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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Propaganda&#8221; Warrior exposed</title>
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	<description>Tackling tribal groupthink</description>
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		<title>By: kangen alkaline water machine</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/propaganda-warrior-exposed/#comment-50240</link>
		<dc:creator>kangen alkaline water machine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 12:00:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Kangen Water SHould exchange your water change your life. my office opportunity all who will take it free water for a month and in that time you will see your body quit suffering and moe back to what God intended for it to be.
thanks you for wiriting a good post i think i will subscribe to your rss feed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kangen Water SHould exchange your water change your life. my office opportunity all who will take it free water for a month and in that time you will see your body quit suffering and moe back to what God intended for it to be.<br />
thanks you for wiriting a good post i think i will subscribe to your rss feed.</p>
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		<title>By: Lizzette Avinger</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/propaganda-warrior-exposed/#comment-48777</link>
		<dc:creator>Lizzette Avinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 May 2010 16:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>this post was very useful</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this post was very useful</p>
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		<title>By: blouis79</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/propaganda-warrior-exposed/#comment-22348</link>
		<dc:creator>blouis79</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 21:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Straight from the horses mouth - one author of the global energy budget, Kevin Trenberth:
Kevin Trenberth wrote:
&gt; Hi Tom
&gt; How come you do not agree with a statement that says we are no where
&gt; close to knowing where energy is going or whether clouds are changing to
&gt; make the planet brighter. We are not close to balancing the energy
&gt; budget. The fact that we can not account for what is happening in the
&gt; climate system makes any consideration of geoengineering quite hopeless
&gt; as we will never be able to tell if it is successful or not! It is a
&gt; travesty!
&gt; Kevin
(discovered by Bob_FJ at http://chriscolose.wordpress.com/2008/12/10/an-update-to-kiehl-and-trenberth-1997/#comment-1450)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Straight from the horses mouth &#8211; one author of the global energy budget, Kevin Trenberth:<br />
Kevin Trenberth wrote:<br />
&gt; Hi Tom<br />
&gt; How come you do not agree with a statement that says we are no where<br />
&gt; close to knowing where energy is going or whether clouds are changing to<br />
&gt; make the planet brighter. We are not close to balancing the energy<br />
&gt; budget. The fact that we can not account for what is happening in the<br />
&gt; climate system makes any consideration of geoengineering quite hopeless<br />
&gt; as we will never be able to tell if it is successful or not! It is a<br />
&gt; travesty!<br />
&gt; Kevin<br />
(discovered by Bob_FJ at <a href="http://chriscolose.wordpress.com/2008/12/10/an-update-to-kiehl-and-trenberth-1997/#comment-1450" rel="nofollow">http://chriscolose.wordpress.com/2008/12/10/an-update-to-kiehl-and-trenberth-1997/#comment-1450</a>)</p>
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		<title>By: blouis79</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/propaganda-warrior-exposed/#comment-22287</link>
		<dc:creator>blouis79</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Rebuttal of Arthur Smith&#039;s refutation of Gerlich and Tscheuscher&#039;s greenhouse falsification:
Comments on the “Proof of the atmospheric greenhouse effect” by
Arthur P. Smith
Gerhard Kramm1, Ralph Dlugi2, and Michael Zelger2
http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0904/0904.2767.pdf

&quot;It is shown that [Smith&#039;s] attempt to refute the criticism of Gerlich and Tscheuschner (2007, 2009) on the so-called greenhouse effect is rather fruitless.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rebuttal of Arthur Smith&#8217;s refutation of Gerlich and Tscheuscher&#8217;s greenhouse falsification:<br />
Comments on the “Proof of the atmospheric greenhouse effect” by<br />
Arthur P. Smith<br />
Gerhard Kramm1, Ralph Dlugi2, and Michael Zelger2<br />
<a href="http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0904/0904.2767.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0904/0904.2767.pdf</a></p>
<p>&#8220;It is shown that [Smith's] attempt to refute the criticism of Gerlich and Tscheuschner (2007, 2009) on the so-called greenhouse effect is rather fruitless.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: BLouis79</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/propaganda-warrior-exposed/#comment-21946</link>
		<dc:creator>BLouis79</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 14:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Check this Greenpeace headline:
&quot;Copenhagen’s failure may leave plans for new nuclear power stations high and dry&quot;
http://weblog.greenpeace.org/nuclear-reaction/2009/12/nuclear_news_copenhagens_failu.html#more</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check this Greenpeace headline:<br />
&#8220;Copenhagen’s failure may leave plans for new nuclear power stations high and dry&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://weblog.greenpeace.org/nuclear-reaction/2009/12/nuclear_news_copenhagens_failu.html#more" rel="nofollow">http://weblog.greenpeace.org/nuclear-reaction/2009/12/nuclear_news_copenhagens_failu.html#more</a></p>
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		<title>By: BLouis79</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/propaganda-warrior-exposed/#comment-21837</link>
		<dc:creator>BLouis79</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 20:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannenova.com.au/?p=5423#comment-21837</guid>
		<description>A cousin got Al Gore&#039;s new  &quot;Our choice&quot; book for Xmas. The air is becoming clearer. Dr Linda Selvey, Recently appointed (Nov 2009) CEO of Greenpeace Asia Pacific is an Al Gore disciple. http://www.greenpeace.org/australia/resources/reports/general/new-ceo-dr-linda-selvey-bio

Gore&#039;s researcher-written tome is long on spin and short on balance. The anti-denier words loom large. The list of consulted scientists goes for pages. By implication, the words are objective and reflect the scientific consensus. Convenient that there have been no new nuclear power plants for may years and the expertise to build them is limited. Convenient that nuclear happens to be a softly mentioned option. Convenient that economists think we need to charge for the perceived negative externalities of carbon. Convenient that any talk of negative externalities of nuclear are missing from the book. Convenient that Gore plays down the threat of nuclear weapon proliferation by countries with nuclear energy capacity. Curious that he talks of a well organised propaganda machine to discredit global warming by big oil.

So, in what appears on the surface a masterful execution corporate strategy, it looks like pro-nuclear interests have captured key members of the IPCC, climate science, and big science publishers as well as the environmental movement. A small blip in global temperature is spun as the end of civilization as we know it. We are destroying the earth for our children. Carbon is the enemy. We must reduce it by 40% urgently.  We must raise the cost of carbon. We must create an international anti-carbon fund. We must pledge billions of dollars to developing nations. We must invest in clean renewable energy sources. We must do more research.

But there is only one &quot;clean&quot; energy source that can deliver &quot;clean&quot; energy in large amounts soon - nuclear. (See Prof Barry Brooks on http://bravenewclimate.com/ for example.)

So the environmental movement has been captured to push the world towards using a megabillion dollar international anti-carbon fund to pay for nuclear power stations in developing countries. Brilliant!

Wake up world, before we really ruin the earth with nuclear waste or armageddon. (Those who haven&#039;t seen it need to see the movie &quot;The Corporation&quot;  http://www.thecorporation.com/)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A cousin got Al Gore&#8217;s new  &#8220;Our choice&#8221; book for Xmas. The air is becoming clearer. Dr Linda Selvey, Recently appointed (Nov 2009) CEO of Greenpeace Asia Pacific is an Al Gore disciple. <a href="http://www.greenpeace.org/australia/resources/reports/general/new-ceo-dr-linda-selvey-bio" rel="nofollow">http://www.greenpeace.org/australia/resources/reports/general/new-ceo-dr-linda-selvey-bio</a></p>
<p>Gore&#8217;s researcher-written tome is long on spin and short on balance. The anti-denier words loom large. The list of consulted scientists goes for pages. By implication, the words are objective and reflect the scientific consensus. Convenient that there have been no new nuclear power plants for may years and the expertise to build them is limited. Convenient that nuclear happens to be a softly mentioned option. Convenient that economists think we need to charge for the perceived negative externalities of carbon. Convenient that any talk of negative externalities of nuclear are missing from the book. Convenient that Gore plays down the threat of nuclear weapon proliferation by countries with nuclear energy capacity. Curious that he talks of a well organised propaganda machine to discredit global warming by big oil.</p>
<p>So, in what appears on the surface a masterful execution corporate strategy, it looks like pro-nuclear interests have captured key members of the IPCC, climate science, and big science publishers as well as the environmental movement. A small blip in global temperature is spun as the end of civilization as we know it. We are destroying the earth for our children. Carbon is the enemy. We must reduce it by 40% urgently.  We must raise the cost of carbon. We must create an international anti-carbon fund. We must pledge billions of dollars to developing nations. We must invest in clean renewable energy sources. We must do more research.</p>
<p>But there is only one &#8220;clean&#8221; energy source that can deliver &#8220;clean&#8221; energy in large amounts soon &#8211; nuclear. (See Prof Barry Brooks on <a href="http://bravenewclimate.com/" rel="nofollow">http://bravenewclimate.com/</a> for example.)</p>
<p>So the environmental movement has been captured to push the world towards using a megabillion dollar international anti-carbon fund to pay for nuclear power stations in developing countries. Brilliant!</p>
<p>Wake up world, before we really ruin the earth with nuclear waste or armageddon. (Those who haven&#8217;t seen it need to see the movie &#8220;The Corporation&#8221;  <a href="http://www.thecorporation.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.thecorporation.com/</a>)</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Hogue</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/propaganda-warrior-exposed/#comment-21645</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Hogue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 20:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Along the lines of propaganda, FoxNews.com posted this today.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,581093,00.html?test=latestnews

Build-A-Bear is a very popular toy maker but now has branched off into AGW advocacy with a web site that ends up having Santa Clause tell children that Christmas may be cancelled this year because of global warming.

Of course they claim completely innocent intent.

Be sure to check out the embedded links.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Along the lines of propaganda, FoxNews.com posted this today.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,581093,00.html?test=latestnews" rel="nofollow">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,581093,00.html?test=latestnews</a></p>
<p>Build-A-Bear is a very popular toy maker but now has branched off into AGW advocacy with a web site that ends up having Santa Clause tell children that Christmas may be cancelled this year because of global warming.</p>
<p>Of course they claim completely innocent intent.</p>
<p>Be sure to check out the embedded links.</p>
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		<title>By: blouis79</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/propaganda-warrior-exposed/#comment-21145</link>
		<dc:creator>blouis79</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 10:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>A complicated system is interesting, but to difficult to analyse. The usual scientific approach is to distill the essential unbreakable physical laws in operation and see what they say. Gerlich and Tscheuschner appear to have had a fairly good look. Suggestions I have seen are that CO2 greenhouse violates the second law of thermodynamics - a rather serious failing.

FWIW, I have been reading Kiehl/Trenberth Global Energy Budget paper, on which is central to the IPCCs radiative equilibrium diagram. I can find nowhere that they contemplate the possibility of earth-generated thermal pollution described by Nordell.

Personally, I prefer the historical perspective that a complex system with negative feedbacks will always tend toward the mean in the long-term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A complicated system is interesting, but to difficult to analyse. The usual scientific approach is to distill the essential unbreakable physical laws in operation and see what they say. Gerlich and Tscheuschner appear to have had a fairly good look. Suggestions I have seen are that CO2 greenhouse violates the second law of thermodynamics &#8211; a rather serious failing.</p>
<p>FWIW, I have been reading Kiehl/Trenberth Global Energy Budget paper, on which is central to the IPCCs radiative equilibrium diagram. I can find nowhere that they contemplate the possibility of earth-generated thermal pollution described by Nordell.</p>
<p>Personally, I prefer the historical perspective that a complex system with negative feedbacks will always tend toward the mean in the long-term.</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Hogue</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/propaganda-warrior-exposed/#comment-20911</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Hogue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 22:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Surely some simple physics experiments can/have been done to test the radiative greenhouse effect.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

blouis79,

I think the Earth is doing that experiment every day with the rather spectacular result that the theory fails.  Is this not Joanne&#039;s entire thesis?

CO2 continues to increase yet the Earth does not warm as a result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Surely some simple physics experiments can/have been done to test the radiative greenhouse effect.</p></blockquote>
<p>blouis79,</p>
<p>I think the Earth is doing that experiment every day with the rather spectacular result that the theory fails.  Is this not Joanne&#8217;s entire thesis?</p>
<p>CO2 continues to increase yet the Earth does not warm as a result.</p>
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		<title>By: blouis79</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/propaganda-warrior-exposed/#comment-20906</link>
		<dc:creator>blouis79</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 21:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>On proof. A scientific theory is disproven by a single majorly inconsistent fact verifiable by anyone else who cares to look. It is far easier to disprove a theory than a report which is full of little errors. As far as I can see to date, the CO2 or radiative greenhouse theory is lined up for falsification. That brings down the radiative forcing theory and the wobbly formula with the unknown climate sensitivity parameter which is the entire basis of climate prediction. The scientific fraud of climategate may be enough to lower the warming projections. Falsifying the CO2 greenhouse can pervade the thought of any citizen who has an experience of greenhouse. Surely some simple physics experiments can/have been done to test the radiative greenhouse effect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On proof. A scientific theory is disproven by a single majorly inconsistent fact verifiable by anyone else who cares to look. It is far easier to disprove a theory than a report which is full of little errors. As far as I can see to date, the CO2 or radiative greenhouse theory is lined up for falsification. That brings down the radiative forcing theory and the wobbly formula with the unknown climate sensitivity parameter which is the entire basis of climate prediction. The scientific fraud of climategate may be enough to lower the warming projections. Falsifying the CO2 greenhouse can pervade the thought of any citizen who has an experience of greenhouse. Surely some simple physics experiments can/have been done to test the radiative greenhouse effect.</p>
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