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	<title>Comments on: Climate money: Bigger money moves in</title>
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	<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/08/climate-money-bigger-money-moves-in/</link>
	<description>Tackling tribal groupthink</description>
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		<title>By: Have people now realised the scam of Global Warming? The question on anything must be,&#8221;Who benefits?&#8221; When we find the true answer to this question we can answer any question &#124; Sovereign Independent</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/08/climate-money-bigger-money-moves-in/#comment-604967</link>
		<dc:creator>Have people now realised the scam of Global Warming? The question on anything must be,&#8221;Who benefits?&#8221; When we find the true answer to this question we can answer any question &#124; Sovereign Independent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Oct 2011 23:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Morgan Stanley, Fortis Bank Nederland, Bank of America Merrill Lynch, Westpac, and many others… [more info] Carbon Trading: $144b in 2010 Plus: Climate change exchanges, auditors, insurers, reinsurers… [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Morgan Stanley, Fortis Bank Nederland, Bank of America Merrill Lynch, Westpac, and many others… [more info] Carbon Trading: $144b in 2010 Plus: Climate change exchanges, auditors, insurers, reinsurers… [...]</p>
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		<title>By: bretto55</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/08/climate-money-bigger-money-moves-in/#comment-475520</link>
		<dc:creator>bretto55</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2011 12:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannenova.com.au/?p=3309#comment-475520</guid>
		<description>[snip]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[snip]</p>
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		<title>By: The “ten second” guide to the world of climate skeptics : Infowars Ireland</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/08/climate-money-bigger-money-moves-in/#comment-230967</link>
		<dc:creator>The “ten second” guide to the world of climate skeptics : Infowars Ireland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Mar 2011 04:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannenova.com.au/?p=3309#comment-230967</guid>
		<description>[...] Lastly, Big Bankers want us to trade carbon. Think about that. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Lastly, Big Bankers want us to trade carbon. Think about that. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jay</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/08/climate-money-bigger-money-moves-in/#comment-15358</link>
		<dc:creator>jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 06:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannenova.com.au/?p=3309#comment-15358</guid>
		<description>Hello, Jonova

Thanks for this article. I am making a video clip on the upcoming COP15 conference. would it be possible for me to use the image at the top of this great article please? It expresses very well the carbon-trading approach to the issue of climate change!

thx
Jay</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello, Jonova</p>
<p>Thanks for this article. I am making a video clip on the upcoming COP15 conference. would it be possible for me to use the image at the top of this great article please? It expresses very well the carbon-trading approach to the issue of climate change!</p>
<p>thx<br />
Jay</p>
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		<title>By: Neal</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/08/climate-money-bigger-money-moves-in/#comment-12950</link>
		<dc:creator>Neal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 03:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannenova.com.au/?p=3309#comment-12950</guid>
		<description>When I look at all the money tossed into the &quot;carbon pool&quot; I have to ask myself, &quot;Why in the heck did they not just buy everyone a windmill for the yard and solar panels for their roofs?&quot;

And if you think South Wales is asking questions I still have a few for Florida Power and Light (FPL).  Primarily, &quot;Why the heck am I being charged a &quot;lost revenue&quot; charge on my electric bill?&quot;

I mean, heck, a couple of hurricanes and they (FPL) can&#039;t deliver electricity to my house and I have to pay for the electricity that was never produced or used.

Oh wait that kinda sounds familiar...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I look at all the money tossed into the &#8220;carbon pool&#8221; I have to ask myself, &#8220;Why in the heck did they not just buy everyone a windmill for the yard and solar panels for their roofs?&#8221;</p>
<p>And if you think South Wales is asking questions I still have a few for Florida Power and Light (FPL).  Primarily, &#8220;Why the heck am I being charged a &#8220;lost revenue&#8221; charge on my electric bill?&#8221;</p>
<p>I mean, heck, a couple of hurricanes and they (FPL) can&#8217;t deliver electricity to my house and I have to pay for the electricity that was never produced or used.</p>
<p>Oh wait that kinda sounds familiar&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tel</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/08/climate-money-bigger-money-moves-in/#comment-11637</link>
		<dc:creator>Tel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 10:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannenova.com.au/?p=3309#comment-11637</guid>
		<description>On the subject of money and senators... the New South Wales government seems determined to lose the next election in spectacular style. Electricity prices have just been hiked by around 40% and there seems to be very little mainstream news about it (hmmm). Off peak hot-water prices went up (from around 5c / kWhr to 7c / kWhr) and the normal peak rate went up from approx 14c / kWhr up to a bit over &lt;b&gt;19c / kWhr&lt;/b&gt; (note that residential electricity runs on a quota system so for heavy users the rate goes from approx 17c up to &lt;b&gt;21c&lt;/b&gt; which is only a 24% hike... this hits households, families and small business much worse than the heavy users).

Admittedly, the recent stimulus spurge was inevitably going to cause inflation and part of this is no doubt attributable to inflation. However the retail and wholesale markets are split in New South Wales so &lt;b&gt;electricity production&lt;/b&gt; is delivering wholesale electricity into the grid at around &lt;b&gt;3c / kWhr&lt;/b&gt;. This winter was a bit milder than expected (mostly due to almost constant rain all winter filling the night sky with heavy cloud) so the normally high winter demand didn&#039;t happen -- thus wholesale rates actually went down this year.

http://www.aemo.com.au/data/avg_price/averageprice_main.shtml

It costs this much to produce the electricity:

&#124;--&#124;

Sells to householders for this much:

&#124;--------------------&#124;

The difference being (supposedly) the cost of some copper wires and metering. Why are these wires and meters more expensive than last year? Hard to explain really.

I&#039;d very much appreciate some public attention paid to where the money actually goes, if anyone knows how to track that down.

As background to Yankee readers: the &quot;Premier&quot; is roughly our equivalent to a state governor and Morris Iemma was our premier who handed some millions of dollars to the Catholic Church as a thankyou for the pope making a visit, then tried his best to run the state bankrupt but used the money supply shortage as a grandstanding manoeuvre in an attempt to sell off the electricity supply. The unions (who form the basis of Iemma&#039;s own party) didn&#039;t like the idea of selling off the electricity, the established party decision making process concluded that selling off the electricity should not happen, but Iemma defied both the unions and his own team in a weird act of public political suicide resulting in both the failure to push through the sale and the Iemma&#039;s own sacking.

Now the replacement Premier is trying to sell off the state lotteries (one of the few parts of the government fully guaranteed to make a consistent profit forever), and quietly pumping up the retail price of that very electricity distribution system that remained in government hands. Presumably it can only be seen as a punishment for the people and industries of this state in revenge for the failure to privatise.

As further background, New South Wales has been consistently amongst the lowest performing states in Australia, regularly beaten by our east-coast neighbours Queensland and Victoria in growth, employment, manufacturing, etc. 

The carbon tax and ETS legislation at the federal level actually failed to get through, but we are being made to pay extra anyhow -- this seems to be how Democracy works these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the subject of money and senators&#8230; the New South Wales government seems determined to lose the next election in spectacular style. Electricity prices have just been hiked by around 40% and there seems to be very little mainstream news about it (hmmm). Off peak hot-water prices went up (from around 5c / kWhr to 7c / kWhr) and the normal peak rate went up from approx 14c / kWhr up to a bit over <b>19c / kWhr</b> (note that residential electricity runs on a quota system so for heavy users the rate goes from approx 17c up to <b>21c</b> which is only a 24% hike&#8230; this hits households, families and small business much worse than the heavy users).</p>
<p>Admittedly, the recent stimulus spurge was inevitably going to cause inflation and part of this is no doubt attributable to inflation. However the retail and wholesale markets are split in New South Wales so <b>electricity production</b> is delivering wholesale electricity into the grid at around <b>3c / kWhr</b>. This winter was a bit milder than expected (mostly due to almost constant rain all winter filling the night sky with heavy cloud) so the normally high winter demand didn&#8217;t happen &#8212; thus wholesale rates actually went down this year.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.aemo.com.au/data/avg_price/averageprice_main.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.aemo.com.au/data/avg_price/averageprice_main.shtml</a></p>
<p>It costs this much to produce the electricity:</p>
<p>|&#8211;|</p>
<p>Sells to householders for this much:</p>
<p>|&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;|</p>
<p>The difference being (supposedly) the cost of some copper wires and metering. Why are these wires and meters more expensive than last year? Hard to explain really.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d very much appreciate some public attention paid to where the money actually goes, if anyone knows how to track that down.</p>
<p>As background to Yankee readers: the &#8220;Premier&#8221; is roughly our equivalent to a state governor and Morris Iemma was our premier who handed some millions of dollars to the Catholic Church as a thankyou for the pope making a visit, then tried his best to run the state bankrupt but used the money supply shortage as a grandstanding manoeuvre in an attempt to sell off the electricity supply. The unions (who form the basis of Iemma&#8217;s own party) didn&#8217;t like the idea of selling off the electricity, the established party decision making process concluded that selling off the electricity should not happen, but Iemma defied both the unions and his own team in a weird act of public political suicide resulting in both the failure to push through the sale and the Iemma&#8217;s own sacking.</p>
<p>Now the replacement Premier is trying to sell off the state lotteries (one of the few parts of the government fully guaranteed to make a consistent profit forever), and quietly pumping up the retail price of that very electricity distribution system that remained in government hands. Presumably it can only be seen as a punishment for the people and industries of this state in revenge for the failure to privatise.</p>
<p>As further background, New South Wales has been consistently amongst the lowest performing states in Australia, regularly beaten by our east-coast neighbours Queensland and Victoria in growth, employment, manufacturing, etc. </p>
<p>The carbon tax and ETS legislation at the federal level actually failed to get through, but we are being made to pay extra anyhow &#8212; this seems to be how Democracy works these days.</p>
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		<title>By: Denny</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/08/climate-money-bigger-money-moves-in/#comment-11341</link>
		<dc:creator>Denny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannenova.com.au/?p=3309#comment-11341</guid>
		<description>Senator Bernardi, my apologies,I&#039;m already back stroking from above comments. Is it amazing Cultural differences in such a small world! I&#039;m impressed with your comment at your Web Site. I agree with you and will try my best in the future to keep this in proper perspective. I&#039;m VERY proud of you for knocking down Austrialia&#039;s Cap &amp; Trade Bill. Wish you could come to America and do the same here and slap a few heads around...or maybe take a few of OUR Liberals back with you.Woa, just kidding,I wouldn&#039;t wish that on my 2 ex-wives!

Tel,thank you very much! I love your style of comments! Keep it up and thanks for not coming down hard on me! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Senator Bernardi, my apologies,I&#8217;m already back stroking from above comments. Is it amazing Cultural differences in such a small world! I&#8217;m impressed with your comment at your Web Site. I agree with you and will try my best in the future to keep this in proper perspective. I&#8217;m VERY proud of you for knocking down Austrialia&#8217;s Cap &amp; Trade Bill. Wish you could come to America and do the same here and slap a few heads around&#8230;or maybe take a few of OUR Liberals back with you.Woa, just kidding,I wouldn&#8217;t wish that on my 2 ex-wives!</p>
<p>Tel,thank you very much! I love your style of comments! Keep it up and thanks for not coming down hard on me! <img src='http://joannenova.com.au/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Cory Bernardi</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/08/climate-money-bigger-money-moves-in/#comment-11321</link>
		<dc:creator>Cory Bernardi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 10:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannenova.com.au/?p=3309#comment-11321</guid>
		<description>Denny, you know how to hurt a guy - calling me a Liberal in the US sense of the word! ;-)

 I am a conservative and AGW sceptic and proud of it. Have a look at some of my other musings at www.corybernardi.com . You might like what you read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Denny, you know how to hurt a guy &#8211; calling me a Liberal in the US sense of the word! <img src='http://joannenova.com.au/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p> I am a conservative and AGW sceptic and proud of it. Have a look at some of my other musings at <a href="http://www.corybernardi.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.corybernardi.com</a> . You might like what you read.</p>
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		<title>By: Tel</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/08/climate-money-bigger-money-moves-in/#comment-11318</link>
		<dc:creator>Tel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 09:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
I would think that the term &quot;Liberal&quot; would be defined the same way all over this World... guessed wrong.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

May I suggest: http://www.liberalhistory.org.uk/

The meaning of &quot;Liberal&quot; has drifted greatly over time, and drifted in different directions depending on country... which just shows that politics has a great many more dimensions than the meaningless left/right division that is constantly pushed at us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
I would think that the term &#8220;Liberal&#8221; would be defined the same way all over this World&#8230; guessed wrong.
</p></blockquote>
<p>May I suggest: <a href="http://www.liberalhistory.org.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://www.liberalhistory.org.uk/</a></p>
<p>The meaning of &#8220;Liberal&#8221; has drifted greatly over time, and drifted in different directions depending on country&#8230; which just shows that politics has a great many more dimensions than the meaningless left/right division that is constantly pushed at us.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian G Valentine</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2009/08/climate-money-bigger-money-moves-in/#comment-11308</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian G Valentine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 05:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>got it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>got it</p>
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