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Once again, voters don’t want climate action but end up with a believer Prime Minister

The pattern continues. Do voters matter?  Obama hardly mentioned Climate Change in the 2012 election campaign, but climate zombie suddenly appeared in the victory speech. Major climate regulations get delayed til after elections. Days after the 2014 midterms, Obama announced “big deals” on climate change with China. We all know why he didn’t announce them before.

In Australia, Julia Gillard said there would be no carbon tax, barely won, and burned her political capital to bring in a carbon tax she didn’t need to bring in.

Tony Abbott won on a “blood promise” to get rid of the carbon tax, and yet here we are again with a PM who believes the whole kit and caboodle, and in 2009 he wanted to bring in a bigger more poisonous version of the carbon tax. Voters obviously don’t want carbon action anymore or Democrats and Labor parties would take it openly to elections. When they get the choice, like they did in Australia in 2013, voters vote to axe the tax.

If Turnbull signs us up to carbon trading in Paris, those 54 Liberal MPs and Senators who elected him will have totally sold out the voters. It’s up to the Liberal Party to constrain the member for Goldman Sachs. Global carbon markets could be worth $2 Trillion a year — bigger than coal, bigger than oil, the largest “commodity” traded. (Marvel — it’s not even a commodity.) Financial houses around the world have been salivating for a decade at the prospect of brokering deals on a new forced, fixed market made from thin air. It’s as if a whole giant currency might wink into existence.

Meanwhile, in the media, it’s all bread and circuses. While Big-oil gets painted as the monster controlling this debate, the largest vested interests in the room are a magnitude bigger, silent, and their entire market is 100% dependent on punters believing that we can change the weather, that carbon is pollution, and that “there is no debate”. It’s probably the largest market in human history based on bullying and namecalling. If people listen to the lepers, it’s all over. (Don’t let the deniers speak.)

Turnbull will poll well in the honeymoon, but many in the heart and soul of the Liberal Party feel betrayed. The most active and passionate supporters are angry beyond words — calling for a split or a new party. They’d rather lose the next election and get a real alternative than campaign to get Labor-lite.

 UPDATE: Turnbull has said “he is sticking with the Government’s policies on climate change.” Does that mean he will not allow carbon credits to be purchased from overseas? He needs to specifically rule that out (as Abbott did). It’s only a small step to “stick with the current target” of 26% by 2030 but allow companies to buy foreign carbon credits. Pretty soon we’re buying, selling and holding EU carbon credits and dependent on rulings made in Brussels over which we have no control. Money and control will flow out of the nation. Carbon markets feed bureaucracies, bankers and corruption.

Fake markets are not free markets.

 

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Once again, voters don't want climate action but end up with a believer Prime Minister, 9.3 out of 10 based on 124 ratings

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235 comments to Once again, voters don’t want climate action but end up with a believer Prime Minister

  • #

    Malcolm Turnbull’s tenure as Communications Minister was the most deceitful in a long time. He did nothing but encourage the ABC’s war on Tony Abbott. If he wins at the next election, you can be sure carbon trading will return, to boost his interests in Goldman Sachs. I don’t know if his assets include banking shares, but as the member for Goldman Sachs, it would not be a surprise.
    Now come on Mr Turnbull, prove me wrong.

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      • #
        el gordo

        ‘Ha ha’

        You got rid of Abbott through a biased media and twittersphere (a successful strategy) but there is nothing the green leftoids can do about global cooling.

        The games up fatso.

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    • #
      toorightmate

      He also failed dismally in has stewardship of the $100 BILLION NBN project.
      However, it was a busy time for him, feeding the Hartchers and Cassidys of the Australian landscape.

      200

      • #

        I think the Labor Party media section with bylines in Fairfax and ‘their’ ABC have shot themselves in the foot with their relentless Abbott Derangement Syndrome. The only way that Labor could have won the next election, was for these twits to simply have just shut their traps. Or, which was impossible for them, publish truthfully.

        30

    • #
      Bob Malloy

      I’m sure all remember his support for Kev’s ETS leading up to Copenhagen, his often repeated it’s for his children and grandchildren, to my recollection it was never for our children and grandchildren only his. This was one of his few honest if somewhat misleading utterances. An ETS was an opportunity to make his already large endowment for his children even larger, he could see how beneficial having his hand in all our pockets was going to be for prodigy.

      100

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    • #
      John Watt

      Way back when Turnbull was environment spokesman I asked him to get someone with appropriate qualifications to review Dr John Nicol’s analysis of the role of CO2 in climate effects. Turnbull said he would do just that. Still waiting for him to honour that commitment. Lots of talk, no walk. More of same to come?

      70

    • #
      aussieguy

      Turnbull hasn’t done much with ABC. And for the NBN, he pretty much outsourced responsibility to someone else. (Head of NBN Co.)

      According to 2GB…Ray Hadley: Who voted for Turnbull?
      => http://www.2gb.com/article/ray-hadley-who-voted-turnbull

      …Turnbull was so focused on attaining the position of Prime Minister from Abbott that he doesn’t know what to do once he’s got it! It does seem he didn’t think that far!

      According to LNP Cabinet leaks…

      When Abbott conducted first Cabinet meeting => One by one, he let’s everyone in the Cabinet have a say. To talk about their concerns.
      VS
      When Turnbull conducted first Cabinet meeting => Very few words to say. Bishop (LNP Deputy) and Truss (Deputy PM and Nationals Leader) didn’t want to say anything when asked by Turnbull. Meeting was short and pointless; as Turnbull himself was “distant” and “distracted”.


      *face palm*
      Don’t call a meeting if there is no clear goal or objective you want to achieve! Else you are wasting everyone’s time!

      …Regardless, not a good start for Turnbull.

      80

  • #
    Sean McHugh

    They’d rather lose the next election and get a real alternative than campaign to get Labor-lite.

    Agreed. I don’t want to live in a country where the options are Greens, Labor-Greens or New Labor.

    591

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      • #
        scaper...

        I’m not too concerned about a Turnbull…business as usual on the climate front.

        Could relate a few interesting events but not at this time.

        We won’t be voting for the coalition next election. Most probably the Australian Liberty Alliance. Where was the IPA in all this? I wouldn’t know because no longer a member. Libertarians, my backside!

        150

        • #
          el gordo

          Scaper I didn’t see this coup coming, the speed of the operation took me by surprise.

          If at anytime the PM deviates from the Coalition agreement then there will be hell to play, a break away Nats might have more political clout than the ALA.

          140

          • #
            Ted O'Brien.

            I didn’t see it coming either. Looking back, what I had noted was a larger than real life deputy Prime Minister. That has now magnified.

            30

            • #
              Ted O'Brien.

              Oh dear! Deputy leader of the Liberals, not deputy PM. Maybe it was that she maintains a much higher profile than Warren Truss. Bring on Barnaby Joyce.

              By the way, there should be chuckles yet to come for watching the Johnny Depp v Barnaby Joyce show.

              40

          • #
            MudCrab

            el gordo,

            I think the pacing of this coup was part of the plan.

            What has happened in the past has been at the first sniff of a pro-Turncoat leadership spill, the rank and file remind each and every sitting member that a vote for Turncoat means putting your own sodding election day posters up. The sitting members, faced with the real possibility of having booths unmanned on election day, panic and back down.

            I feel the timing was deliberate to get it done and dusted before the rank and file noticed what was happening.

            (for the record, I have been working through the SA elected members email list and pointing out very clearly that I will NOT be free to help come next election.)

            80

            • #
              el gordo

              The timing was deliberate in a Machiavellian sort of way, they plotted and white anted whenever they had the chance.

              But ultimately they needed a bounce in the popularity numbers before they could make their move.

              ‘More recently, there have been three occasions when pollsters have gauged personal ratings for Turnbull. In January 2014, UMR Research respectively had his approval at 42% and disapproval at 30%. Essential Research recorded 44% approval and 31% disapproval in June 2014, which improved to 47% and 24% last month.’

              William Bowe / The Poll Bludger at Crikey

              30

        • #
          Dennis

          I understand that ALA will only field candidates for the Senate, no House of representative seats. That can only mean that ALA wants to play games in the Senate like PUP and others do, adding to the log jams the government has to negotiate through with limited success because the logs are more interested in their own political games than in how the Commonwealth of Australia is governed.

          50

  • #
    Iconoclast

    Unbelievable! In his opposition mode Turnbull couldn’t ever lay a glove on Rudd. It wasn’t until Tony Abbott became opposition leader before the conservatives were able to start kicking Rudd and later Gillard all over the park. It was Tony Abbott who won government and now this usurper wants to steal the crown he could never win. He sees himself as a great communicator when in point of actual fact he only likes the sound of his own voice. And as for his judgement, let’s not talk about Godwin Grech.

    520

    • #
      ianl8888


      …. let’s not talk about Godwin Grech

      Well, yes, let’s do bring up poor old Godwin – often

      Constantly rubbing Turnbull’s nose in it will make him do his block, and both the MP’s and the electorate will then observe the bloody-minded narcissist at his core

      If you think this is cynical, then what word would you use to describe his actions yesterday ?

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    • #
      Dennis

      The Abbott Government’s achievements are many, not that we hear much about it in the news cycles. And achieved despite the hostile Senate opposed to most of the government’s bills.

      Ask yourself what ALA could achieve, look at PUP and tell us that ALA would be different, I doubt it very much.

      The focus of voters should be on good government, not on how to create a Senate that tries to govern.

      40

  • #
    Paul in Sweden

    Say it ain’t so Jo! For a brief time I thought Oz was a beacon of reason. Crap on a cracker. There are other problems going on now that dwarf the absurdity of the Global Warming Industry Scam right now. My betters and myself try to talk to full time government elected trough feeders with nothing but platitudes in response.

    At this point, it is my belief nothing will change until the compounded consequences of actions and inactions dig deep. ATM I am fat, gray haired and require little and have plenty. Soon I think others that require more than plenty are going to see the fallacy of this astonishing leftist lunacy that has overtaken the western(First World) world.

    Until hurt is felt, real hard, I do not see those that have been instrumental in this will be called to account.

    I have a shovel and a pick ax but I will be shopping for a pitchfork.

    I look forward to public tar and feathering being brought into common practice again.

    380

    • #
      Rick Bradford

      Paul,

      It’s coming your way right now, at railway speed. Somewhere close to a million non-Europeans who have such a sense of entitlement that even Denmark isn’t good enough for them.

      The EU, the embodiment of the leftist lunacy you describe, is seeing its prize achievement — free movement of people — slapped down not just by minor states, but by Germany itself.

      It’s a fail they should not be allowed to recover from.

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      • #
        David Maddison

        It’s a fail they should not be allowed to recover from.

        I don’t think they will. Unsustainable “renewable” energy and the current invasion will finish off Europe. It will soon be a non-Western power and we should be prepared to accept here as refugees indigineous Europeans along with any movable cultural heritage lest it suffers the same fate as in Syria.

        110

  • #
    mmxx

    I am concerned about the veracity of Turnbull’s early statements about staying on course with the Abbott government’s policy on climate change.

    It reeks of the hollow “I fully support Prime Minister Abbott” sort of message he kept giving out over the last years, before he politically knifed Tony Abbott in the back at an opportune moment.

    Turnbull and Bishop will commit big climate concessions before or at the Paris IPCC meeting, I fear. It’s the Twitter-led populist thing to be seen to do, as they showed us on black 14 September 2015.

    It will have little to do with sound science-based policy to help keep Australia on the sound economic and societal pathways that our forebears bequeathed to all of us in this country.

    471

    • #

      Well said, I’ve added to the post to clarify… how easily could he say after Paris that he stuck to the Coalition targets, but was just more flexible about how they would be met? He has shown no sign that he understands that a trading scheme can be so different from a tax. Indeed he argues that they are the same, and it’s true, a forced trading scheme is a tax, but a tax is not necessarily a forced trading scheme. One can be unwound by voters. The other creates a class of “property” holders who become lobbyists for it, and also in need to compensation to unwind it.

      UPDATE: Turnbull has said “he is sticking with the Government’s policies on climate change.” Does that mean he will not allow carbon credits to be purchased from overseas? It may do, but it is a detail that could so easily vanish. It’s only a small step to “stick with the current target” of 26% by 2030 but allow companies to buy foreign carbon credits. Pretty soon we’re buying, selling and holding EU carbon credits and dependent on rulings made in Brussels over which we have no control. Money and control will flow out of the nation. Carbon markets feed bureaucracies, bankers and corruption.

      Fake markets are not free markets.

      460

      • #
        Peter Miller

        Jo

        If you, or any of your Australian companies, want to buy some foreign carbon credits cheap, I have some Ukranian pals who will sell you some. The certificates are beautifully printed and embossed with gold filigree and there is even a beautiful picture of a tree on the back.

        They are supported by a lovely.forest just outside Chernobyl, which the owners have kindly agreed not to chop down to make wood pellets to feed UK power stations.

        It will really make you feel, good, green and smug if you buy some of these credits knowing that you are sending funds to an unaccountable money heaven.

        As for Turnbull, it looks like you guys have ‘chosen’ the equivalent of that cavalier-with-the-truth Gillard, a die hard ecoloon with the Judas touch.

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        metro 70

        Jo..
        Doesn’t an ETS have the potential to generate a type of sub-prime crisis–with those holders of carbon credits finding themselves holding worthless paper backed by nothing or by international fraud—those holding the paper when fraud reaches critical mass and it all collapses, ruined, depending on how much they’ve invested?

        Or would holders be covered by the fact that the whole scheme and its global oversight would end at that point so polluters could have open slather–and only pure traders would have paid for something worthless?

        20

        • #

          like any financial tool, the ETS could be part of a sub prime type crisis, it’s just more “funny money” to add to the pile.

          Even without that, the lack of any real product, or real demand means it is prone to corruption which we’ve already seen.

          70

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        • #
          Egor TheOne

          We now have a True B’lver as PM …..Goldman & Sacks of S..T banker , Carbon Credit wannabe trader !

          So far he is sticking to Abbott’s Script ,much to the dismay of the Eco-Loon socialists !

          I am suspicious , sooner or later , he will burst out of the Climate Closet into a full , born again True B’lver complete with Carbon Credits and team up with Carbon Credit King …… “Albert A Convenient Liar Gore” , who has keenly , already twitted our new esteemed PM !
          And as for number 2 , Julie Bishop , she cannot wait to donate 100′s of millions of our money to appease the Green Ratbag U.N. at the upcoming Paris True B’lver Fiasco where they will see who can tell the scariest premonitions and prophecies of doom …..and,for Bishop, all possibly just for a cozy future position in some U.N. New World Socialist Disorder !

          Now there’s one that knows how to keep her job!…… with at least True B’lver tendencies !

          Getting back to the Turncoat , if he was any more left , he could be Alp leader !

          If he stays how he is so far , he will be OK , but how can you trust this PM ?

          Makes perfect sense why he never used his authority as Communications Minister to pull the AlpgreensBC into line from constantly bagging Abbott , and was always insulting himself to undermine Abbott …….no wonder ,the Q&A clown show loved him !!!

          40

  • #
    handjive

    It is no secret that the Twistcow believes & promotes 97% Scary Doomsday Global Warming.

    That the Twistcow chooses not to act immediately on his ‘convictions’ that a 97% climate Doomsday is imminent, or here now, is a red flag for this punter.

    How long will the sneaky Twistcow hide under the sheep fleece of skepticism?

    271

  • #
    Peter C

    One of,your best posts Joe,

    Passionate, objective and to the point,

    I emailed Julie Bishop an hour ago e, expressing my dismay. Let’s see if she replies,

    220

    • #
      MudCrab

      I emailed her quoting parts from Act 5, Scene 1, Macbeth.

      Not heard back yet.

      To be honest I like your chances better.

      30

  • #
    doubtingdave

    It was YOU , the Liberal voter,that made Tony Abbot your prime minister , now the self serving hierarchy have said you were wrong ,slapped you down back in your place and taken action that puts their interests above yours, how do you feel about it and what will you do , stand up and fight back or let them win

    291

  • #
    John of Cloverdale, WA, Australia.

    Jo, I just posted this quote of yours (below)on Dennis Jensen’s Facebook page:

    If Turnbull signs us up to carbon trading in Paris, those 54 Liberal MPs and Senators who elected him will have totally sold out the voters. It’s up to the Liberal Party to constrain the member for Goldman Sachs. Global carbon markets could be worth $2 Trillion a year — bigger than coal, bigger than oil, the largest “commodity” traded. (Marvel — it’s not even a commodity.) Financial houses around the world have been salivating for a decade at the prospect of brokering deals on a new forced, fixed market made from thin air. It’s as if a whole giant currency might wink into existence.

    Even though Jensen is a AGW sceptic, he stills supports Turnbull.

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    • #
      BilB

      I challenge you John of Clovedale to substantiate your 2 trillion dollar claim. ie prove it.

      I’m not holding out for anything other than bluff and bluster from you, particularly as you appear to be unaware that the global oil and gas business, an industry that becomes thin air leaving only soot grime and lead behind, in 2015 is at 3.7 trillion, accuracy clearly not being your strong suite.

      338

      • #

        BilB, you really don’t read well do you? He’s quoting me, and I’m quoting the US “Commissioner Bart Chilton, head of the energy and environmental markets advisory committee of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC)” I’ve been quoting since 2009.

        Who is full of bluff and bluster then?

        361

        • #

          Here’s another quote from Bart (what would he know, eh?)

          “It [global carbon trading] wouldn’t be as large as some of the financial markets — Treasury bills — but it would be larger than any physical commodity market.”

          320

        • #
          BilB

          No, Jo. The 2 trillion is not t all correct. Look at Tony’s comment where he, in a very rational manner attempts to throw some figures at this starting with the total global CO2 emissions time a figure for cost per tonne of emissions. He chose $10 I chose $20. at twenty dollars the total cost of emissions licenses is just one $ Trillion, not 2 as you would like to inflate that to. Tony attempts to inflate the figure in his confusion by suggesting that multiple auctions require repeat payment in the same year. Not the case.

          On top of that though Jo, I personally do not support an auction system. There are far better ways to achieve the goal of emissions reductions at a small percentage of the cost and far faster.

          218

          • #

            Well, Bill-the-anonymous disagrees with Bart Chilten, Commissioner of the CFTC. Noted.

            Go look up “annual turnover”, you might get an inkling of why you have no idea…

            151

          • #

            Ah BilB, again you show that you’ve never bothered to look at how an ETS, any ETS is structured.

            The U.S. based theirs on the UN model, and couldn’t get that Bill up, all 987 pages of it, tough reading through all of that in 2010 let me tell you. It failed thankfully. Rudd had his people design our ETS along the same lines as that one, so similar as to be almost a carbon copy.

            The DESIGN Model from the UN, the only acceptable version, states categorically that Credits can only be traded at recognised, and designated auctions ONLY, and there are to be specified numbers of them only, so they cannot be traded outside of those designated auctions.

            So it’s so refreshingly encouraging that you have a better way of doing it.

            Oh, and please look up the word ….. turnover.

            Tony.

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            • #

              I was asked by the owner of the site I contribute at to write a critique of that Bill.

              Now, BilB, I understand that it’s anathema for you to read what might be at a Blog, but hey, pick any one of those top five Posts at this link. They’re all mine, and offer insight into one of the most insidious forms of revenue raising ever devised, the intent of any and all ETS.

              When you see how scary an ETS really is, you’ll see why thankfully, some American politicians at least saw that it failed to come into legislation.

              Tony.

              201

          • #
            Bite Back

            BilB,

            There is no fool greater than the one who, when led repeatedly to a better understanding than his, continues to insist that he is right and everyone else is wrong.

            You top that off by being the most obnoxious single “contributor” to this thread and Joanne’s blog in general. And I’m surprised that you haven’t been cut off long ago. You monopolize nearly this whole thread, your name appears more often than any other and it’s all wasted effort. No one appears to believe you. And I don’t believe you either.

            You should take your marbles and go play elsewhere. You would be better off talking to yourself in the mirror then commenting here. At least then your reflection would agree with you.

            BB

            42

        • #

          wow. the figures are the same 5 years later? Am I missing something? The currency? Anyway., It is all conjecture and models!

          00

      • #

        Ah BilB, you ever so indignantly say this:

        I challenge you John of Clovedale to substantiate your 2 trillion dollar claim. ie prove it.

        I seriously did not think I would see the day when someone, anyone, would admit on a site like this that they have no Maths skills whatsoever.

        Umm, let’s see now, there is currently a Worldwide total emission of CO2 of around 37 Billion tonnes each year.

        Now, that’s just CO2. When you add on the other 24 gases (as per this UN chart) and their multipliers, (their CO2 equivalence) that total rises to around 40 billion tonnes, and in fact is probably closer to 42 to 45 billion tonnes.

        Now, at the current price of $10 per tonne, then you’re looking at $450 Billion a year.

        There are between 6 and 8 specified trading periods throughout the year, and you would only need a fraction of those credits to be traded to rack up that $2 Trillion.

        Then BilB, if all that is beyond you, what about the setting up and continuation of reporting mechanisms, accurate measuring mechanisms, accounting mechanisms, bureaucratic mechanisms at many levels, Government record keeping measures, the trading costs themselves, the legals, and on it goes.

        BilB, $2 Trillion is probably low ball here.

        Oh, and BilB, about the car business thing. Say, 26% cut in emissions rolls over into the Transport sector as well., so that’s one in four cars taken off the road. And please don’t even begin to think they will be replaced by electric cars. One in four cars electric. You must be joking. They couldn’t make the batteries fast enough, and even if they could, the energy to charge them all would increase electrical power consumption off the scale. And Transport as a whole is not just cars BilB. It’s buses, ambulances, trains, boats, ships, planes, even mowers. If you think one in four of all of those is going to be electric, then you’re dreaming.

        So BilB, we’ve shown how your Science is lacking, only repeating what your Green handlers tell you to believe. You have comprehensively admitted here that you have no Maths skills. You obviously lack skills in reading, otherwise you would have been able to read all of this at those UN informational sites. You lack computer skills because you keep asking us for links, when you can surely write it into a search engine and go looking for yourself.

        BilB, I think we can safely draw a line under you here now. You’re done. Set up your own Blog and say it all there.

        Behold BilB! An example of how the the Australian education dollar is so utterly wasted.

        Tony.

        260

        • #
          BilB

          Hey Tony are you saying that emitters need to pay multiple times per year for the same emissions?

          I don’t think so. Pick what ever figure you like 45 gigatonnes at 20$ per tonne is just on one trillion for that years emissions. The 2 trillion argument falls over. Then there is the notion that people will do nothing about their emissions. False. Many businesses are addressing their emissions ahead of there being any emissions licensing. And many of the fixes are quite easy. For instance 25% of emissions from concrete production can be neutralised simply by fuelling the kilns with tyres made from natural rubber (ie fully recycled carbon and in the short term). Boom emissions go down and your trillion dollar carbon market is significantly less. And it represents a cost saving to the concrete industry.

          As we work through the emissions issues, it becomes blatantly obvious that the climate change alarmists are in fact the SKEPTICS.

          117

          • #

            Oh keep going. This is priceless.

            Now I’m certain you have no idea what an ETS actually entails.

            The credits are issued at the beginning of the year in the amount of CO2 (or equivalence gases) for the amount you are regulated to emit.

            Those credits can be traded at the specified trading periods throughout the year. They are bought and sold, you know ….. turnover, both of credits and cash.

            At the end of the year, the emitting entity has to hand back credits in the amount of their emissions, so at that last trading period then they need to either buy enough to make up to their total, and as you can see from that, the last trading period will be frenzied and the price will skyrocket.

            That $4 Trillion figure is , and wait for it ….. turnover, you know, a $2 Trillion business.

            So now I guess we can add economics to that list of subjects you know nothing about.

            This is so much fun!

            Tony.

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              BilB

              Tony, the permits are only paid for once per year. If 2 people trade the same permit between them selves every day this does not increase the cost of the emissions 365 times, it only incurs a brokerage fee 365 times. It is possible that a desperate business needing to make emissions but not have sufficient permits, such as an airline taking on new routes might pay more than the franked value of the permits which would have the effect of raising the value of the market, but I believe that the trading of permits has been so weak that the cost of carbon permits has slumped to near zero value.

              http://www.redd-monitor.org/2014/01/09/global-carbon-markets-have-shrunk-in-value-by-60-since-2011/

              So tell me again about your 2 billion dollar spectacularly accurate prediction, Tony.

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              • #

                Bill, carbon credits are a currency. You are not even remotely close to understanding what you talk about. If you had manners I’d forgive you for wasting our time with your ignorance.

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              • #
                BilB

                Jo it is you who hasn’t got a clue about any of this. Here is an article from your favourite rag valuing the global carbon market after an “astounding increase”….

                http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/latest/global-carbon-market-to-reach-record-volumes-by-2016/story-e6frg90f-1226840364879

                ….to US$84 billion. Oh my God. I just checked my calculator and that is one 24th of two trillion dollars, and just .84 percent of a hairy carbon gorilla.

                Face it Jo, you are a climate alarmist. You have turned into the very thing you hate the most.

                02

              • #

                Bilb, you poor thing, thinking that headlines mean something. For starters, the global carbon market peaked at $176b in 2011, took a big hit, and is recovering slightly. They always go silent on the falls, and then as it lifts, hide the history and make out the jump from the last dismal year is a record gain. You, of course fall for the media. Not too good with numbers?

                Secondly, that global market is a mere tiny shadow of what a real global market would be. Obviously it doesn’t include Africa, India, Japan, Korea, most of China, the USA, Australia, Canada, the middle East, South America etc etc etc.

                You are wasting my time and your lack of any honesty about your own ignorance is a bore. Please lift your standards.

                30

      • #
        Dave N

        “…accuracy clearly not being your strong suite.”

        “suite”? The irony: it burns!!!!

        20

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    BilB

    Jo, you are dreaming as usual to think that the public does not want climate action. Your biggest supporter in this fantasy just got SACKED, KNIFED, DUMPED, SPAT OUT, EVICTED,….and the rest of his party will have their own favourite term for axing the most offensive prime minister this country has had after John Howard. From what I heard in the post spill vitriol from his own party members was that they were relieved to be able to get back in step with all of the responsible countries of the world with decisive climate action.

    Every replay of Abbott speeches is fascinating as the outcomes are entirely the opposite of what he claimed. His 3 big “wins” were to beat up refugees in open waters, dispose of the mining tax that was yielding zero in revenue, and dispose of the Carbon price which was actually working and stimulating economic activity in the alternative energy sector. But an increasing number of commentators are referring to the collapse of Australia’s economic growth and its correlation with the removal of the Carbon Price,……and the axing of our automotive industry which would be fully competitive now that the dollar has fallen 40%.

    Abbott just could not do a single thing right, and that is because everything about him was a fraud. The Abbott government will be highlighted in history as the text book case of tenaciously wrestling defeat and failure from the jaws of victory.

    But it is too late to rescue Australia from recession. Turnbull has an impossible task in reviving this initiative depleted economy. I would think that there was half a chance if Turnbull was able to dissuade one car company from retreating, that would be a kind of iconic victory for good business sense. But I think that the negative forces are going to be too strong despite the immense export advantage that we have. The problem is that there is no one left who believes that we can make a go of industry. Our economy is top heavy with service industries and the one strong part of the economy, the building sector which is buoyed by the need to house our growing population, is funded by increasing the national debt which is now out to 2 trillion dollars I see in today’s news.

    So good riddance to Abbott, and hello new Prime Minister. Finally a prime minister who actually understands science.

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    • #

      Bilb, let the hate flow. Abbott stopped asylum seekers from drowning at sea. Feel the evil!

      If Abbott was a “Fraud” what was Craig Thompson and the Gillard government that depended on him? Got no words…

      Abbott is doing something to stop unions ripping off their workers. What’s Shorten doing — defending the corrupt.

      Honestly Bilb, normally you are not so rabid.

      642

    • #

      Oh BilB,

      nyuk nyuk nyuk!

      I’ll bet you don’t even realise what you’ve done here with this vitriolic comment. Your gloating has shown you up.

      You’ve based everything you have ever commented on here, not on Science, but your hatred for one side of politics.

      People, as you read BilB’s comment, don’t get angry.

      Just laugh at him.

      Truth will always out.

      Tony.

      512

      • #
        Bill

        Hard to laugh at such, as I recall the world laughed in 1928…, laughed in 1972…., and gain when Putin (ex KGB thug took power in Russia)

        Why should anyone laugh at such rabidness?

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      • #
        handjive

        “and the axing of our automotive industry which would be fully competitive now that the dollar has fallen 40%.”
        ~ ~ ~
        I, for one, am thankful BilB comments here.

        The ignorance, the low information green voter, the outrage. It’s all there.

        We have one very fine, fossil fuelled healthy specimen to observe & laugh at the stupidity required to ‘believe.’

        So, the cars, BilB.

        Why would you want a car industry if you believe a climate doomsday is imminent?

        Now, Tuesdays are car-free days in Gurgaon

        “It will save an average of 2.6 kg of greenhouse gas emissions per person per day.”
        . . .
        Join the dots, BilB. It’s a climate on steroids!
        Haw haw haw …

        260

        • #
          BilB

          Handjive? take your hand off it and start thinking.

          This years’s procession to the Governors lodge was a cavalcade of “beamers” when in the past it was Holdens, and perhaps for the environment should have been Priuses. Do we need to have a discussion about the economics of this as Australia slides into recession?

          [Have your fun.] AZ

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          • #
            David Maddison

            Actually, one of the reasons VIP government cars are BMWs is that they make some factory-produced armoured vehicles for VIP transport. As expensive as they are (PM vehicle is $550,000) they are still cheaper than trying to armour a standard vehicle. (I only mentioned the cost for conservatives, Labor people don’t care and think you can just print more money to pay for things.)

            280

            • #
              Dennis

              Not that I oppose the purchase or leasing of BMW security vehicles but please note they were ordered on Union’s Labor watch, the first to arrive was the BMW SUV used by Protective Services guarding PM Rudd that followed his car to Government House Canberra when he called the 2013 election

              70

          • #
            ianl8888

            Leyland, Chrysler, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford, GMH – all gone

            And you contend that Abbott caused all that ? …

            Wunderbar !

            Well, speak up, d!ckhead

            140

            • #
              Dennis

              The carbon tax and renewable energy surcharge, preceded by the Gillard gift to the unions (un) Fair Work Australia industrial relations giant backwards step was another of the reasons for the motor vehicle industry to give up in Australia, as have many other manufacturers.

              60

              • #
                BilB

                The primary reason, Dennis, was the $ exchange rate. It will all hit home in a couple of years time, as all of the dependent tiers of the automotive companies shut down one by one, and then the cost of the imports progressively ratchet up.

                06

          • #
            Manfred

            UN post 2015 Goal 3:
            3.6 By 2020, halve the number of global deaths and injuries from road traffic accidents

            Another desired UN goal doubtless also supported by driverless car…Reduce cars and promote driverless cars. Also fits well with the UN preference to see a declining ‘sustainable’ population.

            ‘Believing’ VIP’s should be riding armoured bicycles with an escort of the same.

            UN Government in Waiting.

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            handjive

            Hola BilB.

            Take my hand off it?

            I actually have two “it’s” because, no-one can play with one as much as me!

            But hey, all those jokes have been done to death, and there is no second prize.

            Maybe if those german beamers do 55kph, we will save the planet:

            A NEW speed limit of 55mph should be imposed on drivers to help cut global warming, MPs said last night.

            You know it makes sense.

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            • #
              BilB

              For Brittain the best plan is to transition to electric hybrid vehicles as quickly as possible. Then they have just one big problem, how to generate all of the electricity, and that is not as difficult as it might at first seem.

              06

              • #
                Ross

                Lots of solar power , I presume.
                I note your mates Stern, Deben and Worthington have changed their mind on fracking. So obviously there isn’t enough renewables even without all your hybrids.

                30

              • #
                BilB

                No not specifically, Ross, better use of the gas that they already consume can provide much of the electricity to power PHEV’s as well. Desertec was the solar plan for UK, but for the time being it is unachievable, so the path to sustainable power must take a deviation.

                02

      • #
        BilB

        TFO, you’re such a duffer. I give you credit for your experience and better intentions, but you let your imagined ideological loyalties override your intellect.

        [You'll just get laughed at all the more. But have it your way. I'll approve this for you.] AZ

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        • #
          OriginalSteve

          “So good riddance to Abbott, and hello new Prime Minister. Finally a prime minister who actually understands science.”

          John Christie in 2012 managed to trash every model in the IPCC AR4 report by comparing his basic temperature observations from weather balloons and satellites to the models. His results showed a 0.0-0.2C increase, versus a 0.4-1.2C IPCC predicted increase.

          BillB – would you care to comment?

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          • #
            BilB

            Thanks OriginalSteve,

            I think you are talking about Roy (praise the Lord) Spencer’s buddy. So are you saying that if I have a phd in climate science and come up with a set of graphs that fit a narrative that I like that is completely different to everyone else’s then my graphs should become the new climate standard? I don’t think that is how it works. Science is a huge web of cross correlated information. Maverick data sets get very special attention as they might signal some new phenomenon. I suspect that Christie’s data got that sort of attention but was found to be flawed. I don’t know as I have no prior knowledge of his work.

            The guiding rule is though, that a scientist needs to be able to prove quantitatively his theories, and he must do this with people with the knowledge to evaluate it on an equal knowledge level. I suspect that Christie has failed to pass that test. But he has managed to convince you, and that is important to you, so as far as Christie is concerned it is a watching brief to see if his observations pan out. So far not the case.

            18

            • #
              Winston

              Alarmist observations have not aligned with their theory. There is no positive feedback mechanism evident, water vapour is not enhancing the greenhouse effect in any way, there is nothing unusual about the climate thus far in the 21st century that is outside the normal variation in weather phenomenon witnessed since human beings first observed the weather in millennia past. The predictive value of consensus science in this area is virtually nil, even over a woefully compressed time frame for which we have satellite observations.

              If you were truly genuine in your concerns for the environment, you would acquaint yourself with Christie’s work as outlined above. But, tellingly, you are not interested. One of two reasons for this: either a closed mind not interested in any evidence that might contradict your preconceived notions, or you don’t really care whether CAGW is true or not and view it as a tool to achieve some political end. Either way, to pretend “the science” is remotely of interest to you is a deeply dishonest assertion on your behalf. The question is: are you being dishonest with us, or with yourself?

              71

        • #
          Winston

          BilB,
          Such obvious projection is duly noted.

          It is you who hasn’t engaged in any thinking, it is you who hasn’t shown diligence in advocating the CAGW movement without requiring a level of evidence commensurate with the societal upheaval it is likely to cause, and without accounting for the obvious likelihood for a new system to be imposed upon the world that would not only be vulnerable to unprecedented corruption and graft, but also has the potential to destroy the global economy, or worse to concentrate the wealth and resources of the world into the hands of a tiny few.

          Take a good look at the believers. Take a good look at Al Gore, look into his eyes and tell me you believe he has the best interests of the poorest and most vulnerable at heart, or is he more interested in power, influence and gaming the situation for the financial benefit of himself and the financial piranhas he chooses to swim with.

          Then take a look at Turnbull, look at his behaviour and do you think, seriously, that he has the interests of the common man at heart, or is he, as a climate change believer, only interested in providing an opportunity for corporate raider financial houses to redistribute the wealth of the middle classes in the developed world into their own pockets?

          Don’t you share any sense of moral obligation to take this into account when you align yourself in their court? I couldn’t live with myself if my advocacy made it more difficult for the starving to feed themselves, put power at such a premium that the bottom levels of society in the West couldn’t afford to heat themselves, or that middle class aspirational families found themselves squeezed financially into a corner that caused a two tier society with an ever widening gulf between them.

          While I’m sure this latter hierarchy is every Marxist’s wet dream, it is hard to understand how that collateral damage would sit easily upon the conscience of someone who might consider themselves enlightened.

          I’ll be sure to look forward to your usual evasive, dismissive or content free response in due course.

          61

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘…get back in step with all of the responsible countries of the world with decisive climate action.’

      There are more sceptics in Australia than anywhere else in the world and we intend to win this war of words. With the approach of global cooling its obvious that most of the western world is out of step with reality.

      ‘.…and the axing of our automotive industry which would be fully competitive now that the dollar has fallen 40%.’

      It was a company decision to quit and you know it, the operation was not viable without subsidies.

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      • #
        James Murphy

        I always crack a smile when I see political activists, ‘non-conformists’, the usual ‘bobo’, or ‘hipster’ crowd, and those wanting independence, freedom of choice, and seeking to escape the heinous shackles of servitude placed upon them by ‘big business’, ‘big banks’ and ‘big oil’, sanctimoniously, and hypocritically preach that we should do exactly what everyone else is doing, so we fit in.

        110

      • #
        BilB

        Won’t you have to actually have Global Cooling first, el Gordo, or even the vaguest hint of it. Standing in front of your fridge with the freezer door open does not count as Global Cooling.

        14

    • #
      toorightmate

      BilB,
      Abbot really let himself down by being a very nice, hard working and trusting individual.
      To put Turnbull and Science in the one sentence fits the definition of “oxymoron”.
      You just go and gloat with your fellow luvvie lefties old mate.

      A conspiracy theory getting around is that it’s a Bishop stage show. She will organise Malcolm’s “farewell” in the not-too-distant future and then she will have killed two birds with the one stone. I wonder?

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    • #
      Bulldust

      Commentators think the carbon tax (sic) promoted economic growth?

      Show me a link and I shall show you an economic imbecile.

      140

      • #

        Bulldust says this:

        Commentators think the carbon tax (sic) promoted economic growth?

        Think of Coles and Woolworths and to a lesser degree, the other major Supermarkets.

        You raise the cost of electricity by 3.5 cents per KWH, which was the impost of that Carbon (Dioxide) Tax.

        It increases the electricity bill for just one Coles Outlet by around $70,000, and that’s just the increase.

        With almost 800 outlets across Australia, that’s an increase in the amount they pay for electricity by $56 Million a year, an extra $1 Million a day.

        Then there was the up to 400% increase on the cost of their refrigerant gases if any of the huge banks and banks of cold storage needed regassing.

        I fail to see how any of that is going to promote economic growth.

        That’s just Coles, just the one Chain of supermarkets.

        Those costs need to be recovered by increasing the costs of their products across the range.

        So, at the Residential level, you paid your household electricity account which increased, and then at every place you shopped you also paid extra for their cost recovery as well.

        You pay and pay and pay.

        That’s the end result of a CO2 Tax or an ETS.

        The middleman collects it, passes it on the Government, and they send it off to the UN.

        Tony.

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        • #
          James Murphy

          To be fair, no one has ever specified where this economic growth was supposed to happen, I mean, numbered swiss bank accounts and the like, can increase the numbers of digits in their account balances, and that could be called economic growth, couldn’t it…?

          50

        • #
          BilB

          Tony,

          Go back and graph your power charge rate. My power bill doubled and there was no Carbon tax. Where did that money go? Into the pockets of the electricity distributors. you are completely deluded about what caused electricity price increases and what it meant to business. Electricity for 95% of business is a petty cash item when measured against their turnover. So yes you can write up a big scary figure, as you alarmists like to do, but the other figure is the turnover that covers that scary figure which you will find is something like $50 to $90 million dollars gross turnover for your supermarket.

          But let me remind you,….there is no carbon tax……there was only ever a carbon price and that was for just one year. the doubling of electricity prices had nothing what ever to do with a carbon tax or a carbon price.

          25

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            BilB:

            The networks were ‘gold plating’ their infrastructure, mostly to deal with the rush to renewables.
            When you have a few big suppliers running constantly then control is a lot easier than when you have millions of tiny electricity producers dumping power into the grid at odd intervals.

            The State governments had been using them as ‘cash cows’ for years and reducing maintenance and replacement budgets. This all had to be remedied as well. It just goes to show that letting people who know nothing about the subject dictate what happens winds up with an expensive mess.

            42

    • #
      MudCrab

      Wow. This IS funny.

      Do you do stand up?

      Can we go to your gigs?

      62

    • #
      Egor TheOne

      The Socialism is strong with you , but you are not a Marxist yet !

      Climate policy is the greatest fraud on the planet today !

      Politically….World Socialism by the back door !

      Why is it , only a great big new tax can save the world ?

      Why is it that so many are so anxious to give so much away …..and with zero proof …..and with not even one prophecy remotely fulfilled ???

      How many dud predictions have to fail before the True B’lvers question their faith ???

      Why is it that all its public advocates are all without exception , making money from it ??

      Why is it that the Televangelist True B’lver Eco Loons cannot even decide what name to give their Faith ???

      Global Cooling ……Global Warming….Global Weirding……Global Disruption ……Global Climate Disruption ………How about >>>> GLOBAL CLIMATE CORRUPTION …..the only description that is accurate out of the lot !

      Predictions that have come true = ZERO = NOT ONE !

      Conclusion …….Very Sad ….. True B’lvers are either Frauds or Kookoo ,or both !

      It’s the old ” All Scientists Say ” Trick >>>>>

      http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/climate-change-warnings-over-the-years.jpg

      71

    • #
      BilB

      71 red thumbs, that has got to be getting close to some sort of record. Come on people keep going lets see if we can make it right the way up there to 100 wounded prides.

      [I hate to break this news to you, Bill. But it's not wounded pride, it's plain old disagreement with what you say.] AZ

      12

      • #
        BilB

        79 now. The agony is intense. you should be grateful that I don’t share my enlightenment across your whole thread.

        02

    • #
      metro 70

      BilB should be BileB.

      I’ve been watching politics a long time and never -ever- has a PM or any politician–even some Labor ones exposed and jailed as pedophiles—been subjected to the vile demonization worldwide—the visceral hatred 24/7 from ABC and SKY and the rest of the Left—the character assassination and lies –that Tony Abbott has had to absorb in these two years and for years before.

      The venom and malice is a disgrace to Australia, and I can only despair at the mindless vindictive country Australia seems to have become.

      The ABC is continuing their crucifixion without let-up even as we speak.

      Not content with finally bringing TA down in the virtual Lab/MSM coup they mounted from day one post-election- ABC is hell-bent on grinding a really good man and his great legacy to dust .

      IMO this country is no longer a democracy–all power lies with the 99.9% LW ‘journalists’ who create the perceptions–tell the lies and propaganda that drive the polls that create the perceptions…that drive more polls…

      What are we–the people— for? We’re forced to vote but our vote is meaningless if our pick is not the ‘right’ pick—the MSM pick.

      When that happens, our pick for PM/govt is doomed from the start—helpless against the massive power of the LW hacks who rip and tear until they shred and eviscerate the hapless PM who was elected by the people in a landslide.

      When his polls are of course rock bottom no matter what amazing policies he pulls off in such circumstances–the panickers in his team gets antsy–and before long it’s all over and we’re told it’s the democratic process working.

      What is the point of the people voting at all—and with the people’s vote totally irrelevant—how can it POSSIBLY be called a democracy??

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      • #
        BilB

        Metro 70,

        you will need to read some of the accounts of victims of sociopaths before you will see just how you have been manipulated by a master deceiver, Tony Abbott. Your idea of reality is still the extensive fiction supplied to you by your captor, TA. Naturally every thing that you hear said about him by others seems to be lies to you, when in reality this is the rest of the country coming out from the web of fiction. You will eventually see the other side.

        I will bet that you saw a number of the pre election factory visit daytime broadcast series where TA visited factories and gave a talk with the managers and owners of these companies. The perpetual theme was “we have to get rid of this toxic tax” and “this toxic tax will destroy Australian industry” and Abbott would get the business person to say some words. That was all BS. There was not a carbon tax for another 3 years. But he repeated the lie over and over dozens of times and you believed it because the business person standing there gave credence to the lie. I phoned a number of those general managers, and every time their problems were entirely about the high value of the Australian dollar, and transport fuel costs.

        That is how thought manipulation works, and you are just one of the hundreds of thousands who bought the carbon tax and economic collapse lie. Victims routinely give everything of themselves to these sick people, handing over everything that they own because their reality is completely under the control of their captor, and his minions if there are any. It often only takes one piece of information to snap the thread of deceit. Give it some time, it will come.

        15

        • #

          Explain how a carbon tax makes us richer. Go for it… join the dots. First the mechanism ……………….

          Otherwise you are a victim of thought manipulation deluding yourself that we are victims of thought manipulation.

          50

          • #
            BilB

            That is fairly straight forward, however it does depend on collected funds being used efficiently and that is the part which does require scrutiny.Small specifically targeted taxes or levies from time to time are used to seed fund technology and infrastructure that provides a broad economic good. An example would be the fairly small portion of your rates that provides for the installation of sewerage systems. Some would say “we should have the right to provide our own sewerage”, that would be the cheapest. To that I say they are almost certainly not properly accounting the costs.

            I was just listening to an item about a guy who takes on making everyday things entirely himself for research. The example was a chicken salad sandwich. He grew all of the ingredients (wheat, lettuce carrots,etc), made all of the components (bread, cheese, etc), killed and processed the chicken, and then put the sandwich together. the report was that the sandwich was OK. The bread was dense the cheese and butter were passable, the rest of the ingredients were good. However it took 200 hours of his time and a disproportionate amount of money to produce that one sandwich.

            We benefit immeasurably from community cooperation and individual specialisation, which reduces the cost of virtually everything that we take for granted enabling each person to specialise in their interests to the benefit of all others mutually. The problem with this for a hand full of people is that they want to pick and chose which parts of the broad community that they want to pay for and which parts they don’t. You just can’t do that in a community, it is all in together, or find a community somewhere else that meets ones own sharing preferences. And there is plenty of choice with every degree of caring from ISIS to New York to a Kibbutz or C J Owens’ farm.

            When it came to reinvesting in our electricity infrastructure we had options. There was the 3 cents a unit levy option, my preference, which would have taken electricity prices from 13 cents to 17 cents a unit for a period of years until the entire grid power generation system was rebuilt in whatever form was deemed most efficient. Giant slush fund every idiot screamed. Then there was the market based carbon reduction mechanism which partly worked. Then there was the “allow the industry to do what ever they like” method which had no tax or levy involvement but cost a doubling of electricity prices with no benefit whatsoever to consumers.

            This is still a work in progress but I leave it up to you which investment approach will yield the greatest benefit at the lowest cost. The one we have in play is the free market method. Is that working out for you, Jo? Do you have a better suggestion?

            12

            • #

              You could answer the question instead… how does the carbon tax make us richer?

              We don’t get more stuff, we don’t get more free time, we aren’t healthier, and we don’t get nicer weather.

              21

              • #

                “The one we have in play is the free market method.”

                No not remotely. I have no problem with a real free market in carbon. That’s where everyone is free to buy or not buy carbon credits.

                How many people would buy them, what would the price be? Only 2% of people even pay a couple of dollars to offset their flight emissions.

                There was a free market in carbon emissions for most of history and it was worth ziltch.

                21

            • #

              Right here with this Comment, BilB makes the same mistake as everyone did when it came to the Carbon Tax, or the ETS.

              They assumed that the money raised would be for use here in Australia.

              That is patently false.

              All the money raised was to be sent to the UN.

              The targeted Annex ll Countries, 24 of them have to pay ALL the costs of the remaining Still Developing Countries.

              How they were to do this is via the introduction of the UN based model for an ETS and all money raised is to forwarded to the UN.

              I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve been called out for BS on that.

              I haven’t just made this up. It’s taken directly from the UN’s own documents on The Kyoto Protocol, and their documents on the UNFCCC.

              It’s taken verbatim from those documents, and you only need to go and read them to find that out.

              THAT is what people have not been told about any imposition of an ETS or even the Carbon Tax.

              That’s why Rudd planned it and introduced because, after he ratified Kyoto at Bali, he was then obliged to introduce the Tax, leading to the ETS. He signed us up to it, so now he had to agree to abide by the rules.

              BilB, you only have to go and read it all to find out for yourself.

              Not one dollar of any ETS is for use here in Australia.

              It all goes to the UN, lock stock and barrel.

              Tony.

              11

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          I disagree its about thought manipulation – as any good propagandist knows, repeating a lie long enough it becomes a truth, in weird sort of way.

          A tax is a drain on employment capability, simple as that. More tax, less employment. More tax, less productivity. Taxation for the sake of it is a leftist disease – look at the basket cases of scandanavia and the moral morass that has become too.

          A carbon tax is the epitomy of rank stupidity and narcistic manipulation of a population – it “solved” a problem that never existed, funded an unprovable scam while draining money from a useful industry and indulged the egos of the people who implemented it.

          I guess its typical of leftist “logic”

          10

  • #
    Neville

    Well we haven’t got long to wait to see whether the electorate is really upset or not.
    Before Turnbull was elected the Canning by- election polling was about 52/ 48 for the Libs, but the latest polling has extended that to 57/43 Libs.
    And the big betting firms have shown a dramatic surge in support for the Coalition. The bottom graph is the mean of the probability of a Coalition win. If true then that’s a real hockey stick. But we’ll know more after this Sat vote in Canning and I hope Hastie wins because he’s the best candidate by a mile. But until then who knows?

    http://marktheballot.blogspot.com.au/2015/09/the-morning-after.html

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      An immediate jump is usual after a change. The question is “will it be sustained?”

      Turnbull would not hold an election before Paris, would he? It would be obvious to most then that he intended to sign up on the sly.
      His other options are to sign up and leave the election to late next year in the hope that the anger blows over. The other is to see if Paris turns out to be the usual dud and wait until the next time.

      110

  • #
    Neville

    Here is the list of candidates as they appear on the ballot paper.
    Hastie is 6 above both Labor and the Greens.

    http://www.aec.gov.au/canning/voting.htm#candidates

    60

    • #
      AndyG55

      I hope Hastie does get up.

      He seems like an honorable person, unlike the dishonorable, slimy twerp that is now PM.

      Maybe after Labor destroys the country after next election, Hastie will be there to help pick up the pieces.

      171

    • #
      Angry

      I hope that the liberal party is severely punished and loses by a massive margin in the by election.

      They deserve it !

      38

      • #
        Dennis

        Captain Hastie, the honourable half of the Parliamentary Liberal Party in Canberra and the National Party Coalition members do not deserve defeat in Canning, and that seat is not in danger of being lost. In 2013 it was won in a landslide victory and resulting 11% margin in favour of the Liberals. At all or most by-elections there is a protest vote, Canning will return to normal margin of maybe 4-5% in favour of the government.

        Voters are waking up to the Union controlled Labor Party, and its leader who is being revealed for his union official track record in fifteen files of evidence taken at the Trade Union Royal Commission when he appeared as a witness, and he is due to reappear again soon. Some thirty people have already been referred by the TURC inquiry to legal agencies.

        40

  • #

    Obviously, the UK isn’t the only place having a late silly season on the politics front.

    https://thepointman.wordpress.com/2015/09/11/political-abberation/

    Pointman

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  • #
    Robert O

    I remember writing an Email to the Member for Wentworth a few years ago over his position on global warming and pointing out that its scientific basis was fairly dubious and a carbon tax unlikely to have much effect on temperatures: He did reply to his credit, but took the postion of the precautionary principle, better to do something now in case the AGW hypothesis is correct. Doesn’t seem much point in taking action for a non-existing problem when there are plenty of real problems to address. Pehaps he has changed his opinion and concentrate on real economic issues now he is PM.

    160

  • #

    Consider this.

    When I started doing this piddling little thing I do back in March of 2008, Australia’s emissions were 1.35% of the World’s total emissions.

    Right now, in 2015, Australia’s emissions are 1.1% of the World’s total emissions.

    Now, read this next bit very carefully.

    IF WE DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, then by 2030, Australia’s emissions will be 0.3% of the World’s total emissions.

    How can that be?

    With the increase in emissions from mainly China, and to a slightly lesser extent India and the rest of the still Developing World, then our percentage falls ….. and as you can see, falls dramatically.

    At that time, in 2030, politicians will be crawling all over themselves to say what a huge success our policies have been.

    We could have done nothing.

    Whatever we do do will make even that low percentage change so little as to be indistinguishable from doing absolutely nothing.

    Now, in the interim, and wait for this, Australia will be emitting just on 600 Million tons of CO2, and CO2 equivalence greenhouse gases.

    Now, with the introduction of any ETS no matter what, and with the current cost at around $10 per tonne, then that ETS will be raising around $6 Billion each year, and that will be shuffled off in its totality to the UN for redistribution, minus the middle men’s cuts.

    Not one cent of that will be paid by the actual entities doing the emitting, because every cent of it, lock stock and barrel will have been passed on to consumers, at every level.

    There will be the appearance that our emissions have fallen, but that is illusory, as the percentage has gotten smaller because the overall total has increased so much.

    See the magic trick here.

    Emissions have fallen, and the talk will be only of how the ETS has decreased our emissions.

    Any reduction will be so piddlingly small as to be visible only under extreme magnification.

    This has nothing whatsoever to do with lowering CO2 emissions.

    It’s only about one thing.

    The Money.

    And each of us, the public, you and me will be the ones paying.

    We will have been conned, and not only allowed ourselves to be conned, but we will have actually cheered those who have conned us, and rewarded them for doing it.

    I’ll be too old then, when this time comes, and there will be no point coming back, (well, where would I come back to) and saying I told you so, because no one will believe me.

    Look what’s happening in Asia as coal fired power ramps up, not just a little, but exponentially.

    They don’t care. They’re not paying any heed to the UN. Heavens above, the UN enshrined in law that they can do whatever they want.

    WE ARE THE ONLY TARGET HERE.

    We allowed this, and there’s really nothing we can do about it. No one will listen to what we say, no matter how right we are. They just laugh at us.

    Tony.

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    • #
      Captain Dave

      Succinct and frightening. Applicable to most Western countries.

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      • #
        Manfred

        On 25 September 2015, Pope Francis will address the UN General Assembly.

        Observe the media frenzy! It is ordained that peoples’ attention is captured by this UN session.

        The opening of the 70th Regular Session of the UN General Assembly (UNGA 70) and general debate, starts with an address by The Pope to the UN Assembly, doubtless expanding upon the Encyclical he gave earlier this year.

        Indeed, in the words Captain Dave used,’ succinct and frightening‘ fit the aspirations of this 70th session at the UN.

        I have posted this UN draft document recently on a couple of occasions because I think it is critical everyone understands the proximity of the emergent totalitarian nightmare taking the palpable form of explicit supra-national UN Governance.

        Sometimes referred to as ‘Agenda 21′ it is now simply referred to in UN documents as ‘The Agenda‘….easy and quick to read, this draft document is utterly chilling and it is where our national leaders are taking us come hell or high water. It encapsulates the intended macro and micro management of all aspects of global society. No stone is left unturned.

        The Draft outcome document of the United Nations summit for the adoption of the post-2015 development agenda.
        PLEASE, I humbly ask you all to scan this document. It is required reading for anyone remotely interested in what our present and near future will resemble and it is explicit in its language of compulsion. While the weather or fiat currencies are in some measure a distracting trivia of the moment, they nevertheless do represent the manifest and incremental creep of UN control.

        In truth, it’s ALL the politicians who have to be stopped…but with >4,000 NGO’s and what the UN euphemistically describes as ‘civil society’ it’s depressingly hard to see how the UN momentum may now be arrested.

        4.As we embark on this great collective journey
        5.This is an Agenda of unprecedented scope and significance
        6.The Goals and targets are the result of over two years of intensive public consultation and engagement with civil society and other stakeholders around the world… [the >4,000 NGO's]

        We can never now say we didn’t know what was coming, or indeed, we weren’t warned. It terrifyingly epitomizes ‘Atlas Shrugged‘.

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        • #
          Ross

          The problem is Manfred , I don’t think most politicians realise this at all. Maybe a copy has to be sent to each MP and ask then if they agree with the direction the UN wants to go. Then set up a website with a list of the MPs , firstly showing they have responded and then a very succinct summary of what they said.

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          • #
            Manfred

            Ask yourselves just what the hell the UN thinks it is doing advising Governments that they need to reduce the number of road traffic accidents by 50% in 5 years?

            Is this what the founders had in mind in 1945 after the first atom bombs had been dropped, after the attempted genocide of The Jews, and after some 50 million people had died throughout the duration of WW2?

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            • #
              Yonniestone

              I could not just imagine but picture what my Grandfather and Great Uncles would say about the current state of the country that they fought and suffered for and just like their experiences it wouldn’t be pretty.

              All this selfish globalist sell out and they had the audacity to attend fu@#$%g Anzac ceremonies marking 100 years!

              30

    • #
      Leo Morgan

      With respect, Tony, you are calling Anthropogenic emissions ‘the world’s emissions’. That results in 20fold overestimation of the amount of Australia’s emissions.

      00

  • #
    pat

    for those who have been asking who voted for Turnbull, the following reveals many of them, but not all. I have heard of a couple more but, as I vote informally, I am not familiar with the names & can’t recall who they were:

    15 Sept: Australian: Sarah Martin: Abbott v Turnbull: how the Liberal party room voted
    Senior ministers including Christopher Pyne, George Brandis, Ian Macfarlane and Julie Bishop were among the 14 of the 35 Liberal frontbenchers who backed the leadership spill to install Mr Turnbull as the country’s new Prime Minister.
    Crucial support was garnered from Victorian, Western Australian and South Australian MPs in order to topple Mr Abbott, with members of the centre right shifting to support Mr Turnbull…
    In Victoria, Senator Scott Ryan and assistant social services minister Mitch Fifield led the charge for Mr Turnbull, and were critical in building support among right-aligned MPs needed for the leadership coup.
    Queensland Liberal National Party senator James McGrath, South Australian senator Simon Birmingham and Education Minister Christopher Pyne were also critical in counting numbers for Mr Turnbull.
    Other ministers in the Turnbull camp included Human Services Minister Marise Payne and Assistant Defence Minister Stuart Robert…
    Rising stars Kelly O’Dwyer, Paul Fletcher and Steve Ciobo also backed in the change…
    …two of Mr Turnbull’s supporters — Western Australian senator Dean Smith and Veterans Affairs minister Michael Ronaldson — were not in Canberra, and arrived too late for the leadership vote.
    Senator Ronaldson arrived in time for the deputy vote, and backed Ms Bishop…
    Mr Turnbull entered yesterday’s meeting flanked by Senators Ryan and Fifield, Arthur Sinodinos, Wyatt Roy, Mal Brough and Peter Hendy.
    Earlier Mr Roy and Victorian MP Sharman Stone had indicated they would also switch their vote…
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/abbott-v-turnbull-how-the-liberal-party-room-voted/story-fn59niix-1227527471098?sv=945ec9438f46efbb67d0e6c8b6ebe70c

    more here and in the comments, tho I may not missed some:

    15 Sept: Truebluenz: List of MPs who voted for Malcolm Turnbull in Australian PM spill
    Hon Bronwyn Bishop MP Member for Mackellar, New South Wales
    Marise Payne Senator for New South Wales
    Dr Dennis Jensen MP Member for Tangney, Western Australia
    Mrs Jane Prentice MP Member for Ryan, Queensland
    Scott Ryan Senator for Victoria
    Mr Ross Vasta MP Member for Bonner, Queensland
    Mrs Lucy Wicks MP Member for Robertson, New South Wales
    http://truebluenz.com/2015/09/15/list-of-mps-who-voted-for-malcolm-turnbull-in-australian-pm-spill/

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  • #
    pat

    14 Sept: Platts: Frank Watson: Industry group seeks unified CO2 market at Paris climate talks
    The International Emissions Trading Association Monday urged countries to agree to a new unified international carbon market project crediting mechanism at a United Nations climate summit in Paris in December.
    Geneva-based IETA urged governments attending the UN climate talks to adopt decisions that would unify the range of emissions crediting systems currently in place and to make the new system operational by 2017.
    ***”Developing countries can move to low-carbon pathways faster with the right set of market mechanisms and tools,” the group said in a position paper setting out its priorities for the Paris summit…
    IETA called for all those systems (CDM, Joint Implementation, Redd+, New Market Mechanism) to be unified into a single coherent crediting system for the post-2020 period, which would allow countries to transfer units from their national action plans to other countries, based on a transparent accounting framework.
    “The Paris 2015 climate summit can prompt a sustained wave of business action and investment through carbon markets,” IETA said.
    “In the past year, hundreds of governments and businesses have sounded a call for carbon pricing to stimulate transformative investments in climate action…
    If the Paris summit produces no clear guidance and architecture on international carbon markets, it could result in fragmented actions and weak signals on carbon pricing,” it warned…
    http://www.platts.com/latest-news/coal/london/industry-group-seeks-unified-co2-market-at-paris-26208545

    READ ALL THE FOLLOWING:

    11 Sept: NZ Herald: Brian Fallow: Brian Fallow: Carbon cuts just an illusion
    New Zealand greenhouse gas emitters have been meeting their obligations under the emissions trading scheme with thoroughly debased coin.
    The Environmental Protection Agency reports that 74 per cent of the emission reduction units (ERUs) surrendered to the Government to balance last year’s emissions were imported carbon credits generated by the “joint implementation” provisions of the Kyoto Protocol. In 2013 they formed 91 per centof units surrendered; in 2012 it was 70 per cent.
    The integrity of these units has long been questioned…
    And it turns out that the environmental integrity of those units was pretty much zero, too…
    As Lizzie Chambers of Carbon Match, a trading platform for NZUs, points out, the European Union’s offer for Paris includes “no contribution from international credits”.
    The United States says, “At this time, the United States does not intend to utilise international market mechanisms to implement its 2025 target.”…
    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11510955

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  • #
    pat

    why bother to elect politicians?

    14 Sept: Bloomberg: Nash: California Lawmakers Just Gutted Brown’s Climate Bills. So What?
    by Mark Chediak & James Nash
    Jerry Brown’s dreams of cutting California’s gasoline use in half and imposing a stricter limit on greenhouse-gas emissions may have died on the legislative floor last week. But they live on elsewhere.
    There are plenty of ways for the four-term governor to achieve his goals with an ***end-run around the legislature. For one, Brown has state agencies under his control already entrusted with his climate change mission. And he suggested last week that he’s ready to use them to achieve his targets.
    The California Air Resources Board that runs the state’s carbon market and other programs aimed at curbing pollution “has all the power that it has had, and it will continue to exercise that power, certainly as long as I’m governor,” Brown said during a press conference with reporters Sept. 9…
    The governor of the most populous U.S. state would be taking a page straight from the Obama administration’s play book, exacting his climate policies ***through regulatory means after failing to push them through the legislature…
    ***In the absence of a legislative mandate, Brown may also issue executive orders or start a ballot initiative to achieve his climate goals, Levinson said…
    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-09-14/california-lawmakers-just-gutted-brown-s-climate-bills-so-what-

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    tom0mason

    So well put Jo!

    Turnbull has said “he is sticking with the Government’s policies on climate change.” Does that mean he will not allow carbon credits to be purchased from overseas? He needs to specifically rule that out (as Abbott did). It’s only a small step to “stick with the current target” of 26% by 2030 but allow companies to buy foreign carbon credits. Pretty soon we’re buying, selling and holding EU carbon credits and dependent on rulings made in Brussels over which we have no control. Money and control will flow out of the nation. Carbon markets feed bureaucracies, bankers and corruption.

    To which I have some questions –

    Is Australia a westernized, industrial nation?
    Do you have a stable economy?
    Are you happy to live, work, save, and prosper within your own borders?


    Well come December all that will change, as the UN elite gets ready to fleece the sheeple in the great new game of shear the western nations.

    Is there a politician in any Western nation prepared to stand up and protect his/her nation? Ready to protect it against the UN’s political puppets of the big banks, the greens, and the communists? A politician ready to offer real protection from the UN elitists’ very real attacks on Western nation’s sovereignty, your wealth, and everyone’s freedoms?

    Well, is there!?

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    • #
      Ross

      tomomason

      It looks like you have the Nationals to thank for that.

      http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/turnbull_spends_2_billion_to_become_prime_minister/

      Interesting Turnbull is doing the “captains call” bit already. Something I believe Abbott was criticised for by his caucus.

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    • #
      Manfred

      Ross….exactly, although it’s explicit now and it’s starting September 25th. COP21 Paris-ites snailfest is the dressing on the cake, the i dotting t crossing rubber stampede if you will.

      I am picking that The Pope will make ‘The Agenda’ clear in his address to the UN Assembly on the 25th. I’m prepared to wager that this will be an explicit public declaration of The Agenda.

      The UN has morphed from a Global Security Forum into a Government-in-Waiting, nicely expressed at the UN Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), a unifying platform for sustainable development, where one can read of the of the UN endeavours to…

      Providing overall coordination and guidance for development funds and programmes of the UN through its Operational Activities for Development Segment (23-25 February 2015) where the Australian contribution may be seen here

      “The post-2015 agenda, and growing diversity of sources of finance for development…..”

      40

  • #
    Richard Ilfeld

    “Carbon markets feed bureaucracies, bankers and corruption.

    Fake markets are not free markets.’

    They are taxes in disguise. The Govt. has an inexhaustible desire for money, as it has an inexhaustible list of desired works. Also important is the item that the more money flows past politicians, that more that seems to stick to them and their buddies,one way or the other. In the US half the riches counties are around Washington DC, where nothing tangible is produced, extracted, or exchanged.

    When raising taxes will bring out the tar and feathers, a subterfuge is required. “Climate change” and all its hideous offspring fill the bill, moving tons of resources from the private, productive sector to the operations of hte governmental borg.

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    jim2

    Can someone explain to the non-Ozonian how Prime Ministers get elected there? So, I take it, (s)he isn’t voted on by citizens at large?

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    • #

      Members of the majority party form a circle and plunge daggers into the the back of the person in front. The one with the most daggers gets to be acclaimed leader of the party in parliament and can go hat in hand to the Governor General and claim confidence of the parliament to form a government (or somesuch).

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    • #
      Leo Morgan

      Hi Jim,
      You’re correct, the PM is not elected by the populace at large. (In fact, our Constitution makes no provision for the office of Prime Minister, but that’s another story.)
      The Leader of the Party that holds the most seats in parliament is appointed Prime Minister.
      These Members of Parliament are directly elected, and each of them votes (from amongst their number) for the party leader who becomes PM. Non-party members don’t get a say. The public does nevertheless know who the Leaders are at the time of the election. Doing it this way avoids the conflict of a PM who cannot work with his colleagues, e.g. the equivalent of a Democrat Leader and Republican Parliament.
      It also means the party can change the leader. Which they have done. But the outrage that the public and the membership feel when it is done for the sake of personal ambition rather than principle is going to defeat this Government utterly.

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    • #

      jim2

      I contribute at a large blog based in the U.S. in Pennsylvania.

      The owner of the site asked me to write up something to explain the electoral process here in Australia, and that Post is at the following link.

      I hope it is of assistance.

      The Australian Electoral Process Explained

      Tony.

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      • #
        ScotsmaninUtah

        Tony,
        thank you I just read that link … it was very useful in understanding the Australian system.

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      • #
        Russell from Tas

        Thank you Tony. I think you explained things quite succinctly in relation to the national level. It might be worth having a go at explaining how state level voting works, since it is quite different in many respects. This is particularly pertinenthere in Tasmania where we have the ridiculous Hare – Clarke system that resulted in the Watermelon Party being able to stop all progress in the state until last year’s election that, thankfully, produced a Liberal majority.

        50

  • #
    Leo Morgan

    Hi all.
    The vociferous response to Turncoat’s “I won” speech on the Liberal Party’s home page is running about fifty to one against, with many voters announcing they’ll never vote Liberal again.
    Sadly, that’s giving the election to the Loonie left, also a very bad idea. We should try to do something else. I’ve been posting and sharing variations of the following text on Facebook:
    I invite you to like and share this page. https://www.facebook.com/Bring-Back-Tony…/timeline/
    Then, we should do other things: 1) Encourage the party to reverse the mistake 2) encourage the preselectors to disendorse the backstabbers. 3) Encourage the membership to pressure the preselectors to do that. 4) Enccourage the public to pressure the members to do that. 5) Encourage the Nationals to run a candidate in every election. 6) Encourage the voters to vote against a Turnbull government.

    I encourage you to do the same.

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    • #
      The Backslider

      Your link is broken.

      10

    • #
      Leo Morgan

      Jo, the text below is not mine, but I think we should take it’s advice.
      Any chance we can get contact details for all the Nationals in parliament?

      ATTENTION ALL AUSSIE’S – MUST READ!!!!!!!!!

      Just spoken to Warren Truss Canberra Office. The NATS, and I would say all of those in the Liberal Party, are well aware of the UN Agreement waiting to be signed in Paris this December. That Agreement, once signed, will hand over Australia’s Sovereignty to the UN – Their One World Government = Totalitarian Communist Rule. Think about the future of all generations to come!
      The Nats are in discussion now, as to, will they support Malcolm Turnbull as PM. Call Warren Truss Office, NOW TODAY AND EVERYDAY THIS WEEK. Bombard them, tell them, NOT to support MT as PM. This is OUR only chance to save Australia from the UN,Think – ETS, Mass Islamic Migration, think EU today!, Control of every aspect of your lives, where you live where you can go, All of the Hertitage Parks will be out of bounds to ALL Humans, thats in the UN Documents. The END of ALL Private Property Rights!. Sec. 7 of the UN SDAG21 tells of “Human Settlements” thats where you and your family will live, where you can be ‘controlled’ This is our chance to fight this, this is our chance to save the future for our children and grandchildren. This fight is massive! Do it now!! Before its too late!.
      Both MT and JB are Socialist Internationalists. Remember Copenhagen the UN Conference. The Paris Agreement is the same. Tony Abbott was standing between the UN and Australia’s Sovereignty. Don’t let his sacrifice for you go to waste.
      If MT wins the next federal Election, either way Australia will have a Socialist/Communist Government. We have nothing to lose., and everything to gain. If the NATS don’t back MT, there will have to be a General Election a DD.
      Warren Truss Canberra Office 02 6277 7680
      SHARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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      • #
        Leo Morgan

        I see I’m behind the times, and Pat in comment 32 has more up to date information.
        Sadly, I’m not convinced that Turnbull will not betray us in Paris.

        50

    • #
      Leo Morgan

      I have another comment currently awaiting moderation. I posted another person’s Facebook comment. The essence of it was that we should contact the Nationals and encourage them to not ally with Turnbull. It gave the number of the leader’s office 02 6277 7680. Warren Truss. I endorse the idea of contacting each of the National MP’s and addressing our concerns to them.

      Separately, I enclose a link to a prescient speech from Lord Monkton, where last year he warned that Tony was under attack:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG0WcjGHkEw
      I wish I’d seen it earlier.

      20

  • #
    Matt Thompson

    I am absolutely in disbelief that my friend Dennis Jensen voted for Turnbull/Bishop. I simply can’t believe it. December 11 and the signing over the last piece of Australian Sovereignty to the UN looms.

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    • #

      Yes. Agreed. It did not make sense to me either. Unexpected.

      But he was one of the ones speaking out for Turnbull in February at the spill attempt back then. (The ABC were quick to interview him about dissatisfaction with Abbott, but they didn’t seem in to rush to get his opinion on the climate issue. )

      I think a lot of Libs were afraid of losing their seats, which is a shame, because polls are notoriously fickle these days (look at the UK). Voters register a protest at the phone poll, but it is hard to believe that Shorten would really pull off a victory in the real one. So much of Australian politics is merely media beat ups and a public not really paying attention…

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        AndyG55

        “I think a lot of Libs were afraid of losing their seats,”

        I can’t see how alienating the Liberal voter base helps shore up those seats!.

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        • #
          AndyG55

          Although I guess if it picks up all the swinging voters who were brain-washed into being Abbott haters by the ABC/MSM it could make quite a difference.

          Labor has no-one to offer up as an alternative PM, that is for sure

          Enough to counteract the loss of old-liberal votes? … time will tell.

          50

        • #
          James Bradley

          Andy,

          I doubt it.

          Turnbull has the initial 70% support base as Liberal Leader from Labor/Green voters who will just vote for Labor or the Greens.

          Their support is only in the hope that Australia will now proudly represent their climate ideology in Paris, and I can’t imagine Tunbull would knock back the opportunity to promote himself on the world stage with Obama and the pope.

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          OriginalSteve

          Indeed, and as I have said numerous times – there is no difference between “labor” and “liberal” – all are under the control of the socialist globalists – this is why the same agenda keeps moving forward no matter who is in power.

          Ever wondered who makes the decision of which candidates get put forward so you can “vote” for the globalist “labor” or globalist “liberals”?

          Sometimes, for a lot of people who advocate independednt thought, I am surprised why so few dont see the scam in australias political system for whta it is – a one party system with sophisticated window dressing.

          The best slaves are the ones who dont realise they are slaves…..

          10

      • #
        Bob Malloy

        Jo you say,

        Voters register a protest at the phone poll, but it is hard to believe that Shorten would really pull off a victory in the real one. So much of Australian politics is merely media beat ups and a public not really paying attention…

        While no lover of Labor, I am blue collar from the top of my head down to my bootlaces. This morning I received the following from Unions NSW.

        Dear Bob,
        Last night Australians celebrated as Tony Abbott’s Prime Ministership came to an abrupt end, just take a look at the damage he’s done to Australia.

        However this morning elation turned to trepidation as we woke up with more of the same, Malcolm Turnbull now in the drivers seat.

        In his first speech, Turnbull said he would lead a “thoroughly Liberal government” committed to his core values of “freedom, the individual and the market”.

        While this all sounds great, as most slogans do, this is nothing more than more of the same, from a party which is hellbent on governing for the big end of town.

        This shows that Turnbull is more of the same, from a party that is hell bent on governing for the big end of town.

        We’re not fluent in Liberal-ese, but here is a rough translation of what Malcolm means by a “thoroughly Liberal Government”.

        Freedom: The freedom for big business to exploit working people for outrageous profit. The freedom to send jobs overseas. Freedom, to a Liberal, means the protection of privilege.

        The individual: Individual bargaining between a powerful boss and a worker governed by unfair work laws. The celebration of individual profit without fair tax contributions. The triumph of the individual over the community.

        The market: Profits come first, people come second.

        Liberal Party values speak to a system of winners and losers, of exploitation and isolation. Our values seek to build a community that respects everyone’s contribution, and seeks to Build a Better Future.

        Bob, we think you share our values. We know you want to Build a Better Future, So maintain your rage.

        We still have a Liberal Government to defeat.

        Sign up to defeat them here.

        Who is running similar programs on behalf of the Government, no one I hear you say. Well if someone doesn’t start running campaigns exposing the bluster and half truths promoted by big unions soon, Labor can easily win the next election with or with out Shorten as their leader. Note how Unions refer to Liberal values of winners and losers! a more honest assessment would refer to those that contribute and those that take, to misquote JFK, ask not what I can give to my country, ask what my country can give to me, No checks, No balances, just give and give now.
        I think most if not all of you regulars know Turnbull is all front and no substance. Twelve months is a long time to prevent the general populace once again waking up to his shallow persona not to mention his self interest in doing what’s best for Malcolm, Godwin Grech anyone?

        110

        • #
          KinkyKeith

          Bob

          Here in Newcastle we have recently seen the grasping ingratitude of the Liberal State Government after we voted in Tim Owen at the last election.

          The first thing they did on taking office was top annex the old rail corridor, promised for light rail or trams ( profit unknown but large), and the alter height limits on a parcel of buildings to instantly create an extra $10 million or more of profit.

          In exchange we get a poorly implemented tram system running down the main road in town starting 2 miles East of where is should start in Woodville Junction.

          We tried and got scammed.

          Tim Owen is now a wreck after the ridiculous ICAC but since he really didn’t stand up for us I guess there is no one going to shed too many tears.

          GREEDY! is the best word to describe all Australian politicians.

          I’ve been a bit down this week, the Rise of Turnbull was the last straw.

          Congratulations and thanks to the many who have written here and put light on the background of this whole mess.

          Understanding it some consolation.

          KK

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      • #
        Turtle of WA

        Too true. If I were polled now, many hardcore Libs would say they were voting for Shorten out of protest. They would never do it though. Big Brother politics. (I mean the show, not the personal face of one-party totalitarian rule featuring in George Orwell’s 1984).

        I remember an old Dr Who episode where the people were kept helpless by this sort of live-to-air pretend direct democracy.

        40

      • #
        Dennis

        MT is a smooth talker, those who know him would say that he is a well presented person to meet, others would say take care, smile Crocodile.

        60

    • #

      Jensen was simply being honest. He might agree with TA’s ideology but he could see that he was ineffective at producing useful policy with direction. He wasn’t the only right winger to think this.

      66

      • #
        el gordo

        After Abbott’s near death experience earlier this year I couldn’t help notice Dennis Jensen walking around with a self contented grin on his face.

        At the time I assumed he had been offered the vacant science portfolio at the next reshuffle, but in light of what has transpired since then it looks like the Turnbull Push may have offered him the seat for his support.

        The odds of him getting on the front bench must be at least sixty to one against, but in this turbulent political landscape anything can happen.

        50

      • #
        Glen Michel

        Agree .Morrison too. Pyne as defence?! As Bismarck said in 1880.Two great uncertainties:what makes a sausage- and politics.

        20

  • #
    ScotsmaninUtah

    “From the ashes …”

    “Turnbull will poll well in the honeymoon, but many in the heart and soul of the Liberal Party feel betrayed. The most active and passionate supporters are angry beyond words —calling for a split or a new party”

    This might be the birth of a real “conservative” party in Australia … :D

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  • #
    ivan

    Please bear with me, I have a few comments that I have made in other places that I would like to post here.

    This back stabbing is a normal communist tactic and something I did not expect to see in a democratic country.

    I don’t know who Shorten is but I do know that losing Abbott is the worst thing that has happened to Australia for some time. (this was in reply to a newsgroup post)

    It would appear that a lot of people have drunk the koolaid provided by the green left and certain press barons and the ABC, a very left leaning organisation.

    It is not surprising that the back stabbing has taken place before the UN climate party that will be held in Paris at the end of the year. Abbott was against the spending of billions to mitigate against climate change doom when said climate change doom has not been proven. Turnbull on the other hand will willingly hand over those billions to the UN without question – not a good thing for the country and its tax payers.

    The people selected Abbott as PM therefore, in a democracy, it is only the people that can remove him, not some back stabbing closet marxist who is buoyed up by the communist/labour press and institutions.

    I was living in Australia in 1975 at the time of the Goff Whitlam crisis, is Australia returning to that?

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  • #
    John F. Hultquist

    2 ideas below, A & B

    A:
    While it seems odd to change “leaders of a country” versus “leaders of a party” by the vote of a few people rather than via a popular election, such things are not always what they seem. Case in point the USofA:
    In the US, the election of president is somewhat confusing, little understood, and is still a work in progress. See:
    http://www.learnnc.org/lp/media/lessons/davidwalbert7232004-02/electoralcollege.html

    Go to the following heading:
    II. Why not a popular vote? (an historial perspective)

    B:
    Jo wrote: “ It’s as if a whole giant currency might wink into existence.

    Governments (& the UN) always want more money and search for the means to obtain it. Taxes, fees, and speeding tickets come to mind. One of my favorites is the so called “Window Tax” enacted in England and also some places in the US; Kansas City, I think.
    Nice image of the unintended consequences, here:
    http://eviewmagazine.com/february12/curiosity.html

    The interesting thing about “winking into existence” a carbon (sic) scheme is that it is like inflation. In the USA, the unofficial inflation rate is said to be 2%. (Congress decreed it should be zero.) Thus, in about 35 years the money under your mattress will have lost half its value. People in their 70s realize what happens but hardly any young folks know it. This carbon thing will be like that.
    It is not intended to change Earth’s temperature so there is no need to try to be specific about what won’t happen.

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    Ruairi

    All those politicians who lead,
    Through belief in the climate-change creed,
    Using ‘carbon’ emissions,
    To advance their positions,
    May be smart,but deluded indeed.

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    pattoh

    Have a squint at the graphic in this link & join the dots.

    Looks like a Threadneedle St/Wall St. Coup to me!

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-17/todays-most-stunning-statistic

    Poor fellow what used to be my country………

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    ScotsmaninUtah

    “The coup ”
    As an outsider , looking at the change of leadership in the Australian Government , some not so dramatic reasons for what happened seem to be evident….

    1) A leaked list of ministers Abbott wanted to sack ! seems to have angered many in the cabinet ?
    (Probably about to get rid of closet Climate Alarmists” masquerading as Conservatives)
    2) Abbott’s personal style had been a source of discontent inside the party ?

    and…..
    Despite a previous post by someone named Bilb who suggested it was Abbot’s failures, and him being evil beyond description, but most importantly about his lack of support (actually total rejection) for a Climate Warming agenda… (In the eyes of CAGWers is everything going on around the world to do with, or related to Global Warming … ?)

    I believe that there is a much simpler and old fashioned reason behind Turnbull’s actions.

    He really really wanted to be prime Minister… and would have probably sold his mother to get it :o

    I though Abbot did a very reasonable Job .. poor Tony :(

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    • #
      BilB

      SCIU,

      What the? leaked lists?? Aren’t you forgetting that the Libs wanted to dispose of Abbott 6 months ago, but he begged his way back with all of the usual “only I can win the next election and I can turn this around, fantasy crap” that Abbott is famous for. In the end he had to resort to the lame “you can’t chuck out a first term Prime Minister” appeal. Anyone seeing the parliament floor during question time over the last months would realise that something was up. Gone was that braying hyena demeanour typical of the Abbott front bench, these Libs looked almost serious as if they actually knew what they were doing, which, as it turned out, the did. All it took was for Abbott to leave the country for a few days, and Whammo.

      You thought Abbott did a very good Job?? Poor you.

      [I'm publishing this only as a show case of the hysteria and emotional language about Abbott. "Frothing" - Jo]

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      • #
        AndyG55

        “that Abbott is famous for”

        Abbott is famous for

        1. THRASHING the ALP at the last election.

        2. RE-ESTABLISHING our country’s borders.

        and most importantly, GETTING RID OF the useless Carbon and Mining taxes.

        No wonder the bilge-rat hates him to a frenzy !

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          Yonniestone

          The specimen above just gave good insight into the mindset of a rabid leftie, the only leaders they admire are ones that adhere strictly to party scripts and dogmas that above all serve to strengthen their power and will over the public good or bad.
          Any leader that exhibits any desire to improve a country though democracy or good capitalist policy is regarded as the enemy as this immediately undermines their true desire for whatever form of left wing rule is currently in vogue.
          This is what people MUST know and understand, not just here but worldwide that a choice MUST be made as the left idealists are completely intolerant as Popper explained so well.

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    • #
      PeterS

      Actually, it’s a mixture of reasons, some as you listed. Other reasons include; predominantly left-wing dominated media who hate leaders like Abbott because he is too timid and humble for their viral media cycle as well as not being a leftists. Turnbull is a leftist (before joining the Liberal Party he tried to join the ALP at first but was rejected according to some). The media also prefer someone who creates a lot of (useless or not) noise so they can peddle their media crap to the masses on a 24-hour cycle. That brings me to what I believe what’s the main issue – the public. I truly believe it’s not the back-stabbing and ruthless Turbmull associated political assassins that’s the problem. It’s the people who are supposed to use their brains to think and realize that we just lost a good man who goes out of his way to help others, including our indigenous people. The polls indicated Abbott was not popular enough. This is despite an opposition leader, such as Shorten, who is one of several being investigated for alleged corruption with the unions. Instead of polls favouring Shorten, the polls should have been showing close to single digit support for him. IMHO that is proof that the public is at fault. If we had polls that showed strong support for Abbott (say 70/30), we would not be in the mess we are in right now. I don’t agree with this poll driven mania, which has now ushered into out political arena a revolving door style of leadership, not unlike many third-world nations. However, we can’t ignore them, and in fact can be useful as a litmus test of public opinion. The public did not like Abbott and according to recent polls, Turnbull is far more popular. We now have to move on and hope Turnbull does a good enough job to keep Labor and the Greens taking over next year to avoid this country being destroyed. I will never forgive Turnbull for what he did, including the white-anting of what probably was one of the best PMs we ever had given the difficult circumstances he was operating under for the past 2 years. For the sake of this country I hope Turnbull does good otherwise we face a catastrophic future.

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    pat

    ***thank the Nationals for getting a WRITTEN pledge from Turnbull re “Climate Change” policies:

    16 Sept: Bolt Blog: Turnbull spends $2 billion to become Prime Minister
    Simon Benson adds:
    Critical to the Nationals’ endorsement of Mr Turnbull as PM was a pledge written into the agreement that he would not change existing policy on climate change or same-sex marriage…
    Herald Sun: “NEW Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull secured Government by signing a secret deal with the Nationals worth at least $2 billion.
    Mr Turnbull cut the deal with Nationals leader Warren Truss Tuesday morning before he went to Government House to be sworn in as the 29th Prime Minister of Australia, replacing the vanquished Tony Abbott.”…
    This is why Abbott delayed resigning for long yesterday, which his usual Fairfax critics spitefully claimed was “unnecessarily churlish”, as always presuming the worst of Abbott before troubling to establish the truth. In fact, without the Nationals on board, Turnbull did not have the numbers on the floor of the House of Representatives to be Prime Minister. Abbott could not hand over to him without that assurance…
    Simon Benson adds:
    ***”Critical to the Nationals’ endorsement of Mr Turnbull as PM was a pledge written into the agreement that he would not change existing policy on climate change or same-sex marriage.”…
    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/turnbull_spends_2_billion_to_become_prime_minister/

    16 Sept: Daily Telegraph: Miranda Devine: A coup for the chattering classes
    This was a coup by the chattering classes…
    You could see it every week on the ABC’s Q&A, the smug TV program that best captures their privileged leftist views. And on Monday night, when news of Abbott’s decapitation was announced, the audience erupted with rapturous applause…
    On the totemic issues that bookmarked his leadership of the Liberal Party — on climate change and same sex marriage — he was starkly at odds with them…
    For the leftists who dominate the media, academia, legal circles, who inhabit the Canberra bubble, and the stylish inner circle of Wentworth, Turnbull was more to their taste. He subscribes to all the symbolic “progressive” causes dear to their hearts: climate alarmism, “marriage equality”, a republic…
    By contrast, Tony Abbott was self effacing to the end. Watching his final speech as Prime Minister yesterday afternoon in the blustery courtyard outside his office, admirers could only lament what might have been…
    It was a searing speech, but ultimately gracious.
    ***For those listening in the courtyard, however, it was almost impossible to hear, thanks to a media helicopter hovering noisily overhead. It was a fitting metaphor for a Prime Minister whose fine words and worthy achievements were so often ignored and derided by the chatterati. History will be kinder.
    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/rendezview/a-coup-for-the-chattering-classes/story-fnpug1jf-1227529041252

    ***wonder whose chopper it was.

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    • #
      ianl8888

      Yes, the Nats extracted a written agreement from Turnbull that he wouldn’t change some critical policies before the next election

      BUT: what happens if his vanity ptompts him to break this agreement (Paris looms) ? He says: “Despite my written agreement, I’m changing such and such. If you don’t like it, then leave the Coalition and break the Govt”. Would the Nats really do it ?

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    Sean McHugh

    I’d like to see a ditch Turnbull and Bishop rally in each major city. I would definitely attend.

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    Ross

    An outsider’s view and yes maybe I’m being too optimistic.

    Firstly from what I could see I thought Tony Abbott was doing a good job with one hand tied behind his back ( the effect of the Senate stonewalling initiatives).

    Turnbull –from what I have read about him, everything is for Turnbull ( not the party or Aussie). So now he has got the crown of PM he is not going to lose it with doing something stupid at Paris. In fact I would not be surprised if he changed his mind on AGW –self preservation as PM is a big motivator. I think he will at least keep it well down the list of priorities.
    He has nailed his reputation to the mast on the economy and “fixing” it. How can he stimulate demand for exports if China is slowing ? He cannot borrow and spend on internal economic things without letting debt blow out. In short he has a lot more to think about than climate issues.
    But when the Greens, NGOs and MSM work this out Mr Turnbull will really have his hands full.

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    Graham Richards

    If Tony Abbott can be removed so too will Turnbull be removed. Trying any stunts like returning to carbon trading or taxes will certainly see him dumped with eye watering speed.

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    • #
      PeterS

      I hope you are right. The only way he would be dumped if he wound back what Abbott so successfully done would be if the constituents of the various electorates that are held by the Liberals suddenly voiced their opinions so strongly that people everywhere would start wondering if a major earthquake hit the whole of Australia. I do hope there is still some useful brain matter left in people’s heads despite the destructive forces of the media and union campaigns that have been forced onto all of us over the past couple of years. Some of the journalists should be in jail for the deliberate lies they have been peddling. The damage has been done as there are too many people who are too gullible and/or stupid to think for themselves, and instead rely on the lies to believe what’s true.

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  • #
    Another Ian

    Seems like someone is finding quickly that what’s round comes round.

    Ray Hadley seems to have detail on last night’s cabinet meeting and various other things.

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    pat

    John Alexander just phoned Ray Hadley and read a statement saying he would not divulge who he voted for, so Hadley thought that suggested he voted for Turnbull. Alexander disagreed. Hadley has temporarily taken him off his list.

    14 Sept: UK Independent: Tom Bawden: Lord Ridley: Prominent climate change sceptic backs calls to fast-track new green technology
    One of Britain’s best known climate sceptics, Lord Ridley, has teamed up with a prominent environment campaigner to force fossil fuel companies to fast-track a new technology to capture CO2 emissions from the air and pump them underground.
    In a highly unusual show of unity between opposing sides of the climate-change debate, Lord Ridley and Baroness Worthington are pushing for a new law demanding that oil, gas and coal producers greatly increase their efforts to develop effective carbon capture and storage (CCS) technology, after making little progress over the past decade…
    Arguing that rising volumes of atmospheric carbon dioxide have pushed up the volume of plants and crops, he said: “Fossil fuels do not have anything to be ashamed of, and have much to be proud of. If CCS is the price we have to pay to keep using them, let us use it.”
    Successive governments have pushed CCS technology but it is still so expensive that companies have been loath to build the infrastructure…
    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/lord-ridley-prominent-climate-change-sceptic-backs-calls-to-fasttrack-new-green-technology-10500730.html

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    • #
      tom0mason

      Typical Independent big headline nonsense –
      Call Lord Ridley a prominent ‘sceptic’ when he’s actually (as the piece says later) a luke-warmer.
      Another moneyed aristocrat filled with enviro-guilt and a pale green center.

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    • #
      diogenese2

      Pat, the amendment (34a) was sponsored by Lord Oxburg , who “exonerated”, that is -applied the whitewash to UEA over their actions revealed by the leak of their e-mails. After Lord Ridleys support and a long intervention from Baroness Worthington,author of the imbecilic Climate Change Act, the noble lord smelt a rat and promptly withdrew his amendment. Another 4 hours of life down the drain for hose with little left- you would think they would spend their dotage more productively like me, reading this blog and watching the Jeremy Kyle show.

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  • #
    pat

    14 Sept: UK Express: Lana Clements: Energy bills to leap by up to £300 this week as weather turns colder
    As the colder weather starts to set-in, British Gas, Scottish Power and First Utility customers on select fixed-rate tariffs will see their deals come to an end, according to a report…
    Overall, affected households can expect a rice hike of £150, found the comparison site.
    ***If predictions of the coldest winter in 50 years prove correct, and energy usage is higher than previous years, homes could find the bill hike proves even more of a sting…
    http://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/605034/British-Gas-Scottish-Power-energy-bills-hike-winter-weather-turns-colder

    15 Sept: Guardian: Terry Macalister: Ed Davey to advise law firm on renewable energy projects
    Former energy secretary to work for Herbert Smith, but not advise on their Hinkley Point or Swansea Bay work
    Davey has been given clearance by the Cabinet Office to provide consultancy to Herbert Smith, a law firm that provides advice on the two power projects and where his brother is also employed…
    The Liberal Democrat minister, who lost his parliamentary seat in the spring general election, says he will only help Herbert Smith on renewable power projects, but not the Swansea Bay tidal project or Hinkley Point. Herbert Smith has a major energy practice.
    The contract with Davey is in the first place a short-term one and has been arranged alongside a separate consultancy deal with Macquarie Bank.
    ***The latter arrangement will also be relatively brief and concentrate on giving advice on UK rooftop solar projects where the Australia-based bank is a significant lender…
    There has been much criticism in the past about a perceived “revolving door” between lucrative business contracts and former members of parliament.
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/15/ed-davey-to-advise-law-firm-herbert-smith-on-renewable-energy-projects

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    pat

    14 Sept: Reuters: German energy firms need to set aside more money for nuclear exit – Spiegel Online
    German energy companies are short of as much as 30 billion euros ($34 billion) of the money they need to set aside to build a safe disposal site for nuclear waste as part of the country’s exit from nuclear power, Spiegel Online reported on Monday…
    Spiegel did not cite a specific source.
    According to the auditors, the 39 billion euros already set aside by the energy companies for the dismantling nuclear plants are sufficient, Spiegel reported. But they are short of funds for the final disposal of nuclear waste…
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/14/us-germany-nuclear-utilities-idUSKCN0RE21P20150914

    described on Climatecrocks as “Met Office Chief Scientist Dame Julia Slingo interviewed here by the BBC’s John Humphrys, long known as a bit of a crank on climate matters. Slingo calmly brushes his incredulity aside, to explain what those paying attention already know – the Globe is warm, and getting warmer, fast.”

    4mins48secs: Youtube: Met Office Chief Scientist (Julia Slingo) Explains New Rise in Global Temperatures
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTwupERTIY4

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    pat

    a caller to Ray Hadley just said he has had calls from ReachTEL automated polling last nite and some weeks ago.

    on the first occasion, when he tried to vote for Tony Abbott, he was repeatedly put back to the list of choices, & he therefore couldn’t register his vote.

    last nite he was asked which party he would vote for if an election was called now. he tried to vote for choice #6 “any other party”, but again he was taken back to the list of choices, so couldn’t register his vote.

    following would be the first poll he mentioned, done on the back of the Bronwyn Bishop “Choppergate” affair:

    Fairfax – National Poll – 6 August 2015
    Question 2: Who of the following do you think would make the better Prime Minister?
    Tony Abbott 41.5%
    Bill Shorten 58.5%
    Question 3: Who of the following do you think would make the better leader of the Liberal National Coalition?
    Tony Abbott 18.9%
    Malcolm Turnbull 45.4%
    Scott Morrion 11.4%
    Julie Bishop 24.4%
    Question 5:Has the controversy surrounding Bronwyn Bishop’s expenses spending made you more or less likely to support Tony Abbott?
    More likely 14.6%
    Less likely 48.0%
    Support unchanged 37.4%
    This survey was conducted using an automated telephone based survey system among 2,543 voters.
    https://www.reachtel.com.au/blog/fairfax-media-national-poll-6august2015

    9 Aug: AFR: Laura Tingle: A ReachTEL poll conducted for Fairfax Media ahead of Parliament’s return on Monday shows almost half of voters are less likely to support Mr Abbott following the expenses scandal, and that Mr Shorten leads him 58.5 to 41.5 as preferred prime minister.

    4 Sept: Age: Adam Gartrell: In a recent ReachTEL poll, Turnbull was favoured to lead the Liberals by 45.4 per cent of voters. Bishop came second with 24.4 per cent and Abbott third with 18.9 per cent.

    presumably we’ll see the pro-Malcolm new poll results later today or tomorrow. it would seem they don’t want to register voters disgusted with the major parties.

    the Roy Morgan poll was apparently not automated, but I still found the following extremely puzzling:

    note category “Other/Neither/Can’t say” for all previous polls ranged from 24% to a low of 17%, BUT WAS ONLY 6% FOR THE LATEST POLL (WHEN I WOULD HAVE EXPECTED A FAR HIGHER FIGURE THAN USUAL)
    http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/6451-australia-better-pm-turnbull-shorten-september-15-2015-201509150557

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    • #
      PeterS

      They should ask the question “Who of the following do you think would make the better leader of the ALP?”
      1) Shorten
      2) Turnbull

      I would choose Turnbull.

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      • #
        pat

        PeterS -

        I’ve only just realised the Morgan poll was a snap SMS poll. from the link I posted:

        “This special Snap SMS Morgan Poll was conducted today, September 15, 2015, with an Australia-wide cross section of 1,204 electors”

        would imagine that would skew the results considerably.

        much is being made of Canning Liberal vote skyrocketing because of Turnbull, but I posted on jo’s previous thread something I saw on Bolt’s blog from memory:

        -saw this elsewhere from The Australian’s Dennis Shanahan today:
        “Liberal Party polling [in Canning] was much better than the published polls and was suggesting a Liberal lead of 54 per cent to 46 per cent.”-

        apparently 7News has a new ReachTEL poll tonite, but who on earth is this little Brisbane company who don’t bother to divulge anything about themselves on the website & have very little presence online in general.

        polls! as toxic as the MSM.

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  • #
    Sean McHugh

    I wrote to my local member, Ann Sudmalis, received a reply and wrote the following back:

    Hi Ann,

    Thank you for replying. I do understand where you are coming from but this decision’ and its ramifications extend well beyond internal matters and the Party Room. Anyway, I was able to find the answer, a favourable one.

    I would like to express my anger at my vote being hijacked to install, as PM, someone for whom I would never vote, someone with the opposite political ideologies to my own and someone whose systematic white-anting against the Coalition has earned him boiling contempt from me and many others.

    Ann, I appreciate your dedication to Gilmore. Local issues are certainly important but when I’m voting in an federal election, I consider Australia and its future direction to be at least as important and impacting. I am extremely disappointed with the Coalition and am now in voter limbo.

    Thank you for supporting the elected PM.

    Best regards,

    Sean

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    Turtle of WA

    Andy Warhol famously said that in the future everyone will be famous for 15 minutes. He’s probably already right about that. In fact, the big challenge these days is to not be famous for 15 minutes.

    I’ve got a new prediction.

    In the future, everyone will be Prime Minister of Australia for 15 minutes.

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    • #
      Angry

      On a serious note these machinations have to stop !

      Australia is the laughing stock of the world over this.

      More like a banana republic !!

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    el gordo

    Hockey is a leading light in the Republican Movement (as is Turnbull) so a shift to Communications would be in order.

    For a start he could set about deconstructing the ABC in a more forceful manner than his predecessor.

    40

  • #
    Mattb

    “many in the heart and soul of the Liberal Party feel betrayed.”

    That depends where you think the heart and soul of the Liberal Party is. If people want a conservative party they should break away and form one.

    52

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    handjive

    Watching Question Time, and the Twistcow argue for LNP climate action, when you know he is lying …

    What were there LNP thinking?

    Oh … they weren’t thinking.

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    • #
      Mattb

      The LNP already has a plan for climate action. Direct Action. Even the mad monk liked that.

      410

      • #
        handjive

        Howdy Mattb.

        Direct Action is what we’re talkin’bout. If Tony “climate change is crap” Abbott was a liar …

        This is the same man who in 2009 intimated the main pillar of the Coalition climate plan – the Direct Action scheme, then in its infancy – was “bullshit”.

        40

        • #
          llew Jones

          Turbull didn’t seem to think so today in QT. He (at last?) has read or been told about photoynthesis and now intelligently likes what trees, as in Direct Action, do to some of that extra CO2 up there.

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      llew Jones

      Not now sure about Turnbull’s commitment to ACC. Today in QT in answer to Shorten’s request for Turnbull to embrace Shorten’s 50% renewable energy target by 2030 Turnbull completely demolished Shorten on an uncosted scheme and amongst other questions to Shorten wanted to know if he had looked at viable options such as clean coal produced power and the cost to consumers of Shorten’s plan.

      In parts he sounded for all the world like an accomplished skeptic. Perhaps he is willing to embrace the conservative wing of the Libs on this issue. Who knows he may just be a bit smarter than most lawyer’s and has done a bit of reading himself instead of relying, as lawyers do on “expert opinion”,aka amongst that fraternity as the consensus of expert climate scientists.

      If he embraces Abbott’s ACC skepticism as Party policy he probably will be a more powerful voice for that position than Abbott.

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      • #
        handjive

        I hear you llew, but, here is how the Twistcow will roll as we lead up to the next election, when he will take of his ‘Saruman coat of many colours” to reveal his new carbon(sic) plans.

        Former Treasury boss Martin Parkinson in the mix as Malcolm Turnbull searches for a new chief of staff

        “Dr Parkinson is a 30-year veteran of the public service who worked primarily in the Treasury but also served as the first head of the climate change department for the Rudd government and played a critical role in the design of the carbon price.”

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        • #
          handjive

          ABC:
          Australian farmers involved in the carbon offsets industry hope a Federal Government led by Malcolm Turnbull may mean a trading system is one step closer.

          Mr Turnbull’s support of the emissions trading scheme is clear and was even was a factor in his demise in the Liberal party leadership battle in 2009.

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          • #
            handjive

            ABC:
            Renewable energy industry hopeful of policy change under Turnbull Government

            The renewable energy industry is celebrating the ascension of Malcolm Turnbull as Prime Minister on hopes that he may lead the Coalition towards policies more supportive of the sector.

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            • #
              llew Jones

              That may all be true about Turnbull’s past (hopefully not his present and future) inclinations however though we do not know for sure suggestions have been made that he got some critical Party votes on a “promise” to keep the existing climate policies. Also he was willing to bribe the Coalition partner to the tune of up to $4 billion for their pet projects as well as a promise to not introduce a carbon tax to get its support.

              The question I guess is how does Turnbull rate being Prime Minister against the risk of alienating his own Party and the Nationals by supporting the IPCC ACC scam. The feeling generally is that PM is the thing he most desperately wanted. If he moves in the IPCC direction Abbott, who intends to stay in parliament, is only a phone call away.

              It will be interesting to see what stand he takes and why he takes it about say the massive Carmichael coal mine project and other coal mine projects. I used to think Hunt was a real IPCC dog until he started giving environmental approval to many mining projects including coal. My suggestion is that that will be the measure on which to judge Turnbull.

              (Like other lifetime Lib voters I hate his guts for what he did to Abbott but if he does change his views on ACC he could be a devastating ACC skeptic if his demolition of Shorten in Question Time today is any indication).

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    hunter

    We are witnessing a new religious movement taking over the world. A secular faux science religion that believes CO2 is an evil chemical that can be regulated resulting in better weather.

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    hunter

    By the way, Australia: I believe you have had an Obama coup.

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    Another Ian

    A bluntly put conclusion to a lesson for Malcolm

    “So would you be kind enough to call your friends in the Labor Party and at GetUp, the ABC, Fairfax, The Guardian, Green Weekly and all your sexually confused associates in the judiciary residing on the north shore and explain to them that your thesis on global warming and increased sea levels is fundamentally flawed (or a load of bullshit)?

    No? I didn’t think so.”

    More at

    http://pickeringpost.com/story/under-the-ice-with-malcolm/5377

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    Another Ian

    And Oh Dear.

    A reminder to Malcolm that the internet doesn’t forget


    Turnbull’s Kevin Rudd valedictory – “scale of your betrayal…most shocking thing any of us has seen, discarding a PM who won election”

    More at

    http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2015/09/turnbulls-kevin-rudd-valedictory-scale-of-your-betrayalmost-shocking-thing-any-of-us-has-seen-discar.html

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      Dennis

      I noted that Ian, the word hypocrite came to mind immediately.

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        Another Ian

        Dennis

        The only disagreement I have is that you didn’t spell it in capital letters.

        We might also argue as to what terminology we could agree on in the area that Jo would have to censor

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    pat

    don’t think I remembered to post this bit of fun:

    15 Sept: BBC: Nick Bryant: Australia: Coup capital of the democratic world
    Were a movie to be made of Australian politics over the past decade it would have to be X-rated, and, as I have said before, be directed by Quentin Tarantino…
    From a ridiculously long list, I’ve been asked to pick out some of the most memorable coups…
    2015 Turnbull ousts Abbott
    A republican, environmentalist and social moderate, Malcolm Turnbull has always been viewed with great suspicion by right-wingers in the Liberal Party…
    Given how long he has actively sought the prime ministership, his elevation feels almost preordained.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-34249214

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    Dennis

    Tony Abott’s departure from leadership short speech was impressive, I noted that he did not say goodbye, he was not surrounded by family members, he was not vindictive and promised that he would not be a spoiler, he would not brief the media from the back bench. He displayed maturity and determination. He is known for playing the long game.

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    • #
      Another Ian

      Dennis

      As leader of the opposition he (as I recall) was credited with the scalps of 3 prime ministers.

      There is the saying “revenge is a dish best served cold”.

      And one of the things I’ve learnt in life is that the person who issues threats is probably not so much of a problem.

      But you’d better be bloody careful of someone that had grounds to do so and didn’t – yet.

      Not that I even suspect that Tony Abbot will be on an immediate crusade.

      But if this shit for brains operation (IMO) plays out like it might well then there is the chance of adding a Liberal scalp to the bag.

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      Matty

      Of course. He is a Gentleman. Not like the snake he gave a Cabinet post to after defeating him for the leadership.

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    pat

    from ANU? not surprised:

    16 Sept: Michael Smith News: Nutty academic says Tony Abbott similar to Islamic State
    …and, of course it was on OUR ABC …
    This is Dr Norman Abjorensen who is a an ABC favourite from ANU – apparently an expert on public policy …. and a former national editor of the Sydney Morning Herald.
    “The least distinguished Prime Minister Australia has ever had … when you scratch the surface with Tony Abbott you find a constant war with modernity … in some ways a characteristic he shares with Islamic State”.
    He was speaking to Andrew West on Radio National link to full interview here if you can gut it…
    UPDATE…READ THE REST
    http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2015/09/nutty-academic-says-tony-abbott-similar-to-islamic-state-.html

    even more toxic?

    15 Sept: New Matilda: Chris Graham: Tony Abbott And Ted Bundy: Only One Of Them Accepted Responsibility And Showed Remorse
    https://newmatilda.com//2015/09/15/tony-abbott-and-ted-bundy-only-one-them-accepted-responsibility-and-showed-remorse

    from the comments:
    laurie4:
    Thanks for a great article, Chris, and for giving an ethical lead to other journos. Too many commentators are saying that Abbott was a decent or good man.
    Chrisgo -
    Hi There. can i start by saying i have no political affiliation to ANY person or party as i believe all politicians both Labor and Liberal are nothing but lying thieving scumbags, who are only interested in themselves, and their quests for wealth and power. But having said that i have never come accross a site thet promotes pure hatred like this site does.
    Michae -
    If Anything Tony Abbott should sue New Matilda for defamatory action and libel…ETC

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    [...] the Liberal’s party room. #auspol #libspillPosted by Dan Ilic on maandag 14 september 2015Op Joanne Nova en Wattsupwiththat.c0m vind je further reading over de situatie in Australië.Tags:Australië,Ben [...]

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    Another Ian

    Jo

    Jesus H. Christ!

    Try contacting Tony Abbott via here. Both lead to Liberal site

    http://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Parliamentarian?MPID=EZ5

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    Unmentionable

    Oh politics ~~~ phft!

    I preferred it when our Supreme Overlords ruled us directly and we did not have to have these tedious informed debates as they decide which of our democratic choices were made in error and re-decide them for us, with Bogans picking up the tab and serving the nation to repay our appointed Overlords for their tremendous sacrifice and service to the nation. As long as new and updated versions of indentured servitude are perpetuated, we’re good to go, Republic of Bogan. Yeah, that’s coming, Mal and Jules will bridge us to greener pastures, it’ll change everything. And I’m relieved they’ve sorted that for us, I find choices so confusing and disconcerting. Seems to be a bug, not a feature, but thank goodness they’ve got that safety-net built into Democracy. Bring on my paperless toilet lifestyle, same as oligarchical tyranny of yore, but new and improved poncing hipster … and now I need to take an experimental paperless … the future beckons! … catharsis knobs to 11 … SET! … flash goggles on … SET! …clear the area!
    ___
    Good try Tony, I can still respect you still, which is an entirely new phenomena for a former PM of Ostrailya, and please overlook my anon status, it’s not only you guys that get zapped from the Dark-Side of the Farce — all the best to you and family, well done.

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    Dennis

    Turnbull’s Kevin Rudd valedictory – “scale of your betrayal…most shocking thing any of us has seen, discarding a PM who won election”

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    macha

    I see no reason to lower CO2. Try themaths…. isolate a room 7m x 7m x 2m, ie about 100m3 for a whole year. It only takes one match ( old fashioned red head will do) to bring the CO2 in that room back up to the new levels outside that year later. It also equals 20yrs of all car emissions, globally, for 20years.
    Ha!

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    macha

    I fear turbull is snake oil salesman, and wil sell OZ down the UN loo in Paris.

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    Andrew McRae

    Let’s bring this back to the science. There isn’t any justification for “climate action” because there is insufficient evidence behind the IPCC AR4 statement of strong warming from CO2.

    The way current “consensus” attribution of warming also produced temperature predictions that overshot the actuals by a factor of nearly 2 should certainly give the alarmists PAUSE for thought. My brief analysis of the difference between consensus CO2 hypothesis and actual trends was done on Monday night during the libspill which is one reason nobody else thumbed it.

    The constant excuse is “because natural variability!” But of course if natural factors can both increase and decrease the temperature then accounting for ALL of the main natural factors becomes important in gauging sensitivity to CO2, not just some carefully cherrypicked subset of them. Chief among them is the Svensmark effect, confirmed in the lab by independent groups. A glance through the Chapter 9 of AR5 shows very few of these multi-million dollar AOGCMs implement any kind of atmospheric chemistry simulation at all. Look in the Atmospheric Chemistry column for CSIRO Mk3.6, it says simply “Not implemented”! As a taxpayer I expect these academics to do their homework before showing up to class! :)

    The ones that do model atmospheric chemistry are behind the times.
    • As one example take NASA GISS’ Model E2 which says it uses “G-PUCCINI” for the atmospheric chemistry. But checking the reference (Shindell) shows this is a simulation of ozone and methane, nothing to do with the cosmic rays implicated in the real cloud seeding experiments.
    • It’s a similar story for HadGEM2 across the pond at the MetOffice, for which publication “HCT-72″ is the guide. HadGEM2 models Ozone reduction of sulfate aerosols which then reduces “the cloud droplet number”, which is definitely on the right track and is half of the Svensmark Effect. But there is no mention of the UV flux changing over the solar cycle and affecting ozone, and neither is there any mention of solar activity or cosmic rays altering the aerosols.

    If our governments’ best and brightest climate scientists are ignoring ironclad evidence of solar activity in climate change, it is no surprise “natural variability” is offered as an excuse for the lack of present warming instead of the explanation for the historic warming.
     
    _ _ _ _ _ _
    TL;DR : Svensmark has been snubbed by climate modellers.

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    TedM

    I think that the final speech of the PM (the one we voted in) summed up the period of his administration accurately. The many and yet unsung achievements, the unrelenting opposition from the hate driven media and the treachery from within. Yet presented without bitterness or resentment, and in a most gracious manner. Just how much a better human being than his critics was clear for all to see, and I would like to think, respect.

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    pat

    for what it’s worth. Turnbull already nearly 10% down on the Morgan SMS Poll:

    ReachTEL: 7 News – National Poll – 15 September 2015
    ReachTEL conducted a survey of 3,278 residents across Australia during the evening of 15th September 2015
    Turnbull: 61.9% Shorten: 38.1% (Morgan SMS Poll it was 70 to 24)
    This survey was conducted using an automated telephone based survey system…
    https://www.reachtel.com.au/blog/7-news-national-poll-15september2015

    hilarious. Brissenden can’t even say the words “climate change” & Brandis thinks Turnbull is a “superb persuader”!

    16 Sept: ABC AM: Malcolm Turnbull a ‘superb persuader’ with the skills to communicate policy: Brandis
    GEORGE BRANDIS: Now, I think Mr Turnbull is a person who is a superb persuader.
    MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Okay, he also is a person with some different policy positions from Tony Abbott. He’s publicly expressed them in the past…
    MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: …and on a direct action policy.
    Can you really expect people to believe that?
    GEORGE BRANDIS: Well, Mr Turnbull has made it very clear that – you know, these decisions evolved over a period of years.
    We have- take the example of climate change, Michael. We have been grappling with the appropriate response to climate change for the best part of a decade now. And the Liberal Party has a settled position.
    There was, as we know, famously, a very very vigorous debate inside the Liberal Party in 2009 which actually saw Mr Turnbull toppled…
    MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Sure, exactly.
    GEORGE BRANDIS: …as the Opposition leader.
    But eventually we have settled on a position, the direct action policy, of which Greg Hunt – the great climate policy intellectual of this Parliament, I might say – has developed, and that is our position. It’s…
    MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Okay, but these were policy positions that have been out there for 18 months or so, two years since the Abbott government came to power.
    The polls went south. They didn’t shift.
    ***Presumably the public is expecting some sort of policy shift from you. And presumably the party wants some sort of shift in some areas to lift the polling.
    Otherwise, as Tony Burke says, it’s just Tony Abbott with good elocution.
    GEORGE BRANDIS: Well, I think that’s the sort of cheap and snide remark that you’d expect from someone like Tony Burke.
    The fact is that we have in the new Prime Minister, Mr Turnbull, a person who has in my opinion far and away the best mind of anybody in this Parliament by a very long measure; somebody who, as I said before, is a superb persuader, somebody who in my view will be able to explain the economic narrative in particular and bring the country with him.
    MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Okay, at times he’s had trouble persuading his own party, though.
    I mean, he was…
    GEORGE BRANDIS: Ancient history, Michael.
    MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: …he was Opposition leader for…
    GEORGE BRANDIS: Michael, ancient history.
    MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Well, is it ancient history? Has he changed entirely?
    GEORGE BRANDIS: In terms of the political dynamic within this building, what happened in 2009, six years ago, is ancient history.
    MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: You all made a judgement he wasn’t good enough to be Opposition leader…
    GEORGE BRANDIS: Ancient history.
    MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: …and you now say he’s good enough to be Prime Minister.
    GEORGE BRANDIS: Ancient history, Michael…
    http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2015/s4313218.htm

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    pat

    Fran’s “Breakfast” can’t mention “climate change” in the summary:

    16 Sept: ABC Breakfast: Labor condemns Turnbull’s new Coalition agreement: Mark Butler
    Labor has been quick to condemn Malcolm Turnbull’s new Coalition agreement, branding it a ‘sell out’.
    The Prime Minister reportedly made a number of concessions to the National Party, including shifting water back into agriculture portfolio, to get them on side.
    Shadow Environment Minister and National President of the Australian Labor Party, Mark Butler, joins Fran Kelly on RN Breakfast
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/labor-condemns-turnbulls-new-coalition-agreement/6779278

    Bolt has some detail (I’m not listening to it):

    17 Sept: Bolt’s blog: ABC accepts from Turnbull what it rejected from Abbott
    One big thing in Malcolm Turnbull’s favour is that the ABC will accept from him the policies it trashed when they came from Tony Abbott. That includes the policies Turnbull now promotes which he, too, was once against.
    Today’s example is Fran Kelly.
    Now that Turnbull is promoting Abbott’s direct action climate policy which he once attacked, Kelly says:

    “There’s a lot of positive elements about it… That can make a big difference to the impact on emissions.”

    On giving the public a vote on gay marriage after the next election – another policy Turnbull trashed, Kelly is also now positive:

    “I think there’s a lot of support now for a people’s vote on the plebiscite.”

    Not the principle but the tribe.
    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/abc_accepts_from_turnbull_what_it_rejected_from_abbott/

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    pat

    16 Sept: Scientific American: Obama Seeks Psychological Help with Climate Change
    The social sciences could help combat global warming
    By Evan Lehmann and ClimateWire
    President Obama is seeking psychological advice about climate change.
    Yesterday, he issued an executive order instructing federal agencies to use behavioral science when developing programs to address rising temperatures and other policies. That’s the stuff of sociologists, psychologists and behavioral economists.
    The administration suggests that behavioral cues, like comparing your energy use with a neighbor, can be used to increase participation in energy efficiency and other federal goals. The White House created a group last year to experiment with strategies to change behavior. It’s called the Social and Behavioral Sciences Team, and it’s testing methods that might get people to act differently…
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/obama-seeks-psychological-help-with-climate-change/

    such social engineering surely contradicts Obama’s anti-PC campus talk this week!

    15 Sept: Vanity Fair: Tina Nguyen: Obama: PC Culture on Campus leads to “Coddled” students
    “I guess that might work in the Soviet Union, but it doesn’t work here.”…
    President Barack Obama on Monday waded into the debate on political correctness saturating American colleges, forcefully rejecting the idea of tailoring curriculum or cutting funding based on the sensitivities of students…
    The culture of political correctness itself has generated a massive reaction, from liberal journalists, comedians, and researchers…
    Obama’s comments came after he was asked a question about whether the government should cut funding to schools with political biases—a notion Obama quickly rejected:
    ***”The way to do that is to create a space where a lot of ideas are presented and collide, and people are having arguments, and people are testing each other’s theories, and over time, people learn from each other,” Obama said.
    ”The idea that you’d have somebody in government making a decision about what you should think ahead of time or what you should be taught, and if it’s not the right thought or idea or perspective or philosophy, that that person would be—that they wouldn’t get funding runs contrary to everything we believe about education,” he said.
    ”I mean, I guess that might work in the Soviet Union, but it doesn’t work here. That’s not who we are. That’s not what we’re about.”
    Comedians have recently taken up the debate as well. “I hear a lot of people tell me, ‘Don’t go near colleges. They’re so PC,’” Jerry Seinfeld said. “They just want to use these words: ‘That’s racist’; ‘That’s sexist’; ‘That’s prejudiced.‘ They don’t know what the hell they’re talking about.” Speaking with Vanity Fair at the Toronto International Film Festival, however, Sarah Silverman disagreed. “I think it’s a sign of being old if you’re put off by that,” she said. “You have to listen to the college-aged because they lead the revolution.”…
    http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/09/obama-political-correctness-college-campus

    ***would this include CAGW sceptics? doubt it.

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    el gordo

    Years ago when Malcolm Turnbull was Environment Minister he said:

    “I will not lead a party that is not as committed to effective action on climate change as I am”

    ——–

    Its clear that he will go to the next election with his own stamp on the Party, the heretics would have already been purged.

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    el gordo

    Politics is a tough game.

    http://stopturnbull.com/

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    Ian Wilson

    Put this into your Bing or google search engine and
    support this petition at change.org

    Bring Back Tony Abbott As PM Because We Voted For Tony

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    Ian Wilson

    Bring Back Tony Abbott As PM Because We Voted For Tony

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    John

    Abbott cost a lot of people a lot of money. He shut down the people smuggling which cost the traffickers millions and by removing the carbon tax/ETS he was costing traders big time.

    Australians didn’t want a carbon tax or an ETS but money talks. It always has and it always will.

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    el gordo

    ‘What the ALP is really worried about is that Turncoat will, in the minds of voters, be a better Labor PM than Shorten and win the next election.’

    Splatterbottom / The Gutter Trash

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    Tel

    The Liberals have abandoned their base. I expect them to get punished next election.

    With Abbott in charge I would have felt kind of miserable about dishing out punishment, like an onerous task you need to get over with.

    When it comes to Turnbull, I won’t need any concern over pangs of conscience.

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