Comments on: The global gravy train takes a major political hit http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/the-global-gravy-train-takes-a-major-political-hit/ Tackling tribal groupthink Sat, 11 Feb 2012 06:43:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: TWAWKI » Giving the earth and humanity the benefit of the doubt http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/the-global-gravy-train-takes-a-major-political-hit/#comment-40596 TWAWKI » Giving the earth and humanity the benefit of the doubt Fri, 02 Apr 2010 12:49:39 +0000 http://joannenova.com.au/?p=4852#comment-40596 [...] one, how many of the homeless and poor are unnecessarily dying from the cold. And all because of Government’s and green groups gravy train that ignores their plight focusing instead on their rabid push of global warming [...] [...] one, how many of the homeless and poor are unnecessarily dying from the cold. And all because of Government’s and green groups gravy train that ignores their plight focusing instead on their rabid push of global warming [...]

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]]> By: The American Spectator : AmSpecBlog : Down, But Not Yet Out, Down Under http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/the-global-gravy-train-takes-a-major-political-hit/#comment-24647 The American Spectator : AmSpecBlog : Down, But Not Yet Out, Down Under Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:42:07 +0000 http://joannenova.com.au/?p=4852#comment-24647 [...] Australia has served as an advance battleground for imposition of the cap-and-trade power grab, where Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's government now hinges on a possible second vote on the scheme, held up after a party looking to find bipartisanship experienced revolt and stiffened its spine. [...] [...] Australia has served as an advance battleground for imposition of the cap-and-trade power grab, where Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's government now hinges on a possible second vote on the scheme, held up after a party looking to find bipartisanship experienced revolt and stiffened its spine. [...]

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]]> By: Don Griffiths http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/the-global-gravy-train-takes-a-major-political-hit/#comment-22299 Don Griffiths Tue, 29 Dec 2009 14:04:23 +0000 http://joannenova.com.au/?p=4852#comment-22299 I do take out flood insurance on a couple of business locations along the Mississippi River that are potentially susceptible to loss year-to-year, although I have other facilities that are also on the river but not in the flood plain. Such are the vagaries of weather from one year to the next and how we are treated geographically regarding the weather. Imagining any kind of global policy that managed vagaries with skill---well, one cannot imagine. Frankly, if there are real long-term climate changes in our future regardless of their origins, the insurance industry will create coverages that will offer those in risk financial coverage while making the insurance companies very good money---most of the time. I do take out flood insurance on a couple of business locations along the Mississippi River that are potentially susceptible to loss year-to-year, although I have other facilities that are also on the river but not in the flood plain. Such are the vagaries of weather from one year to the next and how we are treated geographically regarding the weather. Imagining any kind of global policy that managed vagaries with skill—well, one cannot imagine. Frankly, if there are real long-term climate changes in our future regardless of their origins, the insurance industry will create coverages that will offer those in risk financial coverage while making the insurance companies very good money—most of the time.

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]]> By: MadJak http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/the-global-gravy-train-takes-a-major-political-hit/#comment-22257 MadJak Tue, 29 Dec 2009 06:35:29 +0000 http://joannenova.com.au/?p=4852#comment-22257 Arie, I can see some major problems with the "Insurance policy" argument. Would you take an insurance policy out on your house to cover you for a supernova event with the sun? What if the premium was $1200 per annum? Arie,

I can see some major problems with the “Insurance policy” argument. Would you take an insurance policy out on your house to cover you for a supernova event with the sun? What if the premium was $1200 per annum?

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]]> By: Arie Brand http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/the-global-gravy-train-takes-a-major-political-hit/#comment-19461 Arie Brand Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:14:03 +0000 http://joannenova.com.au/?p=4852#comment-19461 They can't predict the weather but they can predict that summer will be from about December to April (at least in the Southern hemisphere). That is the difference between weather and climate. In studying climate one works with long term regularities - not day to day variability. I, for one, am convinced that the science is solid enough to take out an 'insurance policy'. They can’t predict the weather but they can predict that summer will be from about December to April (at least in the Southern hemisphere). That is the difference between weather and climate.

In studying climate one works with long term regularities – not day to day variability.

I, for one, am convinced that the science is solid enough to take out an ‘insurance policy’.

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]]> By: DonGriffiths http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/the-global-gravy-train-takes-a-major-political-hit/#comment-19186 DonGriffiths Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:55:18 +0000 http://joannenova.com.au/?p=4852#comment-19186 Arie, just as soon as meteorologists can predict our weather 3-4 days out with complete certainty, I will believe we have begun to grasp the many complicated nuances affecting global climate. I find it amusing that we humans are so quick to claim accurate knowledge on a host of subjects, only to find that even without trickery and confounded purposes, our understanding continues to be refined and oftentimes greatly modified over time. Aside from all the rhetoric on the subject of whether greenhouse gases are a major source of climate change, the mere fact that the science is NOT absolute is reason enough to do a better job of garnering understanding before acting---hopefully without trickery and confounded purpose. To imagine that anything the size of the proposed changes should be anchored to the future direction of humanity without a much better grasp of the facts is unthinkable and absurd. Arie, just as soon as meteorologists can predict our weather 3-4 days out with complete certainty, I will believe we have begun to grasp the many complicated nuances affecting global climate. I find it amusing that we humans are so quick to claim accurate knowledge on a host of subjects, only to find that even without trickery and confounded purposes, our understanding continues to be refined and oftentimes greatly modified over time.

Aside from all the rhetoric on the subject of whether greenhouse gases are a major source of climate change, the mere fact that the science is NOT absolute is reason enough to do a better job of garnering understanding before acting—hopefully without trickery and confounded purpose. To imagine that anything the size of the proposed changes should be anchored to the future direction of humanity without a much better grasp of the facts is unthinkable and absurd.

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]]> By: Arie Brand http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/the-global-gravy-train-takes-a-major-political-hit/#comment-19140 Arie Brand Fri, 11 Dec 2009 11:14:54 +0000 http://joannenova.com.au/?p=4852#comment-19140 No, I don't know of any 'cabal' and I have always been surprised by sceptics' readiness to believe in it.If you think there is evidence of such collusion in the stolen emails (not to use that ridiculous term 'climategate') you should point it out to me. Madjak you insist on staying on the Mann-trail. I note that you ignored my point about the existence of at least twelve similar graphs presented by different authors working with different proxies. The hooha about Mann was started by McIntyre and McKitrick and the former went on with setting up the blog ClimateAudit which has been Mann and hocckey stick obsessed. No, I don’t know of any ‘cabal’ and I have always been surprised by sceptics’ readiness to believe in it.If you think there is evidence of such collusion in the stolen emails (not to use that ridiculous term ‘climategate’) you should point it out to me.

Madjak you insist on staying on the Mann-trail. I note that you ignored my point about the existence of at least twelve similar graphs presented by different authors working with different proxies.

The hooha about Mann was started by McIntyre and McKitrick and the former went on with setting up the blog ClimateAudit which has been Mann and hocckey stick obsessed.

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]]> By: MadJak http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/the-global-gravy-train-takes-a-major-political-hit/#comment-19065 MadJak Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:21:28 +0000 http://joannenova.com.au/?p=4852#comment-19065 Arie, <blockquote>Oh, Mann’s hockey stick. It keeps bobbing up like King Charles’s head in the conversation of Mr.Dick (remember Dickens’ David Copperfield ?).</blockquote> Are we getting tired of hearing about it? Well I can't help you with that one. It is only suffice to say that I got tired of seeing it when it was the flagship evidence in the AGW propoganda campaign, so I can sympathize with you on that one. The political reality is that we're all going to be hearing much more about the Hockey stick. <blockquote>I believe that we are dealing here with a definite PR tactic, that, in this case, was initiated on the Canadian blog ClimateAudit</blockquote> And your evidence for this is? Please enlighten me? <blockquote>The tactic is: identify a cause with one particular person and demonise him, up hill and down dale, as much as you can (it is also an established technique in psychological warfare – it was tried on Churchill, without much success).</blockquote> It's not just one person. Climategate is showing collusion across many people within the CRU. I am assuming you're talking about Phil Jones here. Leadership is about taking responsibility, remember? Or is that just an outmoded thought these days? Arie,

Oh, Mann’s hockey stick. It keeps bobbing up like King Charles’s head in the conversation of Mr.Dick (remember Dickens’ David Copperfield ?).

Are we getting tired of hearing about it? Well I can’t help you with that one. It is only suffice to say that I got tired of seeing it when it was the flagship evidence in the AGW propoganda campaign, so I can sympathize with you on that one.

The political reality is that we’re all going to be hearing much more about the Hockey stick.

I believe that we are dealing here with a definite PR tactic, that, in this case, was initiated on the Canadian blog ClimateAudit

And your evidence for this is? Please enlighten me?

The tactic is: identify a cause with one particular person and demonise him, up hill and down dale, as much as you can (it is also an established technique in psychological warfare – it was tried on Churchill, without much success).

It’s not just one person. Climategate is showing collusion across many people within the CRU. I am assuming you’re talking about Phil Jones here. Leadership is about taking responsibility, remember? Or is that just an outmoded thought these days?

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]]> By: Mark D. http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/the-global-gravy-train-takes-a-major-political-hit/#comment-19064 Mark D. Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:16:00 +0000 http://joannenova.com.au/?p=4852#comment-19064 <blockquote>Arie Brand Here is the analysis of the Union of Concerned Scientists:</blockquote> Wow there is a neutral site with absolutely no propaganda! I am sure I can trust anything they say....... <blockquote>Arie Brand I believe that we are dealing here with a definite PR tactic, that, in this case, was initiated on the Canadian blog ClimateAudit, and has been very successful. The tactic is: identify a cause with one particular person and demonise him, up hill and down dale, as much as you can (it is also an established technique in psychological warfare – it was tried on Churchill, without much success).</blockquote> By god do you wear polarized glasses all the time???? the warmies have mastered the demonizing. A bit of fair play? would that make you happier? Why don't you and your friends start by banning the term denial and all its variations from every pro warming site or blog. Then as a gesture of good faith I'll work on getting all the "cooler heads" to stop picking on poor Mr. Mann

Arie Brand
Here is the analysis of the Union of Concerned Scientists:

Wow there is a neutral site with absolutely no propaganda!

I am sure I can trust anything they say…….

Arie Brand
I believe that we are dealing here with a definite PR tactic, that, in this case, was initiated on the Canadian blog ClimateAudit, and has been very successful. The tactic is: identify a cause with one particular person and demonise him, up hill and down dale, as much as you can (it is also an established technique in psychological warfare – it was tried on Churchill, without much success).

By god do you wear polarized glasses all the time???? the warmies have mastered the demonizing. A bit of fair play? would that make you happier? Why don’t you and your friends start by banning the term denial and all its variations from every pro warming site or blog. Then as a gesture of good faith I’ll work on getting all the “cooler heads” to stop picking on poor Mr. Mann

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]]> By: co2isnotevil http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/the-global-gravy-train-takes-a-major-political-hit/#comment-19060 co2isnotevil Thu, 10 Dec 2009 23:44:37 +0000 http://joannenova.com.au/?p=4852#comment-19060 Come on Arie, you know this is about more than just hockey sticks. It's about an attitude, reflected by a group of researchers (the cabal), which has actively disrupted fair scientific discourse. It's about the tainted research produced by this cabal being the main reason why the world is on the verge of committing untold trillions of dollars to 'correct' the damage the cabal believes mankind has done. It's about the heavy handed suppression of thoughts, ideas, theories and data that are in conflict with the cabal's agenda. As far as I'm concerned, confirmation that this specific hockey stick is bogus, while interesting, is inconsequential. Besides, I already knew it was bogus. Come on Arie, you know this is about more than just hockey sticks. It’s about an attitude, reflected by a group of researchers (the cabal), which has actively disrupted fair scientific discourse. It’s about the tainted research produced by this cabal being the main reason why the world is on the verge of committing untold trillions of dollars to ‘correct’ the damage the cabal believes mankind has done. It’s about the heavy handed suppression of thoughts, ideas, theories and data that are in conflict with the cabal’s agenda. As far as I’m concerned, confirmation that this specific hockey stick is bogus, while interesting, is inconsequential. Besides, I already knew it was bogus.

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