JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

A home for lost thoughts.

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Weekend Unthreaded, 7.7 out of 10 based on 26 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/l6sn3ru

239 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

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      tom0mason

      Tim
      Just 2 things -

      1.
      Your link is malformed (erroneously gives http://http//www.naturalnews.com/046192_peer_review_fraud_scientific_journals.html) when clicked. It is not as you have written on your comment.

      2.
      My browser advises me that there is an error with the security certification – though that maybe a browser error I can’t tell.

      Site looks OK.

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      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        My browser, which runs extremely slowly because of the layers of security it has, just won’t go there at all.

        I could find out why, but it is a Sunday, and I have better things to do.

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      • #
        Tim

        For some reason, the date gets into the hyperlink. All I can suggest is that you cut and paste into the Natural News site (if you have the time.)

        Sorry about that.

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        • #
          ROM

          Can’t open the link direct either but copy and paste the link into Google search and then open the link from the links Google throws up. The link should be right at the top of the list
          It will open from there or at least it does on my Mac safari browser.

          July 27th date;
          Peer-review mafia ring busted; science journal forced to retract 60 papers after fabricated reviews exposed

          The above article dated July 27th is actually quite old news from some 3 or 4 weeks ago on a Peter Chen of Taiwan who set up his own phony peer reviews on some 60 papers he had supposedly written including doing his own peer reviewing under an alias.

          It orginally appeared in Retraction Watch on July 9th as “SAGE Publications busts “peer review and citation ring,” 60 papers retracted”.
          It has forced the resignation of Taiwan’s education minister as posted also in Retraction Watch

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    • #

      Just a link. No comment.

      Besides being rude, it’s the hallmark of spammers and those who want to suck people into their web site so that they can install malware on many more computers.

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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Tim et al,

      The server you linked to, http://www.naturalnews.com, doesn’t exist by that URL. So nothing on that site can be reached.

      Open the Windows Command prompt window and type:

      ping http://www.naturalnews.com

      followed by enter and see the message. This browser adds http:// in front of what I typed but you can leave that off. It’s not part of the URL but specifies the type of service requested from the server. I can’t tell if the URL was previously valid (translated to an IP address) or not but it doesn’t exist now.

      ping is a basic means of testing if a URL is known to DNS servers, in other words, known to the Internet and translates to a server IP address that can be reached.

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    The Black Adder

    G’day Guys and Girls,
    Long time no post. Good to be back.
    Interested to get everyone’s thoughts on the New World Order, the UN, the Globalists and Ebola.
    Is this Bill Gates and George Soros’s population plan to trim 95% of our world population, so the Polar Bears will be ok?

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    • #
      Richard111

      The ‘population trim plan’ is forging ahead even though they were short changed by poor performance of SC24. Interesting that ‘extreme weather’, as reported during the 1970s cooling scare, is now blamed on increasing levels of CO2. That is a win-win call as ‘they’ know the world is cooling. Many strange events going on around the world to ensure access to reliable energy becomes more difficult. Russian gas, German nuclear and here in the UK a fire takes one of the biggest power stations in Europe off line for this coming winter. Not sure about the fire in Libya but it will add to the problem.
      If you have any doubts simply check food prices. America reports more than 10% price increase in just six months! Here in the UK it is similar. As a pensioner I must keep an eye on all costs and they are ALL increasing.

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      The New World Order is currently on hold, because nobody thought to invite the Chinese Mafia.

      Similarly, the UN is in disarray because somebody has stolen all of the sugar tongs. The North Korean delegation is suspected, because tongs are integral to the firing of any rockets in North Korea. Without the tongs, rockets tend to burn out quickly, and land on members of their own population.

      The Globalists are also not having a good time of it, because somebody has pointed out that glow-balls do not give enough light to make a concert really spectacular.

      But today’s good news is that the Elbola virus is to become protected under new EPA Regulations that recognizes viruses, as an integral part of the environment.

      Does that bring you back up to speed?

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      • #
        Tim

        At least the Ebola Virus will not get me. Luckily, I never go to bowling alleys.

        (P.S. Thanks to ROM and his Mac.)

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        • #
          ROM

          Tim @ 2.2.1

          You are probably aware that Google has very sophisticated text correction algorithms as a part of it’s search engine.

          You can see this when you type in text to the search panel and get some of the spelling incorrect but often, if the word being spelt is somewhere near the correct spelling, Google search will usually correct the text and provide a list of options based on your original text entry but with the spelling corrected.

          It is doing this more and more, too much so in my opinion as I often get frustrated when I type in a perfectly valid word and phrase to the Google search panel that might be a bit unusual and Google then decides that I want something else other than I that which I typed in. And then goes on to refuse to be corrected despite my efforts to do so.
          The solution here is to start juggling the sequence of the search wording or to try some different terminology which amounts to the same meaning as the original search request.
          Or try other search engines such as Bing and etc.

          The heart and soul, if Google knows what “heart and soul” means which in the Google corporation’s case is very doubtful, is a search engine’s ability to recognise the relevant to the search URL’s but not necessarily the precise and exact URL’s that will give the customer what he is looking for.
          Hence the lists of alternative sites that one can choose from.
          So URL’s are also corrected by the a search engine’s highly sophisticated and very secretive and very carefully guarded for commercial purposes, search algorithms.

          For myself when searching I run an eye over the lists of proposed sites thrown up from my search terms. From the way in which both the terminology plus the phraseology of a Google search originated headline of a potential source is constructed, one can often tell at a glance if that source is relevant and if it is a reputable source of information that is relevant to your search terms.

          The next step is to run over those URL’s under each site’s headline .
          Just checking those URL’s will usually give one the information as to the origin of the information in the site, whether that site is a reputable organisation such as a university or research organisation site as examples and not some activist way out there card board cut out site, that the site is informative, accurate and is relatively unbiased in it’s information.

          That checking of the URL’s for each site that appears to suit my search terms is a must for me and eliminates at a guess, probably about 80% of most of Googles lists of sites that appear to meet my search terms.
          And sometimes a perusal of the URL’s can lead to finding a site with some interesting information for which the headline is quite mis-leading.

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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      The new world order must still be alive because Barack Obama has mentioned it. I think it’s what was on his mind all along, not just changing America but the whole world.

      Right now if he was a ship he’d be running bilge pumps for all he’s worth and sending out an SOS like crazy. One scandal after another has him trying desperately to alibi his way out. And with every tall story his new mouthpiece tells it gets worse.

      I’m enjoying it, frankly. He can still go to some event and be his old jaunty, devil take the hindmost self, while he ridicules his opponents. But recent pictures of him in moments when he’s all alone with nothing but his thoughts he looks quite worried and anything but his publicly calm and assured community organizer self. Recent shots of him getting off his helicopter at the White House and waving to whoever he waves at show a man worried and harried. He looks like there’s a ton of bricks on his shoulders. And there is.

      As much as I dislike this man and all he stands for I think it a great tragedy to see the President of the United States in self destruct mode. But I hope he does indeed self destruct and take his party with him.

      Some are now offering a 60% chance that Republicans will take over the senate and make gains in the house. It’s too soon to tell. There’s good evidence that he was elected both times with the help of voter/election fraud and all that machinery is still working and Democrats have a bankroll the envy of many whole nations. It is true that you can buy your way into office if your opponent can’t afford to counter every political ad you put in front of the voters.

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        Greg Cavanagh

        I looked into Obama’s background when he was running for president. He had almost no background, hadn’t done anything, and really was a nobody from nowhere.

        Under those circumstances it should have been impossible to win a presidency. I watched some of early speeches while needing two teleprompters. He was useless and hopeless at public speaking. He was unskilled and unqualified.

        There must be some powerful men behind that scam. I’m seeing a pattern with scams, they’re always stupid.

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          Gee Aye

          BA’s bait well and truly taken. Or was that a joke?

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          Roy Hogue

          Greg,

          Comment 1:

          I really think he’s a phenomenon very much like the theme in the movie, Being There, Peter Sellers’ finest role, where mentally retarded Chance, the gardener for a wealthy man starts wandering the streets after his benefactor dies and ends up being Chauncey Gardener, advisor to the rich and famous through a series of mistaken interpretations of what Chance says to those he meets. How Obamaesque can you get? Obama seems to want only to “be there”, at least outwardly, doesn’t he?

          I’ve probably mentioned this before so if I did please forgive me. But the analogy is so apt I can’t escape it. The man and the circumstances are quite different of course. Chance was harmless and Obama is quite malevolent. But still, I get a strange feeling just thinking about it.

          At the end Chauncey’s new benefactor dies and we see Chance walking toward a lake on the estate and continue walking right on out on the perfectly still surface of the water. Obama is seemingly approaching that stage of his little fantasy but I don’t believe he’ll be able to walk on the water without sinking.

          Neither man, Chance nor Obama, has a thing to recommend him to anyone, not one thing. But Sellers as Chance the gardener was at least highly entertaining.

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          • #

            No Roy, he was clearly placed there by others. He didn’t actually serve any terms in any constituency in the early 2000s or write books or any of that stuff, it was all planted history that just appeared when he suddenly appeared from nowhere.

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              Roy Hogue

              And you have exactly what substantiation for what you just said?

              He certainly had help along the way, lots of it. But the faking of all or a major part of his life’s history is tough to pull off. Are you implying that he’s had help of the sort the witness protection service can provide to hide someone from harm after testifying in a criminal matter? I doubt it.

              Authorship of his books is not doubted by anyone, though he no doubt had help there too. But of what benefit would it be to anyone’s cause to fake his, Dreams From My Father?

              Obama is many things, all bad. But he’s a real man with a real history, much of which we know, at least if we use good judgment instead of worrying about his damned birth certificate all the time.

              In any case, we need to fight the current situation and I don’t thinkyour opinion helps us understand what that situation is.

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              • #
                Gee Aye

                Oh dear. Roy, I’ll be more careful not to provoke you in future. I never realised.

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              • #
                Roy Hogue

                Sorry there, Gee Aye. But it was you who pulled the trigger, not I. And your response above tells me I’m most likely right. You haven’t any substantiation for what you said.

                When I say something I have something to back me up and can explain why I think as I do. I may not be right but you’ve never seen me reply with anything like, “Oh dear. Roy, I’ll be more careful not to provoke you in future. I never realised.”

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              • #
                Roy Hogue

                And yes, I’ve been known to lay some ridicule on someone. But I don’t do it in response to a legitimate request for substantiation.

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        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Greg,

          Comment 2:

          There’s no doubt someone or group is behind Obama. But Obama had to be there with his own ambition to be taken advantage of. Not many in or outside of politics would have done. Obama is the front man like no other. Would any other senator have been useful? Would Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid have filled the bill?

          I don’t think so.

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          • #
            Roy Hogue

            Think about it. Obama was a poor kid, lost and wandering until he found his inspiration from his father’s quest to end colonialism in Africa. He literally incorporated his father’s dream as his dream. But he was still that lost little boy until someone found him and offered this pliable lost little boy, now an adult, his life’s dream, a way to get back at the world.

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        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Greg:

          Comment 3:

          I recognized him as an empty suit the very first time I heard him speak. The words were seductive (never good), the plans were grand and no one with half the intelligence it takes to do a useful job would speak such an empty line of BS.

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      • #
        me@home

        The Gold Urinal

        Several days after President Obama was re-elected president, he went over
        to see Bill and Hillary Clinton for dinner at their spacious home.
        After drinking several glasses of beer, he asked his host if he could use
        his personal bathroom.

        When he entered Bill Clinton’s private toilet, he was astonished to see that Clinton had
        a golden urinal! Wow!

        The next day, Obama told his wife, Michelle, about the urinal in Clinton’s private
        lavatory. “Just think,’ he said, ‘maybe I should get a gold urinal too.
        But on the other hand I think that it may be just a bit too self-indulgent…even for a guy like me!”

        Later in the week, when Michelle had lunch with Hillary, she told Hillary how
        impressed her husband had been at his discovering that Bill had a gold urinal in his private bathroom.

        Later that day, when Bill got home, Hillary smiled and said to Bill:

        “I found out who pissed in your saxophone.”

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    • #
      ROM

      Just my thoughts so make of them what you will.

      On the” New World Order”.
      Cyrus the Great of Persia, today’s Iran, tried that one back in about 600 BCE. It all came to sudden stop when he was reputedly killed in battle while trying to extend his rule over more independent peoples.

      Then the Romans tried their various versions of the New World Order over a close to 500 or 600 year time span and probably got closer than anybody before or since in achieving that over what is sometimes somewhat laughably called the known world, or known from the very limited european / Mediterranean based Roman Empire perspective.
      What the Chinese in their various powerful kingdoms thought of it at the time isn’t mentioned,
      But the Romans were still a hell of a long way from ever getting there as the Huns, Vandals and Goths all figured out that they weren’t going to be ruled by a bunch of dissipated Roman overlords so it was a case of push off sport or we will make a fight of it.
      And they did and the Romans got a very bloody nose out of it in the end.. So end of Roman version of the NWO.

      Genghis Khan of the Mongols was the next lot to try it and again came close until the big wheel fell over after a horrific nose bled which he died from in his mid forties. The Mongols kept the empire thing going for a while but Genghis Khan’s successors in the usual fashion got to fighting amongst themselves and that was the end of the Mongol’s version of the New World Order.

      The Spanish had a go at the New World Order and got most of the so called New World under their control but ran into the Portugese who figured they owned some of the New World as well which is why thanks to the Pope drawing a line down through the continent, the Treaty of Tordesillas, Brazil speaks a version of Portuguese and the western side of South America speaks a version of Spanish.

      The Portugese, Dutch, Spanish, even the Germans, somewhat regularly as we know and Poms all figured that their version of the New world Order was the only correct one and it was the British who lasted the longest and have come closest to a version of the New World Order in language, law, culture, area under British rule and control of the flow of wealth.

      Lenin’s Bolsheviks and Stalin with his Soviet Russia had a damn good go at imposing their version of a New World Order on everybody and everything within reach but again the perverseness of the so called Free Nations and even one of Stalin’s soul mates in politics, Mao Zedong refused to go along with Stalin’s or Khrushchev’s or any of the other procession of Soviet leaders ambitions for their versions of the New World Order.
      Mao after all had his own version of the NWO to implement and it wasn’t going to be kowtowing to Stalin and his Soviets either.

      Possibly the closest we have ever become to a NWO in modern times was the Copenhagen Conference debacle of late 2009 where the Greenpeace and other unelected unrepresentative environmental swill ll openly claimed that they would have seats at the table of the organisation that was to control world governments emmisions and therefore their economies and therefore their national objectives and peoples.
      We know what happened there and thank God Obama wasn’t the US president then.

      Now the Islamists have openly proclaimed that their version of NWO is their intention also.
      Which gives a pretty good reason for always opposing to the maximum any attempts to impose such an invariably hate creating hate filled, human slave intended order of organisation onto human kind

      All of these outfits from long before Cyrus all had very powerful and wealthy vested interests who tried to make damn sure by pushing the Big Boss to extend their sphere of influence as well as increase their wealth and power by extending that power and influence over others despite what those others might think of it.
      Consequently just like today, the constant belief of some that some sort of New Order that gives power over everybody and everything to a few powerful and secretive individuals will seem to temporally get close to the goal until the sheer perverseness, the jealousies, the equal desire for similar power and influence by those outside of the inner circle and eventually the inevitable demise, age and death of the instigators will ensure that the New World Order will remain an unfulfilled, hate creating dream of a few individuals whose lust for power and wealth leaves a legacy of pain, suffering , death and destruction across all of civilised societies

      History tells us that every attempt to impose such an order onto unwilling peoples all came very badly unstuck and finished up backfiring rather nastily on the instigators as most peoples and nations are somewhat definite in that those bloody foreigners aren’t going to tell us what to do .
      In short human perverseness, those damn skeptics who question everything and everybody’s role and who challenge anybody who tries to control them will invariably, as history has so amply demonstrated, refuse to accept a rule imposed by another and which is against their will.
      And some of them will, can and do fight to ensure they are free and will continue to be free to do as they wish with their lives.

      The New world Order will remain a dream of a few very powerful and secretive figures but as history has so regularly demonstrated, the inherent perverseness and the tribal affiliations of human kind will invariably neuter any and every attempt to impose NWO on our global society far into the foreseeable future.

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    • #
      Ursus Augustus

      No comment on your list of topics but over at Judity Curry there is a post about what she calls the Kardashian Index, opening with the following

      I am concerned that phenomena similar to that of Kim Kardashian may also exist in the scientific community. I think it is possible that there are individuals who are famous for being famous. – Neil Hall

      The Oz Kardashian list:-

      Tim Flannery, Bob Brown, Stephan Lewandowsky, John Cook etc

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      • #
        the Griss

        Is the circus coming to town?

        Plenty of clowns in that short list. :-)

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        Roy Hogue

        Shades of Paris Hilton — worthless but worth millions she inherited (or will inherit) and famous for little more than being alive and having a lot of money.

        But Paris Hilton at least had some sex appeal. These guys don’t even have that.

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          Bob Malloy

          Sex appeal, Paris Hilton? NOOOOOOOOOO. Sex tape yes, sex appeal I don’t think so.

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            Roy Hogue

            Bob,

            I was being as polite as I could. Would you prefer arousal appeal?

            If not, I can think of other even less polite terms but I’d rather not use them. ;-)

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  • #

    Okay then, it is an Unthreaded Post where every topic is on topic.

    I’m currently in the middle of doing my usual Sunday Music Post at my home site, and it raises an interesting question, and I’d like some feedback.

    Now all of us are different ages, and our appreciation of music as it becomes part of our lives usually starts at around the time we start High School, so we’re usually 12 or 13. The music of the next ten years or so then becomes the music of our era, and as we go through our lives the music from that era stays as our favourite brand of music. There will always be new songs as we go through life which we will like, music from more recent eras. When we first begin to appreciate music, we then think that it belongs to us, if you can see the point here. At the same time, we’re not all that keen on the music from our parent’s era, and in the main, that was from ten years or longer before we started to appreciate music. Similarly, as we grow and have children of our own, when they finally reach the age where they start to appreciate music, we, from our era, are sometimes not all that keen on their brand of music.

    Now, when I started to appreciate music, it was the early and mid 60′s probably the golden age of popular/rock music, and I identify with music from those ten to fifteen years, and I like music now from most eras, both before my time, and music from the here and now, and all years in between, even though I’m still not all that fussed by Rap Music, except for Blondie’s Rapture.

    But what of this case. You hear a song from your parent’s era, long before you gained your own appreciation, and the song makes you stop and listen because it is one of your favourite songs. Without even thinking, you listen intently, remembering the song, perhaps even singing along with it, and come on, be honest, how many of you have actually done that.

    But have you ever stopped and thought about it. This song, which you know so well, and like so much, was from a time perhaps way before you started to include music as part of your own life.

    It’s happened to me often, and here’s just a short list, and I was born in 1951, and there’s probably many others.

    Old Cape Cod – Patti Page – 1957
    Sleepwalk – Santo and Johnny – 1959
    Last Date – Floyd Cramer – 1960

    Whenever I hear those songs, I’m transported back to a time I remember when I first heard the song, usually the living room of our old family home, because Mum and Dad had one of those large radio grams in a lowboy cabinet, and they loved their records. I never really thought about it, because it was just one of those songs I liked.

    However, one song always intrigued me, and that was Nat King Cole’s Mona Lisa. Every time I hear that, I stop dead and listen to the song. It’s just so beautiful.

    That song was a hit in 1950/51 the year I was born. Now why would I just love that song, because it’s not often, if at all, played all that much these days, and probably wasn’t even in those early years as I grew up, so I wouldn’t have heard it all that much, and hey, again, I never even thought about it.

    A few years back I was talking with my Mum at her home, and she’s now in her mid 80′s and still as sharp as ever.

    She had the radio playing in the background, just softly, on her radio station, and this Nat King Cole song came on. I stopped talking and went across and turned up the radio, and just listened. After it finished I turned it back down, and told Mum that I just loved that song.

    She just smiled and then told me this.

    I was her firstborn, born in 1951. She was a new Mum, still young, and still learning the way with new babies etc, so it was all a huge learning curve. That song was a huge hit at the time. Evidently, I was a restless baby, and always hard to put down to sleep when the time came. She noticed, without even concentrating on why that when she played this record, I just shut up completely, dead quiet, and drifted of to sleep. She tried it again, and it worked again, and from that point on, whenever she wanted to put me down to sleep, she’d just play that song, and straight off to sleep I’d go. Worked every time. As my brothers and sisters were born, she also tried it with them, but it only ever worked for me.

    As incredible as it sounds, I tend to believe that the song was imprinted, even at that age of only Months old, and that’s why I like it to this day.

    Has anybody any similar thoughts on this.

    And hey, it’s always a chance to link to a music video clip, so here’s just one from that list, Santo and Johnny’s Sleepwalk, perhaps the second best Instrumental of all time, and just look at that wonderful Fender Steel guitar table.

    Sleepwalk – Santo and Johnny (Farina)

    Tony.

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      Unmentionable

      Good one Tony, a little sonic gift for your post:

      Pat Benetar – Painted desert
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9v7-qN6rZs

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    • #
      the Griss

      You want something a bit of “all”

      Go to youtube, and search for “Postmodern Jukebox”.

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      the Griss

      I grew up with classical, jazz, rock all around me,
      (but preferred to play sport… cricket and piano don’t mix very well)

      I’m into what I guess could be called ‘modern retro swing’ as one of many styles of music I listen to.

      Hunt for bands like,

      Squirrel Nut Zippers, Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, Ingrid Lucia, Lavay Smith, Imelda May, Brian Setzer. etc

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        the Griss

        But then I can turn around and listen to Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Ten years after, Pink Floyd, Elton John etc.. Or some Fats Waller or some old style Doo Wop. :-)

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        JoKaH

        (but preferred to play sport… cricket and piano don’t mix very well)

        Don Bradman played piano and I think he also played cricket.

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        • #
          the Griss

          He was rather more skilful at batting that me. I was constantly getting fingers hit, which is not good for keyboard playing.

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      Richard111

      Nice! My teen years were in the mid 1950′s so am biased towards ballads. I reckon ‘Green Sleeves’ was my favourite but I’m so deaf now I don’t enjoy listening that much.

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      Yonniestone

      Tony you might be asking about Sleep Learning or a prenatal version of it, initially much of the sleep learning theory was called a pseudo science but recently there have been studies to suggest various techniques for individuals show interesting results.

      I agree with the prenatal possibilities, a mother we knew found after trying many genres that classical music was very soothing for her unborn baby and later as a toddler this child could pick up a classical song just by the intro, the kindergarten teachers were also quite astounded at her abilities with musical recognition, I actually witnessed this so it’s not just hearsay.

      I went to see the ‘Jersey Boys’ movie and absolutely loved it, the biggest star of the show is the music and brought back a vivid memory of me singing ‘Can’t take my eyes off you’ word for word when I was 8 years old, my parents thought this hilarious and would get me to sing it sometimes for a laugh.

      Frankie Valli released ‘Can’t take my eyes off you’ in 1967, I was born in 1968 and I sang it word for word at the movies with a tear in my eye. :)

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      realist

      “As incredible as it sounds, I tend to believe that the song was imprinted, even at that age of only Months old…..”

      Not incredible, normal. Imprinting is part of early learning. Think of how birds when hatching, imprint on the first entity they see (think of wild geese, turkeys, etc). The environment that’s “normal” at an early age (Homeo sapiens are dependent on parental care longer than other organisms, which is many months stretching to years), forms the framework of the personal “I”. So recalling music heard at an early age, especially if repetitive, is like olfactory and other senses: we can have an instant recall.

      The bonus for you, Tony, is the context of that memory, learnt from your mother, who gave you your gift of life, and perhaps your joy in music, so it makes logical sense when you know your personal story through her memory. That’s the real treasure: your personal history direct from it’s finite source. The music is just a trigger for recall. What about smells you also remember? Ask about those, too. Once your mother is gone, so is a vital link with who know yourself as, so my suggestion is find out all you can while the gift of context is there to discover and share. It will also be an important gift to honour her, which will be a far more important memory than the music per se. The music will then be a trigger for family history to pass on, like a baton.

      Material objects from our family history have a much-reduced and often little value without all the stories and context that go with them, to pass on, which inevitably opens up “forgotten” history we are much a part of. What would families rather have; the richness of an oral history with personal connectedness to objects handed down, or a family museum of photos and other objects devoid of the stories and context of those lives before us? It’s what makes for the richness in families between generations, which spills over into community and society. And while the exact details of the past might sometimes be misplaced, we never forget the feeling we had in that context. Capture it while you can.

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    • #

      Oh, and the single best Instrumental ever* would have to be the song at the following link.

      It’s Alabatross by the original Fleetwood Mac, and while the music clip is the thing here, there’s some really interesting technical information about the song itself, if you want to read that at my own Post.

      Albatross – Fleetwood Mac

      Tony.

      *Now there’s a pretty big statement which will undoubtedly get a number of responses.

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      Now all of us are different ages …

      I don’t. I have only one age, based on my measurement of “now”.

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        JoKaH

        I don’t know if I can relate to the music you young blokes talk about. I was bought up on a diet of swing music & New Orleans jazz. Spent many years learning the clarinet trying to emulate Benny Goodman and not getting any where near it. In those days I had a lot of disdain for classical music but have now developed quite a taste for the classics although it hasn’t quite replaced swing & jazz on my preference list. Maybe music tastes also mature with maturing age?

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          Then you’d like this. Well, really, who wouldn’t like this?

          Moonlight Serenade – Glenn Miller

          Tony.

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            JoKaH

            Thanks Tony
            That was well worth the listen although I have heard it many times before. 1939 was a good year, it was the year I was born although World War 2 started soon after I was born – I am not sure that was cause and effect though!!!

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            Hasbeen

            Now you are talking. The big band stuff gets to me. I was too young, & we didn’t even have a radio most of the time while dad was away, so I don’t know where that comes from.

            Then on to people like Acker Bilk, with stranger on the shore always raising goose bumps on the back of my neck.

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              JoKaH

              The big band stuff still gets to me as well – has done since I first heard it in the early 50s. In my late teens I used to go to the Cecil Ballroom at Cronulla on Saturday nights just to listen to the big band. (Of course there was the other motive of picking up chicks at the dance.) The band had at least 20 members and they played all the Goodman, Miller and Artie Shaw numbers along with all the standards. Can’t quite recollect the name of the band but they were bloody good!

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                Hasbeen

                So did I, although I was late 50s.

                The music was good, you could even talk to people, the dancing was great, & the girls even better.

                Come to think of it, I met my first wife there, so perhaps not such a great place to have gone.

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            Just Thinkin'

            Tony, a couple of songs that have stayed with me are “The Teddy Bears Picnic” and “The Little Rag Doll”. {This by Lu Ann Simms).
            The first one I learnt at school and the other from a 78 that I acquired. I have just listened to this one and it is exactly as I remembered it.
            I still sing (to myself) the parts of these songs that I remember.

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          ROM

          Born mid 1938 so not much music around in our farm household in those times. And no money as Australia was still emerging from the Great Depression
          My father agreed to buy a repossessed farm from a bank in the mid 1930′s so when my parents got married in 1937 the bank allowed them 20 pounds to live on for the year.
          That was to run the farm and live on until the harvest came in many months later
          The bank paid over the first ten pounds which my parents managed to make last for about 3 months but refused to hand over the remaining ten pounds when that first ten pounds ran out.
          Had it not been for my maternal grandfather who was a quite well to do orchardist in Doncaster in the east of Melbourne, they would have starved.
          Just for interest for any Melbournites reading this and who know Doncaster road, at the eastern end of Doncaster road there is a shopping complex. That was where my maternal Grand father’s and Grand Mother’s house was located and where his orchard which he planted was located.

          When my grandfather selected that 40 acres area for an orchard around 1900, he had to clear it of the heavy timber.
          He lost his horse in that forty acres of heavy timber for three days before he found it, thats how heavy that timber at the foot of the Dandenong ranges was in those days of old.
          All gone now. the house, the cool store for storing the fruit, the orchard and the old mulberry tree which still stood in the car park of that shopping centre many years ago.
          It was about 10 metres outside of the back door of my grandfather’s house.
          Those old memories of the hours spent there as a little kid almost got the best of me when I went back there a few years ago to take a look again for probably the last time and think of those times of my childhood long gone now,

          One of my father’s prized possessions was a big old cabinet valve wireless run from a large bank of dry celled batteries which was the only electrical power available out there in the countryside and which had to be replaced every few months to power that old “wireless” as it was called in those days. “Radio” being an American term.
          He used to stand there in front of that wireless during the ABC’s news broadcasts and look at the world map with all it’s large splotches of British empire red, hung on the wall above the radio and follow the ABC’s news on the great battles, of the defeats and then slowly the victories of WW2 .

          There wasn’t much music in our household except when the locals arranged a concert at the local village, still standing Antwerp hall.

          Of course if you had some family news or gossip and you had a telephone conversation about it, everybody knew as the phones were on the old party line which often was no more than some fence wire strung from low poles on the dirt track road side or even just hung along a road side fence to the next farm house with a half dozen families all on the same line. The “party line” as it was called.
          We each had our own call signal so when we got two shorts and long ring that was our call if i remember correctly.
          It could be a neighbour ringing or the local storekeeper who was also the telephone operator and the general bearer of local news.
          When one picked up the ear piece receiver you could hear the clicks all along the line as everybody on the party line got to listen in.
          So sometimes it was a case of “Is that you Mrs Smith?” Yes! “Well it bloody well oughtn’t be!” followed by some abrupt clicks as various phones were hung up.

          Guess I had better stop as everybody will be bored if they have read this far about an old timers yarns of days of old .

          Re music. Can’t sing, can’t dance or follow music but strangely one of my father’s brothers, my uncle could just sit down and belt out just about any song or tune you could name and he had no musical training what so ever. A cousin is the same.
          Two of my grandsons are very musical. One can sit down and play nearly any instrument, and play it well. Another is a darn good drummer I’m told although i wouldn’t know except he gets me going when he gets on those drums. As a teenager he was invited to play with a couple of the big Melbourne bands in local gigs at a local rock festival.
          And it doesn’t come from my wife’s side of the family either. She is like but still much better than me when it comes to being musical .

          I like a lot of the old time jazz, some New Orleans jazz, some of the swing, some classics, some rock and roll and it is nearly always instrumental. In short i guess I am catholic all embracing in my tastes but still discriminatory in what i like to listen too
          And Nat King Coles “Mona Lisa” is a truly haunting song..

          And some research quite some time ago has found that music with a beat that is very closely in step with your heart beat is most likely the music that turns you on . If you look at all the most popular tunes and songs then you will find their rhythmic beat is at about the average persons heart beat rate.

          So Tony thats my story on music and just a very small part of my life.

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      How about the very first million selling song. And that’s more than one million copies ….. of the sheet music.

      The Entertainer – Scott Joplin

      Tony.

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        JoKaH

        Used to play that about 50 odd years ago together along with most of the other rags but only touched the piano spasmodically during the last 50 years. I wish that I had continued as I have found it difficult to pick it up again now I have the time after retiring. It does however help keep the fingers moving and keep the arthritis at bay.

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        Mark Hladik

        Hi Tony,

        Love your posts. Keep up the great work you do.

        Just wondering, even if you do not like the type of music, have you ever tried any Emmylou Harris? I’ve had a thing for her since the early 70′s. My opinion (and nothing else), she has the voice of an angel.

        A couple of perennial favorites: “Even Cowgirls Get the Blues” “Hello Stranger” “Before Believing”

        She did a Bruce Springsteen song, “My Father’s House”, and every B. S. fan who hears it says almost the same thing:

        ‘She does it better’, give or take.

        Enjoy!!!!

        Mark H.

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          Mark,

          I quite like her singing. Emmylou joined up with Linda Ronstadt, another of my favourite female singers, and with Dolly Parton, recording as Trio, they did a wonderful version of Neil Young’s After The Gold Rush.

          Tony.

          And perhaps I might indicate that my music tastes are indeed vast across all genres, and if you want classic Country, then perhaps this could pass muster.

          Lost Highway

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            Mark Hladik

            Hi Tony,

            Wonderful! Glad you enjoy one of God’s gifts to mankind (along with beer, of course … … … ).

            Yes, the Trio albums were also knockout punches. Even my wife (who hates C & W) loves the Trio Albums.

            Just FYI, it was popular in the 1970′s to say: “Dolly Parton for President!

            ……

            …….

            ………

            … And Vice-President!”

            MH

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        The Backslider

        Nice to hear The Entertainer played at the correct tempo – too many idiots play it way to fast, not understanding the first thing about ragtime or syncopation.

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        Hasbeen

        Now you are getting too close for comfort.

        A lady I was once married to, used that to choreograph a ballet, when it was big in the US, but just arriving in Oz.

        Have not enjoyed it since.

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        BruceC

        LOL. Every time I hear that tune, I think of only one thing……..Paul Hogan’s ‘Perce The Whino’ sketch ‘Stung’;

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08sCOSI2dmY

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      Ceetee

      I was a child of the late sixties and my parents tastes where quite eclectic, ranging from the likes of Burt Bacharach to classical and even opera. Bacharach does evoke memories and was by any measure a fantastic songwriter so I guess you could say I was ‘imprinted’. I know what you’re saying though, the music of our time can magically evoke our memories and senses of that time. I remember my older brothers’ bringing home ‘Sgt Peppers’ and damn near wearing the grooves through within days. It was like magic. Myself?.. a headbanger, Floyd fanatic and loud guitar and drum driven serious rock acolyte. To this day. Lord have mercy on ma soul.

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      This song, which you know so well, and like so much, was from a time perhaps way before you started to include music as part of your own life.

      Some things are just immune to time.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzATVIrdJDg
      .
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByYSkRGrMqw
      .
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgJnqAx5N9Y

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        For those who prefer to know what you are clicking on, some titles for the above. I enjoy being surprised by talent, skill and effort from any form of music at all but always drift to the old Celtic. It needs to change my mood and hold mt attention. If you want to listen to something else half way through then thats a fail.
        The first one above is an old Scotish/Irish classic Wild Mountain Thyme (Will ye go Lassie Go) Clancys.
        The second features the Banjo pilot whom everyone has heard do the Beverly Hill Billys theme music (Earl Scruggs) and traditional Irish music players(The Cheiftans).
        The third Gary Moore and Eric Bell (Thin Lizzy Guitarist) Whiskey In The Jar.

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          Carbon500

          Siliggy – I couldn’t agree more with your comment that some things are immune to time. Good music of any genre delivered with passion is I think appreciated across the generations. The ‘gypsy jazz’ of Django Reinhardt is for example played across the globe these days, and bluegrass music likewise. It’s a real pleasure to see the youngsters taking up these styles and so many more.

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            the Griss

            If you like Django Reinhart, look for a Canadian band called “Pearl Django”.

            3 or 4 cd available.

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              Carbon500

              Thanks Griss, you’ve jogged my memory – I’ve heard of them and will look them up.
              The first guitarist I saw that really played this style at the top level was a guitarist called Fapy Lafertin with a Belgian group, Waso, when on tour over here many years ago in the UK.
              I was absolutely floored, and found myself thinking – does acoustic plectrum guitar get any better than this? Lyrical, romantic, never boring, all combined with incredible virtuosity – I was hooked for life!

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              Carbon500

              Hello again Griss – I’ve had a look at Pearl Django on YouTube, most enjoyable!
              I see that you like Earl Scruggs, so this might appeal, although of course as you’ll see it’s not bluegrass-style banjo.
              It’s a tenor banjo trio arrangement of ‘The Entertainer’, not played too fast, and beautifully arranged. There’s plenty more by these players on YouTube, all of which I’ve watched several times.
              Here’s the link:
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYzJF1IuAnk

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              the Griss

              For a bit more variety in music style,

              Look for Eddi Reader. (once lead singer of Fairground Attraction) made the song “Perfect” famous, but has many more gems in her CD’s

              And also Linda Ronstadt.

              and of course the most gorgeous voice of all, Eva Cassidy. “Songbird” album.

              Eva died at 33 from cancer, and her farewell song, “What a wonderful world”, always brings tears to my eyes. What a loss to the music world.

              There is so much really good music out there that is not ‘in the main stream’ or well know to just concentrate on the big names.

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                the Griss

                Not Eva’s farewell concert, but, ENJOY ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEBBGSgO16M

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                Carbon500

                Hello again Griss – Eva Cassidy, yes indeed, what a singer! I was introduced to her singing by a colleague at work, and I was amazed by her ability to sing in a variety of styles, and with such power and authority. If I had to choose only one CD,it would be”Live at Blues Alley’ CD, everything from Irving Berlin’s ‘Cheek to Cheek’ to ‘Fields of Gold’ by Sting.
                Looking at the other performers you mention, I think you might well have heard British country guitarist Albert Lee in action. He’s played with Emmylou Harris, the Everly Brothers and I believe was also voted top country guitarist in the USA a while ago – quite an achievement! He plays in the UK with ‘Hogans Heroes’, a group of musicians who are well up to his standard on their instruments, and they’re absolute dynamite – they cover material from the best 1950s rock ‘n’ roll era, to various eras of country material and western swing. Talking of western swing, have you heard the trio ‘Hot Club of Cowtown’? They’re from Austin, Texas – and boy do they swing!

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                the Griss

                yep, got a couple of Albert Lee, and Emmylou , and Everly bros

                Will look at the Cowtown guys. :-)

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                Carbon500

                Hello Griss,
                Hopefully you’ll see this, re. Hot Club of Cowtown – try this link to learn more, I’m on their newsletter list and have just received this.

                http://ketr.org/post/exploring-cowtown-imagination-elana-james

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      Geoff Sherrington

      Tony.
      I can’t related to your examples at all because I’m 10 years or more older than you. The only title I know of those in your first post is Mona Lisa. Always been a music lover, but good music ended before 1900.
      So, instead of music I go for poetry. Just to see how many people read this, here is a piece that appeared in my emails yesterday. This is my idea of high culture.
      An Australian Love Poem
      (Who said Australians weren’t romantic?)

      Of course I love ya darlin
      You’re a bloody top-notch bird
      And when I say you’re gorgeous
      I mean every single word
      So ya bum is on the big side
      I don’t mind a bit of flab
      It means that when I’m ready
      There’s somethin there to grab
      So your belly isn’t flat no more
      I tell ya, I don’t care
      So long as when I cuddle ya
      I can get my arms round there
      No sheila who is your age
      Has nice round perky breasts
      They just gave in to gravity
      But I know ya did ya best
      I’m tellin’ ya the truth now
      I never tell ya lies
      I think its very sexy
      That you’ve got dimples on ya thighs
      I swear on me nanna’s grave now
      The moment that we met
      I thought you was as good as
      I was ever gonna get
      No matter what u look like
      I’ll always love ya dear
      Now shut up while the footy’s on
      And fetch another beer

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      LevelGaze

      For me it’s Bach and Laibach. Nothing much before, after, or in between.

      I was born in ’44 so I’m not sure what all that says about me.
      Not that I’m worried about it.

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      Roy Hogue

      Tony,

      Great weekend subject!

      You and your mum have real good taste in music. Floyd Cramer, Patti Page and Nat Cole are among the best who ever recorded anything.

      I’m still an avid country and classical fan but I remember such songs as, “How Much is that Dogie in the Window?” playing on the radio.

      Somehow though, Hank Williams remains at the top of my country list and Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Chopin, Saint-Saëns (masterful 3rd Symphony with pipe organ — my speakers can shake the house and rattle the windows), Dvorak (9th symphony is unequaled), Tchaikovsky, Vivaldi and too many others to be able to pick a favorite.

      But being born in ’39 I remember all those who recorded through the ’50s as I was growing up. I wish we had them back instead of what we get now.

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        Annie

        Oh gosh! Yes! I love that Organ Symphony. I first heard it on a QANTAS flight to NZ. I was almost sick with excitement at making my first visit to NZ and the setting sun cast a wonderful deep pink glow over the snow and glaciers of Mt Cook as we approached Christchurch. I had played that music three times over on the flight and have always loved it ever since. A composer more brilliant than he’s given credit for.

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          Yonniestone

          Beethoven-Romance No.2 in F major, one of the most exquisite complete violin pieces ever, this performance was played on a “Tritton” Stradivarius made in 1730.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=945bEzPeu2M

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            Roy Hogue

            Yonni,

            Beethoven had a musical vision far too big for the world to contain. His music is unequaled and if I had to pick a favorite, he would be it.

            His progressively worsening deafness must have been terrible to him. And yet he continued to compose music he could no longer hear and never let his vision slip even a little because of his handicap.

            Interestingly, though there’s no evidence that Beethoven and Mozart ever met, Beethoven started his career trying to emulate Mozart. I’m glad he finally found his own vision for his music because if he hadn’t the world would have been cheated out of one of the finest talents ever to have lived. And my life would certainly have been the poorer had I not had his music.

            But as I said, there are too many talented composers to pick a favorite. I wouldn’t want to be without the others.

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              Annie

              You’ve put into words what I feel. In particular, he was trying to convey something in his Choral Symphony that was quite sublime and completely beyond words. He’d found out something very important and really had nothing further to tell us.

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            Annie

            Thanks for that. It’s a perfect little piece. I just love Beethoven’s music; so beautiful and flowing.

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          Roy Hogue

          Like you, I fell in love with that 3rd symphony the first time I heard it. I always liked the pipe organ and symphony orchestra but most who composed for organ and orchestra never were very inspiring, not even the classics. But then I heard the master of both…

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      gigdiary

      Interesting post, Tony. I had much the same musical upbringing as yourself. I was born in 1956, my parents had a stereo-gram in the lounge room. Every Sunday Dad would play LPs of the great musicals, My Fair Lady, Sound of Music, etc, while Mum cooked the Sunday lunch roast. Our house was an original Queensland verandah house. In order to hear the music in the kitchen it had to be turned up very loud. As a kid it was simply background noise to me. On Christmas holidays we visited our relatives in Sydney. My older cousin had a portable record player and a wonderful collection of singles and the first Rollingstones LP. I was six at the time but have never forgotten Jagger singing ‘Walking the Dog’, the Dave Clarke Five, ‘Bits and Pieces’ and of course all the early Beatles hits.

      At ten years of age I was buying my own records and using that stereo-gram to drive my parents mad: Beatles, Rollingstones, Cream, Hendrix.. I nagged my parents to buy me a guitar. At seventeen I scored a job in a nightclub band, playing six nights a week. I’ve been a professional musician ever since. It wasn’t until my twenties that I started to appreciate the wealth of music that my parents had inadvertently instilled in me. I subsequently played in a number of musicals at Her Majesty’s Theatre in Sydney.

      Your idea of ‘imprinting’ is spot-on. Prior to being aware of music, I was ‘imprinted’ with ‘Ramblin’ Rose’ Nat King Cole and Roger Miller’s ‘King of the Road’. Every morning the local radio, 4TO, played them before I went to school. I love those songs to this day.

      I don’t comment on Jo’s blog, not being of a scientific background, but savour the opportunity to read opinions from scientists, engineers and people who know what is going on, as opposed to the mainstream media and scaremongers.

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        sherlock1

        I’m a bit (a BIT..!) older than you, gigdiary, having been born at the back end of 1942, – but much of what you say resonates..
        My earliest musical memories were of stuff like ‘Shrimpboats is a-comin’ – but my life changed when, as a fourteen-year-old at school in Essex and wandering around Grays market on a Saturday morning, I heard ‘Hound Dog’ by Elvis belting out from a record stall. That record still makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up – his voice; those crashing Gibson chords and the machine-gun drumming; what a combination..!
        A few years earlier I remember getting hold of a wind-up gramophone and a stack of records, amongst which were ‘How High The Moon’ by Les Paul and Mary Ford – an early example of multi-tracking – brilliant. Also some Spike Jones and his City Slickers – ‘Cocktails for Two’ is hilarious… Finally in this recollection – a ‘double sider’ – ‘Slaughter on Tenth Avenue’ – so atmospheric…
        More recently I did, of course, love the early Beatles stuff – simple, clever melodies – and the ‘Surf Sound’ of The Beach Boys and Jan & Dean…
        Finally (I’m boring myself now) – much-underrated Gerry Rafferty (‘Don’t Speak of My Heart’, etc) – and – a very peculiar choice, but I love it – ‘Convoy’ by C W McCall – visions of Peterbilts and Kenworths, all chrome, running lights and billowing smokestacks…
        Yes, thank you nurse – I know its time for my medication…

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      Bob Malloy

      Hi Tony.

      I remember when I was a child, as my mother went about her daily chores the radio was always on in the background and my mother would sing along. Hence my ongoing appreciation of Doris Day, however this lady is one of my all time favourites, accompanied by another constant when it comes to the soundtrack of my life.

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      It’s sometimes a little funny that the history of a song gets somewhat lost over the years.

      Take the theme song for Liverpool FC, You’ll Never Walk Alone. Everybody knows it’s their theme song, but how did that come about?

      While the song is from Rogers and Hammerstein’s musical Carousel from 1945, the version that became the theme song for the football club is the Gerry Marsden version from late 1963.

      Gerry actually pitched the song to Liverpool FC at the time, and the club was seeking to find a way to appeal to a wider, and a younger audience.

      Gerry and his band, The Pacemakers released their cover of the song in late 63, just around the time the English football season was starting. The club, in that attempt to appeal to a younger audience played a radio show, popular at the time, Top Of The Pops, prior to kickoff.

      The last song before kickoff was, as usual, the current Number One hit song at the time.

      When Gerry’s song hit Number One, the crowd started to sing along with it, and the following week, the voices grew louder, as they did on the following week. Liverpool FC, and a Liverpool band equalled virtually instant success.

      This season saw a resurgence of the football club as a powerhouse in the League, and as expected, the TV coverage of the match of the day usually featured this club which was doing so well. So, when The Big Match TV program made their live cross to the match of the day, at Liverpool, the crowd was singing along with the current Number One song, You’ll Never Walk Alone, just prior to kickoff.

      The song was Number One for a few weeks, and the TV audience saw the crowd singing this song with one voice.

      When the song dropped from Number One, the crowd actually ignored the song playing and kept singing this Gerry Marsden song.

      The rest is, as they say, is history. The song had now become associated with the Liverpool football club.

      Incidentally, the band Gerry And The Pacemakers were Plan B. Plan A was The Beatles, as the record company signed both bands to contracts around the same time. They knew that The Beatles were going to be huge, so Gerry’s band was there mostly for the insurance of backup.

      In what can only be termed irony, Gerry and the Pacemakers had their first three Singles go straight to Number One, something that The Beatles themselves did not achieve. In fact Gerry’s fourth Single almost made it to Number One, stalling at Number Two. That feat of their first three Singles topping the charts was a record at the time, and stood for more than 20 years.

      You’ll Never Walk Alone – Gerry And The Pacemakers

      Tony.

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      Yeppers i still remember all the words and can sing along with my folks favorite songs from the 40′s, “My blue heaven” and the dance songs and ballads, of their day I listened to before my own teens.

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    Andrew

    Oh noes, it’s worse than we thought – at WUWT the latest warmy models forecast a decline in Australian cyclones due to GW but the record low cyclones are occurring DECADES earlier than predicted by the models!

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      I shall organise a lobby group to protect the Australian Cyclone, especially since they are obviously being endangered by Klimate Seance.

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      the Griss

      I love how that are constantly predicting things once they have already happens.

      Gives me such faith in climate science.. ;-)

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      Roy Hogue

      Help, help help! What will you do without those destructive storms?

      My condolence to that whole part of the world on your great loss.

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        Roy Hogue

        I suspect you’ll do exactly what we would do if we lost all these destructive hurricanes — breathe a little easier — breathing with opposite rotation, of course.

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          Roy Hogue

          On the other hand, I doubt that the cyclone and its left handed twin, the hurricane are even close to being an endangered species. ;-)

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    David

    We have had lots of gerbil worming here in Melbourne. It was banked up against my front step all night on Friday. Some airhead on the TV was then complaining how cold it was – has previous form for the usual “warmist [here insert your choice of hour/day/month/season] since [usually a long time ago]. It is usually the time you would like interactive TV so you could politely inform them that it is Winter and it is supposed to be bloody cold.

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      Steve C

      Meanwhile, somewhere near Melbourne’s antipodes, Piers Corbyn at Weather Action has stuck his head above the parapet and warned us that Britain can expect its highest temperature in 300 years this month. As you’d expect him to save that sort of warning for his paying customers (who, I guess, know just when to expect it), it’s interesting that he’s gone public with it like this. We’ve had quite a bit of “meridional jet stream” weather over the last few years (mostly blocking highs keeping us hot / freezing / soaking / whatever for so long that everybody gets thoroughly fed up with it), so it’s not impossible. Time will tell …

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    David

    Bloody dyslexic fingers. For warmist read warmest.
    :-)

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      There, and I thought you were indulging in a subtle pun.

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        David

        G’day RW,

        I have been called a lot of things over the years – can’t recall ever having been called subtle so thank you. Ignore the second pipe and I’ll settle for a subtle warmist.

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    scaper...

    Been working on getting certain people to look into Getup. Relates to the Senate Report thread.

    It is a sovereignty issue.

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      Yonniestone

      Can you elaborate more on this?

      Do you need a hand?

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        scaper...

        A work in motion, Yonnie.

        Was an interesting interview of Greg Hunt on the Bolt Report today. Won’t elaborate but will put the clip up when released. Something there I have not heard for many years, in concern to the environment.

        “Finding/striking a balance.”

        That is what true environmentalism is about.

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          the Griss

          Yes, Greg seemed to be very balanced and sensible in his point of view.

          I bet the rabids won’t have thought so, though.

          I still wish, as AB does, that he would realise the farce of the whole AGW scam.

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          • #
            Andrew

            I’ve been at Hunt666 to tell the story. We’re NOT mining the reef. The dredging is 1/10 the scale of the dredging when Blie sponsored it with bipartisan support. The dredge plume is 2-3km, but 40km from the nearest reef. Basically, refuting the more ridiculous lies of GetUp.

            Looks like he’s starting very gradually, on the Bolt Report. Which isn’t telling who he needs to.

            He needs to show the lack of impact from the Hay Pt dredging of 2005 – how the Reef is thriving. At least he pointed out that Galilee is 500km inland, in the Qld outback – something the sheeple don’t have any idea about.

            30

        • #
          Yonniestone

          I liked that Greg Hunt used the term ‘Hard Left’ often when describing what everyday Australians would consider more politically Centre or Green.

          Also repeating that reliable electricity is important to reverse poverty was a good message to get out there, he must have been reading Jo’s blog to get some common sense ideas. :)

          40

    • #
      scaper...

      Finally…the clip.

      Had a good chuckle when Andrew and Greg were sparring in regards to warmist or not.

      10

  • #

    Steve Goddard seems to have proof of Mann-made warming.

    Good time to compare at the correlation of global temperature with CO2 concentration.

    30

    • #

      Forgot, 10 year average smoothing from woodfortrees.org for the anomaly.

      30

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        woodfortrees.org

        Of course wood is for trees, they’re made of it. And that’s it’s not only a good construction material for trees but for human habitat is indisputable. So where’s the problem? The tree uses it for a while and then the humans use it for a while and then it’s recycled by one mechanism or another.

        I have no idea what use a tree has for any kind of smoothing. But humans definitely prefer smoothed wood for interior furnishing.

        Nothing to see here, so everyone please move along.

        20

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          With power tools it wouldn’t take nearly 10 years to smooth even a very large piece of wood. But maybe it will take that long after they take away all but a minimal amount of electricity.

          20

        • #

          Its the source of the CO2 and HadCRUT4 data used in the second plot.

          The very good correlation between adjustments to the US temp data and rising CO2 is unlikely to be a coincidence. Its better than the correlation between the rise in temperature and CO2. It must be in the code for the homogenisation process.

          30

  • #
    Lank of the west

    The recent ebola outbreak in west Africa is shaping to be an horrendous humanitarian crisis.
    There is no current cure for ebola which is transmitted by contact with body fluids such as perspiration and saliva. The 800 or so reported deaths are likely to be the tip of an iceberg because many districts suffering from the outbreak have been closed and body counts not possible.

    This is the type of crisis the UN should be battling – Ebola is likely to kill many hundreds of thousands unless it can be controlled. The virus is a real threat.

    The fraudulent IPCC should be disbanded and replaced with an “IPebola”.
    I’m surprised that this horrible virus hasn’t been blamed on climate change. Or has it?

    41

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      The U.S. has brought home our two infectd aid workers for treatment here — a privately chartered jet too, not government, although I’ve no word on who paid for the charter. But you’re right, the UN claims to have a World Health Organization. So the WHO should be at the frontline in this battle. But once again I fear that we, along with others will end up being the worlds charity ward, putting up the money because no one else will (or can).

      Of more than 1,000 infected last I heard, between 700 and 900 have died, depending on the source. And with the long incubation period there’s no telling where infected travelers may end up spreading the disease. Ebola is as bad as they get.

      10

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Lank:
      Ebola and similar deadly virus outbreaks tend to “burn” themselves out as they kill those infected faster than the virus can spread. Standard quarantine measures are sufficient to stop the plaque spreading. The problem comes with modern transport whisking people around the world in days.

      A simple quarantine around the infected areas e.g. Everybody who wants to travel having to spend 2 weeks (or whatever the incubation period is) would be enough were it not for corruption and worse, “the human rights” movement.

      I understand that Nigeria has heat measuring devices in airports to detect the early signs of the fever before the infected realise that have something worse that the flu etc.

      20

    • #
      Crakar24

      Yes, the latest outbreak has been blamed on AGW by the hyperventalating idiots.

      20

  • #

    BP CEO admits sanctions against Russia are ineffective. Obama, who championed the sanctions, either does not know they are ineffective because he is an idiot, or he does know and he’s just posturing about reducing CO2 and fossil fuel usage.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jvmO1qjdwY

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    • #
      James McCown

      HRH Barack Hussein 0bama says that if sanctions against Russia don’t work, he will hold his breath until his lips turn a deeper shade of purple and his ears stick out further.

      60

      • #
        David

        That would be an image to scare the children. Sort of like “Chucky 3″ or whatever number it is up to.

        30

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Scuse me! But it’s HRM Barack Hussein Obama. One really should get the title right. ;-)

        20

      • #
        The Backslider

        he will hold his breath until his lips turn a deeper shade of purple and his ears stick out further

        His lips are already purple and how in the World can his ears stick out any further than the current 90 degrees?

        21

  • #
    Ceetee

    Since this is a freebee I’m trying to evolve a viewpoint on Green economics. This is where I’m at so far.
    “There shall be no freely entered into financial transactions based on personal choice. Only transactions based on the subjective moral and ethical imperatives devised by us will be tolerated.
    Now cough.”
    Any advances on that?

    31

    • #
      bobl

      I don’t like that very much, it implies that Greens have Morals, and Ethics. They don’t, the Green Blob uses OUR morals and ethics against us. That should not be held to imply that they have any Morals or Ethics themselves.

      It’s more like “Only transactions that benefit the Green blob, or further the communist agenda are allowed”

      As seen here m.youtube.com/watch?v=glzcxa7jtoI

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      • #
        Ceetee

        I did say SUBJECTIVE morals and ethics. They may not have them but it doesn’t stop them posturing as if they do.

        21

        • #
          bobl

          I don’t see that this makes them Morals or Ethics, if a conman is using your sense of right, “Please save my dying Nigerian child” against you, does the conman have any Moral grounds. The victim is being moral, the conman is decidedly immoral. I think you should rephrase to avoid ascibing moral value to what the Greens do, since they are (the organisations, not the individuals) in many cases decidedly misanthropic, cause much pain and suffering both by diverting funds from humanitarian causes and activly working against third world development ( for example by opposing cheap electricity ).
          The end almost never justifies the means, doing good by immoral and harmful means is not moral or ethical, a lesson the world seemingly has to relearn yet again.

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          • #
            el gordo

            ‘I don’t see that this makes them Morals or Ethics,’

            Ah yes, but you are forgetting they have been brainwashed and are not fully capable of making a rational decision. The high priests have stipulated that they have a 97% consensus on this, the science is settled and the masses have accepted the orthodox view to a great degree.

            So our quest is to come up with convincing arguments to refute the connection between a harmless trace gas and the warming of last century.

            Once that is achieved the Greens will suffer at the Polls and be shame faced for life, along with the Klimatariat, which is punishment enough for these clowns. At the moment they feel extremely moral and ethical in their attempt to save the planet for their grandchildren and those yet unborn.

            Arrogance and ignorance is a nasty mix.

            31

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Now cough.

      Isn’t it, “Now Bend over?”

      30

  • #
    ROM

    CeeTee @ 10

    Actually I thought that Greenpeace had that the other way around;

    Greenpeace Executives;
    “Only transactions based on the subjective moral and ethical imperatives devised by us will be tolerated.”

    Greenpeace peons;
    “There shall be no freely entered into financial transactions based on personal choice”.

    Ref; CHAMPAGNE GREENIES: GREENPEACE EXECUTIVE FLIES 250 MILES TO WORK

    31

  • #
    TdeF

    A great question was posed to Daniel Hannan at his IPA talk in Melbourne about two years ago. Daniel is an entertaining young English MP in the European Union and therefore someone who understands such strange self justifying and perhaps pointless but expensive organizations. He was asked when man made Global Warming was shown to be a fraud, how long would it take for the whole thing to calm down and vanish. His answer? Twenty years.

    So even though there has not been any warming for a very long time now and the computer models have been shown to be utterly inadequate at the very least, the grinding of money and the silly articles and the pseudo science will continue for a very long time, especially at a council level. Jobs, laws, taxation, incentives, trade, certificates, credits, dams, funding, windmills and solar panels will continue and slowly vanish. So half a working life, giving time for Tim Flannery to trade on his fame as a world expert on everything and then finally retire, the Climate Council to go quiet and new people in the Green departments at every level of government can find another scare which justifies their existence and perhaps an odd species under threat. Already there is talk that the next Great Extinction has started. We can only hope. Then there is the classic Australian Great Barrier Reef which is so great, so huge that after thousands of years including cataclysmic events, it cannot withstand very slightly warmer seas which are very slightly less alkali. So it might be back to worrying about the Crown of Thorns Starfish which was going to wipe out the Reef only twenty years ago, but has been forgotten in the drama of the great warming bubble. How is that starfish going? Maybe there is still funding?

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  • #
    Truthseeker

    Here is a mashed and modified Dilbert that I though everyone may like.

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  • #

    I’m doing lunch with Jerry Bruckheimer to pitch him a script based on this stuff.

    http://thepointman.wordpress.com/2014/07/31/who-is-this-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing/

    Pointman

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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Now can you manage to get America infected with whatever the bug is that made your turnaround possible?

      Well, I thought I’d ask and see (one more time). But GO AUSTRALIA! The world is watching, a world that desperately needs your example.

      50

      • #
        bobl

        Roy, we tasted the medicine and spat it out, that’s all. Remember we had the economy destroying tax for 3 years, we know what it’s like. We still have it because the state governments raised their electricity charges to take back the benefit we should have received from the repeal, but it’s gone and will infect our electricity bills no further than it has already. The question really is why are countries like the UK in which similar taxes have potentially contributed to 25000 deaths NOT in open revolt against granny freezing green largesse?

        50

        • #
          Andrew McRae

          I got my glossy “carbon tax repeal” flyer from Origin last week.
          On the front side it says “DELIVERING SAVINGS BACK TO YOU”. Yay! :-D
          Turn over the other side.
          “an Average Origin household electricity bill will decrease by around 7 percent.” Awww. :-(

          As I said before, at just 0.8% of GDP the carbon tax was not much of a price burden at the domestic level, it’s the cumulative effect through the supply chain on the cost of living and the wrong-headedness of the whole idea that was more objectionable.

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        • #
          Roy Hogue

          The question really is why are countries like the UK in which similar taxes have potentially contributed to 25000 deaths NOT in open revolt against granny freezing green largesse?

          I’ve asked the same question, Bob. I don’t know how to answer it though, any more than I know the answer to why Obama, climate change, increasing regulation and suffering are so easily embraced by so many.

          And I’m afraid we’ll have to taste the medicine before we wake up.

          10

    • #
      bit chilly

      that article by black swan really needs some serious distribution . the sad thing is it could be any senior government official in any of the developed nations .they have all gone the same way .organised scum stealing from the tax payer to feather their own nests.
      my greatest worry is the average man in the street now sees this as the way to behave,moral fortitude is now regarded as weakness .

      10

  • #
    Paul Vaughan

    New:
    http://s12.postimg.org/wu9x6zpl9/Sun_Wind.png
    Sunspot Integral = Wind (ICOADS)

    Reminder: Sun & SAM (Southern Annular Mode)

    more extensive illustration (including ENSO) forthcoming weeks-to-months from now

    Regards

    20

  • #
    Margaret Smith

    LevelGaze
    August 3, 2014 at 11:40 pm · Reply
    For me it’s Bach and Laibach. Nothing much before, after, or in between.

    I was born in ’44 so I’m not sure what all that says about me.
    Not that I’m worried about it.

    I’m similar vintage. I grew up with the ‘pop’ music of the 20s, 30s and 40s. (my parents shellac records). I remember being stunned by Elvis and Heartbreak Hotel. Then The Beatles Please Please Me. George Harrison was my favourite. By 1966 they had gone off a lot and I discovered serious music. For the next 30 years I was immersed in this from JS Bach to Wagner and Richard Strauss. I still am but enjoy jazz, and pops from every era although I have a huge blank spot which includes the 70s, 80s and 90s. I love musicals, though.

    I am a natural born sceptic and always need evidence. As a young teenager it was Continental Drift that had ridiculed geologists coming up against the geological establishment. Looking at the evidence presented by the ‘drifters’ I believed it too. When I heard the words ‘Plate Tectonics’ for the first time I rushed to the University Bookshop where 2 books had arrived. The establishment view just melted away. But then, politicians were not involved, it was purely academic.

    I’ve been a ‘climate sceptic’ since the 70s when I didn’t believe CO2 caused cooling and when this changed to warming I looked for evidence but found none that made sense.
    I used to be a lone voice amongst believers. Now my views are becoming the majority and I’m pushing at an open door.

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    • #
      Ian Hill

      I recently watched The Beatles’ Anthology again, an eight volume series made in the 1990s. I enjoyed all the interviews of George Harrison more than anyone elses, although Ringo’s humour was brilliant. George was just so down to earth. Paul McCartney attempted to be humble and he wasn’t bad at it, but it must have been difficult working with him in the 1960s. To me, John was the one who made it all happen though.

      I disagree with one thing Margaret, I thought their best work came after 1966, but then again I’m ten years younger than you!

      One interesting thing, yesterday my teenage son used my turntable to play Hey Jude to his girlfriend. He told me that vinyl records can’t be beaten for sound quality, not that I needed convincing.

      10

  • #
    Peter C

    1. CO2 causes cooling
    2. CO2 causes warming
    3. CO2 causes neither warming nor cooling
    4. CO2 causes both warming and cooling

    4. seems like a logical impossibility, but CO2 might have characteristics which could causes cooling in some circumstances and warming in others.

    As you say Margaret, we need evidence. It would be nice if someone would try to produce some, instead of just making up arguments.

    40

  • #
    eliza

    Steven Goddard has caught them red handed.

    30

  • #

    We’ve just had three days of -2°C mornings in Mildura. The record low is -2.3°C for August. Lets see if it makes it into the papers. So far the local paper says yesterday’s -2.3°C was only the lowest this year.

    30

    • #

      It made it in to the local paper, sort of.

      Mildura has had three consecutive frosty mornings with identical minima of -2.3 degrees

      Today’s minimum was -2.8° so it was the coldest morning on record. I do suspect that at least one of the earlier days was colder.

      20

      • #
        Gee Aye

        Unlikely for there to have been two x sub -2 days in a row. So many records to create as well as break.

        01

        • #

          Today was the forth day of sub -2°C. That the first three were recorded as exactly -2.3, the former record for August seems suspicious. Today reached -2.8°C.

          I’m not putting it up as evidence of Global Cooling nor against Global Warming but evidence that the media will trumpet any hot records and ignore any cold records. That’s propaganda rather than science.

          20

          • #

            Same cold snap reported. Maybe the Mildura paper just doesn’t rate it newsworthy (which it isn’t)

            http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/canberra-thaws-after-coldest-august-morning-in-20-years-20140805-100i11.html

            01

            • #
              Crakar24

              Have you ever been to Mildura GA? Obviously not for if you had you would understand just how newsworthy this very rare weather event is.

              10

              • #
                Gee Aye

                Sorry finished post below before mea culpa. I take your point about the newsworthiness given the local industry.

                10

            • #

              Its not rareness of the temperature dropping below 0, its a problem when it drops a few degrees below because of the effect on some crops. It could wipe out Avocado growers who lost this years crop to heat. That heat, the large number of days over 40 rather than breaking the 47 degrees record, was trumpeted a lot.

              10

            • #
              Gee Aye

              Thanks I am a regular visitor. You might even remember a long time ago commenting that I had recently travelled through your part of the world.

              11

            • #
              Crakar24

              Took a while to find this comment but GA you are worth it.

              GA, in comment 20.1.1.1.1 with all the wisdom and forethought of one of those Gypsy fortune tellers you find in a circus stated:

              Same cold snap reported. Maybe the Mildura paper just doesn’t rate it newsworthy (which it isn’t)

              Driving into work this morning and listening to 891 ABC radio we find that the riverland (which Mildura is part of) has had its coldest start to August ON RECORD and have suffered crop losses due to the cold but rest assured its not news worthy. I am sure if it was really, really hot GA would find it news worthy.

              You make it too easy sometimes GA.

              Cheers

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  • #
    el gordo

    Milne also had a message for ‘all those people partying around the corridors’:

    “Enjoy it because it is your last stand. The fact is you have misjudged the temperature … When we look at the temperature of the planet rising, let us look at the climate science. The fact of the matter is we are on track for four to six degrees of warming. That means people will not survive. Part of the world will be uninhabitable. There will be one million deaths per week for the next 90 years if it gets to 4 degrees.”

    http://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2014/08/33608/

    **chuckle**

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  • #
    pat

    followup to claim WA govt won’t removed carbon tax charges on public transport; almost incomprehensible tho. whose fault is that? ABC’s? the pollies? probably both:

    4 Aug: ABC: WA Government confirms carbon tax charges to be removed, but not immediately
    The West Australian Government has confirmed it will remove carbon tax charges that were added to public transport fees, but commuters will have to wait until the end of the year to find out how that will happen…
    WA Treasurer Mike Nahan has confirmed costs would be reduced where the carbon tax pushed up charges for gas, electricity, water and public transport.
    Dr Nahan said the impact of the carbon tax on water and public transport was small and the Government must figure out how to refund the difference.
    He said that would happen in the mid-year review at the end of this year.
    “Our policy is that when the carbon tax came on and it was identified as an additional cost, electricity, gas and transport, we will take it off,” he said.
    “There are some complications with public transport because it’s only 1.5 per cent and fares have moved by 10 cents…
    Dr Nahan has already ordered electricity providers to pass on carbon tax savings to their customers in full, and backdate them to July 1.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-04/wa-treasurer-confirms-charges-reduced-after-carbon-tax-repeal/5646328

    30

  • #
    pat

    with an election coming in NZ, there’s little but confusion in the CAGW ranks:

    4 Aug: Scoop NZ: Press Release: New Zealand Labour Party: Carbon forestry in free fall
    The National government’s refusal to restrict cheap international units under the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) has caused significant damage to the carbon forestry sector according to new figures released today says Labour’s Climate Change spokesperson Moana Mackey.
    “Only 0.3% of units surrendered under the ETS in 2013 were forestry units. This is just 141,253 units compared to the 5,325,191 surrendered in 2010.
    “99.5% of units surrendered by polluters to meet their obligations were international units.
    “It is also deeply concerning that more than 700 foresters left the scheme last year…
    “Labour will support the forestry sector by restricting cheap international units, removing the two for one subsidy for polluters, and fixing the ETS…
    “We are heading towards the edge of a cliff post-2020. We need to be providing incentives to plant trees now to offset the level of deforestation which we know is coming.”
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1408/S00040/carbon-forestry-in-free-fall.htm

    4 Aug: Scoop NZ: Press Release Green Party: New multi-million dollar bill for taxpayers under failed ETS
    New figures showing taxpayers forked out nearly $6 million in the last year on free pollution permits to Rio Tinto show the emissions trading scheme (ETS) must go, the Green Party said today.
    According to the figures, the number of free New Zealand Units (NZUs) allocated to New Zealand Aluminium Smelters Ltd (part of Rio Tinto Alcan) under the ETS jumped from 300,000 in 2012 to over 1.5 million in 2013.
    At today’s spot NZU price of $3.90, that amounts to $5.85 million worth of credits. Allocations to several other big polluters have also risen.
    “The ETS is a failure and a fraud and it’s time taxpayers stopped footing the bill for it,” said Green Party climate change spokesperson Dr Kennedy Graham.
    “The scheme needs to be put out of its misery so ordinary New Zealanders are no longer shouldering the cost of climate pollution.”…
    Some of these polluters have then surrendered much cheaper international units to meet their emissions obligations under the ETS (a process known as “arbitrage”), thereby profiting at the expense of New Zealanders.
    ***“These latest figures show the National Government is incapable of understanding the basic economic tenets of climate policy”, said Dr Graham…
    The Green Party announced last month it would scrap the ETS and introduce a fair and transparent carbon tax, the revenue from which will all be returned to households and businesses in the form of tax cuts…
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1408/S00044/new-multi-million-dollar-bill-for-taxpayers-under-failed-ets.htm

    ***what are the “basic economic tenets of climate policy”? nothing but nonsense. end the scam in its entirety.

    00

  • #
    pat

    3 Aug: WSJ: Mike Kelly: Pushing Back Against Obama’s War on Coal
    A dozen states filed suit on Friday to stop an ideological EPA campaign that will damage the U.S. economy
    (Mr. Kelly is a Republican congressman from Pennsylvania)
    Coal generates 40% of America’s electricity—more than any other energy source. Its stable price and abundance insulates the U.S. economy from spikes in energy demand. Yet the EPA is proposing to destroy coal’s benefits by imposing onerous emissions standards on all existing power plants, under the threat of crippling fines, which is certain to lead to plant closures…
    The EPA’s war on coal has troubling economic implications for every American and U.S. business…
    By keeping energy rates reliably low, coal helps give U.S. manufacturing its global edge against foreign competitors…
    Coal also provides, directly and indirectly, hundreds of thousands of jobs across the country. In my state of Pennsylvania, more than 40,000 jobs are tied to coal production, including thousands of manufacturing jobs in factories powered by coal. Federal regulations have already forced two plants in my district to close over the past two years…
    What is the point of all this pain? China and India, not the United States, are the biggest emitters of carbon dioxide from coal. China alone has increased coal production by more than 24% since 2005…
    http://online.wsj.com/articles/mike-kelly-pushing-back-against-obamas-war-on-coal-1407098882

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  • #
    Bulldust

    What constitutes an environmental blog at the ABC anymore … simply spruiking another donation-seeking advocacy group with chief advisors Suzuki and Lovejoy:

    http://www.abc.net.au/environment/articles/2014/08/04/4059150.htm

    Hilarious that the main “related story” is by Ehrlich. Quite the rogues gallery…

    Sara Phillips’ minibio:

    Sara Phillips has been an environment journalist and editor for eleven years. Learning the trade on environmental trade publications, she went on to be deputy editor of ‘Cosmos’ magazine and editor of ‘G’, a green lifestyle magazine. She has won several awards for her work including the 2006 Reuters/IUCN award for excellence in environmental reporting and the 2008 Bell Award for editor of the year.

    I am surprised the official ABC logo isn’t green with a tinge of red…

    20

  • #
    Peter C

    What is the point of all this pain?

    Indeed, what is the point!
    The people of Geelong are going through devastating job losses at present, firstly with the loss of motor car manufacturing at Ford and now the closure of the Alcoa aluminium smelting plant at Point Henry.

    I imagine that most of the population of Geelong vote Labour. Do they not realise that we live now in a global economy and industries move to where the costs are the lowest. A Labour government might have continued to prop up high labour costs with massive tax payer subsidies, thereby dragging us all down together but it cannot last unless we become more competitive on costs. That means that we must take every natural advantage that we have. Low energy costs is the most obvious one, hence the wisdom of scrapping the carbon tax.

    But what does the Labour party want to do?

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      Peter I could say a lot about Geelong and it populations attitude towards retaining long term industries/employment but I won’t bother.

      I’ll let the Geelong Advertiser show this via the front page 31/07/14 http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/news/geelong/emotional-ceremony-brings-end-to-alcoa-smelter-at-point-henry/story-fnjuhovy-1227008793682 and then http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/news/geelong/m-farming-precinct-would-create-1000-jobs-backers-say/story-fnjuhovy-1227008562165

      So one of the last successful high local wealth generating industries will be replaced by a sustainability focused farm built on poor soils with known salinity problems?

      FU@$ing insanity that does not surprise me having dealt with Geelong City Council in the past, many in power are creaming themselves over the possible fruition of agenda 21 and will never let go of this as long as the population keep voting the wrong people back in.

      50

      • #
        the Griss

        Yonnie, so long as they are prepare to meet all environmental issues in a PROPERLY conducted environmental impact statement,

        and so long as they are prepared to do it without tax-payer assistance apart from that available to any other agricultural activity,

        and so long as the investors are willing to put up their OWN money , and possibly lose it…

        I don’t see a major problem.

        I assume they will grow the vegies under elevated CO2 concentrations :-)

        Is a great pity that Alcoa had to close and move production to where-ever it will now be done, taking jobs with it,

        … but thankfully, not decreasing global CO2 emissions by even one gram.

        41

        • #
          Yonniestone

          I have no problems with a private enterprise in a free market either, but I’ll guarantee that some public money gets filtered into this via some environmental NGO’s or local council initiative, my main point is the many people of Geelong are brainwashed into thinking so called renewable energy can replace coal/gas based supply and will get quite a shock when the recently industrial unemployed get offered jobs that pay a fraction of what they were used to.

          Heavy industry was not just a good mass employer the real benefit was training good quality tradespersons, often in house, that results in high quality products built to Australian standards plus the economic flow onto many other local businesses.

          Unfortunately having it good for so long can create a shortsighted greed where you get men working at 70+ years of age refusing to give up their cherry job while having 750K in super, owning their own home and other investment property outright, and yes I have personally seen this.

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  • #
    • #
      el gordo

      The see-saw effect might operate on smaller and larger timeframes and this could be reflected in the position of the subtropical ridge.

      00

  • #
    handjive

    31 July, 2014

    Nasa validates ‘impossible’ space drive

    Nasa is a major player in space science, so when a team from the agency this week presents evidence that “impossible” microwave thrusters seem to work, something strange is definitely going on.

    Either the results are completely wrong, or Nasa has confirmed a major breakthrough in space propulsion.

    10

  • #
    el gordo

    The Null Hypothesis

    ‘Atmospheric circulation in the southern mid-latitudes is dominated by strong circum-Antarctic zonal west winds (ZWW) over the latitude range of 35 to 60°S. These winds exhibit coherent seasonal and interannual variability, which has been related both to Antarctic (e.g. polar ice) and low-latitude climate (e.g. El Niño–southern oscillation) parameters. Historical and recent studies suggest that, at its northern margins, variability in the ZWW also has a marked quasi-decadal component.

    ‘Analysis of sea-level pressure and rainfall data for the Australian region, South Africa and South America confirms frequent indications of quasi-decadal variability in parameters associated with the ZWW, which appears to be in phase around the hemisphere. This variation broadly correlates with the sunspot cycle, and specifically appears to reflect sunspot-correlated, seasonally modulated shifts in the latitude range each year of the sub-tropical ridge over eastern Australia. Sunspot-correlated variability in the southern mid-latitudes is likely to have substantial effects on temperate climate and ecology and is consistent with recent models of solar effects on upper atmospheric climate, though the mechanisms that link these to winds and rainfall at sea level remain obscure.’

    Ronald Thresher

    10

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    Pete of Perth

    According to the West, study by Synergy says cross subsidy of solar by non-solar is only $3/year worse off.

    West

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      ROM

      So no need to subsidise solar anymore and they can starting charging solar panel owners for the use of the power lines when the panels put power back into the system and earn the owners, money.
      Just like the near broke Spanish government is doing to solar and wind now.
      Takes the cost load of lines and equipment that has to be modified to handle the solar panel return power flow from the non solar customers to the solar panel owners who are making money at the non panel owners expense.

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    Pete of Perth

    I would like to see the inputs into their “study” and what they left out.

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    ROM

    Pete @ 30

    Pete, this is just one of the items that they left out . And this is from hard data from the germans who are close to being the largest renewable users in the world and who are now starting to back out as they begin building a whole new generation of coal fired power generators using cheap American coal.
    American coal is cheap as there is now a surplus of  coal is the USA due entirely to the amounts of cheap gas available from fracking. So instead of firing their steam generators with coal they are going over to straight gas form the boilers or Combined Cycle Gas Turbines [ CCGT ] which are cheap and quick to install by comparison but only have a life of 20 or 25 years.

    I’ve got another just completed study somewhere but can’t locate it at the moment, on the cost effects of the intermittency of renewables on the base load power costs which is pretty horrendous and degrades the life of the base load generators which are built for continuos operation at around the 85% capacity. But then have to load cycle up and down from near nothing to full load sometimes in minutes with the renewables as a substantial part of the power source. Consequently they are already discovering that serious maintenance problems are showing up in the base load generators due fatigue induced by the renewables imposed load cycling.
    Another cost we will have to pay and which will be hidden in the ever larger power bills.

    The Effect of Intermittent Renewables on Electricity Prices in Germany

    [ quoted]
    Highlights
    A strong negative correlation between the percentage of intermittent generation on the grid and the price received by solar and wind generators was established from German electricity data for the year 2013.
    This negative correlation will increasingly hamper the competitiveness of intermittent solar and wind which are expected to be the primary drivers of the Energiewende from this point forward.

    _________________
    And if we went to all renewables this is an interesting bit of quite revealing thinking on the very serious consequences of a totally renewable and fully integrated grid.

    The Renewable Energy Reality Check

    [quoted]
    If, however. through some magical worldwide renewable energy mobilization, the number of solar panels and wind turbines was rapidly increased by a factor of 100, energy storage superstructures sprouted up everywhere and thousands of HVDC cables criss-crossed the countryside in 70 m wide cleared channels, renewable energy would suddenly appear much less green. Vast chunks of nature would be impacted by renewable energy infrastructure, the hazards of rare earth mining would rival those of coal today and e-wastes from decommissioned panels, batteries and turbines would be a major concern.

    Also
    The Fundamental Limitations of Renewable Energy

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    • #
      Rod Stuart

      I have a slight issue ROM. A CCGT power station easily has a life of 50 years or more. You might be thinking of SCGT (simple cycle gas turbine) used for peaking plants which typically use aero derivative gas turbines, and even then they are capable of operating for much longer periods but over the past few decades have become obsolete in 20 years or so. Generally speaking, a CCGT power station has at its heart a heavy duty gas turbine, typically manufactured by GE, Seimens, Alstom, or Mitsubishi, and afforded excellent operating and maintenance practise are capable of operating for as long as they are maintained. I know, picky, picky.

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      • #
        ROM

        Not picky at all Rod and my bad and my thanks for the correction.

        I should have checked the length of a CCGT generators life before making that comment.

        I try to write to hopefully inform. And most of all even if people disgree totally with me or even if I am wrong, I just hope to try and make people think about the subject and draw their own conclusions which might be very different to mine

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    Rod Stuart

    In the absolutely silly department, isn’t it amazing how far the environmentalist mindset will stray from practicality?

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    Annie

    I still get the giggles when I read Jo’s sub heading:

    “A home for lost thoughts”.

    It’s been a good read, both entertaining and thought provoking.

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    RWTH

    Please support the repeal of 18C

    Here: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WZYSHRF

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    Craig Thomas

    Any modern consumer of information and producer of thoughtful analyses is well aware of the importance of energy security. Mostly, such analyses are fairly theoretical. Many of the non-thoughtful just ignore them.
    Now, however, we are seeing the important role that modern technologies (wind and solar) are actually playing at this very moment in the field of energy security.
    The following NY Times is carrying a good article which covers the situation.

    Many of the less thoughtful would do well to pause their unfounded opiniation for a moment and try to absorb this information. I have excerpted a few key phrases to make it easier for those people.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/07/business/international/russia-may-be-losing-influence-over-european-energy-markets.html

    The chiefs of big gas middlemen … would sit down with their counterparts at Gazprom or Sonatrach… and work out long-term contracts linked to the price of oil.

    big industrial customers are insisting on prices determined by the actual trading of gas

    he European gas market is beginning to resemble that of the United States, where gas is priced according to what buyers and sellers will pay, not linked to much more expensive oil.

    Europe’s much-criticized renewables push is also influencing energy markets. In the first half of this year, 28.5 percent of German electric power came from renewable energy sources like wind and solar power — a nearly 4 percent increase over a year earlier. Britain is also surging ahead, with almost 15 percent of electricity coming from renewable sources, an increase of almost one-third.

    Although the growth of electricity generated by offshore wind farms and vast solar arrays is a nasty headache for fossil-fuel utilities, these unconventional power installations are reducing demand for gas and coal in Europe.

    Russia’s influence over European energy markets is weakening rather than growing stronger.

    Prices for future delivery of gas have dropped more than 30 percent over the past year on the British market

    The European Union, which has been under pressure from industries to ease back on costly new emission-cutting requirements, is taking note of this unexpected strategic gain from renewables, which comes as the Union is formulating energy policies for the next 15 years.

    On July 23, Günther Oettinger, the top European energy official, told reporters that a higher-than-expected energy savings target would be recommended for 2030 because of “the need for energy security in gas because of the situation in Russia and Ukraine,” according to Reuters.

    Whatever domestic energy supplies Europe can tap will strengthen its hand and serve as insurance. In that sense, renewables are important cards to hold.

    “The Ukraine crisis could act as a wake-up call for European decision makers to increase the use of renewable energy,” said Marcus Ferdinand, an analyst at Point Carbon, a research firm based in Oslo.

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