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Headlines contradictory. Pressure intense. Meetings in Bonn, NY, Lima. It’s Paris Paris Paris

The agenda is relentless

Look at the list of meetings being held (below) — last week, officials were in Bonn, “clarifying the options”, and they have another five-day session in October. On top of that ministers from 60 nations will meet for “this Sunday and Monday”. On Sept 27 a luncheon in New York has been added onto the UN General Assembly (is that the emergency meeting Ban Ki Moon called last week, or something else as well?). After that foreign ministers are meeting  in Lima. This is global wheeling and dealing with big power and money at stake. (If only the UN cared as much about poverty and disease, imagine what they could do?).

The global headlines are a perfect PR mix of contradiction

This weekend in the media the road to Paris is described both as stalled at a frustrating “snails pace” and with “hints of progress“. It’s a stalemate, which also is “starting to take shape“. The UN bureaucrats would be happy with that. If headlines were too confident everyone relaxes, gets bored and moves on, and if headlines are dire, everyone gives up. The name of the PR game is to keep the spectators focused. It needs to be like the final set of Wimbledon with the result close but in doubt til that last game.

Whatever happens in Paris, I predict that when it ends, the PR will say the agreement was a “breakthrough”. It will also say “it’s not enough”. This is in keeping with the spirit of everlasting continuation. Ideally the problem will never be solved but hover in a perpetual state of  tipping. No matter what we do, the gravy train will want more.

How much do they need to change the weather? As much as we can give. They will take until the protests hit “that point”.

AFP:  “Not repeating the mistakes of Copenhagen” is a common refrain at the talks in Bonn, and something of a mantra for the organisers of the November 30-December 11 conference in the French capital.

And yet, progress has been incremental and painfully slow.

Negotiators left the former West German capital Friday after a week of closed-door meetings with very little to show and a draft agreement “not fit for a negotiation,” in the words of the European Commission’s top negotiator, Elina Bardram.

The agenda is relentless

UN Climate talks progressing at a snails pace [ABC]:  The UN said the talks were on track for the summit, due to take place between November 30 and December 11, after a week of negotiations in Bonn made progress in clarifying options about everything from cuts in greenhouse gas emissions to raising aid to developing nations.

AFP:  The French hosts have moved aggressively to bridge that gap [between the diplomats unable to negotiate and the leaders who make the decisions].

To start, they have enlisted early and often the ministers who will ink the deal in December, with the next “informal” meeting — with some 60 countries in attendance — scheduled for this Sunday and Monday.

Other high-level parlays coming up will give top leaders a chance to narrow the gap on core climate issues, ranging from hundreds of billions of dollars in financing for poor countries to how ambitious the world will be in slashing greenhouse gases.

On September 27, French President Francois Hollande and Ban Ki-moon will host a climate luncheon summit in New York, on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly.

- A game changer -

Also in September, foreign ministers will gather in another climate arena, called the Major Economies Forum, with finance ministers set to meet in Lima the following month at a joint session of the International Monetary Fund and World Bank.

Finally, France has invited presidents and prime ministers to attend the first day of the 12-day Paris conference.

A major inconvenience is that all the “victim” nations used as PR tools in this battle actually want some money. We might give them an early warning system instead:

Hints of compromise in Paris climate talks — BBC:

Poorer countries want compensation for extreme weather events that they link to large scale carbon emissions.

But the US and EU have long resisted this idea, fearing an endless liability running into billions of dollars.

The question almost derailed the UN process in Poland in 2013. The parties eventually agreed to set up the so-called Warsaw Mechanism, which was given two years to develop a plan of how the issue should be tackled.

Many poorer nations felt they had been fobbed off on something they regard as critical to their very survival.

A proposal from the US was said to concede that the Warsaw Mechanism should be extended and made permanent. They would also “respond to the concerns of developing countries”.

There was likely to be support for other approaches on loss and damage including early warning systems. But an official with knowledge of the proposal stressed that the Warsaw Mechanism was definitely not about liability or compensation.

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Headlines contradictory. Pressure intense. Meetings in Bonn, NY, Lima. It's Paris Paris Paris, 9.1 out of 10 based on 82 ratings

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178 comments to Headlines contradictory. Pressure intense. Meetings in Bonn, NY, Lima. It’s Paris Paris Paris

  • #
    RoHa

    Ah, Paris!

    I think there should be a rule that all such Climate conferences should be held Iat the end of January, and alternate between Omsk and Marble Bar.

    480

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Slight modification RoHa …”conferences should be held out of doors, at the end of January”…

      470

      • #
        AndyG55

        And they should shut of the Nuclear power stations and make the conference rely solely on wind and solar from Germany and Denmark…. at market rates of course ;-)

        560

        • #
          Kevin Lohse

          Wouldn’t work. Those who attend these junkets do so because someone else is paying. The lotus eaters are insulated from the real world.

          330

        • #
          Owen Morgan

          Perhaps the Frogs should turn the Eiffel Tower into the world’s biggest wind turbine, as a proof of concept.

          260

          • #
            James Murphy

            As of February this year, it’s already got 2 helical blade wind turbines (~5m high, ~3m wide, nameplate 3.2kW each) on it, but i would doubt they actually generate the advertised 10000 kWh per year, or if they do, that they do it when it’s open for business.

            Amusingly, the company paid to provide the turbines said that it’s all for show, as the tower already runs on 100% renewable energy… still, having said that, each time I’ve wandered past it, the blades have been spinning…

            Paris has a master plan for becoming ‘green’, or ‘greener’. The most beneficial thing I can see is the aim to reduce air pollution, it’s not quite at Beijing levels, but it can, and does get really bad on occasions.

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            • #
              David Maddison

              Here is a video of the atocity. https://youtu.be/HwK4P2Ln0Eg

              Like you James, I would be very surprised if these windmills generate anything close to the advertised power. And like most windmills it is very likely that over their short lifetimes they will not even return the energy used in their manufacture.

              60

              • #
                KinkyKeith

                No doubt it will be taken down after Le Conference, ou peut-être, âpres Le : Conférence.

                I am assuming that conferences are M rather than F.

                Wrong: c’est La Conference.

                KK

                30

      • #
        el gordo

        A repeat of the European winter of 2010-11, which arrived unusually early, might produce bureaucratic rumblings.

        But then again, they are probably impervious to what is actually happening in the real world.

        390

      • #
        Dyspeptic Curmudgeon

        ..out of doors, at the end of January, in Yakutsk, Siberia and Cook, South Australia. Almost exactly 90 degrees apart N/S and almost on the same longitude. 62N, 129.4E and 30S, 130.2E.
        Yakutsk is on the Lena River, Siberia. Cook sS.A. Is just north of of the Nullarbor Park. easily good for 9 degrees of temp difference!

        00

  • #

    They are truly aware that hopes of keeping the troughs overflowing is rapidly diminishing, so the last stops are being pulled out to avoid financial withdrawal symptoms.

    320

  • #
    AndyG55

    The UN has a massive humanitarian issue on its hands with refugees from Syria and across the Mediterranean

    But the UN is missing in action.. too busy trying to find a way to rule the world.

    Its SICK, ANTI-HUMAN and TOTALLY DECEITFUL !!!

    773

    • #
      Ross

      You beat me to it Andy. If the UN wants to regain it’s credibility (if it even had any) it should be leading the way with the European migrant/refugee issue. It is no where to be seen.
      They should be getting very worried that the current issue will keep Paris off the front page –and I hope it does.

      530

    • #
      Lank is UNkind

      Climate change is a smokescreen. It means the UN can divert attention from real issues like the murderous ISIS, refugees, poverty and wars.
      Climate change means these well paid spongers can leach out a high paid lavish lifestyle without being seen to be the blood suckers that they really are.

      320

      • #
        bobl

        Except that the climate change excuse is actually being manipulated by the UN to enable it to tax countries via treaty. That is they are trying to access your and my tax money without needing the approval of our sovereign government and though them of course our permission the taxpayer. We cant even change this by voting down the government. I call it tax by treaty, and it’s the most undemocratic thing I have ever heard of. I don’t mind funding the UN but that funding has to be on the terms of the voters in democratic countries and not on the terms of some UN treaty out of our control.

        330

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          Bobl, we have to remember that the vast majority of people in the world, do not live in a democracy, or even the sham of a democracy.

          Most countries have Government by Bureaucracy (irrespective of what they call it, and irrespective of whether you and I, get to vote for this disposable figurehead, or that one).

          The UN system of governance reflects that.

          90

          • #
            gai

            Rereke,

            At this point most western first world countries are also run by unelected Bureaucracy.

            For example in the USA:
            The 2013 Federal Register. It contains over 80,000 pages of new rules, regulations, and notices all written and passed by unelected bureaucrats. The small stack of papers on top of the display are the laws passed by elected members of Congress.

            This undermining of the US Constitution can be traced back to 1933, FDR and his blasted New Deal. (Remember Pascal Lamy stated that the 1930s is when the decision was made to form ‘global governance’) I can not find the Supreme Court case, but around that time law making by a body that was NOT Congress was challenged. The Supreme Court stated was as long as the rulings were published in the Federal Register and there was a comment period open to the public, law making by unelected bureaucracy was ‘Constitutional’

            From WIKI

            …Beginning in 1933, President Franklin D. Roosevelt and the Democratic Congress enacted several statutes that created new federal agencies as part of the New Deal legislative plan…

            Because of rapid growth in the administrative regulation of private conduct, Roosevelt ordered several studies of administrative methods and conduct during the early part of his four-term presidency.[4] Based on one study, Roosevelt commented that the practice of creating administrative agencies with the authority to perform both legislative and judicial work “threatens to develop a fourth branch of government for which there is no sanction in the Constitution.”

            ….the Final Report of Attorney General’s Committee on Administrative Procedure, contains detailed information about the development and procedures of the federal agencies.[5]

            The Final Report defined a federal agency as a governmental unit with “the power to determine … private rights and obligations” by rulemaking or adjudication.[5] The report applied that definition to the largest units of the federal government, and identified “nine executive departments and eighteen independent agencies.”[5] If various subdivisions of the larger units were considered, the total number of federal agencies at that time increased to 51. In reviewing the history of federal agencies, the Final Report noted that almost all agencies had undergone changes in name and political function.

            Agencies are unique governmental bodies, capable of exercising powers characteristic of all three branches of the United States federal government: judicial, legislative and executive

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_Procedure_Act#Historical_background

            50

            • #
              gai

              FOUND IT!

              This is how the unelected Government by Bureaucracy was established in the USA. (Rest of comment is in moderation)

              How Was the Federal Register Established?
              The idea for a centralized publication system for executive branch documents began during the Great Depression, when Congress began enacting a host of legislation that gave executive branch agencies increased authority to regulate. With this flood of new regulations, it soon became apparent that, because there was no standardized repository, it was difficult for the public and federal agencies to know which regulations were effective and enforceable.

              This situation was dramatically highlighted when the Supreme Court decided a case involving an agency that tried to enforce a regulation that had actually been revoked by an executive order. No one—not the government, not the defendants, not the lower courts—was aware that the regulation had been eliminated.1 In response, Congress enacted the Federal Register Act (FRA) in July of 1935. The FRA created the Federal Register as the official daily publication for presidential documents and executive agency rule and notice documents and established a central location for filing documents for public inspection.

              The documents that the Federal Register Act requires agencies to publish in the Federal Register include:

              * executive orders and proclamations;

              * documents of general applicability and legal effect;

              * documents that impose a penalty;

              * any other documents that Congress requires.

              The act also requires that these documents are made available for public inspection at least one day before they are published in the Federal Register…..

              Proposed Rules
              This third section contains documents that announce possible changes to the CFR and solicit public comment on the proposal, such as notices of proposed rulemaking (NPRM) and preliminary rulemaking documents, including advance notices of proposed rulemaking and petitions for rulemaking…..

              http://www.federalregister.gov/uploads/2011/01/fr_101.pdf

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              • #
                Rereke Whakaaro

                Thanks Gai,

                The same sort of thing happens with Governments in the “Westminster Tradition”. There, Acts of Parliament often make provision for Regulations to be issued to administer the detail of the legislation. These Regulations, which are drafted by the Bureaucracy, often contain the real teeth of the law, with the Act itself being very bland.

                The process allows the State to literally steal from you, if they draft the power of confiscation into the regulations. But the Bureaucrats are faceless, and the Politicians deny all knowledge.

                People have been known to literally loose the family farm, over a technicality regarding animal husbandry.

                90

              • #
                gai

                David,
                Yes The Fiction and Tyranny of “Administrative Law” is a must read. I especially liked:

                ….An analysis by The Wall Street Journal of hundreds of decisions shows how much of a home-court advantage the SEC enjoys when it sends cases to its own judges rather than federal courts. That is a practice the agency increasingly follows, the Journal has found.

                The SEC won against 90% of defendants before its own judges in contested cases from October 2010 through March of this year, according to the Journal analysis. That was markedly higher than the 69% success the agency obtained against defendants in federal court over the same period, based on SEC data.

                ………..

                “In-House Judges Help SEC Rack Up Wins,” Jean Eaglesham, The Wall Street Journal, May 7, 2015, A1, color added

                Speaking of due process, what about MetLife’s argument that the [Financial Stability Oversight] council’s “unprecedented structure — which lodges investigative, prosecutorial and adjudicative functions in the same individuals — is incompatible” with the Constitution’s separation of powers?

                No worries, mate. “The alleged ‘blending’ of executive, legislative, and judicial funcitions of which MetLife complains is typical of administrative agencies,” says the government.

                As is quoted in that article, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison said:

                The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.

                This why Thomas Jefferson wrote in a letter to Tom Paine in 1789:

                “I consider trial by jury as the only anchor ever yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution.”

                Another article Right to Jury in Civil Cases shows just how much of a Tr..tor to the American people the Supreme Court has become.

                Without a strong, honest and just Supreme Court all brakes on the rush towards Tyranny are removed. When the Supreme Court repeatedly ruled against FDR’s expansion of the power of the federal government, President Roosevelt threatened to pack the Court to dilute the influence of the uncooperative “nine old men.” After that a majority of the justices took to the most expansive definition of the commerce clause like a drunk to drink. It has been downhill ever since as the Rule of Law has turned into the Rule of Bureaucrats.

                The 6th and 7th Amendments are very clear. Citizens have the right to a trial by jury.

                “In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed…”
                Amendment VI

                ……………..

                “In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved….”
                Amendment VII

                The Supreme Court has, however, arrived at a more limited interpretation. It applies the amendment’s guarantee to the kinds of cases that “existed under the English common law when the amendment was adopted….

                The right to trial by jury is not constitutionally guaranteed in certain classes of civil cases that are concededly “suits at common law,” particularly when “public” or governmental rights are at issue and if one cannot find eighteenth-century precedent for jury participation in those cases.[And yet isn't that exactly where a jury trial is most important to prevent abuse of 'governmental rights' -- Since when does the government HAVE RIGHTS separate from the citizens???]

                In contrast to the near-universal support for the civil jury trial in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, modern jurists consider civil jury trial neither “implicit in the concept of ordered liberty,” Palko v. State of Connecticut (1937), nor “fundamental to the American scheme of justice,” Duncan v. Louisiana (1968)…..

                50

            • #
              David Maddison

              There is also this 1967 case. ABBOTT LABORATORIES et al., Petitioners, v. John W. GARDNER, Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare et al. https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/387/136

              Also interesting comments at: http://www.friesian.com/fiction.htm

              40

    • #
      diogenese2

      Ross, Andy; before going their you should do a we bit of research.

      http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49c3646c11.html

      There are currently about 60m persons currently displaced from their homes, 38m within their own countries. The UNHCR manages some 13m outside their own borders. Most of these are poor and destitute. The current crisis in Europe is a more recent phenomenom.

      80

      • #
        diogenese2

        Sorry posted incomplete;

        Europe is now facing the problem it hasn’t seen since 1946, masses of people with some means (enough to pay the smugglers)
        who are educated and articulate fleeing conflict which threatens their lives. They also know that actions are do-able and salvation awaits.

        http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=85728

        But see tomomason #5 ; the last thing the EU wants is UN involvement in their current problem. A whole mass of non-climate refugees demonstrating in Paris might rather spoil he party.

        200

        • #
          Ross

          diogenese2

          Recently, Jo mentioned Ban Ki-Moon is planning to drag all the major leaders of the world to a pre Paris meeting in New York in Sept/Oct. Why can’t he get all the leaders of the countries involved in the migrant/refugee problem together in Europe, right now?

          What is more important ??

          230

          • #
            diogenese2

            Ross: because it is a real and wicked problem. Do you actually believe that “world leaders” are in the least
            bit capable of a solution? Do you think any would attend such a meeting without the resolution being agreed in advance? “climate change” is only an imagined problem, so the fact that 23 years of negotiation has produced zero outcome – the same issues are debated as in 1992 – ought to give a clue as to rate of progress such meetings would bring to the crisis of displaced persons after all, less that 1% of the worlds population.
            Last year the NET immigration into the UK was 330K (50% EU citizens & 50% from outside – only 33k claimed asylum (10%)and we are now talking about possibly taking 5k of those currently encamped in Turkey. There are this number camped at Calais NOW and perhaps 10 times that on the road in Europe.
            Calling in the UN is the worst option.

            130

            • #
              Ross

              I don’t think we are in disagreement on the scale and importance of the issue.
              What I’m really trying to point out is how useless the UN are and how their priorities are completely wrong. We agree that AGW is a non issue but the UN are putting huge resources into it at the expense of areas which could positively affect the underlying issues resulting in the migrant/ refugee problem.

              160

              • #
                bobl

                Because at the end of this little rainbow is transfer of indulgences from various ETS schemes direct to the UN by treaty. This is about billions of dollars to fund the UN not the temperature in 2100.

                150

              • #
                Ross

                Well here is the issue in a nutshell. How can the UN push for more money for climate change issues when they cannot fund their humanitarian work. Or will they twist it so the AGW money goes towards the humanitarian work as bobl indicates.

                http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/06/refugee-crisis-un-agencies-broke-failing

                10

              • #
                Rereke Whakaaro

                Or will they twist it so the AGW money goes towards the humanitarian work …?

                No, because it will go to hiring more bureaucrats, because everybody in the UN is always 120% occupied on their current portfolios.

                In the end, civilisation will collapse, because everybody will be engaged in writing memos to everybody else, asking who it is they should be writing memos to, to get the light in their office fixed.

                80

        • #
          thojak

          Northern Europe, especially Germany + the Scandinavian countries, especially Sweden, is at the moment totally flooded with “refugees” (~ 90% of which are NOT ‘war refugees’ acc. the UNHCR definition), when coming to Sweden, the last thing they do is to throw away all ID-papers, passport etc. Sweden takes on appr. 4x the number “refugees” per capita vs. Germany…

          How many “refugees” are the very rich Gulf States accepting? Last figure I saw, Saudi Arabia had ‘accepted’ a total of 138x in 2013/-14! ‘Grand’ performance from a neighbour to Syria, isn’t it???

          I fear massive problems coming up in the near future and this together with the total stupidity of the hoax of “Climate Change”, well… Go figure !

          Brgds from Sweden
          /TJ

          240

        • #
          gai

          I was thinking the same thing. The security risk is going to be sky high.

          Gee, I wonder if the Paris police will actually be armed this time or Police Officers [will be] Forced to Flee.

          Of course we all know the answer. After all security for our ‘Masters’ is always much higher than it is for us.

          100

          • #
            AndyG55

            Will ISIS have enough people in position by December..

            I think Paris this December is somewhere that a sane person should avoid like the plague…

            100

            • #
              Rereke Whakaaro

              Hey don’t leave me out … insane people are still people too.

              50

              • #
                gai

                AHHHHhhh, So Rereke Whakaaro does mean bizarre thought (via Google Translate)

                Thanks for the laugh, and you are correct anyone with an ounce of self preservation instinct would not be anywhere near Paris in December whether they are sane or not.

                30

    • #
      KinkyKeith

      Yes Yes Yes yEs

      80

    • #
      Bill

      Agreed, it’s disgusting. The one thing that the UN was supposed to be created for – humanitarian matters- is ignored in favour of a myth that lines the pockets of the manipulators. I may puke.

      161

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        The UN was primarily supposed to prevent war, and addressing humanitarian matters was originally seen as an important adjunct means to an end, in that regard.

        But both mandates have spectacularly failed, and so the UN has had to create another bogyman, in the form of climate change, that it can succeed in preventing (because they know that it is not there anyway), thus justifying their continuing existance. Who knows, if they can buy enough time (with our money), they might be able to find a real problem they can solve. But I doubt it.

        90

        • #
          Konrad

          The UN were planning to manufacture a “freshwater crisis”, but technical solutions are too easy and none of them require redistribution of wealth under a framework of socialist global governance.

          If a new crisis doesn’t involve a guaranteed income for the UN from extra-sovereign taxation, the UN just isn’t interested.

          The global warming hoax is looking more and more like a bust, so the UN will probably fall back on their old staple of creating and exacerbating humanitarian crises, then demanding money to “help”.

          61

  • #
    craig

    As first world economies continue to struggle with reduced revenue opportunities and increased debt and deficit in part due to a burgeoning welfare bill that doesn’t look to be slowing down anytime soon, I’d be telling those third world economy’s ‘take or leave it, this is what your getting and if you don’t like it, you can bite my ass’.

    I mean, really, is ANY first world country going to downgrade their lifestyle to please another nation of no consequence?

    160

  • #
    tom0mason

    The UN does have the ultimate threats to any country that refuses to toe the line.
    “Do as we want or, we’ll have more UN conferences in your country.”
    or worse…
    “Do as we want or, we send the Peace-Keepers* in!”

    *Note that no country has successfully survived this UN weapon of mass desorganization unscathed.

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    • #
      tom0mason

      Dear me, please let me try again…

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      The UN does have the ultimate threats to any country that refuses to toe the line.
      “Do as we want or, we’ll have more UN conferences in your country.”
      or worse…
      “Do as we want or, we’ll send in the Peace-Keepers*!”

      *Note that no country has successfully survived this UN weapon of mass disorganization unscathed.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      132

    • #
      Bill

      Note that the UN has limited power and no military of its own. Any attempt to deploy “peacekeepers” (a liberal myth) without the consent of the country involved is an act of war under international law and things like the NATO treaty will kick in with far more military power than the UN can muster. Can you imagine the UN trying to send unarmed african troops into Russia?

      60

      • #
        Kevin Lohse

        Unfortunately, yes, I can.

        100

      • #
        tom0mason

        Details, details, Bill.
        Do you think the policy wonks of the UN can not find a rule avoiding strategy if they need to?
        If you don’t, IMO, you underestimate the UN’s hoard of bureaucrats and direct action NGOs, spurred on by the elists and their sock puppet ‘climate scientists™’ syren calls.

        50

        • #
          Bill

          I’ve worn the blue beret many times, with rules of engagement where we were forced to say “please stop shooting or I’ll say please again”. That led to Rwanda. At least in Afghanistand we were able to do our jobs without the UN’s “help”. The UN is an abject failure and I am ashamed to say that Canada helped create that disfunctional body.

          40

          • #
            tom0mason

            I too have worked along side the Blue berets, or as I called them then ‘body counters’.
            IMO ‘Peacekeeper’ is a UN term for attrocity witnesses nothing more, as peace-keepers they are worthless. But hey, that’s how they were set-up.

            40

          • #
            clive

            The UN have had 70 odd years to do their job and failed miserably.How much longer do we have to wait?

            20

        • #

          If you don’t want something done, give it to the UN to be done.

          They became mostly-useless by the mid-1960′s. Should have been put down at the time.

          30

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        They don’t have to be deployed to a country. It is sufficient for them to be deployed to a neighbouring country, where they can stand along the boarder and shout rude names in multiple languages.

        20

  • #
    AndyG55

    hmmmm.. Just got ReachTel polled.

    This is all push-button response to a recorded questionnaire particularly about Newcastle electorate, and hence the coal industry weight heavily.. from a “progressive” perspective of course..

    I now know that ReachTel is quite left-wing biased.

    Couple of very leading questions … but I think I got around them. ;-)

    One particularly I would have liked to ask about…

    Something like… “Do you think that subsidies currently paid to the coal industry should be redirected to health, education etc…?

    I was thinking…..What subsidies are they talking about?

    331

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Maybe they mean the subsidies that are tax breaks to an industry that props up a country that has turned it’s back on manufacturing with the short sighted view of quick global profiteering without a thought for the security of future generations.

      I notice the left gladly accepting free money for their activist organizations provided by the evil polluting energy industry.

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      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        Indeed they do. Worse, they believe the lie.

        Around 30 years ago Australia increased importation of compound fertilisers. Local manufacturers pressured the Hawke government to protect them against this importation, and a tariff was applied.

        The National Farmers Federation protested successfully that the tariff was not warranted, and it was withdrawn. That night the ABC 7 o’clock news opened with the headline: “The federal government today caved in to National Farmers’ Federation demands for a subsidy on imported fertiliser”. Shocked by this outrageous libelling of farmers, I immediately rang ABCTV News and protested that this was not a subsidy at all, but the withdrawal of a tariff. The reply I got: “What’s the difference?”

        I was stunned. Long distance telephone calls were in those days too expensive for me to afford the time to educate a man who probably already had a degree by telephone, so I just hung up and wore the damage. That was in the early days of the hijacking of the ABC by Marxists.

        180

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Andy, that is actually two independent questions: a) should money be put aside for health and education, b) should that money come from the coal industry.

      Kindergarten propaganda. Is ReachTel an Australasian company? If so, you will find that there will be a Government ethics body, that you can complain to.

      40

    • #
      Konrad

      Andy,
      I believe they may be intentionally repeating the lie that tax deductions for off-road use of diesel fuel is a “subsidy”.

      Welcome to “push-polling” ;-)

      70

  • #
    Yonniestone

    So with the fate of the world in our hands the only ‘socially responsible’ action to take would be video conferencing as none of the elites would want to look hypocritical to the rest of us?……

    Wouldn’t that be some grubby viewing? it’d make Grindr look like Kimingo.

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    Dennis

    I repeat: Last Tango In Paris

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    pat

    I have posted link to the only other MSM reference to the Liberal CAGW sceptics at the Party Conference in Tasmania at the end of the Unthreaded thread, plus some other stuff about how the rest of the MSM has not covered the matter at all, thus muzzling CAGW sceptics as usual.

    a look at the co-chairs who will now be in charge of paring & preparing the Paris document!

    LinkedIn: Daniel Reifsnyder
    Co-Chair, UNFCCC Climate Negotiations, and University of Virginia Visiting Scholar
    Summary: Multilateral and bilateral negotiations on environment and natural resource issues (global climate change, protection of the stratospheric ozone layer, international chemicals management, access to clean water and sanitation, fisheries, forest, and wildlife conservation, protection of coral reefs) and science and technology cooperation (including on scientific assessment, renewable energy, Earth observations, protection of intellectual property rights); design and launch of start-ups (initiatives, programs, activities on — for example — greenhouse gas inventories, carbon capture and storage, methane recapture, hydrogen R&D,); fund raising, money management, team building and policy/trend analysis…
    Deputy Assistant Secretary for Environment and Sustainable Development
    U.S. Department of State
    March 2006 – October 2012
    Director, Office of Global Change
    U.S. Department of State
    October 1989 – July 1999
    Senior Foreign Affairs Policy Coordinator
    U.S. Department of Commerce, NOAA
    January 1977 – March 1984…
    Additional Honors & Awards
    Business Council for Sustainable Energy Distinguished Leadership Award, 2012; Presidential Meritorious Executive, 2005 & 2011; EPA Ozone Protection Award, 2009; Department of State Superior Honor Award (multiple); Department of State Meritorious Honor Award.
    https://www.linkedin.com/pub/daniel-a-reifsnyder/6/64a/4b2

    Reifsnyder’s Education is also worth noting.

    a very cosy relationship!

    11 May: NPR: Neil Greenfield Boyce: Two Guys In Paris Aim To Charm The World Into Climate Action
    “It’s kind of like taking 196 cats and trying to get them all to move in the same direction,” explains Daniel Reifsnyder, whose normal job is being deputy assistant secretary for environment at the U.S. Department of State…
    The other co-chair is an ambassador from Algeria named Ahmed Djoghlaf, who says he’s only doing this “thanks to Dan” — because Djoghlaf probably wouldn’t have agreed to lead these negotiations with anyone else…
    “The chemistry and working relationship between two to guide a process is very important,” explains Djoghlaf. “It’s like you have a co-pilot, not a pilot. So if you don’t get along, the plane can collapse, and you can have a crash.”
    “They say that we’re married this year, Ahmed and I,” adds Reifsnyder. “It probably feels like that to our spouses, you know, because we’re probably with each other more often than with them.”
    If this is a kind of year-long marriage, it’s really an arranged marriage. The reason it takes two people to chair these talks, instead of just one person, is that the industrialized world and the developing world don’t trust each other. In general, rich nations have wanted to curb emissions, while poor nations have worried about restrictions that might limit economic growth. So to ensure fairness in this process, there’s one chair from the U.S. and one from Algeria — countries that usually are in opposing groups…
    Actually, what drives them is a sense of mission. “We only have one planet, you know,” says Reifsnyder. “We have to protect it.”
    These guys can’t remember exactly when they first met — they say it must have been during some of the very first climate negotiations, about 25 years ago. Other negotiators describe them as seasoned professionals…
    Djoghlaf describes his partner as a walking encyclopedia of climate change. “I am relying entirely on him on the substance — on the knowledge of the issues,” says Djoghlaf, “and the issues are extremely complicated.”
    In return, Reifsnyder says Djoghlaf is “the quintessential diplomat. He is extremely gifted and smooth with people.”
    “This is what Dan thinks, but this is not true,” says Djoghlaf, laughing…
    http://www.npr.org/2015/05/11/404200241/two-guys-in-paris-aim-to-charm-the-world-into-climate-action

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      diogenese2

      Pat – a brilliant find. In one interview the whole essence of the issue is revealed.
      “… the industrial world and the developing world don’t trust each other. the rich nations want to curb emissions whilst poor nations worry about restrictions which might limit economic growth.”
      That is -the poor want to industrialize and become rich whilst the rich nations fear the competition for resources and market shares – that is their wealth. It is nothing to do with climate and the environment – and they know it. All that science we argue about is an irrelevant side issue, undiscussed now in 20 COPs.
      Djoghlaf : “I am relying entirely on him (Reifsnyder , the walking encyclopaedia on climate change)on the substance – on the knowledge of the issues”. Says it all really – they are both lawyers!
      Read Pat’s link , it contains a succinct history of the UNFCCC.
      Reifsnyder’s lighthearted remarks about their “marriage” might have been injudicious considering Djoghlaf is a muslim. I trust no visit to Iran or contact with IS is planned.
      The last remark (in the referred article) beautifully sums up for Jo the essence of these negotiations.
      “people talk about how you spend your years negotiating the shape of the table – well the shape of the table can be very important”.
      In Britain Arthur, the Once and Future King, cracked that one two and a half millennia ago.

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    Neville

    Just a pity the whole thing is a total fraud and con.
    There is nothing unprecedented or unusual about the climate since 1950 at all.
    SLR not unusual, glacier retreat actually slowed since 1950, deaths from extreme events have dropped 97% since the 1920s, polar bear populations have boomed by 400% since 1950 and the world has warmed just 0.8C since 1850, ( HAD 4 )and there has been zero warming for 18.5 years according to UAH V 6. Just a huge fraud and con to deceive the people.

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    Mick In The Hills

    Good news on the local front though.

    Two leading AGW proponents have converted to the sceptic view, it seems:

    Barrie Cassidy: I just wondered where climate change will be, Lenore, 20 years from now.

    Lenore Taylor: I’m thinking 20 years from now we’ll look back on the policy-making at the moment and shake our heads and wonder: “What the hell they were thinking?”

    I am interpreting this exchange correctly, aren’t I?

    They do mean that people in 20 years time will recognise how utterly DUMB the UN’s attempts to control the global climate were?

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      Dariusz

      In 20 years time I want these people to be tried for crimes against humanity. They won,t hide in the Cambodian jungles, South America, Saudi Arabia or the old Soviet Union.
      what about hippies that caused the withdrawal of the US from Vietnam? I hold them responsible for the killing fields, hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese drowned escaping communist Vietnam. I want Obama to be tried for the pre-mature withdrawal from the Middle East and causing the rise of IS and wave of refugees now. I want Hillary Clinton and others to be tried for the removal of Kadafi and not supporting Syria in their fight against IS. In 5 years not only there won,t be any normal people in Syria, but any remnants of ancient cultures will be completely destroyed. Where are the hundreds of thousands of German,s that supported ulricha meinhoff and the red brigades?
      Is this is the best we can hope for, some footnote on Cassidy,s leftie TV show that we all pay for?

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    pat

    an RTCC article which seems to have been pulled when Algerian Ahmed Djoghlaf was named with Reifsnyder as controllers of the Paris document:

    5 Sept: Algeria targets 7-22% greenhouse gas emissions cut by 2030
    NEWS: North African oil-producing state highlights vulnerability to global warming and solar prospects in submission to UN climate deal
    http://www.rtcc.org/2015/09/04/algeria-targets-7-22-greenhouse-gas-emissions-cut-by-2030/

    (excerpted from cached version) This could increase to 22% ***with international support, the oil-producing state said in its contribution to a UN climate deal…
    Stressing its limited contribution to historic emissions and severe climate impacts already in evidence, the document called for “international solidarity”.
    Counting on the oil and gas sector for around 35% of its GDP, Algeria said the pledge took into account the impact of recent low oil prices on its finances…
    Algeria aims to generate 27% of electricity from solar and other renewable sources by 2030…

    sounds like Algeria is expecting plenty of “international support”/dollars!

    the full UNFCCC Calendar, not including Ban Ki-moon’s proposed meeting of 40 invited leaders in New York, on Sept 27, the day before the UN General Assembly meets.
    http://unfccc.int/meetings/unfccc_calendar/items/2655.php

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      Bulldust

      I read a piece in Energy News (we get that as a work subscription) today. The bit that stood out for me was the commentary about a report from GlobalData about nuclear power in Germany. Here is the paragraph in question:

      Germany’s goal to phase out nuclear in favour of renewables has proven an expensive one, with its government’s subsidies to wind, solar and other renewable energy sources growing to Euro 20 billion a year (just over $A32 billion at the current exchange rate) since 1991, when Germany first began the financial support.

      Twenty billion Euros … a year … and that will keep growing presumably if they intend to phase out more nuclear.

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    pat

    not UNRELATED.

    4 Sept: NYT: AP: UN Star-Studded Media Blitz to Promote New Development Goals
    UNITED NATIONS — The United Nations is launching a global campaign with a media blitz and an array of stars from Beyonce to Usain Bolt to spread news to everyone in the world about its new goals to eradicate poverty, fight inequality and combat climate change.
    The campaign is scheduled to begin on Sept. 25 when world leaders are expected to adopt the 17 goals at a U.N. General Assembly summit…
    Film writer and director Richard Curtis, who is leading the campaign, told a news conference Thursday that he wants to make these new goals “much more famous and much more well-known” than the eight U.N. Millennium Development Goals…
    The new goals, which have 169 specific targets, range from ending poverty “in all its forms everywhere” to ensuring quality education and affordable and reliable energy, and protecting the environment. They are and will remain officially called the Sustainable Development Goals, or SDGs, which one journalist at the press conference called an “ugly and horrible name.”…
    Curtis said the campaign — with the motto Tell Everyone — tries to make the complicated new goals “fun, bright, entertaining, interesting” to get the world’s attention…
    Among the highlights are the first-ever global cinema ad, narrated by actor Liam Neeson; a seven-day pop-up global radio station on the goals streaming online, with an original soundtrack composition by Peter Gabriel; 101,000 billboards from New York’s Times Square to Piccadilly Circus in London and The Tower in Kuala Lumpur; and a song to inspire African youth by the continent’s top artists.
    Curtis said the world’s top digital giants including Google, YouTube, Wikipedia, Yahoo and Tumblr will be pushing the goals online. A festival in New York’s Central Park on Sept. 26 to promote the goals will be headlined by Ed Sheeran, Beyonce, Coldplay and Pearl Jam. And people can join sports stars like Gareth Bale and Gary Linekar in a game called Dizzy Goal and add their voice to Bill and Melinda Gates, Meryl Streep, One Direction and many others, all online to support Global Goals.
    http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/09/04/world/ap-un-united-nations-global-goals-campaign.html?_r=0

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    Robber

    If only the UN and all those diplomats from 60 countries could focus their efforts on the crisis in Syria and Iraq, and the focus on clean water for those in need.
    But no, it’s far more stimulating to discuss some possible future global warming, or possibly global cooling, that may result in some changes to the climate in 100 years.
    Do they realize how stupid they look?

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    manalive

    The French hosts have moved aggressively to bridge that gap …

    “… 407 TWh (75%) out of the country’s total production of 541 TWh of electricity was from fission-electric power stations, the highest percentage in the world … as of 2012, France’s electricity price to household customers is the seventh-cheapest amongst the 27 members of the European Union, and also the seventh-cheapest to industrial consumers …” (Wiki).
    France already enjoys a considerable comparative economic advantage, any international agreement further limiting competitor nations’ CO2 emissions will only enhance their position
    They have nothing to lose and a great deal to gain.

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      Robert O

      The French have a lot to thank General de Gaulle for including their nuclear programme, but nowadays there isn’t much strong leadership anywhere and our leaders are mainly second or third grade.

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        gai

        That is because our leaders are puppets. I think that is becoming more and more clear, especially after Obama.

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          Bill

          And that is the road the Liberal Party of Canada wants to embark on with young justin…Mulcair is even worse but at least he’s an “honest crook” in the pockets of the big 3 unions.

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    William Astley

    The cult of CAGW members, live and think in ‘La La land’, where there is unlimited public money to spend, were everyone has a cushy advocate or a cushy government job, and where goods, food, and services appear out of thin air. In La La land public knowledge of issues is limited to La La land approved nonsense books and La La Land approved nonsense new programs. The primary purpose of the La La land movers and shakers is to discuss/advocate/push spending more and more public money that does not exist on crises that do not exist and have been created to justify the need for the La La land movers and shakers.

    La La Land
    to think that things that are completely impossible might happen, rather than understanding how things really are:
    1. (Placename) a nickname for Los Angeles
    2. (not capitals) a place that is remote from reality

    Those that live in La La land advocate greater and greater public debt. In La La land governments when can no longer borrow they advocate electronic creation of more money (quantitative easing). The la la land team have published books such as does ‘Debt Matter’? Let’s see ask a young person who has no job or is so called under employed (working two minimum wage jobs in the ‘service’ section’) and is deeply in debt due to education costs. Let’s see ask someone in Greece or Japan where they have reached the end of the road for government borrowing.

    Meanwhile back in real world where the rest of the world lives.

    The solar cycle has been interrupted. There is now astonishing quarter by quarter changes of almost all solar parameters. We are going to experience abrupt Dansgaard-Oeschger cooling. The warming due to a doubling of atmospheric CO2 is 0.2 to 0.1C with feedbacks, not 1.5C without feedbacks.

    All of developed countries are deeply in debt. They have run out of public money to spend on everything (unending list of great things for more government spending, number one is more government ‘jobs’ and higher salaries and more benefits for government employees, end of road policy road see Soviet union) health care, roads, infrastructure, parks, education, and so on.

    The cult of CAGW are trying to force the developed countries to spend trillions of dollars (funds that we do not have) on green scams that do not work, do not significantly reduce CO2 emissions but do triple the cost of electricity. All the pain for no gain.

    It is pathetic that the cult of CAGW and the many green leaches are pushing green scams that do not work for basic engineering and economic reasons.

    beyond astronomical

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/obamas-renewable-energy-fantasy-1436104555

    Recently Bill Gates explained in an interview with the Financial Times why current renewables are dead-end technologies. They are unreliable. Battery storage is inadequate. Wind and solar output depends on the weather. The cost of decarbonization using today’s technology (William: Solar and wind power rather than nuclear) is “beyond astronomical,” Mr. Gates concluded.

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/11/22/shocker-top-google-engineers-say-renewable-energy-simply-wont-work/

    The key problem appears to be that the cost of manufacturing the components of the renewable power facilities is far too close to the total recoverable energy – the facilities never, or just barely, produce enough energy to balance the budget of what was consumed in their construction. This leads to a runaway cycle of constructing more and more renewable plants simply to produce the energy required to manufacture and maintain renewable energy plants – an obvious practical absurdity.
    A research effort by Google corporation to make renewable energy viable has been a complete failure, according to the scientists who led the programme. After 4 years of effort, their conclusion is that renewable energy “simply won’t work”.

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      They will be spending absolutely trillions on renewables, (and here this is just for wind and solar, and does not include the far and away renewable leader, Hydro) the best case scenario has them reaching 3.7% of the World’s power needs by 2050.

      Now, while that’s puzzling, as it is already around that number now, it screams out something to me, and that is no matter how much money they throw at it, all those Countries which are still developing will be installing plants which rely on the two major fossil fuels, coal especially, and to a lesser extent, Natural Gas.

      When Countries want REAL electrical power, there IS only one solution.

      Those already developed Countries can just cut their own throats, but with so many Natural Gas fired plants going ahead in the U.S. over the last eight to ten years, those plants will have a long life, and there’s no way known that many of them will be forced to close down. Too much political clout there.

      Once those developed countries see that those still developing countries are just totally ignoring the UN and building coal fired plants hand over fist, you just wait and see what gets said.

      If it’s okay for them, then it’s good enough for us.

      As someone once said ….. all this will pass.

      Wait until the first of those wind plants start failing in the not too distant future, and people start wondering why. The truth will come out.

      Tony.

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      Andrew McRae

      We are going to experience abrupt Dansgaard-Oeschger cooling.

      UAH Global Satellite Tropical Lower Troposphere temperature, v6.0 beta3
      Linear trend from Jan 2002 to July 2015: -0.021°/decade

      That’s 13.5 years of very slight Global Cooling at the moment. Could change back to Hiatus or Warming by the end of the year. We need another 5.5 years to see predictions of the solar activity connection with climate borne out by measurement.

      This is why the furtive UN negotiations over the next 4 weeks are critical to the governing class. They have to legislate the world fossil fuel taxes before the governed figure out that the cooling has started already and there won’t be any warming of the ten year average above 2011 levels for over 120 years. The priority is tax first, understand the climate later.

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        gai

        For us peasants and serfs, the questions are:

        1. How cold is it going to get?

        2. How short is the food supply going to be?

        I was following the developments affecting the food supply long before I started following CAGW. The government positions on both issues is enough to give a sane person nightmares. Both positions are the same. Maximum profit and maximum misery/destruction for the ordinary people.

        Want food Security? Bring Back a National Grain Reserve

        The Race for the World’s Farmland

        How Goldman Sachs Created the Food Crisis

        That is just the tip of the iceberg and does not get into the WTO Agreement on Agriculture, seed patents, banning seed saving, patenting of Animals (There has been an international group for at least a decade.) Stealing of genetics….

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          Bill

          Yes. And there is an excellent series of TED-Talks on food security that point out the green nuts being completely against people having enough food to survive unless they are the well off upper class westerners…. makes you think.

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    Neville

    The August 2015 UAH V 6 update is 0.1c higher than July. July 0.18c and August 0.28c.
    The NH is the only region lower than the Jan number.
    The tropics are much higher than Jan because of the el nino effect.

    http://www.drroyspencer.com/2015/09/uah-v6-0-global-temperature-update-for-aug-2015-0-28-c/

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    pat

    ***the absolute arrogance of Thompson & the BBC is breath-taking:

    6 Sept: UK Daily Mail: David Rose: Met Office boss slams Emma Thompson and the BBC for ‘scaremongering’ with claim that the world’s temperature will rise by 4C by 2030
    In a BBC interview, Emma Thompson said the world would be 4C hotter by 2030 if Shell drills for oil in the Arctic
    Newsnight presenter Emily Maitlis did not challenge the actress
    Top climate scientist has accused actress and BBC of ‘scaremongering’
    Richard Betts, head of climate impacts research at the Met Office and a professor at Exeter University, launched his attack on Twitter about an interview Ms Thompson gave to Newsnight presenter Emily Maitlis last Wednesday.
    He followed it up with a longer critique – an extract of which this newspaper publishes today – on the website of HELIX, a prestigious EU-wide climate research programme which he also directs…
    Other scientists were equally critical. Dr Ed Hawkins, at Reading University, told this newspaper: ‘Climate change poses substantial risks to humans and ecosystems, but what Emma Thompson said about the timescales of predicted warming was inaccurate.’…
    ***Ms Thompson hit back yesterday, saying: ‘I’d like to say to him [Richard Betts]: Are you insane, have you been to the Arctic, have you seen the state of the glaciers? I’ve talked to the experts… this is not scaremongering.’
    ***A BBC spokeswoman said: ‘In a longer interview Emily would have pressed Thompson to justify her assertion.’ She refused to say whether the BBC would be correcting Ms Thompson’s statement.
    READ ON: Comment by Professor Richard Betts, Met Office head of climate impacts research…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3223826/Met-Office-boss-slams-Emma-Thompson-BBC-scaremongering-claim-world-s-temperature-rise-4C-2030.html

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      diogenese2

      Last year she went to the arctic with Greenpeace at the end of the melt season, found some ice had melted and was SURPRISED.
      says it all really. If you google “Emma Thompson arctic” you can watch her video, but not after eating.
      A case study in gullibility.

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        Kevin Lohse

        Emma actually called Richard Betts, “Insane” classic case of pot-and-kettle.

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          AndyG55

          If you read carefully, Betts is trying to make a link between the current refugee issue and climate change.

          The guy truly is INSANE…..

          On the other hand, Thompson is just an ignorant airhead. !

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    dennisambler

    I wouldn’t wish it upon the people of Paris, but it would surely be blamed on CO2 if there were ever a modern day repeat.

    https://parisianfields.wordpress.com/2013/12/08/remembering-the-great-paris-flood-of-1910/

    “The Gare d’Orsay had been built as part of the preparations for the International Exposition of 1900. The world famous Paris Métro was also inaugurated to celebrate the Exposition of 1900. And it, too, succumbed to the flood.”

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    Senex

    Bonn, Lima, New York, Paris.. I hope they are buying carbon offset credits for all of those flights!

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    Mike

    ‘Polarisation’. That is the aim in my opinion. Left and right, north and south. It is all about polarisation.

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    PiperPaul

    Cargo cult climate change theatre (cartoon?).

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    Ruairi

    On climate they groan and they gripe,
    To give Paris the maximum hype,
    Of great expectations,
    From the United Nations,
    Which skeptics know well is more tripe.

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  • #

    If the green gang of thugs were worried about contradictions they would have stopped themselves a long time ago. Remember that the foundation of what passes for their thinking was first put forth by Kant then Hegel” and then picked up by Marx. It was followed by the USSR and today by academia, the green horde, and our ever loving big brother governments. They will NOT stop until they are stopped by an outside overwhelming force.

    Fundamentally, the position held is that reality is not real and even if it were, man cannot know it. Significant others have told them the only thing that does exist is contradictions. The contradictions produce a new existence which itself is a contradiction further producing a still newer existence recursively forever.

    They know that while they can’t know the truth, the next person can. That next person knows he can’t know the truth but believes the next person can. Thus this knowledge that they can’t know becomes a summation of zeros as it swoops through the collective. No one knows anything but the collective knows all. To a person, they know this and to prove it, they will educate you, propagandize you, imprison you, and kill you if you don’t accept it as the truth.

    This is why the “science” is settled, that there is no further need for debate, and that the collective demands that you be totally sacrificed to save what doesn’t need saving, the earth. According to them the fact that this is a contradiction proves it is true.

    These creatures cannot be reasoned with. Facts and evidence is irrelevant to them. No matter how many nor how good a demonstration you have that shows they are wrong has no meaning to them. Especially, the chaos, suffering, poverty, destruction, and death that results from their policies is of no consequence to them. It is simply the working of a contradiction in the process of making a new existence.

    They are anti-life, anti-mind, and anti-man to the core. They work to destroy the good BECAUSE it is good.

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      gai

      The Philosophy Of Karl Marx explains why objective reality and the scientific method is ignored in favor of CONSENSUS.

      …. The one universal phenomenon is change, and the only universal form of this phenomenon is its complete abstraction. Thus, Hegel accepted as real only that which existed in the mind. Objective phenomena and events were of no consequence; only the conceptions of them possessed by human minds were real. Ideas, not objects, were the stuff of which the universe was made…..

      The fundamental idea of change occurring as a synthesis of opposing forces Marx accepted as the germ of the universal truth that he, as a philosopher, sought….

      To Marx the thing the mind perceived was realty in itself. Objective existence was exterior to the mind of man, and ideas were the reflections of those exterior phenomena…. That this realism constituted a vital modification of the Hegelian system is attested by the numerous clashes Marx had with the followers of the more purely idealistic Hegel. Whereas the latter never departed from the realm of mental images, Marx set out to study the operation of this (to him) universal truth in the everyday events of the world of human affairs…

      The Marxian dialectic is a universal explanation in two senses. First, it constitutes a philosophical explanation of all categories of realistic phenomena. It could be applied to physical, chemical, astronomical, mathematical, geological, and all other phenomena as a universal explanation of what exists and is occurring in the universe. Second, it includes the mind of man as a part of the universe within which change through thesis, antithesis, and synthesis constitutes the never-ending creative process. Nothing within the dialectic itself excludes any category of phenomena from its scope, nor does anything in it give special place to any particular type of phenomena as occupying a more creative or deterministic position than any other….

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        Greg Cavanagh

        “Brave New World” has never held such depth of meaning for me as it does now, thanks Lionell and gai.

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    Doug Proctor

    Will the Gore Effect step up in Paris this December? What an awkward situation if it does!
    The developed West is not going to cough up large amounts of money to the lesser developed world. History would have to be reversed and economic self-interest denied. I expect Paris to produce an epistle that supports everyone doing what he wants to do in his own country, with the moral support of the others, while leaving the weak and corrupt to drift as they will.

    At any rate, 5 years will pass before substantial change can be expected. If temperatures have not rocketed, the CAGW movement will have morphed into a pure ideological cause. Economics will be important again but more importantly the Causes will again be local.

    It will be a long time before we stop hearing the extreme foolishness of today.

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      gai

      Doug, the exercise was never about “The developed West coughing up large amounts of money to the lesser developed world.” It is all about funding the UN with the World Bank getting a healthy slice of the pie.

      Remember the UN oil for Food Scandal that had Maurice Strong Hightailing it for China to avoid nasty questions.

      Any money/aid that actually trickles down to the poor will be by mistake.

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    Roy Hogue

    It seems quite clear that there is panic in the global warming camp. Do they see their much coveted binding agreement slipping out of their hands? Or are they simply trying to speed up such an agreement by some subterfuge or application of political force because they really do fear (the so far absent) global warming? Or is it that they see their power grab slipping away?

    From where I sit the answer to the first and third questions look like yes, to the second question, no.

    Obviously I could be wrong. But the progressive left in general appears to be in panic mode, witness the current presidential race in the U.S., with the left’s obvious first choice, Hilary Clinton, going ever more rapidly down the political drain while a bombastic, angry egomaniac, Donald Trump, is succeeding by telling conservative voters exactly what he knows they want to hear to assuage their anger over the direction of the country. By the way, he’s doing exactly what Obama did to get the left handed voters on his side in 2008 and again in 2012. Sauce for the goose and all that… …and very bad for the country and the world.

    Clearly the left — call them what you prefer — is in a panic. I look for very dangerous times leading up to Paris and leading up to the presidential election in November, 2016. They will get more and more bold, probably also reckless and do all they can to win what they want by almost any means.

    We need none of this, of course. The cool calm voice of Ben Carson, speaking wisdom instead of anger has begun to put him equal with Trump in the polls. I know not what kind of president either man will make. But I know this — no president can do what Obama, Clinton and Trump have promised. Real problem solving takes time, not rash angry statements. It takes getting the people behind you, not just voicing support but signing on to do the hard work. Whoever wins the White House in 2016 will need to be a real leader who can inspire the kind of confidence that Ronald Reagan could, someone who can mobilize people to follow his leadership with actions, not just words. Is Ben Carson that leader? I don’t know but I see no other like him on the horizon.

    The UN is dangerous as I’ve said many times. The worst of the problem comes directly from that big headquarters building overlooking the East River in New York City. Clearly they consider themselves the defacto world government and want that status cast in concrete as soon as possible. The UN office tower reminds me of nothing so much as a great big headstone. And I wish we could convert it into the real headstone marking the grave of the United Nations.

    The immediate future looks like nothing I’ve ever seen before.

    I can’t speak for politics in any other country except the U.S. But here it’s confusion and status quo juggling for personal advantage over the good of the nation. Will it settle down? I’m doubtful.

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      Roy Hogue

      I had a remarkable experience yesterday. The Office Depot near us for nearly 20 years has had electric vehicle charging stations in the parking lot for all that time. The cables have been laying on the pavement for all that time collecting wind blown dirt and trash, obviously not having been moved for years. But yesterday when we came out of the store there was actually an EV connected to one of them, the first use I’ve eve seen. **

      Costco has them as well and they show the same neglect. I think the vote is in. The people choose gasoline power over battery every time. There aren’t enough EVs on the road to make counting them worthwhile. And if there were enough to count, there aren’t enough charging stations to handle them all. Their range is limited — from home to where our son once lived in Phoenix is still to this day an impossible trip in even the best EV available.

      Hybrids are a better deal, provided you can manage the inflated price. But they also depend on gasoline. The prius (and probably others) now comes in a plugin model. But the range on the battery last time I did any research was about a mile or two depending on speed before the engine must start to keep them going, making them hardly worthwhile to plug in overnight.

      And for any plugin vehicle: Yes, it’s nice and clean at the battery charging end. But somewhere a generator is churning away in real time to generate that battery charge, a process more than a little bit likely to be using the dreaded fossil fuel.

      When will we wake up?

      ————————

      ** I examined the charging station for the first time, since it was in use, to see if there’s a provision for charging the user for the power. There was none. Unless it’s hidden within some automatic feature that identifies the vehicle through the charging connector, Office Depot is paying the bill or the Edison ratepayers are picking up the tab directly. In either case, this particular voter is pissed off over that.

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        Mikky

        A major problem with recharging batteries is the time it takes, what is needed is a worldwide standard battery size, instead of recharging your permanently owned battery, you buy an already charged replacement, suddenly making the whole thing quicker than filling a petrol tank.

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          KinkyKeith

          “quicker than filling a petrol tank”

          And only ten times more dangerous.

          KK

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              Roy Hogue

              gai,

              As I expect you know, that’s a whole lot of hype.

              Last time I looked into it no one has been able to make Lithium-ion batteries of large enough capacity that would safely recharge at a high enough rate to be practical. That was one of the reasons cited by Toyota a few years ago for not going ahead with the transition from nickle-metal-hydride to lithium-ion. But change is in he wind…

              I now see that they are planning to offer either ni-mh or l-ion batteries in the 2016 Prius.

              The L-ion battery will offer significantly higher battery capacity and better range on battery only. On the other hand, they don’t say exactly what the expected range is and that’s no doubt because it depends on speed. The L-ion battery is significantly more expensive too.

              In the end, all the energy used by the Prius or any other hybrid or an EV, no matter how the current to run the drive motors is generated, comes from fossil fuel. And gee whiz folks. I thought the problem was the CO2 generated by that awful carbon containing fuel. I’d understand it if they bought those hybrids for greater fuel efficiency but to listen to them it’s still all about the carbon footprint and saving the planet. Perhaps that’s what makes the Chevy Volt worth nearly $40,000?

              FACT: The people who could be most helped by the hybrid’s greater fuel milage can’t afford them. And the people who don’t need that help are the ones buying them. Go figure.

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                Roy Hogue

                Sorry! Hype except for the weight of the battery, which I think is safe to assume is correct.

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                tom0mason

                Sorry there Roy but you said –
                “Perhaps that’s what makes the Chevy Volt worth nearly $40,000?”

                A Chevy Volt may cost that much but it is only worth what fools are willing to pay for it. Some think it’s worth more, some less.

                As Reuters put it two years ago …

                General Motors has sold approximately 21,500 Volts since the gasoline-electric hybrid was introduced in December 2010, and development costs of the high-tech car are estimated at between $1 billion and $1.2 billion by Reuters’ own calculations. Production costs for the Volt are estimated at between $20,000 and $32,000, a wide margin to be sure. The Volt retails for a base price of $39,145 (before a federal tax credit of $7,500).

                The issue with the Reuters’ math, though, is that it only takes into account the 21,500 Volts sold so far, as if GM would never sell another one ever. If that is taken to be true, then each Volt sold has cost GM around $55,000 in development costs.

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                Dave in the states

                That re-charge electricity comes from coal in just about every case.

                These EVs are also government subsidized, to some extent, in just about every case. And normal people still can’t afford them.

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                gai

                Roy, I was being sarcastic. I have changed batteries in my diesel pick-up and in a semi-truck. The batteries weigh between 60 and 70 pounds. YOU DON’T WANT TO DROP THEM ON YOUR TOES!

                The idea someone thinks swapping-out batteries is easier than pumping gas has never touched the inside of a vehicle in his life.

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        Dave in the states

        Did you see the Top Gear episode that had them driving EVs around London? It was great! After about 30 miles of London traffic, the EV’s began to run out of power. They are searching desperately for a place to plug in. Jeremy is seen talking to a bistro owner about re-charging his EV on her dime. She asks how long it might take and how much power it would consume. He tells her only about 9 hours. She tells him to (not very politely) get out. They finally see a boat dock with plug-ins and push their cars down onto the dock. They go of visiting tourists sites for several hours, while waiting for their EVs to recharge. It takes 12 hours before they can drive home… to plug-in again.

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      KinkyKeith

      Roy

      Sounds like the political mess we have here.

      For the past 20 years I have taken a very intense interest in what politics promises and what it delivers.

      Not good. You can work your life away, do all the right things, pay all the imposed taxes and government surcharges and the government can dismiss you like a piece of dirt without a second thought.

      When we were young there wasn’t much difference between what politicians told us and the reality.

      Now we are told so much in so many ways that it is impossible to sort reality and the winners are POLITICIANS.

      Reality check needed.

      KK

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        gai

        In the USA you are actually much better off as a car thief then you are as a farmer or a small business food seller. I made that comment several years ago to a local DA who when ballistic.

        As a car thief (actually it was a semi with 48 ft trailer) even with priors you get MAX 2 months probation per the federal guidelines. As a farmer you can get millions in fines and the original ‘Food safety’ bill had a maximum of ten years prison sentence. That did not make it into the actual law passed, but we all know how the ‘wish list’ of the original bill always seems to crawl back into the law over the years once the spotlight is removed….

        And here it is raising it’s ugly head six years after the bill was passed….
        Jun 18, 2015 Is Jail Time the Solution to America’s Food Safety Problem? And yes I do think these people deserve jail time. On second thought maybe the MAX sentence is to PROTECT the executives of large corporations from thirty year or more jail sentences when they deliberately poison people….
        …………

        Before WTO’s Agreement on Agriculture (AoA) the USA had the safest food in the world. Now we don’t.

        From the CDC website, I plotted the three years before the implementation of HACCP vs the three years after and the food borne illness in the USA DOUBLED! The ratification of WTO with the AoA lead to HACCP. The International HACCP Alliance was developed on March 25, 1994, to provide a uniform program… It is housed within the Department of Animal Science at Texas A&M University.

        John Munsell explains why.
        HACCP’S Disconnect From Public Health Concerns

        … Various modifications and revisions have transpired in the last one hundred years, the most recent of which (and perhaps the most serious) is known as Hazard Analysis Critical Control Point (HACCP). This paper will address the initial justification for and implementation of the HACCP ideal, which has numerous adverse implications for public health imperatives….

        The agency’s rejection of pre-HACCP national standards has further aggravated the agency’s inability to protect public health, has eliminated agency consistency in enforcement actions, and has victimized downline plants the agency requires to concoct theoretically-correct HACCP decisions. In the absence of national standards, the thousands of inspectors and veterinarians no longer know what minimum standards should be required in order to produce wholesome food. Turf battles are rampant…

        Inspectors who previously monitored meat production lines are now frequently relegated to inspecting paperwork. Numerous plants which have suffered through the detection of contaminated meat (contaminated at their source supplier plants) undergo exhaustive FSIS scrutiny exclusively focused on (a) written HACCP Plans and (b) daily paperwork. Unwittingly, FSIS is admitting that contamination is caused by allegedly inadequate paperwork, or a missing paragraph in the plants’ HACCP Plans. Such absurdity is the logical consequence of placing primary oversight on paperwork, while ignoring the weightier importance of unsanitary meat production lines….

        …The ramifications are numerous, allowing FSIS no escape route. First of all, “visible fecal contamination” was no longer of interest to the agency for two reasons. First of all, the detection was accomplished via organoleptic methods (visual observation), an allegedly archaic throwback to meat inspection’s dark ages; thus, should be ignored. Secondly, the multiple hurdle pathogen interventions ostensibly removed ALL contaminants, allegedly “sterilizing carcasses”. Under HACCP’s insulation, FSIS has no concern with feces on carcasses, because plants have implemented pathogen intervention steps which apparently remove all contaminants, both visible and invisible. How can a plant with scientific proof that it sterilizes carcasses possibly be guilty of experiencing a “continuous problem” with E.coli contamination? These two sets of “facts” cannot be reconciled, at least under a truly scientific system. The 19.1 million pound recall balanced the scales. And, if animal fecal contamination was “repeatedly observed” by FSIS inspectors, why weren’t enforcement actions taken by the agency? Answer: FSIS must live up to its initial “Hands Off” restrictions, or be guilty of reneging on its promises to the large slaughter establishments.….

        NASA,NOAA and the EPA are not the only parts of the US bureaucracy with a major case of anal-cranial impaction!

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          Roy Hogue

          Is Jail Time the Solution to America’s Food Safety Problem?

          Before I can answer that I’d need to know that we actually have a food safety problem worth all the time and energy spent talking abut it. I suspect the actual problem is blown all out of proportion in order to get voter support for legislation.

          If we spent as much time trying to bring our farming and ranching industry back to life at home instead of importing so much food, imagine what it would accomplish.

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            gai

            Brilliant answer Roy and you are very very correct. The USA has now imported TB in Mexican cows because the border crossing is operated by the Mexican Cattle Association and not the USDA. The WTO agreement does not allow quarantine as a food safety measure either.

            The whole mess is political just like CAGW. The Ag cartel wants complete control of the world food supply and that is what the WTO AoA was all about.

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        Roy Hogue

        Yep!

        The moral of the story — never create an organization, give it a huge budget and then tell it to protect you from yourself. And if you do go ahead and do that, don’t be surprised that it keeps on perpetuation itself beyond all need or reason until it’s got a heavy boot on everyone’s throat in the name of doing the job you gave it.

        Freedom is lost faster by giving someone else the responsibility to protect you than any other way.

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  • #

    So many meetings about meetings about the Paris Meeting. So little time for thought, and so little understanding of the policy issues.
    Maybe the slogan should be

    Un autre endroit exotique pour déguiser la même politique vide.

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    gai

    A big problem is the third world countries do not trust the first world countries and ESPECIALLY the World Bank and IMF worth spit.

    CAGW can not be separated from money and it is money/ World Bank/IMF that is now the stumbling block. Third world countries have been severly burnt more than once and are now very distrusting of anything to do with the World Bank and the IPCC that the World Bank is promoting.

    [T]he Gadhafi regime went from “a model” and an “important ally” to the next target for regime change in a period of just a few years. But after claims of “genocide” as the justification for NATO intervention were disputed by experts, several other theories have been floated.

    Oil, of course, has been mentioned frequently — Libya is Africa‘s largest oil producer. But one possible reason in particular for Gadhafi’s fall from grace has gained significant traction among analysts and segments of the non-Western media: central banking and the global monetary system.

    According to more than a few observers, Gadhafi’s plan to quit selling Libyan oil in U.S. dollars — demanding payment instead in gold-backed “dinars” (a single African currency made from gold) — was the real cause. The regime, sitting on massive amounts of gold, estimated at close to 150 tons, was also pushing other African and Middle Eastern governments to follow suit…

    Notice while we are ‘protected’ from this speculation about the real reason for Gadhafi’s fall from grace, it does make the news in third world countries

    Copenhagen climate summit in disarray after ‘Danish text’ leak
    Developing countries react furiously to leaked draft agreement
    that would hand more power to rich nations, sideline the UN’s negotiating role and abandon the Kyoto protocol

    The agreement, leaked to the Guardian, is a departure from the Kyoto protocol’s principle that rich nations, which have emitted the bulk of the CO2, should take on firm and binding commitments to reduce greenhouse gases, while poorer nations were not compelled to act. The draft hands effective control of climate change finance to the World Bank; would abandon the Kyoto protocol – the only legally binding treaty that the world has on emissions reductions; and would make any money to help poor countries adapt to climate change dependent on them taking a range of actions.

    The document was described last night by one senior diplomat as “a very dangerous document for developing countries. It is a fundamental reworking of the UN balance of obligations. It is to be superimposed without discussion on the talks”.
    (wwwDOT)theguardian.com/environment/2009/dec/08/copenhagen-climate-summit-disarray-danish-text

    Slightly different view point from China: (wwwDOT)chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009copenhagenclimate/2009-12/10/content_9150985.htm

    Now where have I heard “..would make any money to help poor countries adapt to climate change dependent on them taking a range of actions…” before? Oh yes, Structural Adjustment Programmes (SAPs) They “are economic policies for developing countries that have been promoted by the World Bank and International Monetary Fund (IMF) since the early 1980s by the provision of loans conditional on the adoption of such policies.” — WHO (wwwDOT)who.int/trade/glossary/story084/en/

    We know that the World Bank has it’s finger prints all over the IPCC with Robert Watson, a former IPPC chair working for the World Bank at the time he was Chair.

    The third world countries hate the World Bank and IMF. They especially hate Structural Adjustment Programmes (SAPs)

    The term “Structural Adjustment Program” has gained such a negative connotation that the World Bank and IMF launched a new initiative, the Poverty Reduction Strategy Initiative, and makes countries develop Poverty Reduction Strategy Papers (PRSP). While the name has changed, with PRSPs, the World Bank is still forcing countries to adopt the same types of policies as SAPs….

    A BRIEF HISTORY OF RESISTANCE TO STRUCTURAL ADJUSTMENT
    in the dozens of countries where the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank have imposed structural adjustment programs (SAPs), the people who have seen deterioration in their standards of living, reduced access to public services, devastated environments, and plummeting employment prospects have not been passive. The pages of newspapers, magazines, and academic journals (those that can survive in depressed economies) been filled with damning analysis of structural adjustment. More important, people have been organizing to combat the pillaging of their lands and livelihoods. This organizing has resulted in mass movements and protests on every continent, but they are not often reported on in the mainstream press. [A LONG LIST OF EXAMPLES FOLLOW]
    (wwwDOT)whirledbank.org/development/sap.html

    There have been at least three whistleblowers I know of who have given us a glimpse of the slimy underbelly of the IMF/World Bank.
    Mr. Budhoo’s Bombshell: A people’s alternative to Structural Adjustment

    Summer 1995
    “Today I resigned from the staff of the International Monetary Fund after over 12 years, and after 1000 days of official fund work in the field, hawking your medicine and your bag of tricks to governments and to peoples in Latin America and the Caribbean and Africa. To me, resignation is a priceless liberation, for with it I have taken the first big step to that place where I may hope to wash my hands of what in my mind’s eye is the blood of millions of poor and starving peoples. Mr. Camdessus, the blood is so much, you know, it runs in rivers. It dries up too; it cakes all over me; sometimes I feel that there is not enough soap in the whole world to cleanse me from the things that I did do in your name and in the name of your predecessors, and under your official seal. ”

    With those words, Davison Budhoo, a senior economist with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) for more than 12 years, publicly resigned in May, 1988. A native Grenadian, Budhoo received his degree from the London School of Economics. He joined the staff of the World Bank in 1966 and later shifted to the IMF, where he was responsible for designing and implementing Structural Adjustment Programs (SAPs) for African, Latin American and Caribbean nations. His 100-plus page open letter to Michel Camdessus, managing director of the IMF, titled “Enough is Enough,” sent shock waves around the world, making front page headlines in many countries (but not in the US)….

    Hopefully everyone has heard of the book Confessions of an Economic Hit Man written by John Perkins.

    An Economic Hit Man Speaks Out: John Perkins on How Greece Has Fallen Victim to “Economic Hit Men”

    John Perkins is no stranger to making confessions. His well-known book, Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, revealed how international organizations such as the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank, while publicly professing to “save” suffering countries and economies, instead pull a bait-and-switch on their governments: promising startling growth, gleaming new infrastructure projects and a future of economic prosperity – all of which would occur if those countries borrow huge loans from those organizations. Far from achieving runaway economic growth and success, however, these countries instead fall victim to a crippling and unsustainable debt burden.

    That’s where the “economic hit men” come in: seemingly ordinary men, with ordinary backgrounds, who travel to these countries and impose the harsh austerity policies prescribed by the IMF and World Bank as “solutions” to the economic hardship they are now experiencing. Men like Perkins were trained to squeeze every last drop of wealth and resources from these sputtering economies, and continue to do so to this day. In this interview, which aired on Dialogos Radio, Perkins talks about how Greece and the eurozone have become the new victims of such “economic hit men.”…

    And yet another whistleblower, Karen Hudes

    In 2012, the Swiss Federal Institute in Zurich (SFI) released a comprehensive study entitled, “The Network of Global Corporate Control” which demonstrates how this relatively small consortium of corporations, and overwhelmingly dominated by mainly banks, actually run the world’s corporate daisy chain. According to their study, approximately 147 corporations form a “super entity” and have control 40% of the world’s corporate economy. The centre of the cartel includes the following giants: Barclays, Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase & Co, Vanguard Group, UBS, Deutsche Bank, Bank of New York Mellon Corp, Morgan Stanley, Bank of America Corp, and Société Générale….

    …Karen Hudes is a graduate of Yale Law School and she worked in the legal department of the World Bank for more than 20 years. In fact, when she was fired for blowing the whistle on corruption inside the World Bank, she held the position of Senior Counsel.

    She was in a unique position to see exactly how the global elite rule the world, and the information that she is now revealing to the public is absolutely stunning. According to Hudes, the elite use a very tight core of financial institutions and mega-corporations to dominate the planet. The goal is control. They want all of us enslaved to debt, they want all of our governments enslaved to debt, and they want all of our politicians addicted to the huge financial contributions that they funnel into their campaigns. Since the elite also own all of the big media companies, the mainstream media never lets us in on the secret that there is something fundamentally wrong with the way that our system works.

    Remember, this is not some “conspiracy theorist” that is saying these things. This is a Yale-educated attorney that worked inside the World Bank for more than two decades….

    I would hazard a guess that there is a huge amount of bribery and threats going on behind the scenes at all these talks. I would not be surprised if Gadhafi is being held up as an ‘object lesson’ to the recalcitrant.

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    AndyG55

    Richard Betts sais, “He added: ‘Has it occurred to scaremongers like Emma Thompson that exaggerating climate change could drive more migration unnecessarily? Irresponsible.’”

    He is trying to link the current issues from Syria with climate change refugees !!!

    It was only a matter of time before that happened.

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    handjive

    ABC – Paris climate summit: Frustration mounting at ‘snail’s pace’ of UN climate talks

    This should be depressing for warmists with high hopes for Paris (youtube): Climate Change — Secret Tapes – The Copenhagen Files

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      gai

      Her is MORE

      The entire discussion at Der Spiegel in multiple parts should be read while listening to the tape.
      Part 1: How China and India Sabotaged the UN Climate Summit
      Part 2: ‘We Need Some More Time’
      Part 3: Obama Stabs the Europeans in the Back

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    pat

    ***LOANS! LOL. FUNNY HOW THIS GETS ANNOUNCED RIGHT AFTER THE NEGOTIATIONS FOR THE PARIS DOCUMENT ARE HANDED OVER TO THE DYNAMIC DUO!

    6 Aug: RTCC: Ed King: Rich countries discuss $100bn climate finance pathway
    CRIB NOTES SEPT 7-11: Criteria for climate funds defined, ministers discuss loss + damage, Pacific leaders gather in PNG
    Ministers from 18 countries who in 2009 promised to deliver $100 billion a year in climate funds by 2020 met on Sunday in Paris to discuss how they would find the cash and what type of finances would count.
    In a two page statement they said all were committed to hitting the target, and offered a brief definition of “our common understanding of mobilised climate finance”. Funds they say count include ***loans, export credit agency finance, development finance and de-risking finance instruments. Here’s the full statement.
    Signatories as follows: Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom, United States, and the European Commission.
    That announcement was part of a wider two-day [Sunday + Monday] gathering of senior officials and ministers to discuss plans for a UN climate deal – hosted by the French government. An agenda seen by RTCC suggests key discussion topics will be finance, technology transfers blah blah…
    Plus lots of buffet lunches and aperetifs. Here’s the family photo…
    http://www.rtcc.org/2015/09/06/rich-countries-discuss-100bn-climate-finance-pathway/

    much more at the link, including:

    GO FLY A KYTE: World Bank special envoy on climate and ***West Ham fan Rachel Kyte is leaving the steel and glass walls of the Bank’s DC HQ to take over as Chief Executive Officer of the Sustainable Energy for All initiative and Ban Ki-moon’s Special Representative for Sustainable Energy for All.
    It’s another big move for the popular official, known for her straight talking, and one welcomed by current boss Jim Kim: “Access to clean sustainable energy for all, ***especially in Sub-Saharan Africa…

    SUSTAINABLE ENERGY FOR ALL…AT A PRICE, RACHEL.

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    pat

    2 pages:Joint Statement on Tracking Progress Towards the $100 billion Goal
    Paris, France, 6 September 2015
    Looking Ahead
    It is important to note that current data and methodological limitations prevent us from accounting for the full range of flows that we are mobilizing towards the $100 billion goal at this time, in particular those mobilized through public policy interventions. As such, any near-term estimate produced will necessarily be partial, and will omit some – and possibly a substantial amount – of climate finance mobilized. We intend to continue to improve our methodology as data availability increases and measurement methods evolve, and, as a result, we expect our reporting to become more complete over time…
    http://www.news.admin.ch/NSBSubscriber/message/attachments/40866.pdf

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    gai

    $100 billion goal? Just have the Banks print more monopoly money….

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    Safetyguy66

    “Poorer countries want compensation for extreme weather events that they link to large scale carbon emissions.”

    How about the right to cast the serving US president into a volcano. That would be pretty appropriate for the level of science involved.

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    pat

    a warning to the celebrities playing into the hands of those who would condemn developing countries to a future of unaffordable wind & solar etc:

    2 Sept: UK Daily Mail: Ross McDonagh: ‘Spend your own money’: Critics lash out at One Direction after they call on fans and world leaders to make the world a better place
    In the video clip, Niall Horan is seen sobbing about families who have to ‘choose between food or rent, fuel or schoolbooks’
    He owns the lion’s share of the band’s £130million fortune because he is a songwriter too
    One social-media commentator said: ‘If they care so much about all these things, they should donate all their millions to make it happen’
    They called the internet to action… and the internet extended its finger in one direction.
    Harry, Niall, Liam and Louis felt a backlash they probably weren’t expecting when they issued a plea for fans to put pressure on world leaders…
    And within an hour of going live on Yahoo’s celebrity blog, a good portion of the comments were along the lines of ‘I want to live in a world where boy bands don’t force feed political messages’…
    ‘How about they stop flying all around the world and donate all their money to support what they preach?’ wrote another…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3219206/One-Direction-call-fans-pressure-world-leaders-told-use-tens-millions-instead.html

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    pat

    Obama love affair continues unabated at the ABC:

    5 Sept: ABC: Sara Phillips: Obama’s Clean Power Plan: give them a cap and the trade will follow
    Barack Obama’s Clean Power Plan works around a hostile political opposition and avoids the carbon tax headache. Will it provide inspiration for further Australian climate action?
    Later this year, a major United Nations climate change conference is happening in Paris, where the US’s climate plans are thought to be an important catalyst for the rest of the world taking action.
    Australia will become caught up in climate fever again this year. The Australian government will feel international pressure to take our climate commitments to the next level. Meanwhile, Opposition Leader Bill Shorten recently announced that he wants to make the next election about climate change.
    However Prime Minister Tony Abbott has railed long and hard about a carbon tax and its “toxic” effect on Australia. He has labelled the alternative — a cap-and-trade scheme — to be a tax in disguise…
    So if Mr Abbott was hoping that Obama had created a third way — a climate solution that is neither tax nor ETS — he’ll be disappointed.
    It may be only a cap at this stage, but in a market environment as lively as the USA, it’s a matter of time before ***carbon is traded as a commodity
    http://www.abc.net.au/environment/articles/2015/08/05/4286903.htm

    ***before CARBON is traded? where are the ABC editors?

    of course, this is from ‘their ABC’ which has still not done a single article on Obama’s approval & defense of Shell’s drilling for oil in the Arctic!

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    David Maddison

    A bit off topic but this video shows the world’s largest wind turbine. It has a nameplate of 7MW and weighs 6,000 tons. You can see from the video the massive environmental impact and futile huge engineering effort that went into this basically useless structure.

    To further understand the futility at a very basic level, it requires 6,000 tons of “stuff” to generate a mere 7MW. I don’t know the weight of stuff in a conventional fossil or nuclear plant but scaling up to a typical 1,000MW it would mean over 850,000 tons to generate the same nameplate power and I”m sure conventional plants don’t have that much stuff.

    https://youtu.be/qS3CtSX8Eck

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      David Maddison

      Ok, here’s some interesting factoids from Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_power_station

      In 1901 the Manhattan Elevated Railway used recipricating engine generator sets, the biggest ever made. Each one produced 6MW and weighed 500 tons. A comment is made that a modern steam turbine generating set producing that amount would weigh 20% as much, so 100 tons for 6MW that is reliable and cheap 24/7/365 versus 6,000 tons of stuff to generate 7MW of nameplate which is not producing anything most of the time and not producing nameplate when it is working.

      Of course, due to scaling laws, the amount of stuff to generate each MW keeps going down the larger the generator becomes.

      The insanity just keeps getting worse.

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      Man, that is just so impressive.

      7MW from each tower.

      Imagine.

      So, to equal the Nameplate of Bayswater, you would only need 380 of them. (if all of them work perfectly for their whole 25 year lifespan)

      To equal the yearly power delivery of Bayswater, you would only need 1090 of them. (if all of them work perfectly for their whole 25 year lifespan)

      To equal the lifetime power delivery from Bayswater, you would only need 2180 of them. (if all of them work perfectly for their whole 25 year lifespan)

      To equal the lifetime power delivery from Bayswater, going on the nominated closure date given by the new owners, you would only need 3500 of them. (if all of them work perfectly for their whole 25 year lifespan)

      That is really impressive. (/sarc)

      Tony.

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        David Maddison

        Tony – given the gradual decommissioning of reliable fossil fuel power generation, how long will it be before our grid becomes totally unstable due to an excessive reliance on the unsustainables?

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          AndyG55

          Pretty sure that the UK , Germany will give us plenty of warning.

          Fortunately we don’t use huge gobs of electricity, so even our aging fleet of coal powered stations should could us going for quite a while…

          barring a Green/Labor parliament, that is !!!!!!!! (notice which one I put first)

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            AndyG55

            “should could ”

            That’s NOT what I typed.. really its not,

            darn auto-moderator is even changing my text now ! ;-)

            should keep… !!!

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    Boambee John

    On the other hand, at the present rate, the Paris talkfest is likely to be completely over run by Syrian refugees, grossly outnumbering the delegates!

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    pat

    you want headlines!

    7 Sept: Tony Abbott says Australia will accept more Syria refugees but within current intake, Peter Dutton to travel to Geneva for UN talks on crisis
    Related:
    Austria, Germany open borders to asylum seekers offloaded by Hungary
    Australia should do more for asylum seekers, ‘do it now’: Baird
    Melbourne commuters donate $30,000 to asylum seekers
    How you can help asylum seekers
    Conflict in Syria is causing the largest movement of people since WWII. Here’s how you can help from home.
    From other news sites:
    The Sydney Morning Herald: Tony Abbott unmoved by Liberal calls for more Syria refugee help
    The Australian: Tony Abbott urged to increase refugee intake
    9 News: Tony Abbott refuses to give in to Coalition call for greater refugee intake in wake of Middle East crisis
    The Guardian: Aylan Kurdi should not have died, Naomi Klein tells Sydney festival
    Mercury: Premier pushing for more refugees to be brought to Tasmania in Safe Haven program
    Right column:
    Explained: Europe’s growing migrtion crisis
    In Pictures: asylum seeker crisis
    How Australians can help European migrants
    Desperation and exhaustion in Belgrade
    Crisis exposes rifts between European countries
    The desperate bid for refuge in Europe
    How asylum seeker help compares across EU
    Record 107,500 asylum seekers reach EU borders in July
    TOP Stories:
    Federal Government frontbencher calls for one-off refugee increase
    Asylum seekers arrive to applause in Germany; emergency measures to end
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-06/abbott-vows-australia-will-help-syria-refugees/6753220

    what’s missing? where’s a single headline demanding the US/Obama take in any of the refugees?
    oh, they’ve taken in the equivalent of about 128 for Austraia!

    5 Sept: NY Daily News: U.S. has only welcomed 1,800 Syrian refugees as migrants beg for world’s help
    But so far the White House and State Department have been cool to the idea of accepting more Syrians.
    “The long-term answer is not refugee resettlement, whether in the United States or elsewhere,” State Department spokesman John Kirby said recently…

    5 Sept: Sputnik: ‘It’s a Genuine Tragedy,’ But We Won’t Take Syrian Refugees: US Spokesman
    A White House spokesman said that although the humanitarian crisis caused by political instability in the Middle East is a “tragedy,” the US has no plans to resettle more Syrian refugees…
    When asked if the Obama administration had plans to increase the number of Syrian refugees in the US, which has given refuge to just 1,541 Syrians during the country’s five years of civil war, White House spokesman Josh Earnest said, “I don’t have any announcements along those lines.”…

    shhhhhh ABC…don’t mention the facts & figures for the Obama administration, whatever you do. stick to the attacks on Abbott cos that’s all you are good for.

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    Manfred

    “Not repeating the mistakes of Copenhagen”

    The most cost effective and environmentally sound method for achieving this would be at a pinch to conduct the meeting on Skype, but better still to simply can it. /rhet.

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    handjive

    Behind every cloud there is a little sunshine …

    Yingli Fights to Survive as Another Solar King Dethroned by Debt (bloomberg)

    “Rising to the top of the solar industry is the easy part.

    Staying there has proven more of a challenge.

    No one illustrates that better these days than Yingli Green Energy Holding Co., which was until last year the world’s biggest panel company by shipments.

    It’s lost two-thirds of its market value in 2015 and in May acknowledged “substantial doubt” about whether it can stay afloat amid a pile of debt.”

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    • #

      Oh, fair suck of the sauce bottle.

      The poor guy was trying so hard too.

      It’s not easy to get production times down for those pesky little solar panels.

      Especially since the news that to supply the total U.S. power requirements it would only take umpteen gazillion of those panels, and if they can find a way to reduce the panel construction time down to one second per panel, it would only take 930 years to actually construct those panels required.

      I guess it got the better of him after trying so hard.

      Oh, incidentally, this link explains how those solar panels are made from nothing to the complete panel.

      The link takes you to Step One of the process. Just under the heading Solar Energy 101, is a menu tab series. Click on each of those individual steps, and there’s only four of them.

      Hmm, this whole process takes a huge amount of electricity to make those pesky little solar panels. I, umm, wonder where all that electrical power comes from.

      One second per panel. I guess they’re pretty close now, eh!

      Cue Curly!

      Tony.

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      • #

        Oh, incidentally, this link explains how those solar panels are made from nothing to the complete panel.

        “polysilicon rock” is not nothing. It’s already taken a lot of energy and physical resources to make that. e.g. in Australia we have quartzite at Moora that’s railed down to Kemerton (near Bunbury). Large amounts of Jarrah woodchips are trucked in and turned into charcoal for the refining (reduction) process. Then there are electrical furnaces that need to be powered. The chemical/metallurgical grade silicon has about 10% of the embedded energy of semiconductor silicon.

        The other point in cell fabrication is that more than half of the energy used to make the ingots is discarded as a result of dimension/shape trimming and slicing of the silicon. While the sawn off chunks and “saw dust” can be recovered from the coolant slurry, it has to go through the most energetic processes again to be part of another ingot.

        That energy loss is one of the motivations for thin-film, etc. solar cells.

        Sometimes, people “forget” the energy that is embedded in tha glass and aluminium frames of solar panels.

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      AndyG55

      And you can BET that a fair slice of those subsidy moneys has been syphoned off somewhere !!

      Where did it go… where did it go !!!

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    Unmentionable

    Jo, your server seems to be responding very slowly today.

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    pat

    I wonder if anyone is able to keep up with the costs of -

    CAGW policies: US$100 billion annually out of developed countries’ economies. public or private, it doesn’t matter; a trillion US dollars to UNEP to plant trees; trillions to be invested in useless renewables.

    plus:

    SDGs: ending poverty in all its forms everywhere within 15 years, and ensuring quality education and affordable and reliable energy, water, sanitation & health for everyone, while protecting the environment can’t come cheap & that’s just for starters, and would presumably need to be funded by the developed countries;

    meanwhile, the developed countries should take in millions of the world’s refugees, ensuring their own economies will qualify for all the monies needed for all of the above. after all, we’re already hearing migrants/asylum seekers/refugees are refugees because of CAGW now or in the near future, which the developed countries caused.

    3 Sept: SMH: Europe’s Refugee Crisis: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    The advance of climate change will test it further…

    7 Sept: HuffPo: The European Migrant Crisis Is A Nightmare. The Climate Crisis Will Make It Worse.

    24 Aug: Brookings Institution: Climate change and the growing challenges of migration

    4 Sept: Salon: Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses”: The migration catastrophe, climate change & the new normal

    19 Aug: Guardian: Mass migration is no ‘crisis’: it’s the new normal as the climate changes

    before you know it, this all adds up to a tidy sum! lol. and it ensures everyone except the CAGW/UN/Vatican/celeb/MSM cronies will be utterly poverty-stricken within 15 years.

    what’s not to like?

    am I wrong?

    will we allow it to happen?

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    Phillip Bratby

    On the BBC news this morning we were told the UN is running out of money to do all the things it deems necessary. I wonder where it all goes?

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    Egor TheOne

    abolish our green communist infested Senate !
    Abolish the entire useless freeloading U.N. !!
    And get Donald Trump elected as USA pres !!!

    And All this will put to sword the this ridiculous Global Fraud of CAGW / CACC or whatever the ratbags call it this month !

    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-AXhzg12yOI8/VIP_CPD2B9I/AAAAAAAAgac/c9dcHdYUnGU/w907-h587-no/endenhofer.png

    Great quote. Thanks! – Jo

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    thojak

    Recalling the ‘Nopenhagen’ COP19, there were the famous reports of ‘Climategate’ shortly before start of that conference, which certainly brought somewhat to the total chaos COP19 turned out to be. ‘Climategate 2′ followed and there were [rumours?] of yet more, a maybe ‘Climategate 3′, to be revealed. What’s the status here? Anybody who knows?

    It would in my opinion be a most perfect time to publish a [type] ‘Climategate 3′ ~ 1-2 week(s) ahead of the Paris COP21. Wow!

    Brgds from Sweden
    /TJ

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    TdeF

    Visited my hero today, reburied in St. Germain des Presin Paris, Rene Descartes, the real creator of modern rational thinking and whose belief that mathematics was the foundation of knowledge thought. He created the base for everyone else, especially Newton, but Rene is just a name on a wall. However he had things to day, four rules.

    The first was never to accept anything for true which I did not clearly know to be such; that is to say, carefully to avoid precipitancy and prejudice, and to comprise nothing more in my judgment than what was presented to my mind so clearly and distinctly as to exclude all ground of doubt.

    In Climate Change, everyone is quoted as an ‘expert’ or a ‘climate expert’, a new sort of infallible seer. Some even use ‘Super’ Computers and mathematical models. In this new world even an actress can predict the future with certainty and she gets attention. Why not just make stuff up? We have gone backwards 400 years.

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    David Maddison

    In as compact a way as possible I am trying to put a little statement together about why CAGW is not true. Here are the few points I am starting with. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks.

    Cheap fossil-based energy is an economic advantage not a liability. CO2 not a problem. No warming for over 18 years. Only 0.6C warming in 135 years. CO2 lags, not precedes temperature change. Not a major greenhouse gas. Anthropogenic CO2 only < 3.5% of all CO2 in atmosphere. An insignificant proportion of an insignificant trace gas. Catastrophic global warming a fraud.

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      David, also global warming started sometime around 1700, long before cars and coal fired power stations. The climate models don’t know why.

      The peak rates of warming have been the same every 50 – 60 years, in 1870, 1930, 1980. All that CO2 didn’t make the 1980s warm any faster than the 1870s. 0.16C per decade.

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    David Maddison

    MODS – a lot of things seem to be getting stuck in moderation with no obvious or even remote connection to anything that might be a posting offence…

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