.

      40

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        You are right. Many Europeans grew up with the fear of nuclear holocaust and other abominations which didn’t happen.

        But whether or not the the threat was realised; for these poor souls, the fear was ever present, and it has affected their entire world view.

        To this very day, many still carry a brown paper bag to put over their head, in the event of a nuclear attack.

        31

    • #
      Manfred

      Precisely safetyguy66.

      Al Gore et al. quite literally created the ‘pathology’ in order to promote The Final Solution, and the desirable side-effect of unquantifiable personal wealth.

      There may well be no greater example of rank, orchestrated, global hypochondriasis.

      Patients with illness climate anxiety disorder may or may not have a medical condition but have heightened bodily sensations, are intensely anxious about the possibility of an undiagnosed illness unforeseen extreme weather event, or devote excessive time and energy to health climate concerns, often obsessively researching them. Like people with somatic symptom disorder, they are not easily reassured. Illness Climate anxiety disorder can cause considerable distress and life disruption, even at moderate levels.

      Acknowledgement to the Mayo Clinic, DSM-5 redefines hypochondriasis.

      71

      • #

        If the same amount of money that was wasted to date on climate change went on terrorism and public health, many diseases would now be eradicated and terrorism no more. The problem is that there would be no further opportunities for graft.

        Graft (politics) – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graft_(politics)

        Graft, a form of political corruption, is the unscrupulous use of a politician’s authority for personal gain. The term has its origins in the medical procedure …

        Description · Examples · History of graft

        61

  • #
    John Michelmore

    I’m sorry my brain has reached its tipping point and I’m sure it’s a type of PTSD, at school and Uni I was taught that acidic pH’s were below 7.0, now that’s changed to below 8.1 because the seas are acidic. Taxation of carbon can control the worlds climate! There is an explosion in polar bear numbers, but a few years ago the last one was seen floating away on a small piece of melting ice. I just can’t cope anymore. heeeeelp.

    141

  • #

    SMH, 1 January, 2016, Peter Hannam,
    “If Santa really did reside at the North Pole, he could probably have doffed his thick coat for a few hours this week to dig his sled out of the slush.”

    It turned out that the report came from North Pole, Alaska, near Fairbanks, 1700 miles from the North Pole that they want you to think that it is. The SMH is not there to inform you. it is there to misinform you, or wrap up Fish and Chips.

    100

    • #
      Another Ian

      Nicholas

      Haven’t they been banned as a fish and chips wrapper?

      Time to ban the other use too IMO

      60

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      The SMH makes a very good lining for a pet tray. As a bonus, your pet can read the advertisements, if it gets bored.

      40

  • #
    Rod Stuart

    Note that the article to which Gizmodo refers is four years old.
    Bill Nye gets a mention. I think it is a self evident truth that “climate change” creates mental health issues in certain patients, driving them stark raving mad.
    Nye, Weepy Bill McKibbon, Oreskes, Klein, and the Pope are all perfect examples of this phenomenon.
    In the absence of any evidence of “climate change”, one would have to conclude that they were crazy as Hell to start with.

    121

  • #
    ROM

    I think I am getting a severe case of “Post Traumatic Stress Disorder” [ PTSD ] after listening to and reading in the MSM about all that past “devastating” Climate Change, that I apparently lived through and had to try and make a living through as a farmer over the 77 years of my lifetime.

    At least it often seemed like it was something very like “devastating Climate Change” as we are now being made aware of, but of course “devastating Climate Change” hadn’t been invented during the first 70 or so years of my lifetime so to us oldies it was just “bloody weather” !

    Or maybe in my dotage I am finally getting an attack of PTSD just from reading and listening to the rantings and ravings of an increasingly feckless and irremediable MSM.

    110

  • #
    scaper...

    Ah, the ‘victim’ mentality. The range of excuses for evading personal responsibility these days is anastomotic.

    Build a dam and damn them I reckon. That will be the day!

    70

    • #
      scaper...

      Speaking of sea level rise…have been approached to write a submission on such to an inquiry, yet to be announced.

      I’m leaning towards damming of rivers and pumping the water inland to save our lives from the encroachment.

      Shirley (sic) it would be the right thing to do? But will the warmists come on board?

      I doubt it, could attract a ‘class action’ due to PTSD that they will claim. But only after the fact.

      A belated Happy New Year to all!

      51

      • #
        Robk

        You mean flood Lake Eyre with a canal. That’ll get a bit of climate change happening.

        70

        • #
          scaper...

          Sure would.

          Environmental engineering is not a dirty word…unless one is a purist.

          Hardly progressive thinking concerning the purists.

          51

          • #
            Robk

            There’s a fair chance it would greatly improve the country’s carrying capacity and prosperity.

            40

            • #
              GrahamP

              Robk

              I remember this idea being discussed when I was at school in Adelaide in the 50′s.

              This link may be of interest

              http://larryhannigan.com/lakeeyre_old.htm

              20

              • #
                Graeme No.3

                Bradfield (Sydney Harbor Bridge) and Idriess (author) wrote a book in 1940 about damming rivers in Queensland and diverting the waters to Lake Eyre.
                Hartnett (head of Holden when it started local manufacture) wanted to use ~7000 tonnes of surplus explosives from WW2 to blast the channel through from Spenser Gulf. (Instead the army used it to stage a mock nuclear blast in Queensland tropical forest.)
                I once suggested in the local paper (tongue firmly in cheek) that the canal could provide hydro electricity when the wind turbines didn’t work, and could be reverse pumped as ‘pumped storage’ for when there was excess turbine output. Some people took it seriously.

                The idea has been around for a while, but you have to realise that the 15metre figure only applied to a small area and the average depth below sea level is closer to 6 metres. Reality stuffs romantic idea!

                50

              • #
                Robk

                Thanks GP & G3, a good read. Yes, the fall over that distance does rule out any low cost options.

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            • #
              bobl

              Lake ayre is probably a little salty to do that, but I reckon some areas along the way would benefit

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              • #
                scaper...

                On the ball…as usual, Bob.

                20

              • #
                bobl

                Personally, 1mm per year being the height of a layer of sand around 2 grains high – in a year!

                Scaper, we engineers have technological devices for solving this problem that have existed for thousands of years, they are called piles of dirt. Even animals, ants, termites and beavers can manage to solve flood issues.

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                el gordo

                The Chinese bought all of Ord River stage 2 and now stage 3 is going ahead with optimism.

                Because of evaporation Lake Eyre is a no-brainer, but a pipeline from the Ord to the new towns and cities should be cost effective.

                Tons of work for environmental engineers, designers and landscapers.

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              • #
                Robk

                I seem to recall reading that the Israelis got pretty good at extracting energy from stratified shallow brine(the lower layer able to become remarkably hot, while the fresher layer remains cooler from evaporation) You’d have the makings of a mother of solar collectors with buffered storage on your door step.

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      • #
        ROM

        If global sea levels ever even indicate a faint hint of falling, we, that is the entire current fauna and flora life forms of this planet are again heading for a very serious long term cooling of the planet, a potential new Ice Age as the ocean waters are increasingly locked up in newly forming and growing ice packs and continental sized ice fields.
        Such a cooller / colder period is usually associated with an accompanying period of severe global aridity due to the consequent low atmospheric humidity levels.
        Aridity is a well known characteristic of a cold atmosphere, [ Russia's Antarctic "Vostok" station has an average annual 4.5 mms precipitation ]

        While current sea levels rise albeit very, very slowly if at all compared to previous paleo events, it shows that we are still emerging from the major Ice age of some 12,000 years ago and then the Little Ice Age which more or less ended in around the mid 1600′s.

        A continuation of a warm / warming climate and the consequent very slow rise in sea levels is an excellent indicator that we can continue to expect a warming wetter world, a world in which we will be able to continue to feed a growing world population as the climate remains warm and therefore wetter and thereby a maximising of plant growth and the consequent global food production.

        Currently there appears to be a very slow rise in global sea levels although the amount of the quite variable annual sea level rise is still under highly contentious debate as unwarranted and unrealistic Adjustments to the claimed global sea levels annual rises such as the Colorado University Sea Level research group’s “Global Isostatic Adjustment” [ GIA ] adds 0.3mm each year [ the error bars in annual sea level rise data is plus or minus 0.4 mm ] are to the official sea level rise are making the assessment of sea level rises almost impossible to accurately assess

        This extra increase in the claimed annual global sea level as imposed on the official record by the Colorado University group does NOT EXIST in the actual reality of the measured global sea level changes.
        It is a purely hypothetical estimation that claims to show official sea level changes that are relative to the center of the planet and that account for the changing volume of the oceans due to the ever changing, ever shifting crust of the planet.
        —————-
        THIS is what the global Government’s disaster relief organisations SHOULD be taking a very long hard look at and preparing for as a Major space body impact is a given arguably and based on past impact event timings, sometime, somewhere on the planet within the next century or less.

        NASA; Near Earth Object Program

        NASA has listed the KNOWN objects that come within Earth’s gravitational fields and an odd one of those objects is close to a kilometre across, enough to wipe out an entire continent if such an object again hit Earth.
        What is unknown are the objects such as out of say the OORT Cloud and there are objects in the OORT Cloud that are close to Pluto in size, whose trajectory through space are modified by the Solar System’s and its planetary gravitational fields into falling into a trajectory that has a probability of entering the inner solar system and even intercepting Earth’s orbit.

        I will let you read the following and then you can make up your mind if we should be at all even bothering about a couple of millimetres rise in global sea levels or even a couple of degrees increase in global temperatures over the next century or so .
        Or whether the world’s Governments should be putting in place a whole globally co-ordinated stock pile of materials and food and water equipment and disaster recovery systems to help the tens of millions and perhaps at worst a billion or so of human souls whose lives will be mostly destroyed by the impact of a major space object on a continent or in an ocean and the consequent tsunami somewhere on Earth.

        Space Guard Center;

        Near Earth Objects & Impact Effects

        However, the main killing mechanism will be the vast amount of dust and debris injected into the upper atmosphere, combined with the smoke from the firestorms (witness recent events in Indonesia). These will obscure the Sun and cause a phenomenon similar to, but much more severe than the “nuclear winter” that became such an issue during the Cold War. It is this that is likely to pose the greatest threat to the ecosphere on a global scale as food chains collapse and darkness, cold and starvation set in.

        After a few months or years the atmosphere will clear, but the surface of the Earth, now mainly white in colour, might reflect too much of the Sun’s radiation to prevent a new ice age. However, there are other mechanisms at work. The atmosphere will contain a substantial excess of CO2, resulting from the global fires, the release of the gas from carbonate rocks and volcanism. The Earth could be in for a massive overdose of greenhouse effect. The balance between sweltering and freezing is a very fine one. Such globally threatening events can be expected on time scales of 100,000 years.

        Smaller strikes, in the 50-100 metre range, though not globally threatening, have in the past caused massive damage to the area of impact, and often at considerable distance. We saw this at Tunguska in 1908 and in the Amazonian Rain Forest in 1930. The spread of human settlement, civilisation, and particularly urbanisation, makes it much more likely that a future impact, even relatively small, could result in the massive loss of human life and property. The time scale for such impacts is between 50 and 100 years.

        Even much smaller impacts can have significant effects. Typically a 10-metre diameter body will have the kinetic energy of about 100 kilotons (Hiroshima was about 15 kilotons), and is likely to detonate at an altitude above 10 km, causing little or no damage on the ground, but considerable alarm to those who witness it as was seen on 9 October 1997 in El Paso, Texas. Such events have been recorded by US surveillance satellites at the rate of one or two per month, and smaller Kiloton sized explosions happen every 1 to 10 days.

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          el gordo

          The AD 1300 Event may have been caused by a very large object falling into the Pacific and of course there is the much debated Younger Dryas.

          Of more relevance, there was a 468 year aridity pulse in Europe at Eemian’s end, no need to worry about glaciation just yet.

          20

        • #
          sophocles

          The Dinosaur Killer strike 65MYa is a perfect example. They should be examining the proxies to determine the time it took to recover from that. There was a wide spread burning shortly after (in geological time frames) the main impact if the layer of soot over the iridium-rich debris in the fossil record is anything to go by.

          It was a warm climate up to about 35MYa when there was a cooling. There are some large impact craters across the North American continent about 100 – 200 km diameter dating from 39MYa to 30MYa, which could be coincidence or a trigger. That was also about the time Antarctica settled into its current position and began laying down its glaciers.

          It was quite warm from about 5MYa and the current Ice Age took over about 3MYa. Its had iver 30 glaciations since with 17 of them over the last 700KYs so the present Holocene interstadial is not `unprecedented.

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  • #
    TdeF

    We have gone in fifty years from 5 minutes to midnight from a nuclear holocaust to worrying about our cities docks in thousands of years. On the terrifying rise of 1mm per year, it is best expressed as a metre per thousand years.

    Few of the world’s cities are as old as 1,000 years and usually on higher ground anyway. Many are building into the ocean, airports and new real estate. Worse for the apocalypse pushers, the cities are also growing upwards rapidly as cities have done for all time. Ancient cities like Troy were found 13 layers down. Then you have the eponymous Nederlands which are already under water and life is good. New York, London, Shanghai have massive underground layers include transport and endless tunnels. In Dubai new cities are built offshore by crazy people, apparently. Even the coral atolls climb to match water levels, which is why they are at water level in the first place. So there is no need to run. What was openly predicted by the ABC’s Science expert Robyn Williams was a Sydney under 100 metres of water in 2100. To use the technical scientific phrase, he was wrong. Having not seen the slightest change in sea level in a lifetime, this one is busted as a future disaster. There are real problems coming with the rate of growth of human populations, but the Greens do not worry about them.

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    Thumbnail

    Oh, God. Please make it stop. I am personally disowning every friend and family member that believes this utter tripe.

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  • #

    Queensland did NOT get a Cyclone recently when the Low formed in the Northern Monsoon.

    However, that did not stop the ABC News (Queensland) from mentioning the word Cyclone in the News for around six days, a couple of times in the main body of the news, near the start, and then a further couple of times during the Weather report, with projected maps for the, umm, imminent Cyclone, possible names, tracking, who would be affected, what it would mean, and what people should do.

    I think it’s all called the Boy Who Cried Wolf effect.

    I actually think they were disappointed when it didn’t spin up.

    And it seems worthy of mentioning that other recent addition to the weather. Every time a Low forms in the Coral Sea, the weather report says that forecasters are keeping an eye on it in case it turns into ….. a Cyclone. Some of them are even off the top of the Map.

    It seems to me that the media looks suspiciously like they are drumming up the fear factor.

    Tony.

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    Robber

    I wonder how long it will be before someone makes a WorkCover claim or sues their employer? I’m suffering psychological stress doe to climate change. Perhaps the Fair Work Commission VP Michael Lawler, who has taken more than nine months of sick leave on full pay of $435,000 as he helps his partner Kathy Jackson, a disgraced former union leader, defend criminal charges, could use this defence.

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    The Backslider

    I firmly do believe that yes, “climate change” is causing a lot of (unnecessary) stress for a lot of people.

    Please note that I have placed that term within quotes, to indicate that I am talking about the “climate change” promulgated by alarmist. Natural climate change is at present relatively stress free, although that could change, particularly if we start heading towards significant cooling which would see mass migrations from Europe to Africa.

    The stress caused by alarmism has shown itself to have a significantly negative effect on society, not only the stress, but also the extreme rise in bigotry and intolerance, which best correlates with religious extremism and intolerance.

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘…particularly if we start heading towards significant cooling which would see mass migrations from Europe to Africa.’

      Most unlikely, its far less dislocating to feed, clothe and house people adequately where they are. If there is migration it will be the middle class fleeing the cold wet winters for warmer climes and returning home in the summer.

      The big problem in a cooling world is monsoon failure.

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  • #
    TdeF

    My particular passion is looking up people’s qualifications. Robyn Williams has an Honours Science degree in Biology. This does not qualify him in any way to talk about sea level rises or anything but biology. His 100 metre sea rises were just fantasy, backed by their ABC.

    It is interesting that self appointed Climate Scientists like Tim Flannery (English degree) and Al Gore (English degree) are not the slightest bit qualified in any hard science or mathematics or computer modelling, but claim to be Climate experts and even technology experts. In fact none of our publicly funded Climate Commission the self hired Climate Council were meteorologists.

    Even so, it is amazing that self appointed Climate Scientists feel more than qualified to then talk about the consequences of say sea rises on coral atolls or increases in temperature in the arctic or the effects of a tiny change in average temperature on the frequency of cyclones or bushfires or the impact of climate on society. Clearly being an expert Climate Scientist makes you knowledgeable and infallible in all other fields, where being a real scientist disqualifies you from an opinion on the new field of Climate Science.

    Christiana Figueres, head of the whole UN Climate Change circus is an anthropologist whose father and brother just happened to be Presidents of Costa Rica. Other leading climate experts include Australian economists like Ross Garnaut and Richard Dennis and even soporific former reserve banker Bernie Fraser. Now we have a new Prime Minister no one elected who as a lawyer and merchant banker wants a carbon trading scheme to send our money overseas. I prefer real PM Tony Abbott’s statement that Climate Science was “absolute crap”. We need our real PM back.

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    • #
      Manfred

      One quintessential qualification required for climate ‘science’ is a BA in political ‘science’, sometimes referred to as ‘the art of lying’.

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      • #
        sophocles

        One quintessential qualification required for climate ‘science’ is a BA in political ‘science’, sometimes referred to as ‘the art of lying’.

        Don’t forget degrees in Psychology, like the owner/operator of SkepticalScience.com, the Great `Climate Communicator’ of Queensland University and Impersonator of Lubos Motl. Definitely a useful qualification for writing propaganda.

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  • #
    pat

    CPTSD is just the tip of the climate health iceberg:

    1 Jan: Kevin MD: We owe it to our patients to lead and support climate change action
    by Richard Bruno, MD and Elizabeth Wiley, MD, JD, MPH
    The Paris Agreement specifically recognizes the climate/health nexus, reflecting the numerous direct and indirect impacts that affect our patients, from heat stress and heat strokes, non-communicable diseases, crop reduction and food shortages, droughts and water shortages, polluted resources and infectious disease, and the ensuing violence, war, and terrorism that combat for control of scarce resources (see graphic above)…
    Health professionals from organizations all over the world have heralded the Paris Agreement as “an unprecedented victory for people and planet.” Dr. Xavier Deau, general practitioner and former president of the World Medical Association, noted, “We the physicians have the ethical duty to stand for the health of the population … and are now looking forward and calling on their governments to get to work protecting the health of their populations.” …
    A Lancet Commission report (LINK) issued earlier this year on Climate Change and Health identified tackling climate change could be “the greatest health opportunity of the 21st century.”…
    Clean energy, such as solar and wind, are far less detrimental to public health, and have the potential to create millions of new jobs in our country…
    Drawing on this momentum, physicians can be active on this issue by signing on to the WHO’s Our Climate, Our Health campaign Call to Action, and learning more about how climate change affects patients’ health and strategies physicians can employ to address these threats. The Global Climate & Health Alliance also offers additional resources and information about climate change and health. In addition, Health Care Without Harm offers specific resources and recommendations for environmentally responsible health care…
    We owe it to our patients to lead and support climate change action now.
    http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2016/01/we-owe-it-to-our-patients-to-lead-and-support-climate-change-action.html

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    • #
      Robk

      He’s been sipping the cool-aid.

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      The crisis is “the greatest health opportunity of the 21st century.”
      Physician see a psychiatrist.

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    • #
      TdeF

      “the numerous direct and indirect impacts that affect our patients, from heat stress and heat strokes, non-communicable diseases, crop reduction and food shortages, droughts and water shortages, polluted resources and infectious disease, and the ensuing violence, war, and terrorism that combat for control of scarce resources”

      Wow! All this from a mere 0.8C in an average in the last hundred years? You would think WW1,WW2,Mao’s revolution were non events compared with the devastation from +0.8C. Forget also the increase from 1.6Billion to 7.3Billion in the same time and the consequence pressure on scarce resouces?

      Cool aid does not explain this nonsense.

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    StefanL

    From the report: “Priority for guidelines, models, training and other support should be given to mental health professionals.”

    After all, why should only the climate “scientists” get the easy money ?

    It needs to be shared around !

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    • #

      StefanL mentions this:

      Priority for guidelines, models, training and other support should be given to mental health professionals.

      Not just them, but to all health professionals really.

      I like to keep out of getting into talking about climate change/global warming, because I’m actually astonished how ignorant people are of even the most basic things, and people have no concept of scales when it comes to anything associated with that and related subjects like power generation or the like.

      About a year or so prior to our move here to Rockhampton, back in 2008/9, my aging Mother needed a small procedure done as a day surgery, and Mum asked me if I would drive here there into Southport, wait around during the procedure and then drive her back home when it was done.

      Prior to the small procedure, the young lady doing the minor surgery did some tests, and I sat in with Mum. She took us to a room where there was more electrical equipment crammed into that space than I have ever seen. She carried out some tests and then went back into her small consulting room, just a small room really, around the size of a second bedroom. While she was taking notes Mum mentioned that with all that electrical equipment she would be a big contributor towards global warming. I tried to send the subliminal ‘don’t go there Mum’ message to Mum, but the young lady cut in, probably meant more to ease any pre-op tensions than anything else, but she was off, mentioning it was a major problem, especially with those Carbon emissions, and for a Doctor, that caused me to raise my eyebrows a little, thinking at least as a Doctor, she would know the difference and have added the ….. Dioxide to the word Carbon.

      I just said nothing, listening in. She then asked the question ….. do either of you know what the carbon concentration of the Atmosphere is? and hey, I don’t know, maybe because I had said nothing, but she looked directly at me.

      At that time, late 2008, it was still just below 400PPM, so I replied with the correct response, 398PPM, and then before she could reply, I added that if this whole room we were sitting in was the total Atmosphere, what would be the CO2 content, and not giving her even the time to respond, I told her that it was the same as for three of those tissue boxes, and she had one on here desk.

      The look on her face was just priceless.

      You know the look.

      Who is this idiot?

      She just shook her head and said that it was way way way more than that.

      I just smiled, while Mum got back onto message about the procedure, luckily, but I wasn’t going to say any more anyway.

      Later on, as Mum and I were waiting for her to be called into the small Theatre, she asked me if that was correct, because it seemed such an incredibly small amount.

      I had sort of guesstimated, as it’s different with different situations, and the room was around 3M X 3M X 2.4M to the ceiling, so with a tissue box at 12CM X 22CM X 10CM, then 3 tissue boxes is roughly the same volume by comparison at around 400PPM.

      It was a standard thing I used with most people, having worked it out before, because when you express it like that, it always astonishes people as to how small it really is.

      All they know is that they are told it is such a large amount, and you could call it 400 little puppies and it would mean the same as 400 parts per million. People don’t understand what parts per million really means at all, just that it’s an awfully ….. big amount.

      I think that’s how they get away with it because once people sit down and rationally try to understand that there’s so many things related to this, some monstrously huge and others quite minute, and therein lies the concept of scale, and no one has the slightest idea of any of those scales, and as soon as you try to explain it correctly people give you that same look.

      Who is this idiot?

      So, I stay away from it, unless directly asked.

      Even medical professionals get sucked in by it all, and they should know better.

      Tony.

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        Len

        Tony, the “doctor” probably had the degree, MBBS. That is Medical Bachelor plus Bachelor of
        Surgery. Why they are referred to as ‘Doctor” no one seems to know. There are two medicals degrees above this, Master of Medicine, MMed, and Doctor of Medicine, MD. The Americans of course call their first medical degree MD. The vets and the dentists here are know using the honorific title “Doctor” although they don’t have doctorates. it appears to have come from America. Their Sergeants have the same ranking as our Lance Corporals or Leading Aircraftman as an example. There is no registrar of Medical Doctors, they are registered as medical practitioners.

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        • #
          Manfred

          It is easy to confuse the occupational title ‘doctor’ with the academic title ‘doctor’. This common usage, occupationally descriptive word (doctor) applies to one who typically practices medicine. This has more recently grown to include all manner of ‘practices’ and occupations such as ‘tree doctor’, ‘foot doctor’, ‘carpet doctor’, ‘fridge doctor’, ‘lawn doctor’ etc…

          The word ‘Doctor’ originates from the Latin, ‘Doceo’ – I teach (inform, instruct).

          The academic title ‘doctor’ generally refers to the highest level of academic degree, which a bachelors degree in medicine (MB or equivalent) definitively is not.

          The usual qualification required to register and practice medicine is a bachelors degree (or equivalent – which may confusingly be the US ‘doctor of medicine’ – MD. In the Commonwealth however, it is more usual to gain an MD as a higher academic qualification above MB. A US ‘MD’ is therefore not equivalent to the higher medical degree of a Commonwealth MD, but is equivalent to an MB).

          Moreover, the Commonwealth ‘MD’ should not be conflated with a ‘PhD’. The former is a vocational qualification, the latter a research qualification.

          The occupational title ‘doctor’ serves merely as a loose pedestrian description of occupation. It is confusingly said to be an ‘honorific’ in the case of practicing medicine, dentistry etc… only because it is being conflated with the highest academic degree, namely Doctor of Philosophy (or variations thereof). This latter title is purely academic and is typically reserved to demote the ability to design, conduct and supervise research.

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      • #
        StefanL

        Perhaps we should always call it 0.04%

        that sounds smaller than 400 ppm :-)

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  • #
    KinkyKeith

    CO2 is an essential part of being alive.

    No CO2 in the bloodstream leads to death inside 20 minutes

    http://joannenova.com.au/2014/05/david-kear-former-director-general-nz-dsir-says-a-non-existent-threat/#comment-1446523

    Oxygen can be dangerous, see this. http://www.damninteresting.com/beware-the-dangers-of-oxygen/

    As Roy points out, it is not so dangerous at altitude where more assistance is needed to remove CH breakdown products from the blood via the lungs.

    Rereke mentioned using a huge CO2 content in gases used in submarine escape drills.

    The SCIENCE is in. CO2 is off the hook. It’s a benign essential to our survival.

    KK

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      TdeF

      It is tiring to read nonsense about Australia’s ‘big polluters’, villainous greedy business people who carelessly generate CO2 by making things or driving or growing crops or digging up dirt. The 6 billion in increase in the world population has much more to do with CO2 ‘pollution’ in Australia than this myth of ‘big polluters’.

      Firstly 98% of all our CO2 comes from overseas. Then the extra 6 billion people since 1900 breathe out 18 billion extra tons of CO2 per year when Australia’s entire CO2 output is only 409 Million tons. So these unthinking huddled masses produce 45 times as much CO2 as all of Australia simply by breathing out! This is clear evidence to punish our ‘big polluters’ by sending our cash overseas to pay people to stay backward and destitute and breathe more slowly. You have to be amazed at the utterly selfish and self serving mentality of the uncaring Greens. Still it’s a lot of cash and you cannot blame them for trying and the merchant bankers are more than ready to help. Malcolm?

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        Another Ian

        TdeF

        Re our pollution which comes from overseas

        WE’RE SINKING IT!!!

        http://www.beefcentral.com/news/tough-tree-laws-not-backed-by-evidence-senior-ecologist/

        And link

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        • #
          TdeF

          Yes, simple calculations show that the world owes us money after the big drought ended. However that is balanced by the start of a drought where vegetation died. Sweden does include biomass in their CO2 calculations, but not Australia.

          The other insanity is that trees are somehow better than grass. Why? This is a popular Green myth.

          There is nothing special about trees for CO2 capture. Photosynthesis is CO2 capture and they perform equally well. The competition between trees and shrubs and ferns and grasses for sunlight is hundreds of millions of years old and the crazy Greens have take the side of trees, when most animals cannot eat trees unless they are fruit trees and Australia has very few of those and no monkeys either. Cockroaches would be fine, especially termites. Maybe the Greens think like this?

          Humans need grasses. Fruit in India and SE Asia. However to listen to the Greens, you would think you could live on trees in an Australian forest? You would starve. No, this is part of the old German tree worship or the Eastern Shaman religions, earth, sky, wind, water. I guess it does explain their love of hot rocks, solar, windmills and waterwheels. One group of Greens want us to go back to the Middle Ages and the rest want us to be druids in the stone age. Would that make Tim Flannery a druidic priest? About the same mindset and scientific expertise.

          No, CO2 is not pollution. The capture of CO2 is the very process of photosynthesis on which all life depends. Carbohydrates are just as the name suggests (CO2)m(H2O)n, hydrated CO2. This ultimately rots to hydrocarbons (CH2)n and provides our fossil fuel. There is no magic here. We do the same thing every time we breathe with 0.04% CO2 going in and say 10% CO2 going out. I suppose that makes every human on the planet a thoughtless polluter who should be taxed? A carbon tax is really a tax on breathing, the dream of every government.

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    Ross

    Just been over at WUWT and found this little gem of a thread

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/01/01/we-have-bigger-problems-than-climate-change-so-sayeth-ipcc-ar5/

    So the IPCC says AGW will have very little impact on economies compared to other economic drivers.
    If the warmists had that pointed out to them ( ie. information from their own bible) then they might just have an extreme case of PTSD.

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    • #
      TdeF

      This is Lomborg’s argument. He agrees with man made Global Warming but says there are far bigger problems. So he is not to be given a voice even though hs is not a ‘denier’. It seems the only problem facing the world is CO2, the greatest threat in our time. So much for radical Isl*m, nuclear weapons, over population, starvation, plague, Ebola or water shortages or world poverty. Actually H2O is the other equal product of combustion and has vastly more effect on the weather, but who would believe water was dangerous?

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    Dennis

    Dennis
    January 2, 2016 at 3:28 pm · Reply
    Ocean Acidification: some so called marine scientists are quite mad ….

    http://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2016/01/fishy-science-ocean-acidification/

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      ““Ocean Acidification”, the evil twin of global warming, is scary because the chemistry is so simple.”
      The chemistry may be simple but the charlatans pushing the idea haven’t understood that chemistry at all.

      The White Cliffs of Dover were laid down under a sea with a minimum atmospheric carbon dioxide content of 1600ppm. (Actually the cliffs, and the South Down and the deposits on the French side are what remains after 65 million years of weathering).

      tallbloke.wordpress.com/Tony Thomas: The Fishy ‘Science’ of Ocean Acidification

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    • #
      TdeF

      98% of all free CO2 gas is dissolved in the ocean and in rapid exchange. So if the last 2% in the air broke physical laws and was absorbed entirely tomorrow, the CO2 content would rise a tiny 2%. So what? This ocean acidification is a lie.

      Chemists also know about buffered solutions and for the oceans to become acid, first all the world’s limestone would have to dissolve, including coral. That will never happen. Many of the world cities and the Pyramids of Giza are made from limestone. The White Cliffs of Dover would have to go too. The immense reserves of calcium carbonate would prevent an acid ocean. As said though the change in CO2 levels would be pitifully small.

      Solutions are alkali OR acid, either side of neutral. Water is either one or the other. So the use of the world ‘acidification’ is deliberately deceitful semantics and misinformation. Very slightly more neutral would be accurate, closer to fresh water and that cannot harm Nemo. There is no more blatant lie in the Global Warming scare than ocean ‘acidification’. For real scientists to give credence to this is beyond belief as it is schoolboy chemistry. Still, they are asked to scare people and presumably paid for doing so. Even so they all baulk at coming up with real damage today and duck by saying it is a future problem when really, there is no problem at all. This deceit is reprehensible science commentary.

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        TdeF

        Actually slightly less alkali would also be true. This still does not mean sea water is somehow acid. The world’s oceans are alkali.

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        Robert O

        The problem about climate “scientists” is that they have little knowledge of basic chemistry, physics, and biology, and certainly no understanding of biochemistry: most have undertaken less far strenuous academic pursuits. Terms like “carbon pollution” is an inane concept, but promulgated by these experts. As to complex chemistry such as the Krebs cycle, forget about it, but pretty critical to life, and carbon dioxide has a lot to do with it.

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    Graeme No.3

    For those who had more money than sense, e.g. those who thought that wind turbines were a sure fired way to make money, try

    http://notrickszone.com/2015/12/31/catastrophic-turbine-failures-targeted-blackouts-plague-german-power-as-wind-solar-energy-increase/#comments

    This will give you a real reason to worry. Lousy investments spell bankruptcy.

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      Another Ian

      Graeme no 3

      Interesting. Thanks. Sounds like some “known knowns” might be being ignored.

      But as is well known in the simulation fraternity “If in doubt leave it out”

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      • #
        James Murphy

        Structural (and other) geologists prefer the phrase ‘if in doubt, fault it out”.

        It’s amazing what a well placed dashed-line and a couple of question marks can achieve!

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    pat

    because we’ve been told the next major IPCC report will be strong on the social sciences, am posting the following lengthy piece:

    30 Dec: NY Mag: Jesse Singal: Why Some of the Worst Attacks on Social Science Have Come From Liberals
    I first read Galileo’s Middle Finger: Heretics, Activists, and the Search for Justice in Science when I was home for Thanksgiving, and I often left it lying around the house when I was doing other stuff. At one point, my dad picked it up off a table and started reading the back-jacket copy. “That’s an amazing book so far,” I said. “It’s about the politicization of science.” “Oh,” my dad responded. “You mean like Republicans and climate change?”…
    No, it isn’t about climate change, but my dad could be excused for thinking any book about the politicization of science must be about conservatives. Many liberals, after all, have convinced themselves that it’s conservatives who attack science in the name of politics, while they would never do such a thing…
    In a sense, my dad was right in what he was getting at — conservatives have done a lot of damage to sound science in the United States. It’s conservative lawmakers and organizations who have refused to acknowledge anthropogenic climate change, who have rallied to keep evolution out of textbooks and comprehensive sex education out of classrooms, who have stymied life-saving research into stem cells and gun control.
    But that’s in the world of politics and lawmaking, where conservatives often have a numerical advantage. In the halls of social-science academia, where liberals do, it’s telling that some of the same sorts of feeding frenzies occur. This should stand as a wake-up call, as a rebuke to the smugness that sometimes infects progressive beliefs about who “respects” science more…
    http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/12/when-liberals-attack-social-science.html

    the comments tell a tale worth reading, but I particularly noted this one:

    dckubler
    @Chris403 Hypocrisy by the author “If activists — any activists, regardless of their political orientation or the rightness of their cause — get to decide by fiat what is and isn’t an acceptable interpretation of the world, then science is pointless, and we should just throw the whole damn thing out.”
    Jesse throws out interpretations because he thinks they are made by conservatives, he can’t accept liberals doubting his orthodoxy. He’s so sure of his beliefs that he conflates science, religion, and opinion.
    It seems skeptics of CAGW make Jesse squirm yet he says “We should want researchers to poke around at the edges of respectable beliefs about gender and race and religion and sex and identity and trauma, and other issues that make us squirm.” Why not poke around at the edges of CAGW (and the failed predictions)? Squirming Jesse?
    Where’s the answer to the question – Why Some of the Worst Attacks on Social Science Have Come From Liberals? Attacks on CAGW skeptics are vicious too. The answer in both cases, liberals turn an opinion into a belief that-must-not-be-challenged.

    about the NY Mag author, Jesse Singal:

    My name is Jesse Singal, and I’m a New-York-based journalist. I currently work as a senior editor at New York Magazine’s website, where I will be editing a soon-to-launch blog about the science of human behavior. I’m also the video game columnist for The Boston Globe and a contributing writer at Newsweek/The Daily Beast, and my work has appeared in The New Republic Online, Slate, BloombergBusinessweek.com, Politico, The Washington Monthly, and other outlets. I have a Master’s in Public Affairs from Princeton University’s Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Policy, where I studied inequality in America and how to fix it…
    http://www.jessesingal.com/about-me/

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    pat

    a similar tale, but with a happy ending.

    ABC never updated its coverage of the following:

    11 June: ABC: AFP Nobel laureate Tim Hunt apologises for comments that female scientists ‘can’t take criticism without crying’ and disrupt lab work
    Connie St Louis, a lecturer in science journalism at London’s City University, was in the audience and described the experience as “awful”.
    “After he had finished, there was this deathly silence,” she said…

    21 Dec: Breitbart: Richard Lewis: Sir Tim Hunt Didn’t Leave Britain In Defeat After Feminist Fibs… He Won
    Then a recording of the offending joke emerged. In it, the last sentence of the above transcript is heard to be uttered followed by a round of warm laughter. That’d be the laughter that never happened, according to St. Louis, a lie she repeated in her column in The Guardian.
    Of course, the same media that gave a platform to Hunt’s accusers, notably the BBC and The Guardian, didn’t report the existence of the recording despite it completely exonerating the professor and proving beyond any doubt that the feminists that had conspired against him were brazen liars. It was down to the Murdoch-owned Times of London to report the facts.
    In the hurry to brand Hunt a sexist, many other facts were glossed over…
    It was recently announced that Hunt was reinstated by the Royal Society, a position he was asked to resign from at the height of the furore. His new role at a Japanese university eclipses anything he had at UCL, who admit they regret having to accept his resignation to quell the baying mob.
    (Hunt’s wife, Professor Mary) Collins has also landed a prominent position in Japan as well. For a couple who weathered this terrible storm it is a just reward and it should be reported as such, rather than a testament to the power of lies and the liars who make up stories to collect straight white male scalps.
    The only way this victory could be made more complete would be for St. Louis to be forced to stand down from her position as Director of the MA in Science Journalism at City University, London. (Yes, you read that correctly.) Is such a person an appropriate choice to teach students journalistic ethics? Now there’s a social media storm we could all get behind…
    He (Hunt) will still work in the academic field he has dedicated his life to. He will still work with EMBO and the Royal Society from Japan. And he will be afforded the opportunity to travel the world and inspire young scientists, just as he always has.
    The only reputation that has been damaged in this affair is Connie St. Louis’s. Her name will now be forever synonymous with disreputable, dishonest allegations and sexed-up CVs. That’s what I call social justice.
    http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2015/12/21/sir-tim-hunt-didnt-leave-britain-in-defeat-after-feminist-fibs-he-won/

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    pat

    it is perhaps fitting that Sir Tim’s happy ending came after Paul Nurse, who shared the Nobel Prize with Sir Tim in 2001, ended his term as President of the Royal Society:

    12 July: UK Telegraph: Sarah Knapton: Sir Paul Nurse: I got hate mail after Sir Tim Hunt resignation
    The Royal Society president believes that Sir Tim Hunt was right to step down over his ‘trouble with girls’ speech
    “Some have threatened to do things to my body parts,” says Sir Paul, in a weary tone…
    However the furore shows no signs of diminishing, mainly because so many eminent scientists have now backed Sir Tim.
    Since his resignations from both the Royal Society and University College London at least eight Nobel laureates and 21 honorary fellows come out in support claiming he was sacrificed on the altar of political correctness.
    Even London Mayor Boris Johnson said the decisions had been an “overreaction” and it was not wrong to point out “gender differences”…
    (Paul Nurse) But I think it is right that Sir Tim resigned.
    “He did a really stupid thing and then went on the Today programme and made the whole thing worse. I don’t hold with people who say it has shone a light on the issue. It would have been better if it hadn’t happened. It hasn’t been good for science or the Royal Society.” …
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/11729737/Sir-Paul-Nurse-I-got-hate-mail-after-Sir-Tim-Hunt-resignation.html

    what a creep.

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    sophocles

    Got PTSD?

    Then stop reading all the IPCC AR5 WG 1 dogma; their Brother’s Grimm Fairy Tales. All those bad things and catastrophic dogmas are enough to give anyone PTSD.

    The cure is to take a copy of AR5 WG 2 dogma; their Hans Christian Anderson Fairty Tales to bed for a much more cheerful read. According to that, Climate Change just barely features in impact on Daily Life.

    `… to the funny farm where life is beautiful all the time …

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      bobl

      Perhaps burning a copy of AR5, converting much of it to CO2 might relieve stress.

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      Manfred

      Thank God TV’s etc… still come with ‘off’ knobs.
      One surely has little sympathy for those that insist on banging their heads against the wall and complaining that they have a headache?

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    pat

    Manfred -
    I had to quickly return to the T20 cricket when I switched on Keiser Report tonight to hear Stacey Herbert say:

    paraphrasing: China has a plan to go completely renewable by 2030 because they want to be post-carbon because their own studies show the Himalayas are melting rapidly which will destruct their own economy and their temperatures have already risen by 1 degree celcius.

    how on earth can she say that and not be challenged by Max? the article being discussed was a fanciful one I’ve posted previously, which says no such thing:

    16 Dec: UK Telegraph: Ambrose Evans-Pritchard: Even if the global warming scare were a hoax, we would still need it
    China is the low-carbon superpower and will be the ultimate enforcer of the COP21 climate deal in Paris
    Yet peak coal is in sight and it is a fair bet that the country will achieve peak CO2 emissions long before the target date of 2030…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/12052582/Even-if-the-global-warming-scare-were-a-hoax-we-would-still-need-it.html

    listen from about 4mins in – Stacey begins with vehicle fuel efficiency:

    1 Jan: Keiser Report Episode 857
    In this final special, “Winter, Why Not?” episode of the Keiser Report, Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert conclude with their thoughts on the 2015 that was and the 2016 that is: from increasing productivity, declining wages and decreasing fuel efficiency, rising alternative energy superpower…
    https://www.rt.com/shows/keiser-report/327621-episode-max-keiser-857/

    Ambrose-Pritchard may now have read in China Daily (link at comment #55 of jo’s “Paris was an enviro-fail” thread) that China has suspended wind & solar because it’s not easy to integrate into the conventional power grid:

    exerpt from China Daily: The problem with new-energy consumption is that it’s not easy to integrate it into the conventional power grid.
    For that reason, a lot of wind and solar energy capacity has been suspended.

    it’s a tragedy that the MSM is so ill-informed on all matters CAGW.

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    2 scenarios:
    1] 200 Million Americans suffering psychological condition caused by ‘climate change’.
    … versus …
    2] 350+ Million Americans suffering psychological (and poverty) condition caused by Alarmist fueled government policy that shut down their entire economy when it most needed a real industrial stimulus.

    Scenario 1 can be maintained also whilst scenario 2 plays out, because no government policy would affect climate change anyways.

    Even if the first scenario was true, the second scenario would be more devastating.

    The first scenario would also be a solely psychosomatic condition caused by U.A.M.H.A.D (Unjustified Acute Mass Hysteria Alarmist Disorder) … similar to U.P.B.E.P (Unjustified Polar Bear Extinction Phobia).

    Jo, you need to add a Ridiculous Meter to your website – like a national debt counter – so that we can monitor the launch progress of human sanity into the stratosphere towards a weird planet, far, far, away.

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    TdeF

    It is interesting how the promoters of man made Global Warming have moved away entirely from Global Warming, if only because it is clearly not happening. Remember AGW? Now it is all about man made Climate Change, which is extremely hard to define on a short time scale or to separate from such steady changes which have always occurred.

    Interestingly, no one bothers to define nebulous Climate Change nor bother to connect it to CO2. How does evil polluting CO2 change the climate if it cannot even change the temperature? This is obviously a sacred mystery not to be questioned. So we have left any pretence of Global Warming to worry about the world of true believers who will suffer terribly when the rapture Climate Change does not happen? They will be shattered by the good news that the world is not going to end. This would all be highly amusing except governments around the world are terribly concerned about these nut jobs loonies swinging voters.

    Why a coalition government elected in a landslide should chase Climate Change votes is inexplicable, unless it is down the ambition of one man who wanted his position back and found an innovative way to become PM without being elected. So will both sides of politics push an ETS at the election this year? Why? No one even knows what Climate Change is and no one can explain why we should pay a tax on living?

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      Manfred

      TdeF, I have recurrently posted the UN definition of ‘Climate Change’, installed around 2000/2001, when the GW pause had started and those smart cats at the UN thought they’d segue seamlessly into CC as GW failed to oblige their pressing ideological need.
      What I find ironic is the obvious, that the UN definition of climate change rests a priori on anthropogenic influence, whether atmospheric composition or land usage.

      Reductio ad absurdum
      , the only way to truly ‘solve’ ‘climate change’ is to employ ‘The Final Solution’, namely the complete eradication of Homo sapiens from Earth.

      Why no one appears to or wishes to understand this is beyond me.

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    Alice Thermopolis

    Once upon a time they blamed everything on the Bossa Nova.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaRlW-jz1QQ

    Now they blame it on “climate change” – or the other Nova.

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    Rod McLaughlin

    “Pansies”

    One of the things I love about Australia is it’s a museum of archaic English.

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    Ceetee

    It’s not archaic. Just because everyone else got bored just communicating and had too go off on a tangent….
    On the article, I get stressed watching talking heads on television script reading BS about climate change and the thought of all those people who would never question their wisdom. I get anxious when I think of the world my daughters have to live in. Violent? never.

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