JoNova

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weekend unthreaded

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weekend unthreaded, 7.8 out of 10 based on 32 ratings

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100 comments to weekend unthreaded

  • #
    Roger Knights

    InterGovernmental Panel On Climate Change:
    IGPOCC:
    IG:
    Ignorant
    POCC: Chicken Little’s chatter.
    IGPOCC has these advantages over “the IPCC”:
    • It is a pronounceable acronym, unlike “IPCC,” which is a mere abbreviation.
    • It comes without the extra baggage of an introductory “the.” “IGPOCC claims . . .” has only three syllables, not the six of “the IPCC claims.”
    • IGPOCC is more memorable than “IPCC”—it’s hard to keep the latter’s letters straight when writing or saying it.
    • It’s a more accurate representation of the IPCC’s spelled-out title, because 1) the word “Governmental” is a vital part of it and should not be submerged in “Inter.” Unawareness that the panel is composed of representatives of governments contributes to widespread misunderstanding of “where it’s coming from.” Many people assume, I suspect, that the word is “International”; and 2) “on” is included in IGPOCC.
    • IGPOCC mockingly suggests an assemblage of ignorant clucks.
    • It lends itself to other word-forms, like IGPOCC-ery and IGPOCC-ish.
    So, henceforth, let’s stick it to the chick(en) with “IGPOCC.”

    120

    • #
      Annie

      Igpocc, Igpocc, pocc, pocc, pocc pocc-urk….Chicken Littles everywhere…pocc, pocc, pocc, pocc, pocc pocc-urk.

      Sorry, One and All; Saturday night silly reaction to Comment 1.

      91

      • #
        Peter Miller

        iC?

        Idiot Climateers.

        Instant charlatans.

        Imaginary climate.

        As China and India have no intention of doing anything about their CO2 emissions for at least another 20 years, regardless of what the gullible Obama might like us to believe, there is absolutely no point in us beggaring our economies on the altar of a non-problem.

        81

        • #
          PeterS

          Obama is a fake, which explains why his promises are all fakes. As for the Greens and the left falling all over themselves about the agreement between Obama and China to reduce emissions, they are simply fools. There is no agreement. All China has stated is they might start reducing it in some 16 years, and the way they are going to do it is to build far more nuclear power stations and dams right now. The left and Greens are simple morons.

          50

          • #
            Andrew

            I’ve asked Grublam to explain which we should be cheering:
            A) the Kenyan (with no carbon price) reducing emissions by Direct Action and fracking, or
            B ) China growing emissions without bound till 2030, and promising more dams and nukes.

            21

  • #
    Matty

    It’s too long.
    iPeCaC is fine. Yet changing the name might be the kind of stunt they would pull at this desperate time as they face an existential crisis, or should I say setting up a omitted to look at and report back on changing the name.

    51

    • #
      Roger Knights

      “It’s too long.”

      “IGPOCC” is shorter than “the IPCC.” And it has half as many syllables.

      “iPeCaC is fine.”

      IGPOCC is superior in that it is a straightforward replication of the initial letters of the official name. No moderator could snip it on the basis of its being a mere insult. Its subtlety gives it a pass. It’s non-escalatory, on its face. It’s “pawky.”

      And IGPOCC has a silly sound, subconsciously suggesting the clucking of clueless Chicken Littles.

      61

  • #
    John Knowles

    Has Ebola died out all of a sudden? Not long ago it was a horrible threat and very much in the MSM.
    My reading says that someone finally succeeded in transporting some colloidal silver into Sierra Leone and trialled it on 300 Ebola patients with positive results which were in keeping with the US military lab experiments.
    I’d suggest that in the absence of a medical answer any cheap peripheral support must be a good thing. Oxygen saturation and high Vit C are cheap and beneficial even if not “cures” as such.

    71

  • #
    Turtle of WA

    Obama reckons last summer was globally the hottest on record.

    40

  • #
    pat

    re questions on ebola:

    the number of cases & deaths continues at a snail’s pace, no sign whatsoever of any doubling every 21 days, and with the MSM still unable to work out 5,100+ deaths out of 14,413 cases does not represent 70% (even taking into account some of the cases could still lead to death):

    15 Nov: IDB: WHO To Begin Human Trials On Promising Ebola Drugs By December; Ebola Now Has 70% Death Rate
    More than 5,100 people have died in the region due the Ebola outbreak in Liberia, Guinea and Sierra Leone. Four people have died from the virus in recent weeks in Mali…
    The WHO said 14,413 cases of Ebola have been recorded with a fatality rate of 70 percent.
    http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/572852/20141115/drugs-ebola-outbreak-west-africa-human-trials.htm

    thousands of US and UK troops are settling into the region & Big Pharma is on the way. a win-win!

    13 Nov: New Scientist: Deborah McKenzie: Ebola blood and drug trials to start in December
    Officials at the World Health Organization and drug regulators had argued that such placebo-controlled trials were necessary to see quickly whether the drugs work. But investigators have concerns about whether it is ethical, or even possible, to randomly give people with Ebola a placebo in the midst of an epidemic that kills 70 per cent of those infected…
    The University of Oxford is running one of the trials – investigating brincidofovir, an antiviral owned by the US firm Chimerix…
    The French national institute for medical research, INSERM, is running the other, trialling favipiravir…
    Johan van Griensven of the Antwerp Institute of Tropical Medicine in Belgium, where Ebola was discovered, will be testing whether blood from Ebola survivors boosts 100 people’s odds of surviving two weeks. The trial will switch to plasma – blood with the cells removed – when staff and equipment to provide it are in place…
    It has taken several months to settle all the legal issues and decide on the experimental design. Getting approvals from regulators in the countries affected and those running the trials is still on-going…
    The GSK vaccine will be tested in Liberia using a classic placebo-controlled design, in which some participants randomly get another antiviral vaccine – one that doesn’t act on Ebola – to serve as a placebo. The other will be tested in Sierra Leone using a design in which groups given the vaccine are compared to groups not given any type of vaccine – so no use of placebo.
    But Armand Sprecher of Médecins sans Frontières says it is too late for vaccines to have much effect on the Ebola epidemic.
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26557-ebola-blood-and-drug-trials-to-start-in-december.html

    50

  • #
    pat

    btw a not unexpected development at the G20:

    15 Nov: UK Telegraph: Steven Swinford: Vladimir Putin to leave G20 early after ‘tense’ meeting with David Cameron
    The Russian president is reportedly planning to leave the summit early on Sunday and miss its official lunch in response to repeated criticism from western leaders.
    The move comes after Tony Abbott, the Australian Prime Minister, threatened to “shirt front” Mr Putin – a form of physical confrontation. Stephen Harper, the Canadian Prime Minister, told Mr Putin: “I guess I’ll shake your hand, but I’ll only have one thing to say to you – get out of the Ukraine.”
    Mr Cameron told Mr Putin that he is at a “crossroads” and could face further sanctions after the pair held “robust” discussions on Ukraine…
    The meeting at the G20 summit in Brisbane, Australia, follows a tense build up in which Mr Cameron compared Russia to Nazi Germany. ..
    Mr Putin still insists that Russian troops have not crossed the border into the UK(raine), despite evidence to the contrary. The Prime Minister said that drones should be deployed to monitor the situation on the ground, a move which Mr Putin claimed he supported…
    Mr Cameron also raised the prospect of a “national unity government” in Syria to replace Bashar al-Assad’s dictatorship.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/11232995/Vladimir-Putin-to-leave-G20-early-after-tense-meeting-with-David-Cameron.html

    ***and Obama is back to attacking his new best climate friend, China:

    15 Nov: Daily Mail: Reuters: Putin plans to leave G20 early after West blasts Russia over Ukraine
    Outside the summit, Ukrainian Australians staged an anti-Putin protest, wearing headbands reading “Putin, Killer”.
    Draped with the flags of the nations that lost citizens when the flight MH17 was shot down, the demonstrators lay on a large Ukrainian flag, in what they said was a protest at the “murderous acts” Russia’s president was responsible for…
    ***Obama also said the United States would renew commitment to its strategic pivot to the Asia-Pacific in comments seen as a veiled warning to China.
    Obama insisted that Asia’s security order must not be based on “coercion or intimidation … where big nations bully the small, but on alliances for mutual security”…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuters/article-2835756/Putin-plans-leave-G20-early-West-blasts-Russia-Ukraine.html

    i don’t know a soul up here who can bear to hear a word about this Summit. it is really & truly the ugliest politics imaginable. everyone fled Brisbane to get away from it.

    70

    • #

      A few folk throughout Europe should be very worried that Vlad might just turn off the gas tap.

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      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Come early January, he won’t want to spoil Christmas, would he?

        He will have the excuse that the Ukrainians have been helping themselves to the russian gas passing through and not paying for it. Besides the temperatures will be very low. If only the europeans had stored some of that global warming from 1980-1990.

        The Nordstream pipelines to Germany will be left running, and Europe can have as much as they get from them, provided they pay for it.

        Dave Cameron is getting increasingly vocal as troubles multiply at home. If UKIP win the by-election on Nov. 20 even more Conservatives will want to get rid of him. Then he has to get through the coming winter without blackouts. Should they occur then that will probably be the end of him, unless any challengers decide to let him lose the General Election and take the blame.

        70

    • #
      Annie

      It makes you wonder where basic good manners have disappeared to.

      51

      • #
        gnome

        There are some who would say that invading Ukraine doesn’t deserve a polite response.

        21

      • #
        FIN

        Yes, reading Griss you do wonder that, and yes I agree with the Gnome. If you shoot domestic jet liners out of the sky I’m not sure you can expect too much courtesy.

        04

  • #
    Mark D.

    Meanwhile, there is exceptional unprecedented cold over much of the US.

    Damn fine to have natural gas plumbed to the house. I’m looking at 8F this morning……. 15 degrees lower than average for the date.

    90

    • #
      Annie

      All that will matter to the warmists is that it is hot in Brisbane while they are there; not that it was dreary and drizzly on Thursday on the Gold Coast or rather cool in Perth at times recently and cold and wet in Victoria right now.

      120

      • #
        The Backslider

        it is hot in Brisbane

        I noted somewhere in the MSM they said that the soles of people’s shoes were melting…. total rot!

        70

        • #
          bobl

          The bitumen on a road near us is melting …. must be climate change …. OR, Maybe, just maybe that road was incredibly poorly built! (it’s got melt even from the tyre friction 2 weeks after it was built)

          Frankly I don’t see how forwarding 11 Bn a year in a tax by treaty deal with the UN is gonna prevent a Nor Westerly blowing hot air into SE Queensland!

          30

        • #
          jorgekafkazar

          That stuff on people’s shoes was MSM output.

          20

    • #
      Mike of NQ

      Wow, that is cold, must be caused by global warming. Luckily for you guys, Obama has just pledged $3 billion to the UN Climate Fund and a 25% reduction in wealth creation – I mean CO2 emissions.

      60

      • #
        bobl

        What do you mean 25%! wealth will decrease by that 3 Bn plus whatever than 3 Bn could generate if put to good use, lets say you used it to generate some cheap, nuke or coal energy how would that benefit the Economy?

        20

  • #
    red breast

    What an insult to the host and the host country by President Obama with his speech at QU. His climate change theory was clearly recently rejected by voters in the USA along with a total rejection here by Australian voters over 12 months ago, he’s just been “conned” by the Chinese to sign the USA receivership papers and he uses his “authority” to lecture us. His arrogance as a guest here and his ignorance of so-called climate change is disrespectful and insulting. His promise to give billions of dollars to the UN may very well be an empty one depending on Congress but I believe it is bad form, and a diplomatic affront.
    Meanwhile the (usual) media blogs are in hyperdrive and the PM’s facebook page with the PM’s speech and photos is full of disgusting insults and really vulgar comments from the usual trolls.
    Thank you Mr President but you can go home now because it’s obvious you ignored the American economy for the last 6 years, (just print more money – that’ll work!) so why would you want to stay and talk about the economy at the G20.

    340

    • #
      Mike of NQ

      I agree, the warmies are in hyper-drive. They are saying Abbott has been given a lesson in power and how to drive an agenda. What stands Abbott apart from most is his actual leadership and putting everything on the line to protect Australia and Australia’s interests. Nearly all the worlds experts said boats couldn’t be turned around and the world laughed when Abbott said he could achieve free trade agreements with China, Japan and South Korea in less than a year. When Australia was at logger heads with Indonesia, Abbott did not back down unlike Labor who still are still trying to seek their approval for turn-backs. When 38 Australians died, Abbott confronted Putin while Shorton said “no point in saying anything, why would he listen to me. If a so called lesson in power is a PR Stunt of failed president made beating his chest on someone else’s lawn between rounds of golf, than I’m going back to school. Not power, the word is power trip (literally). This is the same man that on his inauguration 6 years ago said ‘the rise of the oceans will now start to slow and the planet will now start to heal’. What an ego!

      151

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Shorton? Well we would agree what he is short on.

        Yes, Abbott has gone about delivering his promises despite loose cannons in the Senate and virulent opposition from the usual suspects. Expect an election next year and there won’t be any amnesty offered this time to the ABC for its hysterical campaign against the government.

        80

      • #
        will gray

        Yes OBummas ego, speaking to african, he said fm,,if we give you fossil fuels for power it will cause the worlds oceans to rise and heat up the planet. Not direct quote.

        00

    • #
      NielsZoo

      Dear Leader Barak wasn’t “conned” by the Chinese. He really likes the idea of destroying our economy while destroying our Republic along with our freedoms… and a completely made up crisis like “climate change” is the perfect vehicle for the distopia that Progressives like him believe in (as much as they believe in anything other than their own selfish needs.)

      50

    • #
      bobl

      Amazingly inappropriate, I emailled the PM this morning urging him to ignore the church of climatolgy’s number 1 convert Obama on this issue. As far as I’m concerned this regressive president who is presiding over a country with 14 Trillion in debt, and only just now scraping out of the 09 recession when the rest of the world has had the recovery and are fighting off a new cycle.Obama has brilliantly managed to drag out the 09 recession into the ’15 one. I said to the PM that he should be giving the advice…

      30

    • #
      Jon

      Don’t forget that Obama is just supporting and promoting “The Plan” and UN, that is the official owner of the idea? I think Obama needs a new job in 2 years time and seems eager to get a good payed tax free position in the N Y UN building? Read http://www.mdpi.com/2076-0787/3/3/299/pdf 2, The Plan….

      00

  • #
    Bevan

    On 22 September, the winter maximum ice sheet extent across the Antarctic reached its greatest area since satellite measurement of the ice extent began in 1979.[1]

    This is consistent with satellite lower tropospheric temperature data for the South Polar region at Dr Roy Spencer’s Web site [2] which reveals a slight but not statistically significant rate of cooling for the region for the 36 years of satellite measurement.

    Coinciding with this, measurements of the atmospheric CO2 have been collected by NOAA at the South Pole and the data is available on the World Meteorological Organisation Web site [3] . It shows that the CO2 concentration has increased by 17.7% in the same period.

    Confirmation of this disparity is available on the WMO Web site where measurements by CSIRO are provided for the CO2 concentration at the Antarctic stations of Casey [4] and Mawson [5]. Comparison of the CO2 concentration with the station’s Average temperature data, available at the Bureau of Meteorology Web site [6], showed that both stations have experienced slight, -0.78 deg C per century at Casey and -1.43 deg C per century at Mawson, but not statistically significant cooling over the terms of the measurement. However the CO2 concentration has increased at Casey by 9% in 16.5 years and at Mawson 11.4% in 23 years.

    These results are clear evidence that the IPCC proposition that increasing atmospheric CO2 concentration causes warming of the Earth’s surface is invalid. As the rate of increase of atmospheric CO2 has been much the same across the whole of the globe, the above puts paid to the CO2 – global warming fraud.

    Sources: [1] http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2014/10/2014-melt-season-in-review/
    [2] http://www.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/t2lt/uahncdc_lt_5.6.txt
    [3] http://ds.data.jma.go.jp/gmd/wdcgg/pub/data/current/co2/monthly/spo789s00.noaa.as.fl.co2.nl.mo.dat
    [4] http://ds.data.jma.go.jp/gmd/wdcgg/pub/data/current/co2/monthly/cya766s00.csiro.as.fl.co2.nl.mo.dat
    [5] http://ds.data.jma.go.jp/gmd/wdcgg/pub/data/current/co2/monthly/maa767s00.csiro.as.fl.co2.nl.mo.dat
    [6] http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/data/?ref=ftr for stations 300017 and 300001.

    Bevan Dockery, B.Sc.(Hons), Grad. Dip. Computing, retired geophysicist.
    formerly: Fellow of the Australian Institute of Geoscientists,
    Member of the Australian Society of Exploration Geophysicists,
    Member of the Society of Exploration Geophysicists,
    Member of the European Association of Exploration Geophysicists,
    Member of the Australian Institute of Mining and Metallurgy.

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    • #
      manalive

      This is consistent with satellite lower tropospheric temperature data for the South Polar region at Dr Roy Spencer’s Web site [2] which reveals a slight but not statistically significant rate of cooling for the region for the 36 years of satellite measurement …

      The surface record back to 1957 shows no apparent trend also.

      40

      • #
        Bevan

        Thank you for that information and the link. I was not aware of the data plot.
        Which raises the question : why is there any dispute what-so-ever that ‘CO2 induces global warming’ is a false proposition and why are nations going ahead with stupid claims that they are going to stop climate change?

        20

  • #
    James Murphy

    What I am curious about, is what will be the next impending disaster which will demand immediate global action (by ‘the west’, or ‘rich’ countries, as all other countries are off-limits), and vast sums of other peoples money to ‘fix it’?

    What concerns me is that in its effort to be democratic and inclusive (because that’s how the best science is done /sarc), the IPCC has paved the way for all manner of lobby groups to claim legitimacy and authority via their association with the UN.

    Whatever the cause, I am sure it will not be one with an easy, cheap, or rapid solution (or it may have no solution at all), because that isn’t the way to really generate some good revenue, and we have seen how successful the AGW business model has been for the likes of Al Gore, so why would they change it?

    I would not be surprised if it was one of:
    the need for population control
    fighting ‘ocean acidification’
    global cooling (again)
    something related to magnetic pole reversal (mitigation of the effects, real, or perceived, rather than stopping it from happening)
    The dire need for a parallel system to the UN, which has more direct involvement with the way governments operate (obviously it would be stressed that it isn’t the start of a world government, and that it’s all for their own good…)

    I’m sure there is a lot more, but this is all I could think of in the time it took to type this…

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      It wouldn’t surprise me if all of the above get a run.
      Population control?
      I remember Paul Ehrlich addressing Adelaide University in the late 60′s. The world population would be 2.5 billion by 1975, and there would not be enough food to feed them, oil would run out and cannibals would stalk the mid-West of the USA. Despite making a string of predictions that failed he is still a respected guru of the Left (possibly they’re used to failed predictions e.g. the coming triumph of communism, the IPCC etc.)

      ‘ocean acidification’?
      this is so unlikely, and unbelievable by anyone with knowledge of chemistry, that getting up a big committee might be very hard. The opposition from Chemical Societies could be guaranteed.

      ‘global cooling’
      What remedy could they suggest? Burn more coal? A slight image problem.

      Magnetic pole reversal;
      Now that looks a winner. It is going to happen but no-one knows when. The claimed effects can be as scary as they like because again no-one knows what they will be, if any. But there is nothing they can do about it, so it might be harder to extract that much money.

      A parallel system to the UN? Over the UN’s dead body. Hmm, let’s think about the advantages.

      40

      • #
        James Murphy

        But times have changed. Look at the fact that there is a carbon trading market, governments are throwing good money after bad to build supremely inefficient things, no one can say anything against the ‘consensus’ without being ostracised or worse… simply because now, the propaganda mechanisms have been refined immensely, and we already have a generation of children/young adults who feel guilty about turning on a light switch, and fear the end of the world will come if they do not sort the recycling from the non-recyclables…

        It will not be hard to manipulate these people. Granted, there have always been massive scare campaigns, but never before has there been the internet, and a generation which is less well educated than the previous one.

        50

  • #
    pat

    the other side of the story, perhaps!

    15 Nov: Itar-Tass: Peskov rejects Putin allegedly leaves G20 summit over Ukraine situation pressure
    Russian presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov rejected reports that Vladimir Putin is allegedly leaving urgently the ongoing G20 summit over the pressure on him due to the situation in Ukraine.
    “This is full nonsense,” he said, adding that “Negotiators are raising this issue constantly.” “This is an ordinary routine situation,” he added.
    Several media reported earlier that the Russian leader planned to leave the G20 summit before its end over the pressure exerted on him over the situation around Ukraine.
    http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/759896

    our MSM is now quoting Peskov, and i wouldn’t be surprised if the first reports were beat-ups, but who knows?

    30

  • #
    pat

    spaking of MSM beat-ups!

    this story has nothing whatsoever to do with PM Abbott – it’s just a bit of Herald Sun nonsense:

    14 Nov: News Ltd: Anthony Sharwood: Hey President Obama, you’ve been to Australia three times but never visited Sydney or Melbourne. What’s up with that?
    WE’RE outraged. President Obama is on another visit to Australia as President, yet he still hasn’t set foot in Sydney or Melbourne…
    Now obviously, Mr Obama is a busy man. His schedule is his schedule. But we couldn’t help wondering if the POTUS had ever expressed his regret at coming so close, yet so far.
    We put this question to the US embassy in Canberra but they offered no comment. So we upped the ante and called the White House.
    A spectacularly polite guy picked up the phone and said he had no comment on the matter. He did, however, suggest we send an email…
    We also wished the president’s family and dog all the best.
    http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/hey-president-obama-youve-been-to-australia-three-times-but-never-visited-sydney-or-melbourne-whats-up-with-that/story-e6frflo9-1227122705436

    now look at what appears to be the original headline, same url! unbelievable. and this is Murdoch media:

    Sure Tony, I’ve thought of going to Sydney but you live there, right? Source: News Corp Australia
    NEWS.com.au‎ – 2 days ago

    20

  • #
    Peter C

    Jo Novace credited with burying the Hockey Stick
    WUWT 15 Nov 2014

    Bob Tsdale comments

    “Bob Tisdale November 15, 2014 at 5:11 am
    Doug L. Hoffman, you wrote about JoNovace, “To the best of my knowledge, she hasn’t been heard from since on WUWT.”

    JoNovace appeared here at WUWT from November 1 through November 7.

    JoNovace was from Australia…from a town southeast of Adelaide. I’ll leave it to others to speculate about the true identity of JoNovace.”

    My guess at present, based on content of the comments and writing style is that JoNovace is Miriam O’Brian of Hot Whopper

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  • #
    Neville

    Today’s Bolt report should be good.
    His editorial first up should give us the facts about Obama’s stupid stand on so called CAGW and his dumb agreement with China.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/on_the_bolt_report_today_november_16/

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  • #
    James Murphy

    What I fail to understand, is how the usual suspects in the anti-abbott brigade can condemn Tony Abbott for introducing, or wanting to introduce various laws with regards to metadata and access to ‘private’ information, yet they remain dead quiet about stories like this.

    Perhaps it’s an age thing, (I’m not that old – not quite 40, anyway), but I totally, and utterly fail to understand why it is acceptable for all but a handful of potential employers to be able to demand access to peoples private lives, just in case they may not behave in a manner which suits the reputation of the employer. To do this with the threat that if you do not comply then you will not get a job, is absolutely disgusting in my opinion. I would not hesitate to walk out of any job interview where this was asked of me. Fine, there are some jobs/security clearances where thorough background checks are done, and where friends/family can be interviewed as well, but these should be the exception, not the rule, surely?

    On one hand, I know full well that whatever one puts on the internet is not truly private, but I also think that if I decide to drink far too much on the weekend, and post about it via Facebook (so that no normal user who is not on my ‘friends’ list can see it anyway), or post stupid comments which may be open to misinterpretation by those who do not know me, then it should not affect my chances of employment. Why is it apparently acceptable for the usually ‘evil capitalists’ and ‘big business’ to have a say in how someone conducts themselves outside of their normal working hours??

    Where is the breathless and shrill campaigning by those odd Occupy people, or the duplicitous profiteers at Getup? I guess it’s because they think it’s ok… as long as it doesn’t generate too much CO2…

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  • #
  • #
    The Backslider

    Here they go again!

    Yes, let’s just destroy everything that we have.

    The comments are full of what I can only regard as “sick people”…… very sick.

    40

    • #
      James Murphy

      This is why I started wondering if, when the seas fail to rise at alarming rates, and the world doesn’t end, ‘overpopulation’ will be the new global panacea recommended by those out of work hacks and lobbyists who made such a profit from AGW. They know their customers, so to speak…

      I don’t think, if push comes to shove, any sane person wants to see the planet wrecked for the sake of a new iPhone every 5 minutes, but I also don’t think any same people would want us to revert to an Amish-like existence either. There is some middle ground somewhere… if the loony Conversation people would allow anyone to say so.

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    • #
      Peter C


      Matti Ressler
      Project Manager

      Is “climate change” “out of control”?

      Looking at the data, it appears not: http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/rss/from:1997/plot/rss/from:1997/trend

      Mike Hansen
      In reply to Matti Ressler

      Trying to insert your climate science denial into the discussion by cherrypicking a temperature record start date is off topic.
      http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics/Escalator_2012_500.gif

      Which one is the sick one?

      40

      • #
        The Backslider

        That thread is still running….. which is quite surprising for The Conversation!

        00

      • #
        The Backslider

        Well, it was good while it lasted.

        All comments by Matti Ressler and responses to them have now been removed.

        And they call it “The Conversation”?

        00

    • #
      Yonniestone

      This brazen show of contempt for peoples intellect and wishes they voted for has now ebbed into cultish enforcement of outcomes.

      The calculated dumbing down of the population is serving it’s purpose with the MSM well and truly roped into the movement, welcome to a brave new world where soon the POTUS will address another country informing them they must become impoverished, shouldn’t be breeding and it would be better if they were dead, and this speech will be met with rapturous applause and fornicating articles from this country.

      Sounds insane? well this just happened in Australia and for a long time now I’ve looked around at my country of birth, a country I love and wonder what the hell went wrong the people that were once held in high regard worldwide for intellect, tenacity, innovation and presence, all we’ve become is those other countries that we once looked at and said “I’m glad I don’t live there”.

      So for all you progressive young revolutionaries in University, the MSM, Public Service, or Government funded projects who are so elated to be at this threshold of this restoration of the planet, make sure you cherish those thoughts when these same great leaders deem it necessary for you to go without heating, cooling, power, motorized transport, right to vote, choice of housing, incomes or assets, choice of medication or doctor, career choice, or even choice to live.

      Good night and good luck.

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        James Murphy

        It’s a disgrace that such people have hijacked the term ‘progressive’ to describe their politics, when ‘regressive’ seems much more apt.

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          Yonniestone

          The term ‘regressives’ was hijacked recently and used on social media in the US by the left against Republicans, the irony was of course lost.

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          C.J.Richards

          The progression which they blindly pursue is of course the age old one , from bondage, through faith, to courage, winning liberty, that leads to abundance, which allows complacency, turning to apathy, leading to dependence and back into bondage.

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        Dariusz

        Yonniestone
        We assume that the history is just a relentless progress and somehow are astonished that the present is riddled with backward forces and stupidity. The truth of the matter is that progress is just like a little flame continuously extinguished and most of human history non-existent. For each Mozart we have thousands of killers. Somehow we think that because we went to the moon and we “know” universe history to just before the Big Bang we think that this is irreversible and humanity is somehow different and better, The star trek future is somehow unavoidable. Sadly history teaches us otherwise.
        Even geologists, a community that I professionally deal with, are riddled with idiots, people with no knowledge, no imagination, but all of them having an opinion. This is the intellectual elite and yet perhaps 5% would come close to the geoscientific Mozart level. Perhaps this is all we need for progress. Perhaps only 1 Einstein is enough to advance physics for the next 100 years?
        Given the historical odds going back to the Amish 17th century paradise is a reality that is quite probable. We feel like Galileo faced with inquisition and firely death and yet you will murmur quietly “there is no global warming”.

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          Yonniestone

          Dariuz I agree that civilizations rise and fall due to mostly human influences from the shallow end of the thought pool, it still doesn’t make it any easier witnessing it occurring.

          Considering the possibility of scientific inventions such as the ‘Baghdad Battery’ from 250 BC to the current feat of landing a man made probe on a comet travelling at 18kms per second we have a global persistent hive mentality that CO2 will destroy the planet in the sense that urinating in the ocean will cause SLR’s that will create a waterworld.

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    Steve McDonald

    It’s such a shame that Barack Obama proved to be a Hollywood flake with an arrogance, vindictiveness and ego to match.

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      NielsZoo

      The shame is the amount of damage he has caused. The rest of it was predictable and many of us said just that about him (and more) as far back as 2006.

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    Gary in Erko

    “Average temperature” – what does this mean? Please correct me if this is wrong – my understanding is that it’s the midpoint between the max and min temperatures for the day. But the midpoint between two extreme outliers is not known as the average in any other field. Is there a defined term in statistics for the midpoint between two outliers of a sample?

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      tom0mason

      “Average temperature” – what does this mean?

      “Average temperature” is a scientific term whereby extraneous data and obvious erroneous measurement artifacts are removed from temperature data-sets, and these data-sets are further processed by in-filling and homogenization to give a truer picture of all temperatures.

      A similar method can be applied in photography now that we are in the digital photography era.
      When you take a digital image you will notice that it is filled with extraneous details and camera generated defects. To enhance the picture requires processing by first analyzing the image and removing the areas where obvious brightness and hue values radically change when compared to the overall average of adjacent areas, and the average brightness and color values of the image.
      Next those areas now missing data are in-filled with averaged data from the surrounding areas to ensure the correct values are retained. Lastly the whole image area is homogenized to render the final “average image”. This is the true “average image” of the picture taken.

      Subsequent application of standard but specialized statistical methods to the image data renders accurate fine details from the “average image”, that were unseen before processing. These newly ‘gleaned’ fine details now rendered to their correct importance. Numerous statistical methods are available and are required if you wish to see all the fine details of your original picture. These statistical methods are a subset of the scientifically based package called the ‘Kludgey statistical method’.

      These processes are generally used daily, indeed most governments, broadcasters, and the MSM extensively use these methods.

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        Gary in Erko

        tomo, thanks, but that’s not the point of my question. I know there’s lots of weird things going on to fudge trends over time. As far as I understand, when someone refers to the average temperature for a day, they’re actually calculating the midpoint between the max and min for that day. Is that correct?
        The next point is, does this actually represent anything that can reasonably be stated in comparing the “average temperature” of one day to another. For instance, in a room full of people would the mid height between the extreme short and tall individuals have any statistical use?

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          Graeme No.3

          Gary in Erko;

          please stop trying to apply intelligence and logic to global warming; it is hysterical nonsense.

          Yes, older records were certainly averaged from maximum and minimum readings, as these were all that the instruments recorded. Of course if the result wasn’t acceptable it was homogenised, not to say shredded and/or discarded and replaced by a more suitable figure. In these days of digital thermometers and data loggers you can find any result you want, even if it only lasted for seconds.

          The plain fact is that the official figures from the BoM, NASA, NOAA or the Hadley Institute are fabrications and not worth spending any time studying.

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          tom0mason

          It is as useful as you would find the average color values and brightness of an image from one day to the next.

          So basically it boils down to how you wish to use the data. The data’s utility to actually show anything useful is very debatable as it has all the real useful features remove from it.

          It’s like asking what is the difference between two blurred photos and what does it mean.
          What indeed could it mean, if anything.
          or that -
          Global average of averages for today is 146.882 (+/- 0.8 kludgey points.)

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          tom0mason

          “For instance, in a room full of people would the mid height between the extreme short and tall individuals have any statistical use?”

          Could be useful to manufactures of clothing if your group is a fair sample of the population the manufacturer wishes to sell to. Otherwise it is a pointless metrix.

          And as useful is knowing averaged temperature data, certainly over the short term (less than about 60-100 years). Short term temperature patterns and their variations would be seen in these records. However daily average temperatures have no utility I can think of bar feeding the climate worriers more low calorie fuel. By the time a true long term trend is obvious (decades to centuries) it is too late to fix.

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    pat

    some fun about the limitations of solar and the ANTHROPOMORPHING of the Philae lander. from the first press conference, i felt something had gone wrong, but the MSM kept up the pretense that it was all a huge success. now, the MSM is not including the cost, & only Gizmodo appears to include the fact the lander was to collect data til March 2015. if u were excited by this mission, fine, but this is still good comedy material:

    reminds me of Python’s Dead Parrot sketch:

    14 Nov: Gizmodo: Sarah Zhang: Rosetta’s Lander Is Now asleep on the Comet, Waiting For a Brighter Sun
    Goodnight, Philae, though not, we hope, goodbye. The lander is now in sleep mode, keeping “all instruments and most systems on board shut down…
    From now on, no contact would be possible unless sufficient sunlight falls on the solar panels to generate enough power to wake it up…
    Philae’s solar panels weren’t getting enough sun, and when the initial charge on its battery ran out, it went dark, long before its planned March 2015 end date…
    http://gizmodo.com/rosettas-lander-is-now-asleep-but-not-entirely-dead-o-1658916995

    Nature: Philae, the plucky comet lander from the European Space Agency’s Rosetta mission, was confirmed today as alive and well, but sitting in a precarious position.

    BBC: Philae comet lander: Sleep well little probe
    If this is the last we hear from the robot, history will be very quick to judge this mission as an astonishing success…
    Yes, the robot had some systems failures in its landing mechanisms, but it would be churlish in the extreme to dwell on these shortcomings…
    And it has been a blast. This past week’s events really caught the world’s attention.
    So how about we do it again? This is the dream certainly of many who control Philae’s mothership, Rosetta.

    BBC: Philae comet lander sends more data before losing power
    The little probe delivered everything expected from it, just as its failing battery dropped it into standby mode…
    Professor Mark McCaughrean, senior scientific adviser to the ESA, told BBC Radio 5 live they were “hugely happy”.
    He said: “All of the science instruments on board have done all the work they were supposed to do so we have huge amounts of data back on the ground now, which is really exciting…

    BBC: PHOTO CAPTION: Astrophysicist Elizabeth Pearson: “Philae is not dead it’s just sleeping”

    Guardian: Despite the awkward landing, by Friday Stephan Ulamec, Philae lander manager, estimated that 80% of the science Esa was hoping for had been achieved…

    Daily Mail: Rosetta scientists admit they don’t actually know where Philae is.

    NOTHING AMUSES ME MORE THAN LISTENING TO THOSE WHO CLAIM THIS MISSION IS VITAL IN CASE THERE IS A CATACLYSMIC EVEN ON EARTH CAUSED BY CAGW (nudge nudge, wink, wink) AND WE NEED TO COLONISE ANOTHER PLANET. REALLY? JUST HOW MANY OF THE 7 BILLION PLUS WOULD GET TO MAKE THE TRIP? CERTAINLY, NONE OF THE PEOPLE I’VE HEARD ESPOUSING THIS THEORY.

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      James Murphy

      Well, I for one, have marvelled at this mission. I think Philae would have been ok if there had been more, or maybe less CO2 somewhere.

      It’s perfect example of why we need to implement a tax on gravity, urgently…

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      Peter C

      Very strange that they did not include a reliable nuclear power plant on board the craft. They were used on the voyagers with excellent results.

      The disadvantage of renewable solar has never been more apparent. Solar cells don’t work when the sun does not shine

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    pat

    16 Nov: ABC: Sending a message: signs from the G20 summit
    SCROLL DOWN FOR THE SMUG MISS “COAL KILLS”
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-15/signs-of-g20/5894234

    Mark Kenny has written the following without a hint of irony!

    16 Nov: Age: Mark Kenny: G20 summit: Barack Obama turns up the heat
    In a speech on the sidelines of the G20 summit in Brisbane, Mr Obama also had strong words for potential aggressor states
    such as China, Russia and North Korea, warning them never to “question our resolve or our commitments to our allies” and that the “rule of force must give way to the rule of law”…
    Fairfax Media understands that climate change will now be specifically mentioned in the final G20 communique,
    including a reference to the responsibility of member nations to take material action. That represents a substantial win for Mr Obama,
    who has succeeded in making the G20 summit address the issue irrespective of the reluctance of the host…
    He directly linked climate change to bushfires…
    Obama’s pivot to Asia: “Day in, day out, steadily, deliberately, we will continue to deepen our engagement using every element of our power,” he said.
    http://www.theage.com.au/queensland/brisbane-g20/g20-summit-barack-obama-turns-up-the-heat-20141115-3kfov.html

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    TdeF

    Can you imagine what life would be like without blogs like this? It may be an impression but most journalists seem to be anti Abbott, left leaning socialist, even Green types who have formed a class of their own. This may be a result of our public service ABC with 1,000 journalists who all agree with each other or they do not get a job. University History departments the same. So without blogs we would be making judgments on what we are told by people in authority like Obama and our Government funded scrupulously non biased ABC and our view of the world around us would be livid Green.

    It is time to remove government from the media and so the media from government. The ABC needs to be broken up and sold. In size and reach it would be illegal under Australian broadcasting rules and this without any visible restraint or accountability.

    The whole of Australia was behind Abbott’s attempt to get answers and assistance from Putin for our 38 murdered people on holidays, but the ABC could only ridicule both Abbott and Putin. In their world apparently anyone who is athletic is a jock and an idiot. We no longer need such abuse from an anachronism, 5,000 people in a public broadcaster all doing their own thing and acting blatantly as a political party.

    There are only two types of people in Australia now, those who watch the ABC and those who do not. Neither group want to pay for it. So sell the ABC. There will be a home for Peppa Pig instantly, unless Mark Scott threatens to have the pig put down, again.

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      TdeF:

      It says lot about the ABC programs that they threaten the pig, not their news, currents affairs or their political broadcasts. They know that precious few in Australia would miss them, so it is “take one step closer and the pig gets it”.

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  • #
    TdeF

    Despite the general warmth shown by Barack Obama and his speech which was received with fawning praise by the Australian press, consider his basic message. Your conservative government is completely out of touch. Your Prime Minister is an idiot and has his agenda and his priorities wrong. He is utterly wrong on Climate Change. The good things are the sunshine, the beaches, the Great Barrier Reef and the beer. Glad to be here. I might come back with the grandkids for a holiday. Thanks for coming. Have a great day.

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      farmerbraun

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPi9HYODBjc

      Some people’s hot
      Some people’s cold
      Some people’s not very
      Swift to behold
      Some people do it
      Some see right through it
      Some wear pyjamas
      If only they knew it

      The pyjamas people are boring me to pieces
      They make me feel like I am wasting my time
      They all got flannel up ‘n down ‘em
      A little trap-door back aroun’ ‘em
      An’ some cozy little footies on their mind

      Po-jama people!
      Po-jama people, people!
      Lawd, they make you sleepy
      With the things they might say
      Po-jama people!
      Po-jama people, people!
      Mother, mary ‘n jozuf, wish they’d all go away!

      Po-jama people!
      It’s a po-jama people special…
      Take one home with you & save a dollar today
      Po-jama people!
      Po-jama people, people!
      Wrap ‘em up
      Roll ‘em out
      Get ‘em out of my way

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      FIN

      Beautifully summed up TdeF. He certainly nailed the whingeing Abbott. That was very embarrassing, whingeing about his domestic political problems at an international forum. The guy is a toxic cretin in serious denial.

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        the Griss

        “The guy is a toxic cretin in serious denial.”

        That Obama guy most definitely is that !!

        ZERO credibility. !!

        No wonder you worship him…… the similarity is amazing.

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          the Griss

          Americans have realised just how dangerously toxic the dictatorial ignorance of Obama is.

          He is a wacko idealist with zero understanding of climate reality, flatly lying about many aspects just to try to make a name for himself

          His legacy will be pure poison for the USA if the Republican led Congress can’t shut down his idiotic agenda.

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    farmerbraun

    The PM of Godzone, Jong Ki, is reported to be “relaxed” about the G20 moves to address climate change.
    I suspect that he is being totally disingenuous in this. On the one hand , the alarmists are hearing what they want to hear.
    And on the other hand , those of us who believe that the climate changes slowly and naturally are inclined to agree that contingency plans, to cover any adverse effects of changing climate , are not necessarily an altogether stupid thing to have.

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    C l i m a t e  R e s e a r c h e r 

    I’m not sure why people have difficulty understanding that the air or gas in the gap between double glazing acts just like that in a planet’s troposphere. The hotter pane of glass represents the surface and the colder pane the tropopause. Let’s imagine that at the tropopause radiation to space can happen, rather like happens from the methane layer near the top of the nominal troposphere of Uranus. If the rest of the troposphere (or the gap) were totally dry air (or some non-radiating gas like argon) then thermal energy would still transfer through the troposphere by (stationary) conduction and diffusion processes. By the process is slow. If we add water vapour (or carbon dioxide) then (as with moist air in the double glazing) the insulation effect is reduced because intermolecular radiation (and radiation direct to the tropopause or beyond) helps the thermal energy to leap frog (at the speed of light) over the slower moving energy going up by non-radiative processes. No thermal energy can be transferred back by radiation to lower, warmer regions. Yes the radiation can go downwards, but it is immediately re-emitted by electrons in any and all regions that are warmer than the source of the radiation. Its electro-magnetic energy is not converted to thermal energy and so it does not raise the temperature of whatever it strikes.

    The most prolific greenhouse gas, water vapour, cools rather than warms. Empirical evidence (using real world temperature and precipitation) proves this to be the case. The more water vapour you have, the more clouds there are shading the surface and reflecting energy back to space.

    The base temperature which the IPCC says is 255K is not that low, because they deducted 30% of the solar radiation supposedly reflected back to space by clouds which could not exist in the absence of water vapour on their imaginary Earth with no greenhouse gases. Using the correct radiative flux of about 341W/m^2 we get a temperature of 278K, not 255K. I’m hoping that even Australian politicians can understand this point.

    Once we have water vapour setting the radiative altitude at, say, 4.5Km, then, even if 98% of the atmosphere were then replaced with carbon dioxide, the radiating altitude could not rise above about 7Km in a troposphere only 11Km high. So this 2.5Km raising would be only 1 metre if only 1 molecule in 2,500 were carbon dioxide. And 1 metre represents only about 0.007 degree at the surface. There are other reasons why carbon dioxide cools more than this, but you can spend your billions and raise your concerns as much as you like about that 0.007 degree.

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    Roy Hogue

    If you live in the U.S. you may not hear about this unless you watch Fox News or visit the right sites. So here’s the story behind Obamacare in a nutshell. It was designed to be a wealth distributing plan, not for medical care of anyone. They couldn’t care less if you get good care or not.

    It was also designed to kill off all employer healthcare benefits.

    There are links in the article that I recommend you follow.

    Please pass this to anyone you know who is an Obamacare supporter. For that matter, pass it to opponents of this monstrosity too.

    How do you spell “screwed”? O-b-a-m-a-c-a-r-e, that’s how.

    Roy

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    Pat Lane

    Pat — thank you. Sigh. Yes I am aware of it. If you can bear to tune in. I would be very happy to hear from you! – Jo.

    Jo,

    I’m not sure if this is the correct way to bring something to your attention. If not, I apologise.

    I’m a fan of MOOCS (Massive On-line Open Courses). In fact I became interested in global warming after a self study program on chaos theory and non-linear dynamics.

    The other day I found a beauty: University of Queensland is offering a course to cure me of climate skepticism. It’s called “Making Sense of Climate Science Denial” and I’ve included a link and the course blurb below. The subject will be staffed by no less that 12 climate experts.

    The blurb starts with the “97%” rule and promises to teach me how to respond to myths like “global warming is caused by the sun”. Later on I’ll learn all about my psychological problems: “Finally, armed with all this knowledge, you’ll learn the psychology of misinformation.”

    I’ve signed up for this course which starts in March next year.

    The course should be interesting. I can’t wait!

    Pat

    https://www.edx.org/node/4371#.VGkQV8krdXo

    Making Sense of Climate Science Denial

    Climate change is real, so why the controversy and debate? Learn to make sense of the science and to respond to climate change denial.
    About this Course

    In public discussions, climate change is a highly controversial topic. However, in the scientific community, there is little controversy with 97% of climate scientists concluding humans are causing global warming.

    Why the gap between the public and scientists?
    What are the psychological and social drivers of the rejection of the scientific consensus?
    How has climate denial influenced public perceptions and attitudes towards climate change?

    This course examines the science of climate science denial.

    We will look at the most common climate myths from “global warming stopped in 1998” to “global warming is caused by the sun” to “climate impacts are nothing to worry about.”

    We’ll find out what lessons are to be learnt from past climate change as well as better understand how climate models predict future climate impacts. You’ll learn both the science of climate change and the techniques used to distort the science.

    With every myth we debunk, you’ll learn the critical thinking needed to identify the fallacies associated with the myth. Finally, armed with all this knowledge, you’ll learn the psychology of misinformation. This will equip you to effectively respond to climate misinformation and debunk myths.

    This isn’t just a climate MOOC; it’s a MOOC about how people think about climate change.

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      D o u g  C o t t o n

      To all:

      Beware – global warming starts again in the year 2029, (as we can deduce from planetary orbits) so CO2 will be blamed again unless and until you realise that there is absolutely no valid physics supporting the conjecture that it helps the Sun to raise the daily maximum temperature anywhere on Earth – or on Venus for that matter.

      Hansen and Pierrehumbert made the huge mistake of forgetting that there would be no clouds in an Earth with “greenhouse” gases like water vapour, etc. That’s how they got 255K (with 33 degrees of warming) instead of 278K from 341W/m^2 striking the dry, rocky surface of such a planet.

      Some readers probably realise that there are more clouds shading the surface in regions where water vapour is highest and temperatures are thus lower than similar but drier regions. Such readers may be able to help their climatology friends to have a look at the real world.

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    Stupendus

    Lets all enroll in denial 101 with COok at Uni of Qld
    https://www.edx.org/course/uqx/uqx-denial101x-making-sense-climate-4371#.VGSF0FddCLw
    we would all fail of course but would be fun

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    Stupendus

    “This course examines the science of climate science denial.

    We will look at the most common climate myths from “global warming stopped in 1998” to “global warming is caused by the sun” to “climate impacts are nothing to worry about.”

    We’ll find out what lessons are to be learnt from past climate change as well as better understand how climate models predict future climate impacts. You’ll learn both the science of climate change and the techniques used to distort the science.

    With every myth we debunk, you’ll learn the critical thinking needed to identify the fallacies associated with the myth. Finally, armed with all this knowledge, you’ll learn the psychology of misinformation. This will equip you to effectively respond to climate misinformation and debunk myths.”

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      the Griss

      gotta love that last bit on their blurb.

      “Basic high school science recommended.”

      roflmao !! How to kick an own goal, Kook !

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    James McCown

    Any of you seen this paper? It’s a good one:

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031018214003654

    Using sediment data from a lake in Brazil, shows a significant Medeival Warm Period and Little Ice Age. As many of you know, the warmists have been trying to claim that the MWP was confined to Europe. This is from a lake in Brazil in the western hemisphere, and south of the equator.

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    D o u g  C o t t o n

    And Australia’s PM Tony Abbott this week had a big disagreement with Obama over climate change. Tony must be starting to heed the book and emails I have sent him.

    Climate change is all natural and quite beyond mankind’s control. Carbon dioxide does not warm at all, but it does improve agricultural production.

    And warm air is not necessarily rising just because there is a temperature gradient. Do you see clouds continually rising with such air pushing them up? Why is there still a temperature gradient within the cloud?

    In his “Gold Standard of Climatology” book Principles of Planetary Climate Raymond Pierrehumbert quite specifically stated that, in the absence of all greenhouse gases, the troposphere would be isothermal. But an isothermal state would have unbalanced energy potentials with more gravitational potential energy at the top.

    Thus Pierrehumbert throws the Second Law of Thermodynamics out the window,

    Because of this fundamental error, the greenhouse conjecture is smashed.

    Who do you believe?

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    D o u g  C o t t o n

    When will you all stop being so gullible as to be bluffed by the “fissics” of Hansen and Pierrehumbert from Climatology Carbonland? The electro-magnetic energy in radiation from a cooler troposphere to a warmer surface is not converted to thermal energy in that surface. Never was. Never will be.

    You can’t explain how a planet’s surface temperature is maintained at observed levels unless and until you can explain the necessary energy flows. It’s no use just arguing that the radiative altitude increases by 1 metre from 5,000m to 5,001m (when adding 0.04% carbon dioxide) because the temperature gradient can also change, as we know it does with increases in water vapour. None of this argument explains the energy flows. You cannot add back radiative flux to solar flux and use the total in Stefan Boltzmann calculations, and nor does the surface act like a black or grey body anyway, because it does not meet the definition of such.

    00