JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks

The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper


Advertising

micropace


GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



Archives

ABC is not a state broadcaster, it’s “independent” says new boss Ms Guthrie. O’Really?

ABC, Public Broadcaster, news, media, alternate logo, AustraliaFor the incoming ABC boss, the first priority is to keep up the pretense that the public broadcaster is “independent”.

Independent of what, you may ask? It’s independent of public accountability. We can’t vote for programs or presenters; we can’t choose not to pay for it. We can’t choose to sell it, or even to send our tax funds to a different broadcaster.

The organization that depends on big-government for funds wants you to believe it’s in-dependent of big-gov.

When BP sponsors art, it’s an outrageous reputational risk (stage a sit in!). In that case the offensive BP donations to Tate were a mere one fortieth of the membership income. When Big-Gov provides almost all the income for the national broadcaster we’re supposed to laud it’s independence?

SMH: ABC boss defends independence of public broadcaster

Ms Guthrie was officially announced on Monday morning as the replacement for outgoing managing director Mr Scott. She will begin the role in May after a month-long handover period with Mr Scott.

In an interview with ABC 24 she said the essence of the ABC as an institution was its independence.

Watch Guthrie turn truth upside down:

“The important thing for me around the ABC is that sense of being an independent public broadcaster rather than a state broadcaster and I think that’s an important distinction.”

More than any other priority Guthrie and the ABC need the public to believe it is not an advertising agency for big-government and all the co-dependent bureaucrats, businesses, and lobby groups that also feed off the public teat. The ABC loses much of its goodwill and “advertising” value if viewers recognize it for the one billion dollar partisan political lobby group that it seems to have become. It’s not that the reporters are biased, they just call it as they see it. (But reporters who see it another way are not employed by the ABC.)

Dear Ms Guthrie, we’ll believe the ABC is independent when they say “No thanks” to government funding, and rely on voluntary direct payments from Australian citizens.

If the ABC is so popular, so trusted, and so wanted, then there’ll be no problem raising that billion bucks, right? Let’s make paying for the ABC optional on our tax returns: tick-a-box, or cross it off.

As I wrote five years ago:

The real problem won’t be solved until the funding issue is.

How could we expect the ABC to do anything other than softly pander to government tastes when the government is the gatekeeper for public money and both institutions live off public largess?

In the end could anyone imagine a publicly funded broadcaster, which is paid by the government, being biased in favour of a small government?

ADDENDUM: Over at Quadrant yesterday, Tony Thomas sums up the current state of ABC-ness. He describes how ABC celebrity Kerry O’Brien keeps busy reading 200 words of autocue each week for an “undisclosed” sum. O’Brien’s gems of wisdom pretty much amount to guessing what Paul Keating would have done if he was still PM… (Remember the fuss when the lavish salaries of ABC “Stars” was exposed. It was so ghastly, the ABC burned through taxpayer money to hide how it uses taxpayer money.

I’ve written a lot about their ABC:

Back in 2012 the ABC flew a crew across the country to interview us, and then edited out 99.7% of everything I said, and edited David Evans so heavily that he “said” a sentence he never spoke.

Here are some of the others:

Three times as many Australians think the ABC has a pro-Labor bias

More Australians switched off ABC politically correct propaganda in 2014

Big-government propaganda: ABC, BBC are “Aggressive political participants”. Sell or Split?

ABC – Agitprop for the Bureaucratic Class

ABC admits it’s a propaganda arm of the government

There is no saving the ABC — We want 60% of our billion back

The ABC — protecting big government from awkward questions

ABC got it wrong, BOM not concerned with Australian public being misinformed

Robyn Williams shreds the tenets of science

Catalyst – raising public awareness of science, or promoting big-government science instead?

Climate change sceptics versus the scientists (correcting ABC mistakes, strawmen, and misleading lines)

97 percent of Australian renewables investment dries up without subsidies (so the ABC gives free adverts to the industry)

Fact Checking the ABC — the Big-Myth about the “World’s Scientists”

This is not journalism, Wendy Carlisle

Maurice Newman fights back: No slur is too vicious for Robyn Williams and the ABC

Sabra Lane, ABC 7:30 Report, was that an interview or an advert?

 

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.1/10 (93 votes cast)
ABC is not a state broadcaster, it's "independent" says new boss Ms Guthrie. O'Really?, 9.1 out of 10 based on 93 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/oljuwqd

285 comments to ABC is not a state broadcaster, it’s “independent” says new boss Ms Guthrie. O’Really?

  • #
    The Backslider

    C’mon Jo…. this is our Auntie you are talking about (whoever thought of that moniker was a true genius in public psychology).

    141

    • #
      Winston

      Auntie…..

      Big Brother……..

      Uncle Sam……

      What is it with relatives?

      130

      • #

        At least no one is sledging sisters

        52

        • #
          Andrew McRae

          Not in Australia, but in the USA there’s one.

          10

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            When I heard Bush call for a new Department of Homeland Security I shuddered. My gut and my head yelled, “NO!” Just make what we already have work. The FBI, and various intelligence agencies were acting as if they worked for rival, if not enemy nations. The evidence is fairly clear that if everyone had been talking to everyone we could have knows about the full plot in time to thwart it.

            But no. As usual the left hand didn’t know what the right hand was doing. And it’s still that way.

            The idea of a DHS must have sounded so good to so many in government. But what it brought us was another agency that could be easily corrupted by every imaginable force, political and personal, just like any other government agency.

            Now, to keep some balance here, I have trouble figuring out what’s really true about DHS and what’s not. In fact I have that problem about a lot of what gets passed around purporting to be factual. But I don’t for one minute doubt that DHS can be easily enough corrupted. I just don’t know what, of all the stuff I hear about, is the truth.

            20

      • #
        Bulldust

        There’s a generation or two in China for whom those words have no meaning … aunt, uncle, brother, sister, cousin… Really weird to think about.

        40

        • #
          The Backslider

          One thing that shocked me when I came to Finland was to learn that under Finnish law once a person turns 18 their parents are no longer regarded as family. This makes it very difficult for migrants who wish to have family join them.

          Australia has “family reunion” laws to make life much easier.

          30

          • #

            You’d be surprised to hear that a similar situation exists in BC Canada, our son has a mental health issue and because of this he has to deal with various government agencies which is very difficult for him but we are not allowed to help him fight his way through the red tape because he is considered an “Adult”. Thanks to a few humans left in the bureaucracy we have managed but we have been turned back on numerous occasions by the system.( he was homeless without us knowing about that until friends warned us and we stepped in) But wait look here, plane loads of people are coming into our country, get all the help they need and our own citizens are homeless! ( ANGRY!).

            30

          • #
            The Backslider

            We are currently working on having my mother in law, who is a registered nurse, remain with us as I battle pancreatic cancer. She has been with us since 2006, which is the culture in Perú where my wife is from and her assistance to our family now is invaluable. I really don’t know what we will do if she has to leave. We can make no appeal on family grounds, which totally sucks!

            00

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    “ABC is not a state broadcaster, it’s “independent”,” says new boss Ms Guthrie.

    “O’Really?” asks Joanne Nova.

    I’m not in Australia so maybe I’m not qualified to make too strong a statement. But it didn’t take very long once I started reading this blog for me to realize that ABC isn’t exactly innocent of pushing a one sided narrative of things. You can simply smell the ridiculous odor of Ms. Guthire’s contention of independence.

    Of course, there’s the real possibility that the ABC is independent of something, maybe lunar eclipses or nighttime temperatures on Mars? ;-)

    442

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      There’s another thing I’ve slowly realized over he years since Obama was first elected. He surrounds himself with cabinet heads and other officials with like beliefs and then when he says something offhand, he knows they will implement it without his having to give any instruction that would lead back to the White House. So maybe you ought to consider this as a possibility in the ABC case. Suppose they simply are staffed with true believes who will follow the party line without needing any direct connection back to Canberra. Wouldn’t that seem to the ABC like being independent? I don’t know for sure but clearly it’s a workable system for Obama.

      I would like to know how ABC governs itself and who actually does the hiring and firing, especially of the top people of which Ms. Guthrie is a critical example. Any enlightenment would be appreciated.

      141

      • #
        Yonniestone

        A bureaucracy takes on a life of it’s own, including the ability to create life in it’s own image, a type of inbreeding if you will. ;)

        260

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Probably that inbreeding as you put it is the reason why a bureaucracy always fails at some point. They get stuck in a rut and can’t get out.

          What every bureaucracy needs is someone with the authority to stand up and yell BS when it’s BS. And that’s the one thing a bureaucracy is afraid of more than anything else.

          I read that in a management book already many years ago and it still looks like good advice today.

          210

          • #
            Greg Cavanagh

            The trouble with bureaucracy is they are too powerful, at least in their own minds. They don’t ask advice, they don’t take advice, they believe in their own awesomeness. So when the wheels start falling off and workers start to leave, they are at a complete loss as to what is wrong and what to do about it. Did I mention they never ask?

            90

        • #
          Brian H

          its own

          Roy – yeah, a one-man Red team!

          50

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Back in 2012 the ABC flew a crew across the country to interview us, and then edited out 99.7% of everything I said, and edited David Evans so heavily that he “said” a sentence he never spoke.

      They will claim that was simply journalistic necessity to reduce the amount of time required to air the interview to fit the available time. Isn’t it wonderful to have such power to put words into other people’s mouths and have a good justification for doing it?

      I wish I could make people say what I want them to say instead of what they want to say. I could cause all sorts of havoc. I could be a virtual wrecking ball smashing my way through Washington DC like a bull running amok in a china shop. Maybe I might even straighten out a small part of that den of [put your description here — whatever you say will probably fit].

      Alas, my only problem is that I’ve been a little too honest all my life to engage in that sort of thing. Nuts!

      341

      • #
        Dennis

        Decades ago I observed an ABC presenter (This Day Tonight that was before 7.30 Report) interview a cabinet minister, the interview took place at a private home. The presenter asked several times for permission to ask questions a second time. That evening the taped programme was broadcast on ABC TV. Unbelievable, the tape had been cut and spliced and the answers to questions were nothing like the answers given to each question.

        The Minister was rightly furious. And he phoned the presenter to say so. No apology was forthcoming, just an attempt at Yes Minister. The Minister told him that he would never again give a pre-recorded interview.

        It was my first insight, never trust journalists.

        300

        • #
          Bulldust

          You’d think there’d be laws against wilfully misrepresenting recordings like that.

          Another point I’d like to make … when people or organisations go out of their way to state they are independent they invariable aren’t. Heck, The Australia Institute claims they are an independent think tank, when they are simply a front for Green political ideology.

          It works similarly for subjects with the word “science” appended, like political science, computer science, social science. Invariably they are weak on the “science” part they claim. Equally I noticed in the civil service when you ask anyone whether they are busy the slackers invariably reply they are very busy, while real workers (rare breed, I know) say they could squeeze in something more.

          Any person or organisation which goes out of their way to tell you how or what they are is invariably trying to create a perception, which most of the time is far from the truth.

          140

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            Bulldust,

            I have to suspect that no organization is completely independent. Even Fox News, which I consider to be fairly reliable, must depend on what it’s top man, Roger Ailes, tells the organization to cover and not cover. And he has a boss above him. So they must be considered to have whatever bias Roger Ailes has, if not also his boss’ biases. But from long time viewing of Fox I think it’s pretty evident that Ailes, though quite conservative, is committed to reporting truthfully, at least more so than anyone else I could name.

            Would laws prevent wilfully misrepresenting the content of an interview? Probably not, certainly no more than laws against gun possession prevent possession of guns, just for example.

            So in the end everything boils down to honesty. And who do you know who is completely honest? Diogenes is still looking. :-(

            10

            • #
              Bulldust

              Why not clip words together from different sentences to portray a complete untruth? Why not dub over saying lies? Clearly misrepresentative editing is the first step into the murky realm of lies.

              Quite simply, if they are not willing to show a response to a specific question in context then it should be illegal to show it at all. There is no “partial truth” or “selective truth.” Hence whole truth, nothing but etc.

              But that ship sailed a long time in the western media with gotcha politics. I haven’t watched the news for months. I read it for work, but mostly for relevant articles. If I do find interest in a stopry I will balance the coverage by reading SMH/AGE/ABC oin the one hand an The Oz on the other. Somewhere inbetween the truth lies.

              Of the think tanks out there GRattan seems about as neutral as they get. They tend to be quite objective on economic policy and I respect that. It’s the way it should be.

              10

              • #
                Roy Hogue

                I didn’t say we shouldn’t have such laws. But wait a minute. Laws against murder have never stopped murders. So we know the law is maybe more useful in dealing with the problem after it happens than in preventing it ???

                Of course, laws do deter some, so maybe we should just smile accept that benefit. The trouble is, we have no way of knowing how many people were stopped from doing something just because it was illegal. They don’t check in with a pollster every time they don’t do something just because it’s illegal.

                The way I see it, those who’re honest were taught their honesty from childhood and have stuck with it because basically it works and they found out that it works as they were growing up. That was certainly the way it went for me. It works in personal relationships. It works in business relationships. And it works in on the job relationships.

                The worst of the dishonest media is a sinking ship financially and were it not for a big infusion of money (I suspect from a Soros related source) MSNBC would be gone by now. CNN has also had to clean up its act because of sinking ratings.

                00

    • #
      bobl

      The ABC ignores the fact that the night time temperatures on Mars are going through the same global warming cycle as earth, so yes, the ABC is independent of the science on martiam night temperatures. (Though I’d choose the word ignorant instead)

      161

    • #
      Andrew McRae

      Jo says:

      Independent of what, you may ask?

      You know how these people think. They think all corporations are inherently evil. They think this follows automatically from corporations being self-interested, though they seem to neglect the fact that corporations need to deliver things of value in order to get their income, meaning they have to benefit the society they sell to.

      When they say “independent” they mean independent of private profit-seeking companies, untainted by advertising pressure.
      They see this as a virtue but this is not necessarily true on all topics, as we have seen.

      71

      • #

        The Australian Government is the largest vested interest in Australia. It’s a quarter of our entire GDP…

        Which fossil fuel company has two media outlets, hundreds of radio stations, thousands of web pages, and a direct line to most bank accounts.

        203

        • #
          bobl

          The Saudis maybe?

          30

        • #

          What if media companies and oil companies shared board members. Now that would be a scandal.

          21

          • #
            RB

            Why?

            Haven’t the oil companies diversified so they make money either way?

            Haven’t the vast majority of journalists swallowed the con?

            Do you really believe that the sceptical articles out number the alarmist articles?

            70

        • #
          Dariusz

          Saudis and Qatar? How is the relevant to Oz situation? You might as well talk about Venezuela and Russia. The difference between oz and these countries is that all them have state funded oil industry. Oz has nothing of that kind and hence irrelevance. I work for the oil industry that is now obliterated through oil/gas weakness. Do I not see their ABC shading their tears for thousands of people loosing their jobs? No. However every time anyone talks about withdrawing renewal industry subsidies or more appropriately called money stolen from the tax payers all hell breaks loose.
          The “good” news for renewables is they becoming even more uneconomic. See South Australia for running down the economy on the renewables.

          JO’s point is taken wholeheartedly and big green thumb from me.

          51

        • #
          Geoffrey Williams

          The ABC has no accountability to anyone!
          In a democratic country like Australia this is slur on our society
          Geoff W Sydney

          01

    • #
      wert

      ‘Independent’ means they have money and they are not controlled by their owners.

      It does NOT mean independent judgement, but responsibility free opportunity to represent one’s opinions. It does not mean balance, but the possibility to define topics of discussion.

      10

  • #
    michael hart

    They also tend to talk a lot about diversity, but not ‘walk a lot’ about it when it comes to diverse political viewpoints that are manifestly common among the voters.

    The BBC, having been somewhat shunned by the UK (mostly English) electorate this year, is now targeting the American elections. Donald Trump is, of course, their current bête noire.

    240

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Guthrie is simply following the autocratic narrative,

    The first rule of bureaucracy, is protect the bureaucracy.

    Ronald Regan.

    320

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Yoni, I had forgotten that he said that. He was certainly right about it too.

      100

    • #

      Protecting the bureaucracy is also job number one at the IPCC who became the arbiter of what is and what is not climate science by what they publish in their reports providing intrinsic self sustainability for themselves at the expense of the scientific truth.

      171

  • #
    handjive

    ABC 24 News Bulletin video promo, Tuesday, 22 Dec, 2015, 8.30 am:

    Turnbull Federal Government gives free light to Abbott Point Coal Mine Expansion

    The vision provided with the ‘headline’ for promo showed a flyover of the mine, then cut to enviro minister Greg Hunt on stage receiving a little white box with a red bow on top, then quickly cut back to the flyover of the mine.

    The implication was obvious.

    I am not defending Greg Hunt, a genuine spineless, gullible numpty of Doomsday Global Warming. but, the ABC is out of control.

    When you lie down with dogs, not only do you get fleas, but the random nip in the butt to keep you on message.

    301

  • #
    Manfred

    The UN ensures ‘civil society‘ remains on-message, programme reinforced and ‘informed’ through MSM outlets like public broadcasting service and State broadcasting (ABC, BBC, CBC). These are one of the few ‘unifying’ platforms remaining in what the UN views as a fragmenting society of disparate, conflicted views. How else can they reach the kontrol knob?

    One does resent having to pay for one’s own shackles though.

    170

    • #
      Dennis

      One and a quarter new public teaching hospitals equivalent cost per year, the ABC.

      120

      • #
        Manfred

        The near perfect societal Green parasite then?
        Reduce health care and bear down on the population number while increasing propaganda.
        Also has the desirable and unintended effect of expanding the fraction of individuals in the population who can afford their frappé fueled eco-globalist pedestal.

        50

    • #

      The ABC is certainly doing it’s bit for the UN’s version of civil society via it’s saturation coverage of Australia’s TV and radio outlets.
      For example in Victoria their ABC has a whopping: TV 14, Digital TV 81 and Radio 79 outlets.
      From Alexander to Bendigo and from Horsham all the way through to Yea their ABC spouts it’s political propaganda virtually unchallenged, with many news and current affairs programmes rebroadcast by local stations.
      With their ABC’s continuing expansion into the internet requiring a savvy manager we get Ms. Guthrie ex Google. The education of kids will be high on her agenda with increasing ABC apps for IPads, IPhones and Androids helping to mold their young minds which a prime objective of the UN and their ABC.
      Apps like Kids I View, Kids Play, Play School Art Maker and Play Time, QED Education, Angry Boys, Bananas in Pyjamas Beach and Say Cheese, not to mention 19 ABC radio stations for kids.
      But don’t expect any change in news and current affairs because these are well under control by the current “management”.

      50

  • #
    Ross

    I am not a wordsmith but I do not see the distinction Ms Guthrie talks about here

    “The important thing for me around the ABC is that sense of being an independent public broadcaster rather than a state broadcaster and I think that’s an important distinction.”

    Is she saying that the state paying (as in, from public taxes) for running the ABC means it is independent of the state ? As you can see I have twisted myself in knots in one sentence trying to understand her logic.

    140

    • #
      bobl

      No, the ABC is supposed to be independent of vested commercial interests, by being publicly funded. However that must assume that the government funder does not have any vested interests! The problem is that’s not true. However that’s not the problem the ABC has. The ABC is dominated by socialist/communist thinkers, who deliberately (by their culture) exclude or convert unlike thinkers likely through politically correct moralising. This has created a vacuum of conservative talent and created a corporate group-think.

      It’s a special case of intolerance, discrimination based on ideology. CSIRO has also been overtaken by this ideology, primarilly due to the CAGW myth. Good scientists at CSIRO have resigned over scientific integrity disputes with the ideologically aligned management creating the same vacuum, so now the CSIRO only has earth scientists that can ignore the integrity issues of CAGW left which lands them in the same group-think puddle as the ABC. The problem then becomes how to fix it, because fixing it requires that you discrimitate against the ideology, and despite setting up the ideological cess pool by discriminating, listen to them squeal and squirm if you dare to discriminate against them…. denier!

      Look what happened when Lomborg wanted to set up a research centre? This is how ideologically corrupt the research sector has become.

      231

      • #

        Look what happened when Lomborg wanted to set up a research centre? This is how ideologically corrupt the research sector has become.

        I think that’s a reflection on our universities, not the overall research sector.

        141

  • #
    redress

    Back in the dim, dark, ancient past, around 1971 to 1973, I worked for the ABC. Not as a reporter, but on the production side in the Melbourne studios at Ripponlea.

    This was period in which Ken Myer took over as MD…..in my opinion, it has been all down hill from that time…so much of what he introduced can be seen in todays ABC group think.

    170

  • #

    The ABC became a self-serving monster a long time ago; to change it would take the equivalence of the American War of Independence, for an ABC for all to emerge.

    120

    • #
      Martin

      Beg to differ. What it would take is a government with guts.

      Short term hostility from overpaid ABC journalists would be outweighed
      by long term benefit and appreciation by a wide cross section of the public
      (who have turned the ABC OFF).

      150

  • #
    Dennis

    Why not substitute “independent” with almost unaccountable to taxpayers?

    Ms Guthrie referred to the ABC Charter which sets out the expectations that the founders had for a public broadcaster that was bi-partisan, unbiased, presenting real news factually. And established at a time when the public had a poor choice or no choice of radio entertainment and news. Clearly in 2015 this is way out of date and needs to me modernised to take into account the wide range of private sector broadcasters and internet choices. And for the ABC and SBS to be merged and downsized.

    She did not as far as I am aware mention the ABC Act of Parliament which effectively stops the government of the day and therefore the minister for communications from interfering in ABC operations. The Managing Director is appointed by the ABC Board of Directors who are appointed by the Commonwealth Government. However, the Directors cannot easily be removed until they have served their time. Labor governments have become very skilful at stacking ABC boards with partisan political directors who behave like Labor media management team leaders.

    Unfortunately the present PM, sometimes referred to as the WWW, is beholden to the ABC, they promoted him and spread his spin aimed at the former leader he was so desperate to undermine. He did that for years, in opposition and in government. Despite his lecture to the Labor Party in Parliament when they dumped PM Kevin Rudd in his first term after defeating the Howard Coalition in 2007 that to dump a first term leader was the wrong thing to do.

    I am concerned that the new ABC MD was carefully chosen, a perfect fit for the left leaning mould that ABC employees fit into.

    140

    • #
      el gordo

      Ms Guthrie did a long stint with News, so it seems most unlikely that the SBS model of advertising will happen on her watch, Rupert doesn’t need the competition right now.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Guthrie

      The ABC is fine, all that’s required is a shakeup within the newsroom.

      310

      • #
        TdeF

        Why have 1,000 full time superannuated government salaried, often celebrity journalists? Why should Mark Scott earn more than the PM?
        Why even have an SBS, an irrelevant ‘multicultural’ invention of the 1970s? It cannot begin to match the language and cultural available on the internet.

        Are these people some protected species? Why? As Peter Costello wrote yesterday, it just grow’d like Topsy and is the most outrageous example of unaccountable government spending. The only possible justification was that the ABC was scrupulously unbiased factual reporting and that has become an absurdity, openly defying their charter. Governments are being pushed around by the huge ABC much more than by any group.

        We just don’t need either the ABC or SBS and many people do not want to pay for it, regardless of why it was created a hundred years ago. We do not need state media. Sell them both. If they are worthless, why pay for them? If they are worth billions, take the cash. They could not be any more blatantly biased. That’s fine, except there are laws stopping everyone else from dominating the media and public debate like the ABC. They are out of control and still growing, reaching into every corner of our lives and demanding more and more money. Sell them. Fix the budget.

        270

        • #
          TdeF

          Or we hand over another $1,200,000,000 a year to News Corporation and allow them to expand without restraint. Really, the situation is absurd. No government media! It has reached a size where the government is afraid to touch it and individual MPs are scared, except for Malcolm, who gets exactly what he wants and shows why he wanted to be communications minister, control of the media. Anyone who is a friend of Malcolm (FOM) is rewarded handsomely. Anyone who disagrees is banished, driven from politics or threatened by a direct phone call from the secret police. It is quite unbelievable. Every day another man resigns from the Liberals. Labor and the Greens are loving it, as Malcolm cleans house aided by his ABC.

          170

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘many people do not want to pay for it…’

          Yes but there are a lot more who don’t mind, they have come to rely on it as their favorite source for entertainment and news.

          Let’s be pragmatic, in the years ahead we might need the ABC and SBS to explain global cooling. In the first instance the newsroom must be purged and after that we can decide what to do with entertainment.

          46

          • #
            bobl

            You mean the 15% that bother to watch it. 15% does not a majority make. Frankly the only show I regulalrly watch is Dr Who, and that’s just because I’m an incredicble sci-fi tragic who has watched every sci-fi movie since robby the robot graced the screen in 1956′s Forbidden Planet. (OK I saw the tv versions since I wasn’t around in ’56)

            I’ve even watched metropolis from the ’20s arguably the first ever sci-fi film. It’s available from the internet archive if anyone is interested.

            40

            • #
              bobl

              Awww, mods, I know I spelled regularly wrong but does that really mean I need moderating?

              Merry Christmas mods, thanks for all the hard work, especially AZ who has had enough of me for the year I think, and fly for the wonderful “Fly Spot” you gave me.

              50

          • #
            TdeF

            Let’s be pragmatic. You pay for it. Why should I?

            70

            • #
              TdeF

              If the ABC/SBS was a private company, it would be illegal under our own Federal media laws.

              What the ABC/SBS have in terms of reach and domination of television, radio and now the internet would be illegal under our Media laws because of real concerns about the influence a mammoth media company would have on political opinion and the real danger of a few people pushing their own views and politicians not prepared to act because of the fear of a campaign against them, exactly as happened to Tony Abbott.

              Remember the Australia Day riot organized by Julia Gillard’s people in full cooperation with individuals in the ABC who posed and broadcast the prescripted question which led to the riot. You had a real and admitted conspiracy against Tony Abbott with a real expectation of physical harm. The Sydney Morning Herald even went with the cartoon of Tony punching an aboriginal elder, exactly as planned, except when it went pear shapes thanks to our excellent police and Gillard was forced to rescue Tony because she knew who the target was. Everyone knew what was happening, the closest thing to a public assault we have seen, all organized by our ABC. The ABC had moved past politics into putting people’s lives at risk but no one has been held accountable for the riot and one member of Julia’s staff took the blame and escaped. Then the Leigh Sales interview with ‘joker’ Hockey, insulting to his face because she could and not fear for her job.

              By any standards and under our own laws, the ABC is dangerously big and now dangerous to our liberties by the measures in our own legislation. This is not a joke. Politicians are afraid to speak out. Worse, ASIO is calling politicians directly and telling them what they can say, under direction from the same PM who has handed out private phone numbers, as if ASIO needs them. Why? This is all very worrying and wrong and nothing to do with Peppa Pig.

              140

              • #
                el gordo

                Be patient, its almost a shell of its former self and should be easy to dismantle, but Turnbull could be a problem.

                ‘Fairfax Media has been briefed on the confidential report and can reveal it has estimated the ABC would save a net $70 million by outsourcing all television production to the private sector. On top of $90 million reaped by selling off production facilities, the proposal would save $400,000 each year. Implementation costs would be $20 million.

                ‘There is significant scope for savings by increasing the use of external production studios rather than filming television programs internally, the efficiency review finds.’

                Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/government-review-offers-secret-abc-downsizing-plan-20140623-3aoyo.html#ixzz3v7uEEEQX
                Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

                10

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Why not substitute “independent” with almost unaccountable to taxpayers?

      Now there’s the thing I couldn’t think of above. They certainly act as if independent of those who pay their salaries. If they were a privately owned enterprise that couldn’t be quite such a serious complaint. But when you’re publically owned you should serve your real master, the public of Australia.

      Actually you should always serve your real master whoever it may be. But it’s far worse when your master is the taxpayers and you serve someone else.

      50

  • #
    David S

    I think that the reality is that the ABC is captured by the greens not by the left. The perception that they are anti liberal depends on whose in charge. In fact they actually are a bell weather . When they turn on Turnbull then we know that Turnbull is starting to represent the conservatives of the party as he should. However it is done Greens have infiltrated every aspect of our life whether that is Government , media, education, religion , big business, scientific institutions, weather bureaus, etc. Every major aspect of our life is controlled by individuals with green one world agendas. I sometimes think I’m becoming a one world government conspiracy nut whose participating in a Hollywood story like Kingsman where serrupticiously our freedoms are being removed from us. The infiltration of virtually every office in the world by AGW alarmists such as the pope, president, most other global leaders, Prince Charles, heads of mining and oil companies, heads of major banks, 90% of media., 95 % of professors, 97 % of weather bureaus is very compelling in trying to use every influence to control the global agenda. With that process so overwhelming its a miracle that the revolutionary army of skeptical web sites have been able to slowly turn the tide of opinion of the ignorant masses. The appointment of a green leaning ABC head shouldn’t surprise in these circumstances.

    100

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘…the ABC is captured by the greens not by the left.’

      Agreed, without a doubt they are not leftards, but they are closely aligned with the Green Liberal movement headed by Malcolm.

      91

      • #

        Many greens are red on the inside,
        their green world requires dismantling
        the Industrial Revolution and achieving
        strong central guvuhmint.

        100

        • #
          el gordo

          Few greens are red on the inside, the majority of rank and file live normal lives in blissful ignorance of Marx.

          42

      • #
        john karajas

        Try the term “eco-fascists”.

        On the side of blue-collarr workers “Our ABC” are not.

        60

        • #
          el gordo

          If there are eco-fascists in the ABC newsroom then we’ll need to weed them out. On the other hand it might only be an urban myth, soaked in derision.

          Or EF maybe a splinter group high in the establishment, a clique of powerful producers and directors pushing a green agenda, oblivious of the science which underpins the hypothesis. Not bad people, just brainwashed.

          The eco-fascist should be easy to recognise, he already knows the warmists are losing the argument, but he’ll persist in pushing out the propaganda nevertheless.

          21

  • #
    Jaymez

    The ABC is about as independent as an adult shild in their 30′s who lives at home and has never had a job. If the ABC wants true independence, then they should fund themselves by selling content. If they tried that I think they would be in fo a rude supprise.

    172

  • #
    TdeF

    The ABC can be as free and independent as it likes. They can do the bidding of their new owners, whoever they are. Sell the ABC, as with Telstra, Australia Post, most power utilities, trains, public transport, roads, ports, authorities. Mark Scott is right. We are not North Korea. We do not need overwhelming and politically biased government funded media. Let them compete, charge for advertising, fight for space under the same rules as everyone else. Australia certainly does not need 1,000 publicly funded journalists. It never did.

    Consider we could get $20Bn for ABC/SBS broken up and save $1.3Bn cash a year from the huge and growing deficit. We simply cannot afford the ABC. Why wait? Sell it now. Every cent we pay for the ABC has to be borrowed from overseas. Why? Those who watch it refuse to pay for it. Those who don’t certainly resent having to pay for someone else’s private media.

    180

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      TdeF:

      Sorry, you won’t get much, if anything, from selling the ABC. The buildings are gone already, the equipment is often obsolete (it helps maintain employment) and the costs of getting rid of the redundant would be exorbitant.

      The only answer that I can see is to split it into 2 or more pieces. One piece could have children’s programs, the public service side (weather, fire warnings etc.) and country programs. Encourage that side to generate new programs rather than replaying Antique Roadshow, and Stephen Fry and others from the BBC. A bit of the nature filming could be sold overseas. This section free (and encouraged) to get its news from somewhere else.

      The other bit could be News and Public Affairs – the bit everyone complains about. Let them have 1 or 2 TV channels and less than 50% of the budget and let it slowly wither on the vine. The less people view it, the less money it gets. If “the Friends of the ABC” want to object, just tell them to put their own money in.

      80

      • #
        TdeF

        Australia Post was broken into Telstra and Australia Post and sold. Many of these monoliths are being broken up. The ABC is now going hard into web sites led by a Google executive. Why? Why are we, the public, investing in this? Who decided this? SBS wants income from advertising too. At what point do we say no one needs the SBS any more? It may be worthless.

        What is valuable is the infrastructure and especially the licences, which are worth billions to media operators.
        Yes, it has far too many staff and you will get three ABC full camera teams on a site and one Murdoch reporter with an iPhone. The waste is incredible.

        The argument still stands, if it is worthless, why pay for it. Why are we pouring a $1.2 billion into it every, plus the $100Million gifted by Julia in her last months when everyone else had to cut back. The ABC/SBS monolith is far too big, too fat and it wants more and more money and reach and outlets and people. If it is worth a forture, why are we pouring $1.2Billion into it.

        We in Australia are Broke. We are even paying $1.5Billion a month interest on the existing debt and we are borrowing another $1Billion a week! However our generous PM is giving $1Bn to help people cope with Climate Change. Plus another $400 million. Governments have no business being in the media, at our expense. It is a real threat to our democracy, which will not be a problem until you get a call from ASIO, like our politicians.

        130

      • #
        TdeF

        The buildings are gone already? The $100 million given by Julia around January last year was for a new headquarters. It did not help her keep her job, but you have to please the ABC.

        80

        • #
          Dave

          .

          Should be just closed

          Worth nothing

          Keep an ABC Rural team – eg Landline, Country hour on 1 TV Station & 1 Radio Station

          Sack the rest, close it, completely take off the internet presence

          All the Facebook, Instagram & Twitter accounts

          $1.3 Billion better of EVERY single year

          Better still – GIVE IT free to all the journos, producers workers for ZIP

          It’d close in one week

          71

          • #
            TdeF

            It is worth as much as taxi licences. The old model is dead and the rationale for an ABC/SBS is long gone but the ABC is growing. It has metastasized and now is a threat to our democratic model, once politicians are scared of the power of the ABC and once the ABC feels it should dictate government policy.

            50

            • #
              Dave

              Better still

              Get the 20 highest paid journos
              Jones
              Sales etal
              The board
              MD etc
              Tell them it’s all their own business
              Everything, the cameras, websites, radio stations, production facilities etc
              ALL FREE
              But
              As the new ABC Worker coop – they will be responsible for all outgoings
              Wages
              Consultants
              Leave
              Super
              Child Care
              Parental leave
              Transport
              Air travel
              Accommodation
              Parking
              Domain name fees
              Website fees
              IT charges
              Personnel expenses (dinner, buses etc)
              And if the ABC Worker Coop agrees – Tony Jones can still pocket nearly 1/2 million a year

              Now that would work – these ABC types are very innovative!

              I reckon these smart ABC people could do this and turn it into an empire as Never seen before

              Probably last about 2 and 1/2 weeks at the most.

              Before the police are called

              GO ABC Workers Coop

              It worked for Tim Flannery – the Climate Council -0 how good was that effort!

              Do I need to add a sarc tag?

              100

      • #
        Dariusz

        If they can,t get rid of the bias suggest to split the ABC into theirs and ours, left and right; and let them fight out in the market arena.

        20

  • #
    Brian H

    “laud it’s independence” – wrong
    “was its independence” – right

    30

  • #
    Robert O

    The ABC is an enigma inasmuch as a state-run broadcaster, such as Pravda, it should not have given exposure to the Indonesian phone taps and not highlighted the problems of the cattle trade, which caused serious damage to the cattle industry and our relations with Indonesia. But it did.

    But when it comes to global warming, I remain very skeptical of its position and would like to see some contrary evidence without the usual picture of those cooling stacks of the UK power station against the setting sun.

    If it were to be independent, why not host a panel discussion on global warming, e.g. Q&A, with Drs. Plimer and Carter and Jo who have sufficient knowledge to refute anything that Drs. Flannery and Karoly may say? Perhaps it may occur one day if one believes in porcine aviation, but this would be a good demonstration of Ms. Gutherie’s calibre, wouldn’t it?

    140

    • #
      john karajas

      Porcine aviaion is right!

      20

    • #
      TdeF

      It should not have built a free public web site to keep people smugglers up to date on boat arrival numbers, dates, places. This was near treason given the military operation to protect our borders and starve people smugglers of information.

      70

  • #
    Rob JM

    The ABC do not have a Labor bias, they are total watermelons! Apparently 70% of their journalist are greens voters. Obviously that makes them more anti liberal than anti labor!
    That being said I love landline and Triple J, Can we keep them.

    94

    • #
      TdeF

      The ABC are anti Liberal, anti economic restraint, anti coal, anti farmer, anti Royal, anti British and anti Christian and extremely anti Catholic and anti clergy and George Pell and Tony Abbott and all this on fabulous salaries with job security and a country to lecture as they please without any restraint and back politicians they like, all funded by us and they want more and advertising, internet domination, gay marriage, the return of the boat invasion and Sharia law? Where is the balance? We can watch TV from around the world for free. Why are we paying for this massive media domination which would be illegal from any other group? Where is the twelve hundred million dollars going? Why?

      151

      • #
        Annie

        TdeF, thank you for speaking for me and others who are deeply upset, not to mention taken aback by the ABC’s apparent freedom to undermine Australia. The ABC is at least as bad as the BBC which I have despised for years now; ever since an incident in Northern Ireland where they set up a riot in order to record some “news”. Happily, the team was arrested by the Army although I’m not sure that the general public ever heard about it and what consequences they suffered as a result. I learnt then that the BBC was traitorous to Britain and this was back during “The troubles”.

        100

    • #
      TdeF

      As for landline and children’s program like Peppa Pig, these are the first to be threatened if anyone touches the ABC budget, a form of blatant extortion. The absurdity is that Peppa Pig is a BBC production, like so many. This is not a return on our money, just a near fraudulent tradition where the ABC just shows BBC stuff and charges us all for it.

      30

    • #
      TdeF

      As for landline and children’s program like Peppa Pig, these are the first to be threatened if anyone touches the ABC budget, a form of blatant extortion. The absurdity is that Peppa Pig is a BBC production, like so many. This is not a return on our money, just a near frau*ulent tradition where the ABC just shows BBC stuff and charges us all for it.

      70

      • #
        Annie

        It’s a pity there isn’t a subscription service for really worthwhile programmes; a sort of television version of 3MBS to which I used to subscribe. I don’t now as we can’t get it out here in the sticks, despite being only 2hours from Melbourne.

        Most services offer stuff in which I am not the least bit interested. We are building a collection of DVDs of the better old stuff for when we need to relax for a bit. However, clever and funny as ithey are we should probably avoid “Yes Minister” and “Yes Prime Minister” for the time being!

        30

  • #
    Martin

    Under the current government, the ABC will continue to operate, not objectively to inform the public, but as an instrument of propaganda that often so distorts events as to misinform the public – for the public’s own good, of course.

    Until Australia comes up with an electable alternative to the Coalition,
    the ABC and its overpaid abuse of its charter will remain intact.
    A vote for the Coalition IS a vote for the ABC.

    Voices of reason in the Coalition (notably, the Nationals and minority 44)
    should ponder their survival, considering possible alignment with the ALA.
    If an electable alternative is not formed, the next government
    will be so fragmented as to be incomprehensible.
    (Insurance for the ABC)

    81

  • #

    I don’t watch it. Don’t watch giggly manboy comedians or pouting scolds who can’t question without opinionating or listen without interrupting (“we’re running out of time, Mr Abbott”). Don’t watch clumsily rigged debates or documentaries which make the Green Berets look tame as propaganda. I don’t watch the ABC. I stopped. Listened to the Rugby League till Warren Ryan fell foul of the PC police (remember when they gave him a netballer for sideline commentary?). I didn’t even like Ryan all that much, but you felt you were at a game and that the suburbs ruled, just for those couple of hours.

    As for double standards, don’t get me started on their coverage of Gina Rinehart (totally not one of their own) or their “perplexity” over the “complex” Peter Roebuck (totally one of their own).

    Sell Big Smug.

    182

  • #
    TedM

    Therefore, the state would be totally justified in withdrawing all funding.

    What a great Christmas present that would be to the “Australian Taxpayer”.

    Happy Christmas to Jo David and all courteous bloggers on this site.

    A recommended New Years resolution: “stay sceptical”.

    130

  • #
    pat

    abc is independent of inconvenient facts, e.g.

    Science ABC: India’s Cochin Airport: The World’s First ***100% Solar-Powered Airport
    The world is developing at a faster pace than ever before; the scientific and technological development we have seen in the last few decades alone is unprecedented by anything we’ve previously experienced as a species. However, the human thirst for rapid development has come at a significant price to our environment. Climate change and global warming have become some of the most important challenges the world is currently facing. Carbon dioxide emission is one of the major factors responsible for global warming, and the combustion of fossil fuels for our energy needs is the major source of those dangerous emissions. In short, there is an urgent need for a greener and cleaner energy source…
    Turning Solar: Cochin International Airport
    On August 18, Cochin International Airport Limited (CIAL) announced that the airport will run ***completely on solar power, making it the first airport in the world to do so. This will make the airport “absolutely power neutral”- which means that it can create as much energy as it consumes…
    ***CIAL also has plans to sell the surplus energy produced from the plant back to the local electricity utility: Kerala State Electricity Board (KSEB)…
    https://www.scienceabc.com/innovation/indias-cochin-airport-worlds-first-100-percent-solar-powered-airport.html

    only selling to the grid, ABC?

    Cochin International Airport: Kochi airport becomes world’s first to completely operate on solar power
    Hon.Chief Minister Mr.Oommen Chandy inaugurated the 12 MWp solar power plant, on 18th August 2015, comprising of 46,150 solar panels laid across 45 acres near cargo complex. Now, Cochin airport’s solar power plant is producing 50,000 to 60,000 units of electricity per day to be consumed for all its operational functions, which ***technically make the airport ‘ absolutely power neutral ‘…
    This is a ***grid connected system ***without battery storage and a power banking module with the Kerala State electricity board (KSEB) has been worked out; wherein, CIAL gives as much power it produces (in day time) to (the grid of) KSEB and ***’buy’ back the power from them when needed (especially in night)…
    http://cial.aero/Pressroom/newsdetails.aspx?news_id=360

    News Ltd is no better, of course tho, while ignoring the nightly “buy” back, they at least admit they use power from the grid on “really cloudy days”:

    8 Oct: news.com.au: Cochin International Airport is first airport in the world to run on solar panels
    That’s right, an airport completely powered by the sun. Not partly but completely (well, except on ***really cloudy days where it will have to use power from the grid)…

    80

    • #
      James Murphy

      Just as with their cover of the latest penalty rates report, it’s very light on detail, and they are masters of the art of misleading via headlines.

      I’m not sure any but the most extreme Greens would be particularly happy if air traffic control lost power due to cloud cover or a flat battery! I imagine such people would be first to say that the victims of any ensuing accident deserved what they got for polluting the planet via noxious aeroplanes…

      00

  • #

    Free market allocation of tax funding should apply across the board on “government spending”.

    Although it was originally envisaged to fund projects with a completion, this proposal could stretch to other taxpayer-directed spending.

    This policy proposal is for a facility to encourage direct investment by taxpayers in public projects, at their own initiative. The facility is through tax credits for expenditure on a tangible public purpose such as capital works.

    Taxpayers don’t like to pay taxes. They like it even less if they see their taxes spent inefficiently, ineffectively and even counter-productively. Taxpayers are often in the best position to tell where public spending is necessary. Almost always in a better position than those far away, physically and/or in perspective, from what is apparent to the taxpayer.

    Such a concept is of course foreign/abhorrent to big government bureaucrats who know best when it comes to spending other people’s money.

    50

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Taxpayers are often in the best position to tell where public spending is necessary. Almost always in a better position than those far away, physically and/or in perspective, from what is apparent to the taxpayer.

      I hate to be a naysayer but don’t count on that. Sometimes they are and sometimes they’re not. It all boils down to that word, honesty along with good judgment.

      California has an intuitive system built into the state constitution whereby if citizens can collect enough signatures supporting a measure they can place it on the ballot. Furthermore, if the measure passes then the legislature cannot modify it. Californians have wasted more money this way than I know numbers large enough to count. And to be fair, have also done themselves a lot of good this way as well. So the sword cuts swinging both ways.

      20

      • #

        If you click on the link, you’ll find a reference to “plumbing” that establishes spending targets and how contributions could be made.

        Projects which are proposed by one level of government but which cannot proceed for lack of funding by the usual channels may be supported directly by taxpayer initiative, for tax credit, either by provision of funding or materials and services at normal market rates.

        Off the top of my head, the mechanism could be similar to that used for personal contributions to superannuation funds. Each target could be allocated a portfolio number to which people send their money directly; instead of via the taxman.

        00

  • #
    edwina

    Watching her being interviewed on 24 she flapped her arms around so hard and fast I thought she would take off like a bird. Nerves or anxious to get into the job?

    51

    • #
      Annie

      That stupid arm flapping was in epidemic proportions in the UK and the disease has taken hold here. The reporters look so stupid doing it. Stand still and keep your arms down and still I say!

      10

  • #
    manalive

    Incoming ABC boss Michelle Guthrie has defended the national broadcaster’s place as a “true independent public broadcaster”

    “Public” this “public” that, apparently the only non-public aspect of the ABC is the salaries it pays its ‘talent’.

    70

  • #

    Three times as many Australians think the ABC has a pro-Labor bias

    You’re quoting Nick Leys., Miranda. That’s a bit like promoting Putin’s opinion of ISIS.

    More Australians switched off ABC politically correct propaganda in 2014

    More than what, Miranda? That statement has as much credibility as the 80% fat-free label on a packet of biscuits.

    Big-government propaganda: ABC, BBC are “Aggressive political participants”. Sell or Split?

    What rubbish. Again, a statement of opinion. Isn’t that why you criticise the ABC?

    ABC – Agitprop for the Bureaucratic Class

    If you can’t see the irony in this report you have a problematic grasp of reality.

    ABC admits it’s a propaganda arm of the government

    So what was all this about?

    There is no saving the ABC — We want 60% of our billion back

    If you can’t take the heat, Jo, get out of the kitchen.

    The ABC — protecting big government from awkward questions

    “A free media is supposed to be Western Civilizations first line of defence against corruption”

    The ABC does a much better job of exposing corruption than any of the commercials. I remember the Moonlight State, the Jobs Services Australia scandal, the Greyhound racing scandal, the Seven Eleven scandal, the James Hardie mesothelioma scandal, to name a few. The ABC is not trammeled by the financial vested interest of multinational commercial media.

    ABC got it wrong, BOM not concerned with Australian public being misinformed

    Untrue. Both the BOM and the ABC published the accurate data which was available to the Australian public. Unlike some here, the farmers look at the data, not the spin. The interpretation (which is comment) was not completely accurate, and it was corrected.

    Robyn Williams shreds the tenets of science

    Sorry Jo, but I’d put Robyn Williams streets ahead of you when it comes to credibility. He doesn’t make a living out of peddling junk science, for starters.

    Catalyst – raising public awareness of science, or promoting big-government science instead?

    There is only science. As soon as you start talking about “big government science ” you bell the cat that you are a political rather than a scientific operator.

    Climate change sceptics versus the scientists (correcting ABC mistakes, strawmen, and misleading lines)

    A climate change sceptic, by definition, has to be sceptical of fact, history and reality. That’s OK, but the earth’s temperature has increased by 0.8 degrees Celsius over the past century.

    97 percent of Australian renewables investment dries up without subsidies (so the ABC gives free adverts to the industry)

    It seems that despite the subsidies, investment is also drying up in the mining industry.

    Fact Checking the ABC — the Big-Myth about the “World’s Scientists”

    First you write “survey after survey shows” and then you write “they have never been surveyed” when referring to scientists. Both statements cannot be correct.

    This is not journalism, Wendy Carlisle

    “No wonder the public is angry.”

    No Jo, the public is not angry when it comes to the ABC. A few on the fringe Right are, but they’re a very small minority.

    Maurice Newman fights back: No slur is too vicious for Robyn Williams and the ABC

    The problem with Maurice is that he so often gets his facts wrong.

    Sabra Lane, ABC 7:30 Report, was that an interview or an advert?

    Remember writing this, Jo?
    “By now, any sensible green-business should have seen the end looming for years.”
    How’s that working out for you?

    540

    • #
      john karajas

      Wow, somebody has really got under your skin today.

      Here’s my tuppence worth: Robyn Williams is anti-science and biased!

      293

    • #
      James Bradley

      Me still luv you long time, Mr Bobby.

      65

    • #
      redress

      “Unlike some here, the farmers look at the data, not the spin.”

      Bull#^**!!! You obviously dont know many farmers…. nearly all my fellow farmers trust their instincts before the BoM. The BoM is wrong so many times with their weather forecasts its not funny…if they went outside and checked with the ants they would have a better idea.

      213

      • #
        The Backslider

        This was one way I always knew we were in for a heavy rain when I was at Lightning Ridge. The ants would all crowd around the hole tightly to keep out the water.

        10

      • #
        The Backslider

        And mare’s tails in the sky…. two days later it would always rain.

        00

    • #
      James Bradley

      [OK James. snip repeat. - Jo]

      63

    • #
      el gordo

      Newman is correct, global cooling has already begun.

      102

    • #
      bobl

      Surely you jest,

      This is the same Robyn Williams that claimed that the seas would rise 100m so that he’s now known in some circles as 100m Williams. The same Robyn Williams that claimed climate action deniers – those who have decided that one can’t change the climate with taxes are the moral equivalent of “peadophiles and rapists of women”, referring to the 53% of Australians that don’t think climate change is a problem and the 80% who would rather not pay. The only blatantly abusive broadcast I have ever written to ACMA about. Oh yes, so scientific!

      It’s tough 1735099 when you are part of a minority belief, but you are.

      152

    • #
      BruceC

      “Sorry Jo, but I’d put Robyn Williams streets ahead of you when it comes to credibility. He doesn’t make a living out of peddling junk science, for starters.”

      LOL, dopey then supplies a link to SkS and then later to the Guardian.

      182

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘No Jo, the public is not angry when it comes to the ABC.’

      That poll is a decade old, but it probably hasn’t changed much.

      Which is why I advocate culling the newsroom, decisively, yet taking special care to avoid collateral damage.

      42

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘We’re even more cynical about the media than we were 12 months ago. And The Daily Telegraph has extended its “lead” as Australia’s least-trusted major newspaper.

      ‘New polling from Essential Research shows Australia’s most trusted media outlet remains ABC television news and current affairs: 70% of voters have some or a lot of trust in it, including 21% who say they have “a lot of trust”. But that’s down three points from January of this year. SBS television news and current affairs is also trusted, with 65% of voters having some or a lot of trust. ABC radio news and current affairs scored 63% for some or a lot of trust, but that’s down seven points since January.’

      Bernard Keane / Crikey December 2013

      42

    • #
      AndyG55

      Maurice Newman got most of his fact CORRECT.

      The Guardian on the other hand.. doesn’t have a clue.

      82

    • #
      AndyG55

      “Robyn Williams streets ahead of you when it comes to credibility. He doesn’t make a living out of peddling junk science, for starters.”

      roflmao..

      That is EXACTLY what Williams does!

      Pure and utter JUNK science

      And using OUR money.

      Money that could buy you one heap of potatoes to peel !!

      92

    • #
      AndyG55

      And you obviously have NO IDEA what a subsidy is.

      The tax allowances on exploration and fuel excise are absolutely allowable tax returns.

      They are NOT subsidies.

      And guess what.. MINING BRINGS IN MONEY.

      IT EARNS MONEY for Australia.. a LOT of money.

      Renewables only scam money.. they cost and cost… they will never bring any money in.

      They are a massive, unnecessary, useless, wasteful burden on the taxpayer.

      152

    • #
      AndyG55

      Fuel excise rebate is not a subsidy. It’s available to anyone who uses diesel for off-road purposes, as fuel excise is levied to pay for public roads.

      And funding for Geoscience Australia? That is also NOT a subsidy? It’s a scientific research organisation that contributes much to the nation, like groundwater, surveying, etc.

      Once again the ABC unquestioningly regurgitates press releases from vested interest groups that are aligned with its agenda.

      It needs to be bought into line or sold to the highest bidder.. Gina.. where are you ?

      71

      • #
        ROM

        I suspect that “1735099″ has his number tattooed onto his forehead, in green and reversed of course, so that he can stand in front of the mirror each morning and memorise it all over again so he can still remember what he has to quote off that “Green sheet” of standard green quotes when commenting on a blog somewhere.
        —————
        Being allowed to keep your own money is NOT a subsidy.

        Being handed large lumps of “Other Peoples Money” [ OPM ] to keep a [ never likely to be profitable ie; wind turbines ] business afloat IS a subsidy!
        —————
        I can also remember when governments ran the railways until the hard left / communist run railway unions reckoned that they were powerful enough to take on and tell the government how it, the government should be run or else!

        I remember when the government ran an airline until left wing union feather bedding and strikes and other leftard activities made it very unprofitable.

        I remember when governments nominally ran shipyards and steel mills and coal mines and wharves and steverdoring where the hard left and criminal controlled unions came to believe they were immovably entrenched for all time in those industries.

        The ABC should be looking back very hard over its left hand shoulder.
        Its deeply leftist, bigoted and biased past is now starting to gain on it.

        And when that past finally catches up with it, the politicals will just subtly wipe it off the face of the earth until there will be only old timers like myself who will say, “I remember when the ABC, that taxpayer funded and utterly un-accountable media conglomeration called the ABC came to believe it was both totally unaccountable and completely untouchable”.

        And the youngsters will look at the old timers and ask, “The ABC! What the hell was that?”

        122

    • #
      RB

      Three times as many Australians think the ABC has a pro-Labor bias

      The only reasons its not everyone is because the Lefty bastards lie (I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and change that to) think that if its their own view that its not bias.

      More than what, Miranda? That statement has as much credibility as the 80% fat-free label on a packet of biscuits.

      More than in previous years? The 80% fat-free is meaningful if they were usually 50% fat in previous years.

      You didn’t really think that through, did you, Numbers?

      What rubbish. Again, a statement of opinion. Isn’t that why you criticise the ABC?

      Its actually criticism that public money is being used to broadcast and publish what suits the Left’s political agendas with no balance of contrary opinions (as if contrary is a dirty word like sceptic used to be. Shouldn’t it be outing this sort of poor journalism and the misuse of public money that it is becoming renowned for?)

      I’m stopping here. There is no joy in pointing out that your comments are just hot air.

      83

    • #
      TdeF

      What is your problem?

      “Sorry Jo, but I’d put Robyn Williams streets ahead of you when it comes to credibility. He doesn’t make a living out of peddling junk science, for starters.”

      This is just abuse. Thuggery. Bullying. You are not the slightest bit sorry. Jo is a real scientist. So are many. You are what exactly?
      Just crawl back under the rock.

      93

      • #
        TdeF

        I wondered what sort of Honours ‘Science’ degree Robyn Williams had from the University of London to be our leading Science expert, according to the ABC.

        Science degrees can be very misleading, as with Professor Tim Flannery who studied English at Latrobe, not science at all. You get some odd degrees under the Science banner, in the US even Business degrees. So Robyn Williams studied ‘Biology’. What part of Biology does on study physics or meteorology or mathematics or computer modelling or engineering or chemistry? No wonder he (or the unsigned ABC Science expert) challenged my knowledge of radioactive decay of C14, stating that I did not understand it. His knowledge is poor to non existent and fifty years ago. No wonder he said the seas could rise 100 metres in Sydney by 2100. He could not do the calculations if he tried.

        52

        • #
          TdeF

          Oh goodie. A red hand from Santa! At least someone cares about Rudolf the brown nosed reindeer.

          11

        • #
          James Murphy

          I do still try to listen to the Science Show every now and again, but then, at some point, the conversation always turns to “climate change”, and it gets very tiresome. I listen to it for science related stuff, not to be preached at.

          I am not sure when exactly the show started going down hill, but I have heard a lot of interesting things on it over the years, and was (note the past tense) happy that such a programme could exist on a public broadcaster, as it would never see airtime on a commercial network. Yes, the internet has changed the field a bit, with much freer access to a wide variety of information sources, but radio/podcasts still have their place.

          I am in 2 minds about comments regarding Williams’ qualifications. One can be capable of conducting interviews without being an expert in the field (background reading is likely to be sufficient), and anyone can be involved/interested in science/engineering without being trained as one. However, on the negative side, he has a position of authority and respectability with regards to science and science reporting, and it is disgusting that he chooses to abuse such a position by expressing personal opinions and ill-informed/completely erroneous commentary.

          10

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      1735099,

      Batteries and solar are a very long, long way from replacing electricity generated on demand. I think you’re fooling yourself about the possibility and also about the reliability of such a system even if we had it.

      122

      • #
        el gordo

        The battery story is thrown at me all the time so I just tell them the truth, it can’t carry base load and is practically useless.

        70

    • #
      The Backslider

      That’s OK, but the earth’s temperature has increased by 0.8 degrees Celsius over the past century.

      Oh!! Run and hide!! We are all gonna FRY!!!!!

      0.8 degrees huh? And you are aware, are you not, that most of that was prior to 1940 when CO2 really was not a factor at all, are you not? You ARE aware, are you not, that in the early days of the warming scare that essentially all scientists agreed that the warming prior to 1950 was perfectly natural?

      So what are we left with then? My, a WHOPPING 0.3 degrees of warming between 1975 and 1998, supposedly caused by us evil beasts burning fossil fuels. 0.3 degrees…. RUN!!!!

      Does your supposedly scientific mind not find it at all unusual, considering that 30% of the TOTAL of anthropogenic CO2 emissions since THE BEGINNING of The Industrial Revolution have occurred since 1998, that the temperature trend since 1998 has remained FLAT?

      Could you please explain to us all, since we know how keen you are on scientific journals and surely must know (since you DO believe), by exactly what mechanism are the oceans warmed by CO2 (the popular explanation for “the pause”) in the atmosphere? Please come back when you are able to answer that.

      52

    • #
      The Backslider

      Unlike some here, the farmers look at the data, not the spin.

      Quite wrong there sonny. Any farmer worth his salt can go out, look at the sky and tell you “In two days it will rain”. Any farmer worth his salt can tell you, just from what is around him “We are heading for drought”….”This year will flood”… etc., etc.

      You have never lived on the land, so you just do not know. The BOM can tell jack about the weather and no farmer would trust their livelihood on what they have to say.

      62

    • #
      cohenite

      Numbers is a well known leftie and abc apologist. It’s amusing that he links to deposed PM Abbott saying the abc is against his government to prove his point that the abc is independent when in fact it proves the converse point. More precisely the abc is an agency of left-wing/green governments and the implacable foe of conservative governments.

      Numbers will be regaling us about his Vietnam experience next.

      30

  • #
    thingadonta

    A bit like saying the IPCC has no ties to environmental activists…..(pause for laughter).

    243

  • #
    pat

    one of Natasha’s choices for summer repeats – no surprise.
    Natasha obviously doesn’t know Venkatraman Ramakrishnan replaced Paul Nurse as President of the Royal Society in November, as Nurse is wrongly named President in the summary dated today as well as at the end of the interview when Natasha promos her next program:

    AUDIO: (listen from 38mins) 23 Dec: ABC Life Matters: Family secrets and revolutionary science: Nobel Laureate Sir Paul Nurse
    Nobel winning geneticist Sir Paul Nurse is President of the world’s oldest scientific institution The Royal Society…
    This segment was originally broadcast on 2nd April 2015.
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/lifematters/paul-nurse-nobel-laureate/6847430

    rough summary – beware: serially-offensive use of “CLIMATE CHANGE” instead of AGW:

    Natasha asks about the “anti-climate change movement”!

    Nurse says what strikes him about so-called climate science sceptics is they have no scepticism at all about their own ideas. they are committed, almost certainly because of ideological, political reasons, because the science doesn’t support what they say, they are committed to thinking climate change is a myth, they have no sceptical view of it…that doesn’t mean there aren’t issues in climate science that we haven’t yet solved, of course there are, but the basic message that the temperature of the planet is rising, because of increases in CO2, that human activity has contributed, it’s absolutely clear, & it’s supported by probably 95%, 98% or probably more of climate scientists. almost none who would argue against that. the real noise is from lobbyists, newspaper columnists, often not scientists at all, based on ideology – they are frightened & worried about what society would have to do if there is climate change. they don’t like the fact we would need some sort of world co-operation and control; or individual nations would need to be constrained in what they do – or
    individuals or corporations. that is anathema to them. so they attack the science. they are not evidence-based, they are driven by ideology.

    Natasha mentions Nurse has criticised CAGW sceptics, tho not quite like this:

    Sept 2014: Daily Mail: Climate sceptics should be ‘crushed and buried’: Sir Paul Nurse attacks politicians who ‘distort’ facts on global warming

    Natasha wonders if Nurse’s criticism will exacerbate polarisation, asking isn’t there scope for dialogue?

    Nurse defends his position: individuals may have particular views which misunderstand the science; it’s the responsibility of scientists to dialogue with them, present the evidence to them, make the arguments. where i lose patience, is when we have serial offenders who wilfully ignore those arguments, & continue peddling incorrect ideas, incorrect theories, & trying to influence public opinion. then i lose patience. if WE have a constantly, serially-offending individual who has the public ear, who is saying things that are incorrect, WE should correct them…WE have to be pretty robust with them.

    Natasha: certainly climate scientists who have taken the public stage have been trolled, they have been attacked. has it had personal consequences for you, speaking out publicly about this issue, in your role as President of the Royal Society?

    Nurse: yes a bit, but not as much as for real climate scientists, because i never claimed to be a climate science expert. all i say is listen to the experts. i don’t say listen to me, i say listen to the
    experts. and the “climate science change deniers” (sic) hate that because the experts have a very clear opinion which is different to theirs. some things that are said to me they are offensive, they are rude, they don’t understand how to have a proper scientific debate, they are disgraceful actually, but frankly it hasn’t been a major problem for me.

    50

    • #
      Glen Michel

      Nurse has always been a driven ideologue- and an emotional one at that.Its a pity that some people don’t get out much these days.

      60

  • #
    Karim D. Ghantous

    I will only say this: one of the strengths of the ABC is that it can report on events and opinions that would not be reported on commercial broadcasters due to possible ‘conflicts of interest’ with advertisers. But the ABC still effectively falls into this trap. I love the ABC and the idea behind it, so I want to see it WORK.

    67

    • #
      ianl8888

      The ABC failed, deliberately and serially, to report any of the evidence under cross-examination from TURC that it (the ABC) did not like – which was almost all of it. This despite said evidence being given under oath on pain of perjury

      It’s no good claiming the TURC was a political witch-hunt as an excuse for not reporting it. For example, how many people who choose the ABC as their primary “news” source know that two ex-employees (one a middle manager, the other a senior manager), employed at the time by CBUS, have been charged with perjury for denying under oath that they successfully connived in supplying detailed personal data (names, addresses, phone nos etc) of a huge chunk of CBUS superannuation clients to the CFMEU for the union to harass these clients (by pretending to be from CBUS) with false information about their construction employer ? The CFMEU was in dispute with this construction firm at the time

      Remember, TURC was webcast, I watched most of the key public evidence days, so I KNOW what was uncovered from direct evidence, not that junk later chewed to unrecognition and then spewed out by hack journos

      But ABC rhubes do not know of this corruption, by deliberate ABC choice. Useless to whine that commercial TV channels didnt cover this either, as that puts Ten “news” on a par with ABC “news”, doesn’t it ?

      160

      • #
        Dariusz

        This is a disgrace for not only their ABC but also commercial channels. There no TV channels in Oz left that report without the lefty bias. The only program I watch is the Bolt Report now.
        Used like 4 corners, beyond 2000. Now we have disgraceful Q&A, drum, project, some SBSa crap and endless repetitions of program’s, films etc.

        61

        • #
          Glen Michel

          It appears that “Friends of the ABC” – you know the type fellow readers- influence the programming at aunty;endless BBC dramas and that egregious Fry.I like”New Tricks” though.

          11

    • #
      Mark D.

      It used to be that a news organization gained popularity because it reported news carefully and accurately. The buyers of the news paid for it BECAUSE it was accurate. Advertisers wanted to get their product in front of those buyers.

      If advertisers are able to “influence” the news media, it could only be because their news product was inferior or unreliable (hence the advertisers money was more valuable than the customers money).

      If the news media paid more attention to the quality of their product and the buyers of news, they would be immune to manipulation by advertisers.

      The trouble is that today “journalists” are mostly “agendaists” and no longer are inclined to present unbiased news. In this environment they are very susceptible to manipulation by like minded advertisers.

      71

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        I never heard the word agendaists until now, Mark. But it fits very well — pushers of their own agenda is exactly what they are.

        I shall remember that word. :-)

        31

    • #
      James Murphy

      I don’t live in Australia, but I use the ABC to keep an eye on things ‘back home’.
      I did not see any news reports on the ABC regarding:
      Bill Shorten breaking the law by using a mobile phone while driving (and his other car damaging incident).
      Saudi Arabia beheading enormous numbers of (political) prisoners.
      The emotional testimony given to the UN security council by Nadia Murad Basee Taha, a Yazidi woman who was raped and tortured at the hands of Daesh.
      The deaths of 32 oil workers in Azerbaijan, as a result of an accident on a SOCAR-owned production platform. (had it been BP, the other big player in Azerbaijan, it would have made world headlines)

      (of course, it may have been reported online, and I didn’t see it, in which case, I accept that I am wrong)

      I see biased reporting of:
      the union official being appointed to the upper house in South Australia as a reward for his part in deposing the previous premier.
      The supposedly “peaceful ‘climate change’ march” in paris – where tear gas was used, and more than 100 people were arrested for violent behaviour
      Stories related to the Catholic church (always negative)
      Stories related to Israel (almost always anti-Israel)
      Stories related to Daesh (97% apologist – nothing to back up that number, just an estimate based on a feeling)

      There’s a reason why “The Drum” attracts so many Labor/Greens supporters via comments – its human nature, people like to read things which conform with their world view…

      10

  • #
    John

    At least Eric Abetz stopped the interviewer in his tracks the other morning on ABC Radio National with hard evidence of bias when the interviewer was about to go through with the normal “nothing wrong with us, its just you extreme right wing paranoid nut cases” and Eric also shot down his time = balance argument (although Eric did not bring up ABC time devoted to climate alarmism 99.99% scepticism 0.01%).

    But Eric hoping that Michelle Guthrie will reform the ABC is like expecting Kylie Minogue to re-organise “Hell’s Angels”.

    I am afraid that we will have to wait for some-one like Donald Trump with the gall and the balls to wipe the ABC off the face of the broadcasting landscape. Then they can topple all the useless and ugly windmills off the geographical one.

    Trouble is, like Donald Trump, he or she may require more than gall and balls to get past the line in the ballot box.

    70

  • #
    King Geo

    Auntie Independent and Unbiased – LOL.

    It is so “leftist” in its “Modus of Operandi” – zero subtlety – the funding keeps coming so why would they change. If it wasn’t for their good sports coverage, good world movies & good series etc I would not listen to or watch Auntie. The moment current affairs programs appear I switch off immediately.

    80

  • #
    pat

    the kind of analysis you will not see on ABC -

    from AP’s website re the article below:

    EDITOR’S NOTE: Part a yearlong effort by The Associated Press and the Associated Press Media Editors, examining the state of America’s infrastructure.

    yet, at time of posting, Philly Inquirer is the only MSM outlet picking up this lengthy investigative piece, which is a MUST-READ:

    22 Dec: Philadelphia Inquirer: AP: David A. Lieb: Renewable energy efforts stymied by transmission roadblocks
    MOBERLY, Mo. (AP) – Mike McKeown opens the back door of his Missouri farm house and is met with a chilly gust. “Stupid wind,” he mutters.
    Today, the winds that blow through his corn and soybean farm have become more than just an irritant. The homestead in northern Missouri, which his family has owned for nearly 70 years, sits smack in the path of a proposed high-voltage line that would carry renewable energy from the wind-whipped plains of western Kansas to power-thirsty cities farther east. And McKeown doesn’t like that.
    Due partly to the intense opposition from local property owners, Missouri regulators have blocked the 780-mile-long Grain Belt Express power line from being built. In doing so, they have highlighted one of the toughest challenges facing the nation as it tries to shift toward a greater reliance on renewable energy.
    Converting the wind and sun into electricity is increasingly affordable, but it can be difficult to get that electricity from distant plains and deserts to the places where it’s needed. The reasons range from technical to regulatory…READ ALL
    http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20151222_ap_0462fcffedd749c2a7e0e729be79d681.html

    50

    • #
      ianl8888

      The issue with renewabubbles (sun and wind) is unpredictable intermittency. Infrastructure is secondary, scalable and resolvable (although not without a lot of individual conflicts, of course)

      30

  • #
    AndrewWA

    Merge their ABC and SBS – keeping the best of both – and run with a combined budget of AUD400 million.

    Yes, that DOES mean a considerable downsizing but the outcome will be worth the pain.

    51

    • #
      TdeF

      Agreed, but I cannot see the point of SBS. It was Al Grassby stuff, he of the wild colours, when multicultural was the idea and the Greeks were supplanting the Italians in numbers, then the Lebanese. Now forty years on, an ‘ethnic’ TV station does not make sense in an internet world?
      Does it?

      Those who want direct TV have big TV aerials for Chinese satellites and the rest. Others just watch all their favorite Russian comedians on Youtube. SBS cannot hope to service hundreds of languages and cultures with a single TV channel, so the whole concept is dead. So why are we, the taxpayers, funding $200,000,000 a year for ethnic television? Can anyone think of a more useful and modern use for this huge amount of cash? The total of ABC and SBS is $1,400,000,000 every year and climbing. Of course SBS is getting into the internet too. Why? Who wants this? Why should we pay for it?

      71

      • #
        TdeF

        Just looked up Al Grassby, minister for Immigration in the Whitlam government. I always thought he was Italian? No, Spanish, Irish. Born in Brisbane but grew up entirely in the UK in the 30′s 40s. Joined the British army, even the Intelligence Corps. His father was killed by a German bomb. A very mixed background and not what was expected. Not the slightest bit Italian. The “Father of multiculturalism” was always associated with the Mafia in the Riverina, so I thought he was Italian. Still the ties were outrageous, even for the days of Carnaby Street.

        00

  • #
    pat

    if ABC is not constrained by commercial interests, why no report to date on the scandal that is Abengoa, especially as ABC – as much as or more than Fairfax & other MSM – is pushing for investors to put their money into renewables.

    no-one else reporting the following, yet the following is linked from BBC’s generic Abengoa page (the Beeb is also avoiding the present & growing Abengoa debacle) but requires registration:

    21 Dec: GlobalCapital: Victor Jiminez: Investors drag Abengoa into judicial maze amid bank negotiations
    Abengoa, the engineering and renewable energy firm, woke up on Monday to two lawsuits from share and bond holders in Spain, while lenders agree to inject 100 million Euros so the company could meet December’s payroll
    The new year may turn into a field of quicksands for Abengoa. On Monday, a group of shareholders under the umbrella of Aamec, Spain’s main organisation of retail investors, filed with the commercial court in Sevile, a lawsuit against Abengoa…
    http://www.globalcapital.com/article/vqd8wzvcyq94/investors-drag-abengoa-into-judicial-maze-amid-bank-negotiations

    70

  • #
    RB

    The ABC is biased and unreliable. The $1.2B is wasted. Either ditch it entirely or allow the major parties to run there own publicly funded channels. At least you will get to hear both sides of the story.

    70

  • #
    pat

    22 Dec: DailyCaller: Michael Bastasch: Climate Scientist Details The Huge Problems With The Global Temperature Record
    Scientists are already claiming 2015 will be the hottest year on record…
    Such news makes great headlines, but ignores the huge problems with the global temperature record, according to Dr. Richard Keen, meteorologist emeritus at the University of Colorado who is also an official weather station record keeper…
    “It’s a very difficult thing to measure,” Keen told “Power Hour” host Alex Epstein, who heads up the Center for Industrial Progress. “The traditional method is to take stations… and then average them around the globe.”
    Sounds easy enough, but Keen noted the surface temperature record is riddled with problems ranging from where weather stations are sited to huge gaps in station coverage that force scientists to basically guess at how hot or cold an area was in a given year.
    And yet, scientists still use surface temperature records to claim 2014 was the hottest year on record — even though the difference between that year and the next hottest year was well within the margin of error.
    “That’s just a fantasy, you can’t measure the average of the planet to that accuracy using surface observations,” Keen said.
    But gaps in global thermometer coverage is only the tip of the iceberg, according to Keen, as these weather stations often encounter lots of siting issues and environmental factors that throw off station readings…
    “Those places have gone from little farmsteads to big cities, or become airports that are paved with asphalt,” Keen said. “The urban heat island effect can be enormous.”…
    http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/22/climate-scientist-details-the-huge-problems-with-the-global-temperature-record/

    50

  • #
    pat

    21 Dec: WaPo: Chris Mooney: Oil prices keep falling — this is the reason why
    There is no reprieve, of late, for the oil market. And U.S. consumers have been reaping the benefits…
    Analysts continue to stress that, eventually, the excess supply will force cuts in production and the market will “rebalance,” as the International Energy Agency recently put it. Nonetheless, in its recently released World Energy Outlook, the agency considered the possibility of a “low oil price scenario” in which prices stay at $ 50 or $ 60 per barrel well into the 2020s.
    If that happens, it will hurt clean energy goals, the IEA suggests — quashing investments in energy efficiency and alternative fuels. Indeed, in the U.S., gasoline consumption has actually grown by 3 percent from January through September of 2015, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration — a suggestion that low prices are nudging people to drive more…
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/12/21/oil-prices-keep-falling-this-is-the-reason-why/

    16 Dec: Reuters: Cheap gas spurs SUV sales, putting U.S. climate goals at risk
    By David Shepardson and Paul Lienert
    Surging demand for trucks and SUVs fueled by cheap gasoline threatens to hold back improvements in U.S. fuel economy and greenhouse gas emissions, a government report released on Wednesday shows…
    The report from the Environmental Protection Agency said fleet-wide U.S. fuel efficiency was flat at 24.3 miles (39 km) per gallon in the 2014 model year compared with the prior year.
    Fleetwide fuel efficiency is supposed to edge up to 24.7 mpg in the 2015 model year – or about 1.6 percent – but even that modest increase is “particularly uncertain given market conditions, including lower gasoline prices,” the EPA said…
    Efficiency is still up 26 percent over the last decade, according to the EPA. But nearly 59 percent of U.S. vehicle sales this year have been larger vehicles, up from 54 percent last year, according to industry consultant Autodata Corp…
    Meeting current efficiency rules will cost the auto industry as much as $157.3 billion between 2017 and 2025, according to Obama administration estimates. The Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers – the trade association representing major automakers – has been raising concerns about the rules.
    “Keeping up this pace of increasing fuel economy will be challenging, especially since our compliance is based on sales, not what we put on showroom floors,” the industry group said on Wednesday…
    http://www.trust.org/item/20151216203427-tb8tw

    20

  • #
    pat

    23 Dec: Bloomberg: Eric Roston: ExxonMobil and Sierra Club Agreed on Climate Policy—and Kept It Secret
    A forgotten accord reached in 2009 may yet have relevance for the future of U.S. climate policy.
    ExxonMobil and Sierra Club may be thought of as natural enemies, particularly when it comes to a question so tricky as how to address climate change. That’s what two men named David thought, too, when they first met in 2008 to talk about a climate policy with very little support: a national tax on industrial carbon dioxide emissions. Secretly, however, they found that a common problem—the threat of unwieldy legislation—can for a time scramble the very idea of friends and enemies…
    A final document from the ExxonMobil-Sierra Club group, dated Sept. 8, 2009, set down guidelines conceived to help Congress write carbon tax legislation. The document was provided to Bloomberg by Bookbinder…
    The document—available here (LINK)(PDF)—consists of 10 ideas that might shape a national carbon tax…
    Neither ExxonMobil nor Sierra Club put their imprimatur on it. The group anticipated shopping the ideas around town, Bailey recalled, and didn’t want either logo putting off would-be supporters.
    The whole thing soon came to naught…
    David Bookbinder left Sierra Club in 2010, and David Bailey retired from ExxonMobil in 2012. Today, the two are co-founders of Element VI Consulting, which provides expertise on climate policy…
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-22/exxonmobil-and-sierra-club-agreed-on-climate-policy-and-kept-it-secret

    30

  • #
    pat

    22 Dec: BBC: Matt McGrath: US wild bee numbers decline as land is converted for biofuel
    The study suggests that between 2008 and 2013, the numbers of wild bees went down across almost a quarter of the US.
    The researchers say that the conversion of land to grow corn for biofuels is a key element in the decline.
    If the trend continues say the scientists, it could drive up costs and destabilise crop production…
    The results show that numbers of wild bees likely declined by 23% between 2008 and 2013 in key agricultural regions in California, the Midwest, in Great Plains states and in the Mississippi river valley…
    The most important reason for the decline in numbers according to the authors is the increased demand for biofuels, which has seen more land turned over to growing grains. US law requires that all gasoline sold
    contains at least 10% ethanol, mostly made from corn.
    In the areas that have seen the most serious reduction in wild bees, there have been 200% increases in the amount of corn planted.”The pattern we show is consistent with the expansion of corn for ethanol, the reduction of areas around fields that weren’t cultivated before,” said senior author, Prof Taylor Ricketts from the University of Vermont…
    The research has been published in the journal, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35153196

    30

  • #

    The ABC gets experts in for everything, but the have missed the boat badly here. I’m afraid.

    When I started doing all this back in March of 2008, I had the idea it was dry, dull and boring, and would tap out in two, maybe three Months at the absolute best, and that would be the end of me as a contributor.

    The site owner just asked me to write whatever I wanted, perhaps something related to my electrical trade, dull, boring, stuff, really in my opinion. When he said that it was really interesting, that surprised me. Feedback from him, and others encouraged me to think that maybe people really did want to know about that sort of stuff.

    I had the same doubts when I first dipped my toe in here at Joanne’s site, that it would very rapidly wear thin, then wear off, and again, that would have been it for me.

    Again, what I found, and even more so here, was that people want to know this stuff.

    Relating this to the ABC, they, as an entity, get all sort of people in to explain virtually everything, and they can afford to do that with the taxpayers bottomless pockets. I can understand that they would not venture to explain renewable power, or even any form of power generation, coal fired included, because as journalists, they know journalism, and would not be comfortable explaining the technical engineering processes behind all forms of power generation, and there would be the distinct impression, just like I had, that it would be dry and boring, something the general public would tune out immediately when it was mentioned.

    I cannot recall ever seeing, anywhere, anything in the way of an explanation for ….. how power is being generated, any form of it. The only people who do explain anything about it at all, really have very little idea themselves, just saying that ….. coal is bad, and renewables are good, without ever explaining ….. the HOW of it all, and never explaining it in any manner longer than a couple of quick sentences, with virtually no real detail at all.

    Judging on what has happened to me here at this site, and also at my home site, I am of the distinct impression that people really DO want to know about this, that it can be explained correctly, and mainly, that people can actually grasp that technical engineering aspect, if it is explained correctly, and in depth.

    I actually do despair for the time when the people find out that renewables just CAN’T cut it, that existing plants begin to close as they become clapped out very early, and it’s already happening with wind plants now.

    What’s going to end up happening then?

    People really WILL want explanations, and there will be the Dorrie Evans comment most to the fore here ….. “Why wasn’t I told?”

    People do want to know, and there is no one telling them anything.

    As I have often said, it is the inherent nature of electricity supply which leads to that false sense of security here, the fact that it is ALWAYS there at that proverbial hole in the wall.

    So people quite naturally, (and quite incorrectly) believe that renewables are in fact pulling their weight and actually supplying.

    THAT is what needs to be explained.

    It may not happen on the Biggies, the NINE and SEVEN, and clueless TEN wouldn’t even think of it.

    SBS, well it’s never going to happen there either.

    So that only leaves the ABC.

    They get in experts for everything there, but not for this, and that puzzles me.

    It needs to be explained, and then allow the people to make up their own minds.

    I’ve found that out in spades here, and to tell the truth, it just amazed me that people actually keep asking questions, showing interest, and then coming back for more.

    People really do want to know this, and there’s no one to tell them.

    I rabbit on at length I know, but obviously, the people here seem to like that, otherwise I would have stopped not long after starting here.

    I’m definitely not the fount of all knowledge on this, but I can find out the correct information a hell of a lot quicker than someone with no knowledge ….. who is looking for answers.

    Tony.

    PostScript – There could also be the school of thought that the ABC actually has done something like this, has found out the truth, and then made the decision not to say anything about it, because it goes against the meme, and THAT is why they have never approached the subject again. THAT scares me.

    213

    • #
      AndyG55

      Tony, this is in your area of expertise, I think.. can you confirm or otherwise?

      I heard that Tassie is in quite of a lot of trouble energy wise.

      Their hydro dams are very low, and the Bass interlink is damaged, and may take a month or two to repair.

      They may have to RELY on the wind farms, (Oh-no !!!!) if they don’t get some decent rain in the west, soon !!!

      They do have one old coal fired power station somewhere, but that will be very difficult, if impossible to bring back on line.

      84

    • #
      ianl8888


      … the ABC actually has done something like this, has found out the truth, and then made the decision not to say anything about it, because it goes against the meme, and THAT is why they have never approached the subject again …

      Yes. I have friends who in turn have an SBS journo as a friend – she always talks right over the top of this information in a very loud voice to drown it out, as she knows the impact it may have. For peace and harmony, I don’t bother raising it anymore. The only piece of information I put firmly into conversation is that coal-fired power stations cannot be turned on and off like a light switch. Even that obvious detail is treated as if it’s leprositic :)

      Then they use the excuse that because most people are bored rigid with science/engineering detail (true enough, I’m sorry) there is no market to publish this information for

      91

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Tony,

      I think you’ve centuries worth of material left if you want to keep going. There’ll always be someone feeding you a leadin for your expertise to speak out.

      So keep it up my friend. The world needs your cool even handed analysis, even if it doesn’t appreciate it.

      And I think we’re all scared about the way things are going — small consolation I’m sure but you aren’t alone.

      50

    • #
  • #
    JB

    Has any of the Australian media reported the outcome? of the Paris Climate conference?

    42

  • #
    Peter C

    ABC defunded, broken up, sold! What a Christmas present that would be.

    Sadly not this year.

    80

  • #
    gnome

    Today the ABC’s News Radio was reporting that Tanya Plibersek has given Malcolm Turnbull a D (D+ I think it was) for his first 100 days in office. I wonder when they will report Turnbull’s rating of Plibersek for the same period. It’s all important news (sarc).

    Do they think things like this don’t get noticed? Turnbull is smart enough to be smarting over this, and also to be plotting his revenge. His treatment by Idiot Alberici just before the 2010 election won’t be forgotten either. Turnbull will be quietly chipping away at the ABC and they won’t even notice until it’s too late.

    21

  • #
    ScotsmaninUtah

    …. We can’t vote for programs or presenters; we can’t choose not to pay for it. We can’t choose to sell it, or even to send our tax funds to a different broadcaster

    The BBC are identical in this. As for independent unbiased reporting one has to physically leave the country to escape the “cheap” (as my American colleuge said when referring to the BBC production quality) programming.

    “old farts” coupled with repetitive formats and a relentless soap box of self admiration that leaves you thinking that the BBC is the only “one true” Broadcaster.

    The ABC is of course totally different…

    However many comments here have me seriously concerned that there has been incestuous “goings on” in the broadcasting halls of the commonwealth.

    50

  • #
    JB

    As a left winger and Labor voter I was appalled at the treatment meted out to the democratically elected Prime Minister of Australia, Tony Abbott, by the ABC. The ABCs’ conduct in interviews and news items was disgusting and an affront to all Australians. Naturally I could find plenty of reasons to disagree with Tony Abbott, however the ABC is supposed to be ‘independent’. Shame ABC shame.

    132

  • #
    Boley

    The only thing that will fix the abc and all the other problems discussed here is a big recession when the socialists run out of other people’s money only then will these problems be fixed I don’t know how long it will take but it will happen

    22

  • #
    pat

    TonyfromOz -

    here’s another ABC example:

    23 Dec: ABC: Melanie Pearce: Developer of $20 million Australian-first solar thermal pilot plant predicts sunny future under Turnbull
    After hours of steady rain, there is not a ray of sunshine in sight and the mud is thick on the ground at the $20 million Jemalong pilot solar thermal plant near Forbes in central west New South Wales.
    But in a way, the fact it is overcast helps to explain the importance of this technology, which enables both capture and storage of energy from the sun, according to James Fisher, chief technology officer of Vast Solar.
    The engineer, who formerly worked in the fossil fuel industry and said he never thought renewables could compete with coal, now has a much sunnier outlook on the subject…
    The Australian company has developed what it hopes will be a low-cost, high-efficiency Concentrated Solar Power (CSP) generation technology…
    “We can run 24 hours a day and providing base load is really the key to solar thermal,” he said…
    Vast Solar has revealed plans for a 30 megawatt commercial plant — at a yet to be determined location — and Mr Fisher said the company had progressed well in attracting investment.
    “But a problem is it’s big money to develop it. These plants you can only build in large scale, so a tiny plant will be $100 million and a good-sized plant will be $500 million,” Mr Fisher said…
    Mr Fisher said commercial solar thermal plants could be producing power at seven cents per kilowatt hour, which was cheaper than the most up-to-date coal-fired plants…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-23/developer-of-australian-first-solar-thermal-pilot-plant/7051578

    you are given the impressions this is INNOVATIVE technology and no-one is asked to assess the claims, etc.

    23 Dec: SeeNewsRenewables: California’s 392-MW Ivanpah CSP park to get 6 month to boost output
    The CSP park in the Mojave Desert is a partnership between NRG, Google (NASDAQ:GOOG) and BrightSource Energy Inc. NRG disclosed in November that Ivanpah was not likely to meet its obligations under the PPA for the first two years of operations. Under the terms of the contract, if either of Ivanpah units 1 and 3 deliver less than the guaranteed energy production amount in any performance measurement period, PG&E has the right to declare an event of default.
    The six-month reprieve deal, which needs the green light from the California Public Utilities Commission, will give Ivanpah until July 2016 to reach the agreed production levels.
    http://renewables.seenews.com/news/californias-392-mw-ivanpah-csp-park-to-get-6-mo-to-boost-output-506612

    subscription or whatever required for further details at the following:

    23 Dec: RechargeNews: Ivanpah CSP plant owners seek more time to boost output
    Pacific Gas & Electric has agreed to give the underperforming Ivanpah CSP plant in California another six months to improve its output, although the NRG Energy-owned project still faces an uncertain future…

    50

    • #
      The Backslider

      providing base load is really the key to solar thermal

      LMFAO!!!

      20

      • #

        Oh dear!

        Speaking of the ABC, how’s this for a monumental beat up?

        Developer of $20 million Australian-first solar thermal pilot plant predicts sunny future under Turnbull

        They talk Base Load. What a joke.

        1.1MW

        What the!

        1.1MW.

        Hmm! So we only need 2,130 of these plants to replace Bayswater, at, umm, $20 Million, so there’s 42.5 BILLION.

        But hey, they then mention that if this is a success, they can scale it up to, umm, (perhaps) 30MW, and at $500 million, and now only 88 Plants to replace Bayswater, at (their figures) $500 Million each, that’s only $44 Billion.

        Oh, frabjous day! We’re saved!

        And they, umm, very, err, artfully say they can provide 24 hours of power. (he says, with fingers crossed behind his back) Well perhaps for 30 days or so maybe in mid Summer, but the plant will be lucky to generate one watt in the Winter Months, closing down more likely, until the Sun moves a little closer in the warmer Months.

        But hey, remember that image I linked to a week or so back of that pristinely immaculate turbine hall at the huge coal fired power plant in China, that new tech USC HELE plant.

        Well, umm, at that ABC article, scroll down to the last image, oh Tee Hee Hee!

        THAT ….. is their turbine room.

        And people lap this up.

        It’s a losing battle trying to explain things to the crowd who think that ….. THIS ….. is the way of the future.

        Oh, give me strength!

        Tony.

        PostScript – Oh, and for those of you who are interested, this plant will generate power in ONE WHOLE YEAR the same amount of power delivered by Bayswater in, umm, TWO HOURS AND THIRTY FIVE MINUTES. How good is that? We’re saved!

        40

        • #

          Yeah, look, I thought that was an error as soon as I wrote it, in that PostScript. Finger trouble on the plastic brain, the trusty old Casio fx-100C.

          That power delivery is at normal yearly operations.

          With all four units in full operation, that total yearly power from this solar plant is delivered in TWO hours flat.

          Tony.

          40

        • #
          James Murphy

          I like the way they describe James Fisher as a reformed character who has ‘seen the error of his ways’ and repented all his “fossil fuel industry” sins. Another sign that this is more religion than science.

          I’m curious to know if they’ll be using “pure” sodium, which has a melting point of ~100C, or NaK, which is liquid at STP. Either way, an accident at the plant, resulting in exposure to water, or air would result in quite the exciting YouTube video (though hopefully no casualties).

          It could be very embarrassing to have the sodium solidify in the tanks, and/or pipes, when the sun fails to shine for a while, even with good insulating methods, you’d need quite a mass of sodium to retain its heat.

          Still, I guess this is why such a plant will have to use a lot of power just to keep itself functioning…maybe more than it generates over its lifetime, I wouldn’t wonder.

          00

  • #
    pat

    22 Dec: Guardian: Jonathan Watts: Desert tower raises Chile’s solar power ambition to new heights
    Towering 200 metres above the desert, the Atacama 1 will harvest the sun’s energy from a surrounding field of giant mirrors. But the completion of the $1.1bn project, the first of its kind in Latin America, has been thrown into doubt by the financial difficulties of its Spanish owner
    Still under construction, the Atacama 1 Concentrated Solar Power plant is a symbol of the shift from dirty fossil fuels to a cleaner, smarter way to generate electricity in Chile which is leading the charge for solar in Latin America thanks to its expanses of wilderness and some of the most intense sunlight on Earth…
    But – amid reports of its Spanish owner Abengoa’s financial difficulties – it is also a reminder of how the energy transition is increasingly challenged more by financing uncertainties than engineering obstacles…
    That ambition may have to be put on hold. Despite the strong position of the Atacama 1 plant, which has a 20-year contract at a fixed and profitable price to sell to the local grid (which will then uses most of the electricity to meet the demands of industry, such as Chuquicamata, – the world’s biggest open pit copper mine), Abengoa is perilously deep in debt…
    Even before the restructuring was announced, company executives acknowledged that Atacama 1 was a stretch because there are no direct subsidies in Chile.
    “This will be an iconic project that reduces 840,000 tonnes of carbon emissions per year,” said Ivan Araneda, general director of Abengoa Solar Chile. “But we have to compete with conventional generation, so we have the challenge of reducing costs to be more competitive. The financing for these facilities is a challenge.”…
    The plant’s future is now in doubt while the company reorganises…
    “Chile is a unique market in that solar is cheaper than coal…
    Transmission networks are insufficiently developed to send the electricity even to Santiago, let alone neighbouring nations…
    In the near future, Chile plans to link its northern and central grids. But beyond that, any cross-border network expansion will have to contend with the Andes mountain range…
    All that is needed is the finance. But as Abengoa has discovered to its cost, without money the lights can quickly dim on even the brightest solar plans.
    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/22/desert-tower-raises-chiles-solar-power-ambition-to-new-heights

    30

    • #
      ianl8888


      … energy transition is increasingly challenged more by financing uncertainties than engineering obstacles…

      I’m with TonyOz here – statements like that are genuinely frustrating, causing hypertension, in that they are flat wrong without any chance being given to cross-questioning

      … which is the point of it, I suppose

      11

  • #
    pat

    all that remains of the ambitious CSP Desertec dream:

    4 Dec: Deutsche Welle: Could Morocco’s megaplant revive dreams of Saharan solar?
    In December, the first plant of a gigantic thermal solar power complex on the edge of the Sahara will go online. But this does not fulfill a former dream of exporting such power to Europe – which is still a long way off.
    Bold plans to use desert sun to supply northern energy needs were dashed when, in 2013, investors pulled out of the gargantuan Desertec project. Its solar plants, spread across the Sahara desert, were to provide 15 percent of Europe’s electricity by 2050…
    The Noor-Ouarzazate complex, located 200 kilometers from Marrakesh at the edge of the desert, is set to become the largest concentrated solar power (CSP) plant in the world by the time it is completed in 2017. It aims to generate 500 megawatts of electricity, enough to supply 1.1 million Moroccans. Noor 1, the first of its four plants, should be switched on in December 2015.
    The Ouarzazate complex was originally intended as the first in a series of Desertec plants that would extend all the way to Egypt…
    That project was backed by the Desertec Industrial Initiative (DII), a consortium of 57 shareholders chiefly from Germany, including Siemens, RWE, Deutsche Bank and E.ON. It collapsed in 2013 when all but three pulled out, fearing that Europe’s electricity grid was nowhere near ready to absorb fluctuating solar power outputs from Africa…
    Like the other planned Desertec plants, the Ouarzazate complex uses CSP technology. But since 2009, photovoltaic (PV) panels have become much cheaper than CSP, and are now the far more common technology…
    “Ouarzazate is much more expensive than PV projects,” says Chase (Jenny Chase, head of solar insight with Bloomberg New Energy Finance in Zurich). “The big question is whether the project goes smoothly. If it does, banks will be more willing to finance these projects in the future.”…
    In November 2015, the DII hosted a Desert Energy Leadership Summit in Dubai, where Desertec CEO Paul van Son told delegates the dream was about to be revived. “In the MENA region eco-power plants with approximately 3 gigawatts of power are in operation, and by 2020 more than 30GW are planned.” he said. “Thus, DII has fulfilled its first mission.”
    DII split from the Desertec Foundation – the other main organization behind the original Deseretc project – in 2013…
    http://www.dw.com/en/could-moroccos-megaplant-revive-dreams-of-saharan-solar/a-18888234

    19 Dec: CleanTechnica: Jake Richardson: 160 MW Of Moroccan Concentrating Solar Power Coming Online
    Electricity generated by the first 160-megawatt portion of the 580-megawatt Ouarzazate CSP plant will be added to the grid in Morocco beginning in December. The World Bank and the European Investment Bank have provided about $9 billion in loans for the huge project. ACWA Power was behind the fundraising and it might be in a position to acquire Abengoa’s assets, should the Spanish company go bankrupt…
    The dramatic drop in the price of PV solar has not been good for concentrating solar power, which is now much more expensive, “The debate of whether CSP or PV power plants will prevail has been argued for several years. When looking at current and future price levels CSP has—and will have—the highest levelized cost of electricity (LCOE; €/kWh). Due to large price reductions in PV over the last few years the LCOE of PV is about half the cost of CSP, and will remain so until 2030.”
    Another advantage of PV solar farms is that they take less time to complete. Solar thermal plants can include a way to store a heated material and can generate electricity at night, however — but cost-effective energy storage in the form of batteries is becoming more common too.
    Once the second and third phases of the Ouarzazate solar power plant are up and running, it will be able to store energy for about 8 hours. Also, when the plant is fully operational, it will provide electricity to an estimated one million homes.
    By 2020, Morocco will get about one third of its electricity from solar power…
    https://cleantechnica.com/2015/12/19/160-mw-moroccan-concentrating-solar-power-coming-online/

    10

  • #
    pat

    finally, the ACWA Power that CleanTechnica wrote “might be in a position to acquire Abengoa’s assets, should the Spanish company go bankrupt” has raised funds for Phase 2.

    29 May: Cleantechnica: Mridul Chadha: ACWA Power Secures $2 Billion For Morocco CSP Projects
    Saudi Arabia’s ACWA Power has reported progress on the financial front of two landmark solar power projects in Morocco.
    A consortium led by ACWA Power announced that it has closed debt funding worth $2 billion for two concentrated solar power (CSP) projects in Morocco. ACWA Power will work with Spanish technology provider Sener and Chinese construction and engineering company Sepco to develop CSP projects with a total capacity of 350 MW.
    The CSP project will form the phase 2 of the landmark Noor-Quarzazate solar power project…
    The project is expected to achieve full capacity by 2020…
    The consortium has been able to attract debt funding from a number of institutions. In December last year, the African Development Bank pledged to support the 2 CSP projects with $250 million funding, while a few days back, the European Union granted $47.8 million loan for the project. The full list of debt providers to the project is not known at the moment.
    http://cleantechnica.com/2015/05/29/acwa-power-secures-2-billion-morocco-csp-projects/

    as for Ouarzazate going online this month – one report on 14 Dec stated it would be operational within a week – there’s nothing to be found online suggesting that has happened or is about to happen.

    the next COP being scheduled for Marrakesh is presumably intending to showcase this solar thermal marvel

    20

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everyone. :-)

    30

  • #
    • #
      • #
        el gordo

        So what you are saying is ignore blogs and accept the journals version of events.

        I cannot, none of them have come up with a credible answer as to why the hiatus after 19 years?

        114

        • #

          So what you are saying is ignore blogs

          So I guess when you get ill you visit a blog site rather than a GP?
          :-)

          314

          • #
            Rollo

            1735099.

            I hope you don’t believe everything your GP tells you. I suggest seeking other opinions, including blogs.

            Likewise with climate science why take the word of those who hold that anthropogenic CO2 is the sole control knob for temperature and that consideration of other possibilities is closed?

            Have a merry Christmas everyone. :-)

            53

          • #
            el gordo

            ‘So I guess when you get ill you visit a blog site rather than a GP?’

            Preferably, I’m a default vegan.

            When you want to be reinforced in your belief system its only natural that corrupt journals are the way to go.

            52

      • #
        Glen Michel

        I accept that you’re gullible.Brainwashed as well most likely

        75

        • #

          I accept that you’re gullible.Brainwashed as well most likely

          I live in the real world – I don’t take advice from the unqualified.
          When I was studying history I got my information from primary sources and professional historians. It served me well.
          It helped me to my first degree.
          When I was studying education, I got my information from practice supported by the professional literature, again, journals.
          It also served me well. I’ve had a very successful career in teaching, educational administration and consultancy.
          I am not an expert on climate, so I get my information from the scientific literature.
          I don’t go to blog sites to learn, but I do find many of them (especially this one) repositories of ignorance, bigotry and vested interest.
          They also offer great entertainment.

          416

          • #
            The Backslider

            If you really care to look, most skeptic climate blogs will refer you to the literature (which I know you do not care to look at, talking about ignorance and bigotry). They just serve to make things easy to find and accessible.

            I do not for a moment believe that you go poring through journals. Your favorite website is most likely Skeptical Science and you have a long lost brother named Michael.

            84

          • #
            el gordo

            Numbers appeals to authority, a logical fallacy.

            ‘I don’t go to blog sites to learn…’

            Convince me that CO2 causes global warming and I’ll take your myopic view seriously.

            Where’s your positive feedbacks? Why have the models failed to replicate reality?

            73

            • #
              Slayer of Memes

              Numbers also tells people not to go to blog sites for AGW facts..

              …not long after linking to John Cook’s SkS BLOG for his own “science facts”…

              Logic was never one of Numbers’ strong points (and he’s an ex-teacher too…)

              73

          • #
            Geoff Sherrington

            Can you describe, please, just one example of vested interest that you have seen on this site?
            Geoff

            41

      • #
        The Backslider

        That’s a bog

        Which happens to refer to published papers.

        I know that you won’t care to learn, but here it is:

        So far the Medieval Warming Period Map has 157 markers plotted on it. Each plotted marker has an embedded link to the literature which shows the MWP’s existence for that location. As we can see, the 157 studies represented by the markers are scattered all over the globe. – See more at: http://notrickszone.com/2015/12/23/new-comprehensive-map-by-scientists-confirms-medieval-warm-period-was-real-and-global-climate-models-faulty/#sthash.eLuFwFcy.dN7DvcH4.dpuf

        There sonny, now deny the Medieval Warm Period (who REALLY are the “climate deniers”??)

        104

        • #
          1735099

          The site you linked to is called “No Tricks Zone”.
          It further links to Wikipaedia.
          And you believe that this is a reliable source?
          Now that is funny.

          313

          • #
            PeterS

            Any source of information no matter where it comes from must be considered in isolation and separately for their truthfulness. The paper on which information is written is not the one telling the truth or lies, it’s the author behind the material. Use your thinking and research capabilities to verify a story. Does the ABC for example always tell lies? Of course not. Does it always tell the truth? Of course not.

            62

          • #
            ianl8888

            Try:

            https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&q=medieval+warm+period&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=

            Peer-reviewed papers galore confirming the existence of the MWP

            OK, dipstick ?

            83

            • #

              Peer-reviewed papers galore confirming the existence of the MWP

              Except they don’t.
              You googled “medieval warming period” in Google Scholar, and it turned up a tranche of references.
              Perhaps you should have read some of them -

              These warmer regional episodes were not strongly synchronous. Evidence from other regions (for example the South-eastern United States, southern Europe along the Mediterranean, and parts of South America) indicates that the climate during that time was little different from later times, or that warming, if it occurred, was recorded at a later time than what has been assumed. Taken together, the available evidence does not support a global medieval warm period, although more support for such a phenomenon could be drawn from high elevation records than low elevation records.

              (Hughes and Diaz – Laboratory of Tree Ring Research, University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado.)

              And


              The case for a global Medieval Warm Period admittedly remains inconclusive. But keeping in mind that most proxies do not have adequate sensitivity, it is interesting that those capable of resolving temperature changes of less than 1°C yield results consistent with a global Medieval Warm Period. To test whether this is indeed the case, we require Holocene snowline fluctuation records for tropical and Southern Hemisphere sites and continued studies of wood and peat exposed by the continuing retreat of Northern Hemisphere glaciers. As the world’s mountain glaciers continue to retreat, ever more evidence for past Holocene warm episodes will be exposed.

              (Was the Medieval Warm Period Global?
              Wallace S. Broecker*
              Science 23 February 2001:
              Vol. 291. no. 5508, pp. 1497 – 1499
              DOI: 10.1126/science.291.5508.1497)

              And

              Most of the reconstructed winter-dry periods in central Chile are synchronous with cold summers in northern Patagonia, resembling the present regional patterns associated with the El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO). The years A.D. 1468–69 represent, in both temperature and precipitation reconstructions from treerings, the largest departures during the last 1000 yr. A very strong ENSO event was probably responsible for these extreme deviations. Tree-ring analysis also indicates that the association between a weaker southeastern Pacific subtropical anticyclone and the occurence of El Niño events has been stable over the last four centuries, although some anomalous cases are recognized.

              (pp 183-197 – the meieval Warm Period
              Tree-Ring and Glacial Evidence for the Medieval Warm Epoch and the Little Ice Age in Southern South America
              Ricardo Villalba)

              So this is an argument, still in hypothesis. This from the sites you referred me to. Previously I was referred to a blog site and Wikipaedia.
              This is typical of the quality of discourse evident here.

              OK, dipstick ?

              Of course, there’s always a bit of abuse and name-calling which helps to establish the tone……

              613

              • #
                ianl8888

                You missed the other 40+ pages of peer-reviewed papers. I have read quite a number (that means more than 40)

                And you haven’t even begun with the peer-reviewed papers in The International Journal of Geology. I’ve read most of the papers there on the MWP in relation to sedimentology, which number in the dozens

                All scientific concepts start as hypotheses, some progress to theories and a very few become laws

                The MWP and LIA are empirical facts. Their causes are considered hypothetical at this stage

                But yoiu pick a few points on the hypothesis curve and claim vindication

                That’s why you’re a dipstick

                103

          • #
            el gordo

            Numbers

            Do you acknowledge there was a LIA and MWP?

            How do you account for no warming in 19 years?

            73

            • #

              Do you acknowledge there was a LIA and MWP?

              See above.

              How do you account for no warming in 19 years?

              The Bolt agenda – That’s simply wrong.
              Bolt can’t tell tell the difference between a rate and a trend.
              Surely you don’t have the same problem.

              313

              • #
                AndyG55

                Again the link to a low-end AGW propaganda journal specialising in rabid AGW pal-reviewed non-science from the likes of Tom Karl and Tom Petersen, the guys primarily responsible for the [snip] that is the NOAA/GHCN temperature data. The mal-adjustments applied by these guys makes anything based on their work totally unusable and meaningless

                No wonder your understanding of anything to do with science is on par with that of a spud. !!

                The REAL untampered data from the satellites shows 18+ years of NO WARMING.
                That is something your tiny mind just cannot accept.

                73

              • #
                el gordo

                Numbers there are signs that the MWP was in Argentina.

                http://www.co2science.org/articles/V18/dec/a14.php

                50

              • #
                el gordo

                ‘Surely you don’t have the same problem.’

                No.

                ‘The observed global-mean surface temperature (GMST) has shown a much smaller increasing linear trend over the past 15 years than over the past 30 to 60 years…

                ‘This difference between simulated and observed trends could be caused by some combination of (a) internal climate variability, (b) missing or incorrect radiative forcing, and (c) model response error….

                ‘In summary, the observed recent warming hiatus, defined as the reduction in GMST trend during 1998–2012 as compared to the trend during 1951–2012, is attributable in roughly equal measure to a cooling contribution from internal variability and a reduced trend in external forcing (expert judgment, medium confidence).

                ‘The forcing trend reduction is primarily due to a negative forcing trend from both volcanic eruptions and the downward phase of the solar cycle. However, there is low confidence in quantifying the role of forcing trend in causing the hiatus, because of uncertainty in the magnitude of the volcanic forcing trend and low confidence in the aerosol forcing trend.’

                IPCC

                42

              • #
                The Backslider

                The Bolt agenda – That’s simply wrong.

                No sonny. It is a fact that has been acknowledged by the IPCC and every single climate scientist, some of whom are now in denial.

                Bolt has zero to do with it other than perhaps he has pointed out the reality.

                The agenda now is to deny it and boy aren’t they going for it!

                Let’s just rehash and do some more creative homogenising of already unreliable ground based data. Nothing wrong with that, huh?

                It’s just a shame for you all that the impressively accurate satellite and balloon data blows you all away……

                As I have said, you are just a climate denier.

                20

          • #
            diogenese2

            You are supposed to click on the map to reference the peer reviewed papers relevant to the location.
            It has nothing to do with Wikipedia but is fresh work.
            Your remarks indicate that you only read the first paragraph and understood absolutely nothing

            102

            • #

              You are supposed to click on the map to reference the peer reviewed papers relevant to the location.

              And when you do you get this kind of conclusio -

              Multidecadal variations in Atlantic sea surface temperatures (SST) influence the climate of the Northern Hemisphere. However, prior to the instrumental time period, information on multidecadal climate variability becomes limited, and there is a particular scarcity of sufficiently resolved SST reconstructions. Here we present an eastern tropical North Atlantic reconstruction of SSTs based on foraminiferal Mg/Ca ratios that resolves multidecadal variability over the past 1700 years. Spectral power in the multidecadal band (50 to 70 years period) is significant over several time intervals suggesting that the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO) has been influencing local SST. Since our data exhibit high scatter the absence of multidecadal variability in the remaining record does not exclude the possibility that SST variations on this time scale might have been present without being detected in our data. Cooling by ∼0.5°C takes place between about AD 1250 and AD 1500; while this corresponds to the inception of the Little Ice Age (LIA), the end of the LIA is not reflected in our record and SST remains relatively low. This transition to cooler SSTs parallels the previously reconstructed shift in the North Atlantic Oscillation toward a low pre-20th century mean state and possibly reflects common solar forcing.

              This is the same point I made above.
              The existence of the MWP is an hypothesis.
              That’s all this material says.
              Scientific deniers use an hypothesis as proof.
              Bizarre!

              415

              • #
                The Backslider

                That was all 157 of them, or just your own cherry pick of something that you think supports your denial?

                Sorry sonny, but like most warmists, you are indeed a climate denier.

                93

              • #
                The Backslider

                The existence of the MWP is an hypothesis

                Sure sonny. That’s why the Vikings were able to settle Greenland, with their artifacts still being found in what is now permafrost.

                They later abandoned it as the planet continued to cool, as it has ever since The Holocene Climate Optimum,

                You are aware, are you not, that the overall Holocene temperature trend is downward, not upward? This period has been punctuated by a number of warm periods, including the MWP and the slight warming last century. We are stiLl heading towards an even cooler planet, not warmer.

                Just who is the climate denier?

                20

          • #
            The Backslider

            You really are Michael’s brother, aren’the you? I point you in a direction that will lead you to peer reviewed science but all that you can do is side track.

            You are, like your brother, nothing but a troll.

            73

          • #
            AndyG55

            OMG that link to Wiki is to show the mis-information presented in that low end info source.

            Now if you want to read up on the MWP (and RWP) and actually LEARN something, I suggest to visit here.

            http://www.co2science.org/subject/m/subject_m.php

            The MWP was essentially world wide, and there is nothing your meaningless ranting can do about it.

            [Snip inflammatory]

            45

      • #
        Ted O'Brien

        2007 & 2010?

        00

      • #
        AndyG55

        Its reported on a blog.. Its actually from two very eminent professors.

        Professors who have far more standing a tabloid AGW rag like Nature, and a group of unknowns in a minimalistic pal-review article.

        Get over yourself, get an education, and try to find a real life if you can.

        Is the potato peeling business really that slow at the moment ?

        55

      • #
        Tom

        Numbers, is there a blog left in Australia that you haven’t attempted to invade with your demented communist wrongology? This clown is a school teacher, folks, so bewave if you have kids in Western Queenland where, at least until recently, he has been a contract tax-eater.

        74

      • #
        The Backslider

        That’s a blog.

        We can take it then that you will from now refrain from linking to blogs such as Skeptical Science. I know it’s your favorite, but too bad.

        Do not dare to link to anything other than published and peer reviewed scientific papers and only ones which you actually understand and are able to explain in your own words. Replying with just a link is forbidden. Instead you must state your case in your own words, supplying a link to the science in support of what you say.

        You are also forbidden to link to what are just articles in scientific journals as these are just somebody’s opinion, not science.

        Those are now the rules. Stick to them or I will hound you.

        11

    • #
      AndyG55

      This will actually be a very useful information base.

      http://notrickszone.com/2015/12/23/new-comprehensive-map-by-scientists-confirms-medieval-warm-period-was-real-and-global-climate-models-faulty/#sthash.eLuFwFcy.dpbs

      It will pull together the overwhelming evidence, from all around the world, that there was a period of warming approximate 1000 years ago, that was

      a) Warmer than the current temperatures,

      b) Was essentially worldwide in character.

      Another HUGE nail in the coffin of the farcical AGW conjecture.

      This map shows just how widespread the warm period was.. ESSENTIALLY GLOBAL.

      http://howcanpeoplebesostupid.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/medieval_warm_map.jpg

      Yes, the timing of different studies and regions varies a bit, but that is the nature of science and climate, but there is ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT that there was a WARMER period somewhere around 1000 years ago, and we are still just climbing out of the COLDEST period of the whole of the current 10,000 year interglacial.

      51

  • #

    “Independent” one of the least understood and most misused words around these days.

    I always love seeing IGA using it. “Independent”, independent from what exactly? From Coles and Woolies? The inference being you wouldn’t get as big as them if the opportunity arose? Funny stuff.

    But this is so typical, you hear it all the time from tax sucking alarmists. “Oh that study (fully Govt. funded) was independent” ….. no idea… just no idea..

    41

  • #
    Ted O'Brien

    Well! Well! Well! Now who told her that?

    31

  • #
    PeterS

    In like manner to what Martin Armstrong recently stated with the EU summit meeting, “another victory like that, and we have lost”. Another statement like that from the ABC about how they are “independent” and we might as well say black is white, up is down, left is right, and evil is good. I shake my head at the stupidity of much of the media and the gullibility of the voters.

    21

  • #
    The Backslider

    What are you going to do 1735099 when we get bored with poking fun at your idiocy and decide to all just totally ignore you? We do that, you know?

    44

    • #

      decide to all just totally ignore you?

      Isn’t that what ostriches do?

      312

      • #
        AndyG55

        [Snip inflammatory]

        53

        • #

          You must have a particularly SICK mind to be trolling on sites at this time of year.

          I’d be interested in your definition of “trolling”.
          Wasn’t this blog set up to challenge the alleged orthodoxy?
          I’m challenging the orthodoxy here. What’s the difference?
          As for the time of year – I’m on holidays, so I have the time…..

          Get a life, child-mind. !!!

          Have a Happy Christmas, old mate.

          412

          • #
            The Backslider

            But you have not managed to challenge anything. I have yet to see one remotely scientific challenge, in your own words, on anything whatsoever.

            Please, tell us all something, anything, that you think you know something about. I asked you a question about the oceans up the page. Now there is a proper challenge. Go to it sonny, in your own words, no copy and pasting anything. I want to see what you think you know.

            65

          • #
            AndyG55

            [snip inflammatory]

            64

            • #
              • #
                AndyG55

                [snip inflammatory]

                75

              • #
                AndyG55

                [Snip inflammatory]

                75

              • #
                el gordo

                [snip about snip, sorry]

                62

              • #
                el gordo

                ‘In fact, the ideological affinity between the Green movement and fascism (and especially Nazism), is well established, and has been explored in depth in such books as How Green Were the Nazis? Nature, Environment, and Nation in the Third Reich (2005), by Franz-Josef Brüggemeier, Mark Cioc, and Thomas Zeller.

                ‘As they conclude, “the green policies of the Nazis … demonstrate with brutal clarity that conservationism and environmentalism are not and have never been value-free or inherently benign enterprises”

                Merv Bendle / Quadrant

                43

          • #
            AndyG55

            [snip inflammatory]

            54

        • #
          Bruce of Newcastle

          Numbers trolls for the great victory of the proletariat. He’s only tormenting Jo because he finally got himself banned from the Cat.

          I hear he’s citing that notable scientist (LOL!) John Cook. Here is on of my favourite links concerning the good Mr Cook (for Mr he is).

          Skeptical Science: “[W]e’re all a bunch of leftists”

          Numbers, please remember to call me Dr Bruce when you reply, for a scientist, with a PhD, I am. :mrgreen:

          93

          • #
            PeterS

            I wonder what Turnbull would turn out to be if he took the same test. I would not be surprised if he turned out to have leftist socialist tendencies. After all, he and Rudd are so alike.

            30

          • #
            AndyG55

            Last time I did one of those I ended in the equivalent of the top left purple square.

            Numbers would be in the top left pink square (assuming he could answer the questions for himself)

            43

      • #
        The Backslider

        How about you, in your own words, answer my question up the page directed towards yourself about how CO2 supposedly causes ocean warming. I await with bated breath……

        73

  • #

    à tous Joyeux Noël

    50

    • #
      Annie

      Merci bien Gee Aye. A vous aussi…..says she in her old school French, little practised and forgetting how to produce an accent!

      40

  • #
    doubtingdave

    If you have ever wondered how and why the BBC has been taken over by the champagne socialists and watermelons of the left , its because there are no comercial breaks, so they have to force feed a dumbed down fake reality to their audience via controlling the programming itself, thats why everything from documentaries to ( fake )reality tv and soap opera’s etc has to have a politically correct straight jacket wrapped around it . The onslaught of adverts we get on commercial TV is mainly coming from the “mega” multi nationals plus financial institutions that make up the oligarchy that are responsible for trying to force the totalitarian new world order upon us , and just as in TV adverts where they can convince some that something as mundane as a box of soap powder or some toothpaste, that they manufacture , somehow has almost magical or miraculous properties , they can convince some that CO2 a trace gas that feeds plants , is capable of destroying us all unless we buy in to their socially engineered new serf order .

    32

  • #

    How about you, in your own words, answer my question up the page directed towards yourself about how CO2 supposedly causes ocean warming

    I’m not qualified to explain this.
    This bloke is.
    Read it – you might learn something.

    314

    • #
      AndyG55

      Wow.. the sun warms and wind cools!

      Now answer the question with your know words to show that you actually comprehend one single thing about what you think you are showing.

      93

    • #
      Bruce of Newcastle

      Numbers – The author doesn’t take into account the PDO, which peaked in about 2000. Wind speed in that zone is anticorrelated with the PDO, so that whole temperature rise Minnett reports for the Gulf of California is consistent with the PDO maximum. It’s quite natural.

      Read up on ‘omitted variable bias’ son.

      101

    • #

      If you are not qualified to explain it, explain how you are qualified to identify the people who are.

      Or is it only “He said it, I believe it, and that settles it”?

      92

    • #
      RB

      Read it – you might learn something.

      How about you read it and point out where it explains how CO2 warms the oceans? Warming is described as by solar radiation. Downwelling of LWIR is not mentioned as it can’t even pass through the skin. In fact, that the profile at night and daytime when the ocean is well mixed kind of shows that the extra downwelling LWIR can’t warm the oceans. That energy is absorbed so close to the top most molecules of water that they are evaporated and that energy goes back into the atmosphere.

      You have to be the worst troll to be employed by GetUp!

      93

      • #
        AndyG55

        Come on RB, there is way anyone would actually PAY to have this guy troll.

        He’s empty, trite, and is doing more damage than support for the AGW farce.

        62

      • #
        RB

        Come on RB, there is way anyone would actually PAY to have this guy troll

        If he plays an instrument, yes. Long story.

        I think that he was supposed to refer to this paper that describes how the extra 1W/m2 to be lost by the skin means less energy loss from below the skin.

        10

        • #
          The Backslider

          I think that he was supposed to refer to this paper that describes how the extra 1W/m2 to be lost by the skin means less energy loss from below the skin.

          Looks like a load of crap science to me.

          10

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘I’m not qualified to explain this.’

      We have reached a stage in the debate where putting up stuff you don’t understand will not win brownie points.

      Bruce of Newcastle has it right.

      52

    • #
      The Backslider

      I’m not qualified to explain this

      OK, that’s fine. So then, clearly you are also not qualified to believe it, so don’t.

      What then do you understand that you can explain to us? What is your purpose here, what is the message that you are trying to bring to us.

      Or, do you just believe a whole bunch of stuff that you do not at all understand but it makes you feel good to support “the cause” (this I am almost certain of as I have yet to see you elucidate a single point remotely in the realm of science).

      The sun warms the oceans which warmshould the atmosphere. Please take the time to learn just a little about ocean/atmospheric coupling and you will soon see that CO2 cannot warm the oceans.

      Alarmist CO2 theory dictates that more clouds are formed, which supposedly “traps” more heat (positive feedback) however this ignores the fact that the oceans would cool due to less sunlight (negative feedback).

      The reality is that the warming between 1975 and 1998 was caused by less cloud cover, not CO2. This caused the oceans to warm which in turn warmed the atmosphere. This is all due to the activity of the sun, particularly the influence of cosmic rays on cloud formation. Quite simple stuff sonny.

      31

  • #
    Mike Borgelt

    Folks, Numbers is a troll who used to infest catallaxy files. His handle is his service number from when he was conscripted and went to Vietnam. I’m sorry about that but he’s still a left wing loon.

    65

    • #
      el gordo

      In Defence of Numbers

      ‘In Internet slang, a troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion, often for their own amusement.’

      wiki

      32

    • #
      el gordo

      My client acknowledges all the charges laid against him, but denies he’s a ‘left wing loon.’

      11

  • #
    doubtingdave

    The lead upto Christmas is the time of the year when TV advertising by major companies is at its most desperate and manic , completely insensitive to real people living in desperate and difficult circumstances , some of the worst offenders are the major supermarket chains , in England at the moment one of these supermarkets is running a advert where a fake family of “D” level actors get into a panick because the mother exclaims ” quick the gluten-free so and so’s are coming for dinner ” they then ( with looks of panick on their faces ) dash around the supermarket flapping their arms and stuffing their trolley with every gluten-free product they can find , just about every supermarket advert ends with a view of a huge family dining table straining under the weight of every luxury food that you could imaging , even if Henry the 8th with all six of his wives turned up they would think it a little over the top , meanwhile in the real world , living within our own communities are people such as widowers living on their own too frail to get out and about with only a TV for company , what must they make of these insensitive adverts . So please , don’t put out that mince pie and glass of sherry for Santa , take it instead to a neighbour thats perhaps more in need of some xmas cheer and a gesture of compassion , even if you barely know them because remember a stranger is just a friend you havent met yet . PS Thanks to Jo and David and all commentators for shining a light on the truth all year, a very merry xmas to you all .

    40

    • #
      AndyG55

      Yes, Merry Xmas to all those who would allow themselves to be merry.

      Some people don’t count themselves in that category.

      30

  • #
    manalive

    @ 1735099 at 11:08 am:

    I’m not qualified to explain this.
    This bloke is. Read it – you might learn something.

    LOL, that paper you linked to has nothing to do with GHGs heating the oceans, you should take your own advice and not get your information from articles on the ‘Skeptical Science’ website written by someone who “… is an environmentalist, scuba diver, spearfisherman, kayaker and former police officer [and] has researched climate science, in an amateur capacity, for 4 years …”.

    74

    • #
      manalive

      Incidentally 1735099 whether the MWP was global or not is irrelevant as the post-LIA warming has not been uniformly global but has been enough to cause hysteria in ostensibly sane people.

      43

  • #
    Manfred

    A monumental thank you to Jo and David for this site, an anchor and beacon in the ideological war of the moment, for your sanity, science and reason. To all you fellow pilgrims journeying on this site, the thoughtful and flippant, the jocular and caustic, the provocative and the knowledgeable, you remain as always, a veritable source of education and insight. Thank you.
    Merry Christmas one and all.

    90

  • #
    AndyG55

    If numbers was genuinely concerned he would move to Siberia, and live without fossil fuels.

    That would make his life even more empty.. he would love it.

    52

  • #
    Krudd Gillard of the Commondebt of Australia

    ABC = Always Boosting Communism.

    51

  • #
    Victor Ramirez

    Numbers is bored given political sites have low activity at this time of year so seems to have found here a place with new minds to taunt. Try not to let him get under your skin as debate is impossible and more like banging your head against a brick wall. Hopefully he reads a few posts. If we’re lucky he’ll move onto WUWT or Climate Etc. where he can display his awesome understanding of climate science to new audiences. /sarc

    51

  • #
    Glen Michel

    I have a Weihenstephaner wheat beer and a dozen freshly opened oysters all at the ready.Get me in the mood for further indulgences tomorrow.Merry Xmas to all!

    10

  • #
    Victor Ramirez

    I’m willing to give Mx Guthrie the benefit of the doubt and see what she can do to deliver a dividend back to her ultimate bosses. I’m sure there’ll be opportunities throughout 2016 to review her appointment in light of ABC performance and any changes she delivers.

    10

  • #
    pat

    happy Christmas/seasons greetings to everyone.
    a oouple of laughs seem appropriate:

    can’t pass up this PIC of that climate dancing fool, Christiana Figueres:

    22 Dec: ClimateChangeNews: Alex Pashley: Paris climate summit’s best pics in tweets
    After UN climate chief Christiana Figueres called for followers’ top photos from COP21, here’s what people tweeted in:
    Tweet by Figueres: Invite everyone to tweet favorite @COP21 photo. Here mine (PIC): dancing with @ArchbishopThabo at beginning of the COP
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2015/12/22/paris-climate-summits-best-pics-in-tweets/

    I’ve never driven a car in my life, but I still considered this hilarious. love how only those who can afford to buy and maintain a vintage car will be allowed to have cars!

    23 Dec: Marketwatch: WSJ: Dan Neil: Private car ownership is on the road to becoming a rarity
    In 25 years, the only people owning cars will be hobbyists, hot rodders and Flat Earthers
    But what if, like condos, automobiles could be shared? It’s one of life’s first lessons—how to share toys, parents, rooms, feelings. But as little consumers grow into adults, they forget the joys of selflessness.
    That’s about to change. And I don’t mean the collaborative consumerism we see around us—peer-to-peer transportation like Uber—which is symbolic and transitional, lasting only until automation happens, at
    which point we can get rid of the wetware. And by wetware, I mean us.
    Within a generation, automobiles will be endowed with what’s known as Level 4 autonomy—full self-driving artificial intelligence for cars—which will not so much change the game as burn down the casino…
    Personal-vehicle ownership isn’t going away. Some people will own and cherish cars. But those people and their cars will be considered classics. Rates of ownership will decline, an artifact of an era of
    hyperprosperity and reckless glut. Twenty-five years from now, the only people still owning cars will be hobbyists, hot rodders and Flat Earth dissenters. Everyone else will be happy to share.
    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/get-ready-to-share-not-just-the-road-but-the-car-2015-12-14

    30

  • #
    pat

    homepage of Climate Change News:

    Responding to Climate Change – RTCC
    Responding to Climate Change Limited (RTCC) was founded by James Ramsey in 2002 and its mission is to raise awareness about climate change. It is a not-for-profit organization and it is an official Observer to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC), the Convention for Biological Diversity (CBD), and the United Nations Convention to Combat Desertification (UNCCD). It holds “Special Advisory Status” with The United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) as well as officially supporting UNFCCC in its outreach programme…
    RTCC, although independent, is entirely funded by governments, international businesses, intergovernmental agencies, research institutes and major donor organizations. Partners include, the governments of Morocco, France, Mexico, South Africa, Ecuador, Brazil, Denmark, Norway Sweden, UK, Canada, United States, Germany, Belgium, Switzerland and many others, as well as the World Bank, the Global Environment Facility (GEF), the Climate Investment Funds (CIFs) and UN Habitat.
    ***Currently RTCC is officially acting on behalf of the Government of Morocco to raise funds for it to host COP22 in Marrakech.
    http://www.rtcc.org/

    CAGW political??? nah:

    23 Dec: ClimateChangeNews: Alex Pashley: The next generation of climate influencers
    (SECOND ON THE LIST IS)
    Larissa Waters is an Australian senator and deputy leader of the Greens. In the country’s polarised political scene, she holds the Liberal party’s feet to the fire on renewable energy targets, coal mine expansion and carbon commitments. The Queensland lawmaker, 38, caused uproar earlier this year after probing if then-leader and Catholic Tony Abbott would take heed of Pope Francis’ moral call to act on human-induced climate change…
    (LARISSA IS FOLLOWED BY ELON MUSK – WOW! AND LAST LISTED IS)
    Catherine McKenna is Canada’s new environment and climate change minister. Seeking to overhaul the country’s image after it turned laggard under the previous Harper government…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2015/12/23/the-next-generation-of-climate-influencers/

    20

  • #
    pat

    this is not journalism:

    23 Dec: Guardian: Shalailah Medhora: Abbot Point coal port open to challenge over tugboat harbour left out of EIS
    The federal environment minister, Greg Hunt, confirms harbour had not been considered in the environmental impact statement for the terminal expansion
    The plans to build a tugboat harbour were not part of the environmental impact statement (EIS) undertaken by the federal government and could mean that the entire project needs to be referred back to the commonwealth for reassessment.
    “This question of the tugboat harbour was put forward by one of the environment groups. It was asserted as if it were a fact and that it could be slipped through without approval. That’s false,” the federal environment minister told ABC Radio on Tuesday.
    “If such a proposal were put forward then it would have to be in accordance with state and federal law. And not to do so would in fact be an action that would be punishable under the federal law.”
    A spokeswoman for Hunt confirmed to Guardian Australia that the tugboat harbour had not been included in the EIS.
    “What was put in front of us, we assessed on the basis of law,” the spokeswoman said. “There is no such proposal from the Queensland government at this stage.”
    Excluding the tugboat harbour could open the entire EIS up to a legal challenge, the Environmental Defenders Office in Queensland has warned.
    “We will be looking very carefully at the lawfulness of the approval [granted by Hunt],” its chief executive officer and solicitor, Jo Braggs, told Guardian Australia…
    The international credit agency Moody’s has threatened to downgrade the debit accrued by the Abbot Point coal terminal to junk status.
    Moody’s analyst, Mary Anne Low, said “severe pressure” on the coal industry meant there was a higher probability that contracts would not be renewed or would end early…
    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/23/abbot-point-coal-port-open-to-challenge-over-tugboat-harbour-left-out-of-eis

    10

  • #
    pat

    23 Dec: Washington Examiner: John Siciliano: Over half the country urges court to stop Obama climate plan
    More than half the country’s state attorneys general urged federal judges Wednesday to halt the Clean Power Plan, the climate rules at the center of President Obama’s climate change agenda.
    Twenty-seven states, led by West Virginia and Texas, renewed their push to stay the far-reaching emission rules, which they argue will raise energy costs and harm families if allowed to move forward…
    The states are suing the administration in the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals to terminate the regulations based on claims it is unconstitutional and illegal under U.S. environmental law…
    A 17-state coalition led by New York and California are arguing in defense of the climate rules…
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2579017/

    are the Attorneys General mis-reading the public???
    Reuters/Ipsos poll is claiming:

    22 Dec: Reuters: Megan Cassella: After Paris accord, most U.S. Republicans back action on climate
    A majority of U.S. Republicans ***who had heard of the international climate deal in Paris said they support working with other countries to curb global warming and were willing to take steps to do so, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll on Tuesday…
    Sixty-eight percent, meanwhile, said they either somewhat or strongly agree that they are willing to take individual steps to help the environment, such as cutting down on air-conditioning or buying a more efficient car…
    Republicans surveyed were split on whether they would support a candidate who believes climate change is primarily man-made, with 30 percent saying they would vote for such a candidate and 27 percent saying they would not…
    Ninety-one percent of Democrats approve of the United States taking action…
    The survey of 2,063 likely voters from all parties was conducted on Dec. 15-21, with a credibility interval of 2.5 to 5.3 percentage points.
    (Additional reporting by Timothy Gardner; Editing by Caren Bohan and Richard Chang)
    http://news.yahoo.com/paris-accord-most-u-republicans-back-action-climate-221106867.html

    ***they are talking about Republicans “who had heard of the international climate deal in Paris” which in the US might not be a significant number. we’ll see.

    all polls are up on Ipsos website, but not this one. presumably, it will be posted eventually.

    10

  • #
    pat

    this one is up on the Ipsos website:

    22 Dec: Ipsos: Ipsos Global @dvisor: Global Warming Issue Unites World Opinion: 82% View Climate Change as Major Threat
    The full report is free of charge and may be downloaded by clicking the link to the right.
    The survey instrument is conducted monthly in 24 countries around the world via the Ipsos Online Panel system. The countries reporting herein are Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, China, France, Great Britain, Germany, Hungary, India, Israel, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Poland, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Turkey and the United States of America.
    For the results of the survey presented herein, an international sample of 18,584 adults aged 18-64 in the US, Israel and Canada, and age 16-64 in all other countries, were interviewed. Approximately 1000+ individuals participated on a country by country basis via the Ipsos Online Panel with the exception of Argentina, Belgium, Chile, Colombia, Hungary, Israel, Mexico, Peru, Poland, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, South Korea, Sweden, Thailand and Turkey, where each have a sample approximately 500+. The precision of Ipsos online polls are calculated using a credibility interval with a poll of 1,000 accurate to +/- 3.5 percentage points and of 500 accurate to +/- 5.0 percentage points.
    http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=7093

    the polling for this one ended 4 December, but we’re told this poll was done “on the heels of the 2015 United Nations Climate Change Conference held in Paris”.

    questions & answers seem ridiculous:

    Report: Global Warming Issue Unites World Opinion: 82% View Climate Change as Major Threat
    On the heels of the 2015 United Nations Climate Change Conference held in Paris, Ipsos polled citizens around the world…
    Q Is There Evidence of Temperature Increase?
    Seven in ten (70% ) say there is solid evidence that the average temperature on earth has been getting warmer…
    Q Is Reducing Emissions Possible Within Ten Years?
    …However, the majority (59%) disagree that it is practical and feasible to almost completely eliminate the use of oil and gas in the next ten years…
    These are the findings of the Global @dvisor Wave 76 (G@76), an Ipsos survey conducted between November 20th and December 4th.
    The survey instrument is conducted monthly in 24 countries around the world via the Ipsos Online Panel system…
    http://www.ipsos-na.com/download/pr.aspx?id=15176

    20

  • #
    Dave

    .
    The ABC ran this story in mid 2014

    They broadcast this 11 years after farmers lost millions of tonnes of soil into the Bass Strait!

    The damage was huge!

    The federal government paid to remove weeping willows from river banks!
    They paid for re-vegetation of native species only and fencing from stock!

    WOW! The natives didn’t grow quick enough to stabilise the banks previously held in place by weeping willows paid for by the government in earlier years to prevent erosion!

    Now Australia has to rethink this GREEN only native plants allowed!

    No problem with cattle, rabbits, foxes, camels, pigs, rats etc plus the hundreds of other introduced animals – BUT do not EVER plant an introduced species!

    It seems adaption to our modern world by the GREENS is a narrow minded attitude of Natives only, let the Cape Otway Koalas spread until they eat their way out of the habitat!

    Our current crop of scientists is actually killing the country.

    We need introduced species of plants to help change the fire dangers of increased CO2 on plant growth! Deciduous trees are ideal in many areas. Warms the the earth in winter and provides good mulch in huge amounts!

    The ABC is totally ignorant of any science in mitigation of CO2 increase – and it is not temperature that is causing bush fires, property destruction or loss of life!

    It is the action of ignorant followers of a GREEN cult called CAGW or Global Warmers!

    50

    • #
      el gordo

      In the old days before Europeans arrived the gum trees would fall in the river and the flood plains were enormous.

      10

  • #
    Egor TheOne

    The AlpgreensBC needs to be abolished , and its Marxist Group Thinkers can get real jobs , ones not subject to taxpayer funding .
    It’s a brave new world !

    Merry Christmas !

    20

  • #
    Michel Lasouris

    ABC is not a state broadcaster, it’s “independent” says new boss Ms Guthrie. O’Really?

    Joanne, Is that O’Reilly…or Oh Really?
    See, we are paying attention, even if we are somewhat replete with Christmas Cheer! Happy Christmas to you both, and thank you most sincerely for keeping us all well informed, and giving us that nice warm feeling that we are not alone, but a member of a highly intelligent albeit small cohort that recognises the truth and will battle the cant! Kind regards Mitch

    20

  • #
    pat

    update: Ipsos/Reuters still haven’t posted the Republicans/Paris report on their website.
    Reuters, with their Point Carbon/Carbon Pulse propaganda, are clearly CAGW players, but IPSOS is no different, it would seem:

    PDF: 50 pages: UN Global Compact: IPSOS 2014 CSR (Corporate Social Responsibility) report
    Message from Didier Truchot, Chairman & Chief Executive Officer
    One of our first actions was to join the United Nations Global Compact (UNGC), becoming the first global market research company to do so, and we have remained a continuous active member of the UNGC since that time.
    The Ipsos approach to CSR incorporates three critical elements – social, societal and environmental…
    During the last year we have seen our GHG emissions fall by 9.5% and the GHG emissions per headcount have also fallen from 4.8 to 4.2 tonnes per head. This has been primarily due to a lower amount of Business Travel around the world with a decrease of 6% of the volume of the CO₂ emissions…
    Ipsos continues to believe that it is critical for all companies to address their CO2 emissions. Since emissions surged in the late 19th Century some 1900Giga Tonnes (Gt) of CO2, and 1000Gt of other greenhouse gases have already been emitted; leaving less than 1000Gt of CO2 left to emit before locking the world into dangerous temperature rises of more than 2oC. International talks in Paris, in 2015, could see the world’s nations agree to limit global warming to a rise of no more than 2oC…
    The United Nations have already said that CO2 emissions must be zero by 2070 to prevent climate disaster and that ‘negative emissions’ will be needed, globally, by the second half of this century.
    Ipsos also believes that a critical part of that sustainability is to enable education for all…
    As a result, in our Annual Report last year, Ipsos announced that it was looking to create the ‘Ipsos Foundation’ whose primary mission would be “A global outreach programme to support, develop and implement the education of disadvantaged children and youth worldwide”…
    TAKING RESPONSIBILITY TOWARDS THE ENVIRONMENT AND FUTURE GENERATIONS…etc
    https://www.unglobalcompact.org/system/attachments/cop_2015/146541/original/CSR_Report_27012015.pdf?1426686953

    exploiting the children again, IPSOS?

    13 March: Nine in Ten 8th Graders Agree that Climate Change is Real and Human Activity Significantly Contributes to Climate Change
    Driving Cars and Cutting down Trees Seen as Top Contributors to Climate Change
    New York, NY – Eighth graders across the United States are not only widely aware of the terms ‘global warming’ and ‘climate change,’ but also near universally agree (94%) that climate change is real, according to a new study conducted by Ipsos Public Affairs on behalf of ***Avaaz. Further, over eight in ten (85%) agree that human activity significantly contributes to climate change…
    These are findings from an Ipsos poll conducted February 13 – 19, 2015. For the survey, a sample of 1,002 children currently in 8th grade was interviewed ***online…
    http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=6792

    10

  • #
    pat

    and how can we forget this unbelievable one from May 2015?

    IPSOS: Establishing the social licence to operate large scale solar facilities in Australia:
    insights from social research for industry
    Support is strongest for domestic solar installations, with 87% of respondents indicating that they were in favour of roof-mounted solar panels on homes.
    Support for large scale solar facilities is slightly lower, with slightly more than three quarters (78%) indicating that they were somewhat in favour (34%) or strongly in favour (44%) of these facilities. Just 5% were opposed to large scale solar facilities…
    ***This project was commissioned by the Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA) and involved assistance and feedback from a number of renewable energy sector stakeholders. We thank all those who provided their time and expertise.
    http://www.ipsos.com.au/Ipsos_docs/Solar-Report_2015/Ipsos-ARENA_SolarReport.pdf

    10

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘The federal member for the Queensland electorate of Dawson, George Christensen, rejected Professor Steffen’s claims, saying the coal exported by Adani’s mine and port would add to India’s emissions and not Australia’s.

    “Abbott Point adds nothing to Australia’s carbon dioxide emissions. To state the bleeding obvious the coal is being exported out of Abbott point coal terminal it’s not being burnt at Abbott point, it’s being burnt by another country – India,” Mr Christensen said.

    “We’re not responsible for Australian goods that are exported overseas and that are then used to produce carbon dioxide emissions.”

    ‘Professor Steffen responded: “It’s one atmosphere, one planet, one climate, it doesn’t matter where the emissions come from, they add to climate change.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australias-carbon-emissions-jump-in-2015–20151225-glv017.html#ixzz3vN3Clm1D
    Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

    10

    • #
      AndyG55

      Again, one of those totally ill-educated, child-minded, nonsense photos of STEAM coming from cooling towers.

      It really is PATHETIC !!!!

      21

      • #
        el gordo

        This is equally pathetic.

        ‘Professor Adam Scaife, head of long-range prediction at the Met Office, said: “This forecast suggests that by the end of 2016 we will have seen three record, or near-record years in a row for global temperatures.”

        ‘The Met Office doesn’t expect this run of back-to-back records continue indefinitely, but the current situation shows how global warming can combine with smaller, natural fluctuations to push our climate to levels of warmth which are unprecedented in the data records.’

        UK Met

        10

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘Coalition backbenchers have drawn up plans to split the ABC into separate urban and rural arms.’

    Sid Maher / Oz

    00