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	<title>Comments on: The climate bully crashes</title>
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	<description>Tackling tribal groupthink</description>
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		<title>By: Tel</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2010/05/the-climate-bully-crashes/#comment-49862</link>
		<dc:creator>Tel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 May 2010 22:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannenova.com.au/?p=8383#comment-49862</guid>
		<description>The newspapers can smell a victim, and the polls continue the trend:

http://www.news.com.au/national/neilsen-poll-predicts-labor-election-defeat/story-e6frfkvr-1225864320294

&lt;blockquote&gt;
The loss of personal support is the most dramatic for a prime minister in a decade and marks the first time Mr Rudd has had a disapproval rating higher than his approval rating.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It will be very difficult for Rudd to climb back from here. Presuming the Liberals don&#039;t do anything outrageously stupid, they will get back in on the dissatisfaction vote  alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The newspapers can smell a victim, and the polls continue the trend:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.news.com.au/national/neilsen-poll-predicts-labor-election-defeat/story-e6frfkvr-1225864320294" rel="nofollow">http://www.news.com.au/national/neilsen-poll-predicts-labor-election-defeat/story-e6frfkvr-1225864320294</a></p>
<blockquote><p>
The loss of personal support is the most dramatic for a prime minister in a decade and marks the first time Mr Rudd has had a disapproval rating higher than his approval rating.
</p></blockquote>
<p>It will be very difficult for Rudd to climb back from here. Presuming the Liberals don&#8217;t do anything outrageously stupid, they will get back in on the dissatisfaction vote  alone.</p>
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		<title>By: Olaf Koenders</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2010/05/the-climate-bully-crashes/#comment-49522</link>
		<dc:creator>Olaf Koenders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 May 2010 09:24:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannenova.com.au/?p=8383#comment-49522</guid>
		<description>The main problem we face is that people are willing to be lazy and give up knowledge for trust, allowing all manner of wrongdoings by governments worldwide.  We also have such short memories of things we learned in the past that still haven&#039;t changed and are well established by science.

It&#039;s therefore easy to see that the vast majority of the public aren&#039;t autodidacts (look it up), and have no idea what CO2 is (some equate it to coal dust that killed many miners in England), that the vast forests of the Carboniferous Period had some 20 times the CO2 we have now (creating our coal and oil reserves from atmospheric carbon) , the Jurassic some 10 times when delicate aragonite corals evolved, when oceans weren&#039;t acidic as they constantly brush against alkaline shores, without a tipping point or runaway greenhouse, ever.

Not forgetting that the vast majority of the public know nothing of the Roman Warm Period (2000 years ago - deleted from Wiki by climate-criminal William Connolly - read:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/19/wikibullies-at-work-the-national-post-exposes-broad-trust-issues-over-wikipedia-climate-information

The Mediaeval Warm Period (1000 years ago) when the Vikings colonised Greenland, their graves are in permafrost now, and the Little Ice Age (1500AD - 1800AD), which killed millions due to famine and plague.  Since then the planet&#039;s been warming due to solar activity.  Be glad it&#039;s warm, as grain doesn&#039;t grow in ice and cattle don&#039;t like it much either.

Notably, we wouldn&#039;t have coral and nautilus fossils from the Jurassic Period if the oceans were acidic enough to dissolve their shells.  The oceans currently have a PH level of between 7.9 and 8.3, which is alkaline.  PH 7 is neutral.

It&#039;s a shame that the uninformed try to sequester CO2 as it&#039;s actually airborne fertiliser.  Many farmers pump it into their greenhouses to max plant growth, which is also vastly unknown by the fearmongers.

I&#039;m all for cleaning up our act and removing particulates and other ACTUAL pollutants, but leave CO2 alone as it feeds our plants, animals and eventually us via the carbon cycle.

Here&#039;s an eye-opener:  Global anthropogenic CO2 output is some 30 billion tons per year (nature&#039;s output is some 600 billion tons).  Using the IPCC&#039;s own erroneous and highly bloated figures, we would need to cut 1 trillion tons of CO2 emissions to stop 1C of warming.  That means no cars, trains, planes, industry or campfires, for 30 YEARS!!  Using the correct figures would have your generations living this way for 200 years.  In the meantime the climate does what it likes using solar activity, orbital wobbles (Milankovich Cycles) and Pacific Decadal Oscillations.  Completely ignoring the human element.  Humans can&#039;t even control a recent lava flow in Hawaii let alone a planet full of climate due to external forces.

Think about it.  You exhale around 40,000ppm CO2 every breath, far larger than the 388ppm in our atmosphere at present.  If CO2 was deemed a pollutant, CPR would be banned and you could be jailed for attempted murder instead of saving a life.  I&#039;m no scientist, and you don&#039;t need to be to understand simple history and common sense.

The vast majority also don&#039;t know that global atmospheric CO2 is just about 3% of the atmosphere, and man&#039;s contribution is just 3% of THAT.  It&#039;s like a grain of sugar in the middle of the dinner table.  CO2 is a trace gas which has a logarithmic function in the atmosphere and oceans, whereby the first 20ppm works well as a greenhouse gas, but doubling rapidly declines this effect.  We&#039;re almost at saturation level now where doubling CO2 will have little if any effect:

http://climatefacts.net/article-45-2009-co2-is-it-really-a-demon

The world&#039;s population is largely uneducated and prone to fads (which governments know all too well), Victoria IS a nanny-state (THANK YOU Mark Webber!) and I&#039;ll simply refuse to pay any extra on my energy bills due to ANY carbon tax, where they&#039;ll be forced to take me to court to explain why.

I can&#039;t wait..!

Thanks for reading and thanks for the great site, Jo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The main problem we face is that people are willing to be lazy and give up knowledge for trust, allowing all manner of wrongdoings by governments worldwide.  We also have such short memories of things we learned in the past that still haven&#8217;t changed and are well established by science.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s therefore easy to see that the vast majority of the public aren&#8217;t autodidacts (look it up), and have no idea what CO2 is (some equate it to coal dust that killed many miners in England), that the vast forests of the Carboniferous Period had some 20 times the CO2 we have now (creating our coal and oil reserves from atmospheric carbon) , the Jurassic some 10 times when delicate aragonite corals evolved, when oceans weren&#8217;t acidic as they constantly brush against alkaline shores, without a tipping point or runaway greenhouse, ever.</p>
<p>Not forgetting that the vast majority of the public know nothing of the Roman Warm Period (2000 years ago &#8211; deleted from Wiki by climate-criminal William Connolly &#8211; read:</p>
<p><a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/19/wikibullies-at-work-the-national-post-exposes-broad-trust-issues-over-wikipedia-climate-information" rel="nofollow">http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/19/wikibullies-at-work-the-national-post-exposes-broad-trust-issues-over-wikipedia-climate-information</a></p>
<p>The Mediaeval Warm Period (1000 years ago) when the Vikings colonised Greenland, their graves are in permafrost now, and the Little Ice Age (1500AD &#8211; 1800AD), which killed millions due to famine and plague.  Since then the planet&#8217;s been warming due to solar activity.  Be glad it&#8217;s warm, as grain doesn&#8217;t grow in ice and cattle don&#8217;t like it much either.</p>
<p>Notably, we wouldn&#8217;t have coral and nautilus fossils from the Jurassic Period if the oceans were acidic enough to dissolve their shells.  The oceans currently have a PH level of between 7.9 and 8.3, which is alkaline.  PH 7 is neutral.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a shame that the uninformed try to sequester CO2 as it&#8217;s actually airborne fertiliser.  Many farmers pump it into their greenhouses to max plant growth, which is also vastly unknown by the fearmongers.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for cleaning up our act and removing particulates and other ACTUAL pollutants, but leave CO2 alone as it feeds our plants, animals and eventually us via the carbon cycle.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s an eye-opener:  Global anthropogenic CO2 output is some 30 billion tons per year (nature&#8217;s output is some 600 billion tons).  Using the IPCC&#8217;s own erroneous and highly bloated figures, we would need to cut 1 trillion tons of CO2 emissions to stop 1C of warming.  That means no cars, trains, planes, industry or campfires, for 30 YEARS!!  Using the correct figures would have your generations living this way for 200 years.  In the meantime the climate does what it likes using solar activity, orbital wobbles (Milankovich Cycles) and Pacific Decadal Oscillations.  Completely ignoring the human element.  Humans can&#8217;t even control a recent lava flow in Hawaii let alone a planet full of climate due to external forces.</p>
<p>Think about it.  You exhale around 40,000ppm CO2 every breath, far larger than the 388ppm in our atmosphere at present.  If CO2 was deemed a pollutant, CPR would be banned and you could be jailed for attempted murder instead of saving a life.  I&#8217;m no scientist, and you don&#8217;t need to be to understand simple history and common sense.</p>
<p>The vast majority also don&#8217;t know that global atmospheric CO2 is just about 3% of the atmosphere, and man&#8217;s contribution is just 3% of THAT.  It&#8217;s like a grain of sugar in the middle of the dinner table.  CO2 is a trace gas which has a logarithmic function in the atmosphere and oceans, whereby the first 20ppm works well as a greenhouse gas, but doubling rapidly declines this effect.  We&#8217;re almost at saturation level now where doubling CO2 will have little if any effect:</p>
<p><a href="http://climatefacts.net/article-45-2009-co2-is-it-really-a-demon" rel="nofollow">http://climatefacts.net/article-45-2009-co2-is-it-really-a-demon</a></p>
<p>The world&#8217;s population is largely uneducated and prone to fads (which governments know all too well), Victoria IS a nanny-state (THANK YOU Mark Webber!) and I&#8217;ll simply refuse to pay any extra on my energy bills due to ANY carbon tax, where they&#8217;ll be forced to take me to court to explain why.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t wait..!</p>
<p>Thanks for reading and thanks for the great site, Jo.</p>
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		<title>By: Bernd Felsche</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2010/05/the-climate-bully-crashes/#comment-49434</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernd Felsche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 May 2010 01:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannenova.com.au/?p=8383#comment-49434</guid>
		<description>Tel @48:

I&#039;ve lived in Australia since 1968. The EU situation is a total cockup due to ideology over-ruling common sense. The ideology embraced via the Lisbon Treaty of one Europe being good for all with national governments essentially yielding sovreignty to a bunch of mindless (but well-meaning) bureaucrats.

The least-damage solution proposed is the one (IIRC) by Vaclav Klaus: Don&#039;t lend Greece any more money but pay off (a proportion of) the debts directly. Expel Greece from the Euro- and trade-zone. Recover payouts through export duties on goods and services to Greece. It also leaves Greece to exercise its sovereign right and obligation to legislate and govern for itself.

Do that ASAP and send a clear message to the other teetering economies of Europe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tel @48:</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve lived in Australia since 1968. The EU situation is a total cockup due to ideology over-ruling common sense. The ideology embraced via the Lisbon Treaty of one Europe being good for all with national governments essentially yielding sovreignty to a bunch of mindless (but well-meaning) bureaucrats.</p>
<p>The least-damage solution proposed is the one (IIRC) by Vaclav Klaus: Don&#8217;t lend Greece any more money but pay off (a proportion of) the debts directly. Expel Greece from the Euro- and trade-zone. Recover payouts through export duties on goods and services to Greece. It also leaves Greece to exercise its sovereign right and obligation to legislate and govern for itself.</p>
<p>Do that ASAP and send a clear message to the other teetering economies of Europe.</p>
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		<title>By: Tel</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2010/05/the-climate-bully-crashes/#comment-49408</link>
		<dc:creator>Tel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 May 2010 22:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Bernd Felsche, you have a German-sounding name so I&#039;d be very interested to know what you think about the situation with Greece. Why is the German government even considering paying any money? How do you expect it to end?

Sorry if this has nothing to do with climate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bernd Felsche, you have a German-sounding name so I&#8217;d be very interested to know what you think about the situation with Greece. Why is the German government even considering paying any money? How do you expect it to end?</p>
<p>Sorry if this has nothing to do with climate.</p>
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		<title>By: average joe</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2010/05/the-climate-bully-crashes/#comment-49351</link>
		<dc:creator>average joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 May 2010 16:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Phillip Bratby:
May 5th, 2010 at 5:19 am

&quot;I wonder when (if) he will step forward and become a hero..&quot;

I think that he/she will have to wait until the majority laughs somewhat shamefull whenever &quot;Global Warming&quot; is mentioned. Next february, perhaps? 

By the way, an interesting link posted by Enneagram over at wattsupwiththat;

http://www.scribd.com/doc/28018819/Greenhouse-Niels-Bohr</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phillip Bratby:<br />
May 5th, 2010 at 5:19 am</p>
<p>&#8220;I wonder when (if) he will step forward and become a hero..&#8221;</p>
<p>I think that he/she will have to wait until the majority laughs somewhat shamefull whenever &#8220;Global Warming&#8221; is mentioned. Next february, perhaps? </p>
<p>By the way, an interesting link posted by Enneagram over at wattsupwiththat;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/28018819/Greenhouse-Niels-Bohr" rel="nofollow">http://www.scribd.com/doc/28018819/Greenhouse-Niels-Bohr</a></p>
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		<title>By: Brett_McS</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2010/05/the-climate-bully-crashes/#comment-49331</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett_McS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 May 2010 13:30:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Rudd&#039;s dropped because he&#039;s shown himself to be dithering and ineffectual.  And this is even before the inevitable back down on the disastrous miner&#039;s &#039;super tax&#039;.  It&#039;s not going to get any better, and Abbott is going to keep the pressure on, like a true fighter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rudd&#8217;s dropped because he&#8217;s shown himself to be dithering and ineffectual.  And this is even before the inevitable back down on the disastrous miner&#8217;s &#8216;super tax&#8217;.  It&#8217;s not going to get any better, and Abbott is going to keep the pressure on, like a true fighter.</p>
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		<title>By: Baa Humbug</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2010/05/the-climate-bully-crashes/#comment-49302</link>
		<dc:creator>Baa Humbug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 May 2010 10:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Bernd Felsche: #44
May 6th, 2010 at 7:42 pm
Yes Bernd, I saw that at WUWT. Anthony said the first thing that came to his mind was &quot;The Edge of Wetness&quot;.
I said (flippantly) the first thing that came to my mind was &quot;Wet Dreams&quot; Sherwoods that is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bernd Felsche: #44<br />
May 6th, 2010 at 7:42 pm<br />
Yes Bernd, I saw that at WUWT. Anthony said the first thing that came to his mind was &#8220;The Edge of Wetness&#8221;.<br />
I said (flippantly) the first thing that came to my mind was &#8220;Wet Dreams&#8221; Sherwoods that is.</p>
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		<title>By: Bernd Felsche</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2010/05/the-climate-bully-crashes/#comment-49296</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernd Felsche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 May 2010 09:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Baa @40:

Maybe somebody in the ALP actually believes that &lt;em&gt;&quot;the science is settled&quot;&lt;/em&gt;.

Meanwhile Sherwood of UNFI and others manage to publish a paper that is so bad that it&#039;s not even wrong. See &lt;a href=&quot;http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/05/04/agw-to-reach-the-edge-of-wetness/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;WUWT&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baa @40:</p>
<p>Maybe somebody in the ALP actually believes that <em>&#8220;the science is settled&#8221;</em>.</p>
<p>Meanwhile Sherwood of UNFI and others manage to publish a paper that is so bad that it&#8217;s not even wrong. See <a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/05/04/agw-to-reach-the-edge-of-wetness/" rel="nofollow">WUWT</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronnell</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2010/05/the-climate-bully-crashes/#comment-49256</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 May 2010 03:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Further information on this &quot;Simon Birmingham&quot;.......

http://www.senatorbirmingham.com.au/AboutSimon/Biography/tabid/58/Default.aspx

You will notice that his qualifications are Master of BUSINESS administration.

Clearly, he &amp; the Liberal Party consider that this global warming HOAX is all about Business aka MONEY, AND NOTHING TO DO WITH science!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Further information on this &#8220;Simon Birmingham&#8221;&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.senatorbirmingham.com.au/AboutSimon/Biography/tabid/58/Default.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.senatorbirmingham.com.au/AboutSimon/Biography/tabid/58/Default.aspx</a></p>
<p>You will notice that his qualifications are Master of BUSINESS administration.</p>
<p>Clearly, he &amp; the Liberal Party consider that this global warming HOAX is all about Business aka MONEY, AND NOTHING TO DO WITH science!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Ronnell</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2010/05/the-climate-bully-crashes/#comment-49255</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 May 2010 03:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>We recently received the following from the Liberal Party regarding Global Warming......
====================================
Thank you for your email(s) regarding the Rudd Government’s proposed emissions trading scheme, or so-called Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme (CPRS), and please accept my apology for both the delay in responding to you and for the standardised nature of this response, due to the unprecedented volume of correspondence generated by the ETS debate.

While debate has been more focused on the matter of Australia’s policy response to the stated threats of climate change than the veracity or otherwise of the science, I nevertheless appreciate you bringing your views to my attention.

&lt;strong&gt;I don’t believe that the IPCC errors and apologies that have come to my attention totally change the overall scientific case surrounding climate change, particularly where they relate to claimed impacts as opposed to underlying causes of climate change. &lt;/strong&gt; That is not to say that there is not valid debate, but simply that I believe the overall balance still favours a precautionary approach.

The Coalition is committed to responsible action on climate change, with Leader Tony Abbott having announced a direct action policy that will allow Australia to reduce emissions without the imposition of the Rudd Government’s expensive, new tax-churning regime and its financial burden on Australian businesses and households.

While our policy measures will reduce Australia’s carbon footprint, I also hope that those who question or reject out-of-hand the notion of human-induced warming will nevertheless be supportive of direct actions with demonstrable ‘win win’ benefits, for example to soil quality and agricultural production.

I hope this information is of some assistance to you, and thank you again for taking the time to contact me.

Yours sincerely,
Simon Birmingham
Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Climate Action
===========================================

I EMAILED HIM BACK TO TELL HIM THAT HE &amp; HIS PARTY HAD LOST OUR SUPPORT AS THEY ARE STILL PROMOTING THIS GLOBAL WARMING FRAUD!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="background-color:#FFF0F5 !important"><p>We recently received the following from the Liberal Party regarding Global Warming&#8230;&#8230;<br />
====================================<br />
Thank you for your email(s) regarding the Rudd Government’s proposed emissions trading scheme, or so-called Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme (CPRS), and please accept my apology for both the delay in responding to you and for the standardised nature of this response, due to the unprecedented volume of correspondence generated by the ETS debate.</p>
<p>While debate has been more focused on the matter of Australia’s policy response to the stated threats of climate change than the veracity or otherwise of the science, I nevertheless appreciate you bringing your views to my attention.</p>
<p><strong>I don’t believe that the IPCC errors and apologies that have come to my attention totally change the overall scientific case surrounding climate change, particularly where they relate to claimed impacts as opposed to underlying causes of climate change. </strong> That is not to say that there is not valid debate, but simply that I believe the overall balance still favours a precautionary approach.</p>
<p>The Coalition is committed to responsible action on climate change, with Leader Tony Abbott having announced a direct action policy that will allow Australia to reduce emissions without the imposition of the Rudd Government’s expensive, new tax-churning regime and its financial burden on Australian businesses and households.</p>
<p>While our policy measures will reduce Australia’s carbon footprint, I also hope that those who question or reject out-of-hand the notion of human-induced warming will nevertheless be supportive of direct actions with demonstrable ‘win win’ benefits, for example to soil quality and agricultural production.</p>
<p>I hope this information is of some assistance to you, and thank you again for taking the time to contact me.</p>
<p>Yours sincerely,<br />
Simon Birmingham<br />
Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Climate Action<br />
===========================================</p>
<p>I EMAILED HIM BACK TO TELL HIM THAT HE &amp; HIS PARTY HAD LOST OUR SUPPORT AS THEY ARE STILL PROMOTING THIS GLOBAL WARMING FRAUD!</p>
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