JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

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Weekend Unthreaded, 6.7 out of 10 based on 28 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/o9hemor

238 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    Yonniestone

    First in worst dressed..

    30

  • #

    Okay then, in the lead up to Paris, they have been trying to nail down deals so that most can agree. To that end, they have been holding pre-Paris meetings in Bonn to try and finalise the text for anything to be agreed upon.

    I’m just beginning to work my way through these two documents, but hey, I can see why lawyers will make up a big part of any Country’s delegation.

    What is being written down here is eye opening to say the least, even on my first cursory look.

    They will be imploring every Country to cut back on emissions, but hey, when there are literally thousands of new coal fired plants opening up across Developing Countries, it would seem that most Countries are ignoring what the UN will be hoping for.

    I cannot see this agreement being signed unless most Countries will be quite literally being mendacious, signing up to one thing, and then going on to constructing new plants hand over fist.

    Perhaps other readers here might also like to cast eyes over all this as well, as one pair of eyes, mine, may not be enough.

    Some of these things are just astonishing really.

    This looks like the UN trying to take over the Planet.

    They will even be attempting to introduce a Climate Court. euphemistically referred to as the International Tribunal of Climate Justice. Over 130 developing nations led by South Africa and instigated by China and India are insisting that they will not sign a climate agreement in Paris unless it contains massive redistribution of wealth from developed to poor nations, so really, it is just all about the money.

    The two documents are pdf documents, so you’ll need a reader.

    UNFCCC draft climate agreement: June 11, 2015 (85 pages)

    UNFCCC draft climate agreement: October 20, 2015 (34 pages)

    Tony.

    201

    • #
      TdeF

      Recognizing the outcomes of the 2013–2015 Review, including the Report of the SED, which recognizes that “significant climate impacts are already occurring at the current level of global warming and additional magnitudes of warming will only increase the risk of severe, pervasive and irreversible impacts

      No ‘pause’ eh? No warming for 18 years, a decade admitted by the IPCC last year and even that warming barely detectable without modern instruments.

      What are these ‘significant climate impacts occuring’? What are the expected ‘additional magnitudes of warming’? This is goobedlygook (a US term for rubbish, imitating a turkey). The seas have not risen. No country is markedly hotter unless maybe 0.8C in an average in 120 years is scarey and most of that allegedly occurred before satellites and modern instruments.

      However you are right Tony. It is all about wealth transfer. Developing countries need to generate CO2 to improve their quality of life. If developed countries produce less CO2, does this mean developing countries (China, India etc) can produce more? How do carbon credits work then? We developed countries give them cash which they spend on doing nothing to generate CO2? Who manages the cash? This is nonsense.

      Carbon taxes have already channeled so much of Europe’s and US manufacturing to China. What do they want? Cash too?

      Let’s hope it is freezing in December in Paris, when most of this happens and that this is laughed off the stage, as happened in Copenhagen. The UN is the problem and has no business trying to tax the weather.

      271

      • #
        TdeF

        “additional magnitudes of warming”. Fascinating phrase. Meaningless. However one thing which comes out of this sentence is the declared total dependence on further warming for any man made ‘climate impacts’, past or future.

        There are so many other reasons climate changes, this makes it clear. The whole document and so the document is about man made Global Warming. Which isn’t happening according to the IPCC, no matter what their computer models say. So they may as well go home.

        121

        • #
          TdeF

          Doesn’t it puzzle anyone that Pacahuri two years ago and the IPCC last year could admit at least a decade of no warming and the IPCC does not change their forecasts and dire predictions for 2100?

          How can the IPCC be confident of their models if they cannot explain why the world is not warming?

          How can they reason that the warming is continuing but an exactly equal and opposite and perfectly timed and unknown natural cycle just cancelled it out? Isn’t it more likely that there was no warming in the first place? This document is like an agreement and invoice for the Emperor’s new clothes.

          201

    • #
      handjive

      FYI

      Everyone likes a flutter, but are you on the money when it comes to a Paris accord?

      Listen in: some old tipsters have whispered their prediction ahead of this December’s UN climate summit.

      What game theorists predict for a Paris climate deal:
      http://www.climatechangenews.com/2015/10/22/what-game-theorists-predict-for-a-paris-climate-deal/

      30

      • #
        TdeF

        Australia is missing, possibly one of the small island states? Surely not a developed country as we are utterly dependent on mining by overseas interests, agriculture by Japanese and Chinese owned businesses and eco tourism with no massive manufacturing like China and Brazil. We should seek compensation for the loss of beaches. After all we only have 37,000km of beach. Or does our British heritage of organization, stable government without corruption, working sewerage and steady development of infrastructure and education at our own cost and effort somehow disqualify us? No, we need compensation too.

        130

        • #
          KinkyKeith

          I’ll vote for that!

          50

        • #
          Peter C

          YES

          If we were to ask for money, instead of giving it away!

          I could possibly support that idea.

          80

          • #
            TdeF

            Go visit Shanghai. An ultra modern huge city, dragged from the 18th century in twenty years. Why can’t people help themselves? Most of the infrastructure we in Australia enjoy comes from our own hard work, not money from other people. All the requirements to build roads and sewerage and develop farms and mines are local, whoever invests in the place. We have our own currency and unlike some countries, the cities were not built by imported labour with imported materials. Education, health and infrastructure are choices and all it takes is intent. You can see the results in Afghanistan of a society which does not value education, especially for women.

            Most Russians are very poor but they are building their country after so much destruction but the greatest impediment was a political system which supported excellent education but by a combination of corruption and refusal to allow rewards for effort or just extortion, stifled a great country. So now these third world countries want the West to hand over cash or invite them all home? This is entirely the wrong thing to do. From the Phillipines to Bangladesh to Syria, they need a political system and administration which works. That is what the Romans taught the Britons and they taught the world. Call it the British model. Corruption is the evil which stops countries from developing and we are being asked to reward corruption and failure with shiploads of cash for ‘Climate Change’? Tell them they’re dreamin’.

            160

      • #
        handjive

        If you’re gonna make a bet, here is a cheat map:

        This map reveals which countries will survive climate change (and which countries are in big trouble) (inhabit.com)
        . . .

        10

    • #

      The CAGW industry has already decided that the world is going to fry and any discussion starts from there especially as the Paris Klimate Talkfest frenzy gets ramped up.

      A bit of balance with as a new 195-Page White Paper by French Scientists Declares:
      “The battle against global warming is an absurd, costly & pointless crusade’
      The Paris France based Mathematical Calculation Society, SA:
      ‘There is not a single fact, figure or observation that leads us to conclude that the world‘s climate is in any way disturbed, It is variable, as it has always been, but rather less so now than during certain periods or geological eras.’
      ‘Rising sea levels are a normal phenomenon linked to upthrust buoyancy; they are nothing to do with so-called global warming. As for extreme weather events – they are no more frequent now than they have been in the past.’
      ‘We are fighting for a cause (reducing CO2 emissions) that serves absolutely no purpose, in which we alone believe, and which we can do nothing about.
      You would probably have to go quite a long way back in human history to find such a mad obsession.’…

      This organisation is used by the French Government and others to review scientific claims for fraud.

      40

    • #
      Bill

      Unfortunately, you can no longer count on Canada to be a voice of reason. PETs Brat has committed the country into doing whatever the parisites want.

      10

  • #
    KinkyKeith

    The latest on the Volgograd Fried Moose-burger Chain

    http://joannenova.com.au/2015/10/alan-jones-talks-climate-paris-mainstream-scientists-caught-out-by-marohasy-in-parliament/#comment-1757112

    is that his son in law has decided to move the centre of operations up to Moscow to be closer to the supply source.

    It seems that of the 10,000 frozen Moose they will be able to get about three quarters of them out using chainsaws and truck them the shorter distance to Moscow.

    It was feared that the ice might melt if the frozen Moose were taken to Volgograd without proper refrigeration which the company can no longer afford. Fears of imminent global warming which might spoil the meat were also a consideration.

    Moscow health authorities have given the green light to this operation and the supply is expected to last for 7 months.

    For the first week after opening there will be a free shot of Vodka with every Moscow Moose Burger sold.

    KK

    60

  • #
    Stephan

    Study: “The vast majority of Americans prefer a distribution of wealth more equal than what exists in Sweden, which is often placed rhetorically at the extreme far left in terms of political ideology—embraced by liberals as an ideal society and disparaged by conservatives as an overreaching socialist nanny state.”

    424

    • #

      Yours in your usual twisted view. It’s pretty simple, people want fairness, they don’t mind some being richer, as long as it is deserved.

      “Ariely emphasizes that Americans want a far more equal society than they have, but it’s worth noting that they don’t actually want equality. The study finds that when asked to create a perfect society, respondents choose one in which those in the top fifth have about three times more wealth than those in the bottom fifth. ”

      The study showed people don’t really understand how wealth is spread in the US (so they don’t know about Sweden either). You misinterpret their desire to reduce the spread of wealth with a desire for swedish political systems.

      There would be a far smaller spread of income if there was more of a true free market. The price of money is set by unelected bureaucrats, and by printing too much money they’ve virtually ensured we get a world of aggressive takeovers and mergers, and wild speculation. This rewards the sharks and takes from the retirees and savers. If banks set their own rates on their own currencies, and were not bailed out when they got it wrong, people would do accurate risk assessments. It would harder to do rampant speculation. And inflation would not steal from the middle class and the poor.

      Though governments should make sure the markets are less corrupt. High frequency trading for example is a rort. It should be banned.

      342

      • #
        KinkyKeith

        Jo High frequency trading is just government sponsored theft and an appalling loss to Australian savers.

        Supposed to provide ” liquidity” to the market which is an anomaly.

        It’s very presence distorts the market and allows them additionally to siphon off huge amounts of our cash daily.

        Your Superannuation Fund is in the grips of Union Masters and The Finance Establishment.

        After what has happened in the share market in my lifetime I would advise people to put any spare cash anywhere but into shares.

        The share market seems to be run by the same people involved in the Global Warming scam.

        KK

        80

    • #
      AndyG55

      So what !!

      56

      • #
        KinkyKeith

        By “The vast majority of Americans’ he actually means Angelina, the united nations’ ambassador at large for increased emotive publicity.

        71

    • #
      handjive

      Sweden Close to Collapse

      “Sweden is fast approaching a complete collapse.

      More and more municipalities are raising the alarm that if the migrants keep coming at this pace, the government can no longer guarantee normal service to its citizens.

      It will not be long until the Swedes realize that the state will not look after them.

      The country that just 20 years ago was considered one of the safest and most affluent in the world, is now in danger of becoming a failed state.”

      by Ingrid Carlqvist
      October 17, 2015 at 5:00 am
      http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6697/sweden-collapse

      Translation of the original text: Sverige farligt nära kollaps

      100

      • #
        handjive

        Not only Sweden …

        Miro Cerar, the Slovenian prime minister, said the EU was days from collapse as his country buckled under an “unbearable” influx of migrants.

        “If we do not deliver some immediate and concrete actions on the ground in the next few days and weeks I believe the EU and Europe as a whole will start falling apart,” he said.

        But poorly dressed and under-fed, there are mounting fears they will fall victim to rougher seas and the Balkan winter that can reach minus 15C as they attempt to reach Germany and Sweden.

        Jean-Claude Juncker, the president of the European Commission, said a solution was urgently needed or thousands of refugee families facing winter temperature on the hillsides and freezing river-banks of Eastern Europe, would die.

        “Every day counts,” he said. “Otherwise we will soon see families in cold rivers in the Balkans perish miserably.”
        . . .
        Egad.

        What say you, Stephan?

        50

      • #
        KinkyKeith

        Probably the most important take away message from that link is that the government is “borrowing” money to support the immigrants.

        I would very much doubt that the voters of Sweden would agree to that since it will be their debt and a “no strings attached” gift to the

        “immigrants”.

        Isn’t this a modern day form of slavery? The credit for your work goes to someone else.

        KK

        10

    • #
      Another Graeme

      Re. “more equal distribution of wealth”, ok, it’s a given that some folk receive absurdly high remuneration while many hard working people struggle to maintain a basic lifestyle. The thing that gets me however is the sheer volume of unemployed and liberal arts students who believe they are entitled to the financial benefits received to those who work their arses off. “Tax them more!” they say. Well lovey, they’re already paying half their wage in tax while you pay none and are on benefits.

      10

      • #

        ….. “Tax them more!” they say …..

        Why bother taxing the one percenters, the very very rich, when you can tax absolutely everybody, but not only just all the people, but every shop, small and large, every industry, small and large, every government department, absolutely everything.

        An ETS is a tax on electricity generation, and the costs are passed down to EVERY consumer at every level.

        Just three cents per KWH, and hey, when expressed like that it’s just a pittance isn’t it, but here in Australia, that raises $5.1 Billion.

        Keep in mind that electricity generation is only around 40% of all emissions. Every cent at every level is passed onto consumers.

        You do the Maths.

        All of it sent off to the UN for wealth redistribution, at the root core of what Paris is really all about.

        Note the carrot that there might be some Governments who might look upon that as an attractive thing, but that’s just the furphy being spread by the UN, who know that they get it all.

        Tony.

        70

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘The Australia Institute’s recent polling showed that the majority of people believe their own circumstances fall roughly within the middle of the income distribution. Put simply, nearly all Australians think that average incomes are similar to their own personal incomes. For example, 58 per cent of those earning $20 – $40,000 per year think that the average
      Australian earns between $20,000 and $40,000 per year. Similarly, 51 per cent of people who earn between $100,000 and $150,000 per year think that the average Australian earns between $100,000 and $150,000.

      ‘… beliefs about income in Australia strongly reflect the respondents’ own circumstances. More than 80 per cent of people in the low and middle-income groups (up to $100,000) think that the average household income is either in their band or the one just next to it. The number falls of substantially though for those whose household income is $100,000 or more. Many of these people are aware that they are unusual in terms of income distribution.’

      Income and wealth inequality in Australia
      Richardson and Denniss July 2014
      The Australian Intitute

      60

    • #
      braddles

      Next time someone tells you that they want less inequality, point out that average worldwide GDP per capita is about $13,000 per year, and ask them if they would be happy to live on that, since that is what they would have to do if there was no inequality.

      40

      • #

        You need to parse for logic as they can reject the reduction to $13000 and still have less inequality. I think you mean people who want “total equality”. There must be some of those somewhere.

        31

    • #
      Reed Coray

      I don’t give a damn what studies say about people’s opinion of wealth distribution. Having lived for 71 years, to me it’s obvious that human nature being what it is, humans want a general redistribution of wealth only if either (a) they don’t have to contribute to that redistribution, or (b) they believe a larger part of the redistribution will reach them than they have to contribute to the pot. Just ask yourself how many people file income tax returns where they deliberately and knowingly omit legal deductions that would reduce their tax liability in the spirit of a general redistribution of wealth. Don’t ask how many people say they would; ask how many people actually behave that way. People give to charities that they deem worthwhile; but such behavior is not a general redistribution of wealth. It is money given by those who have an excess to a particular subset of those they believe are worthy of largesse. I’d be interested in a study that asks people if they favor a redistribution of their wealth. If you can find an appreciable number of such people, please put me in touch with them as I know at least one person who would gladly accept their redistributions.

      41

      • #

        so your age is your evidence? Weird. What about people who want social stability so that their lives actually improve even if they are actually worse off financially?

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        • #
          el gordo

          ‘What about people who want social stability so that their lives actually improve even if they are actually worse off financially?’

          Quality of life is a worthwhile goal.

          In Australia we have the luxury to experiment with these concepts.

          20

        • #
          Reed Coray

          More claptrap. Most people want social stability. The issue isn’t the desire for social stability, the issue is how do you get it? Government mandated welfare societies have failed every time they’ve been tried. See for example, the Soviet Union, the Mormon Churches United Order, etc. In my opinion, the reason they fail is that they’re inherently in conflict with human nature, which is to better your individual and your family’s lot. You work and produce to that end. If someone comes along and says you have produced more than you need and by action of law I’m going to take much of your excess (I the collector get to determine what is your excess), then most people will either (a) rebel or (b) stop producing at the point they no longer personally gain. Instead of putting in all that extra work to build a stockpile for yourself which will just be confiscated, you’ll engage in activities that you enjoy but don’t necessarily contribute to the gross product of your society. Such behavior is human nature. It may not be noble, it may not be altruistic, but it is what it is. If you believe the redistribution of wealth will lead to social stability, someone should remove your rose-colored glasses. All it will lead to and all it has ever led to is a net decrease in the produce of society and therefore an increase in the number of people who have less than they need. When that “less” reaches the point that they can’t survive, you’ll get to meet face to face the social stability you reaped. When you meet it, have a gun because you’re going to need it.

          40

          • #

            I didn’t say I believed it (stability as a motivation), but I certainly reject your insipid and jaundiced two motivations for wanting a redistribution.

            13

            • #
              AndyG55

              “insipid and jaundiced ”

              From you.. that is the height of irony !!

              Look in the mirror, leaf-brain!!!

              00

          • #
            el gordo

            Going back to your earlier comment: ‘I don’t give a damn what studies say about people’s opinion of wealth distribution.’

            They discovered ‘beliefs about income strongly reflect the respondents’ own circumstances.’

            The aspiring middle class has no time to think of revolution.

            30

      • #
        Rod Stuart

        I’d be interested in a study that asks people if they favor a redistribution of their wealth.

        Your comment brought to mind the Potlatch ceremony. This was banned in an amendment to the Indian Act in 1884 because the Europeans considered it to be wasteful.

        The Indians of the Northwest coast, unlike their nomadic cousins on the Great Plains, had some spare time after the activities necessary for survival. Potlatch was a fundamental part of the economic system of a number of tribes including the Haida, the Klingit, the Tlingit, etc.

        The Haida occupied some islands called “Haida Gwaii” (now called the Queen Charlotte Islands). Food was so plentiful, and the environment so friendly, that these folks had time to develop a culture remarkably similar to the Maori. Some archaeologists maintain that human occupation has existed on Graham Island for 30,000 years. For those interested in a natural adventure vacation I recommend it.

        Legend has it that the warlike Haida successfully captured five Portugese ships by stealth before the Europeans realised the danger. These people roamed the Pacific coast trading slaves as far south as the Baja penisula. No doubt the slave trade played an important role in the economy as well.

        10

    • #

      The opportunity to become wealthy is a strong incentive for people to work hard and create products / services that a lot of people want to buy.

      Nothing wrong with that.
      ,
      People who hold great wealth usually got it from providing a product or service that a lot of people liked and bought.

      Nothing wrong with that.

      People who hold great wealth have the strongest incentive, and greatest knowledge, to invest their wealth wisely, or to loan it to someone else, who they believe will invest it wisely … resulting in more products / services a lot of people want to buy.

      Nothing wrong with that.

      The incentives I’ve summarized will result in better products / services for all the people, compared with government
      bureaucrats running the economy.

      When someone creates wealth for themselves, and their family, they do not take wealth away from anyone else.

      What they give is products and services people VOLUNTARILY buy.

      I grew up in a small town of under 1,000 people.

      One family in town owned an insurance business, and were certainly millionaires (in the 1960s when one million had much more purchasing power than today) .

      They had a large home and property on top of a hill.
      A marble shower with six shower heads.
      (My friend was their grandson).

      They didn’t take anything from me or my family, or get any money from us (we didn’t buy their insurance).

      No one else was forced to buy their insurance.

      The town was better off having their business — their business had employees, and they spent some of their money in town.

      Only greedy or selfish people would want to take away their wealth, and “punish” them for their success.

      In the ultimate socialist economy — communism — party members have most of the wealth, and they get to tell everyone else how to live.

      Socialism — take from the rich and give to the poor – is just a half step in that wrong direction — an inferior economic system where high unemployment and slow growth are chronic problems.

      00

      • #
        Rod Stuart

        Hi Richard
        I was afraid you had flown the coop and wouldn’t come back.
        Your comment reminded me of something stuck in my memory.
        I recall reading a long time ago something written in the Soviet Union years ago.
        Prisoners in some gulag or other were hauling rocks in sacks on their backs.
        Some enterprising bloke managed to find a wheelbarrow.
        The authorities discovered it and smashed it to pieces. Justification : If everyone could not have a wheelbarrow, then nobody could have one.
        That is Socialism in a nutshell.

        00

  • #
    Rod Stuart

    NO finer meat than a young bull moose. (Unless it’s Bison)

    40

    • #
      KinkyKeith

      Haven’t tried it Rod.

      10

    • #
      Another Graeme

      I prefer baby seal :)

      21

      • #
        Bill

        flipper pie, prepared with a club.

        01

        • #
          AndyG55

          “prepared with a club”

          tenderised ?

          01

          • #
            Bill

            Pureed. Since nobody (except a few on the FRENCH islands of St. Pierre & Michalon (sp)) use the hapik the tenderizing doesn’t happen anymore. But Greenpeace still claims “clubbing baby seals” happens despite proof otherwise. BTW, did you know that the famous video of the baby seal clubbing was staged by GP as they couldn’t find any newfie sealers who used the hapik.
            Another interesting tidbit: Paul Watson (sea sheppard nut, pirate, terrorist) has a brother who used to serve in the Royal Canadian Navy. His brother HATES his guts with a passion and the one time they were both in the same area, tried to convince the ship captain to go hunt him down.

            01

    • #
      Joseph

      It was as nice a piece of meat as I’d ever eaten but I wasn’t told what it was until after I’d eaten it.
      Young bear.

      10

  • #
    el gordo

    Patricia was a fizzer at 67 knots, no fatalities recorded.

    151

    • #
      gnome

      The scaremongering associated with this storm is going to do the cause more harm than anything else.

      Looking at the pictures coming from Mexico now, and comparing them with the destruction of the forests wrought by Larry and Yasi just makes any suggestion that this was the worst storm ever totally risible. Building codes in Mexico might not have been at the forefront of modern technology, but neither were those of far North Queensland in the century or so before Larry and Yasi. The proper comparison is between leafy post-Patricia Mexico and the post-Larry or post-Yasi forests stripped of their leaves.

      I’m fairly sure that a storm which actually killed people would deservedly be called much worse than this one.

      172

      • #
        Peter C

        Yes , by this evening even the media hype had died down. No longer the worst hurricane ever recorded,

        Images showed one washed away bridge and one house destroyed.

        82

    • #
      Anthoyn

      I’m over in Caye Caulked, an island just of the coast of Belize, and the weather has nothing short of perfect.
      Waa expecting to get at least some rain or overcast weather from Patricia, but nothing.

      92

      • #
        Richard Barnett

        Beautiful place, visited several times, made many life long friends. Many if not most residents seem to believe that climate change will cause their island to be destroyed by rising sea level. It surprises me to see your post on a climate sceptic site. Spread the word in Belize. Many very smart people there who just need to look at oposing views.

        60

    • #
      handjive

      Why didn’t the UN do something to prevent this hurricane from forming?

      110

  • #
    Random Comment

    Regarding Paris and global treaties to limit production of greenhouse radiative gases, the audit process to confirm compliance with commitments will be interesting. I wonder how they’ll do that? Or, is there some sort of easy macro way that gives a fairly reasonable guesstimate?

    30

  • #
    Neville

    It’s about time we admitted that the increase in temp over the last 215 years ( Concordia study) of just 0.7 C and 0.8 C since 1850 claimed by HAD 4 isn’t much to get concerned about. The Lloyd study checked the ice core proxies from both poles and found an average deviation of about 1 C per century. That study of the past 80 centuries is much higher per century than our slight modern warming of 0.32 C and 0.48 C per century. And of course our modern warming comes with planet’s recovery from one of the coldest periods of the Holocene.
    Of course the Concordia study states that Aussies are responsible for 0.006 C of global warming since 1800. Fair dinkum what a load of crap.

    172

  • #
    el gordo

    Since the time of Christ there has been no increase in Antarctic snowfall.

    http://www.cato.org/blog/two-millennia-snowfall-accumulation-antarctica

    63

  • #
    Peter Yates

    This is an alternative scenario. However, you might recognize some of the details.
    - – - – - – - -
    I am a world-wide authority in the new science of ‘Very Large Pothole Events’ (VLPE). I am not officially qualified in this new science because, as yet, no universities offer degree courses for it. However, I did gain a Master’s degree in Zoology, and I have written two papers about these curious events that were peer reviewed by Siberian pothole experts.

    Some people say that there have not been any VLPE’s for the last 18 years despite the steadily increasing magma activity levels in the Earth’s crust. Those people are obviously not aware of the phenomenon that is now being called ‘Deep Underground Pothole Events’ (DUPE) [No, not as in 'duped'!]. I am confident that Pothole Events are still happening. We just can’t see them because they are deep underground. I believe it won’t be long before the Events will resume on the surface. My research indicates that the first country to see their return will be New Zealand.

    I have discovered that a huge, very deep pothole five miles across is going to appear in the North Island of New Zealand within the next few years, or within the next several years. There are strong indications that the appearance of the pothole will be preceded by catastrophic volcanic eruptions.

    The New Zealand Government must begin evacuations from the North Island volcanic areas as soon as possible because I am 95% certain that the VLPE will be followed by other Large Pothole Events, probably under the nearest towns and cities. The output of my many computer models closely verify this prediction.
    - – - – - – - -

    Since I haven’t said how or why any of that is possible I hope you won’t just assume that I am correct… even if you are told that a certain percentage of scientists believe that it is true. Those scientists are either being misrepresented, or they are not using the very long established scientific method. Consensus and belief are absolutely not regarded as being a part the method. Followers of it would need some proof, or empirical evidence, that backs up the extraordinary claims. Otherwise, I could say something like: “I’ve found a new species of apple tree that has the apples falling upwards!” and everybody would believe me without question.

    The take-home-lesson is: *Just saying it doesn’t make it true*, especially if the ‘authority’ or doomsayer is likely to make a profit (or gain something) out of the doom saying.

    100

    • #
      KinkyKeith

      Peter, it’s funny that you mentioned these potholes and Siberia in the first sentence.

      Apparently they are well known in Russia and when the representatives of the Volgograd Fried Mooseburger Chain couldn’t find their meat

      supply they immediately suspected that the animals had been lost to a VLP.

      (http://joannenova.com.au/2015/10/alan-jones-talks-climate-paris-mainstream-scientists-caught-out-by-marohasy-in-parliament/#comment-1757112

      It was two weeks before they discovered the beasts huddled together in the next valley over encased in snow and ice.

      Unfortunately the snow and cold got them all and they have been there for two years now although they may still be usable. (see above)

      As per local tradition – http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2725/prehistoric-its-whats-for-dinner – some of the locals tried the meat on a few that had been exposed the next summer and had no ill effects.

      Still, I think it’s very important to always keep in mind the message in the last line of your post.

      The Volgograd Fried Mooseburger Chain is not owned by Putin’s son in law; I’m sure he is able to make much easier money.

      KK :)

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      handjive

      “I am a world-wide authority in the new science of ‘Very Large Pothole Events’ (VLPE).”

      Well may you joke about the 97% settled science ‘potholes’…

      NASA Satellites Detect Pothole on Road to Higher Seas

      While the rise of the global ocean has been remarkably steady for most of this time, every once in a while, sea level rise hits a speed bump.

      This past year, it’s been more like a pothole: between last summer and this one, global sea level actually fell by about a quarter of an inch, or half a centimeter.

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        TdeF

        Of course La Nina and El nino, the standard answers to everything. However consider it may mean the total amount of ice and sea ice added at record levels in Antarctica far exceeded the annual melt of the thin Arctic ice? The start of a new ice age. Of course Antarctica is in the colder Southern Hemisphere, perhaps 30C colder than the Arctic, so no one suspects a thing in the North while activists complain about Arctic sea lanes being open to traffic and no one is picking up Polar bears.

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        Geoff Sherrington

        handjive,
        Irregular measurements of sea level rise…
        I keep on writing of the uncertainty arising from next to no knowledge of the behaviour of the deeper 50% of the oceans. On exposed land, we see events like earthquakes accompanied by new elevations above sea level, sometimes with a fault escarpment of 10s of cm.
        They are real where we see them. Elevation changes below sea level.It is plausible that the deep ocean floors are going higgledy piggledy at a rate sufficient to affect the sea surface level at the sub-mm to mm/year scale, some years. It would be unscientific to deny this “known unknown”. And that is additional to temperature changes causing expansion of these very deep waters, for continental spreading is documented and accepted along mid-ocean ridges, with occasional extra warmth unquantified as to how hot over what area.

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    Chris

    There is a natural spectacle in South Australia where there is a mass spawning of cuttlefish near Whyalla. Numbers have been down to such an extent that there was much concern over their future.

    Turns out cuttlefish like a little global warming (or at least local warming).

    “Colder than average winter water temperatures were experienced in 2011, 2012 and 2013.

    When in warmer waters, hatchlings were able to grow faster and, when released, were less likely to be attacked by smaller predators.”

    The full article is here.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-21/giant-cuttlefish-numbers-bounce-back-in-south-australian-waters/6873292

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    Alfred

    Wind Turbines
    Hosea 8:7
    7 For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind: it hath no stalk: the bud shall yield no meal: if so be it yield , the strangers shall eat it up.
    We are being told we should plant great wind turbines,but the wind is really nothing, you can’t hold it,it will not produce any substance. Even if it did produce food someone else would benifit from it That sounds like the wind industry to me.

    Eccl. 5:16…….what profit hath he that hath laboured for the wind?

    John 3:8 KJV

    8 The wind bloweth where it listeth , and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh , and whither it goeth : …..

    Gal. 6:7
    7 Be not deceived ; God is not mocked : for whatsoever a man soweth , that shall he also reap .

    Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind. If the wind is nothing how can the whirlwind hurt you you may ask. Well if you waste your time
    your energy and your funds on nothing it will really hurt. Insult to injury. If you have ever been scammed you know what I mean.

    Alfred

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    PeterK

    Having just gone through a Federal Election here in Canada where the Conservative Government lost out to the Liberals who will take over power in early November and will join the band wagon on global warming, I thought the following was appropriate to post with regards to politicians!

    http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/uncategorized/a-politician-dies-and-forced-to-spend-day-in-hell-what-happens-next-is-priceless

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      doubting dave

      Peter thanks for that it made me chuckle,there has been a good mix of politics and religion in the posts and comments on Jo’s blog this week and due to that i want to post a recent radio interview from one of my favourite authors of recent times , Joe Atwill. He is the author of a controversial theory that Christianity was invented by the Roman Emperor Titus Flavius as a social engineering tool or weapon of mass pacification to be used against rebellious Jews of the time.Later Constantine ( also a Flavian) created the feudal system , expanding christianity to encompass and pacify the whole of the Roman Empire , in this radio interview however, Joe looks at what he see’s as social engineering in modern times, especially as far as the next election in the States is concerned, inparticular he savages democrats especially Hillary Clinton, it takes a while for Joe to get into his stride so you’ll have to be a little patient, but i would really like to hear the views of commenters here whether in agreement or not.You only need to listen to the first 15 minutes as thats the part that interests me . Thanks and cheers. PS unfortunately for some unknown reason the link i’ve given does’nt seem to want to start at the beginning so you will have to rewind it back to the start manually sorry about that but please bare with it and thanks again for your patience https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMYyCzMDV8E

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    Robber

    Paris will be run by true believers – science is settled remember, so no skeptical scientists will get in the way of the UN world government advocates and those seeking handouts from the gullible wealth-creating nations.

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    Peter C

    Where Is Malcolm taking the Liberal party now?

    He is taking th e thoughts of Chairman Mao as his inspiration.
    http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/chairman_maocolm/

    If he turns the Liberal Party into Labour, but without the unions, would people vote for them?

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    • #
      ianl8888


      If he turns the Liberal Party into Labour, but without the unions, would people vote for them?

      Oh, yes …

      20

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      AndyG55

      I have voted Liberal for many years.

      If Turnbull is still there at the next election, I will vote Labor in the HoR and ALA in the senate.

      Labor is far less left wing than turnbull, and people are starting to figure that out.

      If Labor can swap out Shorten for someone with a brain.. (so NO, not the Pleb), they could easily beat Turnbull.. Shorten is the one holding Labor back.

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      AndyG55

      ps. Turnbull has all the makings of a socialist totalitarian dictator, and Conservative voters should do everything in their power to make sure he is NEVER elected PM.

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    braddles

    I am puzzling over some figures regards the cost of energy. Perhaps someone brighter than me could comment.

    Various sources say the energy yield from one litre of gasoline is about 10 kWh. Currently that is about $1.20 in Australia or 12 c per kWh.

    On our latest electricity bill we paid 28c per kWh for electrical power delivered to the home.

    So how can an electric car be cheaper to run than a petrol car that is otherwise similar?

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      Graeme No.3

      A car engine is less efficient in converting those potential kWh’s into actual use (20-25%) than an electric motor.

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        Engine efficiency varied widely. Peak efficiency is more than 50% in some turbo-diesels. Efficiency can be “a problem” in diesel engined cars as they may require a supplementary heating system in temperate and colder climates. Some of the “waste heat” from the engine is typically used for heating the vehicle’s interior; and for re-heating the very cold air leaving the airconditioning system’s evaporator on warmer days.

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          Willard

          Correct Bernd, modern turbo Diesel engines can have an efficency of up to 52% if serviced correctly with clean filters and running at optimum revolutions, also bearing in mind that the engine should be matched to the load it’s carrying to get close to achieving that figure, in reality very few vehicles get close to that figure due to variation of engine revs in traffic, or the vehicle sitting stationary in traffic burning fuel but going nowhere, the modern turbo diesel is a very handy piece of machinery in marine applications, heavy haulage, mining and genuine off-road vehicles but as far as its efficency compared to an electric motor in a passenger car it’s not even close.

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            Rubbish. vis e.g. Audi V6 TDI 2.7 and 3.0 litre.

            Efficiency has SFA to do with engine oil lubrication and its filtration. It’s the combustion cycle and its control.

            BSFC for large diesel engines has been below 200 g/kWh for nearly a century. Junkers’ Jumo 2-stroke diesel engines were flying at 45% thermal efficiency in the mid 1940′s. Derived engines (e.g. Napier Deltic) power(ed) trains, boats and tanks. Modern fuels and modern control systems provide for even better combustion control strategies.

            Diesel engines, being quantity-regulated and compression-ignition, have a far more consistent specific fuel consumption than quality-regulated gasoline (spark-ignition) engines. Ignition and combustion is possible over a very wide range of air-fuel ratios, all the while maintaining consistent pre-ignition pressures. The result is that efficiency remains closer to peak throughout much of its load range; reflected in significantly lower fuel consumption in practice.

            Comparing the efficiency of the electric motor to that of the diesel can only be done with reference to the primary source of energy. In Australia, there’s no thermal power station that can supply electrical power with sufficient conversion efficiency to charge a battery and to give an electric motor a chance of competing against the efficiency of a good turbo-diesel.

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              Willard

              Never mentioned Oil filters Bernd, Poor quality or poorly maintained air filters on the other hand can reduce an internal combustion engine significantly.
              Now it’s interesting you link the efficency of an electric motor to the thermal efficency of the source of electricity but you fail to mention the energy losses of Diesel fuel through refining and transport of the fuel in the first place, clutching at straws again Bernd.

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                AndyG55

                Man, you really have drunk the hallucinogenic Kool-aide haven’t you..

                tell me,, have you mortgaged your home yet to buy one?

                I dare you.

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      Rod Stuart

      Graeme gave you the correct answer. But you might want to mull over this and this.

      Another couple of points:
      If you consider the efficiency of charging the battery as well as the electric motor efficiency you are likely looking at 0.95 x 0.95 = 0.90
      So that is effectively 0.28/0.90 = 0.31/kWh for electricity
      So that is effectively 0.135/0.25 = 0.54/kWh for petrol (I don’t know where you buy your fuel, but where I live in Australia it is about $1.35).
      However, In about three years you will need to spend about $7500 on new batteries. An electric car will require a capital investment of how much?
      How far would you need to drive in a year to provide an attractive cost/benefit ratio?

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        Willard

        Best you do some up to date research on Electric cars before commenting Rod, car makers have gained a lot of info about battery management over the past few years, if treated with due respect an EV battery will last far longer than 3 years, a car manufacturer giving an 8 year warranty on batteries is showing confidence in their product.

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      • #

        electric motor efficiency you are likely looking at 0.95 x 0.95 = 0.90

        This is nearly ideal. The electric motors in electric vehicles aren’t necessarily operated around that sweet spot of electrical power efficiency. They don’t have the same electrical to mechanical conversion efficiency at all loads and speeds. High load, low speed or even high speeds combined with low loads can have electric motor tractive efficiency dip below 10%; i.e. 90% of the electrical power recovered from the battery is being converted to heat.

        The worst situation is high torque and low speed; that “infinite torque” requires “infinite” current with concomitant high drain on the battery with internal resistance so the battery will heat up quickly and have a low recovery efficiency.

        Contributing to the range anxiety experienced by drivers of electric cars is that driving more slowly increases the “parasitic losses” in running a car; ventilation, heating and airconditioning are examples of power demands that are constant with time that the vehicle is in operation. They’re sort of “optional”, but others such as windshield wipers, lights and servo-amplifiers for braking systems are not. Nor is cooling e.g. Lithium batteries on a hot day so that electrical power can be drawn from them without excessive wear on the battery.

        The “fuel gauges” in EV’s are predominately decorative as the available amount of electrical power depends on how quickly it is being drawn and the ambient conditions such as temperature. There’s also the operational history of the battery. You can put 45 kWh of electrical power into an EV’s battery, but you’ll _never_ get all of that back out again. The “fuel gauge” in an EV is only “accurate” near practical exhaustion. And the battery can, in most cases, only every be run down to the 25% level of nominal capacity; or the battery’s life risk being shortened significantly.

        Electric cars tend to be heavier than equivalent ones with internal combustion (IC) engines. That means higher rolling resistance; more energy required to move the car over the same trip. High-end EV’s of premium price use sophisticated materials to reduce vehicle (mass) weight but applying those same materials to IC-engined cars also lightens those cars and makes them more efficient.

        The energy density of liquid petrochemicals such as petrol and diesel is immense and the ability to transfer that energy into the vehicle’s energy storage reservoir is, compared to battery recharge rates, “phenomenal”. A (very large) 100 kWh EV battery has ideally the nett equivalent of 50 litres of petrol in a sub-optimum car; which takes less than 5 minutes to put into a car. Anywhere where the car is located. [Comparing it to Diesel fuel use in a modern turbo-diesel; approximately halves the volume of fuel.]

        P.S. The retail price comparison isn’t fair; there’s about 40 cents/litre in fuel excise for road use in Australia. Diesel fuel without that excise would retail for under 90 cents/litre; petrol potentially below 70 cents/litre. Why would EV’s be exempt for the taxes that are supposed to pay for the roads when the EV’s are heavier and therefore would tend to wear out the roads more rapidly?

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          KinkyKeith

          Liked the ps.

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          Willard

          Hey Bernd, aren’t you the guy who made this claim about Electric cars a little more than 3 years ago, let me quote for you; ” The result is that electric cars will be city bound; as the range is limited to about 100kms in practice and will probably have no more than 2 seats”.
          Wow, what a prediction, couldn’t have got that more wrong.
          Gotta say though, you do talk in big words, to most people it would hide the real facts.

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            This “claim”? That was 6 years ago. It wasn’t a prediction. It was a rational deduction based on available technology and physical limits.

            It still applies in practice for those people who don’t have $100,000 (plus luxury car tax – about $180,000 buys you up to 409km range at 110km/h in 40°C heat with a/c on) to spend on a new car every 3 years. Range anxiety:

            Fortunately, we had one of those strokes of luck on that chilly evening in Morro Bay, and our chase car rooted out the location of the one charger in town before our $100,000 toy died. But had we needed even another five minutes to find it, we could’ve been in a world of hurt. Pushing a two and a half-ton car up a hill doesn’t sound fun.

            But it doesn’t make any difference what the 0.1% of road users can afford to buy. It’s “academic”. You can do almost anything given enough time and money. Most people don’t have that money.

            For well-heeled “ordinary folk”, a daily range of a maximum of less than 200km makes the cars “city cars”. It’s a daily range because it typically takes hours to recharge completely. Small European cars such as the Renault Zoe get 182 km; at most. The VW E-Up!’s range is a maximum of 135 km. EV’s cost 50% to 100% more than similar IC-engined models from the same manufacturer.

            How long does it take to cross the Nullabor in an (plug-in) electric car? How long does it take to recharge an 85kWh battery from a domestic wall outlet?

            Don’t accuse me of trying to hide something by using big words, Willard. I talk in “big words” when they are necessary to describe something precisely and concisely. Facts can include “big words”. Many facts need “big words” to describe them.

            Where are your “facts”? Where are the numbers for practical application?

            Without numbers, one cannot have a sense of proportion.

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              Willard

              Your “vision” of Electric cars has been updated a number of times yet not the part about 2 seats and 100kms, you have also repeated that line on this site back in Jan 2013, time to connect with 2015 Bernd.
              BTW, there are other EVs that cost far less than $100k that have 4/5 seats and travel over 100km, best you update your “vision”.
              Bernd, you can print all the facts and figures you wish but in 2015 an electric motor can propel a passenger car far more affectively than a similar size passenger car with a Internal combustion engine.

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                My vision? Why put that word in quotes? I’ve not used that to describe my rational assessment. Perhaps you can’t deal with facts and figures.

                So tell us Willard which real EV’s carry 4/5 passengers reliably and substantially further than 100km. And while you’re at it, tell us how one quantifies and measures “affectively”. Rational people make judgments based on measurable quantities.

                How far do they travel and how much do those EV cost? I see your hands waving but no numbers.

                How long would they take to cross the Nullabor? Not even a waving of hands.

                Can one seriously consider taking the EV from Perth to Albany or Wave Rock and back for the weekend?

                How about a hot summer’s Sunday drive from Rockingham to say York and returning via Beverley?

                Remember those guilt-free Sunday drives? Or are those only for the people who have $100,000+ budget for a new car?

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              Willard

              I can deal with facts and figures Bernd, because it’s 2015 and facts and figures on EVs are now becoming reality, interestingly Bernd you probably know a fair bit about EVs but only mention the downsides, sadly for you those downsides are dwindling, the electric car is very soon going to dominate the passenger market as the price drops, EVs are cheaper to operate, more reliable, have far less maintenance and are much safer.

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                So you’ve got no facts at all to back up your claims.

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                AndyG55

                And they rely TOTALLY on coal fired electricity. :-)

                Imagine trying to recharge one overnight on solar.

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                KinkyKeith

                Consistently FFR

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                Willard

                So tell me AndyG55, why do you have a problem with Coal? It’s locally sourced, cheap and Australia has a huge supply, you really have a problem fella if your gonna bag Aussie coal.

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                AndyG55

                Ah Willard, you misunderstand me.

                I have absolutely no problem with coal or gas. Its the fact that the whole farce of electric cars will have to run on electricity from somewhere.

                The ONLY sources that can CONSISTENTLY supply the needed electricity are coal, gas and nuclear.

                Electric cars are meant to reduce CO2 emissions.. yeah.. ok ;-)

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                AndyG55

                batteries. and in Australia particularly… distance. are a major issue.!

                Liquid fuels will not be displaced easily.

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                Willard

                Where does it say Electric vehicles are supposed to reduce CO2?
                Does CO2 concern you?
                Please go on?

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                AndyG55

                Why are you misinterpreting everything I say?

                Yes the current low level of atmospheric CO2 does concern me.

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                AndyG55

                Willard.. if you listen to the “agenda”, the whole reason for electric cars is to reduce CO2 emissions.

                But they don’t !!!

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                gai

                I consider electric cars completely useless. For my work I drive a MINIMUM of 160 km and often two or three times that in a day. I am also normally hauling 4,000 lbs of gear not including the trailer.

                Electric cars are toys for snobby Socialist Yuppies with more money than sense.

                Oh and the vehicle I drive is a diesel built in 1991 and still going strong with over 900,000 km on the odometer. After the last tune-up** she can climb a hill hauling a trailer and easily pass those electric toy cars.

                **We drove 1800 km round trip to have Jim Jessup do his “performance tune-up” on both our diesels and I wouldn’t trade either of them in for a brand new vehicle of any kind. We often have offers to buy when we stop to fuel-up.

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                Willard

                Cool story bro! And because you need a vehicle to tow 4000lbs of gear on a 1800km round trip Electric vehicles don’t suit your needs the rest of the country should be forced to keep driving inefficent, high maintenance, expensive to run iICE cars, oh I get it your just another one of these “me” people , it’s about you and your needs and stuff everone else.
                Keep driving your Diesel gai, no one’s stopping you, someone has to keep the Saudi’s rich so they can buy up more Euro football teams.

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              This just in:: (translating loosely and selectively)

              Lord Mayor of Stuttgart’s Electro-Smart is a Non-Starter
              Lord Mayor Fritz Kuhn’s (Greens) won’t start any more and is to be replaced. The Smart was only four years old and had not even traveled 24,000 kilometers. The Lord Mayor, who campaigned with the ambiguous slogan “driving smart” for electric vehicles, now awaits delivery a new Smart.

              The battery charging system has failed, is beyond repair and the whole car is being replaced. An A-Class Mercedes is on loan until the replacement, production 2-seater Electro-Smart (of the old model) arrives. Daimler AG, who make the Smart, said that the failure of the charge unit wasn’t certain, only that the battery was failing to charge. Besides, the Lord Mayor’s lump of hazardous waste was from pre-series production and that the later Electro-Smart model was completely different.

              Production of Electro-Smarts has however ceased; pending the introduction of a new model 453 with electric drivetrain — only combustion engined models are in production and on offer.

              Mercedes Benz Australia announced withdrawal of Smart (including the 453) from the Australian market. Also not surprising is VW’s withdrawal of the Up! from the market down-under. Competition in the motorised shopping trolley market is tight. And it seems that even in the “wealthy” Western Europe, that it doesn’t make financial sense.

              e.g AutoBild’s evaluation of the e-Up! equates the costs of “fuel” as being equivalent to a petrol-engined car using 2.4 l/100km; but the €15,000 extra costs of the electric car and the high depreciation costs bring operating costs to a total of €300/month. The car can hardly be driven the 5000 km a month to make it economcally viable; recharging off a domestic power outlet takes around 9 hours; giving as little as 80 km range in cold weather. Perhaps pizza delivery operators might break even; accummulating the necessary 60,000 km in the city every year (typically 8 hours on the road every day of the year) to make financial sense.

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                Rod Stuart

                An observation I made a few years ago in Europe was that the cars might be smart, but their drivers are STOOPID!

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          Rod Stuart

          That’s all spot on, Bernd.
          The point about the tax on petrol and diesel is poignant.
          Just another example of bureaucratic numbskulls interfering in the market place.
          Without that interference, we could be free of bird munchers, ugly solar panels, and electric motors would be in golf carts where they belong.
          One point that doesn’t occur to Australians is the requirement for a heater in the passenger compartment.
          How would a 5 kW space heater affect battery performance at minus 40 C?
          However, it all flies in one ear and out the other of dreamers without a clue. Some people apparently don’t require any evidence, data, or computation.
          Emotive thought rather than logic propels these folks I suppose.
          And simultaneously con artists like Elon Musk just milk the system for all it’s worth, and the sheeple lap it up. (in simple terms)

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            Willard

            Rod, tell me where it’s minus 40C in Australia? and why would you have a 5kw heater in a car with less than 3 cubic metres of interior space?
            And know one is saying EVs shouldn’t be taxed for using public roads, but it’s interesting Bernd made the point that EVs are heavier and cause more wear to the road, he failed to point out that all the fluids dropped by ICE cars cause damage to the road surface and lead to more accidents.

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            • #

              he failed to point out that all the fluids dropped by ICE cars cause damage to the road surface and lead to more accidents.

              All the fluids? Like water? Which fluids cause damage to the road’s surface when they’re in drips? Where are cars still allowed to drip anything other than water onto the roads?

              You’ve failed to point out the trip hazards to pedestrians in areas where EV are being recharged.

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                Willard

                Fluids like petrol and diesel, gearbox oil, diff oil, brake fluid, power steering oil, a small percentage of Australia’s 13 million passenger vehicles dripping small amounts of this stuff on to the road adds up very quickly, just look at the road leading up to traffic lights or stop signs, over time it causes damage to the road surface and reduces its grip. Now tell me about the public tripping over a charge cable in a private garage or an EV charge station that is clearly marked and surrounded by bollards? Your clutching at straws now Bernd.

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                Comedian Willard scribbled:

                Fluids like petrol and diesel, gearbox oil, diff oil, brake fluid, power steering oil

                Dripping brake fluid? What sort of suicidal boîte de merde are there in your part of the world? Such vehicles are at most a temporary issue. Petrol leaks are a similar situation. “Fried-out Kombi” should be a familiar phrase.

                Perhaps you’ve not noticed but all EV sold have some sort of mechanical braking system employing hydraulic actuation (you should check your copy of the ADR on permissible braking systems for new cars); and indeed most have some sort of mechanical traction power transmission lubricated by oil. The higher-performance ones also circulate liquid coolant. Power steering in most new cars, except the cheapest models has tended to be electro-mechanical for the past decade. i.e. no fluid.

                It’s also escaped your notice that the road use of boîte de merde in Australia has declined sharply since small cars became more affordable and that the invariably incontinent cars have for the most part been sent to the recyclers. Except those like old Kombi vans favoured by the flower power culture whose cognitive dissonance prevents them from seeing that their jaunts to the next Gaia-worship festival are at the expense of emissions of real pollutants 100 times and more greater than those from a naughty modern VW diesel. Toxic and carcinogenic pollutants like carbon monoxide and HC’s including benzene.

                Painting flowers on the side seems to the owners to be a fair environmental offset. They obviously didn’t intend to hurt Gaia.

                As for charging EV: Not everybody has a private garage. Tesla Forum and dedicated EV fora discuss that as a real problem.

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                Rod Stuart

                Remember the Cosby character “Old Weird Harold”?
                Well, “Old Weird Willard” seems to have been electrocuted.
                That news about the Lord Mayor of Stuttgart must have finished him off.

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                Rod Stuart

                I know this thread is as old as Methuselah, but this just in:
                In Georgia, where heaters are not required in vehicles, the $5,000 USD subsidy came off electric cars at the end of June, after fifteen years.
                The result is that the demand for electric vehicles suddenly disappeared.
                Who would have thunk it? Willard, you best head for Georgia and corner the market.

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              Rod Stuart

              This may come as a shock Willard, but believe it or not, Australia is not the only geographical location which uses motor cars as a means of transport.
              As for your question about the need for heating in the passenger compartment, may I recommend that you try driving an old VW beetle (air-cooled engine) some time in Northern Canada, Alaska, or Siberia. Just one such experience will answer your query for you.
              Your entire fairy tale is littered with equivocation. The point about the tax on fuel is in connection with making an honest comparison of energy costs associated with conventional vehicles vs your fantasy. As for dropped fluids causing damage to the road surface and leading to accidents; please supply some empirical evidence that might suggest you have a clue.

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                Willard

                Yep,lots of them EV thingies in very cold Norway,
                You could tax EVs at an equivalent rate as an ICE vehicle using the average fuel tax an Australian pays now (even round it up a bit) and an EV is still far cheaper to drive.

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              • #
                Rod Stuart

                There once was a young lass from Norway
                Who swung by her heels in a doorway
                Whenever you finish, hurry right back
                Because indeed I have thought of one more way.

                I was curious about your comment about Norway and discovered the incentives that are required to get people to buy one car in a hundred:
                “The perks of EV ownership in Norway go on and on: no tolls, free use of the bus lanes, free parking, free ferry rides and free charging at municipal stations. Norwegians with gas-powered cars pay about $9 a gallon to keep them moving.”

                The total subsidy PER CAR PER YEAR amounts to the equivalent of $8,200 USD! Paid for no doubt from the sovereign wealth fund accumulated from NOrth Sea Oil and Gas.

                The subsidy comes to an end in 2017. Guess what that will do to sales!

                With a subsidy like that they could sell fart cars.

                The Norwegian finance minister made a comment to the effect that “to get a handout, people will ride around freezing in these little plastic boxes”.

                No bout adoubt it, Willard. you’re on to a real winner. Dumkopf!

                30

              • #
                Willard

                Norway has a plentiful supply of Hydro electricity to charge electric vehicles thus freeing up its vast reserves of Oil and Gas to sell to other countries, great policy by the Norwegian government, the subsidies will most likely be reduced by that govt as the other benefits of EVs become apparent.
                BTW your policy of name calling when you have nothing intelligent to say doesn’t bother me it just makes victory sweeter.

                02

              • #
                AndyG55

                Yep. hydro is good, where it can work.

                But it is very rainfall and terrain specific.

                Norway are doing what is appropriate for their country.

                Wind and solar are not appropriate anywhere except a very niche market..

                They are “toys” !

                20

              • #
                Rod Stuart

                Willard must be a hockey player. He certainly stick handles his way around the giant Norwegian subsidy.
                By the way, the tax on conventional vehicles in Norway essentially doubles their cost to the consumer.
                There is no tax on the purchase of electric cars, so that they are not very much more expensive than normal vehicles.
                Then the operation is subsidised as well. The tax on petrol must be about one USD per liter, further tilting the table.
                I guess this situation must be “a level playing field” to Willard. Care to wager on the effect of removing the subsidy in 2017?
                Prior to WWII there was a Willard Storage Battery Company. It disappeared in 1959. The product was crap.
                Your “logic” is typically GREEN. I don’t suppose there might be a market for Norwegian hydro electricity in Europe, rather than giving it away free of charge for charging overgrown golf buggies?
                BTW that wasn’t “name calling”. Just calling a spade a spade so to speak.

                30

              • #
                AndyG55

                “Care to wager on the effect of removing the subsidy in 2017?”

                PEAK RENEWABLES. :-)

                PEAK ELECTRIC CARS. :-)

                10

              • #
                Willard

                “Norway is doing what’s appropriate for their country, well said Andy, using the cheap, plentiful electricity and selling the Oil to some other mug while it’s still worth something.
                And what do we do in this country? We are the Mug punters importing at least 6 Billion dollars ( at today’s low Oil prices) every year just to operate our passenger cars when there’s a plentiful supply of Coal or other local energy source to move passenger vehicles.
                So your choice in future years is to drive an EV that’s powered by Australian electricity potential employing tough, hard working, league playing coal miners or keep driving your foreign fueled Petrol car, that’s keeping JR.Ewing of the Eastern world in a life of luxury, next time your watching Formula One and you see that huge luxury Yacht in the harbour next to the grandstand, feel proud that your funding that.

                12

              • #
                AndyG55

                YAWN !

                Fossil fuels are here to stay for a long time..

                even if its coal to liquid tech.

                Live with it. :-)

                22

              • #
                AndyG55

                Come on dullard..

                Sydney to Melbourne.

                We usually take 9-10 hours

                How long in a Tesla..

                oh wait.. range about 400km.. that’s two overnight stops for recharge..

                DOH !!!

                USELESS !

                or do I need to have two cars..

                one as an overly expensive inner city wank,

                and one to actually go somewhere… say a V8 at a fraction of the price

                22

              • #
                AndyG55

                ps.. when one of these wank cars can finish a Bathurst 1000.. give me a call !!

                22

              • #
                Willard

                So coal to liquid tech Andy? Where will the huge energy requirements come from to run the process? Unicorn farts perhaps?
                Now let’s see, a typical stop at a Tesla supercharger is 20 minutes, generally 2 or 3 stops Sydney to Melbourne, and of course while the driver is waiting 20 minutes for a charge their spending money in regional communities buying food and drinks with the savings from the free Superchargers, oh did I tell you it was free charging? Do you get free petrol for your Sydney-Melbourne trips that are 1 hour shorter if you don’t stop to p..s?
                And as for Bathurst, good luck with your passenger ICE covering 1000kms in 6 hours without it cooking, V8 super cars are 3/4 million dollar machines designed for that very purpose.

                12

              • #
                AndyG55

                “Where will the huge energy requirements come from to run ”

                COAL of coarse, dullard !!

                01

              • #

                So coal to liquid tech Andy? Where will the huge energy requirements come from to run the process?

                Coal or nuclear gets it started. It’s exothermal.

                Now let’s see, a typical stop at a Tesla supercharger is 20 minutes

                Which, under ideal conditions, gets the battery to a maximum pf 80%, not 100%. It’s only 120kW from the “supercharger”. Nobody with arithmetic skills would believe that the top-up can add more than 40 kWh in battery charge in those 20 minutes. Tesla says: “Model S is currently the only EV capable of charging at 120 kW, which equates to 270 kilometers of range in about 30 minutes.” Same page indicates that it takes 75 minutes to reach full charge.

                Not typical stops at all if you’re doing the SYD-MEL run in 2 or 3 stops. Checking the details, the stretch between Goulburn and Wooddonger is very likely to produce range anxiety. The 365km will be touch and go if the top-up in Goulburn didn’t actually get to 100%.

                And as for Bathurst, good luck with your passenger ICE covering 1000kms in 6 hours without it cooking,

                I’ve driven at that rate in a little VW Golf built in 1987 and in need of TLC. No problems at all. Of course it was mostly Autobahn and not a race track.

                I’ve also driven 2 successive laps around the Nürburgring in a little Audi TDI; something that the Model S cannot do.

                22

              • #
                Rod Stuart

                free Superchargers, oh did I tell you it was free charging?

                Do you get a FREE lunch too?
                Wake up and smell the coffee Willard. This isn’t Norway. Wayne Swine spent the sovereign wealth fund.
                Does this FREE energy just fall from above like manna from heaven? Do you mean NOBODY pays for it?

                22

              • #
                AndyG55

                Rod, I think Musk funds it from the US treasury.

                The only way he can make and sell them is to rely on that scamming off the US taxpayer.

                22

              • #
                Willard

                Bernd, Coal or nuclear to produce electricity to turn more coal into liquid fuel to burn in an inefficent internal combustion engine? Better to just use that Coal or Nclear powered electricity to charge an EV directly.
                Good to see you read up on Tesla, you may have learnt something useful, it’s strange how your Sceptical of the Sydney-Melbourne Supercharger route yet for the past 3 weeks dozens of Model S drivers have been travelling the route without problems?

                21

              • #
                Willard

                Free lunch Rod? We’ll sort of, some of the $100 to $150 saved by not buying foreign oil for Sydney-Melbourne trip gets spent in local regional business’s, that’s why the locality of Goulburn were so keen to support Tesla’s building of a Supercharger in town, the cost of the electricity is SFA compared to the benifits it will bring to regional areas.

                11

              • #
                AndyG55

                I sometimes like to come back via the coast..

                Or maybe up through the central west for variety.

                How’s that going to work out. ;-)

                Then up to Brisbane, and back by Armidale, Dubbo, Parkes to see some friends.

                21

              • #
                Willard

                That’s a good point Rod, and as regional areas realize they can install charging facilities and undercut ( so to speak ) the oil companies for the drivers cash they will.

                11

    • #
      Willard

      To put it in simple terms, that $1.20 of petrol will move a large sedan perhaps 10kms of distance, 2 units of electricity (56 cents) will move a large Electric vehicle the same distance.

      24

      • #
        James Bradley

        Yep, Willard,

        But it will take 6 hours to charge it to 80% capacity to move it any further – oh and the Tesla Quick charge – still looking at 45 minutes to 80% and only on the Tesla vehicles – which have now been recalled because they are expensive ozone-polluting rubbish.

        53

        • #
          Willard

          James Bradley, please supply a link to 1. Your claimed recall of the model S, and 2. Your claim of ozone polluting rubbish. And please research carefully because your really out of depth here.

          35

          • #
            James Bradley

            Google it yourself, mate, there’s plenty of references – you best be taking a big, deep breath yourself, flounder.

            53

            • #
              Willard

              No James Bradley, you made the claim about an apparent Model S recall, you need to back up your claim with some supporting evidence, time to put up or shut up.

              23

              • #
                James Bradley

                Google it mate – it’s all there – if your too lazy to research it for yourself, I’m certainly not going to do it for you.

                23

              • #
                James Bradley

                Oh and BTW, Willard,

                I didn’t mention the model S recall – you obviously already knew about it and tried to deny it so you’re just jerking around.

                23

              • #
                Willard

                James Bradley
                October 26, 2015 at 3:41 pm
                Tesla – recall of its S models.

                Then, of course, over 98% of all electric vehicles manufactured are still on the road today – the rest made it home.

                A you saying someone hacked your account and wrote the above James?Anyway you’ve talked the talk but failed to walk the walk so I started researching motor vehicle recalls, I was wondering why would a Model S be recalled? Gearbox failure? fuel injection system? Exhaust system? Starter motor? Engine cooling system? Oh wait it doesn’t have any of those parts to go faulty, but then I did find a Mercedes AMG being recalled, happens to the best of cars I guess, then I found recalls on Toyota, Honda and many other brands, appears to be a common thing these days, in fact I guess if a car hasn’t been recalled it just doesn’t cut the mustard, I think Tesla need a recall to be part of the “in” crowd. I did notice a recall of 11 million VWs Diesel’s for cheating on their tailpipe emission tests, but then I was thinking Tesla have been “cheating” on their tailpie emissions by installing electric motors

                11

              • #
                James Bradley

                Oh no, goodness, I think you got me gee what a zinger, I can hardly believe it – but then you obviously accepted it then so why the fuss now – trying to score points for your alma mata?

                Try the charging system, brainiak.

                22

              • #
                AndyG55

                ” are still on the road today, somewhere

                – the rest made it home.” short trips, hey !

                12

              • #
                James Bradley

                AndyG,

                Yeah – but what’s really funny about Dillard’s exmaples of other brands is that they produce millions of economical and cost effective automobiles that travel hundreds of thousands of kilometres and have a recall rate of less than 1%.

                Tesla makes an expensive and non-cost effective vehicle that travels thousands of kilometres and has a 100% recall rate.

                Go figure.

                12

              • #
                Willard

                Got to hand it to you James, you dug a big hole for yourself with the Model S recall claim but despite no chance of getting out you keep digging to get out, trouble is your just caving the sides in and making it worse for yourself; and name calling from down that hole won’t get you out any quicker.
                So it’s a 100% recall now? Wow, how many cars is that in total?

                11

              • #
                AndyG55

                pricing .. over 100 grand.. yeah that’s an everyday car . not.

                have you ever heard the term “niche”, dullard ?

                12

              • #
                AndyG55

                “Wow, how many cars is that in total?”

                Not many !!

                02

            • #
              James Bradley

              Dillard,

              Have a good look around you. No one else is reading this post now. You got no audience for your ‘zingers’ and I’m just amused at how many times you keep taking the same bait – you really need to let go – un-tick the box that notifies you of the follow up comments – you got some issues dude.

              11

              • #
                Willard

                I’m just having some fun James, don’t think anything you or I say will have a bearing on the future of transport in Oz.

                01

              • #
                KinkyKeith

                James.

                That’s not true.

                I am still looking at this post to see how long Will is going to keep

                Flying in the Face of Reality.

                People who one way or another opt out of life to become permanent students, see the story of the leaf that got washed down

                the gutter, or become permanently confused about “stuff” like carbon pollution and are used by politicians as poorly paid

                advertising functionaries; well these people always end up the same; you see them standing outside of supermarkets

                asking for donations for 351. ORG so that the people running 351.ORG can save the planet for all humanity.

                There is little doubt that the collections by the Willards of the World will help place representatives of 351.ORG right

                in the front row at Paris and just to show their concern they’ll get here a week early to “prepare”.

                Well done Willards of the World.

                Well Done!!!!!

                10

              • #
                gai

                Recall summaries for new and used Tesla vehicles.

                Tesla Model S

                Tesla has issued a recall action over charging concerns in 29,222 2013 Tesla Model S sedans that could pose a potential fire hazard. Read More

                Tesla Motors is recalling 1,228 2013 Tesla Model S sedans because the left-hand seatback may not stay mounted in a crash. Read More
                http://www.edmunds.com/recalls/tesla.html

                10

            • #
          • #
            Willard

            Over 500 in Australia since January, no advertising and a poor $US/$Aus exchange rate. Over 100 000 world wide, can’t build them fast enough.

            00

            • #
              AndyG55

              A fool and his money are soon parted.

              As I said.. a niche, winker market!!

              11

              • #
                Willard

                Andy, you probably need to stop posting for a while a do some basic research on Tesla, the companies long term plans and the many positive car reviews from reliable motoring groups over the past 3 years. Then do some research on the overseas oil companies and their long term plans to gouge more money out of the Australian public.

                12

              • #
              • #

                Willard wrote:

                You probably need to stop posting for a while a do some basic research on Tesla, the companies long term plans and the many positive car reviews from reliable motoring groups over the past 3 years.

                “Reliable motoring groups” provide neither professional advice nor do they provide financial advice. They print stories on glossy stock.

                Bob Lutz says:

                Is Tesla Doomed?

                Tesla’s showing all the signs of a company in trouble: bleeding cash, securitized assets, and mounting inventory. It’s the trifecta of doom for any automaker, and anyone paying attention probably saw this coming a mile away. … If I were sitting in Musk’s seat, I would take an urgent look at cutting cost. Not just taking cost out of the car, but reducing expense in general. When they have a situation where, on an operating basis, they’re losing $4000 per car, they’re in trouble. At some point, they’re not going to get any more money.

                (emphasis mine)

                21

              • #
                Willard

                Hey Bernd, is that the same Bob Lutz who ran GM for ten years but failed to build a decent Electric car? Then the upstart Tesla come along and build the Model S, yea, Bob must be p….d off! Betcha he’s keen for Tesla to fail.

                00

              • #
                Rod Stuart

                Can you believe our luck Bernd?
                Not only is Willard a top notch automotive engineer, but at Keynesian economist too!
                Companies and even countries can borrow and spend and spend some more to unearthly prosperity!
                A veritable Kevin Rudd!

                10

              • #
                Dave

                .

                Didn’t Tesla recall nearly 23,000 S models in early 2014

                “For charging concerns that could pose a potential fire hazard”

                10

            • #
              AndyG55

              tell me,

              How many do you know.. or are you just believing their propaganda?

              Surely even you aren’t stupid enough to own shares !!!!!

              02

            • #
              AndyG55

              darn typos..
              tell me,

              How many do you OWN.. or are you just believing their propaganda?

              Surely even you aren’t stupid enough to own shares !!!!!

              02

              • #
                AndyG55

                Answer the question, dillard.

                01

              • #
                Rod Stuart

                I can’t decide whether we are blessed with Willard’s quaint observations and fantasies because of the full moon or something else? Perhaps because it is the year of the monkey? What do you think Andy?

                01

              • #
                AndyG55

                I think he was on hallucinogens when he read the propaganda, and saw things that just aren’t real.

                Still if he wants to mortgage his house to buy a $120,000+ toy, then he obviously has more money than brains.

                Good luck to him.

                01

              • #
                AndyG55

                Wonder how often he will get stranded.. and need a 20km extension cord. !! ;-)

                12

              • #
                AndyG55

                At least he is doing the proper thing and using coal fired electricity.

                Lots of CO2.. good boy, dillard. :-)

                Or perhaps he will charge at night from a solar station. ;-)

                11

              • #
                Willard

                Bit of Bromance developed overnight between Rod and Andy, or maybe they’ve taken to talking to each other because they’ve nothing intelligent to say about EVs.

                00

        • #
          KinkyKeith

          James.

          Just ask him how many electric cars he has in his family.

          This guy? is FFR.

          KK

          32

      • #

        $1.20 of petrol will move a large sedan perhaps 10kms of distance

        Perhaps it’ll move it nearly 20km.

        2 units of electricity (56 cents) will move a large Electric vehicle the same distance.

        You seem to be basing that on the distance that an 85kWh Model S can drive ideally on a full charge, neglecting that somewhat more electricity is used to charge the battery than what is available when drawn; and that the amount of electrical power recovered is inversely related to the rate at which it’s drawn; i.e. the harder you drive, the less the electrical power recovered from the battery.

        All of that which is lost goes into heating the battery with the possibility of reduced output to prevent the thing from destroying itself. It’s not just the physical motive power increases at higher speed that exhaust the battery. It means that e.g. a fast lap around the Nürburgring’s Nordschleife is just that; one lap at most. 20 km of hard driving and the thing is toast. With the result that the Model S was no quicker than a diesel Ford Transit van; and it can’t do more than one lap without a “long rest”.

        Well, at least there is a coal-fired power station nearby to recharge the Tesla’s exhausted battery.

        42

        • #
          Willard

          So let’s do some simple math for you Bernd with some real world facts on energy use/fuel consumption, Two 4 door cars with similar size and power output; Walkinshaw 507 Commodore- steady 100kmh driving, best case scenario 13 Litres per 100km at $1.40 per litre ( quality fuel only for this engine) equals $18.20 per 100km best case scenario, Tesla P85D- 17kwh per 100km with the aircon and headlights on, but lets add in some charging losses and round it up to 20 kwh per 100 at 28 cents per unit equals $5.60 per 100km WORST case scenario,

          14

    • #
      Egor TheOne

      A car might get 10 km per liter …..a Toyota Camry for example .

      I kw would push the same car about 5km if it was electric .

      If you look at the Tesla S , it will travel about 500 km on about 85 kw

      This translates to 1kw to 6 kms and to fill up costs 80 kw at 30 cents per kw = 24.00 aud …
      about 1/3 to 2/5 the price of fuel !

      However , the question is battery cost with a 85kw battery with a life span of 8 years !
      This is what kills it …battery replacement cost is 12000 usd or 17000 aud.

      So 2000 aud per year in battery replacement cost , but you save on fuel costs .
      also virtually no cost on electrical motor up keep !
      What ever goes wrong with an electric motor ? Bearings maybe /
      No need for a transmission and full torque available at 1-15000 rpm !

      They definitely have advantages especially in traffic …no idling engines , but atabout 100,000 each they are only a greeny millionaires car .

      But from here , battery technology will only get better , and if the car price comes down which in time it will , means that they are on the way in , not out !

      Fellow posters here would know that I am no Global Warming True B’lver advocate , but I have to say that i would own a Tesla S series if i get the financial opportunity .

      I do think that all electric everything , even aircraft , is the way of the future ,regardless of which ever way the climate fiasco continues .

      50

      • #
        Rod Stuart

        Mitsubishi offer a more affordable product for (starting at) a $22,995.
        They sold how many? About six I think.
        At one stage I was seriously thinking of converting a Mitsubishi Mirage at a cost of about $7,500.
        There are lots of drawbacks. For even a modicum of range you require about 500 kg of batteries! And they don’t last forever.
        It all sounds very groovy until you actually set pencil to paper. For anything other than commuting from home base, “refueling’ is a bummer.
        Electric car technology has been around since about 1890. I doubt that you will see much more advance into the market in the next 125 years!
        I suppose one could always pull a trailer with a genset on board. The added cost of towing might defeat the purpose somewhat!

        81

        • #
          Willard

          Rod, I would like to politely disagree with you, for a long time car makers have shown little interest in developing EVs over ICE, and you have to ask yourself the question, why have most EVs been so pig ugly when the same car makers built attractive ICE cars? Perhaps they haven’t been keen to sell them in the first place, perhaps an EV with so few moving parts that needs little maintenance before and after the warranty period is not good business for the makers/dealers. Then comes along an upstart car company that won’t take no for an answer, the big car makers expected it to fail and go away, it hasn’t happened, so now in a very short time, GM, Audi, Porsche, Aston Martin and others are taking EVs very seriously, the cats out of the bag so to speak, over the next 10 years Electric cars will rule sales of the passenger car market, petrol/Diesel will be left for the heavy haulage/off-road side of transport.

          25

          • #
            Peter C

            A major problem so far Willard is known as Range Anxiety. I think that means that shortly after driving off, you start worrying if you will have enough charge to get home again.

            The Jaguar c75 was supposed to have a small jet turbine to recharge the battery.. As far as I know they only built one and it did not get the jet engine.

            31

            • #
              Peter C

              One small bright spot on the horizon. Oxis energy expects to actually start selling LiS batteries in 2016, with about twice the charge density/kg of currently available LiFePO4 batteries. Still a prediction though?
              http://www.pv-magazine.com/news/details/beitrag/oxis-to-roll-out-li-s-energy-storage-batteries-next-year_100019896/#axzz3pbxtsIGn

              30

              • #
                Willard

                Thanks for the link on Oxis energy Peter C.

                01

              • #
                J PAK

                I’m sure battery technology will continue to improve for some years. My first cordless drill was a NiCad 7.2V Makita with brushes and was pretty useless. To-day you can buy Lithium ion 18V brushless units which are really effective.
                Likewise, early mass produced motor cars were rather quaint and inefficient by our reckoning. In another decade car batteries will be lighter, have bigger capacity, cope with deep discharging and recharge much faster without damage.
                I suspect the very concept of a battery will alter and become more of small chemical battery with multiple layers of capacitor-like storage capable of very rapid energisation.

                40

              • #

                “One small bright spot on the horizon. Oxis energy expects to actually start selling LiS batteries in 2016, with about twice the charge density/kg of currently available LiFePO4 batteries. Still a prediction though?”

                What is that energy density compared to gasoline/diesel? Electrical storage can be very good for accumulating upon decelerating, and many transient situations. If viable why are not railroads and truckers already expanding that greatly. The personal transportation area may be exciting, but the numbers show it to be a scam!

                20

            • #
              Willard

              Range anxiety is a definite problem for sure in the vehicles with 120-200kms range, in the vehicles with the higher range such as Tesla’s 400km+ and more fast charge stations not so much.

              20

              • #
                James Bradley

                Tesla – recall of its S models.

                Then, of course, over 98% of all electric vehicles manufactured are still on the road today – the rest made it home.

                82

              • #
                KinkyKeith

                Most people I know wont drive elctric acrs for several raesons; primarily cost.

                There is another imporatnt reason not appreciated by many; personal survival.

                Ever seen what happens to those batteries in a crash.

                Ever heard of INERTIA.

                Ever seen a modern battery with a ruptured skin?

                Impressive.

                But NOT good to be near.

                Best left in the show room.

                KK

                42

              • #
                Willard

                Kinky Keith, re-car fires, in 2013 there were approx 164 000 car fires in the USA, the figure is reducing every year but still a big number to compare different vehicles, a petrol car driver is up to 12 times more likely to be engulfed in flames than an EV driver after a crash. Also as most EVs don’t have a 200kg lump of steel under the hood, the frontal impact zone crumples correctly offering more protection for occupants, so if your worried about safety it’s best to go electric.

                24

              • #
                KinkyKeith

                Dillard/

                FFR

                22

            • #

              BMW has a cure for “Range Anxiety”. It’s a Range Extender.

              For plain-speaking people, a gen-set based on a BMW motorcycle engine with its own petrol tank, mounted in the car allowing it to limp to the next charging point.

              41

              • #
                Willard

                That’s because BMWs best engineers have gone off to work for Tesla, Audi and Porsche.

                17

              • #

                Now if such a thing would “always” work correctly when needed! BMW can do that! But not for mere change.

                10

              • #
                Bill

                The N.I.C.E. had a better one 10 years ago.

                00

              • #
                gai

                Everyone missed the major draw back of electric cars and the push for energy conservation in other vehicles.

                Midsouth Rescue Technologies
                Magnesium Fires

                In an effort to cut the weight of today’s vehicles, manufactures are using a lot of magnesium.

                This is a very strong, but light weight metal, weighing only 1/3 the weight of aluminum. Unlike most metals, this metal burns and is very hard to extinguish.

                Magnesium fires have a very violent reaction to water, putting firefighters in much danger.

                Click to see REACTION TO WATER

                This reaction was from a small piece of magnesium on the steering column…..

                When heated magnesium ignites and burns with an intense white light and releases extreme amounts of heat. Most magnesium fires cannot be extinguished by water, since water reacts with hot magnesium and releases hydrogen.

                As we know water expands 1700 times its volume as it is converted to steam, this in-turn makes the water molecule much smaller and the intense heat from magnesium breaks them down before they can effectively cool the heat. When broken down these molecules form extreme amounts of hydrogen gas, which is very explosive. These explosions of hydrogen are then supported by the oxygen, making them even more intense and simply cause the molten metal to splatter, throwing the small bits of molten metal in all directions…..

                00

              • #
                Willard

                Looks like gai missed the part about EVs being far less likely to catch fire in an accident than a petrol powered car, do some basic research gai.

                00

  • #
    pat

    just for fun.

    ABC’s McHale gets distracted by Trudeau’s good looks!

    21 Oct: CBC: Justin Trudeau called a #PMILF on Twitter​, but is that a problem?
    Online comments focus on prime minister-designate’s looks and not his policies, says expert
    Twitter isn’t the only place where Trudeau is getting attention for his looks.
    A headline in the British newspaper Mirror asked if Trudeau was the “sexiest politician in the world.” The article calls him a “genuine heartthrob” and describes Trudeau as having “luscious brown hair, spellbinding eyes and eyebrows that, we’re reliably informed, are ‘entirely on point.’”
    Even Fox News’s Geraldo Rivera and the ***Australian Broadcasting Corporation’s James McHale got in on the compliments on Twitter, although they avoided using the #PMILF hashtag…
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/justin-trudeau-called-a-pmilf-on-twitter-but-is-that-a-problem-1.3282794

    James McHale’s Tweet with replies
    McHale: In Canada Justin Trudeau’s Liberals elected on a platform of sorry I lost my train of thought he’s just so handsome.
    https://twitter.com/JamesMcHale/status/656349094500171776

    ***from ABC: James McHale
    James McHale anchors Western Australia’s flagship ABC News bulletin, weeknights at 7:00pm

    00

  • #
    pat

    the politics of Social Media:

    23 Oct: Toronto Star: Justin Trudeau got help from youth, new voters, social media in election win
    To make it easier for youth to vote, Elections Canada pilot project set up advance polling stations on campuses, community centres.
    More than 70,000 people, mostly youth, registered and voted at advance polling stations set-up at offices on campuses and community centres across the country.
    The four-day pilot project was created by Elections Canada to make it easier for youth to vote…
    Social media played a huge role in the election campaign in general…
    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/10/23/justin-trudeau-got-help-from-youth-new-voters-social-media-in-election-win.html

    20 Oct: Mashable: Canada’s hot new prime minister has the Internet sweating maple syrup
    ***Is this global warming or did Canada just have a heat wave?
    Oh sorry, it’s just the new prime minister, Justin Trudeau
    http://mashable.com/2015/10/20/justin-trudeau-twitter-reactions/#Yv5Z_GDniiq5

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    pat

    a final word on the Canadian election:

    6 Aug: iPolitics: Trudeau camp uses ‘promoted trend’ to get Canadian election trending on Twitter
    How much is that hashtag in the window?
    If you’re the Liberal Party, the answer could be upwards of $100,000.
    The Justin Trudeau campaign camp appears to have paid Twitter to get the hashtag associated with the upcoming election — #elxn42 — trending on the social media site Thursday in advance of the first leaders’ debate, which kicks off at 8 p.m. EST…
    http://ipolitics.ca/2015/08/06/trudeau-camp-uses-promoted-trend-to-get-canadian-election-trending-on-twitter/

    Trudeau, Turnbull? no difference really:

    26 Oct: SMH CBD: Colin Kruger: No selfie sacrifice for our new PM Malcolm Turnbull
    (Colin Kruger writes the daily CBD column for BusinessDay)
    Our new PM Malcolm Turnbull is having to deal with a fair bit of baggage from the very conservative reign of his predecessor, Tony Abbott.
    But he has chosen to keep one of Abbott’s less contentious foibles by hiring his own official prime ministerial photographer.
    He has not kept Abbott’s man, former Daily Telegraph photographer, Brad Hunter.
    In what may be a nod to his more centrist approach, Turnbull has hired former Fairfax man, Sahlan Hayes…
    In keeping with his social media friendly approach to the top office, Hayes’ brief is to capture the behind the scenes activity of our PM – and provide ample fodder for Turnbull’s ***465,000 Twitter followers…
    CBD can’t wait to see what images comeback from next month’s meet and greet between the new PM and attendees at National Mining Day (NMD), which is being held at Parliament House November 23…
    Look out for the Hayes ‘selfie’ of our PM, Rinehart and her $200 million benefactor, (Rio Tinto’s Sam) Walsh…
    http://www.smh.com.au/business/cbd/no-selfie-sacrifice-for-our-new-pm-malcolm-turnbull-20151023-gkgy2e.html

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      Bill

      The result of a concerted campaign of 12 years by the Liberal Party against ONE man. Coupled with the “strategic voting” scam (they told people who to vote for because “stopping Harper” was everything, forget voting for good government), and Obama’s hand-picked team working behind the scenes at LPC headquarters (even the mainstream media noticed until told to shut up about it); the end result was sadly predictable.

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        Ross

        Interesting comment on the Canadian “small dead animals” site. Shows the MSM are the same the world over.

        ” 2011: Stephen Harper’s Tories win majority government with 39.62% of popular vote –
        The reaction to this victory was a resounding refrain that 60% of Canadians don’t support Harper and what an unfair & undemocratic process the current Canadian voting system is:

        •Voting system skews results, delivers phony majority

        •A Conservative majority? Not so fast.

        2015: Justin Trudeau’s Liberals win majority government with 39.47% of popular vote – The reaction to this victory “mysteriously” was absent of the fact that 60% of Canadians didn’t vote for Trudeau and the Liberals:
        •Justin Trudeau and Liberal Party Prevail With Stunning Rout in Canada
        •Justin Trudeau’s emphasis on evidence-based policies paved the way to Liberal victory
        •Canada to return to its honest broker role under Trudeau “

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    Egor TheOne

    Monckton has called it accurately as usual ….. Abbott gone , Harper gone ….its full steam ahead for the Paris Money Grab from so called leaders anxious to appease the UN Totalitarian Malthusian Ratbagery !

    A masterclass in how to Steal Trillions for an imagined and pretend emergency with propaganda and loud voices from fringe nuts offered as proof instead of solid science !

    The CONsensus of Fools continues as the March towards the Economic Cliff Quickens !

    Ponzi and Goebbels would be proud .

    https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/clip_image002_thumb1.jpg?w=597&h=279

    https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/clip_image024_thumb.jpg?w=603&h=427

    The best description of current events >>
    The Modern Face of Totalitarianism – Godfrey Bloom MEP
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_jYV3lk7Os

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    pat

    a couple of examples of what we can expect from PM’s photog Sahlan Hayes…and what we have been getting from Fairfax forever:

    8 July: SMH: Tony Wright: Malcolm Turnbull seethes with style, nicking Abbott’s artery. By mistake, of course
    Photo: Sahlan Hayes: Minister for Communications Malcolm Turnbull leaves the Sydney Institute event on Wednesday.
    Malcolm Turnbull does a seethe with some panache.
    Ever so politely, his barrister’s voice purring, he finds a carotid or a jugular and gives it a bit of a nick. Oops…
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/malcolm-turnbull-seethes-with-style-nicking-abbotts-artery-by-mistake-of-course-20150708-gi7m4f.html

    Turnbull, keeping his media-proclaimed low profile pre-Coup!

    17 July: Southern Cross (Fairfax): Michael Koziol: Malcolm Turnbull skewers Coalition colleagues at awards night
    Photo: Sahlan Hayes: Statesman and comedian: Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull entertained an industry dinner on Thursday night.
    Bronwyn Bishop’s transport profligacy, George Brandis’s tech troubles and the ongoing furore over Q&A – they were all fair game for the comic stylings of Malcolm Turnbull at a telecommunications industry dinner on Thursday night…
    But his best jokes were reserved for his own frontbench colleagues, who copped a healthy serve of Mr Turnbull’s famed wit…
    And Mr Turnbull poked fun at Prime Minister Tony Abbott’s ban on ministers appearing on the ABC’s Q&A program, suggesting one way to solve the standoff would be – hold your applause – a panel of Malcolm Turnbulls…
    He spoke of the successes of the National Broadband Network, which now has more than ***500,000 paying customers…
    http://www.juneesoutherncross.com.au/story/3217773/malcolm-turnbull-skewers-coalition-colleagues-at-awards-night/?cs=12

    ***500,000 customers!
    ZDNet, 31 Aug – NBN said in its results that the company expects peak funding to be between AU$46 billion and AU$56 billion!

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    handjive

    The Elephant and the Mouse
    ~ ~ ~
    Does anyone remember 97% climate scientists saying this during ’76-’98 warming?: “Oceans control the planet’s temperature.”

    Climate scientist David Hastings: What I told the governor

    “We explained to Scott that the fundamentals of climate science are not complicated.
    Global temperatures are now at record highs. Sea level is rising. Oceans are more acidic. We are responsible.

    That said, global air temperatures have remained more or less constant for the past 15 years.

    Yes, it’s true! They haven’t changed much since the record-setting year of 1998.

    So what’s going on?

    The key fact that Jackson and others ignore is that the oceans control the planet’s temperature: 90 percent of the heat is stored in the oceans, and its heat content continues to rise at a rapid rate.

    Thus, the skeptics miss the elephant and focus on the mouse.
    . . .
    The Mouse:
    IPCC draft, dated Aug. 25, Bloomberg:

    The surface air temperature is projected to rise under all scenarios examined by the IPCC.

    The pace of temperature increases slowed to about 0.05 of a degree per decade from 1998 through 2012 from 0.12 degrees per decade for the longer period spanning from 1951 to 2012.

    The IPCC said 111 out of 114 climate models predicted a greater warming trend than was observed from 1998 to 2012.

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    • #
      Egor TheOne

      “and its heat content continues to rise at a rapid rate.”

      Is this what they call a ‘rapid rate’ >> https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/clip_image024_thumb.jpg?w=603&h=427

      And as for their atmospheric temp slowing ….maybe,…. how about stopped ? > https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/clip_image002_thumb1.jpg?w=597&h=279

      And lets not forget the massive sea level rise of 1mm per yer maybe !

      (and off run the pacific islander leaders for climate funds handouts before their islands are washed away by that 1mm sea rise )

      I always hear about ocean acidification ….. but where are these acidic oceans ?
      Even oceans that have gone slightly acidic ( yes ,beyond our ability to measure it ).

      Its amazes me how the oceans can supposedly warm , but the atmosphere does’t warm with it !

      It further amazes me how only the ‘deep oceans’ can warm ….. again beyond our ability to measure it ! ( except for underwater volcanic activity )

      And I always thought that warm water and warm air rise……silly me !

      Next time i want to heat a pot of water , if I heat the top , the heat will hide down the bottom ( where i cannot find it or measure it)

      Some of these Climate Circus Clowns must get there Degrees from a Kellogg’s corn flakes packet .

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    handjive

    ABC, 3 hours ago: Antarctic sea ice maximum at ‘normal’ level for first time in three years

    Despite climbing global temperatures, sea ice coverage around the Antarctic has been increasing in direct contrast to the Arctic ice sheet, which gets smaller each year. (Arctic Sea Ice Extent Highest In A Decade: tonyheller, 18/10/15)

    The maximum extent of Antarctic sea ice has decreased for the first time in three years, according to new satellite imaging data.

    Use the slider to see how the maximum extent of Antarctic sea ice was less in 2015 than in 2014.
    The yellow outline shows the median sea ice extent observed during September from 1981 through to 2010.”

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      Bulldust

      They say the El Nino may have impacted this year’s ice extent reducing it compared to the last three record years. They imply this (El Nino) year marks a return to normalcy. I don’t know how these scientists lie straight in bed…

      If it takes a big El Nino year to “drive” data in the “right” direction, how big a cherry[pick would you call that? Decades of the Antarctic ice extent defying global warming predictions, but one El Nino and they pretend it is meaningful because it dropped slightly fromthe three previous record-breaking years?

      If the statements of these scientists is anything to go by, science as we know it is dead…

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    MichaelinBrisbane

    Jo,
    I’m looking forward to hearing how your presentation to the AIIA goes tomorrow evening at St Catherine’s College, University of WA.
    My sister will be there, so I’ll get some idea from her.
    Will you publish your talk? On this Blog?
    Best wishes.

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