JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks

The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper


Advertising

micropace


GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



Archives

US Presidential candidates ranked for independent thinking and gullibility on climate science

How many Presidential candidates are susceptible to groupthink, scare campaigns and low-base science agitprop? Thanks to Seth Borenstein, Michael Mann & Andrew Dessler we can rank them according to their ability to resist profoundly unscientific propaganda like “there is a consensus”.

Ted Cruz is clearly the best at holding his own in the independent thinker stakes.  Ben Carson and Donald Trump do well. But poor Hillary Clinton doesn’t stand a chance against the onslaught of junk graphs, hyperbolic claims, and inane bumper-sticker cliches.

US presidential Candidates, climate science, groupthink

Those who fall for the consensus argument are in no position to run a nation.  Firstly it’s profoundly unscientific — we don’t vote for the laws of science; scientific theories are either true or not true regardless of opinions. Secondly, it only takes ten minutes of independent searching to find that there is no consensus among scientists as a broad group, anyway. There is a consensus among various definitions of certified climate scientists, but not among meteorologists , geoscientists and engineers or other hard science areas.

As I’ve said before, skeptics outrank and outnumber believers, they make planes fly, find mineral deposits, and walked on the moon. Believers produce climate models that don’t work. If climate scientists were good scientists, the first people they’d convince would be the physicists, mathematicians, geologists and engineers.

Most readers of skeptical blogs (who chose to respond to surveys and list their qualifications in  comments^) have hard science degrees. Dan Kahan conducted a survey of 1,500 people and found people who knew more about maths and science were more likely to be skeptical. In other words, skeptics were better informed about science^. If we had to name a list of skeptics versus believers, the skeptics number 31,000, yet there is no list of named scientists who believe that comes close — let alone a list of 300,000 which would imply some truth to the statement that the science is settled, and the world’s scientists agree.

The famous 97% consensus is really a 0.3% consensus.

See real scientists review climate science with thousands of peer reviewed papers. NIPCC report.

Climate Depot, Pat

 

 

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.2/10 (94 votes cast)
US Presidential candidates ranked for independent thinking and gullibility on climate science, 9.2 out of 10 based on 94 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/ojl9k2q

160 comments to US Presidential candidates ranked for independent thinking and gullibility on climate science

  • #
    pat

    COP21 THIS:

    22 Nov: Daily Mail: AP: Winter storm Bella dumps 16 inches of snow on the Midwest in the heaviest recorded November snowstorm for a hundred years
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3328997/Winter-storm-Bella-dumps-16-inches-snow-Midwest.html

    22 Nov: Chicago Tribune: Marwa Eltagouri: Season’s first snow is Chicago’s largest November snowfall in 120 years
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-winter-weather-1122-20151121-story.html

    211

  • #
    pat

    CLARIFICATION: Ed King in his ClimateChangeNews piece posted above – “Paris climate summit should start a day early, say officials” – references Winnie Byanyima’s funding amounts demanded by Oxfam for ADAPTATION only, NOT MITIGATION, which I knew could be misinterpreted, as it is at Junk Science (see further links below):

    JunkScience: Greens dramatically scale back payola demands for Paris climate deal
    $35 billion per year by 2020 or no deal.
    ClimateChangeNews.com reports:
    http://junkscience.com/2015/11/greens-dramatically-scale-back-payola-demands-for-paris-climate-deal/

    Ed King’s original Oxfam piece:

    20 Nov: ClimateChangeNews: Ed King: Oxfam chief issues Paris warning: No deal without adaptation funding
    Winnie Byanyima says Oxfam will not “clap for the sake of clapping” in Paris2. It will judge the COP21 deal on how it protects Africa’s most vulnerable.
    Oxfam’s executive director has warned rich countries they need to radically boost their finance offer for the Paris climate summit to be a success.
    Winnie Byanyima specifically wants commitments to bolster support for coping with extreme weather and rising sea levels to US$35 billion a year by 2020, $50bn by 2025 and $100bn by 2030.2
    “Without ADAPTATION funding there isn’t a deal,”2 she says in an interview with Climate Home, insisting contributions have to come from public funds and in the form of grants, not loans…
    Countries classed as developed under 1992 UN guidelines include the US, Japan, Australia and EU-28. All say they cannot commit to specific long term funding goals, although discussions on mobilising $100 billion of climate finance by 2020 are ongoing…
    Like the author Naomi Klein, a powerful influence behind the Guardian’s Keep it in the ground campaign against fossil fuels, Byanyima sees Paris as a massive chance to reshape the global economy…
    “I have been in correspondence with her on this… she shines a light – the current economic model has failed us,” Byanyima says…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2015/11/20/oxfam-chief-issues-paris-warning-no-deal-without-adaptation-funding/

    to be continued.

    161

  • #
    pat

    this document makes clear $100 billion/year remains the target (in fact, Oxfam wants a lot more than 100bn/year, but that is another story):

    PDF: 5 pages: Oxfam: THE ROADMAP TO $100BN/YEAR BY 2020: A FOUNDATION FOR SUCCESS IN PARIS
    https://www.oxfam.org/sites/www.oxfam.org/files/file_attachments/the_roadmap_to_100bn_per_year_by_2020_-_a_foundation_for_success_in_paris.pdf

    I have a feeling Ed King knew he was muddying the funding waters when he wrote the Winnie Byanyima piece:

    LinkedIn: Edward King
    Summary: Experienced and skilled journalist, editor and radio producer with a keen interest in international affairs and environmental issues. In 2011 I launched Climate Home (formerly known as RTCC), which now gets 300,000 visits a month, and is one of the leading sources of information on international climate politics. Previously I was a BBC Radio live programmes producer on 5Live Sport, and a reporter for the BBC sport website.
    https://www.linkedin.com/in/edwardjohnking

    LinkedIn: Climate Home News (aka RTCC aka Climate Change News)
    RTCC is a not-for-profit organization and is an official Observer to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) the Convention for Biological Diversity (CBD) and the United Nations Convention to Combat Desertification (UNCCD). It holds “Special Advisory Status” with The United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) as well as officially supporting UNFCCC in its outreach programme.

    60

  • #
    Manfred

    COP21 is THE ONE BIG PUSH of the moment. There are other UN ‘pushes’, for example on global trade agreements and on global health. The UN goal, the goal of The Agenda is to have installed in all but name a bound, tied and gagged globe by 2030, ripe for UN ascension to active global governance.

    Pat quotes above #27:

    The United Nations will tell us to consume less, while leaving behind a carbon footprint that could choke a horse.

    As many will know, I have pointed this out here several times. This is no conspiracy theory, but the quiet and relentless eco-marxist creation. Occasionally one gets a glimpse, when Christiana Figueres UNFCCC tells us about the ‘mission’, when we see the UNEP pontificate about divestment, and when the Pontiff himself prattles about global governance after opening this current session of the UN General Assembly in New York.

    The marxist dance routine of the hammering down on prosperity under the guise of ‘carbon reduction’, of lowering the prosperity of all by unfettered, kollectivly sanctioned ‘looting’ is their death knell. Unfortunately there is fallout in the interim. This is one of the UN post 2015 millennium goals. That governments of the free world apparently sign away their freedom and ‘contribute’ to a UN Green Fund, pure eco-marxist redistribution by any other name, that they indulge in the guilt woven intellectually bankrupt justification of CAGW beggars rationality. The monochromatic clowns that are progressive politicians lost the smell, the feel and the taste for freedom. They have become insensate. A tasteless central diet of bread and water will I imagine do much to rectify their insight into their sensory loss.

    Goal 28.
    We commit to making fundamental changes in the way that our societies produce and consume goods and services.

    Goal 39.
    (implemetation). The scale and ambition of the new Agenda requires a revitalized Global Partnership to ensure its implementation…It will facilitate an intensive global engagement in support of implementation of all the Goals and targets, bringing together Governments, the private sector, ‘civil society’… (UN code for UN consultation accredited NGO’s and other actors tied up with UN – important to remember that this UN term is quite distinct and a deliberate conflation with the term ‘civilised society’)see ECOSOC, …the United Nations system and other actors and mobilizing all available resources.

    Transforming our world: the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development
    ‘The 17 Sustainable Development Goals and 169 targets which we are announcing today demonstrate the scale and ambition of this new universal Agenda. They seek to build on the Millennium Development Goals and complete what they did not achieve‘.

    United Nations A/69/L.85 General Assembly; Distr.: Limited. 12 August 2015

    90

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      The United Nations will tell us to consume less, while leaving behind a carbon footprint that could choke a horse.

      Interestingly they’re now talking about burning trash, plain old garbage, to produce energy. In the same breath they talk about how it’s going to reduce carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuels. I saw it on my TV screen last night and was flabbergasted just before switching to Netflix in disgust to watch another couple of episodes of the original 1968 Star Trek.

      To be honest I think there are some fuels in there somewhere alright but not where they think. :-(

      Needless to say, Star Trek was much more rewarding than the blather from all our self styled experts on carbon dioxide.

      140

      • #
        Dennis

        Fuels such as Helium-3 which is in abundance in Moon soil, what the Chinese refer to as the perfect fuel and what several nations are working on for mining and processing into a liquified form on the Moon. There are many Google references.

        50

    • #
      Dennis

      Manfred, I first heard about the New World Order agendas listening to ABC Radio National during the 1970s when they broadcast a series on the subject. I purchased a copy of the transcript which I still have.

      When I attempted to discuss it with a state cabinet minister he told me it was “nonsense”.

      90

      • #
        Manfred

        Hard to fathom is the reticence, indeed the flat out denial shown by those in power and in the media that The UN Agenda lies at the motivational heart of the manufactured ‘climate change’ (UN definition) hysteria.

        The doyen of the Green UN Maurice Strong stated:

        “Frankly, we may get to the point where the only way of saving the world will be for industrial civilization to collapse.”

        Parroted by Christiana Figueres (UNFCCC),

        “This is probably the most difficult task we have ever given ourselves, which is to intentionally transform the economic development model, for the first time in human history.”

        Perhaps the truth is too unpleasant, too awkward and so obviously undemocratic that it is a bridge too far for most. Whatever, the uncomfortable reality seems that the politicians of the very near future will find themselves to be little more than dancing heads on a global stage. The dancing heads may well be elected nationally, but of the global stage and the grand theatrical play itself, these will rest safely for a while at least in the hands of an unelected global elite, until the populous at large decides they’ve been hoodwinked like never before.

        At that point, it could get quite interesting.

        50

    • #
      Dennis

      Manfred, I first heard about the New World Order agendas listening to ABC Radio National during the 1970s when they broadcast a series on the subject. I purchased a copy of the transcript which I still have.

      When I attempted to discuss it with a state cabinet minister he told me it was “nonsense”.

      40

  • #
    pat

    23 Nov: The Hindu: India hits out at Kerry for terming it a ‘challenge’ at Paris meet

    “It is in a way unfair to say that India will be a challenge. It is actually not doing justice to India,” Union Environment Minister Prakash Javadekar told PTI…
    “When you are doing a global arrangement, every country will put forth its issues. We have to take consensus along. India is always is on the side of consensus. We are proactively helping to bring consensus. We are not naysayers, but helping bring consensus. It is not about compromising,” Mr. Javadekar said. “….But our firm belief is Paris will be under the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) and with all its principles like CBDR, historical responsibility, polluter to pay and equity. All are embedded in the new Paris agreement.”
    While the developed world has been looking at increased emission cuts from developing countries, the latter — including India — have sought common but differentiated responsibility. Shorn of jargon, it means that the developed world has been the prime polluter since its early lead in industrialisation and stays way ahead in emissions per capita to this day, meaning that it cannot expect nations now industrialising to forget this skew.
    http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/paris-climate-change-summit-india-hits-out-at-kerry-for-terming-it-a-challenge-at-paris-meet/article7905442.ece

    19 Nov: BusinessStandardIndia: Nitin Sethi: The developed world should practice what it preaches: Prakash Javadekar
    JAVADEKAR: The road-map for finance is for ensuring predictable, scalable and new finance. The Overseas Development Assistance finance or the existing OECD finance you just cannot double account that to call it climate finance. This (our demand) is not for India. It is for the entire developing world. It is an issue of strengthening the hands of developing world to take more action…
    SETHI: The developed world is asking for disinvestment in coal. Recently OECD has made a decision along those lines. Will
    India agree to something of this nature in the Paris agreement?
    JAVADEKAR: Any un-natural restriction on natural growth of developing world is unacceptable. If someone is putting restrictions on India or any developing country it is unacceptable. You (the developed world) have used coal for centuries, you have polluted the world and suddenly you wake up and tell us – you don’t use coal…
    Now if you see Germany is shifting from nuclear to coal. How can you (the developed world) practice one thing and preach something else…
    SETHI: On the Long term Goal. We have agreed to the goal of keeping temperature rise under 2 degree Celsius but other countries are talking of phrases like de-carbonisation etc. What are Indian concerns with such phrases?
    ***JAVADEKAR: Decarbonisation or carbon-neutral are new concepts. Bringing on new items on the agenda in Paris will ensure basically that Paris fails. We have always said this time a major shift is happening from the Kyoto Protocol. That was about action only from developed world…
    http://wap.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/the-developed-world-should-practice-what-it-preaches-prakash-javadekar-115111901405_1.html

    91

  • #
    pat

    Fabius busy twisting BRICS arms, though little seems to have been achieved!

    21 Nov: Reuters: India backs 2 degree global warming limit – French ministry source
    PARIS (Reuters) – Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi clearly backs the goal of limiting global warming to no more than 2 degrees Celsius from pre-industrial levels, a source close to French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said on Saturday…
    Fabius, who will chair the conference, has embarked on a three-day tour to make sure big emerging nations are on board. He was in India on Friday and will be in South Africa on Sunday before heading to Brazil on Monday…
    http://news.yahoo.com/india-backs-2-degree-global-warming-limit-french-160908987.html

    22 Nov: SABC South Africa: France says SA key to a successful climate agreement
    South Africa will “help tremendously” to secure a global climate control agreement in Paris next month, French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said after meeting President Jacob Zuma on Saturday.
    “The words President Zuma said to me are very positive,” he told a press conference in Pretoria…
    Fabius said South Africa was important because it currently chaired the “very important” G77 plus China bloc of developing nations, because of its membership of the African Union, and because it had hosted the COP17 climate conference in Durban in 2011.
    That was where developed and developing nations had agreed to negotiate an all-inclusive climate control deal by 2015 to replace the Kyoto Protocol which had only committed some developed nations to curb emissions of their greenhouse gases…
    That was the reason he had decided to visit South Africa to meet Zuma on the eve of the conference, he said. On Friday, he had met Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and on Sunday he would meet Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff…
    All three countries were important to the outcome and so French President Francois Hollande and he had thought it was a good thing to visit the three countries and leaders to hear their views “and discuss a few items to ensure everything will be prepared to have a success in Paris”…
    ***He had also “reminded” Zuma that France was also bidding for the expected contract to build a fleet of nuclear-powered power plants in South Africa.
    France is one of several countries bidding for the contract though many analysts and commentators believe that Russia has the edge.
    http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/dc8276804aab89c8bd46bda65ed2c195/France-says-SA-key-to-a-successful-climate-agreement-20151122

    111

  • #
    pat

    23 Nov: UK Daily Mail: AFP: India seeks ‘climate justice’ for poor nations at Paris talks
    Prakash Javadekar called on industrialised countries to commit to more stringent targets to free up “carbon space” for the developing world to generate emissions as a necessary byproduct of growth…
    “We want climate justice for the billions of poor of this world,” the environment minister told AFP in New Delhi, adding that the burden for curbing emissions should lie with developed economies.
    “India and the developing world has taken more than their fair share (of responsibility) and the developed world has taken much less than their fair share, much less than their capacity,” Javadekar said.
    India will push for a ‘polluter pays’ policy in Paris, he added, a principle whereby polluting countries bear the cost of the environmental damage they cause…
    It argues stricter emissions targets would compromise efforts to boost living standards of more than a quarter of its 1.2 billion population which lives in poverty.
    Javadekar also called on wealthy countries to support the developing world in dealing with the effects of climate change, including the increasing frequency of floods, drought and erratic monsoons.
    “The developed world needs to walk their talk on finance and technology. Technology brings the solutions… It has to be made available at an affordable cost,” he said…
    But India points out that it needs billions of dollars just to reach its current goal of 175,000 megawatts of green energy by 2022, up from 30,000 at the moment…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-3329940/India-seeks-climate-justice-poor-nations-Paris-talks.html

    23 Nov: Daijiworld: IANS: Rajendra Shende: Demolishing the differentiation risk of climate terrorism in Paris
    The climate summit too is threatened by ongoing offensive by developed countries on well-accepted global principle of Common But Differentiated Responsibility (CBDR). Risk of uprooting of carefully nurtured heritage of environmental diplomacy that preserves global ecosystem – our lifeline – is looming large.
    The series of pre-COP21 high-level meetings ended last week without coming close to any meaningful convergence. Environmental experts and the negotiators from developing countries believe that the way extremists in the past have cold heartedly distorted and even demolished World Heritage sites inscribed by UNESCO, there is similar risk from developed countries closing in on Paris to begin thrashing the principle of CBDR…
    CBDR is not just an intellectual notion or a way to sympathize with poor nations to ensure their participation in the solution though they were not part of the problem. It is the way to correct the past wrongs, ensuring justice and equity…
    The 1972 Stockholm conference baptized CBRD into an outcome document that included “the applicability of standards which are valid for the most advanced countries but which may be inappropriate and of unwarranted social cost for the developing countries”…
    In the United Nations Earth Summit of 1992, finally, CBDR was graduated into Principle 7 of the Rio Declaration signed by all the nations of the world. It stated in stark and unambiguous terms that, “In view of the different contributions to global environmental degradation, States have common but differentiated responsibilities”…ETC
    http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_disp.asp?n_id=369478

    [Pat's comments moved from another thread - Jo]

    81

  • #
    RoHa

    Meh. Before every US election, those of us who live outside the US look at the candidates and say, “What a bunch of sleazebags, idiots, and utter raving loonies. Whichever one gets elected, he will be a total disaster.”

    After every election we are proved right.

    172

  • #
    me@home

    So Hilary is the least understanding of the lot or just the most dishonest?

    261

    • #
      PeterS

      If Hilary does get elected you know for sure the US voters have lost it completely, and they only have themselves to blame.

      260

      • #
        jorgekafkazar

        If Hitlary gets elected, it will mean the End of the World is approaching. Voters will have to rise from the dead to elect her.

        130

        • #

          The dead vote frequently in Obama’s home town of Chicago. Oddly enough, the dead seem to prefer Democratic candidates over Republicans. I guess the dead favor dead ideas …

          It’s almost certain that Clinton will be the Democratic nominee and will loose. Every one of the Republican candidates beats her in head to head poles, largely because few can trust anything she says. I disagree with Roha that they are all idiots. Certainly, there are many among them, but if you dig into the Republican field there are some reasonable ideas, despite MSM misrepresentation, and offers a far better group of potential leaders then the Democratic field, which today consists of a die hard socialist, the worst Secretary of State imaginable with delusions of a coronation and an unknown who’s only chance is if Clinton gets indicted sooner than later.

          Of the outsiders, Trump has the upper hand and among the insiders, I would give Rubio the edge. A Trump/Rubio ticket would likely run away with the election and would be a good change of pace compared to Obama’s reckless fecklessness and inability to lead either domestically or internationally. What’s most surprising to me is how well Trump continues to do despite the strong MSM bias against him and the timorous response of the Republican party apparatus towards his candidacy. I suspect that many judge politicians by those who are against them and given who’s against Trump, he scores well.

          70

        • #
          Bulldust

          I was think Hilarity… except it wouldn’t be funny I guess :(

          90

        • #
          William

          She is a democrat, they do rise from the dead to vote. Early and often.

          90

        • #
          Bill

          I sense a continuing pattern in american electoral trends. We saw the same thing in the past 2 elections in Canada with the Saanich Gulf Islands riding, where the green maven (Elizabeth May aka Flaky Lizzie)go “elected” overwhelmingly based on polling stations on the gulf islands which mysteriously grew in population by over 300% for a bare few days, with one room cabins suddenly holding up to 25 voters as permanent addresses, and new addresses that are off shore in several hundred feet of ocean (before factoring in “sea level rise”).

          And the various lefties whined, moaned, and dripped about the evil conservatives muzzling scientists and trying to “steal elections” through “voter suppression”. Canada got the worst of all choices this time around.

          70

          • #
            Bill

            Of course the MSM love in for Trudeau continues unabated despite his idiocy and commitment to sell out the country to the parisites. That doesn;t even include his commitment to move 20K refugees with out doing even the most basic of security checks.

            60

      • #
        Binny

        Based on that graph, experience tells me Hilary is a shoo in.
        We’re talking about the overwhelming power of the MSM/Celebrity/Twitter sphere here.
        Look what happened to Abbott.

        150

        • #
          PeterS

          yes the MSM/Celebrity/Twitter sphere is a problem. It’s yet another reason to increase the voting age, not decrease it as the left want to.

          70

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      So Hilary is the least understanding of the lot or just the most dishonest?

      She may be both. But it’s obvious to me that she hasn’t the slightest interest in understanding the climate change debate so of course she doesn’t understand it even if she can. And remember, she’s a lawyer or at least once was. So training in science and math isn’t in the mix anywhere.

      Hillary… …The queen of the Democrat party needs no understanding of anything. She’s entitled, remember?

      150

    • #
      Leonard Lane

      Hilary is both the least honest (maybe the least honest major candidate we have ever had) and one with the least ability or desire to understand the complexity of of the current world situation.

      100

  • #
    craig

    Anything to do with Hilary you wouldn’t touch with a 10 foot barge pole, the woman is toxic sludge.

    331

  • #
    TdeF

    Real scientists want logic and hard evidence before they will believe such an unlikely scenario. Carbon dioxide was discovered in 1754, fifty years after the first thermometer. Man made it to the South Pole in 1911 and in the same year flew across the US in 49 days. Men climbed Mount Everest in 1953 and stood on the moon in 1969. The internet, 1991. Now we control the planet?

    Now we are to told that world temperatures are critically dependent on tiny CO2? Evidence please and a little more than some vague coincidence pushed as causality. As lifelong Climate Scientist Professor Murry Selby concluded after years of study, there is absolutely no correlation between CO2 and temperature. Of course he was immediately fired.

    As for Climate Scientists, which of Australia’s infamous Climate Commission was a Climate Scientist? How does a man with no mathematics, no meteorology, no hard science become Australia’s Chief Climate Commissioner after a first degree in English, his native and only language? Tim Flannery is still lecturing us on the imminent disaster, drowned cities, endless drought and the evils of fossil fuel and why his favorite hot rocks company will succeed. (They took $93Million of public money )

    What is surprising is that so many people want to believe that mankind is destroying the planet and that the fifth man of the apocalypse is carbon dioxide, the very stuff from which we are all made as carbon lifeforms.

    As successful as it is unlikely, Man Made Global Warming is the realm of the doomsayer and the most financially rewarding scare in human history, costing over $1,000,000,000 a day to prevent something satellites tell us is not happening. As 100+ heads of State fly into Paris to talk about the carbon dioxide crisis, think of the opportunity lost to discuss and perhaps fix the real problems of the day.

    411

  • #
    Rereke Whakaaro

    That is an interesting concept.

    Politicians get elected, because they can appeal to the majority of voters. Doing that requires a capacity to identify, and connect with, the prevalent group-think of the voters, on a wide range of issues.

    The question in my mind is, “Do voters make a candidate selection based on one policy area, or on the overall range of policies”? Normally, I would say, “the range of policies”, but Climate Change itself, is so far-reaching into a wide range of policy areas, that it may actually be a deciding factor, in this coming election.

    Time to stock up on popcorn …

    200

    • #
      bobl

      It’s an interesting question but I’d say you can point to a number of prominent electoral slaughters that could lay blame right at the feet of AGW.
      In Oz

      Howard (from refusal to sign kyoto)

      Rudd (for signing kyoto, nah, just kidding but he was deposed in part for dropping the ETS that Gillard the deposer prompted him to drop – politics eh?)

      Gillard – For that “No Carbon Tax under the government I lead” blatant lie

      Captain Bligh in QLD knocked over because of her support for Gillards folly

      NSW/VIC/NT/Tas and WA labor all lost due to the carbon tax

      Malcolm Turnbull knocked over (the first time) because of his support for the Rudd ETS on the day the electorate went nuts. Turnbull’s on suicide watch during the Paris love in, should he partake of the political poison that is AGW and bring back a carbon tax, if he does, then bye-bye Mal again.

      I make it that AGW has taken of the order of 10 – 12 political scalps in Australia alone mostly nutty Progressives oops regressives.

      AGW policy is frankly political poison, feelings run high especially on the sceptic side, so high that people are prepared to shift allegiances to keep carbon taxes out. Whether voters believe or not is irrelevant, taxpayers in OZ have clearly sent a message, we won’t pay for this folly. Still the left and Malcolm sip at the AGW political poison bottle hoping to be able to partake of the warmist vote without committing suicide at the hand of that large but silent majority that are Taxed Enough Already.

      Hopefully the USA are not far behind, I’m sure noone in the USA wants one job lost or want’s to pay one red cent toward this globalist wet dream. Trick in the USA is to get that large silent majority with the hurting wallets to get out and vote down this nonsense.

      340

      • #
        ianl8888

        Yes, agreed

        Although I don’t think Howard lost because of his refusal to sign Kyoto. It was his obdurance (and against his own warning to his backbenchers) in the face of a very effective, but dishonest, TV campaign against “Work Choices” that finally did him in

        But the rest of the hapless prawns your list – yes. It’s what Pielke Jr calls the “Iron Law”. The populace majority wants so hard to believe, but they won’t willingly pay to do it. I wonder if Lord Narcissus has twigged to that yet ?

        150

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Rereke I’ve found a lot of voters judge the politician based on a personality that has been generated by the MSM and the politician themselves, this has disaster written all over it as the perceived true personality is impossible to see and why would you hold a personality over the ability of critical thinking?, as suggested in the above graph independent thought in a leader would be a far greater asset to your country over the ability to act in the MSM theatre co.

      141

    • #
      PeterS

      Rereke I’ve been stocking up on popcorn for some time now. I we will see some real fireworks in the near future. The quality of politicians these days clearly guarantees that. People used to make jokes about Reagan and Bush Mark 2. Compared to those of today they now look like statesmen. However, I still reserve judgement on Trump. We won’t know what he’s really like unless he gets elected. He’s the trump card so to speak so anything goes. That in itself is worth letting him have a go. Just need a lot more popcorn.

      80

    • #

      An old Glenfiddich and one sweet young thing, even with the needed newsprint on the floor, will be much more rewarding, than popcorn in this election. Even if you cannot afford either! ;-)

      90

      • #
        King Geo

        Ahhh “Will Me Lad” are thee are Scot?

        Your alter ego suggests perhaps not.

        In any case I think all of us Skeptics involved in this fine blog deserve a glass of Glenfiddich for scoring 100 on the “Independent Thinking Scale”. Hilary maybe a glass of coke (apologies to coca cola).

        120

        • #
          Geoff Sherrington

          A glass of Coke?
          Is it not strange that the mobs who want zero CO2 emissions have not targeted CocaCola, a corporation whose dominant activities include the manufacture of CO2 and its containment as fun fizz in bottles,cans etc from whence it bubbles away to add new CO2 to the air.
          Ditto for beer makers.
          Strange how the mobs want to keep their Coke and drink it too.

          141

  • #
    MarloweJ

    Everytime a politician or warmist cites the discredited 97% John Cook fabricated consensus, it is a dead giveaway. Instantly, without doubt, one knows for sure, that they have no idea what they are talking about! Aaron Mair’s (the Sierra Club president) answer to the US Senate Judicial Committee is a classic!
    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/10/06/sierra-club-would-rather-quote-bogus-97-mantra-than-address-facts/

    211

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Ted Cruz was relentless in trying to extract an answer out of this puppet, I didn’t know what was more impressive Cruz’s ability to keep the questioning on course or his self control in attempting to communicate with such breathtaking arrogance.

      280

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Is it breathtaking arrogance, Yoni, or breathtaking dedication to purpose?

        Cruz is a man on a mission. You never know what kind of a president someone will be until you put him in office but the firebrand in Cruz and his understanding of how the world works and the dangers in giving in to the temptation of taking the easy path makes him one of those I wish we could elect. Perhaps the one single candidate I’d like to elect if we could. And as you point out, he knows what’s going on. I don’t see such good grasp of what’s happening, good and bad, in anyone else. He has it all at instant recall.

        Maybe he’d commit some mistakes. But so has every other president, even Ronald Reagan, the man I consider to be the best president in our entire history. But the country will not buy Ted Cruz for president.

        90

        • #
          Yonniestone

          I was referring to Aaron Mair (sierra club) in relation to the ‘breathtaking arrogance’ Roy, sorry my grammar can be quite poor at times and I should have added “from the Sierra Club”.

          Ted Cruz looks like the real deal and I hope the USA gets someone with half his qualities for President, considering the disaster Patriots have endured the past 6 years.

          80

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            Yoni,

            Sorry, my bad assumption. But I’ve been watching Ted Cruz for a long time already and I can easily see how he could be accused of arrogance — too young, too inexperienced, etc., etc., ad infinitum…

            They have no intention of listening to his message or examining it to see if it makes sense. They apparently have no sense by which to judge him.

            10

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          Roy:

          The more Trump, Carson and Cruz rubbish Climate Change© without being hit by thunderbolts from heaven and continuing to lead in the polls, the more nervous and hysterical the gullible warmists will become, and the more they will raise doubts. Equally, those Republicans trailing in the race will be tempted to move toward a sceptical line.

          The MSM ( or some of them ) too will start to wonder if 97% is the real figure. They have a real dislike of making fools of themselves, and continuing to back Hilary as she sinks back into the swamp will not appeal.

          The net result will be more reporting of the drawbacks of the Dogma and the costs associated – rising cost of living and rising unemployment. Resulting in less support for the warmists and Obama & Obama-lite.

          70

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            Graeme,

            I will hope that happens. But there’s no sign of it so far.

            I would have thought the total failure of all the dire predictions would wake up at least some of them. But a fanatic and his favorite cause against those he thinks he’s superior to, have historically proven to be very hard to separate.

            If you want a good use of 97%, I’d say 97% of humans have some builtin prohibition against losing face. And nothing loses face faster than having to admit you were gullible.

            10

  • #

    Trump on climate change:
    “This very expensive global warming bullsh*t has got to stop.” -Donald Trump
    “Surprise? 1970’s global cooling alarmists were pushing the same no-growth liberal agenda as today’s global warming.” -Donald Trump
    “Obama’s speech on climate change was scary. It will lower our standard of living and raise costs of fuel & food for everyone.” -Donald Trump
    “Gore wants us to clean up our factories and plants in order to protect us from global warming, when China and other countries couldn’t care less. It would make us totally non-competitive in the manufacturing world, and China, Japan and India are laughing at America’s stupidity.” -Donald Trump
    “With the coldest winter ever recorded, with snow setting record levels up and down the coast, the Nobel committee should take the Nobel Prize back from Al Gore.” -Donald Trump

    Plus Trump in a 1 minute video: http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4551721/trump-mocks-climate-change-question

    280

  • #
    James Murphy

    Vaguely related is the Forbes Presidential Candidate Wealth List, showing the apparent net worth of 20 candidates.
    Bernie Sanders, Marco Rubio, and Martin O’Malley are the only 3 who aren’t millionaires (according to this list, anyway).

    90

  • #
    Dave N

    Carson wins on “climate change”, loses on just about everything else; Trump is almost as bad.

    I pity the US if either are ever elected

    75

    • #
      PeterS

      I pity the US no matter who gets elected simply because so much damage already has been done financially, socially and several other ways. It would take nothing short of a real miracle to fix things, and I’m not exaggerating. Popcorn….

      110

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        You are right, of course. But we’ve got to do better than Hillary, no matter what. And I think Trump, Cruz and a few others can’t get themselves elected even if they stand on their heads on Election Day. So maybe the alternative is to get majorities with balls working on both sides of the Capitol Building and then impeach the wrong president if we get her or him and toss them out on their ear in the middle of Pensylvania Avenue (it’s safe, so don’t worry, traffic has been prohibited in front of the White House since 9/11).

        But then there’s the problem of who might be vice president. Could impeach that one too I suppose. Maybe with Paul Ryan as speaker we could get to a decent president that way.

        All this is to say that no matter how bad things look, we need to get started on cleaning house and fixing problems. The objective is for the right people to get control of the country again. And the wrong people have been devious, dishonest, subversive and ruthless… …and we have to win the fight or lose our republic. I look at it as another civil war, this one being for the very soul of the United States of America. And as I’ve said, the only unforgivable thing in a war is to lose it. The loser of a war has never prosecuted the winner for anything. Bipartisan is a word only heard from the loser of an election and it means you still should do it our way, not yours. I want an unequivocal victory in this fight. It may take decades but it has to be done, do or die.

        How about the rest of you?

        Some popcorn would probably help. Or maybe a miracle.

        61

        • #
          PeterS

          All nice ideas Roy but unfortunately you are dreaming. Getting the majority of both sides to agree on such an issue the way you described is tantamount to treason or a coup according to the system in place. That’s not how American democracy “works”. Just stock up on popcorn and watch the fireworks. More seriously though just prepare and look after yourself, your family and friends as best you can. The storm is coming and it will sink the US and all of the other Western nations, thanks to a mixture of ego, greed, corruption, public apathy, etc.. Like all other empires down through history they start off meaning well but eventually start rotting from within prior to imploding, often with the assistance from external forces.

          60

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            Yes! Hence my wish for a miracle.

            I’m not going to live a whole lot longer at my age but I have an 8 month old grandson whose life I would like to be lived out under freedom, individual initiative and accomplishment — all 80 or 90 years of it.

            I will do whatever I can, which isn’t much, mostly words and how I vote and hope for the best even when I fear the worst. But history is not very encouraging, is it?

            20

    • #
      clive

      Pat,what these”Numpties”don’t understand is if we “Keep It In The Ground”there will be NO Money,at all.With out “Fossil Fuels”The world will not be producing very much,will it?

      20

      • #
        gai

        What is worse Clive is they DO realize it and EMBRACE IT!

        Willie Münzenberg has done a fine job of instilling self-loathing and hatred of Western Civilization.
        ….

        In Politics, Aristotle wrote that if “the shuttle would then weave, and the lyre play of itself; nor would the architect want servants, or the master slaves.”

        It is often paraphrased “When looms weave by themselves human’s slavery will end.”

        Bucky Fuller pointed out that a strong person was equivalent to about 1/2 a horse power and that it is modern technology, plus modern energy that lets us replace real slaves with “energy slaves.” A friend infuriated his elementary school teacher when he told her that it was actually James Watt, who invented the first practical cost-effective steam engines (1765), not Lincoln who freed the slaves. The abolition movement of the 1850s was made possible by human invention and fossil fuels allowing the replacement of human energy.

        The Alarmists realize this and don’t care. The Energy of Slaves by Andrew Nikiforuk is an Amazon best seller and lays it out.

        …..the abolition movement that triumphed in the 1850s had an invisible ally: coal and oil. As the world’s most portable and versatile workers, fossil fuels replenished slavery’s ranks with combustion engines and other labor-saving tools. Since then, oil has changed the course of human life on a global scale, transforming politics, economics, science, agriculture, gender, and even our concept of happiness. But as best-selling author Andrew Nikiforuk argues in this provocative book, we still behave like slaveholders in the way we use energy, and that urgently needs to change. Cheap oil transformed the United States from a resilient republic into a global petroleum evangelical, then a sickly addict. Modern economics owes its unrealistic models to fossil fuels…

        One of the five star reviews even says

        The author has done all of us a tremendous favor in outlining the fatal flaw of modern civilizations – namely we all need energy to live a life of ease. Oil-fueled robots and machines today, and human beings in the past. His summary of Rome’s wars speaks to us here in the U.S. today. Roman armies were created not to defend the nation but to gather cheap labor and resources around the known world then. Brutality was a given if the fine upper class folks of Rome were to have their privileged life…

        Everyone falls prey to the temptations of an easy life that depends on cheap energy and low cost resources. More and more energy resources are needed as we collectively poison the planet by contaminating our atmosphere, our water, and our food. Thanks to Andrew Nikiforuk we now know who we are – yet another doomed civilization….

        So it would seem the Alarmists wish to return to the life of a serf — Nasty Brutal and Short. They truly are 1811 Luddites.

        10

  • #
    Popeye26

    Just received via email this afternoon.

    REALLY GOOD NEWS – first cancellation for the Paris “boondoggle”

    POOR AVAAZ!!

    Security concerns are keeping the people of Paris from joining our massive global climate march on November 29th, the eve of the biggest climate summit this decade. Paris can’t march, but Sydney can. Let’s step up now, for Paris, and for everything we love. Click to join the Sydney climate march on November 29th:
    I’M IN

    Dear amazing Avaaz community,

    The French government has just announced that with security still a major concern in Paris, we’ll have to cancel our massive climate march there on November 29th.

    This is heart-breaking for our Paris members, who have had enough heartbreak already. *More than a thousand* of them — unprecedented numbers — turned up at Avaaz meetings in recent weeks, just to volunteer to help organise the march!!

    The people of Paris may not be able to march to save everything we love, but in Sydney we can. Let’s show ISIS that silencing some of us will only make the rest of us step up, stand up, and speak even louder. Because we are one people, one planet, engaged in a fight to save everything we love. This Sunday, November 29th, we march like never before. Join us at The Domain at 12:30pm to make history at the Sydney Climate March:

    http://www.peoplesclimate.org.au/sydney?recruiter_id=2270

    If you have already signed up for the Sydney march, invite your friends to the Facebook event here:
    https://www.facebook.com/events/175911326075789/

    The biggest global climate summit of the decade is going ahead in Paris after the march. We have to make sure that the people speak, and leaders hear us, before they gather. Momentum is with us, but some countries like India and Saudi Arabia are making ominous moves to block global progress. We need a massive global outcry for a 100% clean energy world, to pressure the blockers, and bolster champions like Germany not to give in.

    Our day of action has over 2000 events worldwide. Our goal is still to mobilise the largest climate change march in history. Paris was the biggest march planned, but the attacks there make it impossible. Once again, the actions of the few threaten the welfare of us all. But not if we rise to this moment. Humanity is wildly imperfect, but we can shine our brightest in the darkest of times. On November 29th, in Sydney, let’s shine our light:

    http://www.peoplesclimate.org.au/sydney?recruiter_id=2270

    If you have already signed up for the Sydney march, invite your friends to the Facebook event here:
    https://www.facebook.com/events/175911326075789/

    The fight to stop catastrophic climate change is not just about stopping a few more storms or a bit of sea rise. Scientists are screaming from rooftops that we are playing with uncontrollable tipping points and feedback loops in our fragile biosphere that could cause rapid, out of control climate change — the kind that could mean the end of the human journey. How strangely fitting that at our greatest moment of rallying to save ourselves, the divisive and violent forces of our past would rise to try to take this moment from us. Let’s show who we are, and rise to this moment, with all the love and hope we know we’re capable of. For the sake of everything we love.

    With hope and gratitude,

    Ricken, Alice, Emma, and the whole Avaaz team.

    P.S. In case you missed it, please add a message to this beautiful expression of love our community is sending to our brothers and sisters in France, Lebanon, and across the world here.

    P.P.S. Organisers, partners and Avaaz staff are in touch with the relevant authorities to make sure this is a fun, hopeful and safe day.

    Sources:

    No plan B if Paris climate summit ends in failure, says EU climate chief (The Guardian)
    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/06/no-plan-b-if-paris-climate-summit-ends-in-failure-says-eu-climate-chief

    Paris Climate Marches to Be Canceled (NY Times)
    http://www.nytimes.com/live/paris-attacks-live-updates/paris-climate-marches-to-be-canceled/

    Apple, Microsoft, Google and other US firms to commit $140bn to address climate change (International Business Times)
    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/apple-microsoft-google-other-us-firms-commit-140bn-address-climate-change-1512696

    People’s Climate March: the Revolution Starts Here (Ricken’s OpEd in The Guardian)
    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/29/peoples-climate-march-the-revolution-starts-here

    These people are a JOKE but they’re also dangerous – idiots with a “cause”.

    Cheers,

    140

  • #
    TdeF

    I had to look for the correlation for increasing gullibility in the same sequence.
    Was it age? No, just political party.

    Republicans
    Ted Cruz 44.
    Ben Carson 64
    Donald Trump 69
    Marco Rubio 44
    Carly Fiorina 61
    Rand Paul 52
    John Kazich 63
    Chris Christie 53
    Jeb Bush 62

    and Democrats

    Bernie Sanders 74 Democrat
    Martin O’Malley 52 Democrat
    Hilary is 68. Democrat

    100

    • #
      Yonniestone

      ‘Hilary is 68′ another year should see a big turnaround for her.

      153

      • #
        gnome

        No No No A thousand times NOOOOOO. That red thumb happened because my system isn’t working properly (no images)and I put my finger in the wrong place. Please moderators, can’t it be taken back?

        Yours may well be the post of the month/year/decade?

        61

        • #
          TdeF

          Agreed. Very funny. A real Monica year.

          81

        • #
          TdeF

          Give the man a cigar.

          111

          • #
            Vlad the Impaler

            This is an oldie, but a goodie:

            Every VIP is given a Secret Service code name. Example: the sitting Vice-President might be called “Moonglow”; the Speaker of the (U.S.) House of Representatives (third in line for Presidential succession, should both the President and Vice-President be incapacitated) could be called “Vodka Martini”, etc.

            When Hillary was First Lady, being assigned to her Secret Service detail was a form of reprimand, her treatment of those assigned to protect her was unbelievably bad. Current rumor has it that it has gotten worse on the campaign trail.

            Anyway, when she was First Lady, the vehicle carrying her (automobile or aircraft) was code-named “Broomstick One”.

            211

        • #

          Go directly to jail. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200. You are doomed to eternity and we all hate you, to the seventh generation (Isn’t that the way it works now?)

          31

  • #

    Say, off topic, but hey.

    The Greens released their all singing all dancing renewable power plan.

    No chance of ever being implemented. No real costings other than real cheap.

    Power plants still in the thought bubble of dreams.

    Outrageous plans for power plants start on page 37, with a State by State breakdown.

    Umm, all except for the State they left out, Western Australia.

    And they say they represent ALL Australians.

    Oh dear!

    Proof readers get the sack. Beats me how they missed it.

    Tony.

    Link to Plan (48 pages pdf document)

    240

    • #
      Yonniestone

      So has WA replaced TAS as the forgotten state, I wonder if the Greens know where the missing 15% of Australia’s GDP comes from?

      Rhetorical questions with answers that would stupify with their stupendous stupefaction.

      110

    • #
      Popeye26

      ROTFLMFAO!!!

      That is HILARIOUS – do they expect to get ANY votes from the constituents of WA?

      What a bunch of rolled gold MORONS – especially DiNatale.

      :-) :-) :-) :-)

      Cheers,

      100

    • #
      Robert O

      Richard di Natale, the Greens leader, was saying on Saturday’s Insiders it was 90% renewable by 2030. OK current electricity production about 250,000 GWh /yr.
      Say 20,000 GWh for hydro so we are looking at 205,000 GWh of other renewables by 2030. For the exercise say half solar of 100,000
      GWh and half wind of 100,000 GWh. Richard said we are rich with these resources, and as well they are much cheaper than coal!

      100,000 GWh is equivalent to 100,000 x 1,000/ 365 x 24 = 11,415 MW of coal/gas/hydro/nuclear 24hr. power.

      For the wind component one needs 11,415 / 25% = 45,662 MW of wind turbines. The Macarthur windfarm is 420MW (140 x 3MW turbines) and is 5,500 ha., so one needs 109 windfarms the size of Macarthur to achieve this goal.

      For the Solar component of 11,415 MW 24 hr. power, one requires 11,415/ 15% = 76,100 MW of solar farms. Let’s use rooftop solar for this and a 3 KW unit is probably the most common unit. The number of units required is 76,100 x 1000 / 3 = 25,366,666.

      The Australian population is 23 million and certainly there are not 25 million houses in the country.

      Now, both solar and wind are intermittent sources of power, so back-up power is required for the time the wind doesn’t blow or the sun doesn’t shine; say about 80% of the time. Remember the Adelaide black-outs when the coal station back-up from Victoria didn’t work? The question is what do you use for back-up power, the choice being coal, nuclear, or gas stations, or Caterpillar gensets? Apart from nuclear the others burn fossil fuels, so the real question is why even bother with renewables when you have to run back-up 80 % of the time and these put out a lot of CO2.

      Really a lot to dance about as it is a complete and utter nonsense.

      151

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      So Tony, when has being realistic ever been a qualification required of an expert before he could make vast plans for the whole human race?

      I think maybe the plans are more like, half vast. ;-)

      100

    • #

      Sorry, but I just couldn’t help it.

      This renewable power plan from The Greens.

      Get this.

      They actually want to take all the transport off the roads and move to battery cars, by 2030 no less, all of them.

      Now, they admit that this will increase electrical power consumption, because all those batteries will need charging. To that end, The Greens envisage that electrical power consumption will rise to 358TWH per year, and they currently over inflate actual consumption now, because it is actually closer to 210TWH, and not the 247TWH they quote.

      So, keep in mind that this is for 90% renewables by 2030, 90%.

      I’ve worked out their totals from their own figures.

      Forget the five to seven year lead time for new plant planning, because The Greens are starting next year, full throttle. Forget that they have no clue where all these plants are going. Forget that they detail plants that are not yet even viable, let alone on the scale they detail. Forget that they have not bothered with even the slightest costing, or where the money will come from. Forget that they have not bothered to take into account the life expectancy of these plants and that all currently existing renewables will need to be replaced, and then to keep going with construction, as plants opening now will also become time expired. Forget that they are closing down the coal fired power plants, while they still have legally binding orders to supply. Forget that they will offer no compensation for loss of capital infrastructure cost or supply costs, because they will offer no compensation.

      Forget that WA is left off the plan completely.

      Forget ALL of that.

      They say that consumption will rise to 358TWH.

      Working out the total power delivery from all their own new plants, the total power generated from ALL of them is only 154TWH.

      All of this from a Nameplate Capacity of 790,161MW from literally thousands of new plants.

      These people are maths challenged in the extreme.

      Naah! Look, I’ve had enough of this. How easy is it for these people to bring this out, knowing that their fans will lap it up. They can say whatever they like, full in the knowledge that it will NEVER happen, and when people point at it and laugh, they have the easy ‘out’ by saying that they are not in power. There’s no calling them out either, because, hey, no one knows what they are on about, least of all those Greens Senators. They will just get away with it clean.

      Tony.

      130

    • #
      Robber

      Tony, I look forward to your formal demolition of their “plan”.
      Un-amazing was that their ABC reported it as fact without any questioning.
      Lower Pollution, lower prices, green jobs for all – what could possibly be wrong?

      50

      • #

        How can you demolish something like this?

        They’ve moved on anyway, The Greens. They won’t even have to answer for it, explain it in any manner, or even address it any more.

        I have this vision about all these documents, green papers, white papers etcetera.

        They have this meeting for the cameras where the person who does all the work, holds all the meetings and investigations, does all the interviews, and then produces the end document. In a fanfare of handshakes and smiles with all the media cameras rolling, the guy who does all the work presents his paper to the Government Minister. Everyone smiles, looks earnest, and scans a few pages for the cameras.

        Then the cameras stop and everyone leaves the room.

        The Minister then drops the paper into the bin, looks around to his private secretary, and says ….. Next!

        Nothing gets done.

        Same here. I can shred this, but to what use. This document’s five minutes of fame has already expired, never to be heard of again. Huh! None of those believers would understand the first thing about it anyway, let alone anyone who tries to explain it, let alone, shred it to pieces. Who’d believe me anyway.

        The worst thing is that the believers believe something like this is possible.

        It’s just useless and meaningless numbers on a page. It was never intended to even begin to implement it, let alone actually check it for veracity. It has already been forgotten.

        Tony.

        60

  • #
    Glen Michel

    Haw haw.

    30

  • #
    ianl8888

    The candidates have a contemporaneous issue with credibility here:

    http://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2015/11/depths-climateers-deception/

    I think this has been the subject of a previous thread. I also suspect that OBummer will protect NOAA until he has to let go of the door jamb when he’s dragged out in 12 months, but the issue does have a credibility tang to it

    70

  • #
    Rico L

    I so hope Trump wins.

    100

  • #
    Ruairi

    No half-informed thinking adult,
    Should be duped by the consensus cult,
    But the climate ambitions,
    Of some world politicians,
    Is to science a shameful insult.

    210

  • #
    John Gorter

    How can anybody link the words ‘poor’ and ‘Hillary Clinton’ in the same sentence!

    70

    • #
      James Murphy

      Quite easy – just include one or more of the following words straight after ‘poor’:
      judgement
      credibility
      choice
      house (as in Hillary Clinton is likely to send the US to the poor-house)
      US fiscal management

      160

      • #
        John Gorter

        Well done James

        Ciao

        John

        70

        • #
          James Murphy

          Sorry, I couldn’t resist the challenge… I do get your point though.

          I am still gobsmacked that the very people who rail against ‘the rich’, seem to completely ignore/excuse the sizable wealth of those they love to support (Gore and Clinton, to name but 2)

          40

  • #
    pat

    the elite who believe/hope the public are gullible fools!

    initiated by Sky News, long-time member of Prince Charles’ Corporate Leaders Group, whose secretariat is provided by the University of Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership, and picked up today by the world’s MSM:

    22 Nov: UK Telegraph: Luke Heighton: Prince Charles: Climate change failure is a factor behind Syrian crisis
    The Prince said it’s a “classic case of not dealing with the problem”
    Prince Charles has suggested the cause of conflict in Syria is climate change, in a wide-ranging interview.
    Drought and competition for increasingly scarce resources caused by manmade activities also played a role in the refugee crisis which has seen thousands of people leave the Middle East and cross Europe in recent months, the Prince of Wales said.
    The remarks were made in an interview with ***Sky News recorded before the latest wave of terror attacks in Paris, which will be broadcast on Monday…
    Asked by Royal Correspondent Rhiannon Mills if there was a direct link between climate change, conflict and terrorism, the heir to the throne replied:
    “It’s only in the last few years that the Pentagon have actually started to pay attention to this. I mean it has a huge impact on what is happening”…
    The Prince is expected to deliver a keynote speech at the United Nations climate change conference or COP21 in Paris next week.
    A parallel event for business, the Sustainable Innovation Forum (SIF15), is due to take place at the same time at the Stade de France, close to the spot where two terrorist bombs went off on 13 November.
    During the 30-minute interview His Royal Highness said failure to urgently address issues such as a rise in global temperatures meant the world was heading towards “catastrophes and chaos”…
    (Special Report ‘Climate Crisis: Prince Charles Speaks Out’ will air on Sky News at 8pm on Monday 23rd November)
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/prince-charles/12010746/Prince-Charles-Climate-change-failure-is-a-factor-behind-Syrian-crisis.html

    13 Nov: WeMeanBusiness: The Prince of Wales’s Corporate Leaders Group calls on G20 Leaders to fulfil their six-year-old pledge to end fossil fuel subsidies
    CAMBRIDGE/BRUSSELS, 13 NOVEMBER 2015 — The Prince of Wales’s Corporate Leaders Group (CLG) is calling on G20 leaders, on the eve of their annual meeting beginning in Antalya, Turkey, on Sunday, to send a decisive signal to business, investors and governments by agreeing to accelerate the elimination of perverse fossil fuel subsidies…
    Eliminating fossil fuel subsidies would not only substantially contribute to the much-needed greenhouse gas emissions reductions that are required to hold global surface temperature rise below 2 degrees. It would also benefit the wider economy…
    Paul Polman, CEO of Unilever, said…
    Jean-Bernard Levy, CEO, EDF, commented…etc
    For media inquiries and interview requests, please contact:
    Sylvain Biville | Media & Communications | Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership…
    About the Prince of Wales’s Corporate Leaders Group
    CLG members are: 3M, Acciona, Anglian Water Group, BT, Coca-Cola Enterprises, Doosan, DSM, EDF Energy, Ferrovial, GlaxoSmithKline, Heathrow, Iberdrola, Interface, Jaguar Land Rover, Kingfisher, Lloyds Banking Group, Philips, Skanska, ***SKY, Tesco, Thames Water, Unilever, United Technologies.
    The University of Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership (CISL) provides the secretariat to the CLG but is not a member.
    http://www.wemeanbusinesscoalition.org/content/prince-wales%E2%80%99s-corporate-leaders-group-calls-g20-leaders-fulfil-their-six-year-old-pledge

    61

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Now if we could only hope to get Ted Cruz elected. :-(

    But I doubt it.

    100

  • #
    gai

    If you want to look at the Republicans the three issues I consider most important are:

    #1. CAGW,
    #2. Immigration/close the borders,
    #3 The the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) That treaty gives the paris-ite Circus the Teeth to enforce what ever is agreed a upon. See my comment at Tallblokes about why TPP is so important.

    (The typical Republican talking points, Anti-abortion and Anti-gay rights will lose the election in the USA so Republicans need to move into the 21st Century and talk about the REAL issues like the economy.)
    Those three issues take out just about all the viable candidates except Rick Santorum who polls near the bottom and Trump who is a wild card.

    Ben Carson is bad news since he is anti-2nd Amendment rights. Carson has also made it clear he wants to make the illegals already here legal and he said that he voted for Obama in 2008. He also supports the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) (I was in favor of the guy until I looked more closely.)

    Cruz:
    Senator Cruz voted for the Corker Bill… which just gave nukes to Iran.
    Senator Cruz vote for TPA (“before he voted against it”) TPA = Trade Promotion Authority. TPA prevents Congress from amending trade deals, only allowing a yes-or-no vote. In January 2015, Cruz said, “I am a full-throated advocate of free trade. Free trade benefits America, produces jobs, produces economic growth and it is good for our country.” WTO proved that ‘free trade’ EXPORTS JOBS and lowers wages.
    Senator Cruz wants to increase H1Bs by 500% and put more Americans out of jobs.
    His wife is a member of the CFR and a VP for Goldman Sachs.

    Cruz, Carson, Rand Paul & Rubio support TPP. Carly Fiorina supports CAGW. Christy and Bush are Democrats in Republican clothing. Scott Walker ended his 2016 run. Mike Huckabee , Bobby Jindal and Rick Santorum all publicly opposed TPA

    Mike Huckabee is wishy-washy on Immigration and doesn’t have a clue about CAGW. ” Not to diminish anything about the climate at all, but Mr. President, I believe that most of us would think that a beheading is a far greater threat to an American than a sunburn.” He opposed TPP

    Kasich is wishy-washy on Immigration and CAGW. “doesn’t “want to overreact” to global warming”

    Lindsey Graham supports green energy, and wants to increase legal immigration.

    BusinessWeek named Pataki one of the top 20 “individuals who stand out for their efforts to cut gases that cause global warming” in the world.

    Rick Santorum, hard-line stance to limit legal immigration, “There’s hundreds of reasons the climate’s changed.” opposed TPP Unfortunately he get 1% of the polling votes on a consistent basis.

    Everyone else has less than 1% of the poll votes.
    ***********************

    Trump said:
    “Man, we could use a big fat dose of global warming!”
    “I’m not a believer in global warming, I’m not a believer in manmade global warming.”

    “Obama’s Trans-Pacific Partnership Deal Is ‘Insanity’ ”

    “When politicians talk about “immigration reform” they mean: amnesty, cheap labor and open borders….We are the only country in the world whose immigration system puts the needs of other nations ahead of our own. That must change.”

    At least Trump is entertaining and drags the real issues out front and center. Best of all the man gives the MSM conniption fits!

    So though Trump is a wild card he is the last man standing.

    110

    • #
      TdeF

      At least Trump is not a professional lawyer like Obama or Clinton. The last great US president was an actor from Hollywood who played in fifty films. There is something about not being a lawyer like Obama or our Turnbull or Gillard. In the world of lawyers there are no bad people, [snip] or opportunists or [snip], only clients.

      141

      • #
        TdeF

        At least Trump is not a professional lawyer like Obama or Clinton. The last great US president was an actor from Hollywood who played in fifty films. There is something about not being a lawyer like Obama or our Turnbull or Gillard. In the world of lawyers there are no bad people, liars or opportunists or fr*uds, only clients.

        111

      • #
        Robert O

        The real question for Aust. is how many ex-lawyers, and ex-unionists (sometimes they are both) adorn the seats of our parliaments? The answer is a lot. Take the trip to Paris; Ministers Hunt and Bishop and our new PM.

        There is now a plied succession plan for politicians; university studying arts/law/economics, with student politics, then a stint in the unions, a union law firm, or as staffer, and then on to parliament without much in the way of life experience. Things like a degree in science or engineering, or good life experience, seem to be disadvantageous. Pity there isn’t a wide field of diversity reflecting the view of the community, and we are very much the poorer for it.

        Anyone with some understanding of science, in particular with some knowledge of photosynthesis, would question the need for the abatement of Carbon dioxide since it is critical to life itself, and would dismiss the climate models when they have been proven to be in error.

        60

        • #
          handjive

          Paris CoP21 2015: Australia is sending a big team to try to negotiate through this web.

          Turnbull will talk on day one, at the leader’s summit, and environment minister Greg Hunt will also be in Paris in the first week.
          Foreign minister Julie Bishop will lead the negotiations in week 2.

          In a briefing to many of the more than 100 environmental NGOs and business representatives due to attend the Paris climate change conference which begins in late November, the Australian delegation underlined the point that Australia remained “flexible” in many of the key issues to be discussed at the two-week conference.

          10

    • #
      Popeye26

      Add this to the list as well.

      DEFUND the UN – that’ll stop a few thousand (at least) bothering the rest of us and force them to make a REAL living.

      Damned PARASITES!!

      Cheers,

      110

  • #
    Me Kan She

    That missing list to give some truth to settled science should not be a mere 300.000 if the claim is 97%. More like close to 3.000.000 names long.

    70

  • #
  • #
    Dennis

    I read that on ABC Q&A last night a comment was made that a world government is needed to tackle climate change.

    But there is no push for one world government many claim.

    However former Greens leader Bob Brown did mention a world parliament during his last luncheon address to the National Press Club in Canberra.

    90

    • #
      el gordo

      Bob called us ‘fellow earthians’, language I strongly object to.

      More importantly, Cruz is now running second and I believe he will ultimately defeat Trump and become the next President. He has a willingness to express the truth on climate change, his parents were mathematicians and scientists.

      http://therightscoop.com/ted-cruz-schools-two-separate-climate-change-activists-who-were-trying-to-work-him-over/

      70

    • #
      gai

      World Government? Remember when anyone mention that possibility they were shouted down as conspiracy nuts?

      Now the information is coming out that there is a push for a world government and there has been since the 1930s.

      Lamy is a French Socialist and a major player in the EU. He was two time Director-General of the World Trade Organization.

      Pascal Lamy: Whither Globalization?

      ….The reality is that, so far, we have largely failed to articulate a clear and compelling vision of why a new global order matters — and where the world should be headed. Half a century ago, those who designed the post-war system — the United Nations, the Bretton Woods system, the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) — were deeply influenced by the shared lessons of history.

      All had lived through the chaos of the 1930s — when turning inwards led to economic depression, nationalism and war. All, including the defeated powers, agreed that the road to peace lay with building a new international order — and an approach to international relations that questioned the Westphalian, sacrosanct principle of sovereignty….

      Lamy wants a world government modeled after the European Union. (That is what the The Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement was all about)

      And he does mean a real government. Sort of like the USA original started out as before the Civil War squashed the states into submission.

      “Global governance requires localising global issues” — Lamy

      I see four main challenges for global governance today.
      The first one is leadership
      The second one is efficiency
      The third one is coherence, for the international system is based on specialization.
      The last challenge that I see is that of legitimacy… the shared feeling of belonging to a community.

      This is the reason for multiculturalism and CAGW, to create that sense of belonging to a global community the elite so desperately need to create..

      Lamy goes on and says;

      …First, on the question of efficiency, Europe scores in my view rather highly. Thanks to the primacy of EU law over national law. Thanks to the work of the European Court of Justice in ensuring enforcement and respect for the rule of law. And thanks to a clear articulation between the Commission, the Parliament, and the European Court of Justice. It also scores highly from the point of view of redistribution policies…

      ….if we look at the issue of leadership. Europe has had a relatively good record in terms of leadership as long as the leadership of the Commission was accepted. It is the Commission who pushed through the creation of the internal market in the early 1990s and of the euro in the late 1990s…

      Finally, legitimacy is the area in which, in my view, Europe scores less well. We are witnessing a growing distance between European public opinions and the European project. One could have expected that the European institutional set up, with growing powers entrusted to the European Parliament would have resulted in greater legitimacy. But this is contradicted by the declining numbers participating in elections to the European Parliament. Europe continues to be seen as distant, far away from the everyday lives and concerns of citizens. Despite constant efforts to adapt the European institutions to democratic requirements, over the past 50 years, there has been no resulting democratic spark….

      They have not been able to get the Great Unwashed to buy into their EU experiment so they invent a world crisis — global warming, created interdependence via trade agreements and finally suppressed patriotism and national identity via multiculturalism laws.

      If you recall the EU was originally sold as a trade agreement. That was not the final intent. See http://ejil.oxfordjournals.org/content/18/4/715.full

      A final article by Lamy — Global Governance: Lessons from Europe: What can the world learn about global governance from the diplomatic model of the European Union?

      ….It was more than half a century ago that the Frenchman Jean Monet, one of the shapers of post-war Europe, said, “The sovereign nations of the past can no longer provide a framework for the resolution of our present problems. And the European Community itself is no more than a step towards the organizational forms of tomorrow’s world.” His assessment was as valid then as it is now…..

      Growing interdependence requires that our laws, our social norms and values, our mechanisms for framing human behavior be examined, debated, understood and operated together as coherently as possible. This is what would provide the basis for effective sustainable development in its economic, social and environmental dimensions…

      …the European construction is the most ambitious experiment to date in supranational governance. It is the story of a desired, defined and organized interdependence between its member states.….

      In the longer term, we should have both the G20 and the international agencies reporting to the “parliament” of the United Nations. In this respect, a revamping of the UN Economic and Social Council could lend support to the recent resolution adopted by the UN General Assembly on a UN-system-wide coherence.

      This would constitute a potent mix of leadership, inclusiveness and action to ensure coherent and effective global governance….

      And this is precisely what German Chancellor Angela Merkel has proposed with the creation of a Charter for Sustainable Economic Activity. It is a commendable effort to provide a “new global economic contract,” to anchor economic globalization on a bedrock of ethical principles and values which would renew the trust that citizens need to have that globalization can indeed work for them.….

      (wwwDOT)theglobalist.com/global-governance-lessons-from-europe/

      Does Global Governance = World Government? Sure looks like it to me.

      20

  • #
    TdeF

    Interesting conversation with a true believer tonight. Everybody knows, CO2 increased by man, ice melting, children’s children, 97% of scientists say. The Science is in. Oceans acidifying. A professional doctor too. The fact that all the oceans were alkali did not change the logic. Facts in general were irrelevant to a closed mind without even getting onto boat people.

    What was surprising is a blind belief that (new) science will fix everything and supply clean, renewable power and that scientists will find it without nuclear and that solar is enough for Australia and wind can work. You would have to completely cover our state of Victoria with solar panels to generate our current needs and apart from the trillions in cost, where would we live?

    Still there is this belief that these scientist types are just going slow on the next storage system and energy generation idea while the world has already built 220,000 useless windmills.

    So the problem is that the next brilliant energy idea is just around the corner, like the internet. Greens just have to push these scientist chaps. Slackers. It will all be fine. Meanwhile, just keep thinking Green. That is the answer to all the problems. Something will pop up. We just have to spend enough of everyone else’s money but not on polluting ideas like fracking, thorium, metal cycles. Really only wind, solar and hydro without dams of course.

    213

    • #
      TdeF

      My point is the gullibility index is high in this one. Is there something called passionate gullibility where people desperately want to believe everything they are told because it suits their strongly held beliefs?

      191

      • #
        Dennis

        You should talk to certain lawyers, “windmills are beautiful” for example.

        40

      • #
        Yonniestone

        Tell them there’s an official ‘Gullibility Scale’, if they believe you put them on it.

        70

      • #
        diogenese2

        “necessity is the mother of invention”

        Possibly the most misleading epithet in the thesaurus when applied to technological innovation. The need for practical electrical storage and carbon dioxide capture and storage does not mean that such outcomes are physically or economically possible.
        Most of the revolutionary scientific discoveries were achieved pursuing mundane and trivial objectives, or were entirely accidental. Others (usually) realised and exploited the potential of these curiosities.
        The search for the technological Holy Grail almost always end in failure. Edison said ” I have discovered a thousand ways not to make a light bulb”. With determination and application we can send a man to the moon (several men actually). To what purpose – to create the thermal insole?
        Wind and Solar CANNOT replace fossil fuels – PERIOD. I despair for people like you, Tony and many others continually speaking the core truth and not penetrating the deluded minds wedded to this insanity.
        In 1973 Tom Lehrer abandoned satire when Henry Kissinger, author of the mass bombing of Cambodia, enabling the rise of POL POT, was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, an event not
        eclipsed by its award to Al Gore and Barack Obama.
        In my small existence, my love of irony has been destroyed by;

        http://www.thegwpf.com/green-madness-renewable-energy-bosses-cash-in-on-diesel/

        My government is now paying subsidies to both reduce and increase CO2 emissions at the same time.
        This morning I attended to clients on the dementia ward of a care home. I regret now declining the offer of a spare room.

        100

        • #
          TdeF

          There is also the fact that apart from nuclear, the only two source of energy are the sun and the earth. Wind and solar are sun. The earth means a hot core and tides. Fossil fuel is only trapped solar energy, trapped as rotted plants in the final form of hydrocarbons from the carbohydrates of photosynthesis. At present we are burning 1 million years per year, so we will run out quickly especially as the use accelerates.

          So I have no idea where the Greenies expect to get their new renewable energy sources. Solar is only 1 year per year, not one million. So it is a million times less useful and like biofuels, robs Peter to pay Paul, taking sunlight which could be used for plants which produce oxygen and feed us. As for energy storage, that does not create energy but even fossil fuels have this problem, which is why aluminium smelters are adjacent to every power plant. Greens want them closed too, magnifying the waste of a base load at night. Then they want the carbon plants closed in fifteen years, just in Australia.

          You can only conclude that Greenies are mad. Hydro without dams. Solar without storage. Base load without smelters. Then we can work when the wind blows and the sun shines, a combination of sailors and farmers. Behind this a blind belief that scientists will perform miracles.

          Global Warming is a religion, the worship of science without any understanding of how it works. People puzzle over the pointless pyramids, stonehenge and Easter Island statues of past generations without realising we have just built our own rows of religious monuments to the great Gods of Climate Scientists who will save us. Our own Tim Flannery. The man with all the answers as he jets into Paris with his concerned friends.

          90

      • #
        gai

        It is amazing how gullible people are.

        Dihydrogen Monoxide FACT Sheet

        ALISO VIEJO, Calif. — City officials were so concerned about the potentially dangerous properties of dihydrogen monoxide that they considered banning foam cups after they learned the chemical was used in their production.

        Penn And Teller Get Gulibles To Sign Dihydrogen Monoxide Banning Petition

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi3erdgVVTw

        And the gullibles are STILL falling for it….

        BAN DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE (DHMO)!
        (wwwDOT)yoism.org/?q=node/360

        (shades of the Onion, I think)

        30

  • #
    mikerestin

    Let me lay to rest a big misconception.

    Swagger is the main thing that wins US elections.

    Compare Obama to Romney
    Obama to Mccain
    Bush to Kerry
    Bush to Gore
    Clinton to Dole
    Clinton to Bush (B to HW)
    Reagan to Mondale
    Reagan to Carter
    Carter to Ford
    Nixon to Humphrey
    Nixon to McGovern
    Kennedy to Nixon
    In every case, swagger wins except maybe Johnson to Goldwater during Nam because Johnson (like Obama) lied about ending the war and Goldwater said he wanted to win the war.

    Now compare:
    Trump to Clinton
    Carson to Clinton
    Rubio to Clinton
    Cruz to Clinton
    Fiorina to Clinton

    Hillary has no swagger.
    She is propped up by the msm only.

    Now we’re looking for a real CINC.
    Based on swagger, it should be Trump, Cruz or Fiorina.
    It won’t be Hillary.

    120

  • #
    pat

    COP21 THIS:

    23 Nov: Lansing State Journal: Lansing shatters 87-year-old snowfall record
    http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2015/11/23/lansing-shatters-87-year-old-snowfall-record/76248936/

    23 Nov: UK Daily Mail: Julian Robinson: Winter is coming: Migrants face plummeting temperatures as snow sweeps across Europe amid fears refugees could freeze to death
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3330282/Winter-coming-Migrants-face-plummeting-temperatures-snow-sweeps-Europe-amid-fears-refugees-freeze-death.html

    51

  • #
    Richard deSousa

    For those who are unfamilier with Ted Cruz, his mentor is famed Harvard Law School professor Alan Dershowitz, who called Ted Cruz one of his smartest graduates of Harvard and a terrific debator in his classes. I’ve seen Cruz leave news reporters and TV news anchors eyes glazed as he drubs them to catatonic stupor.

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/09/dershowitz-tex-cruz-one-of-harvard-laws-smartest-students/

    80

    • #
      gai

      Having lived near HAaaaavard, all I can say is OH NO!

      When ever a company’s plant manager or CEO puts in place really really stupid policies (like no maintenance) my husband and I say the company has been Harvard Business Schooled.

      Generally they stick for two to three years show a great bottom line and then beat feet to the next company that they will ruin with deferred maintenance or refusal to order crucial but expensive long lead time items like the spare screws for injection molding machines.

      You would have to live in Cambridge MA to fully appreciate how radical they are.

      00

  • #
    pat

    read all from this event held under the Chatham Rule, plus details of a Politico carbon stakeholder event! MSM is so complicit in the CAGW scam:

    23 Nov: ReutersCarbonPulse: Ben Garside: ANALYSIS: EU industry’s free carbon allocation faces new threat as France sees bigger picture
    European industries face a new risk to their share of free carbon allowances as France seeks to ensure that after 2020 the handouts are made conditional on carbon pricing outside the bloc.
    The European Commission’s post-2020 EU ETS review proposes to keep free EUA allocations for industry up to 2030, albeit with the amount decreasing annually.
    But France wants the proposal to take into account the development of carbon pricing in the rest of the world, which could cut the subsidies to reflect the lower risk of carbon leakage as more countries put a price on their emissions.
    France’s idea, heard at a seminar hosted by the Centre for European Policy Studies (CEPS) last week, could pile billions of euros of additional costs on big emitting EU industries as they are forced to pay for their allowances.
    France is open as to how this could be done, said one participant at the CEPS event, which was held under the ***Chatham House Rule, where the source of shared information is not attributed in an effort to stimulate debate…
    …France has put forward some of the most ambitious suggested changes, including raising the prospect of eventually deepening the 2030 emission target and including cement importers in the bloc’s carbon market…
    http://carbon-pulse.com/12348/

    23 Nov: ReutersCarbonPulse: Role of carbon markets under the Paris climate treaty and impact on EU’s climate policies – Organised by Carbon Market Watch, 24 November, 2015
    Download Invitation here (plus speakers/topics etc)
    The event will be ***kindly moderated by Mike Szabo, Correspondent, (Reuters) Carbon Pulse.
    http://carbon-pulse.com/12339/

    51

  • #
    pat

    23 Nov: BBC: Jobs lost as wave energy firm Aquamarine Power folds
    Wave energy company Aquamarine Power has been forced to stop trading after it failed to find a buyer.
    The Edinburgh-based company called in administrators at the end of October, saying the economic climate had “significantly affected” its business…
    The administrators were called in just weeks after the firm announced it had been awarded a £580,000 grant from the European Union to help it accelerate the development of commercial wave energy technology…
    Last November, another wave power technology firm, Pelamis, called in administrators after failing to secure development funding.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-34901133

    love the choice of complainants below!

    23 Nov: WA Today: Ray Sparvell: Mosman Park rich and wealthy petition council on ‘ugly’ tilt-up solar panels
    Mosman Park’s wealthiest residents, including multi millionaire builder Harold Clough and mining guru Tim Goyder, have joined up to force solar panels off neighbouring roofs that spoil their views.
    The town council meets on Tuesday evening to consider the petition tabled by more than 70 ratepayers over tilt-up solar panel structures that top buildings with flat roofs.
    Mayor Ron Norris said that the issue began in the steeply sloping Saunders Street precinct where homes range between $3 million-$5 million.
    “The slope can hit 45 degrees and that means homes often overlook one another,” he said…
    Mr Norris said that height could be quantified, but the issue of aesthetics was a more difficult debate.
    “However, there may be easy solutions like screens that might mitigate the presence of the tilt-up structures,” he said…
    “The new policy will not be retrospective. Any installations that are already on flat roofs can remain,” Mr Norris said.​
    http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/mosman-park-rich-and-wealthy-petition-council-on-ugly-tiltup-solar-panels-20151123-gl5tu8.html

    41

  • #
    pat

    LOL:

    23 Nov: ClimateChangeNews: Ed King: Business chiefs pledge to debunk climate sceptics
    CEOs at Microsoft, Nestle, Pepsi, Tata, Dow Chemical offer new set of climate pledges and say they will challenge those who doubt climate science
    Business leaders from 78 multinationals say they will take the fight to climate sceptics and urge politicians to implement tough and effective new carbon cutting plans…
    In a letter (LINK) published by the World Economic Forum (WEF) the business chiefs say they will stress “the science debate is over: climate change is real and addressable” in public communications….
    Together they generated over $2.1 trillion of revenue in 2014, according to the WEF…
    UN climate chief Christiana Figueres welcomed the letter – one of many recently published by business groups ahead of the Paris talks.
    ***“This is the first intentionally directed industrial revolution and will be the source of good new jobs and strong growth for the coming decades, something developing countries are increasingly realizing and taking the lead on,” she said…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2015/11/23/business-chiefs-pledge-to-debunk-climate-sceptics/

    23 Nov: ClimateChangeNews: Ed King: Hollande, Ban head to Malta for final push ahead of Paris climate talks
    This week’s Commonwealth heads of government summit has rocketed in importance as a result of the COP21 Paris climate talks, which kick off on Monday 30 November…
    India’s government is talking tough ahead of Paris, urging richer nations to offer more on finance and technology.
    Meanwhile Canada and Australia – previously countries accused of blocking talks – are showing signs of adopting a more conciliatory tone under new administrations…
    Five hurdles to a Paris deal
    -Finance: Can rich countries meet their $100bn by 2020 goal?
    -Long term: Should a new deal set a decarbonisation target by 2050, 2060, 2100?
    -Loss and damage: Will a new deal help vulnerable nations hit by extreme weather?
    -Ambition: What level of pre-2020 carbon cuts could Paris generate?
    -Legally binding: Will a new pact compel governments to take action?
    Still, the three-day meet is unlikely to deliver any new finance commitments.
    Leaders are expected to agree on a simple statement outlining their commitment to a Paris deal, which may include an ***aspirational long term goal to stop using fossil fuels…
    India prime minister Narendra Modi and South African president Jacob Zuma are understood not be attending…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2015/11/23/hollande-ban-head-to-malta-for-final-push-ahead-of-paris-climate-talks/

    41

  • #
    pat

    what Prince Charlie actually said (which is all over the MSM):

    23 Nov: Reuters: Michael Holden: Climate change root cause of Syrian war: Britain’s Prince Charles
    Asked in the interview, which Sky said was filmed three weeks ago, whether there was direct link between climate change, conflict and terrorism, Charles said: ***”Absolutely.”
    ***”We never deal with the underlying root cause which regrettably is what we’re doing to our natural environment,” he said, noting that far greater problems lay ahead if climate change was not addressed immediately…
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/23/us-climatechange-summit-charles-idUSKBN0TC0NO20151123

    in usual CAGW fashion, we’re now asked to believe the Prince said no such thing!

    23 Nov: CarbonBrief: Roz Pidcock: Factcheck: Media reacts to Prince Charles’s comments on Syria and climate change
    A Sky News interview with Prince Charles has received a lot of media attention today. Though the interview itself isn’t due to air until later tonight, many of today’s newspapers are carrying comments by the Prince in which he ***appears to pin the blame for the Syrian conflict on climate change.
    Some of today’s papers appear to take their cue from the Sky News article trailing the in-depth interview with Prince Charles, due to air later tonight…
    Stronger wording from some other news outlets more directly ***suggests the prince pins the blame for the conflict on rising temperatures. The Sun’s front page says: “PRINCE Charles has blamed the rise of IS and the migrant crisis on climate change”. The paper’s lead editorial says making such a link is an “absurd idea”…
    The Prince’s words, as quoted in the Sky News piece, ***aren’t as strong as these headlines would suggest, however. Though the interview transcript isn’t yet available in full, he appears to identify climate change as one of several contributing factors, not the sole cause…
    Rather than suggesting climate change is a “root cause” of the Syrian conflict – as some of today’s coverage explicitly suggests – ***Prince Charles appears to use that particular phrase in the Sky interview to make a wider point about the growing risk of conflict over strained resources…
    http://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-media-reacts-to-prince-charles-comments-on-syria-and-climate-change?utm_content=bufferff18f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

    51

  • #
    Dennis

    ABC Radio National this morning, yet another try to scare the people discussion on climate change and, would you believe it, that Earth has thirty more years of CO2 emissions left at the current rate before disaster strikes. And when the governments finally get the message it could be too late.

    I thought you needed to know.

    80

    • #
      PeterPetrum

      Thank you, I am digging my shelter in the garden now. I am looking for a CO2 filter and an O2 supply in the next week or two. I might need it sooner than we think! Oh, hang on a minute, 30 years from now, at 75 why should I worry. I think I’ll stop digging and have a wee malt instead.

      80

      • #
        Vlad the Impaler

        I’d join you, except that at my age, it’s usually the other way around: I have a malt, then I wee … … …

        … then a malt, then wee … … …

        … … you get the idea … … …

        10

  • #
    pat

    22 Nov: Financial Times: Edward Luce: America’s inconvenient SUV boom
    Gas-guzzling models are back in vogue in the US, so why should poorer nations cut emissions?
    Rumours of the death of American car culture have been greatly exaggerated. The US is on course this year to post its largest vehicle sales since the start of the 21st century. The surge is being led by the return of the sport utility vehicle, which accounts for a higher market share than ever before.
    More than one in three US vehicle sales is an SUV. Though discontinued by General Motors, demand for second-hand Hummers is at an 11-year high. With numbers like these, President Barack Obama will have a tough sell in Paris next week. More than all its non-binding pledges, the global warming summit is meant to begin an era of new habits. If Americans won’t change theirs, will others follow?…
    As much as a half of India lacks reliable access to electricity…
    Under what circumstances could a semi candlelit democracy agree to a carbon haircut?
    The short answer is bribery. At the Copenhagen summit in 2009, western nations pledged to transfer $100bn a year from 2020 to subsidise cleaner fuels in poorer countries. But these numbers are aspirational. Nor would they be enough to make a big economic dent…
    In the US, there is both fanfare and gnashing of teeth over the “death of King Coal”. Though its share is dropping fast, coal still accounts for more than a third of US power output…
    Even if China continues to build new coal plants at its current rate, the average American pumps out three times more carbon every year than the average Chinese and more than 10 times the average Indian…
    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/c5582550-8f7d-11e5-a549-b89a1dfede9b.html

    61

    • #
      gai

      What did you expect after Obummer’s Cash for Clunkers took older heavier cars off the road? Give a choice of a nice heavy SUV or a golf cart as a vehicle in Boston or NYC or DC traffic what would you pick?

      20

    • #
      Just-A-Guy

      Edward Luce Manipulates The Facts

      He wrote:

      If Americans won’t change theirs, will others follow?…
      As much as a half of India lacks reliable access to electricity…
      Under what circumstances could a semi candlelit democracy agree to a carbon haircut?

      Neither India nor China will ever agree to cut their plans to provide reliable electricity to their citizens, regardless of what car Americans choose to drive or not drive. They simply couldn’t care less what anyone drives. What drives them is the need for reliable electricity.

      He also wrote:

      Even if China continues to build new coal plants at its current rate, the average American pumps out three times more carbon every year than the average Chinese and more than 10 times the average Indian…

      Yes, but there are so many more Chinese and Indians that the total production of CO2 is growing in those countries. What’s important is total CO2 production not per capita CO2 production.

      Both of these misleading statements, and the overall tone of the article by Edward Luce are only meant to impose a guilt trip on the Americans to change their behavior. It will have no affect on the policies of India or China.

      Abe

      00

  • #
    pat

    cutting energy use because you can’t afford the bills?

    23 Nov: EnergyLive: Laura Buckley: DECC: Smart meter customers cutting energy use
    Nearly eight out of 10 smart meter customers have taken steps to reduce their energy use.
    They include actions such as turning the lights off and heating down as well as changing the way they use household appliances.
    That’s according to DECC’s ‘Fourth Annual Report on the Roll out of Smart Meters’…
    It added more than eight in 10 (84%) people with a smart meter would recommend it to others.
    ***Industry experts recently said smart meters are a “key” incentive for customers to switch their energy suppliers…
    https://www.energylivenews.com/2015/11/23/decc-smart-meter-customers-cutting-energy-use/

    ***except for the fact that, if you change suppliers, your “smart” meter becomes “dumb”!

    10 Sept: UK Telegraph: Emily Gosden: One in 10 energy smart meters doesn’t work
    A tenth of energy ‘smart’ meters installed in British homes do not work and are functioning like traditional ‘dumb’ meters, official figures show…
    ***But figures show that 134,200 of the gadgets are not actually functioning as smart meters, because of problems when customers switch supplier, and poor coverage in the networks they rely on to transmit data.
    ***Currently if a household has a smart meter installed and then switches supplier, the new company may be unable to operate the smart meter they inherit.
    ***The gadget returns to ‘dumb’ mode and customers have to take manual readings, just as they would on traditional style meters.
    Customers therefore face a choice between sacrificing the new technology – which is supposed to help them save money – or forgoing the potential savings on offer from switching, which can be several hundreds of pounds a year…
    A fix for the problem to make different suppliers’ smart meters compatible is not expected until later next year, when a central communications system is due to start working.
    It was originally due to ‘go live’ later this year but has been delayed until April or October 2016…
    Smart meter technology installed in each home costs about £200, although there is no up-front charge for the household. The costs are instead shared across all energy billpayers and will be recouped by the energy companies over years to come…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/energy/11857093/One-in-10-energy-smart-meters-doesnt-work.html

    41

  • #
    ATheoK

    Ben Carson’s answers today are not the same answers he gave a year ago.

    Yes, Ben Carson is a surgeon, a very rich surgeon which is one indicator of how he views humans versus cash.

    Ben Carson is also a creationist. A surgeon who believes the Earth is 4000 to 6000 some years old isn’t very good at deciding basic issues of science. Does this make him anti-science? Until he speaks of it, or exhibits some ability to decide scientific issues, I do not know.

    He went from being very anti-2nd Amendment to somewhat 2nd amendment. A change in responses that shows he at least pays attention to polls, but it also indicates a politician like Hillary and Obama who dance to certain polls; i.e. ones they like.

    Ben Carson has not exhibited any ability to forge alliances and deals, even with opponents.

    I suspect that Ben Carson’s climate answers, like some 2nd Amendment responses are solely tailored according to the polls.

    After additional vetting, preferably in politics, I would consider voting for Carson in another few years. I would hate it, but I would vote for Trump over any of the Democrats currently in the running.

    I wouldn’t trust Fiorina with Compaq, let alone our whole country. And very much like a recent official of Australia, I wouldn’t put it past her to be lying to us and planning to invoke a carbon market upon election.

    40

  • #
    pat

    a must-read:

    22 Nov: ConservativeHome: Dan Lewis: Dan Lewis: Smart meters are a bad deal for consumers
    The biggest infrastructure project of this government is one most people haven’t heard of – the £11 billion smart meters programme. The goals are to automate gas and electricity meter readings, facilitate easier switching, create a new market for energy data and initiate some sort of two-way smart grid.
    The first thing to say is that this programme is not primarily for consumers. The projected chief beneficiaries, to the tune of £8.26 billion, are the suppliers. They will own the meters and mine the data they produce, while removing a big cost from their balance sheet – manual meter readings and customer billing complaints. Meter manufacturers like the programme too, because the long shelf life of electro-mechanical meters – easily 40 years – would give way to 10 year replacement cycles, interim upgrades and repairs that invariably come with electronic obsolescence…
    Consumers are funding the programme through their bills. Unfortunately, the benefits for them – put at £5.7 billion in energy savings – are lower than the costs. Moreover, these energy savings are based on assumptions that we can now see are questionable or just flat wrong…
    The case for consumers further degrades when you realise, as the Auditor General in the State of Victoria in Australia recently did, that there is no mechanism in place to transfer the benefits accrued to the suppliers back to the consumers. How many British bill payers would choose to spend £11 billion to get back £5.7 billion in energy savings?…
    But that’s far from all from what’s wrong…READ ALL
    http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2015/11/dan-lewis-smart-meters-are-a-bad-deal-for-consumers.html

    71

  • #
    pat

    if it was all about saving money for consumers, u can buy a device that does the job for ten quid!
    no mobile phone or living in a black spot? forget the smart meter.
    USwitch says find a more competitive supplier, but we now know how that works out. dumb move:

    15 Nov: FinancialMailOnSunday: Sally Hamilton: Smart meters might be the future for energy in our homes – but there’s a good reason to wait to install yours
    However, fast-changes in technology mean that many of those who have already taken the leap are in a state of limbo…
    Knowing exactly how much she was spending on energy on a regular basis inspired Fiona Broadhurst to take action on cutting her bills. And she is doing it without a smart meter…started testing an energy monitor called Loop Energy Saver earlier this year…
    Fiona, from Grimsby, got her monitor free, but it usually costs about £70.
    ***There is a wide range of plug-in monitors available that also display usage for as little as £10…
    ***Current smart meters communicate with providers through the mobile network.
    As with mobile phones, that means people living in high-rise flats, those in properties with particularly thick walls or who reside in remote country areas struggle to make the meters work.
    A new purpose-built communication network aims to iron out these problems. However, this has been hit by delays…now not expected to be up and running until August 2016.
    James Sprinz, energy technology specialist at research firm Bloomberg New Energy Finance, says: ‘I wouldn’t be surprised if it is pushed back even further.’…
    Sprinz is also cautious about the hoped-for savings, both in terms of energy usage and bill costs.
    He says: ‘Estimates that householders will reduce consumption by 2 per cent for gas and 2.8 per cent for electricity are optimistic – gas consumption in particular isn’t very flexible.’
    Another issue is the smart meter’s home display. He says: ‘It’s a waste of money. At £15 each that adds up to £800million.
    ‘The display was devised six years ago but is redundant because technology has moved on and people can use their smartphones to do the same job.’
    USwitch’s Robinson disagrees. She says: ‘The monitor is crucial to allow householders to easily see what’s going on with their energy consumption.’
    This, she believes, should provide enough information to shock homeowners into scaling back on the amount of gas they burn and electricity they use – ***or find a more competitive supplier…
    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-3318472/Smart-meters-future-energy-homes-s-wait-install-yours.html

    51

  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    Good one Jo!
    I’m a little late on this one, but I do like the way that you have ‘turned the tables’ on Borenstein, Mann and Dessler!
    What a crooked, topsy turvy, bunch they are! They’ll never get anything right!
    Geoff W Sydney

    50

  • #
    doubting dave

    AZ please delete .it can wait for another day . Whilst posting , i was on call and the phone rang :( hence instead of posting just the link i pressed the wrong buttons in the rush.Sorry about that. cheers

    30

  • #
    pat

    read all for the dollars involved…not to mention how the insurance companies must be lapping this up!

    24 Nov: Brisbane Times: Tony Moore: Qld climate change pilot study shows 4400 properties could flood in Townsville
    The Queensland Government is silently preparing Queensland for an 80cm sea rise, which would impact tens of thousands of homes by the end of the century, with pilot projects beginning along the Queensland coast.
    The first test pilot in Townsville was completed in July 2015 and shows almost 4400 properties would be flooded.
    The step comes as Queensland’s climate change strategists meet on Wednesday and as Australia prepares for the United Nations climate change conference in Paris on November 30…
    The Townsville study – completed by consultants ***GHD with the support of the LGAQ – shows some projects need to be implemented by 2027 in order to be effective.
    Fairfax Media understands the aim of the little-known, rarely-discussed Queensland Government Climate Change Adaptive Strategy is to replicate this Townsville pilot study in other cities…READ ALL
    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/qld-climate-change-pilot-study-shows-4400-properties-could-flood-in-townsville-20151123-gl608p.html

    plenty of Harvard connections:

    ***GHD Australia: Directors
    http://www.ghd.com/australia/about-us/directors/

    51

  • #
    KinkyKeith

    The next few days in Paris is expected to be hot.

    Wednesday is to have an unseasonal high of 10C but will moderate overnight to 2C and provide some relief.

    http://www.bbc.com/weather/2988507

    KK

    50

  • #
    handjive

    SMH: Prince Charles links climate change to war in Syria, terrorism

    “Some of us were saying 20 something years ago that if we didn’t tackle these issues, you would see ever greater conflict over scarce resources and ever greater difficulties over drought, and the accumulating effect of climate change which means that people have to move,” he said.
    ~ ~ ~
    As some things do, that comment triggered a memory about something I read by someone/name I vaguely recalled; Reeves-Moggs

    ‘oogle and in-fact; William Rees-Moggs. Strategic gloom and doom: Rees-Mogg on oil and Islam

    I am not endorsing, but offer it for anyone interested. Some quotes:

    “I do not believe that anyone can predict the timing of oil depletion, or its
    effect on oil prices. There are too many variables, …”

    “Islam is the unresolved problem.
    Certainly the West needs to show much greater insight into the Islamic revival, which will develop further.
    Arrogance, cultural supremacism or downright hostility must be the worst possible response.
    Yet, as in Serbia, the neighbours of Islam will find their own populations reacting to Islamic revival.
    It was fear of the Albanians in 1987 which brought Milosevic to power.
    The world is not going to find it easy to bind up the “bloody borders” of Islam.”

    50

  • #
    pat

    23 Nov: Politico: David Giambusso: Bloomberg derides state, federal action on climate change
    Former mayor Michael Bloomberg on Monday expressed little faith in the ability of state and federal elected leaders to make progress on climate change, saying that business, consumers and mayors will have a much greater impact.
    “Greenhouse gases in the United States have gone down 20 percent in the last few years,” Bloomberg said during a conference at the Council on Foreign Relations in Manhattan. “Why? Because the private sector financed the campaign, ‘Beyond Coal,’ … and we’ve closed 200 of the 500 coal-fired power plants in this country. No thanks to the federal or state governments. No thanks to them.”
    The theme of the conference was “Confronting Climate Change Ahead of the Paris Talks,” and Bloomberg was the main speaker. Bloomberg is the U.N. secretary-general’s special envoy for cities and climate change…
    “If they are against doing anything about climate change it’s because somebody is funding their campaign or they think that’s where the public is,” Bloomberg said. “They don’t have any views. They don’t have any beliefs.”
    Bloomberg said the public is not nearly as divided on climate change as political leaders and candidates…
    The Beyond Coal campaign, a Sierra Club initiative funded in large part by Bloomberg Philanthropies, was coincidentally staging a protest of Cuomo’s coal policy at City Hall just before Bloomberg began his remarks uptown…READ ON
    http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/albany/2015/11/8583886/bloomberg-derides-state-federal-action-climate-change

    21

    • #
      gai

      Bloomberg is a complete donkey’s rear end.

      The CO2 in the USA went down because we exported our heavy manufacturing and evasculated our economy. In 1970 about 24% of the labor force was in manufacturing. By 2010 it was down to less than 9%. In addition now we have 24% of the labor force out of work.

      All you have to do is look at the growth of India’s and China’s CO2 since that is where most of the US jobs went.

      20

      • #
        Just-A-Guy

        gai,

        You wrote:

        All you have to do is look at the growth of India’s and China’s CO2 since that is where most of the US jobs went.

        Another ‘Inconvenient Truth’ that’s lost on those influenced by group think. What this amounts to is nothing less than the transfer of wealth out of the US and into the economies of China and India. And while Oh Bummer and his administration continue to tout the number of so called ‘Green Jobs’ created in the US, they carefully ignore the much higher number of manufacturing jobs that are lost in the process.

        Abe

        00

  • #
    pat

    23 Nov: The Big Issue: Roz Pidcock: Will we ever see a white Christmas again?
    (Dr Roz Pidcock is science editor of Carbon Brief)
    Will we see a White Christmas again? Scientists say it’s still possible but climate change is dragging down the chances. Waking up on Christmas Day to snow blanketing the UK was common in the 18th and 19th centuries but has only happened four times in the past 50 years. We’d have a better chance of a White Christmas if we moved it back a few weeks, since it tends to snow more between January and March than in December. But that’s getting less likely too as the climate warms…
    The first line of defence against climate change is to cut our emissions. The easiest way to do that is to move away from using fossil fuels and towards something else for our energy. The technology already exists to get carbon-free energy from the wind, sun, nuclear power and even the waves and tides, and many countries are already doing this…
    http://www.bigissue.com/features/5941/dr-roz-pidcock-on-climate-change-will-we-ever-see-a-white-christmas-again

    22 Nov: UK Evening Standard: HANNAH AL-OTHMAN: London snow: odds slashed on a white Christmas as cold weather grips the capital
    Bookies have slashed the odds on a white Christmas as Britain shivered through a wintry weekend that saw a flurry of snow fall over the capital.
    Temperatures dropped as low as minus 6C in places overnight, with Topcliffe in North Yorkshire enduring the lowest temperature of minus 6C, while the mercury dipped to a chilly minus 5.6C in Benson, in south Oxfordshire.
    With temperatures in Britain as cold as those in Moscow, bookies have been forced to slash the odds on a white Christmas, with odds now on for festive snow in Scotland.
    Odds of a white Christmas in London are now at 4/1 – their lowest for several years…
    The last white Christmas was in 2010, and there was also snow on the ground the previous year.
    Odds of snow falling on Christmas Day in Liverpool, Manchester and Belfast are also 4/1, while Edinburgh and Glasgow have odds of 2/1, and Aberdeen 7/4…
    Weather experts previously said there will be 36 days of snow or ice across the winter months, with harsh temperature lows of -16C…
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-snow-odds-slashed-on-a-white-christmas-as-cold-weather-grips-the-capital-a3120391.html

    41

    • #
      gai

      He hasn’t been listening to the forecasters
      Nov 3 FOUR MONTHS OF HEAVY SNOW: Shock UK long-range weather forecast for THIS winter “James Madden, forecaster for Exacta Weather, said the first flakes of snow could arrive in just three weeks.”

      Piers Corbyn, is also forecasting a cold and snowy winter for the UK. He mentions “… wild weather extremes and contrasts follow from the wild Jet Stream behaviour….”

      Meanwhile in the USA Joe Batardi is forecasting snow and cold this winter for the east and south. We are seeing that here in NC. Balmy 70F one day and freezing 23F a couple nights later thanks to the the ‘wild Jet Stream’

      Accuweather is saying a storm system will dive southward along the West Coast into Tuesday before tracking eastward across the Rockies into Thanksgiving Day. Snow is expected to disrupt travel From California to Minnesota for this holiday weekend.

      Several states including Indiana have already had snow. Detroit has already shattered a 122-year-old snow fall record with more than a foot (30 cm) of snow. Chicago Il had the most November snowfall in 120 years with 17 inches. Sioux Falls, SD, had four times the previous snowfall record. Flagstaff Az has the earliest ski opening.

      Heavy snow has also fallen on Croatia, China and Finland this fall.

      20

  • #
    handjive

    After Godzilla El Nino, where can you go?

    I suggested a “Decepticon El Nino” in jest, but …

    ABC: Weather bureau to consider research showing female-named storms seen as less threatening

    “A name like Diablo may be associated with greater risk than a more benign male name,” Professor Shavitt said.”

    30

  • #
    Egor TheOne

    On Q&BS last night , the usual CAGW Kumbaya True B’lver crowd pontificated by science illiterate host T.Jones ,critical even of True B’lver Hunt !

    When is that show going to get what it deserves …..The Axe !

    As far as the US election goes …vote 1 Trump ,for the end of the CAGW BS .

    41

  • #
    pat

    23 Nov: UK Daily Mail: Tom Payne: King of Sweden calls for a ban on BATHS and admits he is now ‘ashamed’ to run one after realising how much energy they use
    King Carl XVI Gustaf, who once had a reputation as a lothario and is now a staunch environmentalist, said he realised how
    much water and energy they used when he was recently staying somewhere without a shower.
    The 69-year-old ‘green king’ told Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet: ‘It hit me how much water and energy it used.
    ‘I thought “I can’t believe I’m having to do this”. I felt quite ashamed.’
    Apparently in jest, he added: ‘We should ban all baths.’
    The Swedish head of state said he now drives an eco-friendly hybrid car, turning around his lifelong reputation as a ‘petrolhead’…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3329759/King-Sweden-calls-ban-BATHS-admits-ashamed-run-one.html

    31

  • #
    pat

    HORROR OF HORRORS! Stanford finds a few “coulds” & “mays” and freaks out:

    24 Nov: Guardian: Oliver Milman: California public school textbooks mislead students on climate, study says
    Books voice doubt over whether climate change is real and suggest global warming could be beneficial, researchers say in analysis of four science texts
    (MISLEADING) PHOTO CAPTION SAYS: California textbooks are misleading students when it comes to climate change, a study finds.
    Textbooks in California public schools are misleading students on climate change, with material that expresses doubt over whether it is real and promotes the view that increasing temperatures may be beneficial, according to a Stanford University study…
    “There is an ideology in these books. They use the same kind of language seen on climate change denier blogs,” she (KC Busch, of Stanford Graduate School of Education) said…
    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/23/california-public-school-textbooks-mislead-students-climate-study-says

    31

  • #
    pat

    registration required, but the headline says all I need to know about Saville’s piece. Saville spent much of her career at ABC & Fairfax, and it shows!

    24 Nov: Crikey: Margot Saville: Climate denier Ian Plimer takes on the people’s Pope
    http://www.crikey.com.au/2015/11/24/climate-denier-ian-plimer-takes-on-the-peoples-pope/?google_editors_picks=true

    00

  • #
    Alan McIntire

    Ted Cruz was valedictorian of hs senior class, he graduated cum laude from Princeton, represented Texas as solicitor bgeneral in 9 cases before the US Supreme court, and both of his parents earned undergraduate mathematics degrees, so you cannot call Ted Cruz stupid or ignorant with any credibility.

    00

  • #
    Rico L

    I hate the one sided logic. We must stop producing CO2. That is only 1 option.

    Option 2 – more trees.

    Nobody is pushing the more trees pathway. Then everyone is a winner, nobody has expensive electricity bills and kids get to climb more.

    00

    • #

      To get more trees, we need more CO2 in the atmosphere. Biomass is intrinsically limited by CO2, especially in the absence of mankind’s enrichment of the atmosphere with this important staff of life, water and sunlight being the only others which man has little influence over.

      00

      • #
        AndyG55

        Anyway, as CO2isNOTeveil says, give them more CO2 and trees will plant more of themselves.

        00

      • #
        Just-A-Guy

        co2isnotevil,

        You wrote:

        To get more trees, we need more CO2 in the atmosphere.

        To get more trees, all you need to do is plant them. Even if the concentration of CO2 were to remain at the current level of ~400ppmv, trees will still grow. More CO2 adds to the size of the trees, the volume of bio-mass in each tree. So trees, and more importantly crops, will grow better now than they did when the concentration of CO2 was lower.

        Abe

        00

    • #
      AndyG55

      “Nobody is pushing the more trees pathway”

      Hey? Isn’t that part of “direct action”?

      10

  • #

    Gullibility or corruptibility?

    I can’t believe Rand Paul is listening to his advisers on this issue rather than following his fathers stance. Paul’s advisers might as well be working at the Brooking’s Institute like Julia Gillard as far as I’m concerned. Why doesn’t he just run as a Minarchist Democrat and go up against Bernie Sanders instead of Trump? It would be less of a schmozzle.

    Even though the US system at least puts in a PERSON rather than just a Party, recent history (25yrs at least) shows that flip-flopping on key election issues is just business-as-usual to get elected whether you are an elephant or a donkey. I’ve lost count of how many key election promises Obama has flip flopped on (outright lied), and I don’t expect the American people can ever expect any different unfortunately, but at least their leader can’t be ousted in a spill so easily – unless they are Dealey Plaza’d of course :P

    00

  • #
    CC Reader

    The following satellite data contained in the document below displays a “pause” in CO2 starting around 2005. Please look at the ACOS graph in figure 6 as this data seems to support Dr. David Evans “Notch Theory” research which predicted a decrease in temprature starting around 2005.

    http://disc.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/featured-items/airs_acos_co2_satellite_observations

    Figure 6. Time-series of globally averaged CO2 mixing ratios from AIRS Version 5 (2002-2012) and ACOS Version 2.9 (2009-2012). A subset of the ground observations record at Mauna Loa Observatory (1982-2012) (Tans and Keeling, 2012) is given for reference.

    Figure 2. The mid-infrared spectrum of clean air in a 24 m cell. Main absorption bands of target gases CO2, carbon monoxide (CO), and water vapor (H2O) are shown. [After Howard (1959) and Goody and Robinson (1951)].

    00

  • #

    In the past three days in our grape growing area the Wine Industry has started to pick “ice wine” grapes that requires a constant temp of minus eight Celsius or colder, in some areas the temps were as low as -13. One of the earliest ever, and has now reached three years in a row an in general it happens in late December or January ( if at all). Global warming!

    00