JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Lo! Shark god protects us from storms, floods, heatwaves (sayth Nature & ABC)

Big news: A new endogenous forcing found for climate change — sharks. For millions of years you thought predator-prey relationships were just about big fish having dinner, but not so, they are climate forcings. Sharks cool the planet, and stop storms, floods, droughts and malaria. Crabs, on the other hand, pollute like a coal company. It’s a miracle that the planet made it through the last billion years without the EPA managing the  shark-crab numbers thing. This ABC interview inspired me to channel the spirit of neolithic science.

The dusken-shark doth smite the naughty fishies and give us nice weather

New research has found that sharks play an important role in preventing climate change, warning that overfishing and culling sharks is resulting in more carbon being released from the seafloor.

“Sharks, believe it or not, are helping to prevent climate change,” said Dr Peter Macreadie, an Australian Research Council Fellow from Deakin University and one of the paper’s authors.

Sharks: Good.  Crabs and Turtles: Bad.  Kill those turtles!

“Turtles, crabs, certain types of worms, stingrays — these animals that are overabundant to do with loss of predators used to keep their numbers in check,” Dr Macreadie said.

Someone send a note to Greenpeace — those turtle eggs are killing the planet.

The researchers used Cape Cod in Massachusetts as an example of where this process had been observed.

“There had been overfishing in the region, so a lot of the big fish had been removed and then what we saw was an increase — a remarkable increase, a huge increase — in the number of crabs that bury and borrow down in the system, in the salt marsh which sequestered all this carbon,” Dr Macreadie said.

“And we’d found that in an area there, the crabs had become so abundant that they had pretty much destroyed the salt marsh, and it was a small area, it was only 1.5 square kilometres, but it liberated 250,000 tonnes of carbon that had been stored in the ground.”

So the evil crabs release a quarter of a million tonnes of carbon? I say, save the planet with Chilli Crab Linguine!

Ooh. Look. There’s an Australian version: Chilli Crab Linguine With Vodka.

But don’t kill the turtles. They can buy carbon credits instead.

PS: This is going to be hard for big-chief climate modelers — tricky feedbacks ahead. In 2008 global warming was blamed for causing shark attacks. Now shark attacks are saving us from global warming.

Cue jokes now about how climate change jumped the shark…

h/t Brian, Michael Kile.

UPDATE: Leo G in comments: Critics say large-scale Cooked Crab Sequestration deployment is unproven and decades away from being commercialised.

UPDATE: Sophocles — What we really need to know is what effect [sharks] have on earth quakes…

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Lo! Shark god protects us from storms, floods, heatwaves (sayth Nature & ABC), 9.2 out of 10 based on 61 ratings

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128 comments to Lo! Shark god protects us from storms, floods, heatwaves (sayth Nature & ABC)

  • #
    oeman50

    According my calculations, 250,000 tonnes equates to 166 kg of carbon per cubic meter. Wow! Heavy….

    131

    • #
      oeman50

      Sorry, should be square meters.

      101

      • #

        250,000 tonnes of carbon is .916 MtCO2 equivalent.
        There are two ways to look at this. First the climate skeptic position.

        In 2011 annual human emissions were about 48000 MtCO2 equivalent. Lack of sharks is adding 0.0019% to the human-caused warming, the impact of which is small to approximately zero.

        Now take the climate alarmist position.

        Liechtenstein is one of the richest countries in the world. The impact of the lack of sharks is equivalent to 4 times that entire Nation’s emissions in 2014 and 10 times that Nation’s ambitious emission reduction commitment by 2030*.

        *Note in very small print. :) Liechtenstein has a population of 37500 and emissions 6.1 tCO2 per capita equivalent. Total 2014 emissions are about 0.0073% of the global The details are to be found in Liechtenstein’s Intended Nationally Determined Contribution for the Paris 2015 COP21.

        251

  • #
    Bulldust

    Another branch of research succombs to the overwhelming need to attract a small slice of the climate change gravy train.

    221

    • #
      Ursus Augustus

      Its the Twitterisation of science. An academic Tower of Babel.

      80

    • #
      Gav

      If it wasn’t so serious it would be laughable,I can’t fathom how supposedly educated people can come up with this tripe and still keep a straight face.

      A serious question for Jo – are scientists becoming the new lawyers ie ambulance(grants) chasers and shonks?

      I know that there are 10′s of thousands of legit scientists doing proper research and work but it seems that the shonks and sharks(pardon pun) get the headlines,it must be galling to have to keep on speaking up for science when for years it was a given?

      70

      • #
        Leonard Lane

        Gav good points. I have been wondering for some time if a lot of our grief on the international scale is too much money being funneled to climate science, social sciences (i.e. thinly veiled Marxist studies, etc.) and that research should be slashed or eliminated and the difference spent for tax relief and support to real sciences and engineering, and technology development. These include medical sciences, mathematics, engineering, etc.. Seems there is too much money for research focused on nonsense and not enough on legitimate science.

        40

        • #
          KinkyKeith

          You have hit the core of the issue.

          Imagine if for example the CSIRO was able to divert all of its current funding to actually work on REAL renewables .

          There would eventually be a payoff.

          At the moment so much of what they do is in the shadow of the CO2 CAGW Meme and is wasted.

          Look at Carbon Sequestration.

          My God. Talk about the emporers new clothes.

          They MUST know it isn’t real!

          But every pronouncement from that once great organization is now couched very carefully in terms to warm the heart of all politicians.

          Actually, what the taxpayer wants to hear from CSIRO IS THE TRUTH

          KK

          10

  • #
    Turtle of WA

    Kill those turtles!

    Scary stuff.

    101

  • #

    Next thing to deduce is that evolution caused climate change the same way. So to stop climate change we must eradicate anything with the potential to mutate. QUICK BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!

    131

  • #
    Manfred

    Pure distraction, no different from the rest of the climate comedy.

    Hand waving at sharks while the other quaffs escargot as fast as humanly possible.

    Paris here we come.
    Molluscs, slither for your lives.

    181

    • #

      In the global scheme of things it is a distraction. But for a Senior Lecturer from a minor department in a minor university (14 in Australia & 421 in the world) to get coverage on Australia’s premier TV channel is a major CV item. Wannabe pop stars or supermodels would simply die for such exposure.

      221

      • #
        Glen Michel

        One who seeks relevance and hopes of full funding.”Nature Climate Change” and an ABC interview all indicates he’s into a bit of snout troughing.

        90

        • #
          Glen Michel

          Hopefully funding…

          50

        • #

          Glen, don’t knock it. The lead author is still not yet 30 and the exposure could lead to a tenured professorship. There are many thousands of jealous Post-Grads and lecturers out there. The tragedy for us in the real world is that exposure is given to such trivia and nonsense, as against people who make positive scientific impacts in understanding eradication of cancer, or the understanding the role political despotism in maintaining absolute poverty.

          120

      • #
        Manfred

        KM, you refer to the ‘Warhole’ moment, those ‘priceless’ fifteen minutes?
        Almost as good as the yesterday’s newspaper used to wrap today’s fish shark ‘n chips methinks.
        As for the MSM trumpet of low intellectual wattage, they helplessly betray themselves at every turn.

        80

  • #
    sophocles

    they are climate forcings. Sharks cool the planet, and stop storms, floods, droughts and malaria.

    star comment
    What we really need to know is what effect they have on earth quakes. The sun currently stands accused but that’s not an anthropogenic cause, unlike human impacts on the shark population creating greater climate forcings.

    Sigh. Must be a another imminent climate conference somewhere …

    181

  • #
    James Bradley

    So if everything is a factor that causes climate change how is it that climate models are based on the only factor that they found a way to tax us on?

    361

    • #
      Radical Rodent

      +100! A point that has puzzled me for quite some time, too, James.

      151

    • #
      Leonard Lane

      Excellent point. Only CO2 causes climate change (always referred to warming at some point)yet everything the alarmist can think of (including crabs?) causes climate change.
      Too many mediocre, incompetent, and crooked “scientists” chasing far too much government research money directed to world governance.

      40

    • #
      sophocles

      It’s going to get really interesting when the owner of the sun starts charging for use of her property. She might regret that when all those suffering from skin cancers sue for damages, and countries go after her for failing to control its emissions which kill satellites, cause damaging and catastrophic climate change, damages for creating extreme weather, and reparations for ice ages. It could become rather hot property …

      40

      • #
        sophocles

        It’s why I haven’t claimed ownership of the galaxy. All it would take would be a (relatively) close super nova and the present ice age intensifies, new species appear and old ones change.

        Or another big rock from outer space turns us into dinosaurs—dead and extinct. That case wouldn’t cause any claims, but the survivable ones would become litigously expensive.

        40

  • #
    John F. Hultquist

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark

    “The phrase is based on a scene from a fifth-season episode of the sitcom Happy Days when the character Fonzie jumps over a shark while on water-skis.”

    71

  • #
    ScotsmaninUtah

    “Sea food … another BBQ favorite”

    Jo, I think there is some credibility to the claim that “sharks” protect us from storms.

    Here in Utah The Great Flood of (1862) caused immense damage, probably through not having many sharks here (or even “a shark”).

    I have to also agree with your researcher Dr. Macreadie’s claim that crabs are a real issue, and so in response the famous American restaurant chain Red Lobster (sea food specialists) are doing a “CrabFest” $7.99 all you can eat :D

    btw – Disney owns the copyright to TMNT “Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles” , so if you eat one .. you could have problems with your tourist VISA for the States.
    For those who enjoy crab , Disney’s “Little Mermaid” does include Sebastian (a crab), but he is not copyrighted per se and therefore is edible.

    Incidentally , this article ties in nicely with the story on CNN today by John D Sutter (famous for climate scare stories that provide for entertaining comments from readers)

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/29/opinions/sutter-beef-suv-cliamte-two-degrees/index.html

    in this he attacks “red meat” (probably not a good idea in America), and equates it to owning an SUV.

    101

  • #
    Yonniestone

    This is nothing, peak stupid will resurrect old school science with great vengeance and fury.

    We can look forward to,
    - Burning witches for weather cooking.
    - Throwing virgins in volcanos.
    - Reading the entrails of a special creature.

    You’d think that the fairy tales of the green agenda are more apt for a certain large group of followers currently causing global trouble as directed by their barbaric doctrine, the parallels are quite profound.

    111

    • #
      handjive

      I cause Global Warming and weigh more than a duck, therefore, I must be a witch.

      The science is settled.

      150

    • #

      Yonie – Your argument falls down in that you don’t define which creatures are speshul special ;¬)

      30

      • #

        Apologies should be Yonnie :¬(

        20

        • #
          Yonniestone

          Thanks for the correction Mr Colon…..in the spirit of inclusiveness all animals shall declared special and be subjugated to such examinations, there’s no reason why PC policy cannot be applied to any pseudo science as the IPCC has already blazed the way for generations to come, Huzzah! :)

          00

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Yonnie: it would be better, and safer, to throw homogenisers into volcanoes.
      I predict – with 95% certainty – that as the first adjuster goes up in smoke, the remaining 97% will suddenly discover that the actual figures are better after all.

      As for reading the entrails the BOM has probably exterminated the bunyip. Another charge against them which they can easily refute by producing a bunyip in court.

      20

      • #
        Yonniestone

        They’d probably hire Johnny Cochran to use the Chewbacca Defence, all courtesy of the taxpayer of course.

        10

    • #
      Wayne Job

      This over abundance of crabs will be self correcting, pointing out an area of crab infestation will attract some serious quantities of crab pots.
      Thus balancing the lack of sharks. Win win as swimming is also safer. Badly deluded research, one can only feel pity for people such as this.

      30

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Perhaps the special creature is a virgin witch?

      All we have to do is find one …

      00

  • #

    Shark steak is off the menu then, to be replaced by turtle soup?
    Maybe Greenpeace will supplement their cuddle a polar bear campaign with become a shark dental hygienist.

    121

  • #
    Steve

    I think there is a logical flaw in the proposition made in the article on the ABC website(which shows a photo of a big and very scary Great White). The problem is, since great whites and other human eating sharks don’t eat the small critters that eat sea grass – then that means killing them means more middle & lower level predators – which is good for sea grass – more sharks mean less middle and lower level predators- which is bad for sea grass – so I think this ABC attempt at science journalism just plain stupid.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-29/sharks-and-other-predators-help-prevent-climate-change/6813042

    “They are the seagrasses, the salt marshes, the mangroves and they’re among the most powerful carbon sinks in the world,” Dr Macreadie said.
    “So they will capture and store carbon at a rate 40 times faster than tropical rainforests like the Amazon and they’ll store that carbon in the ground for millennial time scales.”
    He said as predators were culled and overfished, other marine life consumed more and more vegetation.
    “Turtles, crabs, certain types of worms, stingrays — these animals that are overabundant to do with loss of predators used to keep their numbers in check,” Dr Macreadie said.

    91

  • #
    handjive

    Wait. What?

    September 11, 2014: Climate change to cut global shark populations by 44% in coming decades

    90

    • #
      GregS

      Oh No, it’s a runaway feedback loop!

      Less sharks will lead to more crabs and turtles which will release more of the dreaded Carbon from the seafloor which will in turn decrease the number of sharks.

      My great, great, great grandchildren may never see a shark.

      120

      • #
        el gordo

        Its a positive feedback, apparently.

        They are clutching at straws, making stuff up as they go along, to explain the pause.

        I mentioned the other day how the Klimatariat is suggesting that this coming El Nino will cause a repeat of the 2009-10 European winter blizzards.

        Its an unmitigated hoax, as is the shark thingy.

        60

        • #
          Leonard Lane

          I agree gordo. It is a race to determine the climate scientist that publishes on the last thing that causes climate change. Since there are nearly, or perhaps really, an infinite number of things; this race to the bottom in climate scientists will continue until they do indeed reach the bottom. But what horrors are at the intellectual and practical bottom of “science”? Lysenko-ism, no that’s been done, witches, no that’s been done, Communism, no that’s been done, hmmmm

          20

          • #
            el gordo

            ‘But what horrors are at the intellectual and practical bottom of “science”?’

            They are hoping global warming picks up soon (the irony burns) or they will have to convert to ‘lukewarmism’ to save their jobs.

            30

  • #
    KinkyKeith

    The capacity for Human Self Delusion seems to be Unaffected by Increases in the amount of education given subject.

    Perhaps we need less “Education” and a little more Reality.

    Give every Klimate Scientist (and politician) a Sustainable Reality Project for survival: a small plot of land for a veggie garden, a few chooks and a sharp axe with which to begin “dressing” the birds and maybe we will see a little common sense.

    The experiment in self sufficiency could become more focused when a large barbed wire fence is erected around each plot so that self sufficiency could be accurately demonstrated at 97% certainty.

    Reminds me of the old saying about humanity going round and round in ever decreasing circles until it disappears up its own orifice in blinding flash of blue light.

    We are very close to that “blue flash”.

    KK

    161

    • #
      GregS

      I also suspect that giving a number of these Climate Scientists or politicians a sharp axe would lead to a number of these folks being self-removed from the sample set for your experiment.

      Probably a good thing.

      50

    • #
      Manfred

      The Oozlum Bird a treasured and oft referred to favourite of mine.

      50

      • #
        KinkyKeith

        Brilliant Manfred.

        The item had me in for the fist line or so.

        KK

        30

      • #
        Yonniestone

        A bird that far up itself should be called the Kardashian…..

        20

        • #
          KinkyKeith

          Now that’s a whole nother bird entirely

          She does however remind me of a swallow.

          KK

          10

          • #
            Yonniestone

            KK breaking out the naughty dad jokes! :)

            10

            • #
              KinkyKeith

              I think you may have taken that the wrong way Yonnie.

              as you might recall I am interested in birds: this morning I got within about 4 metres of a coachwhip up near Nobbys near the harbour but still couldn’t see it.

              cant remember whether it was male or female.

              I still don’t know how it got past the censor.

              KK

              http://joannenova.com.au/2015/09/new-science-4-error-1-partial-derivatives/#comment-1747969

              10

              • #
                Yonniestone

                Apologies KK, naughty dad jokes are my forte, carry on sir.

                10

              • #
                KinkyKeith

                The coach whip crack is always preceded by two soft, drawn-out whistles, and more often than not concluded after a short pause with another note, repeated twice, sounding like the words “chew, chew,” also the two added notes al ways seemed to come from a few yards away. These were proved to come from the female in answer to the call of her mate. At other times the hen calls “coo coo-coo,” dwelling on the last “coo” until answered by her mate with the whipcrack. The two notes given by

                the female following the “crack” is often like “whit-wee,” or “which-are we.” The female is not always re sponsible Tor the curious double note which rounds off the whipcrack note like an echo. Under certain condi tions, the male can and does give both On one occasion two observers heard the call of the male In some under growth, and the responding note of the female came from the opposite di rection. Presently the male ‘was seen near the edge <& some scrub and seve ral times cave the usual note, and

                10

    • #
      KinkyKeith

      I’m not sure she was ever this young.

      A change of pace.

      For the Irish.

      KK

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z265BuKCQrc

      10

      • #
        Yonniestone

        Yes I’ve seen these guys live years ago when an Irish Murphy’s pub opened here, the place was packed and their performance was a true Gaelic art form.

        10

        • #
          KinkyKeith

          Well Yonnie

          It seems we have that in common.

          A few years ago at the Canberra Folk Fest they performed in one of the smaller rooms.

          It was packed with a couple of hundred people.

          There wasn’t a dry eye in the house.

          Very emotional.

          KK

          10

    • #
      Bill

      Ah, yes. Heinlein’s Glory Road solution to the problem of Urdli.

      00

  • #
    TedM

    And they probably got Gov’t funding to produce this bovine faeces. The alarmists get dumber by the day.

    91

    • #
      David Maddison

      They got government funding (look at the end of the paper, linked below by me) and you should be able to find reference to it and the cost here http://www.arc.gov.au/ One of the grant numbers is DEI 130101084 but I could not find reference to it.

      21

  • #
    Ruairi

    A warmist would never do harm,
    To a shark who just bit off one’s arm,
    For the climate-change cause,
    Now welcomes all Jaws,
    As a forcing in climate alarm.

    170

  • #
    Colin Henderson

    Who would have thought that the capitalist (sharks) on Shark Tanks were saving the planet from Global Warming and Climate Change!

    40

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    PS: This is going to be hard for big-chief climate modelers — tricky feedbacks ahead. In 2008 global warming was blamed for causing shark attacks. Now shark attacks are saving us from global warming.

    Amazing. Who’d a thunk it?

    Only in climate science I guess. ;-)

    90

  • #
    David Maddison

    Here is the paper – it is free to access. Go to this link and in a few seconds it will jump to the actual paper. http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nclimate2763.html

    51

    • #
      David Maddison

      Let me know if that works. It was working for me but now it seems to not work (going to the full paper). Perhaps they stopped the free access or perhaps you only get a couple of free views…

      51

  • #
  • #
    Gary in Erko

    Don’t worry. The UN can save us. They can vote that turtles and crabs are really sharks.

    60

  • #
    Annie

    Wot?! No more ‘flake n’ chips’? :(

    40

  • #
    pat

    and who has picked up this “story”?

    Phys.org, EurekaAlert, Guardian, SBS, Courier Mail, Brisbane Times(Fairfax), and a couple of others.

    drum roll…today’s scary warning:

    Bank of England’s Carney warns of climate change risk
    BBC News – ‎3 hours ago‎

    Bank of England governor – global economy at risk from climate change
    BBC News – ‎3 hours ago‎

    Mark Carney warns investors face ‘huge’ climate change losses
    Financial Times – ‎1 hour ago‎

    Carney Urges G-20 to Act on Stability Risks From Climate Change
    Bloomberg – ‎2 minutes ago‎

    BoE’s Carney say firms must be more open about carbon footprint
    Reuters – ‎1 hour ago‎

    Move to low-carbon economy before it’s too late, says Carney
    The Times (subscription) – ‎1 hour ago‎

    Bank of England governor Mark Carney calls on insurers to help prepare for climate change
    Telegraph.co.uk – ‎3 hours ago‎

    Carney warns of risks from climate change ‘tragedy of the horizon’
    The Guardian – ‎2 hours ago

    Bank of England governor spells out dangers of climate change and severe weather to world economies
    ITV News – ‎1 hour ago

    Bank of England”s Carney Warns About Impact of Climate Change on Financial …
    Nasdaq – ‎3 hours ago

    ABC etc will soon follow…‎‎‎

    70

  • #
    David Maddison

    Global warming has increased “tensions” between sharks and humans….

    http://www.sharks-world.com/sharks_and_global_warming/

    50

    • #
      Radical Rodent

      I do hope that article is tongue-in-cheek. It doesn’t read that way, but that could be its genius; however, as there is no commenting facility, I fear that it could be in earnest.

      00

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    I just discovered this. Is it the beginning of the freeze we’ve all been expecting? I don’t know. But it’s got dozens of references from Google.

    I searched for, cold blob found in north atlantic and just picked the first one in the list.

    Clearly someone is very worried about it.

    50

    • #
      Wayne Job

      Roy apparently there are two cold blobs that have been hanging around for a few years, they do not go away and are changing the normal flow of ocean currents. That is what is bothering them, global cooling, hiatus stuff.

      10

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Wayne,

        We know that ocean currents do change their routes around the globe. I was taught that way back in college somewhere or I read it somewhere after college. So unless I’m wrong about that there’s nothing new in changing currents.

        Whatever this is I think it has a natural cause like the ozone hole (another wasted alarm) and while it’s no doubt of great interest for study and may mean something about what we can expect in the future, it’s also well outside of any human control. I won’t be worrying about it because, let’s face it, whatever happens is something we either cope with or die if you know what I mean. I don’t even look at weather forecasts anymore. Whatever happens I just cope. If it should rain I have an umbrella in the car and if it’s too cold I have a jacket there as well. Problem solved.

        20

      • #
        gai

        I went looking for your Cold Blob and found this and almost fell out of the chair laughing.

        … A record setting area of cold water was found in the North Atlantic, which has caused some scientists to ring the alarms. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) recently discovered this cold spot data, which is in line with our models that warn that we are in for not global warming, but a deep freeze.

        The energy output of the sun is in crash mode; historically this 300-year cycle has marked the rise and fall of empires. With the invasion of people from the Middle East into Europe, there is no housing. They have filled up stadiums and most are living in tents. The winter will be very cold and many may die from exposure. Migration patterns should be south, not north. This is a serious problem from a historical perspective. This is also why we are moving our offices south. If not, the computer may leave on its own.….
        http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/37504

        00

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          I could easily laugh if the whole thing wasn’t so fraught with possibly dangerous government actions. NASA hasn’t a bit of credibility with anyone who has even a shred of good judgment.

          I’d like to see the computer move south by itself though. That would be quite a trick to behold. ;-)

          Actually, since the computers they’re no doubt talking about need a lot of air conditioning to keep them cool I would think staying north would help their electricity bill a lot. But you never know with a government agency, especially in the present administration.

          00

  • #
    • #

      true fact… numbers of pirates is on the increase.

      When making things up to support a joke argument it helps make the joke argument funny, it helps if your “facts” sort of look real so as to enhance the parody, otherwise you become the parody yourself. The FSM got away with it because it was clever on other levels and was not a monochromatic appeal for applause from its friends.

      38

  • #
    Annie

    I had always thought of sharks as ‘naughty fishies’ of a distinctly primitive type! Am I now expected to bow down and worship the great Shark God? Or something like that….

    61

  • #

    thanks for the light relief… I could not go past this

    For millions of years, you thought predator-prey relationships were just about big fish having dinner, but not so, they are climate forcings.

    1. Commas wrong.
    2. Sentence as a whole is nonsense.
    3. No one has lived for millions of years and human knowledge does not extend that far back.
    4. No self respecting biologist or even an interested member of the public would be happy to simplify predator-prey relationships as “big fish having dinner”. Thanks for assuming that we do.
    5. The “they” in “they are climate”. Is it big fish or relationships?

    19

    • #

      Gee, it’s called satire.

      Nonsense in Nature gets what it deserves.

      But I’ll fix the commas. Thanks. The “they” is both.

      100

      • #

        and there I was thinking your blockbuster series was satire ;)

        011

      • #
        Yonniestone

        Geez Jo the Frank Burns of climate trolls giving you advice on satire, and I thought it had turned over a new leaf.

        60

      • #
        Alan

        Just read a comment over at Bishop Hill by someone by the name of Earle recalling a quote he thought was from Issac Held, when paraphrased is “Just because a study is published in Nature Climate Change doesn’t mean it’s necessarily wrong” ;)

        60

  • #
    pat

    dealing with “the reality” of what this article says hasn’t even been happening – it’s been a “quiet spell”!

    29 Sept: UK Telegraph: Marion Dakers: Bank of England governor Mark Carney calls on insurers to help prepare for climate change
    After facing criticism this year for Bank of England research into global warming’s impact on the financial world, Mr Carney said that both government and the private sector had roles to play to ensure that ***“a market in the transition to a two-degree world can be built”, referring to the assumption that global temperature rises could be capped at this amount.
    “While the insurance industry is well placed to adapt to a changing climate in the short-term, their response could pose wider issues for society, including whether to nationalise risk,” he said, hinting at a state-supported climate change scheme in the footsteps of Flood Re, which helps to cover households in flood-prone areas that could otherwise not buy insurance…
    He also suggested that the climate talks in Paris in December should discuss an industry-led Climate Disclosure Task Force, where carbon-intensive companies could tell the world how much pollution they were producing, with the goal of understanding better the global scale of the problem.
    ***Insurance companies have enjoyed several years of relatively low claims for large natural disasters, a phenomenon that has put prices under pressure – although many firms have said they ***do not expect this quiet spell to last.
    “While there is always room for scientific disagreement about climate change (as there is with any scientific issue) I have found that insurers are among the most determined advocates for tackling it sooner rather than later. And little wonder. While others have been debating the theory, you have been dealing with ***the reality,” Mr Carney told an audience at the Lloyd’s of London building…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/insurance/11899845/Bank-of-England-governor-Mark-Carney-calls-on-insurers-to-help-prepare-for-climate-change.html

    comment by nexus01: So another level of bull to cover that fact the financial system is failing

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    Why am I reminded of The Goodies and ‘The Cod War‘.

    Tony.

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    MudCrab

    Crabs, on the other hand, pollute like a coal company.

    Absolutely correct, and what’s more?

    I’ld do it AGAIN!!!

    (Evil Laugh)

    (Although technically speaking my mining years were in copper/uranium, but let’s not let facts get in the way, shall we? :D )

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    Alice Thermopolis

    TALE FROM TURTLE BAY NYC

    Especially voracious is species now swimming in Turtle Bay*.

    *Term “Turtle Bay” occasionally used as a metonym for UN NYC headquarters or for United Nations as a whole.

    Alice

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    pat

    climate chaos should have begun several days ago!

    13 May 2014: US State Dept: Remarks With French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius Before their Meeting
    FOREIGN MINISTER FABIUS: (In French.) We have 500 days to avoid the climate chaos. (In French.)…
    And we have – as I said, we have 500 days to avoid climate chaos. And I know that President Obama and John Kerry himself are committed on this subject and I’m sure that with them, with a lot of other friends, we shall be able to reach success on this very important matter…
    http://www.state.gov/secretary/remarks/2014/05/226015.htm

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    thingadonta

    If you want to be lenient, this is a typical weakness within academic research, a lack of ‘sense of proportion’. The reason this tends to occur might be generously described as follows.

    Academic ‘research’ typically tends to deal with things that markets and society at large don’t attend to, or deal with, all that well, such as regional services, a sense of history, pollution, minority groups, the downtrodden or misunderstood, and so on. In other words, gaps and weaknesses within society at large. Some of these sort of issues are well worth researching.

    But because the issues research often deals with tend to be perceived as ‘minor’ or ‘overlooked’ in some way, what sometimes happens is a loss of a sense of relative proportion.

    In a world where something isn’t assigned a relative ‘economic’ or other ‘value’ to start with, it can be difficult to assign a ‘value’ or price at the end of it. In scientific and mathematical modelling, it can then sometimes gain an assigned magnitude far greater, or out of touch, than its’ relative importance(e.g. C02 in climate modelling).

    In a world without ‘numbers’ or ‘costs’ to start with, any number or cost then tends to become the same sort of value, or cost, relative to another (a hallmark of socialism), and moreover, these ‘values/costs’ then tend to attain a value or magnitude based on what the people within such a world arbitrarily wish to assign it. (The ‘command economy’)

    So sharks ‘affect climate change’!, even though the ‘effect’ might numerically be something close to zero, in the real, external world.

    (Same goes for CO2, within the ‘academic research world’ it tends to be assigned a far higher importance that it likely has in the real, external world).

    (This might all sound very simplistic and obvious, but people within ‘artificial worlds’ don’t seem to see these sorts of things very easily, that people on the outside can often see as bleedingly obvious).

    Another reason we have small government and why research data/methodology should be routinely audited.

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      RoHa

      For lack of a sense of proportion, you need this.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSnJl7B_TVs

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      Wayne Job

      Not a sense of relative proportion, it is a lack of common sense and rationality. Both these are indoctrinated out of the mind with both PC and newspeak,
      our universities have been mainly hijacked by highly trained incompetent useful idiots passing on these wonderful traits to others.
      Thus many who pass through those hallowed halls believe at least three impossible things before lunch. Nuff said.

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    pat

    28 Sept: Politico: The green car myth?
    It’s not just diesel. Gasoline-powered cars also spew more pollutants than expected.
    By Kalina Oroschakoff and Sara Stefanini
    As well as demanding a broader investigation into carbon dioxide emissions and fuel efficiency standards, T&E (Brussels-based NGO Transport & Environment) is pushing the European Commission to follow through with its plans to implement a new testing system, the Worldwide Light Vehicle Test Procedure, in 2017.
    The Commission has met resistance from manufacturers and big car-making countries, including Germany, the U.K., France and Italy, said Archer, whose NGO has taken part in working group meetings…
    Philippe Houchois, the author of the UBS report, said the Volkswagen scandal will lead to a renewed focus on EU emissions rules “where targets remain disconnected from real-life emissions and NOx compliance is proving challenging.”…
    http://www.politico.eu/article/green-car-myth-news-pollution/

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    pat

    the home of CRU! surprised CAGW sceptics aren’t on the banned list:

    29 Sept: UK Independent: Aftab Ali: University of East Anglia Students’ Union bans ‘racist’ Mexican sombreros from Freshers’ Fair
    Locals take to social media to blast the union’s decision and post pictures of themselves wearing the hats
    Given out at the Freshers’ Fair by local Tex-Mex eatery Pedro’s – which says it has been serving the people of Norwich for over 25 years – UEA students’ union (SU) campaigns and democracy officer Chris Jarvis stood by the decision and insisted the SU wants all members to feel safe and accepted by ensuring there is no behaviour, language, or imagery which could be considered racist at all events…
    The statement from the union went on to highlight a list of points it will not tolerate at any events, saying discrimination based on the following characteristics is not permitted:
    •Age
    •Colour
    •Disability
    •Ethnic Origin
    •Gender
    •HIV Status
    •Marital Status
    •Nationality
    •Political Beliefs
    •Religion or Belief
    •Race
    •Sexual Orientation
    •Spent or Irrelevant Criminal Convictions
    •Trade Union Membership
    •Sub-culture Identification
    A spokesperson from Pedro’s took to Facebook to reiterate it is a fun loving restaurant which is proud of its party atmosphere…
    http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/university-of-east-anglia-students-union-bans-racist-mexican-sombreros-from-freshers-fair-a6671236.html

    pure waffle:

    29 Sept: ClimateChangeNews: Alex Pashley: What role should climate compensation have in a Paris deal
    Poor countries want rich polluters to pay out for climate damages. We asked five analysts how a new pact might resolve the freighted matter
    Huge reservations remain. The developed world fears being exposed to a barrage of financial claims as an overheating planet stokes more storms and droughts. But the direction of travel is encouraging for climate-vulnerable countries…
    Alden Meyer, director of policy and strategy at the Union of Concerned Scientists, Massachusetts, US:
    The landing zone is fairly clear when you think about it…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2015/09/29/what-role-should-climate-compensation-have-in-a-paris-deal/

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      Tel

      Lol, “democracy officer” no doubt totally uninterested in popular opinion.

      Wait until it occurrs to them that eating Mexican food is racist… because Mexican food, sounds a bit like Mexican hat, sounds a bit Mexican!!!

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      gai

      •Political Beliefs
      •Religion or Belief

      Covers Climate Skeptics so we are invited and can scream discrimination if anyone touches us.

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    pat

    who does Stern think he is? Christiana Figueres?

    28 Sept: The Hill: Devin Henry: Obama climate official predicts ‘monumental undertaking’ at UN
    Todd Stern, the State Department’s special envoy for climate change, told Climate Week participants that world governments are on the verge of a “monumental undertaking” if a UN conference leads to a climate agreement this December.
    Todd Stern, the State Department’s special envoy for climate change, told Climate Week participants that world governments are on the verge of a “monumental undertaking” if a UN conference leads to a climate agreement this December…
    “All of this depends upon a belief that world leaders have finally come together and aligned themselves in a global regime that will push us onward and upward to confront climate change together,” he said…
    http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/255190-obama-climate-official-predicts-monumental-undertaking-at-un

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    So the last few remaining sharks have decided they prefer human to turtle is the upshot?

    Python couldn’t have written it.

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    • #
      PeterS

      Perhaps he did and all this and the global warming scam is one big joke. If only that were true. Then we can all laugh and go home. Alas that ain’t so. The biggest scam in history continues from strength to strength.

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    Robbo_WA

    Global warming and ocean acidification are making sharks less agile! So, that’s a positive feedback leading to sharkless oceans, crabs everywhere (including in Antarctica) and runaway warming.

    On the other hand, global warming might kill the crabs, too. So that is a null feedback.

    But wait: a University of Queensland team says that global warming is creating stronger hybrid sharks. That must be a negative feedback.

    My head is spinning… How many days left do we have to save the sharks?

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    bobl

    I think Dr Evans said it best, in climate everything affects everything. Im reminded of a story recently that showed that farmers in the midwest of the USA are having trouble with soil sulphur fertility and alkaline soils pretty much for the first time because we have removed too much SOx from the atmosphere.

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    Dennis

    September produced the hottest Sharks since modern records have been compiled.

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    pat

    can anyone help?

    have just come across what is, apparently, a Graham Lloyd article in The Australian 5 days ago, on the BoM investigation/Greg Hunt revelations, which I haven’t seen before now, even though I have searched every day for his response.
    however, it is behind a paywall.

    is anyone able to copy and paste a few bits from it and say whether the article is substantial or not? thanx for any assistance.

    Minister stymied probe into BoM
    GRAHAM LLOYD
    The BoM escaped a forensic examination because Greg Hunt was concerned about what it could mean for its reputation.
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/greg-hunt-stymied-forensic-probe-into-bureau-of-meteorology/story-e6frg6xf-1227544342778

    funny thing is Lloyd didn’t link to his article on his twitter age, yet he did link to the Guardian & ABC articles on the matter:

    https://twitter.com/glloydtwit

    [Fixed link here to the Australian - Jo]

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      Random Comment

      Pat,

      [RC it needs the proper link. Thanks for letting me know. I'll fix the comment. --Jo]
      [SNIP helpful info about the link which is fixed - jo]

      There is also a report by Jared Owens in The Australian from 25th September about the same issue:

      Greg Hunt says he killed off Tony Abbott’s weather bureau inquiry

      Environment Minister Greg Hunt has claimed responsibility for having “killed off” the Abbott government’s proposed investigation into the Bureau of Meteorology’s climate modelling, as he also stepped back from plans to erode green activists’ legal standing to challenge major projects.

      The weather bureau has sustained heavy criticism over its “homogenisation” of climate records to account for artificial changes in the environment, such as rapid urbanisation, that critics say has exaggerated the impact of global warming.

      Documents obtained under Freedom of Information have revealed Tony Abbott’s department last year canvassed establishing a taskforce to carry out “due diligence” on the bureau’s climate records to ensure public confidence following a series of critical articles in The Australian.

      Mr Hunt confirmed the question was raised with his department by Mr Abbott’s officials.

      “My answer was very clear: we have perhaps the best or one of the best meteorological organisations in the world. I have full confidence in their data and the idea was killed at that point,” the Environment Minister told the ABC’s Lateline program.

      “Frankly, my view was crystal clear. There was no need for such a review because there had already been the periodic normal review which found that their practices were sound, scientific and of the highest calibre.”

      The Abbott government last month announced it would repeal section 487 of the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act, which allows any group with a recent history of environmental activism to challenge environmental approvals in the courts regardless of whether or not they have a direct interest.

      The decision followed a Federal Court action that exposed Mr Hunt’s approval of Adani’s massive Carmichael coalmine in central Queensland as incompetent.

      Asked if the government would proceed with the policy, Mr Hunt told ABC Radio: “There are no plans from any discussions that I’ve had to change that law. We know that the challenge of getting it through the Senate is significant and so that will be, I expect, dealt with in due course.

      “Our focus here is to ensure that we have the highest standards, that as the world heritage committee found for example we are a global role model in managing the Great Barrier Reef and that what we do is we have high standards.

      “We make decisions and we would hope that that means that law and science are the basis of decision-making in Australia and that everybody should be able to have confidence in that process, but nor should they be using that process as a means of deliberately thwarting and trying to override the umpire’s decision.”

      Asked about the Abbott government’s aversion to wind farms, Mr Hunt said renewables were a “fundamental” and “appropriate” part of Australia’s energy mix and would consider allowing the Clean Energy Finance Corporation to invest in turbines.

      “There may have been views expressed by particular individuals but the policy of course was for a doubling of renewables at the large scale level between now and 2020 and that will be a challenge but I believe it will be done,” he said.

      Pat – Let me know if you want me to look further.

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      Random Comment

      Pat,
      I think I’ve found the article by Graham Lloyd you were seeking. It was published on 26th September 2015.

      Greg Hunt stymied forensic probe into Bureau of Meteorology
      The Bureau of Meteorology escape­d a forensic examination of its treatment of national temperature data because federal Environment Minister Greg Hunt was concerned about what it could mean for the bureau’s reputation. Tony Abbott had urged a “due diligence” examination of the BoM but documents released under Freedom of Information laws show the plan was heavily resisted­ by the Environment Departmen­t and Mr Hunt. The release of documents is the first sign of attempts by the Turnbull government to distance itself from the Abbott era on climate change issues. In a letter to the former prime minister in November last year, Mr Hunt said: “It is important to note that public trust in the ­bureau’s data and forecasts, particularly as they relate to bushfires and cyclones, is paramount.”
      Mr Hunt said yesterday there had been “no need for such a review­ because there had already been the periodic normal review which found that their practices were sound, scientific and of the highest calibre”. He said when the idea of a “due diligence” review was raised, “my answer was very clear: we have perhaps the best or one of the best meteorological organisations in the world. I have full confidence in their data — the idea was killed at that point.”
      However, the BoM had not acted on the recommendation of a peer review of its national temp­erature data that an independent oversight body be established. Following a series of articles in The Australian, Mr Hunt established a strengthened oversight panel to review the BoM’s ongoing work on national climate data. Jennifer Marohasy, who raised several concerns about the BoM’s national temperature series, ACORNSat, said yesterday that the review had been “very superficial” because it did not consider the many concerns in any detail. Dr Marohasy and other independent scientists and statisticians have claimed the BoM’s homo­genisation techniques introduced a warming bias; the BoM strongly rejects this. Following a one-day seminar with the BoM, the technical review panel said it was “generally satisfied” with BoM’s performance, but it made a series of recommend­ations for better data-handling and statistical methods. A major recommendation was that the bureau should “quantify uncertainty” in its data. BoM technical review panel chairman Ron Sandland said the substance of concerns raised publicly­ would be addressed if the panel’s recommendations were adopted. The BoM has said it is acting on the review panel’s ­recommendations.

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        manalive

        Greg Hunt was concerned about what it could mean for the bureau’s reputation …it is important to note that public trust in the ­bureau’s data and forecasts, particularly as they relate to bushfires and cyclones, is paramount …

        Hunt, law graduate with honours, is using the age-old legal technique attributed to Cicero in defence of Cluentius viz. ‘throwing dust in the eyes of the jury’, in this case the taxpaying public.

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    pat

    30 Sept: Rockhampton Morning Bulletin: READERS DISCUSS: Climate change – fact or propaganda?
    A READER has written this in a letter to the editor.
    “There is no disagreement about climate change. It has existed since the first day the Earth was created.
    “The weather changes every day, sometimes good, sometimes bad.
    “The only disagreement is that the weather is influenced by the carbon dioxide generated by man, and the answer is an emphatic no.”
    Here are what readers had to say on Facebook: …
    http://www.themorningbulletin.com.au/news/readers-share-views-on-climate-change/2791421/

    more comments on the FB page, including this final comment (lol):

    Stuart Beer Lol, it was a comedic piece yeah?
    Daz Bambrick Also, since other Australian news sites are able to accurately report climate news, maybe you could take a lesson from SMH (links to Chris Mooney/WaPo’s piece in SMH “Scientists worried about cold ‘blob’ in North Atlantic amid record hot spell)
    https://www.facebook.com/themorningbulletin/posts/949743475072213

    credit to the Morning Bulletin for allowing the exchange.

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    pat

    LOL:

    29 Sept: GreenBiz: Barbara Grady: Mars, Bloomberg vow with ’6 million companies’ to act on climate change
    PHOTO CAPTION: Mars imprinted green M&M candies with “RE100″ to represent 100-percent renewable energy, served at the Climate Group’s signature Climate Week business meeting.
    Michael Bloomberg, former mayor of New York City and United Nations Secretary General’s Special Envoy for Cities-Climate change, said, “Young people expect this,” explaining they want concrete action on climate change…
    “There has been a cultural shift,” said JP Morgan Chase Vice President Marisa Buchanan, head of sustainable finance…
    Unilever CEO Paul Polman renewed his company’s commitment to helping finance sustainability in the third world by agreeing to work with the Clinton Global Initiative in investing in transforming the lives of 100 million people in developing world through sustainability…
    ***And according to the We Mean Business coalition, 6 million companies indicated support for a strong climate deal, letting their voices be heard through various coalitions. “Organizations working with more than 6,000,000 companies around the world want an ambitious climate deal at COP21 in Paris this December,” We Mean Business said in a full-page advertisement in the Financial Times Monday.
    (THE TWEET TO PROVE THE “6 MILLION” CLAIM)
    PHOTO CAPTION: In a tweet by We Mean Business coalition president Keith Tuffley, he holds up the Financial Times ad the coalition placed announcing that 6 million firms said they want an ambituous international climate deal.
    COMMENT by gary4205: I’m boycotting M&Ms then!
    http://www.greenbiz.com/article/mars-bloomberg-vow-6-million-companies-act-climate-change

    We Mean Business Coalition
    (CHECK ALL THE CONNECTIONS AT BOTTOM OF PAGE, INCLUDING WORLD BANK, WWF, PRINCE OF WALES CORPORATE LEADERS GROUP, B TEAM, CERES, TERI, UNEP, E3G, WRI)
    http://www.wemeanbusinesscoalition.org/

    THE ORIGINAL 6 MILLION AD
    http://wemeanbusinesscoalition.org/sites/default/files/WMB038_FT%20Ad%28FNL%29.pdf

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      pat quotes this:

      …..“RE100″ to represent 100-percent renewable energy, served at the Climate Group’s signature Climate Week business meeting.
      Michael Bloomberg, former mayor of New York City and United Nations Secretary General’s Special Envoy for Cities-Climate change, said, “Young people expect this,” explaining they want concrete action on climate change…

      This from the man who was Mayor of New York City, where a population of 8.5 Million people consume more electricity than the whole of Africa, minus Algeria, South Africa and Egypt, so NYC’s 8.5 million people get more electricity than 930 Million people.

      New York City will NEVER run on 100% Renewable power.

      Tony.

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    William

    Southern Ocean “sink” turns the tide on climate change alarm .The Australian 11 September 2015 article .Southern Ocean carbon dioxide absorption increased 400 % from 2007 to 2015 .The finding have invigorated debate about how well scientists understand the natural variations in the earths climate .Now the crabs have come to the Climate scientist’s rescue .

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    pat

    loyal to what?

    30 Sept: 9News: AAP: Abetz calls for Liberal Party loyalty
    Dumped senior government minister Eric Abetz has called for unity among Liberal Party members after news of mass resignations in response to the change in federal leadership.
    He said it is understandable that Malcolm Turnbull’s toppling of former prime minister Tony Abbott has left some members disenfranchised, but the Hobart-based senator wants to reassure followers their voice will still be heard.
    “With calls for the formation of a new party and hundreds of resignations from the Liberal Party, I call on members to remain as members of our party,” Senator Abetz said in a newsletter to members on Wednesday…
    “I will continue to be a strong advocate for the grass roots of our cause and what we believe in, albeit from the backbench.”…
    http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/09/30/17/14/abetz-calls-for-liberal-party-loyalty

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    pat

    jo – thanx for fixing the graham Lloyd link. btw jo, should have said “sayth” in the title of this thread should have been “saith” – not that it matters. lol.

    Random Comment -

    many thanx for posting the Lloyd text. definitely the best coverage so far re the Hunt revelations. hopefully, this is not the end of the line, though. respect to all those pursuing BoM’s methodology.

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    Tossle

    Dont worry about the turtle numbers, sea level rises will prevent them from laying eggs, The Guardian told us so couple of months ago.

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