JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Al Gore admits defeat

The end of the Great Global Warming Scam is just that much closer.

Al Gore admits defeat:

“When you go and talk to any audience about climate, you hear them washing back at you the same crap over and over and over again,” he continued. “There’s no longer a shared reality on an issue like climate even though the very existence of our civilization is threatened. People have no idea! … It’s no longer acceptable in mixed company, meaning bipartisan company, to use the goddamn word climate. It is not acceptable. They have polluted it to the point where we cannot possibly come to an agreement on it.”

He’s uses all his science degrees to come back with an erudite answer to his critics:

It may be volcanoes.’ Bullshit! ‘It may be sun spots.’ Bullshit! ‘It’s not getting warmer.’ Bullshit!” Gore exclaimed.

Hat Tip Marc Morano: Climate Depot

Hockey Schtick has some fun with it.

Yes, and basically this is an unthreaded thread, where commenters can tell the news. :-)

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 4.6/10 (5 votes cast)
Al Gore admits defeat, 4.6 out of 10 based on 5 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/3vz5hgr

149 comments to Al Gore admits defeat

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    Speedy

    Of course, if he had a sound scientific basis for his arguments in the first place then he would have a case to argue. But he hasn’t.

    Cheers,

    Speedy


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    papertiger

    I kind of like his argument.
    When AIT came out. Bullshit!
    When Al won the Nobel. Bullshit!
    When Schwarzeneggar signed the global warming act a week before the election. Bullshit!
    The science is settled. Bullshit!
    Republicans like Bush, McCain, and Romney, ducking the issue.
    Bullshit!


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    Wendy

    “They have polluted it to the point where we cannot possibly come to an agreement on it.”
    What he means is that we (people who are skeptical of HIS views and “science”) refuse to take his word for it. ;-)
    Poor Al has spit the dummy.


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    Roy Hogue

    It couldn’t happen to a guy who worked any harder to get it.

    Of course he might have been better off if he really had a problem to talk about. But no such luck.

    I think in the end though, it was the Polar Bears working their revenge that finally got him. Never cross a Polar Bear or take the name in vain. Never! ;-)

    There sometimes can be a little justice after all.

    He still has all that money though!


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    If you have a case, you argue the case. If you don’t, you argue the law. If you can’t argue the law, you argue the procedure. If you can’t argue the procedure, you argue that you are a victim. If you can’t argue that you are a victim, you argue that you are Al Gore. That, he expects, should trump all defects in his argument. In his mind he is a giant among men, a Nobel prize winner, an inventor, an artist, a writer, a renowned speaker, a former Vice President, and, except for the stolen election in Florida, he would have been President. After which, none of this would have happened. Clearly it’s Bush’s fault.

    Al Gore is absolutely shocked that his arguments haven’t held up. After all, he did what any good politician would do and have done for tens of thousands of years. How could he not get away with it? It must be the internet he said he invented. It has been used to expose the truth about his words and behavior. The truth about the words and behavior of his fellow travelers has also been exposed. Consider the tragedy of his having to live with that for the rest of his life. Why, it is almost as if justice is being delivered to him on a gold platter.


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    Roy Hogue

    Papertiger,

    I second every last word!


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    Roy Hogue

    Lionell,

    I wish it was only Gore who is a legend in his own mind. There are far too many.


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    Fred from Canuckistan

    Wait till he starts cursing the hanging chads of global warming . . . that will be time to up his meds and put him on Harm Watch.

    What a moron . . .


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    zbcustom

    Open thread? Ok. A thought occurred to me when I was reading an item on carbon a sequestration project in Montana over at WUWT (… just another dry hole into which taxpayer money is sequestered.)
    While we hear so much about ocean “acidification,” why then are the same people not jumping up and down at the possibility that CO2 injection into rock strata might acidify reservoirs of ground water? Apologies if this issue has been raised already.


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    Tom

    Gore reverts to type — the type created by the zombie climate establishment: If you don’t accept our “science” without question, there is something wrong with you and you’re stupid; be the opposite of real scientists — question nothing, don’t be curious. I’m sick of being nice about it. I hope that anyone who is proven to have participated in a scheme using a known deception to extort money (in Australia’s case, to raise taxes) is treated like any other criminal and is sent to gaol. A day of reckoning approaches for the IPCC’s parrots in Australia.


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    1DandyTroll

    Yes, when you tell people they’re doomed, dead or dying, over and over and over again, and them people find out they’re not doom nor dead and only naturally dying, they tend to be sane enough not to believe in your catastrophic alarmist bull shite. Funny how communist demagogues never catch on though.


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    What happens when the people who own the worlds debts can’t get their own way. Do they chuck a tantrum? Watch out!


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    joseph

    It is a good thing Mr. Gore never debated Lord Monckton. Gore would have crushed Monckton with scientific data like Bullshit!


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    Steve Schapel

    I had never heard of the sceptical climatologist George Taylor. But this is a great and heartening interview:
    http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/15516


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    Rereke Whakaaro

    If you have a case, you argue the case. If you don’t, you argue the law. If you can’t argue the law, you argue the procedure. If you can’t argue the procedure, you argue that you are a victim.

    Well put.

    The only thing I would add, is that if you can’t argue that you are a victim, you argue religion and thereby deference to a higher state of awareness.

    Al Gore has long seen himself as being the anointed conduit to such enlightenment. He has seen the light, and he has experienced the rapture.

    It may be a form of psychosis – I am not qualified to have an opinion – but whatever goes on in that man’s mind, it has little concern for the welfare of us “little people”. Such lack of concern and compassion is now the hallmark of many senior politicians. It is becoming a necessary survival trait in international politics, and it therefore filters down to the national level.

    He is probably one of the most dangerous men on the planet. Nobody in the American political system gets to be an ex-Vice President, and a “voting-machine-bias” Presidential loser, without knowing where a lot of the bodies are buried, and without being owed a lot of large favours. His formal presentations are slick because they are scripted and tele-prompted; but his ad-hoc comments are full of bile and contempt for those of us who disagree, or do not understand, or are merely apathetic and bored by the whole thing. He is still active in Washington, and still wheeling and dealing behind the scenes in the Democrat party. He has money, he has influence, and he has power. It is hard to think of another puppet-master with so much clout. And the fact that it isn’t having the affect that he wanted, is arguably the root cause for all this frustration and his sudden outbursts.


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    val majkus

    the Climate Conversation Group now have the NZCSC audit results of NIWA’s review of the NZ temperature record (which readers might recall was peer reviewed by the BOM)
    links from here
    http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/08/what-warming/
    and the summary is

    We’ve reviewed that report and found serious errors. NIWA used the wrong method and created strong warming. We used the right method and found mild warming.

    a bit of cut and paste

    A public temperature record beyond dispute?
    Do we have a NZTR which is finally beyond dispute? No, we’ve found too much wrong with it. The new disputes are just beginning. This NZTR is excruciatingly awful. If there’s any whisper that this unscientific fiasco has influenced the wider picture in the Pacific or even the globe, we’ll be demanding it be corrected.

    There’s a strong possibility that the NZTR has been used across a wide swathe of the Pacific Ocean, falsely inflating temperatures for a large region.

    Everything depends now on what NIWA does next. Will they admit to their mistakes? Will they make things right? Will they, like last time, underestimate their opponents and try to fight their way out?

    Or will they confess to prefer being corrected than continuing in error? They are an organisation which does a whole lot of good things in New Zealand and it would be a pity to see their reputation soiled by a piece of inept or unethical work.

    The Coalition asks for the suspension of the new NZTR until it can be corrected. I would go further and expect whoever made the misguided decisions that resulted in the faulty NZTR to resign from NIWA.


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    Thumbnail

    Marlee Ranacher to speak – Canberra Convoy of No Confidence. And look at the thugs comments on the news article here: http://qcl.farmonline.com.au/news/state/livestock/cattle/sack-gillard-convoy-takes-its-rage-to-canberra/2249396.aspx?storypage=0


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    “Spending is the problem”, says Gore in relation to raising the debt ceiling.

    In 1901 the U.S. debt was less than $1.000.000.000, today it is approaching $15.000.000.000.000.

    “American Blackout”,a DVD featuring ex Congesswoman Cynthia McKinney goes into detail about the election fraud that saw George Bush elected President.

    Karl Marx once said,”I am not a Marxist”. He also once called his adherents “useful idiots”. In his book DAS KAPITAL,COMMUNISM? he said lets compare and contrast – the difference between Capitalism and Communism is that in Capitalism man exploits man and in Communism it’s the other way round.


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    Rereke Whakaaro

    It may be volcanoes.’ Bullshit! ‘It may be sun spots.’ Bullshit! ‘It’s not getting warmer.’ Bullshit!” Gore exclaimed.

    If you pose the question, “What could possibly be causing the steady rise in average global temperature?”, then this less than erudite response from the former Vice President, actually contains some logic. Yes, I am aware that you cannot define something by arguing what it is not, but with in the context of a frustrated outburst it is actually correct.

    Volcanic eruptions do impact the climatic conditions in the short term, but there is no direct evidence that they can impact longer term temperature trends.

    Similarly, there is no direct causal relationship between sun spots and changes in average global temperature. Svensmark’s hypothesis (in as much as I have understood it) is that sunspots and the formation of clouds, are both manifestations of some yet unknown influence or combination of influences.*

    And, within the timeframes we are considering, I thought we all agreed that the average global temperatures have been increasing since the Little Ice Age, at least within the boundaries of observational error and analytic precision.

    * Open thread comment:

    When we are looking at cyclic phenomena, we must always think in terms of combinations of influences. There are many cycles of events in the physical world, and they interact in complex ways, forming harmonics, creating additional frequencies, and creating their own interference patterns. This is why a note played on a cheap violin sounds different to the same note played on a Stradivarius – it is because of all the harmonics produced. It is also why the computer models, even running on “Super Computers”, can’t actually come to grips with all of the harmonic distortion being produced. At least not well enough to identify all of the frequencies (physical influences) involved. Hence, “show me the empirical evidence”.


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    JK

    Jo, when I ticked a thumbs up (or down) the numbers jumped by 3 to even 9 rather then just the one as intended.
    Bit of a technical problem? Reminds me of the way the global warmers have increased the world’s temperature to fit their agenda….

    [REPLY: Could be that many others ticked at the same time and by the time the screen updated it "jumped"? But's bugs are possible. Let me know. --JN]


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    Dave

    Halftime:

    Al Gore walks onto the stage at a UN meeting – the crowd jeers & boos, The Pope walks onto the stage and the crowd cheers. The Pope sits next to Al and says:-
    “Do you know that with one little movement of my hand I can make every person in this crowd go wild with joy! This joy will not be a momentary display, like those believers in CAGW, but go deep into their hearts, and they’ll forever speak of this day and rejoice”

    Al Gore replied “Bullshit!”

    So the pope backhanded the self-important rude little upstart and the crowd went wild!


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    matty

    It may look like an outburst but Gore would have carefully measured these lines for effect. That he thought it nesessary to do this says a lot about morale in the camp and the state of the battle. If it was WW2 we would be in sight of Berlin. As Jo pointed out a few weeks back we are one good documentary away from pricking this bubble – so where is it?


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    Jonas Rugthers

    Jo anne This is OT ut I think you need to read this carefully its simply amazing
    http://www.assassinationscience.com/climategate/
    Each relevant email is described. Its much much worse than we would ever have thought. For the first time you really get an idea of what these people were up to. BTW there are quite a few heroes included who objected and thank god they will e considered “heroes” in future. Its clear that Jones and Mann are mainly responsible. I have no doubt after reading these emails with the explanations for them, that they will eventually e prosecuted for Fraud or fired. The whitewash committees may also be in trouble.


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    Rereke Whakaaro

    Kevin Moore: #19

    “Spending is the problem”, says Gore in relation to raising the debt ceiling.

    The man is right again!

    I have been away from this site, worrying precisely about this problem (not about Gore being right, but about the spending).

    The American economy is, and has been since the middle of last century, spending above its’ means of wealth production.

    In the process, it is borrowing economic wealth from the rest of the world. It is also borrowing the benefits of economic production from future generations. This is obviously not sustainable in the longer term, since it passes the responsibility for repaying that economic debt onto our children, grandchildren, and possibly our great-grandchildren.

    Congress has always seen this as being a potential problem, so there has always been a limit on the amount of Sovereign Debt that the nation could carry. Until about fifty years or so ago – well within the lifetimes of many Americans – that debt ceiling had never been breached. America could always cover its debt by producing more goods and services for the rest of the world.

    Then around the time of (or possibly because of) the Vietnam War, America found itself in the position where it was in danger of breaching its own debt ceiling. In response to this, Nixon and Congress decided that the easiest thing to do was to raise the ceiling by taking the US Dollar off the gold standard again (there were precedences). Each time the debt limit has been reached in subsequent administrations, the President of the day, and the Congress, have sat down and agreed to raised the debt level again, as if this was actually creating more economic wealth. It was expected that the same thing would happen this time.

    But this time, because of the high levels of unemployment (for America), the “greening” of attitudes in the American population, the obvious shift of manufacturing production to Asia, the “Conservative Green” influence in many of America’s export markets, the ripple-down effect of Carbon trading, Tea Party activism (with a small “a”), the shift in power in the Senate, the coming Presidential elections, and the lack of “yes we did” statements coming out of the “yes we can” rhetoric of the last Presidential campaign, have all conspired to have the politicians ask, “Wait a minute, is this such a good idea?”

    It has suddenly dawned on the American political claque that they are no longer the sole ruler of the world. China has not only moved to the top table, it is sitting close to the head of that table, and its influence is certainly not aligned with American destiny, in the way that European influence once was (before “the colleagues” started their current “Great Experiment”).

    And when America acquires sovereign debt, where does that originate? China.

    Is China happy to loan huge sums of money to America? You bet they are. And if America cannot get its spending and taxation under sufficient control to start paying down on its debt, then China will be happy to lend them more money, and yet more still.

    Because the Chinese, having been around in one form of dynasty or another for thousands of years, have a long-term view of matters. It will be quite content to continue loaning money to America until the point where the debt is higher than the sum total of America’s assets. At that point, China will own America.

    “Won’t happen”, I hear you say, the amount of money involved would be astronomical. Very true. But with a deficit running at around 1.4 trillion a year (budget: 2 trillion, expenditure: 3.4 trillion), and with a “Public Debt” (all debt instruments issued by the Treasury that are owned by non-US Government entities) running around 59% of GDP; and a “Gross Debt” (which includes both public debt and Governmental debt) running around 80% of GDP, the ability of America to trade its way out of difficulty is perilously close to the brink. Think about it. For every dollar America earns, eighty cents goes to paying off debt, America has to learn to live on the remaining twenty cents.

    Questions: Why, taking the longer view, does China feel the need to invest in aircraft carriers? Are not aircraft carriers the projection of a country’s power onto the world stage? Is not such a projection yet another means of exercising geopolitical influence over other nations?


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    John of Cloverdale WA

    Malcolm TurnBULL is our Al Gore. A Goldman Sachs man.


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    Bulldust

    Hate it when people use my name in vain >.>


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    Steve Schapel

    Rereke (#24)…

    Thanks a lot for that very clear summary. I learnt a lot from what you wrote.


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    MadJak

    I kinda feel irresponsible for writing this, but after 3 years of no root causes to the GFC being addressed (not ONE!), I have totally given up on the ability of our worlds leaders to do anything of importance properly. Their incompetance is only eclipsed by their Idealistic naevity.

    Safe as houses: BULLSHIT
    We don’t need to pay down debt in the good times: BULLSHIT
    The glass siegels(?) act is no longer relevant in a globalised economy and hinder growth: BULLSHIT
    We don’t need to worry about the deficit : BULLSHIT
    Globalisation reduces financial Risk: BULLSHIT
    CDOs are Triple A Rated: BULLSHIT
    Borrow more money to get out of Debt: BULLSHIT
    Don’t worry, it’s just a recession: BULLSHIT
    The worst is behind us : BULLSHIT
    Wall St aren’t the biggest bunch of Parasitic Bludging beneficiaries in history: BULLSHIT. They most certainly are.

    Buckle up folks, this AGW scam is going to dissolve quickly once the big D takes hold. Unfortunately History tells me that when consumers stop consuming, Producers must produce for something – otherwise you don’t have an economy. So Producers produce for destructive means and consumers get wiped out. I hope having a consumer driven economy will mean something different this time – I really do.

    They’ll call this GFC II. It’s not, it’s all those recessions the anointed ones found too politically inconvenient to have – they’ve all ganged up and are gonna knock us real bad. Most of the wealth during the great depression was wiped out in 1933, not 1929. We seem to have an exact carbon copy.

    Read into this what you will. I really hope I’m wrong here, but we’re in for a really rough ride. Everyone would be well advised to prepare to be adaptable.

    Fiat currency should be double ply with perforations. This way it will allways be worth something.

    Rereke: Would you be OK with the mods giving me your email?


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    gnome

    Do they still have debtor’s prisons in China?


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    MadJak

    Rereke,

    Right now I think we need the worlds best and independant minds working on this exact issue. History tells us the only thing that breaks depressions is a large scale war. This has to be avoided at all costs.

    Right now the “west” whatever that means. Is naive, ignorant and wealthy. Ripe for the pickings, if you ask me.

    And as for the greenies – good one guys for making us weaker. Wait to see what a war does to our environment, numb nuts!


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    Wayne, s. Job

    It was a pleasure to read Gore’s hissy fit, the implications of his admittance that audiences are anti to his message means only one thing. The end is nigh for the religion of AGW in the spotlight,exit stage left with hissing and booing. I am starting to feel some pity for those brain washed enough to be effected badly by it’s demise.

    No pity for those that have led the charge,for they will go down in history as inter national fraudsters and carpet baggers.If not prosecuted they will end up lepers shunned by people.


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    The fact that only the principal on interest bearing debt is issued into existence means that the debt is non repayable unless we have debt free immigrants continually arriving and the linear process continues by borrowing more until the stage is reached where every tax dollar is not enough to pay the interest on the loan. Politicians can’t
    understand ‘climate change’and they haven’t got a clue about compound interest.

    When the linear line slows,then cannibalistic capitalism starts and continues until there is only Walmart.


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    In April of 2009, I ran up a Post comparing the eco conscious Al Gore and that arch villian eco vandal George W Bush, nothing to do with politics, just where they both lived.
    Who Owns These Two Houses
    Incidentally, with respect to the original Kyoto protocol.
    We all implicitly ‘know’ it was that vandal Bush who failed to do anything about it in the US, still the only Country on the Planet not to have added that vital second signature, ratifying the Protocol and thus agreeing to bide by it.
    The Protocol was not presented to Congress after the Senate voted not to ratify it.
    That vote was 95 – 0. Not one vote in favour.
    The Administration that did this.
    Not the dreaded vandal GW Bush, but the Clinton Administration with yep, Al Gore as Vice President.
    95 -0
    Good to see Al tried hard on that one.
    The two houses thing, well, the old ‘urban legend’ furphy arose from that as, well, quite obviously really, greenies sought to discredit it.
    It’s no urban legend, and there’s a Snopes link in the Post that backs it up, even if Al has since moved. If you read the comments, at that Post, the last one indicates what his new house is consuming.
    Tony.


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    JMD

    Actually, Al Gore is right

    the very existence of our civilization is threatened

    it’s just that it has nothing to do with the climate. The government has completely corrupted civilization’s most precious commodity – money – to serve its own agenda, e.g. carbon credits & has destroyed the foundations of modern civilization in the process.

    People do have no idea! and that’s the way the government likes it.


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    Bob Malloy

    Jonas Rugthers:
    August 7th, 2011 at 9:19 am

    Jo anne This is OT ut I think you need to read this carefully its simply amazing
    http://www.assassinationscience.com/climategate/

    Jonas, Im sure Joanne is already aware of John Costella’s fine work on the Climategate emails.

    His work can be found in PDF format at the following:

    http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/reprint/climategate_analysis.pdf

    http://www.lavoisier.com.au/articles/greenhouse-science/climate-change/climategate-emails.pdf


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    Bulldust

    The horror…. the horror… (over at WUWT):

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/08/05/australian-government-prepares-for-massive-climate-disruption/

    Good for a giggle, especially fans of old sci-fi disaster flicks.


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    u.k.(us)

    “Al Gore admits defeat”
    ====
    With all due respect, this will never happen.
    It is just not in his genes.
    His mind has stopped taking in information.
    He has become his own “inconvenient truth”, with nothing to show for his “efforts”, except a giant waste of time and money that could have been better spent.
    Quite the legacy.

    [REPLY: This is as good as it gets. Him trying to explain (with slurs) why it all went wrong. JN]


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    Does Gore think that climate can only be changed by one factor at a time? Solar activity is obviously affecting climate and major volcanic eruptions also contribute. CO2 also probably has a minor effect. It would seem Gore is denying natural factors.


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    [...] Al Gore laments the fact that Americans just aren’t buying his crap anymore. What else would you expect towards a self-confessed liar. [...]


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    B Wood

    This is almost as funny as Marc Morano’s chidish web site or any press release from Heartland.

    Typical rerferences to [snip...] research that does not hold up to vetting and Al Gore bashing.

    [Looks like you'll be stuck in moderation til you justify the namecalling or apologize. --JN]


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    Steve Schapel

    Bulldust (#36)…

    This one is also good fun…

    I wanna be Bobby’s girl
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGHiJF4TWw8


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    Hockey Schtick has some fun with it.

    Yeah.

    I also made fun of Gore’s fear of debating those “deniers”,at his blog.

    This is a man who has had many debates over the years as a Representative,Senator and Vice President.But after he retires from political office.He is suddenly a debate coward.

    A debate COWARD!


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    Al $$$ Gore visited one of my parks I am responsible for in keeping the grass green,by running a sprinkler irrigation system.This was about year 2001 or so.He was at the city water intake area on the Columbia River.The main source of water they treat into a potable grade for safe consumption.

    I remember being angry that day because I wanted to inspect the 25 horsepower pump I use for irrigating part of Leslie Groves Park in Richland Washington.But could not because HE was right there doing his AGW bullshit! His security team made sure I could not get within 100 of the creep.

    I despised him then and despise him now.He is a world class SCUM!


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    J.H.

    Bluddy hell…. There is NO pleasing this Guy. I have never done anything except listen politely and carefully to everything Al Gore has said. I have examined his claims, and like that British Judge, found them to be wrong. No Biggie. Yer just wrong Al.

    Now he becomes unreasonable and intemperate in his language….. I can’t understand it. There is no pleasing this crowd. You be polite and reasonable, logically point out the flaws in their arguments…. Al starts swearing at you!

    Ah well, I ‘spose it’s just Al Gore. We’ve all become used to his, er, exotic personality. ;-)


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    DavidA

    I think he might actually believe it. Sure, milking it, but believes it too.

    Would someone knowingly go on record making such a putz of themselves?


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    Tel

    In April of 2009, I ran up a Post comparing the eco conscious Al Gore and that arch villian eco vandal George W Bush, nothing to do with politics, just where they both lived.

    Hey that’s an interesting article, it does confuse things when Gore owns so many properties.

    I will say that I disagree with your argument about buying Green Power as a product when it goes through the grid. If the windmill is putting X Watts into the grid and you are buying X Watts out of the grid then you do indeed get those exact same electrons that you paid for. The reason being that all electrons are exactly identical so the only statement that can meaningfully be made is how many you are getting.

    I know a lot of people are going to dislike this, but many quantum results are completely contrary to common sense, and I guess this is yet another one.


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    Peter Lang

    Steve Schapel,

    Thank you for that link. http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/15516 . Lots of good questions and answers; two examplews below:

    CC. When climatologists write about man-made climate change, they often pay lip service to it – saying how important continued studies are and so on. However, looking closely, often they don’t come out and say whether or not they actually subscribe to the theory. Are there really that many who believe in it, or has there been an effort to make it appear that more believe in it than actually do?

    “I absolutely believe that is one of the things the other side has done. They trot out agencies like the American Meteorological Society. I’m a member of that society, but a small group within that society came up with a statement supporting the other side. None of this is science. It’s all aimed at the court of public opinion, which has nothing to do with science.

    “So it all ends up being very political. Now I believe in conservation. Real conservation is always good. I ride a bicycle and I believe there are many things we can do in terms of conservation that make sense. But what I see more and more is these climate claims being used to justify insidious changes in energy policy. Some of these changes could have huge negative effects.”

    CC. To what extent did you feel like you were standing alone in resisting the man-made climate change theory back in the 1990s?

    “It was difficult. I knew that many of my colleagues at the Association of State Climatologists agreed with me. But many of them wouldn’t say anything because they were worried about losing their jobs or just plain having their professional lives made difficult. Frankly there’s a lot more money supporting the other side. Things would be easier if you just go along with them.”


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    Tel at comment 44,
    Let’s say the average household consumes 11,000KWH a year, around the average 30KWH a day.
    Connected to the grid in that area is just the one Wind Plant, 100 towers topped by 3MW nacelles for a Nameplate Capacity of 300MW. At 25% CF this plant produces 660GWH a year, which comes in at 660 Million KWH, or enough to provide for 60,000 homes, theoretically, because those homes consume electricity 24/7/365 while the Wind Plant only provides its power at that CF of 25%, or for only 6 hours a day.
    Say, every one of those homes pay the provider the increased price of the provision of what they label as ‘green power’, at a premium of more than the average 19 to 20 cents per KWH.
    Keep in mind that the provider is only the middle man, as the actual generating plant sells their power to the grid at the wholesale rate, subsidised by the Government to actually make that power (in some small way) competitive with the remaining plants connected to the grid.
    So, the provider is buying the power (for the overall grid) at wholesale from the Wind Plant, and then providing it to the consumer at the increased price, labelling it as (somehow) ‘greener’ than the rest of the power on that same grid.
    So, in effect that provider, the middle man, is making a profit from the consumer, over and above what they are purchasing the power for at wholesale.
    And then just ‘say’ that more than those 60,000 homes purchase this ‘green power’.
    Either way, the consumer is paying the inflated price for 24 hours of power, and the plant is only providing 6 hours of power, and if more than those 60,000 homes buy ‘green’, then the middleman is making clear profit for 18 hours a day, and clear profit for the extra homes.
    I know it’s sometimes difficult to see, and even more difficult to try and explain it, but the electrons on the grid are just that. Flowing electrons in the wires. The electron is not puffed up with its own ‘feel good’ importance that it has come from the environmentally conscious wind tower.
    That is the province of the consumer, who can hold his head high knowing he is better than the rest of us, because he has paid more for his power because it comes directly from the wind tower.
    Tony.


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    New UN Treaty in the Making

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=270953

    At a meeting of the United Nations in Rio de Janeiro next year, Kevin Rudd will probably be attending to sign a new treaty on Sustainable Development.

    “The goal of Sustainable Development is government control of consumption and production,directed by the U.N.. Note how this goal corresponds with the U.N. Development Program definition of Global Governance”.

    I bet Bob Brown can’t wait.

    Australia will have to comply because as a signatory to the U.N. Charter, Article 24:3 says – “The Members of the United Nations agree to accept and carry out the decisions of the Security Council in accordance with the present charter”.

    So,the battle is not over yet.


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    Betapug

    Al Gore can not use “all his science degrees” because he has none. His first intention in college was to major in English with the goal to (perhaps now realized) become a novelist. He did poorly in the only science related subjects he took and attempted no math at all.
    After playing pool for much of his first two years at Harvard, he became intensely interested in the power of the media in politics, as evidenced by the Nixon/Kennedy TV debates and he eventually graduated with an A.B. degree in Government. The title of his senior thesis: “The Impact of Television on the Conduct of the Presidency, 1947-1969″.
    Following graduation from Harvard, he enlisted in the Army, served in Vietnam (apparently as a journalist) and on return he began Divinity studies at Vanderbilt. He dropped out after a couple of years, worked as a journalist, started and quit law school and then was elected to his fathers Senate seat, spending the next 17 years in the US Congress.
    Much of his recent behaviour seems explained by the background of a bright, passionate guy, able to communicate, but without the training in research and experimental discipline.
    Interestingly, his grades were below those of the much ridiculed George W. Bush. There is much more intrique and ironic details about the family and it’s fortune in the bio of his father and his relationship with the Soviet agent, Armand Hammer. Fascinating reading.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore


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    memoryvault

    Tony, Tel etc on “Green Power”

    If I can just chuck in two bob’s worth.

    A significant amount of the “green power” doesn’t even come from anything like “green” sources. Let us say a REALLY dirty power station – a forty-year old one powered by heavy fuel oil – retrofits some newly-designed blades to their turbines, thereby increasing efficiency by 5%.

    THAT 5% “extra” power now generated by burning the same amount of HFO is considered “green” energy and can be sold as such.

    I think a lot of greenies would be surprised to learn that a significant amount of their “green energy” is actually the result of technological improvements to old, “dirty” power stations.


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    Louis Hissink

    Kevin More @ #47

    Agenda 21 is actually the replacement of the Kyoto Protocol. When the US Senate rejected it 99-0 during Clinton’s presidency, the Democrats then went on a different route to achieve their goals since Kyoto was blocked. Hence the locally focussed sustainable development agenda where the goal is implemented at local government level, rather than higher at at a federal level.

    So indeed the battle is far from over – except that the sustainability agenda is far more covert than many realise. It’s in play at local government level, increment by increment with the ALP and Greens controlling local councils etc. So we really need to start acting at our local governments, and not waste too much time on the Federal and State levels.


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    This cartoon style video re freedom is well worth a watch:

    http://www.freedom.org/


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    Winston

    Gore has nobody to blame for this abject propaganda failure but himself. Who’da thunk it? An ex-investment banker with next door to no scientific credentials not being believed when making pronouncements about climate as though he had the word of God at his disposal. Mmmmmm. This total rejection is equally the end result of “the science is settled” nonsense that has blighted the AGW cause from the beginning. He has grossly overestimated his own intelligence and gravitas, while underestimating those independent thinkers whose opinions he has attempted to railroad with his AIT infomercial.

    American hard sell (eg. call 1800climate in the next 15 mins and you will receive a free AIT T-shirt, Greenpeace poster and a free set of steak knives), with Hollywood glossy overkill and emotional tear-jerking, was never going to work in their favour beyond an initial placebo effect. Once the brain cells of the average punter clicked in, then the “facts” surrounding the whole philosophy would have to stand on their own two feet, but alas they don’t really gel together and make sense to the majority of thoughtful people out there. Coupled with the lack of integrity and collusion demonstrated by the Climategate emails, plus the nonsensical “solutions” to mitigate against the so called problem being so ham-fisted and illogical (ETS and CRT), is it any wonder that even those with passing understanding have become completely underwhelmed by the whole issue?

    “Epic fail” is, I believe, the blogosphere terminology that best sums up the man and his “vision”.

    BTW, when the American people had a presidential election choosing between George W and Al the Bankers pal, they really did have Hobson’s choice didn’t they? Which ever way they went they were on a loser. Ironically, as bad a president as Bush may have been (certainly economically, anyway), it says volumes for Al Gore that they probably made the right choice in the end!


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    Siliggy

    “Yes, and basically this is an unthreaded thread, where commenters can tell the news.”
    Have a look at the sudden turn toward more Arctic ice: Click here Then then have a look at the not quiet so up to date SOURCE TSI: Click here
    Reckon the TSI line will come back up a bit soon?


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    pat

    stating the bl***ing obvious:

    7 Aug: Adelaide Advertiser: AAP: Poll says retailers will pass on Carbon Tax cost
    The Australian Retailers Association study also found almost 80 per cent of shop owners thought they would lose trade as a result of the tax…
    ARA executive director Russell Zimmerman says the results show the carbon tax will add insult to injury for retailers already battling falling consumer confidence…
    Some 85 per cent felt the carbon tax would reduce their profitability.
    Only six per cent of the businesses said they would not pass increased costs on to their customers…
    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/poll-says-retailers-will-pass-on-carbon-tax-cost/story-e6frea6u-1226110314977


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    pat

    the absolute contempt this govt has for business is truly shocking. no way must this legislation pass:

    7 Aug: Ninemsn: Market turmoil won’t stop carbon tax: govt
    The federal government will not delay the introduction of its carbon tax due because of the recent volatility in international financial markets, frontbencher Chris Bowen says.
    Mr Bowen said on Sunday the Australian economy was one of the strongest in the world and this needed to be recognised.
    “We have an economy that many treasurers and finance ministers and prime ministers around the world would die for,” he told Network Ten on Sunday…
    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8282339/market-turmoil-wont-stop-carbon-tax-govt


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    Winston

    The federal government will not delay the introduction of its carbon tax due because of the recent volatility in international financial markets, frontbencher Chris Bowen says.
    Mr Bowen said on Sunday the Australian economy was one of the strongest in the world and this needed to be recognised.
    “We have an economy that many treasurers and finance ministers and prime ministers around the world would die for,”

    It won’t be a strong economy for long with an attitude like that, now will it! It’s no excuse, Mr Bowen, to shoot it in the head, tie it up and leave it to bleed to death, no matter how “strong” it might be!

    To all those who thought that ” a change would be good” when voting for Kevin 07, I hope they now understand those sage words-”Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it”


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    Dave

    Professor Snow Barlow

    I love wine and now the Professor says it’s being affecetd by CAGW.

    “Wine growers, whose produce is vulnerable to climate change, will have two choices”

    “You can either change the style of wine you make, or move.”

    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/environment/climate-change/vineyards-count-days-to-change-in-flavours-20110724-1hvei.html#ixzz1UKPCcK5Q

    Then check out who he works for:
    http://theconversation.edu.au/profiles/snow-barlow-256

    Snow chairs the Expert Assessment Panel of the DAFF climate change R & D program , convenes the Primary Industries Research Adaptation Network of the National Climate Change Adaptation Research Facility(NCCARF) and is a member of the Minister’s NGO Roundtable on Climate Change and the Land Sector Working Group .

    Gravy Train Groupie – there should be a list of all that are leading us the Agenda 21/CAGW Garden Path


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    Madjak

    Hey CHRIS BOWEN,

    Here are a couple of words you need to get familiar with, really quickly

    R-E-C-E-S-S-I-O-N
    (unfair I know, more than 1 syllable)
    D-E-P-R-E-S-S-I-O-N
    (hang in there, the next one is an easy one)
    W-A-R

    Chris might be well advised to know that its the last rats on the ship that people tend to remember.


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    pat

    why isn’t the MSM reporting details such as these?

    5 Aug: Reuters: Carbon offsets near record low, worst performing commodity
    A worsening global economic outlook has dented prices for
    emissions permits which depend on a robust economy belching
    greenhouse gases into the air, and has also impacted oil,
    grains, coal and natural gas.
    Carbon offsets have fared uniquely badly because a U.N.
    climate panel continues to print new offsets, regardless of a
    widening glut in emissions permits in the main demand market,
    the European Union’s carbon market…
    “If the European economy goes through a double dip
    (recession) it could be a lethal threat for the carbon market,”
    said Marius-Cristian Frunza, analyst at Schwarzthal Kapital…
    Failure by countries to agree a new round of carbon caps
    after 2012 under drifting U.N. climate talks, has further curbed
    prospective demand.
    The financial crisis has blown off course talks to agree a
    global climate deal, which now seems years off. The CER market
    had a traded value of $18.3 billion last year, down from $26.3
    billion in its peak year 2008.
    Adding to CER woes, the EU has banned from 2013 imports of
    the most common type of offset, from refrigerant plants in
    China, prompting investors to dump these.
    Benchmark CERs fell as low as 7.4 euros on Friday,
    down more than 7 percent on the day, fractionally above an
    all-time low of 7.15 euros.
    Prices are now at around cost price in developing countries,
    squeezing margins for project developers such as London-listed
    Camco , whose shares were down more than 10 percent at
    midday, and by nearly 40 percent over the past month.
    Rival developer Trading Emissions PLC last week
    pulled a proposed sale of its assets because of falling carbon
    prices. Its average CER costs are 7.5 euros per tonne…
    http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFL6E7J50VS20110805

    again i say individuals can stop this madness by requesting forms from your Super Fund/s to ennable you to move your funds into cash for the timebeing, explaining you are doing it because you do not want any of your Super being invested in crappy “carbon” companies.


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    Rereke Whakaaro

    MadJak: #29

    I have no problem with the moderators passing on my address to you. Moderator, please note.

    The email address that the moderators will give you will forward a message on to me, which I will then respond to.


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    Rereke Whakaaro

    MadJak: #31

    History tells us the only thing that breaks depressions is a large scale war. This has to be avoided at all costs.

    I agree, but your emphasis is wrong: “… the only thing that breaks depressions is a large scale war.”

    Once you are in a depression, war becomes inevitable. It might be delayed, but it cannot be avoided. It was possibly this realisation on Capitol Hill, that was the game-changer this time around. Now what is required, is for the politicians to realise that you cannot buy your way out of financial trouble by spending more on welfare, nor can you do it by lowering the income derived from taxation.


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    Rereke Whakaaro

    Tel: #47

    The electrons that go into the grid don’t actually go anywhere. They just shuffle up and down the wire a bit, and they do it 50 or 60 times a second.

    People do not actually get the electrons they pay for, and it is a travesty that they don’t. ;-)


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    Speedy

    Dear Albert Gore.

    To (mis)quote Abe Lincoln:

    You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.

    Time’s up, baby!

    Cheers,

    Speedy


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    Rereke Whakaaro

    Kevin Moore: #50

    Australia will have to comply because as a signatory to the U.N. Charter, Article 24:3 says – “The Members of the United Nations agree to accept and carry out the decisions of the Security Council in accordance with the present charter”.

    The U.N. Security Council has a very clearly defined mandate regarding the handling of international disputes and the avoidance (where possible) of armed conflict.

    The U.N. Development Program is an entirely different organisation that has absolutely nothing to do with the Security Council. They both ultimately report to the U.N. General Assembly, but other than that, there is no connection.

    Australia therefore does not “have to comply”. Of course the lemming politicians may choose to jump off the cliff in a show of suicidal solidarity, but it will not be because of the Security Council.


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    Rereke @ 70

    Australia ratified the whole of the Charter by treaty in 1945, does that make any difference? Keep the Franklin Dam case in mind – sec.51:29 – the High Courts ruling making a signed treaty the supreme law of the land.


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    S&P has down-graded the US credit rating for the first time in history to AA+. I’m expecting carnage on the stock markets tomorrow. If we see a fall of more than 8% on Wall St then we can very well enter a global depression.

    I have no doubt that we’ll see some epic devastation on the Chinese markets.

    Most heard phrase of Monday: “Money is fleeing the market.”

    We’ll see some wealth consolidation with institutional investors scrambling to get their funds out of highly liquid assets. Hence, a brief property price spike in the US over the next month or two. We could also see commodity prices spiking over the coming weeks. Beef, grain and fruit are quickly going to become ‘safe havens’ for cash as US banks are now introducing deposit surplus fees. Which means, cash is now toxic. Expect resource stocks to plummet.

    The US has a great opportunity to lower, or remove, capital investment tax today. This will give the market somewhere to park its money while investing in local industry and jobs creation. Though, I don’t hold my breath for politicians to be that sensible, or timely.

    As an IT business owner I can see some dark days ahead for the big IT stocks. The first spending reductions in times of uncertainty are marketing and the big players; Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc, all rely on advertising revenue. On the upside of IT, we will see some wholesale business restructuring in retail which is going to give plenty of opportunities for infrastructure and systems development businesses(the social media gravy-train is about to dry up). I’m also eyeing off opportunities in unmanned combat systems(software, hardware and infrastrcture) as the DoD undergoes massive cost-cutting over the next decade.

    If this coming week goes poorly on the markets I can expect Oz to abandon these whole “carbon pollution” shennanigans pretty quickly. Saved by depression! How depressing.

    Last thought, the twenty teens will be known as the great contraction of the western middle class.


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    [...] Gore Unhinged! Loses it on skeptical claims: ‘They pay pseudo-scientists to pretend to be scie… [...]


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    MaryFJohnston

    Waffle @74

    Depressing but realistic.

    Wishing the people of America the best.

    We are not so bad off here — yet; but our general economy is R/S, the result of a leaderless nation whose politicians have bought votes with our hard won tax payments.

    At least for the moment we have mining??


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    pat

    Waffle -
    this week doesn’t look promising:

    6 Aug: UK Telegraph: Saudi stock market first to plunge on S&P downgrade
    Saudi Arabia’s stock market dropped 5.46pc on Saturday as it became the first exchange to react to the historic US credit downgrade
    Analysts expect markets in Asia and Europe to follow the Tadawul lower on Monday…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8686045/Saudi-stock-market-first-to-plunge-on-SandP-downgrade.html


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    pat

    even “intervention” can’t help, it seems:

    7 Aug: Jerusalem Post: Tel Aviv Stock Exchange opens to 6% losses as global crisis felt in Israel
    Losses come as international markets are left reeling by Standard & Poor’s downgrade of U.S. credit rating for first time in history.
    By The Associated Press and Vadim Sviderski
    Trading began for several minutes in Tel Aviv on Sunday, but suspensions began almost at once, as the bourse reverted to what has been dubbed an “English opening.”
    This measure aims to curb massive swings in the indices, primarily by extending the pre-opening trading phase in order to allow investors more time, in an effort to stabilize the market…
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/tel-aviv-stock-exchange-opens-to-6-losses-as-global-crisis-felt-in-israel-1.377396


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    John Q. Galt

    I love the use of shared reality. It’s so obvious Algore is the leader of a sociopolitical cult.


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    Papaya

    Perhaps Al Gore was simply trying to draw people’s attention to Penn & Teller’s Bullshit!, formerly aired on Showtime. Episode 13 of season 1 is entitled “Environmental Hysteria”. If I recall correctly, sapient voices of reason such as James Randi and fellows of the Cato Institute (a Libertarian think-tank of which Penn Jillette is himself a fellow) join the two debunkers to give an erudite introduction to the real pollution in the climate change debate. It’s still (presently) available on YouTube in two parts, and comes highly reccommended – though, send the kids out of the room, Penn & Teller: Bullshit! is a US cable TV programme, so naturally features some very strong language and possible nudity.

    Penn & Teller: Bullshit! – Environmental Hysteria, Part 1

    Penn & Teller: Bullshit! – Environmental Hysteria, Part 2


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    I’m looking at the Chinese market data, it’s a complete rout. There’s blood on the walls. The curious thing is the money looks primed to go to Hong Kong. The Hang Seng was down over 4% on Friday but it has a morning doji star pattern which has to be seen to be believed. It’s looking to be one of the few winners tomorrow. The day traders will provide confirmation within the first hour of opening.

    The other interesting to note is the Taiwan market. Money will not be flowing from China to it. The data makes it look like a rudder toy being fought over by two pitbulls(US & China).

    @pat:
    I wouldn’t touch energy stocks with a ten foot barge pole at the moment.


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    Roy Hogue

    In spite of his influence Al Gore is not just a has-been, he’s a never-was. His legacy is nothing but waste and trouble. I don’t think he has much left except what money can buy. I hope it comforts him suitably.

    I suspect that the climate we really need to be worried about is the political one. A change is overdue. I wonder if enough people are awake to pull it off.

    We once had leaders who spoke words like this:

    “One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

    “The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.” – Franklin D. Roosevelt

    “The buck stops here.” – Harry S. Truman

    “Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.” – John F. Kennedy

    “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall.” – Ronald W. Reagan

    We now have leaders who speak words like this:

    “It depends what your definition of ‘is’ is?” – Bill Clinton

    “That Obama … I would like to cut his nuts off.” – Jesse Jackson

    “Those rumors are false … I believe in the sanctity of marriage.” – John Edwards

    “I invented the Internet.” – Al Gore

    “The next Person that tells me I’m not religious, I’m going to shove my rosary beads up their ass.” -Joe Biden

    “America is is no longer, uh, what it, uh, could be, uh, what it was once was – uh, and I say to myself, uh, I don’t want that future, uh, for my children.” – Barack Obama

    “I have campaigned in all 57 states.” – Barack Obama (Quoted 2008)

    “You don’t need God anymore, you have us Democrats.” – Nancy Pelosi (Quoted 2006)

    “Paying taxes is voluntary.” – Sen. Harry Reid

    “Bill is the greatest husband and father I know. No one is more faithful, true, and honest than he.” – Hillary Clinton (Quoted 1998)

    And the most recent gem of wisdom from the Mother Moron”:
    “We just have to pass the Healthcare Bill to see what’s in it.” – Nancy Pelosi (Quoted March, 2010)

    Where can we go from here? But wait, all is not lost. Maybe states 51 – 57 can save us.

    Is it this bad in Australia too?


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    Roy Hogue

    I dread Monday morning!


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    We’re not called the ‘lucky country’ because of our political leadership. We’re not like the yanks, at least you folks once had leaders you could call heroes and look up to. Unfortunately, we’re all still the property of Her Royal Highness. I challange anyone to find an inspiring quote from an Australian politician.

    In the mean time, here’s the sort of dregs we have to put up with.

    In securing the future of the planet, we secure happiness for ourselves. One of the aims of the Greens is to turn around the tide of pessimism amongst the young people of the world.
    Bob Brown

    We see community organizations as major service providers and economic drivers rather than as recipients or distributors of charity, and coordinators of volunteers. Today they constitute what’s referred to as ‘the social economy’.
    Julia Gillard

    My name is Kevin, I’m from Queensland, and I’m here to help.
    Kevin Rudd

    Australians were unique due to our corals, our apples, our gum trees and our kangaroos.
    Harold Edward Holt

    Of all my wife’s relations I like myself the best.
    Joseph Cook

    If it is the duty of the State to educate, it is the duty of the State also to bear the burden of education, namely, the taxation out of which education is provided.
    Edmund Barton

    I say further that our system of education should be unsectarian.
    Edmund Barton

    Our cultural diversity has most certainly shaped our national character.
    Julie Bishop

    At the last census it indicated that about 22 per cent of Australians were born overseas.
    Julie Bishop

    Prevention is one of the few known ways to reduce demand for health and aged care services.
    Julie Bishop

    I believe we are in danger of being swamped by Asians.
    Pauline Hanson

    We need to get some people in here. There’s no passion out there. There’s always an excuse. Nobody wants to step up and be a pro.
    Jeff Malone

    I don’t think the U.S. alliance is worth this. Being a lap-dog to the United States is an outrageous concept, but that’s where we are, unfortunately.
    John Hewson

    Silence is best.
    John Hewson


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    Dr. Russell Blaylock telling of the harmful side-effects of the swine flu vaccine

    Alzheimers – population control – social engineering

    Ecuador Central.com

    http://www.ecuadorcentral.com/video_tapes/morevideos.html


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    RoyFOMR

    As much as I find Mr Gore unpleasant, he does what he does. If we don’t agree with his viewpoint then it’s up to us to sort things out. Attacking the man is just the Ad Hominem approach that we’ve, rightfully, disparaged but that is what so many on the ‘sceptic’ side are now employing.
    No need to, is my guess, the facts speak for themselves or they don’t!
    Attacking the man will only rally his supporters, polarise the debate and prolong the agony.
    Stick with the basics, avoid the instinctive retaliation and stay respectful.
    Anger is natural. I have it in trumps but calmness and deliberation is a much better option.


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    Gore is a director at the most prominent venture capital firm in the world — Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers.

    Gore stands to make billions of dollars if he can force us to use the technologies that he has invested in.

    I’m in the technology business. I live for technology.

    However, I am opposed to some political hack trying change laws to force us to do things so that he can enrich himself.


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    dlb

    “It’s no longer acceptable in mixed company, meaning bipartisan company, to use the goddamn word climate. It is not acceptable”

    How true, when someone brings the topic of climate change up, I say ” Do we really want to talk about religion and politics?”.


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    Grant (NZ)

    JMD @ 35

    CORRECTION: The world’s most precious commodity is people – not money. The problem is that money corrupts people.

    For an example of a person corrupted by money refer to the “eloquent” Al Gore.


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    Dr Russell Blaylock Nutrition and Behaviour Aspartame MSG

    Hypoglycemia, Hyperactivity

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2963728494205235281

    The war does not just concern climate change,there are many fronts.


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    Grant (NZ)

    Roy Hogue @ 83

    “we are not going to stop digging until we are out of this hole” Obama 2008

    Now if that one had have been uttered by his successor the media would have been all over it.


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    brc

    Rereke @ 25

    The irony is that Americans taxpayers will end up paying the Chinese the money to build the aircraft carriers that will one day face off on the ocean, whether in an actual conflict or just a saber-rattling game of bluff to show who has got the most power.

    I can see it happening that within this century the middle class Chinese will be driving around in large SUV’s while a large amount of American citizens toil in the way many Chinese people do, long hours in harsh conditions.

    Chinese wealth is being generated from it’s experiments in special economic zones – those strange dichotomies where the market is more free and unregulated than just about anywhere else. That freedom is ensconced within the borders of a communist state which just highlights the self-contradictions that ended communism.

    But, as you say, the Chinese people play a long game. They saw where Hong Kong got to in a single century of growth and I guess they thought this idea might be able to be rolled out across an entire nation. It sure beat 5 year plans and ripping up rice paddies to make steel mills.

    The only way out now is for the Americans to beat them at their own game. Special economic zones within the USA. Areas where the other rules do not apply. Where no funds flow to the Federal government, and in return, no Federal money is received. Where taxation and regulation is low, frivolous lawsuits are not possible, the size of government is restricted by law. Let them mint their own currency on a floating exchange rate. A fast-and-loose game of free markets where some people fail and others succeed, but all are responsible for their own destiny. Cordoning off Detroit and other defunct and derelict cities into special economic zones would unleash the power of the American people and let the rest of the country wake up to how it can be done, how it used to be done, how it really does work, why the Chinese are playing the long game of rolling out the Hong Kong model on a grand scale.


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    Radiation:

    “No matter where you live you receive 15 – 20 chest x-rays each year from environmental radiation…”

    http://www.solarstorms.org/Sradiation.html


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    Crakar24

    Too lazy to read all posts so if this has been mentioned i do apologies.

    To Rereke in 25,

    You forgot to mention that if the US wants to raise its debt ceiling (print more money) they can, they dont need to ask the Fed Reserve to print it off with interest.

    Question…..Why did Obumma not just print off the money he needed?

    Answer…..There have been 3 presidents that either did or wanted to print off their own money and therefore go back to the gold standard, MCGinnity did it, Lincoln did it and JFK signed an executive order to do it now what pray tell could these 3 presidents have in common?

    This is a lot more complicated than simple debt, the repealling of the glass-stegle act was a major screw up, Clinton claiming budget surplusses by looting the pension funds etc, the bail out and the on going cover up of fraudulent activities by wall street has left the American people destitute whilst the bankers get even richer. Remember The last official act of any corrupt government is to loot the people, the people of the USA are being looted.


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    MaryFJohnston

    Re 95

    “”The last official act of any corrupt government is to loot the people, the people of the USA are being looted.”"

    The people of Australia aren’t far behind.


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    GraemeHarrison

    I think that the article misquotes the Beyond Zero Emissions plan for a switch to renewable power over a couple of decades. The plan was costed at $155b from memory, which included about $30b of major powerline upgrades that would most likely be needed anyway.
    And by having solar and wind across the whole country, from Cairns to Perth, with a DC link of WA grid to SE grid, it became possible to use molten-salt solar towers in WA to help the evening meal cooking load in NSW and Victoria…
    When I see a $155b plan quoted here at over $4000b, I think the bias of the authors needs to be questioned.
    For an opportunity to see the other side, look at
    http://beyondzeroemissions.org/zero-carbon-australia-2020

    Graeme Harrison (prof at-symbol post.harvard.edu)
    Sydney


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    Overseasinsider

    Crakar, Who the heck is McGinnity??


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    Ken Stewart

    We live in interesting times. Hadn’t received my Census form yet so I rang the 1300 number from the website. Eventually got through- to a call centre in India! Spoke to a lovely Indian lady who couldn’t understand me, couldn’t even understand when I spelt out my address, town etc. Eventually got my address. Promised to get me a form asap. Lo and behold a couple of hours later the form arrives, but not as a result of my phone call but the one we were supposed to get last week, “just running a bit behind”, courtesy of a Kiwi lady with an accent so broad I could barely understand her. (I exaggerate a bit). Apparently no Aussies available any more?


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    Crakar24

    Overseasinsider 97,

    Forgive my failing memory i meant to write Mc Kinley.

    A bit more on the subject.

    In 1832 Andrew Jackson refused to extent the central reserve bank (CRB) charter beyond the agreed 20 year term and go back to the gold standard and used this in his campaign for president, after he became president Richard Lawrence attempted to shoot him twice but both pistols failed to fire.

    Lincoln baulked at the interest rate offered by the CRB and decided to print his own money (legal thing to do) and hence the birth of the green back to pay for the war against the south. After the war he wanted to go back to the gold standard etc but was assinated.

    In 1900 McKinley signed the gold standard act and in 1901 was shot dead by Leon Czolosz and we all know what happened to JFK and his execcutive order 11110 on June 4th, 1963. This order authorized the Treasury to issue a new government currency, the US Note, based on silver in Fort Knox, recycled from the huge magnets used in early Uranium enrichment at Oak Ridge. This allowed the Kennedy administration to purchase four billion dollars worth of goods and services without having to borrow the money from the Federal Reserve, and signaled Kennedy’s intention to restore the nations’ economic system to the model used by the Founding Fathers.

    A quote from a 1865 London Times editorial directed against Lincoln’s debt-free Greenbacks said it all:

    “If that mischievous financial policy which had its origin in the North American Republic during the late war in that country, should become indurated down to a fixture, then that Government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off its debts and be without debt. It will become prosperous beyond precedent in the history of the civilized governments of the world. The brains and wealth of all countries will go to North America. That government must be destroyed or it will destroy every monarchy on the globe.”

    As i said this is much more than simply debt, where do you think a majority of the TARP money went? It went to overseas banks that had bought up the junk sold by wall street and the US tax payer are left with the bill.


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    Crakar24

    Just a bit more (slow day)

    Quote from Andrew Jackson

    Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the Eternal God, I will rout you out.” — Andrew Jackson

    Thomas Jefferson

    “The Bank of the United States is one of the most deadly hostilities existing, against the principles and form of our Constitution. An institution like this, penetrating by its branches every part of the Union, acting by command and in phalanx, may, in a critical moment, upset the government. I deem no government safe which is under the vassalage of any self-constituted authorities, or any other authority than that of the nation, or its regular functionaries. What an obstruction could not this bank of the United States, with all its branch banks, be in time of war! It might dictate to us the peace we should accept, or withdraw its aids. Ought we then to give further growth to an institution so powerful, so hostile?” –Thomas Jefferson

    Again

    “Everything predicted by the enemies of banks, in the beginning, is now coming to pass. We are to be ruined now by the deluge of bank paper. It is cruel that such revolutions in private fortunes should be at the mercy of avaricious adventurers, who, instead of employing their capital, if any they have, in manufactures, commerce, and other useful pursuits, make it an instrument to burden all the interchanges of property with their swindling profits, profits which are the price of no useful industry of theirs.” –Thomas Jefferson

    In 1910, a group of private bankers met at a private island named Jekyll Island to plan the imposition of yet another private central bank on the people of the United States. As part of the ruse, they abandoned the unpopular name “Bank of the United States” and chose the name Federal Reserve to grant themselves the illusion that this was a government agency, when in point of fact it is just another privately owned central bank. Pretenses to the contrary notwithstanding, the Federal Reserve is no more “Federal” than Federal Express. It is a privately owned bank. Three years later, in 1913, Congress voted the Federal Reserve act and President Wilson signed it, redeeming a campaign promise to his financial backers. Six years later, as his Presidency came to a close, Woodrow Wilson wrote.

    “I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is now controlled by its system of credit.We are no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.” — Woodrow Wilson 1919

    I have saved this quote to last because it was written about 200 years ago but could have been written yesterday

    “I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.”
    Thomas Jefferson, (Attributed)
    3rd president of US (1743 – 1826)


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    Winston

    I think Crakar is referring to the 25th US President(1897-1901), William McKinley, shot dead by an anarchist (Leon Csolgosz) at the 1901 Pan American Expo in Buffalo. Ironically, he was the President who restored confidence in the American economy by proposing & then passing the Gold Standard Act of 1900 which promoted the economy after the stockmarket “Panic of 1893″. Perhaps Obama should follow his example by realigning the US dollar (as devalued as it is) with the Gold standard to restore confidence, and while he’s at it a forensic audit of the Federal Reserve wouldn’t go astray. Alas, if he did that, I think he would suffer the same fate as the aforementioned 3 assassinated Presidents.


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    Crakar24

    Winston,

    If Ron paul ever gets elected he will join that illustrious group.

    1, He is the only presidential hopeful not to go to Israel to get permission to be US president

    2, He wants to end the FED banking system and go back to the gold standard

    3, He claims the debt in reality does not exist which is true its just a paper debt so he will wipe the debt when he creates his own currency.

    The poor buggar wont last a day he would be shot by the standard “lone gun nutter” (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) before the inauguration LOL.


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    Winston

    My apologies, Crakar, I see you have already answered far more thoroughly than I did. My computer wouldn’t refresh the page so I didn’t see you had already responded to Overseas insider’s #97 query.


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    Winston

    Crakar @ 102, I seem to be one step behind you all the way today, BTW I agree wholeheartedly with those sentiments at 102. They’ll never let that happen, the swine!


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    theRealUniverse

    More on the defeat of the GHG theory, its all lapse rate.

    Professor David Archer of the University of Chicago has posted You-tube videos of his 10 week lecture series for non-science majors on climate change. In lecture 5, The Greenhouse Effect, Archer uses the Stefan-Boltzmann equation to calculate the supposed temperatures of Venus, Earth, and Mars with and without a greenhouse effect. Archer’s calculations show the greenhouse effect on Venus is wildly underestimated by 415C and wildly overestimated on both Earth (by 23C) and on Mars (by 19C) in comparison to actual observed temperatures. This is despite the fact that CO2 levels are very high and virtually the same on Venus and Mars (around 96%) and only trace (0.039%) on Earth. Archer says in the lecture that one would have to assume the Venus atmosphere behaves like multiple panes of glass in order to obtain an answer near the observed temperature, yet on both Earth and Mars one would have to assume the atmospheres behave like much less than one pane of glass. Leaving aside the fact that no atmosphere behaves like a pane of glass, climate scientists cannot claim that the greenhouse theory comes close to a unified explanation of temperature on any of these 3 planets. The simple fact is the adiabatic lapse rate (effect of pressure with altitude) fully explains the temperature profiles on all 3 planets without any need to invoke a supposed ‘greenhouse effect.’ See Shattering the Greenhouse Effect and Venus: No Greenhouse Effect.

    Exactly wake up. Argument over.


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    theRealUniverse

    Gore should be in Jail!


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    Tel

    People do not actually get the electrons they pay for, and it is a travesty that they don’t.

    As I said, all electrons are strictly identical. You put electrons in at one end, you get electrons out at the other end. Did you get out exactly what you put in? Yes you did.

    Therefore you get exactly the electrons you paid for, if you don’t believe that then show me the difference between what you got out and what you put in.


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    Brett_McS

    Clearly you people have become a major disappointment for Father Al. He had such high hopes for you. He put in so much of his time toward your education. And this is how you repay him!

    How could you!!!


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    Visualisation of U.S. 14 Trillion dollar debt in 100 dollar bills

    http://usdebt.kleptocracy.us/


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    TrueNews

    @Lionell #5

    Sorry I’m late on this thread but:

    Classic Mate

    Absolutely Classic

    *****


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    Raven

    @16 ….Gore is despised among many of the republicans , there are moves in play to bring him to account !!!
    That’s why this scumbag is coming unhinged . He is not too big to be brought down and he knows it , an educated guess is he doesn’t like the FBI sniffing around him . I wonder why . :)


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    TrueNews

    Rereke Whakaaro:

    Nice summations

    I concur with most of what you say.

    Regarding Volcano’s – Remember that (statistically) two thirds of Volcano’s are under the Ocean (Sea) and they spew out lots of ‘Hot Stuff’ to make the Ocean (Sea) warmer.

    Only a statistical evaluation – correct me if I an wrong.

    Otherwise – Top Posts Rereke.


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    Joe V.

    Did you all hear Cate , on ABC National Radio, talking about the Convoy, yesterday ?

    Every Australian needs to hear that speech.

    The striking difference in listening to Cate, from hearing your typical pollies talk, is No Bullshit. (hence the bringing it up in the present topic).


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    RoyFOMR

    Fantastic talk from Convoy Cate. Well worth the 15 minutes. Lifted my spirits and I’m in the UK.
    Thanks for the link Joe V.


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    Crakar24

    Roy in 83,

    All is not lost, here are some by a current politician

    “One thing is clear: The Founding Fathers never intended a nation where citizens would pay nearly half of everything they earn to the government.”

    “I’m convinced that you never have to give up liberties to be safe. I think you’re less safe when you give up your liberties.”

    “Under the United States Constitution, the federal government has no authority to hold states “accountable” for their education performance…In the free society envisioned by the founders, schools are held accountable to parents, not federal bureaucrats.”

    “The most basic principle to being a free American is the notion that we as individuals are responsible for our own lives and decisions. We do not have the right to rob our neighbors to make up for our mistakes, neither does our neighbor have any right to tell us how to live, so long as we aren’t infringing on their rights. Freedom to make bad decisions is inherent in the freedom to make good ones. If we are only free to make good decisions, we are not really free.”

    “1913 wasn’t a very good year. 1913 gave us the income tax, the 16th amendment and the IRS.”

    “Truth is treason in the empire of lies.”

    “A system of capitalism presumes sound money, not fiat money manipulated by a central bank. Capitalism cherishes voluntary contracts and interest rates that are determined by savings, not credit creation by a central bank.”

    “From the Great Depression, to the stagflation of the seventies, to the current economic crisis caused by the housing bubble, every economic downturn suffered by this country over the past century can be traced to Federal Reserve policy. The Fed has followed a consistent policy of flooding the economy with easy money, leading to a misallocation of resources and an artificial ‘boom’ followed by a recession or depression when the Fed-created bubble bursts.”

    “It’s time to rethink the whole system of HMOs and managed care. This entire unnecessary level of corporatism rakes off profits and worsens the quality of care. But HMOs did not arise in the free market; they are creatures of government interference in health care dating to the 1970s. These non-market institutions have gained control over medical care through collusion between organized medicine, politicians, and drug companies, in an effort to move America toward “free” universal health care.”

    “Another term for preventive war is aggressive war – starting wars because someday somebody might do something to us. That is not part of the American tradition.”

    “Don’t steal – the government hates competition!”

    “I am just absolutely convinced that the best formula for giving us peace and preserving the American way of life is freedom, limited government, and minding our own business overseas.”

    “We can achieve much more in peace than we can ever achieve in these needless, unconstitutional, undeclared wars.”


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    Raven

    Careful Crakar24
    “I am just absolutely convinced that the best formula for giving us peace and preserving the American way of life is freedom, limited government, and minding our own business overseas.”

    That’s core T party values …… :) :) :) ….some anyway , you forgot less taxation .
    I like it .


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    Raven

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/science-warms-to-iceberg-harvesting-idea/story-e6frg6so-1226110420439

    I expect to see all Australian climate scientists picketing off the antarctic coast , at this outrageous attempt to speed up th nightmare of manmade global warming ….Well we don’t want him coming here do we ? :)


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    Crakar24

    Raven in 120,

    If thats the T party core values then consider me a member, by the way which politician do you think said those quotes?

    re Tax:

    “One thing is clear: The Founding Fathers never intended a nation where citizens would pay nearly half of everything they earn to the government.”

    In regards to the ice bergs, is one tug boat going to be enough?


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    Raven

    Yep Crakar24
    The exact quote I’m not sure , its always the last person you think, however it sounds a lot like obamas pitch for the republican vote before he was elected , bet they didn’t see that one coming !

    Update Wayne Swan our economic guru ….

    It’s getting serious , they may have to perform an emergency tracheotomy on Wayne swan , with the sheer amount of egg on his face and no sign of it abating any time soon . This may be the last chance to get the old economy breathing !  :)


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    Crakar24

    From the Bolt blog about Gore i found this little gem

    http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/news/releases/archive/2011/ocean-warming

    Now i have not read the studies as yet but this story would warm the cockles of every believers heart, it has everything you could think of.

    It has empirical evidence proving the models wrong but just when you think it is all over red rover for our guys we have another model that saves the day (and the heroes triumph over evil once again).

    The two explanaitions as to why Trenberths missing heat is in fact not missing are as follows:

    1, The first line of defence, this NEW model shows that during a -ve PDO the oceans give off heat to space……to space i tells ya which is rather convenient because we cant measure heat in space but we can in the atmosphere and we know the heat is not there….ergo it must be in space.

    2, The fall back position in case we get overrun, The NEWER model (i assume that is what it is called) claims to show how heat can temporarily penetrate BELOW the 700 meter barrier and be swept away by the AMO, assumidly it will reappear in its own time and place of choosing

    So in the end there is no travesty just stupidity like Luis Hissink said.

    Enjoy this wonderful piece of propaganda


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    Crakar24

    Raven in 124,

    Ron Paul said them all. I am no expert on Oz politics let alone in the US but from where i sit he is their last and only hope, they will do all in their power to rig/smear/ignore Paul in the election to get the “right guy” but if they fail and Paul gets the job they will knock him off anyway.

    Which is bad for us in Oz of course, you see the reason why we have GFC’s is because we let the money junkies knock down all the fire walls between countries so they could make even more money faster. When their greed crashes one country the fire quickly spreads to another and another and the US is teetering on the brink, if it falls we all go down.

    The US need someone who puts the US and its people first not the fraudsters on wall street, the MIC or the only democracy in the middle east. When they do take back their country and someone like Paul gets elected things may start to turn around but intil then we will remain in a financial, moral and ethical death spiral.


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    Crakar24

    OT again,

    Warning, you may need to reach for the bucket whilst reading.

    My partner, Sophie Allouache, and I are delighted to be expecting a child in December.

    Like any expecting parents, the prospect of welcoming this child into our lives fills us both with joy.

    We are extremely grateful to our IVF service and staff, and to our donor, for giving us the opportunity to raise a child together.

    The biological father of the child is known to us, and will be known to the child. We have agreed with him that his name will not be released to the media.

    We have chosen to make this statement about Sophie’s pregnancy as we understand there may be public interest due to my position. This is, however, a very private matter and we ask for our privacy to be respected during this time.

    I always knew Penny wore the pants.


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    Crakar24

    Some research into Henry Ford and his newspaper,The Dearborn Independent may be useful to you.


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    Crakar24

    Kevin in 128,

    Thanks I have read some of his writings a long time ago and thanks for rekindling my interest, i assume you meant his attitudes towards the FED would be useful and not his attitude to the only democracy in the middle east.

    Cheers

    Crakar


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    Crakar @ 129

    They ran his car off the road for a reason. It was his wife who begged him to stop writing.Freedom of speech doesn’t exist when you mention the only democracy in the middle east. Henry was taking an interest in the wrong protocols.


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    Paul Johnson

    Go into the woods and exhale and what the environment around you inhale. By the way Gore!! Hadn’t you better get rid of your extravagant 5-10 multi thousand square foot homes and practice what you preach? Yea right!! hypocrite…


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    David Davidovics

    Not sure if this has been posted yet, but Anthony Watts has hosted links of Al Gore’s presentation complete with profanity.

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/08/09/gore-did-not-know-as-the-others-did-that-the-conference-was-being-streamed/

    It appears original credit goes to Aspen Journalism.

    http://aspenjournalism.org/2011/08/05/al-gore-calls-bullshit-on-climate-propaganda/

    Again, apologies if this has already been posted.


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    Raven

    If this is already posted apologies in advance ….
    Damian usually nails them. Anyway head over to the age and support or post a question , as apparently only skeptics run the Internet !

    http://oursay.org/the-sunday-age

    It seems to be going quite well … Hehehe :)


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    Blimey

    Nova says:

    He’s uses all his science degrees to come back with an erudite answer to his critics:

    Gore says:

    It may be volcanoes.’ Bullshit! ‘It may be sun spots.’ Bullshit! ‘It’s not getting warmer.’ Bullshit!” Gore exclaimed.

    So Nova, are you saying it is volcanoes, or it is sunspots, or that it isn’t warming?

    Is that your “scientific” view? If so, please provide peer-reviewed science to support your position because I think it’s bullshit.


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    Blimey – I’d like to help, but only you and Al know what “it” is. It’s a little hard to assess the scientific meaning of: “It may be volcanoes”.

    What might be volcanoes?

    If you mean the pointy hills that smoke, I’m pretty sure they exist, though I haven’t seen one.

    As far as bullshit goes, I don’t think you’ll find it in a volcano.


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    BobC

    Joanne (@135):

    Pretty much everything Blimey posts is bullshit. Take a look at his recent infantile efforts in “Greens reveal their aims” track.


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    Roy Hogue

    Whatever else Al Gore did with his little tirade he got himself a lot of attention by people and in places where he certainly shouldn’t have gotten all that attention. Don’t be surprised if you see him with a bag over his head when he goes out in public lest he be recognized.


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    Raven

    Would anyone care to predict the theme of the ages reply to this question ?

    The very point of Australia’s carbon tax is to reduce global warming. How much will reducing 5% of Australia’s around 1.5% contribution of global CO2 emissions reduce global temperature by? If the amount is negligible (which it is), then given the present economic turbulence, what is the probability of Australia’s carbon tax inspiring major emitters like USA, China and India to make ACTUAL cuts to their C02 emissions (as opposed to mere carbon intensity) and economic growth?

    I will give a $150 retail gift voucher for the best journalistic attempt at mimicking the ages answer .
    Second place $ 75 retail gift voucher .
    Jo can judge them if it’s ok with her .
    Closing date is at end of the vote for questions
    http://oursay.org/the-sunday-age


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    Raven

    It’s ok Roy , the FBI have special glasses for bag penetration :)


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    Crakar24

    Is it still optional to have a bag when you get hanged?


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  • #

    Climate Change!

    “Have scientists discovred how to create downpours in the desert”?

    MAIL Online, science and tech, 30 Jan 2011

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1343470/have-scientists-discovered-create-downpour-desert.html

    “Fifty rainstorms were created last year in the states eastern Al Ain region using technology designed to control the weather….”


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    Blimey

    Joanne Nova says:

    Blimey – I’d like to help. As far as bullshit goes, I don’t think you’ll find it in a volcano.

    Thanks for your greatest contribution to climate science Jo.


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    Twodogs

    Scepticism about global warming is about far more than about the science. To not be sceptical is to accept not only that there is a recent warming trend, but that it is going to warm at a new, yet to be realised higher trend; that it will be caused almost exclusively by human intervention; and that the only solution is to tax us into oblivion. So how’s it looking?

    Recent warming trend backed by emperical evidence. Tick, but don’t unsquint your eyes too much so you notice distinctive periods of cooling, and don’t look any further lest you notice earlier warming unexplained by human non-intervention.

    A new, higher warming trend. Hockey stick falsified and found fraudulent. Not a good start. CO2 causing more water vapour in atmosphere and positive feedback. More rain. Oops! Now we have a negative feedback, but that’s okay because we have computer models proving otherwise. Real world data does not match models. Oops! It’s only 10 years. Make that 11. Any moment now… You know what they say about statistics. I sometimes model my future earnings, and it’s amazing how much I will be earning in 20 years! Optimistic assumptions = optimistic results, and vica-verca

    That’s okay. Whether it’s warming by any significant degree or not, it’s most certainly all caused by us. Okay, it’s only 3% of all CO2 production, but Gaia wisely discriminates such that only our CO2 makes a difference. Temperature leads CO2, you say? Oops. Maybe CO2 is pushing?

    No matter, a tax with no upper limit on just about everything will fix it. It will change human behaviour, but only for the 49% that will not be bribed to get it over the line, and not for anyone in need of a democracy to stop such a crushing tax. But hey, temperatures didn’t rise any more than the known trend, so it must be our tax that did it even though it could only ever have a negligible effect on a negligible population.

    As luck would have it, we-who-know-what’s-best-for-everyone-else have come into control of all the money, rules, behaviour and opinions. Who would have thought?!


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    Don Gaddes

    For a complete ‘debunking’ of ‘El Nino’ and AGW,and an insight into the importance of volcanic activity in climate prognoses, I recommend the book ‘Tomorrow’s Weather’ (Alex S Gaddes 1990.)
    This publication includes an astute analysis of Solar and Astronomical influences on climate/weather,and provides an extremely accurate forecast ‘mechanism’ for ‘dry cycles’(droughts.) The current drought devastating Somalia is a one year ‘dry cycle’ which will reach Australia early 2012. An updated version of this book,(with forecasts to 2055) is available as a free pdf from dongaddes93@gmail.com


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    papertiger

    At #142

    Thanks for finding that Kevin. I’ve been rolling the idea around at Lubos Motl’s blog ever since he posted Jasper Kirkby: The CLOUD experiment at CERN.

    I’ve been telling the boss that this is the practical ap for their particle accelerators.
    He countered that it probably wouldn’t make much difference as a weather effect, but that he was open minded and would like for someone to prove him wrong.

    Now here it is in the flesh. A real world experiment based on Kirkby’s experiment and Svensmark’s theory.

    That should have been written up at WUWT long before thorium cars or cold fusion.

    MAN! Ear to ear smiles here pal. Thank you.


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    Bush bunny

    I wonder if Al Gore invested in Evergreen solar as they have just gone
    bust. They moved from the US to China (losing 800 jobs) to cut costs
    but that didn’t save them either. Seems they may have to return at least half of the subsidies their State Government gave them ($58 million) So much for solar panels – not so hot as they thought. Also a geo thermal exploration plant is closing in Australia too.

    This government would do well to look what is going on overseas before they throw good money after bad. Are they that stupid?

    Penny Wong said on election nite in the tally room after being asked if abandoning the ETS was the reason for labor’s poor performance, that
    she said ‘No – the planet is cooling, I wish I could get her saying that for our green friends to muddle over.


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